Buster Douglas's second best performance ?

[Unforgiven]

I like this dismantling of Mike Williams, who was at the time a very hot up-and-comer and had taken Tim Witherspoon's best shots and taken him to a split decision.
I remember watching this on the night of the Spinks-Tyson. Douglas's use of the jab is awesome, and it's an all-round solid professional performance. Douglas beating Williams in this manner was something of a minor upset.

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[lefthook31]

I know you think Douglas is a bit overated but he had some good skills from boxing his whole life and being taught by his dad. Watch how he uses feints and his jab and puts punches together. Good stuff from a heavyweight that you dont see too often.
He looked a bit slow and chubby in that fight, but still has good overall skills.
Even seeing Douglas against Quinne Navarre post coma was very impressive. Navarre wasnt anything special but Douglas boxed very well and stopped him.

[mr. magoo]

Douglas showed some real class and good old school boxing in this one. Good footwork, great jabbing and nice use of the uppercut.. Both men looked reasonably fit as well, though you could definately see the vast difference in experience.. I always wondered why Mike Williams didn't materialize into something more, but then when I saw him get floored by a Douglas jab in round 4, my question was soon answered... Its amazing that the man was able to go 10 rounds with Tim Witherspoon, but I have no clue as to how Tim showed up for that fight.

On a sidenote, I always thought that it was kinda shitty that HBO didn't show more of these undercards on their shows. I know that Tyson Spinks was paper view, but even on some of the non-paperview broadcastings, you rarely ever saw the other matches with the contenders and prospects..

Nice footage.. Thanks a lot Unforgiven.

[Unforgiven]

Douglas showed some real class and good old school boxing in this one. Good footwork, great jabbing and nice use of the uppercut.. Both men looked reasonably fit as well, though you could definately see the vast difference in experience.. I always wondered why Mike Williams didn't materialize into something more, but then when I saw him get floored by a Douglas jab in round 4, my question was soon answered... Its amazing that the man was able to go 10 rounds with Tim Witherspoon, but I have no clue as to how Tim showed up for that fight.

I think Williams had an okay chin but he just couldn't take Douglas's jab.
I haven't seen Witherspoon-Williams but I know Witherspoon had KO'd tough journeyman Mark Wills in 1 just two month earlier, and weighed in at 217 (one report described him as "svelte", this was 'spoon fresh on the comeback trail).
Douglas was just throwing the jab with bad intent this fight, and Williams was taking in flush and square on, failed to adjust and it took its toll.

After this fight Williams disappeared, and was soon just another has-been.


On a sidenote, I always thought that it was kinda shitty that HBO didn't show more of these undercards on their shows. I know that Tyson Spinks was paper view, but even on some of the non-paperview broadcastings, you rarely ever saw the other matches with the contenders and prospects..

I agree. If the cameras are there the fights should be televised. Even shown at a later date (eg. the following week) would make sense.


Nice footage.. Thanks a lot Unforgiven.

:good

[Unforgiven]

I know you think Douglas is a bit overated but he had some good skills from boxing his whole life and being taught by his dad. Watch how he uses feints and his jab and puts punches together. Good stuff from a heavyweight that you dont see too often.
He looked a bit slow and chubby in that fight, but still has good overall skills.
Even seeing Douglas against Quinne Navarre post coma was very impressive. Navarre wasnt anything special but Douglas boxed very well and stopped him.

Douglas had some pretty good all-round skills, as did many of the heavyweights of the 80s. Many of them lacked in other areas though (training discipline, focus, dedication).

Douglas has a bad habit of leading with a long-range right uppercut from way outside, something Evander Holyfield exploited and executed the counter to perfection.

[mr. magoo]

After this fight Williams disappeared, and was soon just another has-been.



It does seem shameful that a talented and athletically fit young prospect like Willims just stopped fighting after the Douglas fight, and didn't resurface until 3 years later, as just a build-up opponent for other fighters.... Of course, there are countless numbers of reasons why that may have happened, ie. Lack of desire, injury, health issues, legal trouble, family problems, or maybe he found a decent job opportunity or something.... In either case, I think he had the potential to become at least a respectable fringe contender or better, had he stayed active and been managed properly.

[joe33]

Williams played union cane in rocky 5

[Unforgiven]

It does seem shameful that a talented and athletically fit young prospect like Willims just stopped fighting after the Douglas fight, and didn't resurface until 3 years later, as just a build-up opponent for other fighters.... Of course, there are countless numbers of reasons why that may have happened, ie. Lack of desire, injury, health issues, legal trouble, family problems, or maybe he found a decent job opportunity or something.... In either case, I think he had the potential to become at least a respectable fringe contender or better, had he stayed active and been managed properly.

Yeah, all I can say is : for anyone remotely normal professional boxing is an incredibly tough way to earn a living.
I guess you'd have to really want it want it to take a defeat like that and put it behind you and move onward and upward. We tend to concentrate a lot on the small proportion of fighters who do have that mindset and ability. I dont believe in quitting a dream, but for many the desire and the belief just isn't there. When all is said and done, Mike Williams achieved more in the game - amateur and pro - than most others who try it ever did.

[Rubber Warrior]

Fluidity and timing were a big part of a ready, focused and mentally fit Douglas. At his best he was an extraordinary heavyweight, or a potentially extraordinary heavyweight, as we saw against Tyson, and to a lesser degree, a few others. Some will point to the so-so nature of his chin, but given that fact, it underlines all the more how good he really as an offensive force when he was "right" both spiritually and mentally, for a given assignment.

[lefthook31]

Douglas had some pretty good all-round skills, as did many of the heavyweights of the 80s. Many of them lacked in other areas though (training discipline, focus, dedication).

Douglas has a bad habit of leading with a long-range right uppercut from way outside, something Evander Holyfield exploited and executed the counter to perfection.
Yes he did, and credit to Holyfield for timing that shot, and picking it up. If you watch that fight, Holy used his feint to get Douglas to throw it, and then unloaded with that counter. Douglas himself tried to use the uppercut more of a timing shot as his opponent came forward but as you said throwing an uppercut from the outside is a big no no.

[lefthook31]

Fluidity and timing were a big part of a ready, focused and mentally fit Douglas. At his best he was an extraordinary heavyweight, or a potentially extraordinary heavyweight, as we saw against Tyson, and to a lesser degree, a few others. Some will point to the so-so nature of his chin, but given that fact, it underlines all the more how good he really as an offensive force when he was "right" both spiritually and mentally, for a given assignment.
I never really saw Douglas get knocked out besides the Monaco fight where he was hit after the bell. He could have continued against Tucker and he could have gotten up and continued against Holyfield. As Ive said, he had that same look on his face when Tyson dropped him, but he somehow convinced himself to get up and keep fighting which Im sure was attributed to his life events at the time.

[Russell]

Gah, beaten to the rare knocked down by a jab moment from this fight.

Other times I remember this happening.

Holmes against Ocassio.

I've seen Courage Tshabalala do it.

Brown against Norris. :lol:

[jont]

How did Douglas do against McCall...I remember hearing the story of Oliver telling Tyson to be careful of Douglas after he lost a decision to Buster and that Mike blew off his comments and said that Oliver fucked around and lost to Douglas....

[choklab]

It does seem shameful that a talented and athletically fit young prospect like Willims just stopped fighting after the Douglas fight, and didn't resurface until 3 years later, as just a build-up opponent for other fighters.... Of course, there are countless numbers of reasons why that may have happened, ie. Lack of desire, injury, health issues, legal trouble, family problems, or maybe he found a decent job opportunity or something.... In either case, I think he had the potential to become at least a respectable fringe contender or better, had he stayed active and been managed properly.


wiliams was much beter than was made to look. However in boxing its all about geting the right opponent at the right stages of development. Im thinking wiliams people took a calculated risk on douglas and since nobody could forecast what douglas was going to do in the future on paper it looked like they were right to. After all buster had had his chance at the title and though hed beaten 3 trial horses since was surly on the way down in the greater scheme of things?
douglas may not have looked like superman on the way up but he was matched prety hard early beating 5 unbeaten prospects in his first 2 years in the pros. He got good competative rounds in against tex cobb, page, unbeaten ferguson (who edged him on pts) before slipping up against tucker. williams people gambled on busters career taking a turn for the worse at that time but got it wrong.
Looking at the fight I think it was a bad beating, no wonder wiliams was out for 3 years after that. He took a lot of shots off a big guy.

and would beat mccall and berbick before geting Tyson.

[Jorodz]

surprised no shout outs to the first 9 or so rounds against tucker. wasn't his best but he did quite well until the end

[TheGreatA]

For some reason McCall was always very impressed by Douglas and often called him the hardest puncher he ever fought.

[mr. magoo]

For some reason McCall was always very impressed by Douglas and often called him the hardest puncher he ever fought.


I don't think I believe that. Not coming from the man who took 12 rounds of punches from Frank Bruno, withstood the best of Seldon, took shots from a prime Lewis, and was a sparring partner for Tyson... There must have been something behind that statement.. Maybe he was just being kind or paying the guy respect.. Some of these " this guy hit me harder than that guy" statements are questionable at times.

[TheGreatA]

I don't think I believe that. Not coming from the man who took 12 rounds of punches from Frank Bruno, withstood the best of Seldon, took shots from a prime Lewis, and was a sparring partner for Tyson... There must have been something behind that statement.. Maybe he was just being kind or paying the guy respect.. Some of these " this guy hit me harder than that guy" statements are questionable at times.

I don't think Douglas was the hardest hitter McCall fought but McCall himself evidently does, occasionally since he tends to name a different fighter every time he's asked the question. Buster did have a very strong jab and a brutal uppercut.

ESB: Which of the many great opponents you faced had the greatest punch?

Oliver McCall: In my past? I think one guy had a pretty good punch on him, and that was Buster Douglas. Thankfully, I didn’t get hit with a lot of really big shots in that fight, but from what I recall, he had nice power, and leverage on them. So I would say Buster Douglas.

Boxinginsider.com: You are renowned for being able to take a big punch. Who was the hardest puncher you faced?
Oliver McCall: “Bert Cooper. Left hook. That was the hardest punch that I ever felt and that I had to overcome. It felt like a truck had hit me. I never got hit by a truck but it felt like if a truck would have hit me.”
Boxinginsider.com: Who else was up there? Lennox?
Oliver McCall: “No, Lennox wasn’t one of the hardest punchers that I – Buster Douglas hit me harder than Lennox did. Right hand.”


CW: What was the toughest fight of your career so far?

OM: Let me see…the toughest fight of my career would probably have to be the Buster Douglas fight I would say. The reason that was a tough fight is because at the time I was sparring Mike Tyson for Buster Douglas, and Buster Douglas is 6’4’’ and very strong. I think I only had like 15 professional fights. He was ranked # 2 in the world. We took the fight on. We lost the fight even though I thought that I won that fight. It was a close fight and what not. It was the toughest fight I think of the fights I’ve had throughout my career.

[choklab]

sometimes you walk onto a shot from a lighter puncher and it hurts more than getting the tail end of a punch from a guy with more of a reputation for punching harder. Maybe douglas caught mccall sweeter than lewis did? they were both big guys its not like either was feather fisted is it?
mr magoo is quite right boxers do give credit when it best suits them, I bet lenox lewis would say rahman hit him harder than mccall did since he got to knock rahman flat in the rematch.

[punchy]

This thread puts to rest that Douglas had only one good fight, he was a very good very skilled fighter who punched deceptively hard, he was inconsistant though.

[Russell]

1) McCall was green against Douglas and didn't face the massive punchers he did until far later in his career where he was more then likely more ready and experienced.

2) Said Cooper hit him harder regardless.

[mr. magoo]

This thread puts to rest that Douglas had only one good fight.


Agreed,

he actually fought several men who ranged from decent to very good, and did fairly well against most of them. There is a good reason in my opinion why he was a rated fighter for most of the 5 years between 1985-1990.

[Unforgiven]

When did Oliver McCall fight Bert Cooper ?

As for the Douglas-McCall being close, from what I've seen it wasn't. Douglas won it clearly.

[lefthook31]

When did Oliver McCall fight Bert Cooper ?

As for the Douglas-McCall being close, from what I've seen it wasn't. Douglas won it clearly.
Sparring probably.

[Unforgiven]

Sparring probably.

Yeah.
I wasn't sure. I know Bert Cooper fought a heck of a lot of name fighters so I wasn't sure, but I couldn't find McCall on his record.

:good