Hypnotization In Boxing

[Mandanda]

Lads this one's been on my mind for a long while. Tonight's discussion on McClellan-Benn has sparked me to make this thread.

The Use of Hypnotization In Boxing.
Benn and Collins famously used it as well as other fighter's to prepare for big fights.

Fighter's say it gives them that extra edge and helps them perform better then normal.

Does it push fighter's to perform beyond the pain fresh hold??. Do you feel it could end in potential disaster. Does it give a unfair advantage if used?? and lastly...Do you think it should be allowed????

I like to know your thoughts on it??

Here's Chris Eubank's thoughts :lol:
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[johna_83]

Not really a big deal for me. Generally boxers of a decent standard are in peak physical condition and its their mental strength that makes the difference. Some fighters are born mentally strong, some may feel they need a helping hand to get them in the right frame of mind.

For me its just one of many ways to help a fighter get in the right frame of mind. Like visualisation, relaxation techniques, mind games with their opponent.

Didn't Frankie Gavin's opponent the other weekend go to Uri Geller?! I won't have a bad word said about Uri mind, he single handedly broke our London hoodoo at Arsenal when we hadn't won in the capital since about 1842!

[Mandanda]

Not really a big deal for me. Generally boxers of a decent standard are in peak physical condition and its their mental strength that makes the difference. Some fighters are born mentally strong, some may feel they need a helping hand to get them in the right frame of mind.

For me its just one of many ways to help a fighter get in the right frame of mind. Like visualisation, relaxation techniques, mind games with their opponent.

Didn't Frankie Gavin's opponent the other weekend go to Uri Geller?! I won't have a bad word said about Uri mind, he single handedly broke our London hoodoo at Arsenal when we hadn't won in the capital since about 1842!
Good post...i see what people can say in defense of it and what people feel is wrong with it...i'm half and half...maybe proof's in pudding. Just something i've wondered about for while. Eubank was seriously bothered by it :lol:

[icemax]

Nigel Benn could have gotten himself killed against McClellan, what he did with Paul McKenna went beyond any simple act of hypnotism. Listening to Benn after the fight talking as though there were two Nigels in the ring that night, the imaginary Nigel who got hurt and the real Nigel who didn't and who was in control, was frankly scary.

[Mandanda]

Nigel Benn could have gotten himself killed against McClellan, what he did with Paul McKenna went beyond any simple act of hypnotism. Listening to Benn after the fight talking as though there were two Nigels in the ring that night, the imaginary Nigel who got hurt and the real Nigel who didn't and who was in control, was frankly scary.
This is why i've made the thread when i heard that interview his jaw looked fucked and he just cam through a war but not like most fighter's he was lively and still wanting a war. Normally fighter's in a fight like that are spent by time they get to interviewer.

[johna_83]

I don't think i've actually seen the interview, i'll have to have a look at it.

Its a very good thread because it is quite a controversial area, and i can sort of see it from both points of view. To me tho its just a way for a fighter to train their mind, much like they train their body in camp leading up to a fight.

As i said earlier, for some fighters their physical peak and knowing that they've pushed themselves to the limit and done all they possibly can physically in camp is enough for them mentally. They know they couldn't have done anymore so mentally they're very strong going into the fight. Others who maybe aren't so naturally strong mentally feel that just physical shape isn't enough and feel that they need a little more focus and help for their state of mind.

Very interesting topic tho, looking forward to hearing the general consensus on this one. Got a feeling it might divide opinions....

[Mandanda]

I don't think i've actually seen the interview, i'll have to have a look at it.

Its a very good thread because it is quite a controversial area, and i can sort of see it from both points of view. To me tho its just a way for a fighter to train their mind, much like they train their body in camp leading up to a fight.

As i said earlier, for some fighters their physical peak and knowing that they've pushed themselves to the limit and done all they possibly can physically in camp is enough for them mentally. They know they couldn't have done anymore so mentally they're very strong going into the fight. Others who maybe aren't so naturally strong mentally feel that just physical shape isn't enough and feel that they need a little more focus and help for their state of mind.

Very interesting topic tho, looking forward to hearing the general consensus on this one. Got a feeling it might divide opinions....

I definatley see what your saying and see you put forward a good case. Icemax does have a point about Benn i must say...wish some more people would add there views as you said interesting topic.

Thanks for your contributions so far lads.

[loughlan]

If hypnotizaton effects your pain barrier surely it should be classed as an unfair advantage to hold over your opponent.Your mind is more powerful than any drug so I don't think it should be allowed.

[Mandanda]

If hypnotizaton effects your pain barrier surely it should be classed as an unfair advantage to hold over your opponent.Your mind is more powerful than any drug so I don't think it should be allowed.
Very Very good point. Forcing yourself through things you would never do normally is extremely dangerous and wrong imo.

[NO MAS]

Its all about mindset, you don't mind and it don't matter...:yep

Who wants it the most, that's where it counts...:good

[Mandanda]

Looks like a landslide vote in terms of it being no big deal. Thanks everyone that posted there thoughts much appreciated.

[Beeston Brawler]

I strongly believe that mental toughness and the ability to overcome adversity - either during a contest or after losing one.... is a very important part of an elite sportsman/woman. I'd go a step further and say it almost defines their career.

Examples.....

Kelly Holmes.

Extremely talented athlete, however one that suffered a shocking string of injuries at the wrong time. A lesser character would have chucked it in, but she made every effort to get herself as fit as she possibly could be, and ended up doing what no other British athlete has ever done - the 800/1500m double..... whilst past her best at the age of 34.

Steve Redgrave

Overcome diabetes to win five Olympic golds in a row.

Tim Henman

Clearly a good (if one-dimensional) tennis player, but one that froze on the big occasion, for a variety of reasons, public expectation being one of them. On his big chance when all the higher ranked players had bombed out, he goes and loses to grandad.

The England football team

Nuff said!

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I don't see it as a big deal. 99% of athletes will do something that is legal if they believe it will help them. To many this sort of thing is a load of mumbo jumbo anyway, though I think there's a bit of something in it.

[NO MAS]

Who remembers Glen Hoddles faith healer...:think

When Ray Parlour went in she said to him what can I do for you and he replied "Can I have a short back and sides please...!"...:lol:

Glen Hoddle hit the roof...:happy :happy :happy

[Mandanda]

Who remembers Glen Hoddles faith healer...:think

When Ray Parlour went in she said to him what can I do for you and he replied "Can I have a short back and sides please...!"...:lol:

Glen Hoddle hit the roof...:happy :happy :happy
:rofl:rofl:rofl Ledge

[Beeston Brawler]

Yeah - Hoddle went way too far by having compulsory sessions.

She said she removed demons from Gazza..... funny how they all returned the moment Hoddle told him he wasn't going to the World Cup (IMO he was right to sack him) and have been there ever since.

If I was the manager of a group of players I'd certainly encourage having a padre around, someone for the players to speak to in private if they had any issues.

[johna_83]

Who remembers Glen Hoddles faith healer...:think

When Ray Parlour went in she said to him what can I do for you and he replied "Can I have a short back and sides please...!"...:lol:

Glen Hoddle hit the roof...:happy :happy :happy

:lol:

I remember Merson saying she'd helped him with his demons, and Anderton was a regular visitor. Didn't do anything for Robbie Fowler tho, he said he visited her house to see what all the fuss was about and ended up watching telly with her husband the whole time :lol:

[NO MAS]

:rofl:rofl:rofl Ledge

Ledge...I don't understand...:think

I think that it is important to have somebody that is independant and impartial to be there for the players, I am not convinced it has to be of a religious denomination of anykind...:huh

[Vantage_West]

no sex, watching only boxing, continous all month fitness, cut back on all comfort food, pictures of your opponant around the gym, roadworking......when you think of nothing but boxing,making weight and your opponant in a heavy training camp with 20 or so other sparring partners,trainers,pro/am boxers around you with a similar mentality, in a gym that is surrounded by pictures,posters and photo's of former greats and former elite fighters.

by the time you get into the ring you should have NO need for hypnotization becuase you are doing it everyday in the gym. haglers training regime i think was a good example of just going to a different place (mentaly).his quote "if you cut open my head all you will find is a boxing glove" or somthing like that means it all

also benn was clearly tired after the fight, unlike eubank who i think stopped an interview mid way becuase he was too hurt. he had a completly different mentality to nigel who wanted to show how man he was. his fight with sherry,and his war with wharton (a fight in which he was pissing blood for a long while) he had a very similar way of showing his ego.

he did pull off a marvelous upset which if not for what was to follow would be relished by brit fans.

[Vantage_West]

Ledge...I don't understand...:think

I think that it is important to have somebody that is independant and impartial to be there for the players, I am not convinced it has to be of a religious denomination of anykind...:huh
are you joking or you serious? ledge = legend

[Losfer_Words]

Mandanda = P4P ESB Brit Forum's Best Thread Starer:deal.

Nigel Benn could have gotten himself killed against McClellan, what he did with Paul McKenna went beyond any simple act of hypnotism. Listening to Benn after the fight talking as though there were two Nigels in the ring that night, the imaginary Nigel who got hurt and the real Nigel who didn't and who was in control, was frankly scary.

TBH, when I first voted I was thinking about hypnotization's effect from a technical standpoint. IMO, no matter how much somebody tells you you can do something and best someone else, it doesn't carry much weight in a sport such as boxing where you are trying to outsmart someone with a set of skills that you'll inevitably have to use and rely on in order to fight an effective fight. Put simply, you can't make someone Whitaker 'mark II' by telling them that they are, IMO- I could never see that happening!

That said, I have never seen that interview - I'll dig it out from my Benn career set later as this has genuinely interested me - and that is an extremely scary thing to hear coming from a boxer's mouth especially considering that it was said immediately after a fight. Someone could potentially be killed/kill someone else as a result of subconsciously thinking in a way somebody else has told them to. I've changed my mind, this method is potentially fatal.

[IntentionalButt]

There's no controversy, because hypnosis is not an unfair advantage. It is not an induced state. It's 100% a trick of the mind. You can not actually be hypnotized (there's no such thing), you can only convince yourself that you've been.

Seriously, guys? :lol:

Are we going to next have a thread on whether selling your soul to Satan to increase your chances of winning should be allowed?

[johna_83]

Interesting article with Steve Collins' 'hypnotherapist' post-Eubank fights

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[Mandanda]

Ledge...I don't understand...:think

I think that it is important to have somebody that is independant and impartial to be there for the players, I am not convinced it has to be of a religious denomination of anykind...:huh
It was funny what Parlour said :good

[riggers]

Nigel used McKenna to get over his divorce to help him focus on his training. He did not and it cannot be used to go crashing through the pain barrier etc etc. Collins against Eubank is different again, firstly i spoke to steve about it at length and it was BS he was not hypnotised, it was all about convincing Chris he would take unbelievable punishment and keep coming regardless of the consequences. I personally think that was low bearing in mind how affected Chris was by the Watson fight.

[Mandanda]

There's no controversy, because hypnosis is not an unfair advantage. It is not an induced state. It's 100% a trick of the mind. You can not actually be hypnotized (there's no such thing), you can only convince yourself that you've been.

Seriously, guys? :lol:

Are we going to next have a thread on whether selling your soul to Satan to increase your chances of winning should be allowed?
I just wanted to see people's thoughts on it that's all. A lot have gone for no big deal and some feel it is unfair. I'm 50/50 but there's been some great posts that have shown reasons for and against.

[Mandanda]

Mandanda = P4P ESB Brit Forum's Best Thread Starer:deal.



TBH, when I first voted I was thinking about hypnotization's effect from a technical standpoint. IMO, no matter how much somebody tells you you can do something and best someone else, it doesn't carry much weight in a sport such as boxing where you are trying to outsmart someone with a set of skills that you'll inevitably have to use and rely on in order to fight an effective fight. Put simply, you can't make someone Whitaker 'mark II' by telling them that they are, IMO- I could never see that happening!

That said, I have never seen that interview - I'll dig it out from my Benn career set later as this has genuinely interested me - and that is an extremely scary thing to hear coming from a boxer's mouth especially considering that it was said immediately after a fight. Someone could potentially be killed/kill someone else as a result of subconsciously thinking in a way somebody else has told them to. I've changed my mind, this method is potentially fatal.
Cheers Losfer glad yourself and lads appreciate the threads :happy

I'm like you at first i thought nothing of it but when you look into it...i kinda get worried about fighters pushing themselves to far but then there's been some educated posts on this thread that ease my mind...i'm still uncertain of what to think.

[IntentionalButt]

I just wanted to see people's thoughts on it that's all. A lot have gone for no big deal and some feel it is unfair. I'm 50/50 but there's been some great posts that have shown reasons for and against.

That's commendable that you want to foster a fair and balanced dialogue that tolerates all viewpoints, but to me it just seems about on par with respecting the viewpoint of Illuminati conspiracy theorists and poltergeists "witnesses".

I just can't understand an adult in this day and age thinking there's anything more to hypnosis than the subjects psyching themselves out (and therefore nothing they can't consciously snap themselves out of). To suggest that there is any external influence is a fairy tale that I thought had long since been put to bed.

[riggers]

There is a very pertinent saying 'whether you think you can or you can't, you are usually right'.

That explains hypnosis to me.

[Mandanda]

That's commendable that you want to foster a fair and balanced dialogue that tolerates all viewpoints, but to me it just seems about on par with respecting the viewpoint of Illuminati conspiracy theorists and poltergeists "witnesses".

I just can't understand an adult in this day and age thinking there's anything more to hypnosis than the subjects psyching themselves out (and therefore nothing they can't consciously snap themselves out of). To suggest that there is any external influence is a fairy tale that I thought had long since been put to bed.
Whatever you think doesn't really bother me tbh as it seems you just want to make fun of the thread. The guys who have posted have posted about the questions posed and gave me straight forward answers to questions. I've not said anything about Hypnosis other then pose the question and comment back to peoples posts. I started the thread as i saw Benn's interview which Icemax mentions and also Eubank's fear of fighting someone who was taking sessions. I understand and appreciate both answers for and against and thank everybody for there time in posting even if they think it's silly.