How to belittle a top fighter: "DIVISION SUX"

[Geraldo R.]

If you don't happen to like a champion or #1 fighter in a division, just say the division sucks. Following that logic, you have to then say "the division sucks, and in a poor division with no good fighters, no one can ever again prove themselves enough against the available opposition to be considered a good fighter, therefore the division perpetually sucks and should be abolished."

So, do you think "the division sucks" and wish cruiserweight was the heaviest weight division? Or do you just mindlessly parrot that the division sucks because you can't admit that the man dominating everyone just might be a good fighter? Then what happens if you hero beats him? The division must still suck because the top man was never shit to begin with, right?

You must have no confidence in your hero, because if you did have any, you would admit when the top fighter is a good fighter so that your man will receive his credit if he ever bests him.

[PH|LLA]

you don't say a division sucks to discredit a fighter, you say it sucks cause its fighers discredit it

[pipe wrenched]

Bunch of unhealthy, injury prone, over eating fux. What blows my mind too is in a division with no weight limit, why do HW's strip to thier bloomers to get on the scale?? Unless they come up there carrying rolls of quarters in thier pockets thier clothes can't weigh more than a pound or two. Cracks me up.

[box03]

The Heavywieght divsion sucks dick, its sad when Evander Holyfield at age 44 and 25% of his former self still attracts ppv and Wlad never made it on PPV, I guess people rather watch a has been than a never was.

[China_hand_Joe]

Super-middleweight has 'sucked' for 10 years now apparrently.

It is impossible Joe Calzaghe has just made the division look poor in comparison to him.

[PH|LLA]

Super-middleweight has 'sucked' for 10 years now apparrently.

It is impossible Joe Calzaghe has just made the division look poor in comparison to him.
supermiddle is loaded with talent everyone knows that. The division does not look poor in comparison to Calzaghe.

its middleweight that sucks

stopped acting like a kicked little puppy.

[skier47]

Wlad is such a dominant fighter that he makes the rest of the heavyweight
division look like it sucks. Taking out Austin with three left hooks
without having to even throw his vaunted right powerpunch. Making
Brewster look like an amatuer and quit like a bitch and KOing Brock
after a pretty good back and forth battle indicates a good, strong
heavyweight champion. NOT EVERY heavyweight era is going to have
an Ali or Joe Louis. Just appreciate Wlad for what he is; a talented,
fast, huge man with terrific offensive boxing skills and a slowly improving
defence.

[box03]

Wlad is such a dominant fighter that he makes the rest of the heavyweight
division look like it sucks. Taking out Austin with three left hooks
without having to even throw his vaunted right powerpunch. Making
Brewster look like an amatuer and quit like a bitch and KOing Brock
after a pretty good back and forth battle indicates a good, strong
heavyweight champion. NOT EVERY heavyweight era is going to have
an Ali or Joe Louis. Just appreciate Wlad for what he is; a talented,
fast, huge man with terrific offensive boxing skills and a slowly improving
defence. He is a stand in for a real champion, Wlad crumbles under pressure, a real champion stands in and fights. Its easy to look good when your facing lower oppostion, your right its not Wlads fault the Heavywieght division sucks, but its hard to guage how great a fighter is when he never faced a great himself.

[Butch Coolidge]

myopians

[kg0208]

you don't say a division sucks to discredit a fighter, you say it sucks cause its fighers discredit it

Signed

[cross_trainer]

If you don't happen to like a champion or #1 fighter in a division, just say the division sucks. Following that logic, you have to then say "the division sucks, and in a poor division with no good fighters, no one can ever again prove themselves enough against the available opposition to be considered a good fighter, therefore the division perpetually sucks and should be abolished."

So, do you think "the division sucks" and wish cruiserweight was the heaviest weight division? Or do you just mindlessly parrot that the division sucks because you can't admit that the man dominating everyone just might be a good fighter? Then what happens if you hero beats him? The division must still suck because the top man was never shit to begin with, right?

You must have no confidence in your hero, because if you did have any, you would admit when the top fighter is a good fighter so that your man will receive his credit if he ever bests him.

It isn't good looking at the moment compared to the 90's because you have more fat, out of condition, injured, undermotivated, and/or extremely old fighters, many more cancellations, fewer fights between top contenders. All of these things can be seen without recourse to dominoes (i.e. "he sucks, so all of his opposition must suck, so all of their opposition must suck", etc.).

Wlad is one of the few fighters who is fairly young, fights (mostly) good opponents, avoids injury, retains good stamina, shows crisp skills, and comes into fights in good shape. Ibragimov and Chagaev are two others who appear to be possibilities as well, so the division may be on the general road of improvement.

[skier47]

He is a stand in for a real champion, Wlad crumbles under pressure, a real champion stands in and fights. Its easy to look good when your facing lower oppostion, your right its not Wlads fault the Heavywieght division sucks, but its hard to guage how great a fighter is when he faced a great himself.

Well, how long is Wlad supposed to wait for some mythical "real champion" to suddenly emerge. Wlad's been in the top five now
for what- a decade or so. He's been WBO champ before his present
reign and has wiped the floor with every top American boxer for
years now. He even beat the top African fighter in Peter and
slaughtered off all European challengers years ago. Wlad's doing
what all dominant fighters do; taking on the best the division offers
him from slick boxers like Chris Byrd to powerpunchers like
Sam Peter and durable tough guys like Brewster. Give the guy
some credit. I guarantee we'll all miss him when he retires.
That lazerlike left jab, left hook combination followed by the
straight right hand down the middle is a sight to see.

[PH|LLA]

Well, how long is Wlad supposed to wait for some mythical "real champion" to suddenly emerge. Wlad's been in the top five now
for what- a decade or so. He's been WBO champ before his present
reign and has wiped the floor with every top American boxer for
years now. He even beat the top African fighter in Peter and
slaughtered off all European challengers years ago. Wlad's doing
what all dominant fighters do; taking on the best the division offers
him from slick boxers like Chris Byrd to powerpunchers like
Sam Peter and durable tough guys like Brewster. Give the guy
some credit. I guarantee we'll all miss him when he retires.
That lazerlike left jab, left hook combination followed by the
straight right hand down the middle is a sight to see.
Wlad gets a ton of credit. Everyone recognized he is the best in his division. If he wants to be seen as an atg then he should be much more active against this second class opposition

[box03]

Well, how long is Wlad supposed to wait for some mythical "real champion" to suddenly emerge. Wlad's been in the top five now
for what- a decade or so. He's been WBO champ before his present
reign and has wiped the floor with every top American boxer for
years now. He even beat the top African fighter in Peter and
slaughtered off all European challengers years ago. Wlad's doing
what all dominant fighters do; taking on the best the division offers
him from slick boxers like Chris Byrd to powerpunchers like
Sam Peter and durable tough guys like Brewster. Give the guy
some credit. I guarantee we'll all miss him when he retires.
That lazerlike left jab, left hook combination followed by the
straight right hand down the middle is a sight to see. Hes no Tyson, Lewis, Ali, or Holyfield. These guys made people stand up and watch boxing, Tyson was able to do it in a not so good era in the late 80s. Holyfield beat how many great fighters in his time, and so did Lewis. Ali is the best because he competed in one of best eras and in boxing, and came out the champ. Wlad is a good fighter I will give him that, beating nobodys wont make you a great and it shouldnt.

[skier47]

Well, we agree on one thing. Ali was/is the best. Wlad will never be
an Ali but if he unifies the division over the next couple of years and
beats Peter again he will be on the verge of greatness IMO.

[box03]

Well, we agree on one thing. Ali was/is the best. Wlad will never be
an Ali but if he unifies the division over the next couple of years and
beats Peter again he will be on the verge of greatness IMO. Maybe, but he still has more to prove and unification seems far away. I want to see be able to take a punch without falling or having a panic attack, I have a hard time liking someone who can dish it out but cant take it.

[C Money]

The problems are the matches NOT MADE and the Fights falling through. Blame MIS-MANAGEMENT of the sport for it.

Wlad has taken the lead slot by being willing to fight the top guys. What happens in the division the next two months should give him his next opponent.

If Peter wins tonight? He's the LOGICAL Choice since he's Ring Mag's #2 HW. Klitschko vs Peter 2 would be for the Ring Championship, therefore the REAL Championship.

If Peter loses? The winner of Ibragimov vs Holyfield winner, Chagaev, or the Winner of Brock vs Chambers (if Chambers wins) are possibilities:yep It pains me to say McCline would be included, and possibly next:-( I'm not too worried about that possibility though:nono

[box03]

The problems are the matches NOT MADE and the Fights falling through. Blame MIS-MANAGEMENT of the sport for it.

Wlad has taken the lead slot by being willing to fight the top guys. What happens in the division the next two months should give him his next opponent.

If Peter wins tonight? He's the LOGICAL Choice since he's Ring Mag's #2 HW. Klitschko vs Peter 2 would be for the Ring Championship, therefore the REAL Championship.

If Peter loses? The winner of Ibragimov vs Holyfield winner, Chagaev, or the Winner of Brock vs Chambers (if Chambers wins) are possibilities:yep It pains me to say McCline would be included, and possibly next:-( I'm not too worried about that possibility though:nono You and me both, Even if Mccline somehow wins tonite I have a strange feeling it will be ruled a "no contest", Don King will do whatever he can to keep Peter in the top spot.

[dragosuhail]

:lol: :lol: i love the hate.

wladimir sucks because he doesn't do PPV? wow.

you know he is the oscar de la hoya of europe? he doesn't NEED to be on PPV to make a shit load of money.

also it is admirable that he isn't trying to squeeze even more money out of the fans by demanding PPV everytime he fights.

there have been some ATROCIOUS PPV cards, so somehow i get the feeling wladimir would do rather well in PPV especially in a unifier even if they are both not american.

damn that cracks me up. wlad is crap cause he doesn't do PPV. holy shit there are some dumb monkeys on this board

[Geraldo R.]

Wlad is a good fighter I will give him that, beating nobodys wont make you a great and it shouldnt.

And what 'somebody' could possibly make him a great? That's the point, you can only judge a fighter's worth relative to the rest of the division, and this makes Wlad the 'best' heavyweight at the moment. Great is a sentimental proclamation that ignores the fact that fighters can only be judged relative to their oppoisition. You can't objectively say a current fighter is a 'great' fighter, only that they're the 'best' based on their division. Here we clearly have that.

There are no numbers that can be assigned to a fighter to show a degree of goodness/greatness as it pertains to the history of the division or sport. Wlad isn't a 742 and Loius a 975. They're absolutely impossible to compare unless we have a time machine, but I know how quaint and sentimental boxing fans can be...

The heavyweight division as a whole is bigger and stronger, and is continuing to become moreso. More people will lose as a result compared to the division's past twenty years or so, and fighters won't stay undefeated as long as welterweights seem to. It's a display of physical strength scaling disproportionately higher than the limitations of human endurance and toughness. It's inevitable and not a display of overall weakness.

[box03]

:lol: :lol: i love the hate.

wladimir sucks because he doesn't do PPV? wow.

you know he is the oscar de la hoya of europe? he doesn't NEED to be on PPV to make a shit load of money.

also it is admirable that he isn't trying to squeeze even more money out of the fans by demanding PPV everytime he fights.

there have been some ATROCIOUS PPV cards, so somehow i get the feeling wladimir would do rather well in PPV especially in a unifier even if they are both not american.

damn that cracks me up. wlad is crap cause he doesn't do PPV. holy shit there are some dumb monkeys on this board It proves hes not as popular as other fighters, if he was that good people would watch. His brother was on PPV for the Danny Williams fight in 04. PPV is a great gauge to his how popular fighter is and who is more exciting to watch.

[Geraldo R.]

Umm, PPVs are mostly an American thing. Boxing is big enough in Europe that Wlad doesn't need PPV.

[box03]

Umm, PPVs are mostly an American thing. Boxing is big enough in Europe that Wlad doesn't need PPV. Doesnt Europe have PPV too?

[sean]

yes we have ppv.
but wlad fights on german station rtl which is free to air.

t

[box03]

yes we have ppv.
but wlad fights on german station rtl which is free to air.

t I see, I thought you guys had PPV.

[Geraldo R.]

I said 'mostly' an American thing.

[PH|LLA]

I see, I thought you guys had PPV.
i see reading is not your forte

[box03]

I said 'mostly' an American thing. In our country usually the fights that people really want to see get put on PPV, every once in awhile we get fights like Taylor/Pavlik or Lewis/Vitali that should be put on PPV and we get to see them for free on HBO or Showtime if you got them stations.

[box03]

i see reading is not your forte I see boxing knowledge is not yours.

[sean]

but showtime and hbo are not for free.
you still have to pay a monthly subscription.

free is amir khan tonight on itv or wlad fighting on rtl where every single person in germany or the uk can watch .

[PH|LLA]

yea ok

[box03]

but showtime and hbo are not for free.
you still have to pay a monthly subscription.

free is amir khan tonight on itv or wlad fighting on rtl where every single person in germany or the uk can watch . You guys are lucky, subscriptions to HBO or Showtime usually run you about 20 bucs for the month.

[swedeone]

Another thread to try and substantiate Wladmir Klitschko. :nut

The division does suck. Period. There are 2 or 3 deceny guys and the rest are a joke. If Wlad was in the HW division 15-20 years ago, he would be nothing more than a fringe contenter that would never see a belt. Guys like Tyson, Holmes, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield would have all beaten him easily. Period. :yep

[sean]

its why boxing is popular in europe, because it is a primtime event on mainstream channels.

equivelent to live boxing on say cbs/nbc on at primetime.

big boxing events in the uk used to receive a 25 % market share of the whole population.

[box03]

Another thread to try and substantiate Wladmir Klitschko. :nut

The division does suck. Period. There are 2 or 3 deceny guys and the rest are a joke. If Wlad was in the HW division 15-20 years ago, he would be nothing more than a fringe contenter that would never see a belt. Guys like Tyson, Holmes, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield would have all beaten him easily. Period. :yep Very true, could you see what would happen if Wlad tried to clinch Bowe on the inside, Bowe would get in a couple uppercuts and the fight would be over.

[Geraldo R.]

The division does suck. Period. There are 2 or 3 deceny guys and the rest are a joke. If Wlad was in the HW division 15-20 years ago, he would be nothing more than a fringe contenter that would never see a belt. Guys like Tyson, Holmes, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield would have all beaten him easily. Period. :yep

Ahh, I knew you'd come along to demonstrate the sentimentality I was talking about. Perfect example. Thanks :good

[box03]

its why boxing is popular in europe, because it is a primtime event on mainstream channels.

equivelent to live boxing on say cbs/nbc on at primetime.

big boxing events in the uk used to receive a 25 % market share of the whole population. Not to sound ignorant, But if thats true why do fights that happen in Europe seem to try and accomodate US time zones? I heard sometimes that happen there take place at odd times in the morning just to be brodcasted in US at primetime viewing.

[Butch Coolidge]

Not to sound ignorant, But if thats true why do fights that happen in Europe seem to try and accomodate US time zones? I heard sometimes that happen there take place at odd times in the morning just to be brodcasted in US at primetime viewing.

They are paid to do that.

[swedeone]

Ahh, I knew you'd come along to demonstrate the sentimentality I was talking about. Perfect example. Thanks :good


If you needed my help to prove Wlad fights in the worst HW division in history and that we couldn't have been the water boy for many of the guys from the 80's, you should have simply asked me. :yep

:rofl

:hi: