What are Floyd Mayweather Jr. weekness? or Why I think he dose very well H2H.

[ripcity]

So what are his weekness? What about him and his style and abilities suguests tio you that he would not win a fanasty match up?
I'm not saying that he beats everybody. However I would make a lot of money if I were a betting man based on the opinion in this forum.
As for his weekmes. From what I can tell. 1. He can be a slow starter. The Judah, De La Hoya and Hatton fights are the best evdiance to that. In a close fight loseing those early rounds could cost him. 2. Being a counter puncher it is nesscarly to let the other guy get off first sometimes letting his opoent make contact on the shoulder or gloves. While these are non scoring shots in the heat of battle the judges might not be able to tell the diffrance. Also being a counter puncher may be what leads to his slow starts as he adjusts to his opoents style. 3. He dose not realy throw combos 4. he Dose not relay on a lead jab. The Phily-Shell style defense that he uses is not condusive to throwing combos or lead jabs. Usualy it is a stright right lead fallowed by a left hook and reset. 5. While his style is effective he is not the most exciting boxer to watch 6. His behiveor outside of the ring. I thought issues 3 & 4 should be adressed together so should 5 & 6. Both lead to crowd influence. There is a reason that certan boxers have more suport than others. Boxers who tend to be more offensive minded tend to have more fans than those who are defensive minded. Also it is hard to root for someone who comes off as a jerk
I think these are his most glareing weekness.
I think he make up for the first weekness by finishing strong. I think short of being stoped he would win pretty much any 15 round fight while he might not have enough points after 12 rounds. As for opoents making contact with him the contact is usualy not on a scoring part of his body and he usualy able to counter with a scoring shot of his own. While he might not throw more than 2 shots at a time they usualy both land. Another thing to consider is his size Mayweather is a big man even for his curent weight class 147. He is also effective at using his size to his advantage to the point that smaller guys who may be more acomplished and or skilled are going to have trubble getting to him.
I think those who would beat Mayweather are the boxer type who willl make Mayweather come to them. It will also help to be taller or at least have a signifently longer reach. On the other hand I think any boxer who comes after Mayweather is going to fall into a trap. Mayweather is going to pick them off.

[itrymariti]

Low output, lack of offensive variety, vulnerability to getting trapped on the ropes, crude defence, little power, unwillingness to engage...

[Maxmomer]

He fights too scared, the bare minimum of offence to get by, always in his defensive shell.

[zadfrak]

And, of course, matchmaking. He's hardly a guy willing to go into the lions den for fights.

[thejokerswild]

Pressure high volume punching is what is key to beating Floyd. Especially in his older years. Call me stupid but I think Margerito is one with a chance against him.

It counters his low output, unwillingness to engage, little power(although it is underrated) and getting caught in the ropes. Floyd ducks low a lot and i think Antonio has the ugly brutal style to seize that flaw in his style.

[teeto]

He's very great technically, but ripcity overrates him a bit, must be said. Mayweather's defence from a technical standpoint is brilliant, and he can adapt during a fight, which is a tremendous attribute. Fighters like Zab Judah though who had great handspeed were able to do well against him, and Judah was not a fighter who adapted well when a game plan was not going to plan. That's why i'd favour Whitaker, Whitaker has even more variation to his game than Floyd and would possibly be able to trump his man for that reason. The more technically sound guys have been able to fare better against Mayweather, such as Castillo and even Oscar, who is a technician but in the grand scheme of technical prowess on a greatness level, falls short. Mayweather is a true level elite fighter for me, so i'm not at all detracting from him, but i don't want to really hear about this unbeatable stuff, not when we're pitting him against every man in history anyway.

[lefthook31]

I think he approached the Judah fight a little differently because of a few things Judah was able to get Floyd to do early. He uncharacteristically stood his ground in the Judah and also the Corley fight and got caught a little. Those guys made him lead a little more than he wanted to, and in my opinion thats the way to get to Floyd. Make him lead and come forward and then start counterpunching him.
I think what people are saying that hes vulnerable to pressure and getting trapped on the ropes is a little overated, because even when he does do that he doesnt lose rounds that much, so its really more him allowing his opponent to get close.
The few times you saw him get nailed was when he was forced to come forward and not work off his backfoot and shoulder which is the way he likes to fight.
The way to beat a counterpuncher and potshotter is to make him come forward and then unload on him with combinations and then back off again.

[lora]

He ccould really be doing with a better jab.It's not that it's particularly bad when he does throw it, but he isnt as educated with his left-hand work as a lot of other high-end pure boxers and stylists.relies a bit much on going into a shell defensively, when it would be better to jab and step off to the side.

More napoles-esque slips and pivots while controlling the mid-distance exchanges with said jab would help his style in fights with other excellent/great fighters, where playing D is only going to get you outworked, even if you slip/block 4 punches for eveyr 1 that is getting through.

[lefthook31]

Funny how many weaknesses Floyd has. It must be his weak competition that lets him get away with so many mistakes. The guy is undefeated over 12-14 years of professional fighting, won a title in his 17th or 18th fight, yet hes so flawed. Its got to be the most amazing run since maybe Brian Nielson at heavyweight....

[bodhi]

Funny how many weaknesses Floyd has. It must be his weak competition that lets him get away with so many mistakes. The guy is undefeated over 12-14 years of professional fighting, won a title in his 17th or 18th fight, yet hes so flawed. Its got to be the most amazing run since maybe Brian Nielson at heavyweight....

Point out which of the mentioned ones aren't there if you disagree. And yeah, his opposition isn't great historically spoken.

[Flea Man]

Funny how many weaknesses Floyd has. It must be his weak competition that lets him get away with so many mistakes. The guy is undefeated over 12-14 years of professional fighting, won a title in his 17th or 18th fight, yet hes so flawed. Its got to be the most amazing run since maybe Brian Nielson at heavyweight....


said opposition means he doesn't have to make too many mistakes IMO.

[Popkins]

Funny how many weaknesses Floyd has. It must be his weak competition that lets him get away with so many mistakes. The guy is undefeated over 12-14 years of professional fighting, won a title in his 17th or 18th fight, yet hes so flawed. Its got to be the most amazing run since maybe Brian Nielson at heavyweight....

For once, you've hit the nail on the head. His comp has been weak. If Floyd was at 147 10 years earlier, he wouldn't be keeping that zero in a division including Whitaker, Oscar, Tito, Ike, and then Mosley. Then again, he probably would because he wouldn't fight any of them.

[Flea Man]

And to think Floyd won a poll against Ike Williams.

[Popkins]

He fights too scared, the bare minimum of offence to get by, always in his defensive shell.

Low output, lack of offensive variety, vulnerability to getting trapped on the ropes, crude defence, little power, unwillingness to engage...

This and this pretty much sum it up. A very good fighter, but like everyone else he has flaws.

[lefthook31]

Point out which of the mentioned ones aren't there if you disagree. And yeah, his opposition isn't great historically spoken.
Its not so bad that he wouldnt have losses on his record if he was making so many mistakes either. Hes been fighting and moving up weight divisions his entire career. Hes not a particularly big strong guy either, and yes fighting on the championship level against his caliber of opposition would expose those deficiencies if they were there in a more convincing manner.
Bottom line is hes undefeated, and until he gets exposed for the shortcomings so many of you point out, I say hes allowing certain things to happen more than his opponents are making it happen. I understand the hate for this guy, hes a total dipshit, but hes a very talented fighter thats beaten a wide variety of styles, usually of which one or two or three matches up favorably over the course to expose a fighters shortcomings. Floyd for the most part has been dominant over all of them.
No fighter is perfect, and there is a way to beat everyone, but so far Floyd has proven to be a very hard puzzle to crack.

[Flea Man]

Its not so bad that he wouldnt have losses on his record if he was making so many mistakes either. Hes been fighting and moving up weight divisions his entire career. Hes not a particularly big strong guy either, and yes fighting on the championship level against his caliber of opposition would expose those deficiencies if they were there in a more convincing manner.
Bottom line is hes undefeated, and until he gets exposed for the shortcomings so many of you point out, I say hes allowing certain things to happen more than his opponents are making it happen. I understand the hate for this guy, hes a total dipshit, but hes a very talented fighter thats beaten a wide variety of styles, usually of which one or two or three matches up favorably over the course to expose a fighters shortcomings. Floyd for the most part has been dominant over all of them.
No fighter is perfect, and there is a way to beat everyone, but so far Floyd has proven to be a very hard puzzle to crack.

What's the point if you're seeking out less challenging fights?

[lefthook31]

What's the point if you're seeking out less challenging fights?
Cmon its not that bad in the case of this discussion. Look at the way Forrest offset Mosley, or Mayorga offset Forrest. Floyd has never been lost, confused or drowned, in any of his fights. Were still talking about championship opposition, and maybe what you guys are really saying is that Floyd is so good, he needs to seek out "great" opposition, which I would agree, but I dont think much of a case can be made for him having so many flaws that hes been able to navigate his career so perfectly for a decade and a half but more of how he falls into the ATG lists because of the opposition he has been fighting.

[BENNY BLANCO]

At 130 there is no fighter that beats him at that weight. Alexis Arguello would give Floyd his toughest challenge but fall short. Floyd weaknesses such as low output and too defensive came as he moved up in weight.

[Bing]

At 147 Mayweathers low output would be his undoing against the elite of the division although I think he would be competitive with most of them. At 130-140 I believe him to be one of the best of all time he was much more active at these weights and also showed alot more movement which he has somewhat abandoned at 147. Hes a great fighter imo although his opposition lately has been poor.

[teeto]

At 147 Mayweathers low output would be his undoing against the elite of the division although I think he would be competitive with most of them. At 130-140 I believe him to be one of the best of all time he was much more active at these weights and also showed alot more movement which he has somewhat abandoned at 147. Hes a great fighter imo although his opposition lately has been poor.
Yeah, the run of his at 130 gets ignored quite a lot. It's not just the movement he had there either, it was the positioning that impressed me more. The way he would crouch against Corrales then take advantage of the right moment to spring through with accurate right hands and hooks was class. But then we'll only get people saying Corrales was made to order in response to that. It's a good win regardless.

[lefthook31]

I think Floyd just recently grew into being a true welterweight. Hes always been a small guy, but getting a little older now he looks stronger and more filled out. The Mosley fight should be interesting.

[teeto]

I think Floyd just recently grew into being a true welterweight. Hes always been a small guy, but getting a little older now he looks stronger and more filled out. The Mosley fight should be interesting.
Even if this is true, he's been winning fights at 147 for some time and against fighters who have done well at the weight, so he's been a valid welterweight for a while. That's how i look at it anyway. That's not to say he is at his own best form at 147, but he's a proven 147 man. I think he'll beat Mosley anyway, Shane will probably be looking without ideas at stages of the fight. Like against Winky when he'd flurry and every semi punch would hit the gloves of Winky, it was like he was working the pads.

[lefthook31]

Even if this is true, he's been winning fights at 147 for some time and against fighters who have done well at the weight, so he's been a valid welterweight for a while. That's how i look at it anyway. That's not to say he is at his own best form at 147, but he's a proven 147 man. I think he'll beat Mosley anyway, Shane will probably be looking without ideas at stages of the fight. Like against Winky when he'd flurry and every semi punch would hit the gloves of Winky, it was like he was working the pads.
Yeah I think Shane is going to have a tough time closing the gap, and going back to my other statement, even moreso now that Mayweather is a little stronger.

[Bing]

I think Floyd just recently grew into being a true welterweight. Hes always been a small guy, but getting a little older now he looks stronger and more filled out. The Mosley fight should be interesting.

Agreed he did seem bigger but it make have looked that way because Marquez was undersized to say the least. Yeah if Floyd can beat Mosley then Pac he will be the best of the generation for me.

[teeto]

Agreed he did seem bigger but it make have looked that way because Marquez was undersized to say the least. Yeah if Floyd can beat Mosley then Pac he will be the best of the generation for me.
Bernard Hopkins is everyone's idol.

[Bing]

Bernard Hopkins is everyone's idol.

Not mine mate.

[teeto]

Not mine mate.
Relax son, it was a joke.

And change up your morals:lol::D

[Bing]

Relax son, it was a joke.

And change up your morals:lol::D

You've totally lost me.

[teeto]

You've totally lost me.

Hostile cunt

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

i'm only kidding, forget it

[Flea Man]

Floyd is massively overrated, even for ability.


Benitez>Floyd :deal

[Bing]

Floyd is massively overrated, even for ability.


Benitez>Floyd :deal

Na dont see it myself floyd at 130 is better than benetiz imo

[GPater11093]

Floyd is massively overrated, even for ability.


Benitez>Floyd :deal

Benitez really was amazing.

Na dont see it myself floyd at 130 is better than benetiz imo

Floyd at 130lbs was brilliant but wasnt as rounded as he later became (but he had a better offence and I still think the 130lb Floyd was his prime). I just think Benitez was much more varied, better defensivly and when he did get going better offensivly.

This article was written for this thread wasnt it SH?

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[Flea Man]

Benitez was clearly better than floyd IMO in resume as well as ability.

Floyd was awesome at 140, but his oponents there were hardly mind blowing. There is a lot of glitter surroudinf Corrales but for me he is one of the most overrated fighters of the past ten or so years.

[Bing]

Benitez really was amazing.



Floyd at 130lbs was brilliant but wasnt as rounded as he later became (but he had a better offence and I still think the 130lb Floyd was his prime). I just think Benitez was much more varied, better defensivly and when he did get going better offensivly.

This article was written for this thread wasnt it SH?

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Thats the difference you say he hes better offensively when he gets going but he often didnt get going that should be held against him imo

[GPater11093]

Thats the difference you say he hes better offensively when he gets going but he often didnt get going that should be held against him imo

Definitly, even so I still think he is better. He IMO has the better defence, so even when he refuses to lead he still can counter superbly.

Were talking about a guy for part of a fight was making Ray Leonard look stupid, albeit he lost the fight he still looked very good doing so. And schooling Duran and Cervantez really was magical.

For Mayweather he definitly had some brilliant skills but he has never showcased them at the top level say at 130lbs although he was winning the fight hands down, he was struggling with Gennaro Hernandez, at Lightweight he struggled with Castillo etc...

Also Floyd is class, I dont deny that.

[Bing]

Definitly, even so I still think he is better. He IMO has the better defence, so even when he refuses to lead he still can counter superbly.

Were talking about a guy for part of a fight was making Ray Leonard look stupid, albeit he lost the fight he still looked very good doing so. And schooling Duran and Cervantez really was magical.

For Mayweather he definitly had some brilliant skills but he has never showcased them at the top level say at 130lbs although he was winning the fight hands down, he was struggling with Gennaro Hernandez, at Lightweight he struggled with Castillo etc...

Also Floyd is class, I dont deny that.

I agree he strugled with Castillo but he pretty much dominated Genaro Hernandez all the way if my memory serves me correct. I maybe need to watch more Benitez the fight where he really impressed me were the weston and hope fights combined defense and offense brilliantly in those. Still dont think hes better than Floyd like each to their own I suppose.

[teeto]

Definitly, even so I still think he is better. He IMO has the better defence, so even when he refuses to lead he still can counter superbly.

Were talking about a guy for part of a fight was making Ray Leonard look stupid, albeit he lost the fight he still looked very good doing so. And schooling Duran and Cervantez really was magical.

For Mayweather he definitly had some brilliant skills but he has never showcased them at the top level say at 130lbs although he was winning the fight hands down, he was struggling with Gennaro Hernandez, at Lightweight he struggled with Castillo etc...

Also Floyd is class, I dont deny that.
For me Mayweather proved he was a great fighter at 130. That's not to blow his greatness out of proportion, not at all. I still think his best win is Castillo at 135, but his best body of work is clearly at 130. On Benitez, he is the one with the more mindblowing performances, and i'm not talking about the Duran fight, i'm talking about how he clicked into gear so early in the Cervantes fight, it's tremendous. He's the better counterpuncher, but i don't want to underrate Mayweather's versatility, i really rate the ability to switch up a gameplan whilst on the job. But i understand that people aren't convinced with his post 135 career.

[GPater11093]

I agree he strugled with Castillo but he pretty much dominated Genaro Hernandez all the way if my memory serves me correct. I maybe need to watch more Benitez the fight where he really impressed me were the weston and hope fights combined defense and offense brilliantly in those. Still dont think hes better than Floyd like each to their own I suppose.

The Hernandez fight was one-sided scoring but quite scrappy if i remember right.

Benitez was amazing, I cant say how much he impresses me. Sure I know he aint the best fighter ever but he is impressive.

Also I would rate him as a slightly better ring general than Floyd, look at the way he out jabs Benitez then counters what is coming back at him.

For me Mayweather proved he was a great fighter at 130. That's not to blow his greatness out of proportion, not at all. I still think his best win is Castillo at 135, but his best body of work is clearly at 130. On Benitez, he is the one with the more mindblowing performances, and i'm not talking about the Duran fight, i'm talking about how he clicked into gear so early in the Cervantes fight, it's tremendous. He's the better counterpuncher, but i don't want to underrate Mayweather's versatility, i really rate the ability to switch up a gameplan whilst on the job. But i understand that people aren't convinced with his post 135 career.

good post. He was very adaptable, would you say Benitez wasnt adapatble?

[Bing]

For me Mayweather proved he was a great fighter at 130. That's not to blow his greatness out of proportion, not at all. I still think his best win is Castillo at 135, but his best body of work is clearly at 130. On Benitez, he is the one with the more mindblowing performances, and i'm not talking about the Duran fight, i'm talking about how he clicked into gear so early in the Cervantes fight, it's tremendous. He's the better counterpuncher, but i don't want to underrate Mayweather's versatility, i really rate the ability to switch up a gameplan whilst on the job. But i understand that people aren't convinced with his post 135 career.

So whos better in your opinion May or Benitez? Stop sitting on the fence:yep

[teeto]

The Hernandez fight was one-sided scoring but quite scrappy if i remember right.

Benitez was amazing, I cant say how much he impresses me. Sure I know he aint the best fighter ever but he is impressive.

Also I would rate him as a slightly better ring general than Floyd, look at the way he out jabs Benitez then counters what is coming back at him.



good post. He was very adaptable, would you say Benitez wasnt adapatble?
No Benitez could adapt, but i'd say it's less consistent. But he never had to be consistent with it most of the time so it's a non factor really, he was winning fights how he wanted to win them. People associate him with constantly going to the ropes but he was schooling the outboxer in Cervantes at his own game. I know it's not the greatest version of Kid Pambele, but i'm talking strictly on the performance. He's gliding around circular pumping the jab and slipping (Archie Moore's apparent 'serpentine motion'), and it's class. He was technically sound, could dig shots in etc, so you can never label a fighter like that as not adaptable.

[teeto]

So whos better in your opinion May or Benitez? Stop sitting on the fence:yep
It's difficult. I've seen a bit more of Mayweather because i'm in touch with boxing and he's current. Like i said, Benitez has them mind blowing performances and that might edge it for me. Mayweather is consistent but it must be said although he was the best of a good 130 era (imo), he needs something else competition wise for us to rank him there.

It's not simple for me sorry, i rate both men. Wilfred Benitez is a bona fide legendary wizard though. Imagine Pacquiao goes and bangs him fight after next though, we have to wait to rank current vs past.

[GPater11093]

No Benitez could adapt, but i'd say it's less consistent. But he never had to be consistent with it most of the time so it's a non factor really, he was winning fights how he wanted to win them. People associate him with constantly going to the ropes but he was schooling the outboxer in Cervantes at his own game. I know it's not the greatest version of Kid Pambele, but i'm talking strictly on the performance. He's gliding around circular pumping the jab and slipping (Archie Moore's apparent 'serpentine motion'), and it's class. He was technically sound, could dig shots in etc, so you can never label a fighter like that as not adaptable.

Fair enough, why dont you think it was the best Cervantez?

[teeto]

Fair enough, why dont you think it was the best Cervantez?
Just that it's towards the end for him if i remember right. I might be wrong there? If it's the same Cervantes that come on late against the cut eye Locche then it's one of the best performances ever.

[GPater11093]

Just that it's towards the end for him if i remember right. I might be wrong there? If it's the same Cervantes that come on late against the cut eye Locche then it's one of the best performances ever.

It was three years after the Locche fight, and two fights earlier he had looked good against DeJesus

[teeto]

It was three years after the Locche fight, and two fights earlier he had looked good against DeJesus
Oh all the better then, that performance stands the test of time. If Bing's going for Mayweather on consistency whilst admitting he needs to see more Benitez then i'm saying it's perfectly viable to go for Benitez as the better boxer on his day technically. I'll go for that.

I'm going out now anyway, later Greg

[Flea Man]

if Floyd had met the likes of Sugar Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns, I'd bet my house that he wouldn't look as good/do the rounds as Benitez did.

[PowerPuncher]

Potentially open to a great jab, fast combinations plus he has weak hands and hasn't gotbig 1 punch power.

Some will suggest a low workrate, which also has the advantage of presenting less countering opportunities. He has raised his workrate when need be against Hatton/Chavez/Castillo. Its not a disadvantage if your fairly easily outlanding your opponent either.

Against a speedy Ray Leonard/Hearns he'd pay for playing the counter punching potshotting role, against a slower smaller Henry Armstrong/Arguello he wouldnt. Based on that a fast combination thrower like Mosley should cause him problems, but in turn Mosley has problems with boxers

As for standard of opposition, no its not FAB5 stuff but why not look at contempary opinions. No one thought there were better 130lb/135lbers than Hernandez/Corrales/Castillo at the time. No one thought Gatti was worse than Cotto/Hatton prior to Mayweather fighting him, no one rated Margarito over Judah prior to Mayweather making that fight (pretty much made before Judah lost), no one thought Cotto was better than Hatton prior to FMJ fighting Hatton. No one thought Delahoya was past it prior to FMJ fighting him.

[PowerPuncher]

if Floyd had met the likes of Sugar Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns, I'd bet my house that he wouldn't look as good/do the rounds as Benitez did.

I think they'd look remarkably similar, Bentez and Mayweather are very similar, Benitez is taller/rangier, Mayweather is faster of hand and foot, Benitez possibly has a better radar, Mayweather has a more complete defense

[teeto]

Potentially open to a great jab, fast combinations plus he has weak hands and hasn't gotbig 1 punch power.

Some will suggest a low workrate, which also has the advantage of presenting less countering opportunities. He has raised his workrate when need be against Hatton/Chavez/Castillo. Its not a disadvantage if your fairly easily outlanding your opponent either.

Against a speedy Ray Leonard/Hearns he'd pay for playing the counter punching potshotting role, against a slower smaller Henry Armstrong/Arguello he wouldnt. Based on that a fast combination thrower like Mosley should cause him problems, but in turn Mosley has problems with boxers

As for standard of opposition, no its not FAB5 stuff but why not look at contempary opinions. No one thought there were better 130lb/135lbers than Hernandez/Corrales/Castillo at the time. No one thought Gatti was worse than Cotto/Hatton prior to Mayweather fighting him, no one rated Margarito over Judah prior to Mayweather making that fight (pretty much made before Judah lost), no one thought Cotto was better than Hatton prior to FMJ fighting Hatton. No one thought Delahoya was past it prior to FMJ fighting him.
I agree with what you're saying about people changing their opinions on the fighters he beat in hindsight, Chavez, Hernandez (both of them) Corrales etc were the men to be beaten at the time, good contenders. But on Gatti i couldn't understand why people thought he had a chance in a million years against Mayweather, even to the extent of the mismatch it turned out to be, i was not surprised at all.

[bodhi]

As for standard of opposition, no its not FAB5 stuff but why not look at contempary opinions. No one thought there were better 130lb/135lbers than Hernandez/Corrales/Castillo at the time. No one thought Gatti was worse than Cotto/Hatton prior to Mayweather fighting him, no one rated Margarito over Judah prior to Mayweather making that fight (pretty much made before Judah lost), no one thought Cotto was better than Hatton prior to FMJ fighting Hatton. No one thought Delahoya was past it prior to FMJ fighting him.

There is some truth and much untruth in this. Yeah, Chavez, Hernandez, Coralles and Castillo were the men at the time but they are still his best wins. I agree that Judah was seen as beeing better as Margarito then but then he lost to Baldomir and everybody knew he wasn't. Gatti was thought of as good as Cotto or Hatton? No, just no. At the time quite a few people thought Cotto was as good or better as Hatton. And quite a few people called DLH a part-time fighter and past it before he faced Mayweather. Twisting facts again. :-(

[PowerPuncher]

I agree with what you're saying about people changing their opinions on the fighters he beat in hindsight, Chavez, Hernandez (both of them) Corrales etc were the men to be beaten at the time, good contenders. But on Gatti i couldn't understand why people thought he had a chance in a million years against Mayweather, even to the extent of the mismatch it turned out to be, i was not surprised at all.

At the time Gatti was coming off stopping the undefeated LW champ Dorin and was considered a banger at 140lbs, and beat Leija better than Tyszu managed from recollection. Mayweather was considered undersized at 140 at the time and it was questioned how he'd stand up to a big 140lbers (Gatti weighed 155 in the ring) power/chin. Gatti was also supposedly having a boxing renaisance under Buddy McGirt, who back then people thought was 1 of the best trainers with his success with Gatti/Tarver/etc, since then hes considered 1 of the worst. Funny how consensus opinions change. There was some bad blood between them at the time and Mayweather held it against Gatti even after the fight, naming him when asked the most 'whos overrated in the sport'. He then seemed sad/apologetic/respectful in an interview after Gattis death

There wasnt an ESB in 2000-2002 to my knowledge but if there was they'd be calling for Lewis to fight Tyson/Grant/Tua/Klitschkos and prob Ibeaubuchi, now some rag on him for not fighting Ruiz/Byrd :lol:

[PowerPuncher]

There is some truth and much untruth in this. Yeah, Chavez, Hernandez, Coralles and Castillo were the men at the time but they are still his best wins. I agree that Judah was seen as beeing better as Margarito then but then he lost to Baldomir and everybody knew he wasn't. Gatti was thought of as good as Cotto or Hatton? No, just no. At the time quite a few people thought Cotto was as good or better as Hatton. And quite a few people called DLH a part-time fighter and past it before he faced Mayweather. Twisting facts again. :-(

This shows you havent been on these forums, this was general ESB concensus, Im not saying it was right but Gatti was rated above the unproven Hatton/Cotto when Mayweather agreed to fight Gatti. There was actually a few threads where people posted their top10 at 140, and everyone pretty much had Gatti top5 or higher

DLH was coming off destroying Mayorga, the same Mayorga who gave Mosley a good scrap 18months ago. He was given an equal shot, lets not forget DLH would rehyrdate to 165lbs and Mayweather was a small WW with 3 fights above 140 and he was considered small at 140. There were questions how he would handle such a bigger man.

According to DLH fans he only lost to Hopkins because he was too small, he beat Mosley and had regained 154lb no1 status when he beat Mayorga

Baldomir was considered a gimme at the time and no one gave him a shot, but guess who was offered the same fight - Shane Mosley and Mosley wanted a vacation/holiday/dentistry

The fight with Judah was arranged prior to Judah losing. After the loss guess who was offered a fight with Mayweather, Margarito, guess who else Hatton. Both of these fighters he was supposedly 'ducking' and both were offered fights. Gatti got the Baldomir fight because he offered more money than Mayweather did. Mayweather couldnt get those 3 so went ahead with Judah anyway

[ricardoparker93]

Low output, lack of offensive variety, vulnerability to getting trapped on the ropes, crude defence, little power, unwillingness to engage...

The statements in bold show that you are a hater.

[teeto]

At the time Gatti was coming off stopping the undefeated LW champ Dorin and was considered a banger at 140lbs, and beat Leija better than Tyszu managed from recollection. Mayweather was considered undersized at 140 at the time and it was questioned how he'd stand up to a big 140lbers (Gatti weighed 155 in the ring) power/chin. Gatti was also supposedly having a boxing renaisance under Buddy McGirt, who back then people thought was 1 of the best trainers with his success with Gatti/Tarver/etc, since then hes considered 1 of the worst. Funny how consensus opinions change. There was some bad blood between them at the time and Mayweather held it against Gatti even after the fight, naming him when asked the most 'whos overrated in the sport'. He then seemed sad/apologetic/respectful in an interview after Gattis death

There wasnt an ESB in 2000-2002 to my knowledge but if there was they'd be calling for Lewis to fight Tyson/Grant/Tua/Klitschkos and prob Ibeaubuchi, now some rag on him for not fighting Ruiz/Byrd :lol:
Yeah i remember it clearly, at that time i was even more into the then current boxing scene than the present one, i was knowledgeable of prospects and all back then. I just couldn't get over it that the whole boxing resurgence was based mainly on the edging of the trilogy over Micky Ward and then wins over the likes of Branco (i think?), he had absolutely no chance with Mayweather, the media thought he did and i just thought it was insanity.

Of course i could be lying! But i'm not.

[bodhi]

This shows you havent been on these forums, this was general ESB concensus, Im not saying it was right but Gatti was rated above the unproven Hatton/Cotto when Mayweather agreed to fight Gatti. There was actually a few threads where people posted their top10 at 140, and everyone pretty much had Gatti top5 or higher

DLH was coming off destroying Mayorga, the same Mayorga who gave Mosley a good scrap 18months ago. He was given an equal shot, lets not forget DLH would rehyrdate to 165lbs and Mayweather was a small WW with 3 fights above 140 and he was considered small at 140. There were questions how he would handle such a bigger man.

According to DLH fans he only lost to Hopkins because he was too small, he beat Mosley and had regained 154lb no1 status when he beat Mayorga

Baldomir was considered a gimme at the time and no one gave him a shot, but guess who was offered the same fight - Shane Mosley and Mosley wanted a vacation/holiday/dentistry

The fight with Judah was arranged prior to Judah losing. After the loss guess who was offered a fight with Mayweather, Margarito, guess who else Hatton. Both of these fighters he was supposedly 'ducking' and both were offered fights. Gatti got the Baldomir fight because he offered more money than Mayweather did. Mayweather couldnt get those 3 so went ahead with Judah anyway

As if I would waste my time discussing with you. :roll:

[lefthook31]

Yeah i remember it clearly, at that time i was even more into the then current boxing scene than the present one, i was knowledgeable of prospects and all back then. I just couldn't get over it that the whole boxing resurgence was based mainly on the edging of the trilogy over Micky Ward and then wins over the likes of Branco (i think?), he had absolutely no chance with Mayweather, the media thought he did and i just thought it was insanity.

Of course i could be lying! But i'm not.
No he had no chance, most knew that. Ricky Hatton was thought to have more of a chance. I remember Mayweather thinking it was some monumental accomplishment beating Gatti, but it was more because he filled the arena thanks to Gatti.

[teeto]

No he had no chance, most knew that. Ricky Hatton was thought to have more of a chance. I remember Mayweather thinking it was some monumental accomplishment beating Gatti, but it was more because he filled the arena thanks to Gatti.
But people did think Gatti had a chance though. Even i was dumb enough to think Hatton had a chance, i can admit it, so yeah hindsight is great, haha.

[lefthook31]

There is some truth and much untruth in this. Yeah, Chavez, Hernandez, Coralles and Castillo were the men at the time but they are still his best wins. I agree that Judah was seen as beeing better as Margarito then but then he lost to Baldomir and everybody knew he wasn't. Gatti was thought of as good as Cotto or Hatton? No, just no. At the time quite a few people thought Cotto was as good or better as Hatton. And quite a few people called DLH a part-time fighter and past it before he faced Mayweather. Twisting facts again. :-(
Cotto was considered better than Hatton for sure. I think with Judah, noone believed at that time he had become the gutless fighter he became. He wasnt outclassed by Baldomir, he just showed up lazy and in poor shape. He had a pretty good string of tough fights from Mayweather on, but seemed to lose his will to win.
As far as Oscar, he was inconsistent, but he was still looking pretty good, and even against Hopkins he was holding his own for a few rounds, just vastly outgunned. Floyd was the little guy looking up, and the way Oscar hung in with middleweights, most people thought with his speed and bigger size, he would have a chance with Floyd. Oscar really showed his true colors in the Forbes fight, because a smaller guy beat him up pretty good, something we hadnt seen before and something that continued in the Pac fight at a lower weight.

[lefthook31]

But people did think Gatti had a chance though. Even i was dumb enough to think Hatton had a chance, i can admit it, so yeah hindsight is great, haha.
I thought Hatton had more of a chance than Gatti did, because Hatton threw a lot more punches, and if anything he would have had a better chance of getting closer and roughing up Floyd because he had better speed too. Gatti I never thought had any kind of chance too slow too predictable.

[teeto]

De La Hoya was definitely given a serious chance across the board against Mayweather, that's not debatable, i remember it clear as day.

[teeto]

I thought Hatton had more of a chance than Gatti did, because Hatton threw a lot more punches, and if anything he would have had a better chance of getting closer and roughing up Floyd because he had better speed too. Gatti I never thought had any kind of chance too slow too predictable.
So we have a lot in common then!

[PowerPuncher]

Yeah i remember it clearly, at that time i was even more into the then current boxing scene than the present one, i was knowledgeable of prospects and all back then. I just couldn't get over it that the whole boxing resurgence was based mainly on the edging of the trilogy over Micky Ward and then wins over the likes of Branco (i think?), he had absolutely no chance with Mayweather, the media thought he did and i just thought it was insanity.

Of course i could be lying! But i'm not.

I wouldnt be suprised if you did, I thought Mayweather would win but was going to have to be on his bike against Gatti, when you look at both their fights against Manfredy you can see a different class, although some people were saying Gatti was drained for that 1 dont know if he was

I predicted Pacquaio would become top3 P4P after the first Morales fight, everyone said I was mad and no chance at the time

[PowerPuncher]

I thought Hatton had more of a chance than Gatti did, because Hatton threw a lot more punches, and if anything he would have had a better chance of getting closer and roughing up Floyd because he had better speed too. Gatti I never thought had any kind of chance too slow too predictable.

I was more concerned as a fan of Hatton than Cotto, as Hatton brought allot more intensity/workrate/footspeed and he looked pretty brutal against Castillo and unstoppable against Tyszu, obviously wasnt looking as hot against Collazo

[PowerPuncher]

Mayweather was struggling with Gennaro Hernandez, .

Did you think he was struggling with Gatti to :lol:

[Flea Man]

At the end of the day, these discussions cannot really be settled until Floyd has finished his career.

A fight with Pac would sort out Floyds standing once and for all IMO, really hope it comes off.

I mean, Mosley is hardly going into this fight being given much of a chance. Hasn't fought in ages (by the time he will have fought Floyd, Pac would've had three fights) is getting on, and stylistically is at a major disadvantage against Floyd due to Floyd footspeed/footwork.

He can pot shot all night against Shane. Just hope Brother Nazim can come up with a gameplan(s) to make things a bit more interesting on the night, as I've come to the conclusion Floyd will coast this one.

[bodhi]

De La Hoya was definitely given a serious chance across the board against Mayweather, that's not debatable, i remember it clear as day.

I never disputed that but everybody also knew DLH was already past it and only a part-time-big-money-fights-fighter.

[PowerPuncher]

I mean, Mosley is hardly going into this fight being given much of a chance. Hasn't fought in ages (by the time he will have fought Floyd, Pac would've had three fights) is getting on, and stylistically is at a major disadvantage against Floyd due to Floyd footspeed/footwork..

Floyds will have had 1 fight in 2 1/2 years, Mosley will have had 2 in that time. Mosleys past prime at 38, but remained not too far removed from prime, Mayweather is also past prime at 33 himself but probably not as much, although hes clearly slipped/slowed from his 130-140lb best

[teeto]

I never disputed that but everybody also knew DLH was already past it and only a part-time-big-money-fights-fighter.
I think the win is underrated to some degree now though, it's totally written off as a complete nothing and it is not quite that.

[bodhi]

I think the win is underrated to some degree now though, it's totally written off as a complete nothing and it is not quite that.

Nah, imo it's the only big win of Mayweather above 135. All others of his Top5 wins I think were at 130/135.

[teeto]

Nah, imo it's the only big win of Mayweather above 135. All others of his Top5 wins I think were at 130/135.
Yeah that's probably without saying though. Depending on how one would rank the Judah win in comparison to say Chavez or Carlos Hernandez etc. I was just commenting solely on how the De La Hoya win is written off as basically a nothing win. He had seen better days, but that win is better than suggested by what seems to be the masses, in my opinion anyway.

[Vanboxingfan]

No he had no chance, most knew that. Ricky Hatton was thought to have more of a chance. I remember Mayweather thinking it was some monumental accomplishment beating Gatti, but it was more because he filled the arena thanks to Gatti.

I'm not sure why but I alway equate the fight between Gatti and Mayweather along the lines of Lewis - Tyson, in that the general public tend to over rate the name fighter (ie Tyson, Gatti) but those who watch boxing on a regular basis knew that (a) Tyson was way over the hill and that (b) Gatti wasn't in Mayweather's league.

For me I wish Mayweather had fought better comp. Even if he wins against Mosely, this isn't the prime version of Mosely, and if he wins against Pac, his size advantage would likely help. I wish he could have gone down the path Duran did, when he fought much bigger guys and win or lose he gave them all hell (except Hearns of course). At least then you know when you reached a wall. There's a saying in boxing if you haven't lost, you haven't fought to your true potential. But at least now Mayweathers starting to make decent fights and the fight with Mosely should be good. If Mayweather wins, I hope he has to gut out a win, and is forced to actually fight. That I would enjoy seeing and it would certainly help his legacy.

[itrymariti]

The statements in bold show that you are a hater.

Floyd did less damage to Marquez than Diaz. He is not a puncher at 147.

His defence is good, but it isn't educated enough to beat ATG opposition. He can avoid one or two punches, but has trouble with speed and combination punching. It's a very bad habit to let an opponent attack you on the ropes at will. Better defensive fighters would use range control and head movement as a primary defence mechanism and use it to set up countering opportunities, rather than simply running at breakneck speed to the ropes and trying deflect a whole load of shots until your opponent gives up as a matter of course. It's like Arthur Abraham's defence in a way: good against not-so-great opposition who can't work out how to find the openings, but against great, intelligent fighters it's a big weakness.

[Mendoza]

Low output, lack of offensive variety, vulnerability to getting trapped on the ropes, crude defence, little power, unwillingness to engage...

That is his style. I would not say little power is a problem for Mayweather. He can punch his weight.

We won't know if Mayweather's style and tendencies is a weakness until another fighter forces Mayweather to fight on those terms.

I do not think Mayweather has a glass jaw like Roy Jones.

[Bill Butcher]

Mayweather is close to a complete boxer, the obvious thing that stands out is his reluctance to throw combinations but he CAN throw them when necessary so its more his choice to throw one punch at a time than throw combinations rather than a weakness or inability.

His leaning on the ropes using the shoulder roll defence can be a work of art to watch at times but against a Mosely or Pacquiao - guys that can throw fast, hard, accurate shots, it could get him in trouble... but its also clear than FMJ is extremely smart when in the ring, he usually knows what he`s up against & adapts the correct methods to neutralize his opponents strengths.
Floyd has good defence in ring centre too by using his feet, side to side etc & Id imagine he`d employ that sort of D vs a Pac or SSM while using his superior timing to pot shot them to fuck.

All in all, he`s not perfect but he`s the best of this era & thats really the best you can expect from any fighter.

[Bill Butcher]

His defence is good, but it isn't educated enough to beat ATG opposition.

Whatever gives you that idea Im not sure because nobody in his own era has cracked it enough to to any damage whatsoever to him.

Mayweather will give any fighter a tough time from 130-140, while Id favour Armstrong, Duran & Chavez over him, there are not too many others Id be confident of picking over him.... not saying he beats everyone at those weights except those 3 but its just that I think he has a real solid shot.

[ryanm8655]

I know this may sound a little silly but does anyone think hypothetically a welterweight version of Joe Calzaghe would give floyd problems?

Immense volume and speed, good chin and ring intelligence.

[teeto]

Well if that fighter could be a reality, then yes, of course. Calzaghe is one i rate highly head to head. But i must say on the contrary, i scored Hopkins as a winner over him, by one point. What Hopkins did there was slow down the pace of Calzaghe's fight, something i thought was impossible and was pretty amazed to see unfold before my eyes, you'd have to say that Mayweather is very good at doing this also. Although it's speculation, because Mayweather has never been in with a guy with tremendous variation.

[bodhi]

Well if that fighter could be a reality, then yes, of course. Calzaghe is one i rate highly head to head. But i must say on the contrary, i scored Hopkins as a winner over him, by one point. What Hopkins did there was slow down the pace of Calzaghe's fight, something i thought was impossible and was pretty amazed to see unfold before my eyes, you'd have to say that Mayweather is very good at doing this also. Although it's speculation, because Mayweather has never been in with a guy with tremendous variation.

I agree. Calzaghe h2h would be a tough fight for many atgs at 175 and for everyone at 168. I also had Hopkins ahead by one point, basically the knockdown winning him the fight. I won't complain about people who think Calzaghe won. IMO fights like these should be no decision fights, neither deserved to be the winner.

[teeto]

I agree. Calzaghe h2h would be a tough fight for many atgs at 175 and for everyone at 168. I also had Hopkins ahead by one point, basically the knockdown winning him the fight. I won't complain about people who think Calzaghe won. IMO fights like these should be no decision fights, neither deserved to be the winner.
Yeah i agree on it being close on the cards, but i do think that whoever you judge it for does deserve to be called the winner though, in this case for me and you Hopkins. I get what you mean though, hardly Morales-Barrera 1. I thought Hopkins boxed very well early though tbh.

[PowerPuncher]

I agree. Calzaghe h2h would be a tough fight for many atgs at 175 and for everyone at 168. I also had Hopkins ahead by one point, basically the knockdown winning him the fight. I won't complain about people who think Calzaghe won. IMO fights like these should be no decision fights, neither deserved to be the winner.


Wow you made a post I agree with :nut

[bodhi]

Wow you made a post I agree with :nut

Which means you slowly become a mentally sane human being :D

[Popkins]

Mayweather is close to a complete boxer

Nonsense. :good

[Popkins]

At 130 there is no fighter that beats him at that weight. Alexis Arguello would give Floyd his toughest challenge but fall short. Floyd weaknesses such as low output and too defensive came as he moved up in weight.

Chavez eats Floyd from 130 to 140.

[Popkins]

Nonsense. :good

I'll elaborate since I didn't have time to do so yesterday:

Obviously there's no such thing as a complete boxer, but to say someone is close to being complete must mean they have proven to be highly proficient in very different fights against very high calibre opposition.

Ray Leonard fought in the pocket for 15 rounds against one of the greatest swarmers in history, Roberto Duran, and only lost by a few points. He proved his infighting abilities, chin, toughness, heart, will and stamina.

Ray Leonard then showed his offensive arsenal when he smashed Tommy Hearns. Hearns was one of the most fearsome welterweights in history, and Ray overcame physical disadvantages to get to Tommy, and find the right punches, land them, and end the fight. Wonderful combination punching.

Ray Leonard showed he could move and box as well, against Duran in the rematch and against Hagler. In the Duran rematch, he was quick and elusive. In the Hagler fight, he showed great movement, fast hands, but also tactical discipline and toughness again. In the Benitez fight, he showed great all-round skills.


THAT is proof of being close to the complete boxer.

Realizing you couldn't convincingly beat Jose Luis Castillo in the 1st fight by engaging him, so choosing to run the clock down in the rematch and stink the place out instead is NOT.

[Flea Man]

Mayweather is close to a complete boxer, the obvious thing that stands out is his reluctance to throw combinations but he CAN throw them when necessary so its more his choice to throw one punch at a time than throw combinations rather than a weakness or inability.

His leaning on the ropes using the shoulder roll defence can be a work of art to watch at times but against a Mosely or Pacquiao - guys that can throw fast, hard, accurate shots, it could get him in trouble... but its also clear than FMJ is extremely smart when in the ring, he usually knows what he`s up against & adapts the correct methods to neutralize his opponents strengths.
Floyd has good defence in ring centre too by using his feet, side to side etc & Id imagine he`d employ that sort of D vs a Pac or SSM while using his superior timing to pot shot them to fuck.

All in all, he`s not perfect but he`s the best of this era & thats really the best you can expect from any fighter.

No he ain't.

[Flea Man]

I'll elaborate since I didn't have time to do so yesterday:

Obviously there's no such thing as a complete boxer, but to say someone is close to being complete must mean they have proven to be highly proficient in very different fights against very high calibre opposition.

Ray Leonard fought in the pocket for 15 rounds against one of the greatest swarmers in history, Roberto Duran, and only lost by a few points. He proved his infighting abilities, chin, toughness, heart, will and stamina.

Ray Leonard then showed his offensive arsenal when he smashed Tommy Hearns. Hearns was one of the most fearsome welterweights in history, and Ray overcame physical disadvantages to get to Tommy, and find the right punches, land them, and end the fight. Wonderful combination punching.

Ray Leonard showed he could move and box as well, against Duran in the rematch and against Hagler. In the Duran rematch, he was quick and elusive. In the Hagler fight, he showed great movement, fast hands, but also tactical discipline and toughness again. In the Benitez fight, he showed great all-round skills.


THAT is proof of being close to the complete boxer.

Realizing you couldn't convincingly beat Jose Luis Castillo in the 1st fight by engaging him, so choosing to run the clock down in the rematch and stink the place out instead is NOT.

Agreed.

Floyds skillset looks astonishing.

But I wonder how astonishing it would look against a great offensive fighter. Mosley won't prove it, he's too slow of foot to capitalise IMO.

Floyd=Damn good. Amazing at times, breathtaking skills.

But his resume just not justify a top ranking, in this era IMO, and alltime he doesn't touch my top 60.



BILL: Call me a hater if you will, but I feel I'm being a realist.

[Popkins]

Agreed.

Floyds skillset looks astonishing.

But I wonder how astonishing it would look against a great offensive fighter. Mosley won't prove it, he's too slow of foot to capitalise IMO.

Floyd=Damn good. Amazing at times, breathtaking skills.

But his resume just not justify a top ranking, in this era IMO, and alltime he doesn't touch my top 60.



BILL: Call me a hater if you will, but I feel I'm being a realist.

You think the exact same as me. He does indeed have some lovely skills, but I've yet to see them proven effective in a big fight with a great opponent. I thought he looked shite vs his two best opponents so far (JLC and Oscar). His resume is weak, because he has been cherrypicking for about 8 years. He has it all to prove IMO. We will know more after May 1st. I expect him to win, but I'm hoping for a great performance and not the usual running the clock down refusing to engage over-cautious bollocks.

[Flea Man]

You think the exact same as me. He does indeed have some lovely skills, but I've yet to see them proven effective in a big fight with a great opponent. I thought he looked shite vs his two best opponents so far (JLC and Oscar). His resume is weak, because he has been cherrypicking for about 8 years. He has it all to prove IMO. We will know more after May 1st. I expect him to win, but I'm hoping for a great performance and not the usual running the clock down refusing to engage over-cautious bollocks.

Either way, Mosley is not the kinda opponent that would solidify greatness IMO.

If that were the case than I'd rank Cotto over Floyd:lol:

[teeto]

Mayweather didn't look shit against Oscar. What's he supposed to do, win every second of every round?

[Flea Man]

Mayweather didn't look shit against Oscar. What's he supposed to do, win every second of every round?

Regardless, I don't think he was mind blowing enough to justify the lofty rankings people give him on here.

[teeto]

Regardless, I don't think he was mind blowing enough to justify the lofty rankings people give him on here.
He gets fuck all rankings on HERE though Flea, as in the classic. I'm not blowing the win out of proportion, or the performance, i'm just saying that they're better than the absolute nothing they get made out to be on the classic. And yes, they're not as good as what Mayweather fans on the general will make out. I'm not sticking up for him, i'm not arsed about him, i'm just calling it how i see it from a neutral perspective.

[Popkins]

Mayweather didn't look shit against Oscar. What's he supposed to do, win every second of every round?

Nope. But Shane Mosley beat a prime version of Oscar more convincingly than Floyd managed with a vastly inferior version. Floyd doesn't need to win every second of every round, not even close, but he should be comprehensively defeating that version of Oscar if he is indeed the elite skilled ATG everyone thinks. Instead, he fought overly cautiously and defensively, and scraped through on an SD in an all-time stinker of a fight rather than actually try to assert his superiority over Oscar and win emphatically.

[teeto]

Nope. But Shane Mosley beat a prime version of Oscar more convincingly than Floyd managed with a vastly inferior version. Floyd doesn't need to win every second of every round, not even close, but he should be comprehensively defeating that version of Oscar if he is indeed the elite skilled ATG everyone thinks. Instead, he fought overly cautiously and defensively, and scraped through on an SD in an all-time stinker of a fight rather than actually try to assert his superiority over Oscar and win emphatically.
This is a mad way of assessing legacies or even performances. STYLES make fights, you're taking a prime version of Shane Mosley who had an absolute classic battle with De La Hoya and comparing it with 154 pound Floyd Mayweather who had his own best days at 130 pounds. Mayweather came through a tough fight against an Oscar who was not in terrible form at that weight. We can twist things all we want, Mayweather for me showed the ability to adapt mid fight when in need of doing so. Oscar will always struggle with quality offensive opposition who are not undersized, ie Shane Mosley beating him, and that was not a one sided fight either. Mayweather is a great defensive minded boxer and Oscar took advantage with his jab, only for Floyd to switch up the strategy and pick him off with the right.

I don't care about Floyd, just stop giving him shit.

[lefthook31]

He gets fuck all rankings on HERE though Flea, as in the classic. I'm not blowing the win out of proportion, or the performance, i'm just saying that they're better than the absolute nothing they get made out to be on the classic. And yes, they're not as good as what Mayweather fans on the general will make out. I'm not sticking up for him, i'm not arsed about him, i'm just calling it how i see it from a neutral perspective.
And you would be right. And yes, Mayweather is a complete fighter.

[teeto]

And you would be right. And yes, Mayweather is a complete fighter.

:good

I'm not going to say he isn't complete from a stylistic perspective, but i do think that Whitaker has an extra edge of versatility on him in that he can fight inside on full blown offense. Mayweather is brilliant inside but the emphasis is on countering with him, not that that is a bad thing, not at all, just that Whitaker did that plus he was able to battle away inside whilst forcing the fight ie push his man back.

[lefthook31]

:good

I'm not going to say he isn't complete from a stylistic perspective, but i do think that Whitaker has an extra edge of versatility on him in that he can fight inside on full blown offense. Mayweather is brilliant inside but the emphasis is on countering with him, not that that is a bad thing, not at all, just that Whitaker did that plus he was able to battle away inside whilst forcing the fight ie push his man back.
Mayweather can do it all. Hes not the same as Whitaker. He has a fairly unique style with that shoulder rolling and catching stuff. Hes just different, but he can box at range, fight inside, pressue, do it all. Mayweather will always look for the safer way to victory, because of his style, and it takes a certain type of opponent to bring that spectacular performance out of him.
I believe Mosley has the type of style that wont allow Floyd to take that safer route to victory, just as Margarito's style did for Mosley, so I expect a much more dramatic fight however it plays out.

[teeto]

Mayweather can do it all. Hes not the same as Whitaker. He has a fairly unique style with that shoulder rolling and catching stuff. Hes just different, but he can box at range, fight inside, pressue, do it all. Mayweather will always look for the safer way to victory, because of his style, and it takes a certain type of opponent to bring that spectacular performance out of him.
I believe Mosley has the type of style that wont allow Floyd to take that safer route to victory, just as Margarito's style did for Mosley, so I expect a much more dramatic fight however it plays out.
To be honest i think that if Floyd stands in front of Mosley and covers up he'll make him void of ideas. Mosley is a quality body puncher though so we'll see how that factors into things. I wasn't comparing Whitaker and Mayweather as fighters, just highlighting the levels of completeness if you like. I can't say Mayweather is not a complete boxer because he has too much variation for that, but my point on how a guy like Whitaker has even more variation is one i still stand by. I see you disagree but we'll have to agree to.

[Popkins]

This is a mad way of assessing legacies or even performances. STYLES make fights, you're taking a prime version of Shane Mosley who had an absolute classic battle with De La Hoya and comparing it with 154 pound Floyd Mayweather who had his own best days at 130 pounds. Mayweather came through a tough fight against an Oscar who was not in terrible form at that weight. We can twist things all we want, Mayweather for me showed the ability to adapt mid fight when in need of doing so. Oscar will always struggle with quality offensive opposition who are not undersized, ie Shane Mosley beating him, and that was not a one sided fight either. Mayweather is a great defensive minded boxer and Oscar took advantage with his jab, only for Floyd to switch up the strategy and pick him off with the right.

I don't care about Floyd, just stop giving him shit.

You must care about Floyd, otherwise you wouldn't be moaning about someone "giving him shit". If you don't care about him, why would that bother you?

And criticism is not the same as "giving him shit". I'm not on here saying "Floyd is a cocksucker" etc etc, I'm saying I thought his performance was poor against Oscar, and I stand by that. Oscar was years past his prime, and Floyd scraped past him in a stinker because he was too over-cautious to engage him.

Just my opinion. If you don't like it, don't like it. :good

[lefthook31]

To be honest i think that if Floyd stands in front of Mosley and covers up he'll make him void of ideas. Mosley is a quality body puncher though so we'll see how that factors into things. I wasn't comparing Whitaker and Mayweather as fighters, just highlighting the levels of completeness if you like. I can't say Mayweather is not a complete boxer because he has too much variation for that, but my point on how a guy like Whitaker has even more variation is one i still stand by. I see you disagree but we'll have to agree to.
No I just think theyre different. Mayweather is very good at throwing lead power shots, something Whitaker never did to that extent, so just different thats all, but both have/had complete skillsets.
As for Mosley, he will be trying to get close to Floyd and bringing a lot of pressure. Floyds going to have to fight more in this fight. Mosleys too strong for Floyd to just potshot him from the outside all fight. I think we'll see a much more exciting fight because of it.

[teeto]

You must care about Floyd, otherwise you wouldn't be moaning about someone "giving him shit". If you don't care about him, why would that bother you?

And criticism is not the same as "giving him shit". I'm not on here saying "Floyd is a cocksucker" etc etc, I'm saying I thought his performance was poor against Oscar, and I stand by that. Oscar was years past his prime, and Floyd scraped past him in a stinker because he was too over-cautious to engage him.

Just my opinion. If you don't like it, don't like it. :good
No you're nitpicking my choice of words to desctibe criticism now. I'm not a fan, just how i see the fighter.

Everyone knows i'm unbiased silly arse!!

[teeto]

No I just think theyre different. Mayweather is very good at throwing lead power shots, something Whitaker never did to that extent, so just different thats all, but both have/had complete skillsets.
As for Mosley, he will be trying to get close to Floyd and bringing a lot of pressure. Floyds going to have to fight more in this fight. Mosleys too strong for Floyd to just potshot him from the outside all fight. I think we'll see a much more exciting fight because of it.
I think it will be a good fight too. Yeah like i said i agree on them being different fighters.

[PowerPuncher]

Agreed.

Floyds skillset looks astonishing.

But I wonder how astonishing it would look against a great offensive fighter. Mosley won't prove it, he's too slow of foot to capitalise IMO.

Floyd=Damn good. Amazing at times, breathtaking skills.

But his resume just not justify a top ranking, in this era IMO, and alltime he doesn't touch my top 60.

BILL: Call me a hater if you will, but I feel I'm being a realist.

mOSLEY STILL HAS FASTER FEET THAN ARGUELLO/IKE WILLIAMS WHO IM SURE U PICK OVER HIM

oops caps

[PowerPuncher]

You think the exact same as me. He does indeed have some lovely skills, but I've yet to see them proven effective in a big fight with a great opponent. I thought he looked shite vs his two best opponents so far (JLC and Oscar). His resume is weak, because he has been cherrypicking for about 8 years. He has it all to prove IMO. We will know more after May 1st. I expect him to win, but I'm hoping for a great performance and not the usual running the clock down refusing to engage over-cautious bollocks.

Pure agenda, if JLC is Mayweathers best opponent why did Corrales and Hatton stop him? That wouldnt suit your agenda though because those were more emphatic victories

[PowerPuncher]

This is a mad way of assessing legacies or even performances. STYLES make fights, you're taking a prime version of Shane Mosley who had an absolute classic battle with De La Hoya and comparing it with 154 pound Floyd Mayweather who had his own best days at 130 pounds. Mayweather came through a tough fight against an Oscar who was not in terrible form at that weight. We can twist things all we want, Mayweather for me showed the ability to adapt mid fight when in need of doing so. Oscar will always struggle with quality offensive opposition who are not undersized, ie Shane Mosley beating him, and that was not a one sided fight either. Mayweather is a great defensive minded boxer and Oscar took advantage with his jab, only for Floyd to switch up the strategy and pick him off with the right.

I don't care about Floyd, just stop giving him shit.

Not only this but Mayweather was likely outweighed by 15-20lbs in the ring and was likely past his best at 30, Delahoya also got the choice of ring and gloves. It wasnt pretty but was still a clear win and he outlanded his man by 2-1, if not better because DLH did not land anything clean all night. Mayweather had no business at 154lbs

[Popkins]

Pure agenda, if JLC is Mayweathers best opponent why did Corrales and Hatton stop him? That wouldnt suit your agenda though because those were more emphatic victories

He knocked Corrales out with one punch in the rematch, and was a better fighter with a better career.

He was shot by the time he fought Hatton, and again JLC was the better fighter with the better career.

[Popkins]

Not only this but Mayweather was likely outweighed by 15-20lbs in the ring and was likely past his best at 30, Delahoya also got the choice of ring and gloves. It wasnt pretty but was still a clear win and he outlanded his man by 2-1, if not better because DLH did not land anything clean all night. Mayweather had no business at 154lbs

Choice of ring and gloves?! :lol: You're actually starting to sound like Floyd with your infantile bullshit.

I had never considered the ring and gloves angle before though. That puts a whole new spin on things all right. All of a sudden I think it might have been a virtuoso performance after all.... :patsch

And there's absolutely no way Oscar had 15-20 pounds on Floyd that night. Oscar didn't even weigh 160 on fightnight when he fought at middle, and Floyd was 150 vs Oscar, so I fail to see how Oscar could have been between 165 and 170. Talk about agenda...

To say Floyd was past his best implies he was past-prime, which is yet more agenda-driven dogshit.

[PowerPuncher]

He knocked Corrales out with one punch in the rematch, and was a better fighter with a better career.

He was shot by the time he fought Hatton, and again JLC was the better fighter with the better career.

Both were ruined by the first fight, maing COrrales win the bigger 1. Very close, both fighters resumes are very close the main difference being Castillo doing better against Mayweather.

Castillo was past it by the Hatton fight, but Hatton wrecked him and beat Tyszu to be top man at 140.

I'd rate all 3 fighters near each other, but styles make fights

Its laughable though that you make it sound as if Mayweather has only stepped up twice in his career and the rest of his opponents were bums. Hes taken on all manner of challenges

The Judah win is underrated, Judah had the second fastest hands in the sport, lost his undisputed title by looking past his opponent but was at his peak against Mayweather. Loads of power, fast feet, southpaw jab, faster hands than Mayweather - tough style for FMJ but you make it sound as if hes a hand picked bum, pure bias

[PowerPuncher]

Choice of ring and gloves?! :lol: You're actually starting to sound like Floyd with your infantile bullshit.

I had never considered the ring and gloves angle before though. That puts a whole new spin on things all right. All of a sudden I think it might have been a virtuoso performance after all.... :patsch

And there's absolutely no way Oscar had 15-20 pounds on Floyd that night. Oscar didn't even weigh 160 on fightnight when he fought at middle, and Floyd was 150 vs Oscar, so I fail to see how Oscar could have been between 165 and 170. Talk about agenda...

To say Floyd was past his best implies he was past-prime, which is yet more agenda-driven dogshit.

Oscar has always added 10-15lbs between weigh in and fight night, hes always done it. he was 160 in his damn 147lb fights and your telling me he didnt cut weight in his 160lb fights :lol: Mayweather was actually 148 in the ring, not 150, check the facts

Mayweather was 30 and not as fast/fluid with less workrate and hand problems, watch his 130lb performances and tell me hes as good at 154 :patsch

[GPater11093]

I think they'd look remarkably similar, Bentez and Mayweather are very similar, Benitez is taller/rangier, Mayweather is faster of hand and foot, Benitez possibly has a better radar, Mayweather has a more complete defense

:rofl:rofl

I dont see much similarities in Benitez and Floyd.

Did you think he was struggling with Gatti to :lol:

It was a wrong example, I reviewed it - Floyd dominated but it was scrappy.

mOSLEY STILL HAS FASTER FEET THAN ARGUELLO/IKE WILLIAMS WHO IM SURE U PICK OVER HIM

oops caps

:rofl:rofl

[PowerPuncher]

:rofl:rofl

1. I dont see much similarities in Benitez and Floyd.

2. It was a wrong example, I reviewed it - Floyd dominated but it was scrappy.

3. :rofl:rofl

1. Look at the defensive footwork, the style of shot slipping, the balance, the tendency to set traps by dropping the lead shoulder and rolling or stepping back, the use of angles, the jab to the body, the countering

2. Why scrappy?

3. What are you laughing at like Joe Louis, Ike and Arguello are plodders, its their key weakness, I'm not saying they arent great fighters

[lora]

Floyd is more like Canto and Kaambay than Benitez, if i was to compare him to older great defensive fighters technically.I prefer them technically though, albeit floyd had better physical ability at his best weightclass(130).

[PowerPuncher]

Floyd is more like Canto and Kaambay than Benitez, if i was to compare him to older great defensive fighters technically.I prefer them technically though, albeit floyd had better physical ability at his best weightclass(130).

I dont see any similarity with Kalambay, their techniques are polar opposities aparts. I'd stick with Benitez and Loche and obviously his daddy. Canto I havent seen much of, dont follow the tiny men

[elTerrible]

Mayweather isnt perfect there are a few different ways he could be beat. Despite what people think he CAN be outboxed there just isnt anyone good enough to do it today. Someone with a good jab like Hearns or Winky would easily beat him on the outside. But those are much bigger guys and Floyd started smaller so that isnt saying anything bad about Floyd. Today I believe he also could be out worked the way he only throws one punch at a time. That is Manny's best chance at beating him but I would strongly favor mayweather in that fight because I believe Pac would drop his output as he is getting countered. I think that Paul Williams could beat him at 147 due to output and I dont think Mayweather has the power to get his respect.

[lora]

Polar opposites aparts.that doesn't even make sense.

All that shoulder roll/"philly shell" based stuff you mayweather fans harp on about like it was smething new is taken right from those guys and yeah, Locche as well.They were just a lot smoother about it and integrated more of Pep influence in Canto's repsect or more Napoles'esque slipping and mid distance work.

one of Floyd's main moves, taking the half-step, or double step back in a straight line to invite the opponent in, but with the low left protecting the body, high right glove and chin tucked in behind the shoulder, so he remains aware defensively, and can keep charge of the xchange, is an exact replica of those two....only they would usually counter with left-hooks(canto) or uppercuts(sumbu),and retake ring-centre while Floyd tends to stay along the ropes and invite an infight or play defence.

Benitez slipped punches in an entirely more improvised manner usually, and his more textbook defensive performances have more in common with Napoles or Conteh for punch-slipping.Love the way he would go into a deliberately exaggerated leaning position then slip the lead and bring thedouble jab up at an agle off of his front-fot pivot.

[ripcity]

For the record I don't think Mayweather is a perfect or complete boxer. I do think he i very very good. He also has a size and style that make him hard to beat. Even for opoents who are considered to have bore talent/skills than him. I also think that his oppoestion is underated and the boxers who he has not fought are overated. Mayweather is at his best when he is going backwards and he can counter his opoent comming in. I don't see anyone who he is longer than who comes forward beating him. I don't see Duran Armstrong, Chavez or Pacquiao beating him. Sure all 4 are more than just come stright forward fighters but they are all at their best when coming forwards. I do not see any of them no matter how good their boxing skills are or how fast they might bee out boxing Mayweather. This is not a slight on any of them. Styles make fights and the styles favor Mayweather.
To beat Mayweather it helps to be longer than him which is not easy. Mayweather is 5′ 8″ with a reach of 72″ . Yes I think this is important information to consider. I think the main key however is to be more "boxer" than "fighter". I understand that people like to point out his first fight with Jose Luis Castlio as the blue print on how to beat him but I desagree. I think Castilio caught Mayweather on a bad night. If that was Mayweather at his best than the second fight would played out like the first did. Who would I pick to beat him? For starters Ray Leonard. Ray Leonard has the size advantages at 5′ 10″ and 74″ . He also has the skills and displine to stay on the outside and out box Mayweather. I also like Benny Leonard. While not as big as Mayweather. He was great at dictating the terms of the fight. He could get Mayweather to come to him unlike Duran, Chavez, Pacquiao and Armstrong Benny Leonard could out box Mayweather. I think Whitaker fits this catagory as well.
Even though both Paul Williams and Shane Mosley enjoy size advantages over Mayweather, because of their styles I would favor Mayweather.
I recall that ESPN anyalst Teddy Atlast likes to say that a boxer should know their stringhts and weekness. I think Mayweather dose know his and boxes acordingly.

[teeto]

Polar opposites aparts.that doesn't even make sense.

All that shoulder roll/"philly shell" based stuff you mayweather fans harp on about like it was smething new is taken right from those guys and yeah, Locche as well.They were just a lot smoother about it and integrated more of Pep influence in Canto's repsect or more Napoles'esque slipping and mid distance work.

one of Floyd's main moves, taking the half-step, or double step back in a straight line to invite the opponent in, but with the low left protecting the body, high right glove and chin tucked in behind the shoulder, so he remains aware defensively, and can keep charge of the xchange, is an exact replica of those two....only they would usually counter with left-hooks(canto) or uppercuts(sumbu),and retake ring-centre while Floyd tends to stay along the ropes and invite an infight or play defence.

Benitez slipped punches in an entirely more improvised manner usually, and his more textbook defensive performances have more in common with Napoles or Conteh for punch-slipping.Love the way he would go into a deliberately exaggerated leaning position then slip the lead and bring thedouble jab up at an agle off of his front-fot pivot.
You just killerd him, you won't get a reply to this most likely.

[PowerPuncher]

Polar opposites aparts.that doesn't even make sense.

All that shoulder roll/"philly shell" based stuff you mayweather fans harp on about like it was smething new is taken right from those guys and yeah, Locche as well.They were just a lot smoother about it and integrated more of Pep influence in Canto's repsect or more Napoles'esque slipping and mid distance work.

one of Floyd's main moves, taking the half-step, or double step back in a straight line to invite the opponent in, but with the low left protecting the body, high right glove and chin tucked in behind the shoulder, so he remains aware defensively, and can keep charge of the xchange, is an exact replica of those two....only they would usually counter with left-hooks(canto) or uppercuts(sumbu),and retake ring-centre while Floyd tends to stay along the ropes and invite an infight or play defence.

Benitez slipped punches in an entirely more improvised manner usually, and his more textbook defensive performances have more in common with Napoles or Conteh for punch-slipping.Love the way he would go into a deliberately exaggerated leaning position then slip the lead and bring thedouble jab up at an agle off of his front-fot pivot.

I wrote a longer reply to this but my IE crashed, but I never said Mayweather was doing something new

Just because someone fights out of a half guard and uses defensive footwork, doesnt make them similar. Kalambay uses much more lateral movement using movement to get in and out of jabbing range while circling, Mayweather steps off and looks to drop his shoulder to set traps then slips and counter or potshots, then stepping out to reset. Their footwork/slipping/balance/pivoting are all very different, kalambay also fights tall while Mayweather like to crouch dropping the lead shoulder to invite his man in before slipping to his right hip, somewhat similar to the bolded part of your description of Benitez

Canto i havent watched enough of

Benetiz I explained my reasons for seeing similarities, obviously he isnt identicle, he poses similar problems for Hearns/Leonard either way

[lora]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then, as i see most of your defensive comparisons and analysis differently and we could go at this for hours which would miss the point of the thread.

I don't think overall kalamba, canto and mayweather look all that similar incidentally, but defensively there is far more of a crossover in techniques than with Benitez.i just can't see that comparison at all.Floyd uses more glove, shoulder and arm defence in two or three fights than Benitez did in his entire career, and the angles they give are entirely different.

[Popkins]

Both were ruined by the first fight, maing COrrales win the bigger 1. Very close, both fighters resumes are very close the main difference being Castillo doing better against Mayweather.

Castillo was past it by the Hatton fight, but Hatton wrecked him and beat Tyszu to be top man at 140.

I'd rate all 3 fighters near each other, but styles make fights

Its laughable though that you make it sound as if Mayweather has only stepped up twice in his career and the rest of his opponents were bums. Hes taken on all manner of challenges

The Judah win is underrated, Judah had the second fastest hands in the sport, lost his undisputed title by looking past his opponent but was at his peak against Mayweather. Loads of power, fast feet, southpaw jab, faster hands than Mayweather - tough style for FMJ but you make it sound as if hes a hand picked bum, pure bias

As usual, you're defending against an attack which isn't being made. Saying that Castillo and Oscar were Floyd's two best opponents is not the same thing as saying everyone other than those two were bums. I think JLC and Oscar were his two best opponents, but I don't think the rest were "bums". I think Castillo was a clearly better fighter than Corrales or Hatton, but I don't think Corrales and Hatton were bums, far from it. You're extremely over-protective of your favourite.

Sorry but I disagree about Judah though. He was a mental midget coming off a beating by Carlos fucking Baldomir. Judah lost to pretty much every top fighter he faced, he never materialized as a top level fighter. I rank Corrales, Castillo, Oscar and Hatton as better wins. Judah was tricky, but no more. Any top welter beats him down eventually. Floyd outpointing him at that time was not a particularly good win, it was routine.

[McGrain]

As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I knew it would be absolutley mad.

[Popkins]

Oscar has always added 10-15lbs between weigh in and fight night, hes always done it. he was 160 in his damn 147lb fights and your telling me he didnt cut weight in his 160lb fights :lol: Mayweather was actually 148 in the ring, not 150, check the facts

Mayweather was 30 and not as fast/fluid with less workrate and hand problems, watch his 130lb performances and tell me hes as good at 154 :patsch

Pure bullshit, like only you can come up with. :patsch

Oscar has NOT always added 10-15lbs between weigh-in and fightnight, that is nonsense. Nor was he ever 160 when he weighed in at 147. I know for a fact he was 153 to Mosley's 155 when he fought Sugar Shane at welter.

I'll reiterate then explain for you: Oscar wasn't even 160 on fightnight when he fought at middle. Don't let the weight class he was fighting in fool you. Look at it this way - when Pac was fighting at 130, he was regularly around 145 on fightnight. Now that's he's fighting at 147, he's weighing in around 145 and only going up to 147-148 on fightnight. He was gaining 15lbs from sfw, but that doesn't mean he can gain another 15lbs when he weighs in at 145. Oscar was the same. Whether he fought at 147, 154, or 160, on fightnight he was between 153 and 158 or 159. He, like Pac, has a natural weight ceiling that his body didn't allow him to exceed no matter what the division was.

Oscar has always added 10-15lbs between weigh in and fight night, hes always done it.

Oscar weighed in at 155 for his mw fight with Hopkins. You're telling me he weighed in significantly under the limit, then rehydrated to 165-170lbs on the night? Complete and utter bullshit, as usual. Go watch Mosley-Oscar 1 and get back to me :good

Mayweather was actually 148 in the ring, not 150, check the facts

So 'Money' was 148, and you said he was giving away 15-20lbs, so that would make Oscar 163-168 after weighing in at 154?? Fail.

Mayweather was 30 and not as fast/fluid with less workrate and hand problems, watch his 130lb performances and tell me hes as good at 154

Of course he isn't as good as he was, but that's a different thing from being past-prime, which you implied he now was. He isn't. Floyd has passed his physical prime at his best weight, but he shows absolutely no signs of slipping whatsoever. You could argue that Hatton was his most complete performance (I think it's a brilliant performance), and that came on the back of the De La Hoya fight. Floyd has changed and became a little less effective in my view since his 130 days, but that's standard evolution in a fighter. It's like saying Pernell Whitaker was past-prime when he beat McGirt and (imo) Chavez at welter at the age of 29, or like saying Oscar De La Hoya was past-prime when he stopped Fernando Vargas then (imo) outfought Shane Mosley at lightmiddle when he was 29-30. Like Floyd, both Pea and Oscar had passed their physical primes and their best weights by then, but they weren't showing any real signs of decline that would justify them being labelled 'past-prime', they were still at the top of their game by then, just like Floyd is now. (both Pea and Oscar declined shortly after these periods, I wonder if Floyd will too?)

One of the few things I really admire about Floyd Mayweather is the longevity of his prime. Longevity is a quality I really really rate and admire in a fighter, I think it's of crucial importance in all-time rankings. Floyd has had a really long prime period without any real sign of decline. He has changed sure, but it's more of an evolution than a decline. He is a different fighter now, but still a very effective one. He was brilliant vs Hernandez in 1998, he was brilliant against Hatton in 2007, and I expect he will produce a similar standard vs Mosley in 2010. Not many fighters of this age are still producing prime performances without a period of decline 12 years after they first won a world title. That may be attributed to Floyd not fighting that often, it may be attributed to years of soft opposition, but it's still a very impressive feat in my book.

[lefthook31]

The bottom line is Floyd's never been a "big" physical welterweight and hes fought accordingly at the higher weights. Had the division been as stacked with paydays at junior welter Im sure Floyd would have stayed there. Things may be a bit different now that he has filled out a little more.

[Renofan]

And to think Floyd won a poll against Ike Williams.

That is sickening.

[sdsfinest22]

Pure bullshit, like only you can come up with. :patsch

Oscar has NOT always added 10-15lbs between weigh-in and fightnight, that is nonsense. Nor was he ever 160 when he weighed in at 147. I know for a fact he was 153 to Mosley's 155 when he fought Sugar Shane at welter.

I'll reiterate then explain for you: Oscar wasn't even 160 on fightnight when he fought at middle. Don't let the weight class he was fighting in fool you. Look at it this way - when Pac was fighting at 130, he was regularly around 145 on fightnight. Now that's he's fighting at 147, he's weighing in around 145 and only going up to 147-148 on fightnight. He was gaining 15lbs from sfw, but that doesn't mean he can gain another 15lbs when he weighs in at 145. Oscar was the same. Whether he fought at 147, 154, or 160, on fightnight he was between 153 and 158 or 159. He, like Pac, has a natural weight ceiling that his body didn't allow him to exceed no matter what the division was.



Oscar weighed in at 155 for his mw fight with Hopkins. You're telling me he weighed in significantly under the limit, then rehydrated to 165-170lbs on the night? Complete and utter bullshit, as usual. Go watch Mosley-Oscar 1 and get back to me :good



So 'Money' was 148, and you said he was giving away 15-20lbs, so that would make Oscar 163-168 after weighing in at 154?? Fail.



Of course he isn't as good as he was, but that's a different thing from being past-prime, which you implied he now was. He isn't. Floyd has passed his physical prime at his best weight, but he shows absolutely no signs of slipping whatsoever. You could argue that Hatton was his most complete performance (I think it's a brilliant performance), and that came on the back of the De La Hoya fight. Floyd has changed and became a little less effective in my view since his 130 days, but that's standard evolution in a fighter. It's like saying Pernell Whitaker was past-prime when he beat McGirt and (imo) Chavez at welter at the age of 29, or like saying Oscar De La Hoya was past-prime when he stopped Fernando Vargas then (imo) outfought Shane Mosley at lightmiddle when he was 29-30. Like Floyd, both Pea and Oscar had passed their physical primes and their best weights by then, but they weren't showing any real signs of decline that would justify them being labelled 'past-prime', they were still at the top of their game by then, just like Floyd is now. (both Pea and Oscar declined shortly after these periods, I wonder if Floyd will too?)

One of the few things I really admire about Floyd Mayweather is the longevity of his prime. Longevity is a quality I really really rate and admire in a fighter, I think it's of crucial importance in all-time rankings. Floyd has had a really long prime period without any real sign of decline. He has changed sure, but it's more of an evolution than a decline. He is a different fighter now, but still a very effective one. He was brilliant vs Hernandez in 1998, he was brilliant against Hatton in 2007, and I expect he will produce a similar standard vs Mosley in 2010. Not many fighters of this age are still producing prime performances without a period of decline 12 years after they first won a world title. That may be attributed to Floyd not fighting that often, it may be attributed to years of soft opposition, but it's still a very impressive feat in my book.

fail on your post homie...oscar weighed 165 on fight night with floyd..floyd weighted 150...do the math n shhhhhh

[PowerPuncher]

Pure bullshit, like only you can come up with. :patsch

Oscar has NOT always added 10-15lbs between weigh-in and fightnight, that is nonsense. Nor was he ever 160 when he weighed in at 147. I know for a fact he was 153 to Mosley's 155 when he fought Sugar Shane at welter..

Delahoya was over 160 in his Chavez rematch

[PowerPuncher]

fail on your post homie...oscar weighed 165 on fight night with floyd..floyd weighted 150...do the math n shhhhhh

Weights werent taken to my knowledge, Floyd dropped below 150 after the weigh in

[PowerPuncher]

Oscar weighed in at 155 for his mw fight with Hopkins. You're telling me he weighed in significantly under the limit, then rehydrated to 165-170lbs on the night? :good.

Lots of fighters add loads of weight after dehydrating too much. Hatton weighed 145 against Mayweather and was 155+ in the ring, Williams was 145 against Margorito and gained weight, lots of fighters do it. If you are used to cutting out food/water and taking diurtetics to make weight you follow the routine

Hopkins himself dehydrated to 156 before getting into the ring at 172

BTW the Hopkins fight was at a 157 catch weight

Given that delahoya looked to be bigger than he'd ever been in the ring, isnt it likely hes at the mid 160s?

[PowerPuncher]

1. Of course he isn't as good as he was, but that's a different thing from being past-prime, which you implied he now was. He isn't. Floyd has passed his physical prime at his best weight, but he shows absolutely no signs of slipping whatsoever. You could argue that Hatton was his most complete performance (I think it's a brilliant performance), and that came on the back of the De La Hoya fight. Floyd has changed and became a little less effective in my view since his 130 days, but that's standard evolution in a fighter.

2. It's like saying Pernell Whitaker was past-prime when he beat McGirt and (imo) Chavez at welter at the age of 29,

3. or like saying Oscar De La Hoya was past-prime when he stopped Fernando Vargas then (imo) outfought Shane Mosley at lightmiddle when he was 29-30. Like Floyd, both Pea and Oscar had passed their physical primes and their best weights by then, but they weren't showing any real signs of decline that would justify them being labelled 'past-prime', they were still at the top of their game by then, just like Floyd is now. (both Pea and Oscar declined shortly after these periods, I wonder if Floyd will too?)

4. One of the few things I really admire about Floyd Mayweather is the longevity of his prime. Longevity is a quality I really really rate and admire in a fighter, I think it's of crucial importance in all-time rankings. Floyd has had a really long prime period without any real sign of decline. He has changed sure, but it's more of an evolution than a decline. He is a different fighter now, but still a very effective one. He was brilliant vs Hernandez in 1998, he was brilliant against Hatton in 2007, and I expect he will produce a similar standard vs Mosley in 2010. Not many fighters of this age are still producing prime performances without a period of decline 12 years after they first won a world title. That may be attributed to Floyd not fighting that often, it may be attributed to years of soft opposition, but it's still a very impressive feat in my book.

1. You've stated yourself hes past his physical prime, Im not saying hes well past it, just past his best, his hand issues have plagued him worse over the years

2. I think he probably was, certainly by he got to rivera and hurtado before he lost

3. DLH was certainly past his physical best by Vargas, although I do think he was a bit smarter at 154

4. Mayweather above 130 isnt quite the same, for whatever reason he is much more cautious/less aggressive whether its caution, bad hands, lack of stamina I dont know. I cant actually remember him losing many rounds at the weight against the best of opposition outside of the Carlos Hernandez fight where he broke his hand and Chavez grabbed a few

[Popkins]

Delahoya was over 160 in his Chavez rematch

No PP, he was not.

[Popkins]

Lots of fighters add loads of weight after dehydrating too much. Hatton weighed 145 against Mayweather and was 155+ in the ring, Williams was 145 against Margorito and gained weight, lots of fighters do it. If you are used to cutting out food/water and taking diurtetics to make weight you follow the routine

Hopkins himself dehydrated to 156 before getting into the ring at 172

BTW the Hopkins fight was at a 157 catch weight

Given that delahoya looked to be bigger than he'd ever been in the ring, isnt it likely hes at the mid 160s?

Oscar was not in the mid 160s when he fought Floyd I know that much, but I do not believe for a second he was there vs B-Hop either. If he could have weighed that much, why would he bother cutting to 155 instead of just weighing in heavier? It doesn't make sense.

[lefthook31]

Oscar was not in the mid 160s when he fought Floyd I know that much, but I do not believe for a second he was there vs B-Hop either. If he could have weighed that much, why would he bother cutting to 155 instead of just weighing in heavier? It doesn't make sense.
Depends what kind of shape he was in before he started camp. In the case of Oscar fighting Hopkins, he had to be in top form, especially coming off of looking like a saggy bag in the Sturm fight. Most likely he was in better shape going into that camp as opposed to Sturm, since the fights were fairly close to each other unlike his previous fight with Mosley. He didnt cut weight, just trained down naturally, which is the best way to do it anyway.