Is Manny Pacquiao the new Henry Armstrong?

[ironchamp]

I was watching the Cotto vs. Pacquiao fight the other day and one of the comments Lampley made regarding Henry Armstrong jumping up weight divisions and comparing him to Manny got me thinking.

When you consider the quality of wins and the fact that he's won titles in 7 different weight classes including the lineal title in 4 different weight classes. Is there a legitimate argument that Manny Pacquaio is the new Henry Armstrong?

And if so what is the highest possible rank that he merits at this time.

I chose to do this thread in the classic forum for obvious reasons.

Best wins in no particular order

Erik Morales x2
Marco Antonio Barerra x2
Juan Manuel Marquez
Ricky Hatton
Miguel Cotto
Oscar De la Hoya

8 wins over 6 quality elite level fighters (though you can argue that De la Hoya was not an elite level at 147 at the time they met) and a decent supporting cast of:

David Diaz
Oscar Larios
Jorge Solis

Well?

[PowerPuncher]

Yes, both are great at weight hopping, up there with the best weight hopping of any fighter. But both arent that great/dominant H2H at any particular weight class

[EleventhHour]

Yes, both are great at weight hopping, up there with the best weight hopping of any fighter. But both arent that great/dominant H2H at any particular weight class

I think depending on how Manny does against Clottey, then if he wins, against the PBF/Sugar Shane winner (if he beats them all decisively) then it would be fair to say that's he's a dominant Welterweight.

Still too early to say though.

[PowerPuncher]

I think depending on how Manny does against Clottey, then if he wins, against the PBF/Sugar Shane winner (if he beats them all decisively) then it would be fair to say that's he's a dominant Welterweight.

Still too early to say though.

If that happens I'd sort of agree although I cant see it happening and if it did (it wont) but he still wouldnt be a top3 WW H2H. IMO he was twice beat by Marquez at 126/130 so at those weights he isnt a H2H king at those weights

[bodhi]

I would compare him more with Canzoneri or McLarnin but even than he is not up with those two. Not even speaking about Armstrong.

Pac is great, no doubt but people get carried away quite a bit.

[Boxed Ears]

I rank Armstrong in the top 1-5 and Pac in the top 30-35. Only one Armstrong for me though. No new ones. Just the one.

[kidargentine]

No. Even though Armstrong won titles in only 3 divisions, it was actually a much bigger achievement given the nature of armstrongs era...

[PowerPuncher]

No. Even though Armstrong won titles in only 3 divisions, it was actually a much bigger achievement given the nature of armstrongs era...

Like Armstrong not having to face the other top blk contenders :yep

[Russell]

Relative to the quality of fighters in general the past few decades, sure, he could be considered a modern Armstrong.

Very few (No one sane anyway) people are going to claim Pacquiao's greatness is comparable to Armstrong's, but, again.... Relative to the talent pools he's moved through and how he's dispatched his opposition you could make the comparison.

[PowerPuncher]

1 big difference is Pacquaio was always the bigger man pre-140lbs, he would add a solid 4lbs of muscle year on year and get bigger. Tell me how many times Pacquaio has been the smaller man in the ring, probably his last 3 and first Morales fight

Armstrong was in with bigger men, Pacman wasnt

[ChrisPontius]

I voted "yes". Not because i think Pacquiao is as great as Armstrong, but because Pac is the modern equivalent. Due to politics, money, etc, it's simply not possible for a modern, established boxer to fight 12 times a year and rack up a legacy like Armstrong did. But Pac's weight class jumping certainly is remarkable, not to mention the fact that he has legit, proven one-punch KO power all the way up to 140lbs.

[My2Sense]

He's not the new Armstrong, but the new McLarnin.

His career has spanned from flyweight to welter, but he's never settled into or cleaned out any one weight class.

[My2Sense]

Like Armstrong not having to face the other top blk contenders :yep

Yeah, Ray Robinson, Willie Joyce, Beau Jack, Chalkey Wright, and John Thomas were as white as bones. :nut :lol:

[asero]

pacquiao has to fight outside of his home country. Armstrong wasn't

[lefthook89]

Yeah, Ray Robinson, Willie Joyce, Beau Jack, Chalkey Wright, and John Thomas were as white as bones. :nut :lol:

i always thought that was a hilarious name for a black guy

[lefthook89]

but i say not yet, because if he continues to dominate then he will damn sure be the next armstrong. he's getting there though

[WhataRock]

i always thought that was a hilarious name for a black guy

I remember reading an article about old Albert where the writer said something like Wright "looked like he just stepped out of an ink well" :lol:

[OBCboxer]

pacquiao has to fight outside of his home country. Armstrong wasn't

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[Popkins]

I voted "yes". Not because i think Pacquiao is as great as Armstrong, but because Pac is the modern equivalent. Due to politics, money, etc, it's simply not possible for a modern, established boxer to fight 12 times a year and rack up a legacy like Armstrong did. But Pac's weight class jumping certainly is remarkable, not to mention the fact that he has legit, proven one-punch KO power all the way up to 140lbs.

This. :deal

[Popkins]

pacquiao has to fight outside of his home country. Armstrong wasn't

But not this. :deal

[RockysSplitNose]

Pacman is one of the greatest fighters of all time in his own right - it's enough to say he is simply a phenom full stop. No comparisons necerssary with anyone but stylewise I would say he reminds me a lot of another phillipine phenom pancho villa. But yeah PAC is one of the greatest fighters I have ever seen and I'd go as far to say he impresses me probably more than Armstrong to watch.

[TBooze]

Henry Armstrong is Henry Armstrong, a one off...

But Manny Pacquiao is Manny Pacquiao, a one off...

Greatness IMO, is rarely thrust on an active fighter, and because of the death of the mainstream sport, Pacquiao is always going to find it a struggle to ever be considered up there with the Armstrongs' of this world.

He is going to have to be patient, absence makes the heart grow fonder, and I am sure 30 years or so down the line, there will be an argument to consider Manny Pacquiao, Great.

[Stonehands89]

But both arent that great/dominant H2H at any particular weight class

Like Armstrong not having to face the other top blk contenders :yep
....Still just making it up as you go along, aren't you.

[My2Sense]

pacquiao has to fight outside of his home country. Armstrong wasn't

Armstrong had fights in Mexico and Cuba, you Ass !! :patsch

[My2Sense]

Yes, both are great at weight hopping, up there with the best weight hopping of any fighter. But both arent that great/dominant H2H at any particular weight class

:lol: Armstrong cleaned out FW and unified the title, and soundly beat both the world champ and clear #1 contender at WW.

[essexboy]

both are unique

[My2Sense]

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:lol:

More like this, actually:

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[Unforgiven]

Manny Pacquiao is just Manny Pacquiao.
That should be enough.