DID BARRERA make a good account of himself??

[Spit Bucket]

i havent seen the fight but going by some of the threads here...it looks like manny won a wide UD(?)

...but i think its OK to say that MOST of us expected Pac to beat Barrera and some even thought that he would just blow him away but i guess that wasnt the case...so to all other barrera fans like me...with Barrera going the full 12 rds, did he make a good account of himself? (and pls enough of this he was a pussy & shit...you think you can stand in the ring with pac for 12 rds?)

[41fever]

i thought Pac was gonna drill him but the fight was close and I thought Barrera outclassed Pac...this sets up the rematch, JMM vs PAC 2

[yalipito]

Yes he did very good, that's my opinion

[codeman99998]

I actually thought Barerra won a razor thin decision.

[josak]

I don't think Barrera made a good account of himself at all. He didn't engage Pacquaio at pretty much any point in the fight. He was content to just walk around and throw a few jabs. He did a job at evading many of Pacquaios punches, but he was too hesitant to follow-up with any kind of offense. A very boring, lackluster fight.

[41fever]

I actually thought Barerra won a razor thin decision.i thought i was only one

[GARCIA]

Barrera surprised me.

I thought PAC was gonna murder him.

I can't decide who won. Leaning towards PAC.

[josak]

I actually thought Barerra won a razor thin decision.

Beer-goggles, anyone?

[johnco]

I actually thought Barerra won a razor thin decision.

:rofl :rofl

[younghov2k4]

I don't think Barrera made a good account of himself at all. He didn't engage Pacquaio at pretty much any point in the fight. He was content to just walk around and throw a few jabs. He did a job at evading many of Pacquaios punches, but he was too hesitant to follow-up with any kind of offense. A very boring, lackluster fight.

i agree except he did go after Pacquiao a little more then you say.

on top of that though, he made excuses to Larry Merchant after the loss saying that Pacquiao head butt him and that it changed the whole fight for him. he mentioned that twice and then goes on and says that there's no excuses and shit.

he always has an excuse for losing. i hate that shit. :roll:

[josak]

Some of you guys must of watched a completely different fight, because I saw Barrera win like or two rounds. The rest was your typical Pacquaio fight: right hand jabs and the straight left down the middle. Barrera did a job at actually avoiding some of those this time, but he didn't do anything back.

[saul_ir34]

I just got back from watching the fight im a little drunk but everyone agreed with me that when there was big exchanges the one that seemed to be dazed was PAC especially in the 5th and 11th round. it might have been a punch after the break in the 11th but hey what happened to this iron chin of his??? i thought he was gonna go down.(PAC)

[Main Events]

Pacquiao has never had an iron chin lol

[skellington]

I only saw up to round 10 (TV shut out) but I thought it was dead even, with Berrera looking more controlled. I thought the judges scores were way out.

[codeman99998]

Look, I didn't have punchstat numbers because I watched it on *******, but here is what I saw.

Barerra dictated the pace of the fight, circled to his left, and frustrated Pac. Pac couldn't really get any great offense going, because Barerra kept him off with the jab, and landed some good counter shots during the fight. I had Barerra winning rounds 3-5 and a few others (I don't remember exactly). Barerra's punches SEEMED to me to bother Pac more than Pac's bothered Barerra, and a lot of Pac's punches seemed like they only partially made contact, whereas Barerra's, while fewer in number, seemed cleaner.

I'm not like, upset with a decision win for Pac. I had it Barerra 6-5-1.

I also bet my friend 50 dollars that Pac would win. I really thought he would, but I was super nervous coming to the decision.

[Spit Bucket]

one reason why i didnt watch this fight is seeing pac a lil bit drained during the weight in...some fans thought that it was a good thing for barrera but i kindof saw it otherwise...coz if he comes in near 144 during fight night and with that solid chin that he has i dont think that barrera could hurt him (w/ the exception of the body of course)..but im a bit glad that he wasnt bull rushed...BTW how much did pac weigh during the fight?

[RafaelGonzal]

hOW IN THE HELL ANYONE CAN SEE BARRERA WINNING THIS FIGHT IS BEYOND ME. IT IS JUST INSANE.

[Toopretty]

Barrera is one slick and smart boxer..He fought shitty fan wise but was just doing everything right to take Manny out of a groove that he normally gets in and dominates guys with.

[codeman99998]

hOW IN THE HELL ANYONE CAN SEE BARRERA WINNING THIS FIGHT IS BEYOND ME. IT IS JUST INSANE.

Really? Do the people who think that Pac won think it was so amazingly one-sided that it must be insane to think Barerra won?

Shit dude, I must be in bizarro world. Maybe the fact that Manny didn't totally dominate him like I thought he would slightly biased my opinion, but I'm pretty sure Barerra boxed pretty well...

[chimba]

MAb - I got cheated I won that fight..I headbutted him punched him after the bell I won with my left

PAC = the fisrt MAB fight I just got lucky.

lets move beyond boxing

This is a real MAN PAC a humble man

Mab is a classless trash and whoever supports him is pretty much trash themselves.

[kukoy]

I actually thought Barerra won a razor thin decision.

You must have been watching nother fight.

I was actually impressed with MAB for the first few rounds as he was actually fighting and engaging. After that, it was all waiting to counter and hesitant to throw. The most that I would give MAB is two rounds.

And yeah, Pac was rocked by that punch during that break in the 11th. I thought I saw him do some chicken dance on that corner. Had that been in the middle rounds, I believe Pac would have been a goner. The ref actually gave him good amount of time to recover from that.

[codeman99998]

You must have been watching nother fight.

I was actually impressed with MAB for the first few rounds as he was actually fighting and engaging. After that, it was all waiting to counter and hesitant to throw. The most that I would give MAB is two rounds.

And yeah, Pac was rocked by that punch during that break in the 11th. I thought I saw him do some chicken dance on that corner. Had that been in the middle rounds, I believe Pac would have been a goner. The ref actually gave him good amount of time to recover from that.

Yeah, definitely, MAB is a dirty dirty fighter. I mean, shit, im not trying to be biased, maybe I'll have to rewatch the fight.

[pejevan]

Punch stats tell differently. Pacman connected 159 power punches compared to barrera's 75. The total punch connected is lose to 1:2 ratio. It was not competitive.

[pejevan]

Really? Do the people who think that Pac won think it was so amazingly one-sided that it must be insane to think Barerra won?

Shit dude, I must be in bizarro world. Maybe the fact that Manny didn't totally dominate him like I thought he would slightly biased my opinion, but I'm pretty sure Barerra boxed pretty well...

That is more dominating than JMM vs. MAB fight. Punch stat wise is close to 1:2. for every one punch marco connects, Pac connects two. If that is not domination, I don't know what is. Although people might be in awe that MAB survived because many thought he would be dominated like in the first fight, but much worse.

[jopez707]

I actually thought it was a close fight, i was a little befuddled at some of the compubox numbers, alot of pacs punches didnt seem to really land. I scored it a close decision win for pac (could have been a draw if it wasnt for the point deducion), but it was no 118-110 b.s...it was tactical fight for Barrera kind of like a Hopkins fight.

[jopez707]

That is more dominating than JMM vs. MAB fight. Punch stat wise is close to 1:2. for every one punch marco connects, Pac connects two. If that is not domination, I don't know what is. Although people might be in awe that MAB survived because many thought he would be dominated like in the first fight, but much worse.

People are stupid if they thought Manny would dominate him like the first time, there was no way Barrera was going to go out on his ass like Morales did. Barrera fought a tactical fight that he could have won if he was more active.

[knockout]

I thought he show no class.

[Raden]

Barrera survived because he did nothing except running...:D what a shame... and yahoo sports said he don't want to accept defeat...

[knockout]

Barrera survived because he did nothing except running...:D what a shame... and yahoo sports said he don't want to accept defeat...Nah he just wanted the cash.

[shelterr]

Anyone who thinks that Barrera won this fight is blind. And this is coming from a guy who was ROOTING for Barrera. I even put 100 vcash on Barrera because i really thought he could pull the upset. Barrera fought a more timid fight than i thought possible. His output was a joke and he landed very few effective punches. And he only punched back when he was hit. His brother had to have been one of the WORST cornermen I have ever seen. It saddens me that this fight was the end of Barrera's otherwise stellar career. If Barerra had stunted Pac's offense with some offense of his own he could have taken the fight, because Pacman was NOT 100%. The Juan Manuel Marquez that fought Barerra in March OWNS the Pac that just fought Barerra. JMM W12 Pac in the rematch.

[cuchulain]

Barerra won the sixth round. Rounds 4 and 12 might have been even.

Pac won the rest.

[bandeedo]

pac won this fight. most rounds were very close but pacs aggressiveness won him more of those close rounds. marco fought a very competitive fight against one of the top p4p fighters in the sport after 19 years of boxing, so yes he did make a great showing of himself.

[Stinky gloves]

MAB had big chance to KO PAC today, he managed to not do this.
He was too static, just jabbing and coutering from time to time.
PAc was wobbed a few times and it was obvious if MAB come with some
serious exchanges then sooner or later he would knock him down or out.
MAB should retire with one or two easier fights, he do not longer have it ... :(

[psychopath]

i havent seen the fight but going by some of the threads here...it looks like manny won a wide UD(?)

...but i think its OK to say that MOST of us expected Pac to beat Barrera and some even thought that he would just blow him away but i guess that wasnt the case...so to all other barrera fans like me...with Barrera going the full 12 rds, did he make a good account of himself? (and pls enough of this he was a pussy & shit...you think you can stand in the ring with pac for 12 rds?)

Yes he did. He came in well prepared but it's just not enough to win the fight. MAB boxed and countered well, reason why the fight lasted the full route, but he was out gunned and outhit 4 to 1 in punches.

[hmi]

I didn't see MAB box so much. How can he win? Pac was the aggressor from the opening bell until the closing. Pac did get stunned in the 11th round. Though it came after the referee was separating them. Now that's a dirty fighter.

[Stickandmove]

MAB boxed beautifully considering his age - his reflexes, speed and movement were top notch and his tactics were spot on. We all knew that he'd probably get KO'ed if he went to war with PAC so he made the right decision to box.

MAB fought the right fight, and he made it difficult for PAC to get in to the groove. This was about the best that MAB could do at this stage of his career - not bad against the consensus #2 P4P fighter in the world. He added to his legacy with this performance. If he was younger and fresher and able to throw more punches, he may have pulled it off.

I'm surprised by all the hate!

[knockout]

I'm surprised by all the hate!You shoud'nt be people on the meesage broads Are like that.

[RafaelGonzal]

Really? Do the people who think that Pac won think it was so amazingly one-sided that it must be insane to think Barerra won?

Shit dude, I must be in bizarro world. Maybe the fact that Manny didn't totally dominate him like I thought he would slightly biased my opinion, but I'm pretty sure Barerra boxed pretty well...

but he clearly lost is my point you dont get extra points for just hanging in there and not getting brutalized.

[Soloth]

i thought i was only one

I agree..had barerra by a point

[hitman_hatton1]

Some of you guys must of watched a completely different fight, because I saw Barrera win like or two rounds. The rest was your typical Pacquaio fight: right hand jabs and the straight left down the middle. Barrera did a job at actually avoiding some of those this time, but he didn't do anything back.

i thought barrera shaded a couple of the early rds.

deffo won one of the middle rds and maybe shaded or drew another one.

barrera won 3 or 4 rds i thought.

only giving him 2 rds was a bit harsh i felt. :roll:

[hitman_hatton1]

you don't know how to score a fight

yeah yeah whatever.

there were some debateable rds in there.

ffs i agree pac won the fight quite wide.

just not frigging 10 rds to 2. :patsch

[PH|LLA]

he was clearly up against the better fighter, but did well to last as long as he did and from time to time fired off some beautiful shots but it just wasn't enough against Pac

[Warfist]

No he did not. Based on that last "performance" I can't exactly say my heart is broken now that he has retired.

[brooklyn1550]

His performance in itself wasn't terribly impressive, but the fact that he lasted the distance was. Certainly not the type of performance Marco wanted to end his career with.

[Morrissey]

i havent seen the fight but going by some of the threads here...it looks like manny won a wide UD(?)

...but i think its OK to say that MOST of us expected Pac to beat Barrera and some even thought that he would just blow him away but i guess that wasnt the case...so to all other barrera fans like me...with Barrera going the full 12 rds, did he make a good account of himself? (and pls enough of this he was a pussy & shit...you think you can stand in the ring with pac for 12 rds?)

For a fighter his caliber, no.

But in terms of surviving the onslaught of Pac, he did very well.

[theHawtness]

I actually thought Barerra won a razor thin decision.
blind.

[blackstrider]

You're the man.....now get lost!

[blackstrider]

Who are you talking to noob?

Im talking to you journeyman! just go on to your journey u might see and discover the difference between reality and imagination.

if u saw mab won 8-4 rnds VS PAC I should say dnt watch boxing when ur hungry.

[theunderdog]

MAB looked really good and I think he's still got something left in the tank. IMO PAC is the one who looked clumsy at times and frustrated when MAB began boxing circles around him. I had MAB winning 8 rounds to 4.

which 8 rounds were these? if you can find a single soul here at ESB who will agree with you, consider it an accomplishment. but for starters, please enumerate the rounds that you think mab won

[theunderdog]

His performance in itself wasn't terribly impressive, but the fact that he lasted the distance was. Certainly not the type of performance Marco wanted to end his career with.

true. EM last two fights were losses but i think if they are both retired right now, i remember EM last hurrah more than mab's. EM went down swinging against pac and arguably was robbed of a win against a young champ at 135 in david diaz. while mab lost to jmm, a fight that could have been a lost closer if mab wasn't so hot-headed then lost to pac via wide UD with mab not wanting to exchange.

but still, i have the utmost respect for mab and what he accomplished through the years

[mbandit]

which 8 rounds were these? if you can find a single soul here at ESB who will agree with you, consider it an accomplishment. but for starters, please enumerate the rounds that you think mab won
I honestly could see the bout going either way.

[blackstrider]

what? English please ya damn sea donkey.

i am not ashamed to speak "broken english" or whatever u call it.
at least iam not a faggot bias like u. by the way i am not american so i dnt care if my english does not pass ur criteria. I can see u r pure hater! and a dumb ass nutsucker!

Be good man,.dnt be so biased

[theunderdog]

I honestly could see the bout going either way.
8 rounds to 4 in mab's favor? are you serious?

ok, after seeing your previous post, i now understand why you can see that fight going either way. check the stats, pucnhes thrown, punches landed, aggresiveness, power shots. pac got the better in ALL aspects. how can you say that mab could have won that fight. i'd say giving him 4 rounds was already pushing it, plus the deduction which means that a 6-6 fight would still mean pac would win. so mab won 7 rounds against pac? you're dreaming. enumerate the 7 rounds that mab won in you opinion

[TanstA]

pac def won that fight because barrera didnt have the speed he once had to outbox pac. but he did make pac fight his fight.

[LeonardLeroy]

I think Pacquiao was content with playing Barrera's game. I think he wanted to show he could outbox Barrera. And for the most part he did. He didn't open up until the later rounds, and when he did he truly fucked Barrera up, to which Barrera responded with the hit on the break.

[divac]

I think Pacquiao was content with playing Barrera's game. I think he wanted to show he could outbox Barrera. And for the most part he did. He didn't open up until the later rounds, and when he did he truly fucked Barrera up, to which Barrera responded with the hit on the break.

Had Pac attacked as he normally does, it would have given MAB a better chance in his counter attack mode.

Pac actually fought a very smart fight, knowing that he was faster and quicker to get his shots off from distance, and could beat MAB to the punch fighting at distance.
A fighter who is constantly on the attack, leaves himself wide open to get countered and hit more often.

If Pac fights JMM next, its going to be interesting to see if he uses the same approach vs Marquez.
MAB throws a good jab moving away and countering from distance, but JMM is alot better than MAB in using his legs to manuever himself around the ring to set up the right angles to which to throw the shots he wants to get off.
Marquez has a wider repertoire of punches as well in which Pac will have more than a half ass jab to contend with.

Did you guys see Pac jump up and down and pound his gloves in joy when MAB attacked him to the ropes in one of those earlier rounds???
.....since PAC did'nt attack MAB with abandon, MAB needed to have bursts like that to make PAC go into attack mode......once PAC was in attack mode, then MAB would have had a more aggressive Pac attacking and setting up more opportunities for himself off the counter.

JMM already played that game with MAB, since MAB was'nt in attack mode vs him, Marquez attacked MAB and forced him to respond in kind.
.....sometimes a counterpuncher has to attack to force the other to lose his head and do the same, thus getting him to fight the way he'd like for him too.

I can only shake my head in disbelief that there are actual fans in this forum who thought the Pac-MAB rematch was close!:-(

[LeonardLeroy]

Agreed.

edit: Also, the commentating was so biased against Pacquiao earlier on, it was annoying. Pacquiao's choice to box was viewed as him being controlled.

[theunderdog]

what is up with the fools on this thread? one claims that mab won 8 rounds to 4 and the other claimed that it could have gone either way (not that Mab needs 7 rounds for it to go his way because of the deduction) but then when i ask them to enumerate the rounds that Mab won, they dissapear. damnit. i hate people who can't back their statements up.

how did you score that fight DIVAC? i think the 118-109 scores were spot on. i gave mab the 2nd and 3rd rounds. thought there were 2 close rounds that could have gone MAb's way, still, giving him four rounds was the absolute maximum

[theunderdog]

Agreed.

edit: Also, the commentating was so biased against Pacquiao earlier on, it was annoying. Pacquiao's choice to box was viewed as him being controlled.

you really can't expect that dude from saved by the bell to be fair. he is hispanic and favors fellow hispanic fighters. up until the interview he was asking mab if he was shocked by the wide margin for pac but even mab thought the scores were acceptable and that lasting 12 rounds was already an accomplishment.

he was also asking pac why he was doing the sign of the cross and banging his gloves so often. what the hell does that have to do with anything?

[LeonardLeroy]

I thought it was a wash. And I enjoyed the hell out of the fight because it was so interesting to see Pacquiao box.

My uncles didn't though. Shut the fuck up, tito.

edit: I was talking about the HBO Commentators. Merchant's card for the first 5 rounds was ridiculous, and they were so content to say that barrera is fighting the right fight, but he lacked the physical attributes to pull it off.

[divac]

what is up with the fools on this thread? one claims that mab won 8 rounds to 4 and the other claimed that it could have gone either way (not that Mab needs 7 rounds for it to go his way because of the deduction) but then when i ask them to enumerate the rounds that Mab won, they dissapear. damnit. i hate people who can't back their statements up.

how did you score that fight DIVAC? i think the 118-109 scores were spot on. i gave mab the 2nd and 3rd rounds. thought there were 2 close rounds that could have gone MAb's way, still, giving him four rounds was the absolute maximum

I actually thought MAB was in the fight for the first 6 rounds......

I gave MAB rounds 1, 5, and 6, and the rest of the rounds went to Pac.

With the point deduction for MAB hitting Pac on the break, I had it 9 rounds to 3 or 117-110 Manny Pac!

[theunderdog]

I actually thought MAB was in the fight for the first 6 rounds......

I gave MAB rounds 1, 5, and 6, and the rest of the rounds went to Pac.

With the point deduction for MAB hitting Pac on the break, I had it 9 rounds to 3 or 117-110 Manny Pac!
okay, i scored it 118-109. same as the two judges and gave rounds 3 and 5 to MAB. i haven't seen the official scorecards so i don't know what rounds were given to MAB. granting that we give MAB rounds 1, 3, 5, and 6, (the rounds we gave to MAB combined) it will still be a clear 8 to 4 win for pac or a 116-111. the 3rd judge scored it 115-112 for pac so i'm guessing he scored the 2nd round for mab too, it was the closest round among those we both think were won by pac

so we could agree that the people here that thought it could have gone either way are mistaked and the person had it 8 to 4 for mab just is not capable of scoring a boxing match right?

[pejevan]

i thought barrera shaded a couple of the early rds.

deffo won one of the middle rds and maybe shaded or drew another one.

barrera won 3 or 4 rds i thought.

only giving him 2 rds was a bit harsh i felt. :roll:

YAHOO SPORTS GAVE HIM ONLY one (1) ROUND.

Here is the RBR analysis, : [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Chert]

i gave barrera 3 rounds.

[pejevan]

I can only shake my head in disbelief that there are actual fans in this forum who thought the Pac-MAB rematch was close!:-(


That is nothing. Worst are those that believed that MAB won.

[theunderdog]

Mario Lopez was commentating on an HBO telecast?:huh


i read my post again and foound nothing about him commentating on HBO. HBO is not the only telecast.

why don't you answer my question on what 8 rounds you gave to MAB

[charlievint]

MAB did well...but he was completely outclassed in terms of talent! He did however prove why he is also known as a highly SKILLED boxer out of Mexico b/c he was BOXING his ass off....He just couldn't deal with the speed, power and pressure that PAC unleashed. It wasn't that close at all but MAB did A LOT better than I expected...he also faught a competely different way than I thought he would b/c this was his last fight. MAB probably grabbed 4 rounds at most!

[charlievint]

Had Pac attacked as he normally does, it would have given MAB a better chance in his counter attack mode.

Pac actually fought a very smart fight, knowing that he was faster and quicker to get his shots off from distance, and could beat MAB to the punch fighting at distance.
A fighter who is constantly on the attack, leaves himself wide open to get countered and hit more often.

If Pac fights JMM next, its going to be interesting to see if he uses the same approach vs Marquez.
MAB throws a good jab moving away and countering from distance, but JMM is alot better than MAB in using his legs to manuever himself around the ring to set up the right angles to which to throw the shots he wants to get off.
Marquez has a wider repertoire of punches as well in which Pac will have more than a half ass jab to contend with.

Did you guys see Pac jump up and down and pound his gloves in joy when MAB attacked him to the ropes in one of those earlier rounds???
.....since PAC did'nt attack MAB with abandon, MAB needed to have bursts like that to make PAC go into attack mode......once PAC was in attack mode, then MAB would have had a more aggressive Pac attacking and setting up more opportunities for himself off the counter.

JMM already played that game with MAB, since MAB was'nt in attack mode vs him, Marquez attacked MAB and forced him to respond in kind.
.....sometimes a counterpuncher has to attack to force the other to lose his head and do the same, thus getting him to fight the way he'd like for him too.

I can only shake my head in disbelief that there are actual fans in this forum who thought the Pac-MAB rematch was close!:-(

Great post! Agreed...But MAB did impress me b/c he did fight an intelligent fight as well. He just couldn't deal with the speed, power and intelligent pressure Pac showed.

[warrior85]

yeah definetly,i had him winning by 2rnds although i didnt see rnd 11.

[Chert]

mab did what he had to do by following the "blueprint". but pac showed new-found patience in his offense, applied intelligent pressure and had improved D.

[Spitfire7]

I gave MAB 4 rnds. and I was generous to give him the close ones in that.

Did Barrera gave a good account of himself? Yes and No.

For remaining standing after 12 with Pac, yes.

For not living up to the lofty standards of Mexican machismo, and the excellence he had himself set in his 18yr legacy, no. Hell, that vaunted "machismo" had gotten a sissified ring to me by the way he fought his supposed swansong...how unlike Morales.

And that cheapshot and the ambiguous doubletalk postfight were defo a demerit to an otherwise illustrious career, for me that is...

[Spitfire7]

The Card should've been dubbed instead of "Will to Win" as "Will to Survive.":yep

[theunderdog]

yeah definetly,i had him winning by 2rnds although i didnt see rnd 11.

hmmm let's see,

so you had mab winning by two without seeing the 11th round

so you watched a total of 11 rounds. did you score some rounds even?

please enumerate which rounds you gave to pac and mab, respectively. there have been 5 people who claimed that either mab won or it could have gone either way but so far, none of them had the guts to back their claim up. i hope you post yours.

though i think it is fishy that you did not see the 11th rounds, which was pac's best round, i want to see ho you scored each round so we can discuss.

thanks and i'll be waiting

[mad_takamura]

for me pac won rnds:1,6-12
mab only won rnds:2-5

[divac]

mab did what he had to do by following the "blueprint". but pac showed new-found patience in his offense, applied intelligent pressure and had improved D.


I agree that Pac was exellent in fighting within himself and controlled.

However, the one important thing that JMM and Morales were able to establish in their victories over Pac, is the right hand, both in leading and off the counter.

MAB's right hand just is'nt up to par with JMM's and Morales, so Instead, he tried controlling Pac with the left jab.

The reason why the right hand lead or counter works perfectly vs Pac, is that when you throw it, the follow through takes you into Pac's right side away from his much more potent left.


As you saw, in this fight with MAB, Pac was shooting his own jab or hook over MAB's jab, and following it up with the left.
That left started catching MAB hard and cleanly when the fight went past the midway point.
It is at this point that MAB realized that he was'nt going to outbox Pac with his jab, and he essentially turned it down a notch and went into preservation mode.


The key is to shoot hard right hands at Pac and make him want to go into his natural slugging mode.
If you suceed at landing that hard right, believe me, Pac is going to want to respond with power in kind, and he is going to expose himself by opening up to land his much more potent left......in other words, he's going to go back to what comes natural to him, lunging with the left!
I would personally be shocked if Pac could even begin to compete technically with JMM.
JMM's repertoire and angles in which he's able to shoot on the counter is so much better than MAB's
With MAB, its basically a jab or left hook counter, with basically at the same angle.
......JMM is able to use both hands and varies the angles in which he throws his shots....jabs, hooks, and he's one of the best at landing the uppercut.
......nonetheless, I'm dieing to see how effective Pac could be if he got technical as he did with MAB.:yep


For Christ sake, bring on the JMM-Pac rematch!:deal

[divac]

for me pac won rnds:1,6-12
mab only won rnds:2-5


:huh You had MAB up 5 rounds to 1 at the midway point?:huh

[theunderdog]

:huh You had MAB up 5 rounds to 1 at the midway point?:huh

he probably did not score it round for round during the fight. i think he came up with this before he typed it

[markbrooklyn]

NO.. He did not make a good account of himself at all. He just fought not to get knocked out. He didn't fight to win the fight. It was kinda like watching Roy Jones Jr vs Antonio Tarver III. What a waste of 50 bucks! :(

[mad_takamura]

:huh You had MAB up 5 rounds to 1 at the midway point?:huh wrong that was 3 rounds (i forgot to type round 4 for pac too.) mab got 2,3,and 5. only.

[PATSYS]

i havent seen the fight but going by some of the threads here...it looks like manny won a wide UD(?)

...but i think its OK to say that MOST of us expected Pac to beat Barrera and some even thought that he would just blow him away but i guess that wasnt the case...so to all other barrera fans like me...with Barrera going the full 12 rds, did he make a good account of himself? (and pls enough of this he was a pussy & shit...you think you can stand in the ring with pac for 12 rds?)

If were expecting that Pac would destroy MAB, then you could say yes MAB made a good account of himself.

But if you were expecting MAB to show his mexican warrior spirit, then no he didn't.

[divac]

Pac fought JMM and Em back to back in 2004-5, this was the version of Pac who threw nothing but 1-2's who believed it was enough to overwhelm and KO opponents. JMM and MAB shoulda taken their rematches during that time becuase although exciting, Pac was very predictable. MAB would've had a great chance to beat him then. So would JMM. I just doubt getting hit by a straight right would make Pac revert back to 2004-5.

In terms of his left, the main difference now is that he sets it up, and its no longer a "gimme" countering opportunity. I will concede that Pac is no where near JMM's technical level. But if they were to box, this controlled version of Pac has a higher probability of landing first. Handspeed is important here. If Pac fought a smart fight, he would just keep doing this until he forces JMM to open up.....then that my friend, plays into Pac's strength. I guess, this fight is dependent on who forces who to do what they want.

BTW-Pac always lunges with his left, its just back in 2004-5, it was telegraphed and smart fighters like JMM and EM picked up on it, made Pac miss and countered him. Pac made those mistakes over and over again. Those 2 fights were built on that strategy---the schooling of Pac so to speak.

I think Pac did his homework, and like you I can't wait for the JMM rematch.

I'll agree that Pac has gotten better technically.
Against MAB this time around, Pac rarely was off balance after he punched.

One thing to take note however, is that with this version of Pac fighting more controlled, comes less power.
Pac landed some clean shots on MAB, and not once did MAB buckle or seemed hurt.

The KO punching Pac would often find himself totally out of position after he missed a punch because of the leverage and torque he created to land power.

You guys love this version who is more controlled????
You most likely are not going to see any KO's!

To that I say, bring on the controlled version vs JMM, I'd love for him to try and match technical skills vs the MASTER!!!:deal :yep

[nighthunter]

I actually thought Barerra won a razor thin decision.

:patsch

[mad_takamura]

I'll agree that Pac has gotten better technically.
Against MAB this time around, Pac rarely was off balance after he punched. he was off balance whenever he tried to jab because mab was pulling away and pac was trying hard to get the range and that was on the early rounds until round 6 when pac finally was on range. are you watching closely the fight? :huh
Pac landed some clean shots on MAB, and not once did MAB buckle or seemed hurt. wow, you might be closing your eyes when pac landed a straight left to mab. that was rnd. 11. are you watching it or completely bias?
rnd.12 mab was stumbling and off-balance, good thing pac did not follow that up. or elso mab would have been ko. it was a reverse attitude of mab hitting pac dirty in 11. :bart

You guys love this version who is more controlled????You most likely are not going to see any KO's!
and when we like to see him win with ko's you will all say that he is once again 1-dimensional. yeah right. :hi:

[divac]

he was off balance whenever he tried to jab because mab was pulling away and pac was trying hard to get the range and that was on the early rounds until round 6 when pac finally was on range. are you watching closely the fight? :huh
wow, you might be closing your eyes when pac landed a straight left to mab. that was rnd. 11. are you watching it or completely bias?
rnd.12 mab was stumbling and off-balance, good thing pac did not follow that up. or elso mab would have been ko. it was a reverse attitude of mab hitting pac dirty in 11. :bart

and when we like to see him win with ko's you will all say that he is once again 1-dimensional. yeah right. :hi:


I dont think you understood my post MT. By fighting MAB the controlled way that Pac did, it gave MAB less of a chance to win because MAB wanted to be backpedaling and in counter mode the entire fight......Pac did'nt let him by being controlled and not attacking in abandon mode.
All I'm saying is that the controlled version of Pac still lands good and hard, but he just does'nt land with the same power that the reckless version of Pac did.
It's only natural that the more force you create, the more you are likely to fall offbalance if you are to miss.

The tactics that Pac pulled off vs MAB will be much harder to pull off against JMM because Marquez is a bit quicker than MAB, and he's alot better in manuevering the ring to gain position with his feet.......
......adding to that, JMM has by far better stamina than MAB.
Certainly JMM will not find himself downshifting in the second half of the fight and head into survival mode.

Against Marquez, Pac will most likely find himself behind on the cards and will be forced to get overly aggressive and try to KO JMM......at this point JMM has a field day countering Pac, but at the same time, it will imo be Pac's best chance to win via the KO!

[mad_takamura]

.at this point JMM has a field day countering Pac, but at the same time, it will imo be Pac's best chance to win via the KO!
you're right on that one. i'm really having headaches on thinking how pac would try to beat jmm: if the socks myth is no fluke. :nono
however, i also think that pac would really try to turn that one ina a brawl fest hoping that he could ko jmm, if jmm is succesful in countering pac's controlled style or when pac gets agitated coz he knows he is being lured to jmm's game.

[divac]

you're right on that one. i'm really having headaches on thinking how pac would try to beat jmm: if the socks myth is no fluke. :nono
however, i also think that pac would really try to turn that one ina a brawl fest hoping that he could ko jmm, if jmm is succesful in countering pac's controlled style or when pac gets agitated coz he knows he is being lured to jmm's game.

Exactly MT, who is going to make the other to be forced to fight the way they want them to fight????

Its not as simple as ABC.....at first glance we can say that a technically better version than the Pac of a few years ago will have a better chance vs Marquez.......
.....that may or may not be true, it could very easily be that JMM is so superior technically that Pac fighting a more controlled fight will give Pac less of a chance to win.
Thats why this rematch has to happen!:yep


Now watch JMM get old overnight and lose to Rocky Juarez in his next fight.... :nut
:blood God forbid!:blood

[mad_takamura]

Exactly MT, who is going to make the other to be forced to fight the way they want them to fight????

Its not as simple as ABC.....at first glance we can say that a technically better version than the Pac of a few years ago will have a better chance vs Marquez.......
.....that may or may not be true, it could very easily be that JMM is so superior technically that Pac fighting a more controlled fight will give Pac less of a chance to win.
Thats why this rematch has to happen!:yep


Now watch JMM get old overnight and lose to Rocky Juarez in his next fight.... :nut
:blood God forbid!:blood the only way that i can see a good fight for manny is to brawl jmm, stupid as it may sounds. if he tried to box jmm or when he too waited for jmm, jmm will be the first one to make the move and initiate pac because he would unleash flurries on him coz i think he knows jmm would w8 for him to make the first move. :think

[theunderdog]

Exactly MT, who is going to make the other to be forced to fight the way they want them to fight????

Its not as simple as ABC.....at first glance we can say that a technically better version than the Pac of a few years ago will have a better chance vs Marquez.......
.....that may or may not be true, it could very easily be that JMM is so superior technically that Pac fighting a more controlled fight will give Pac less of a chance to win.
Thats why this rematch has to happen!:yep


Now watch JMM get old overnight and lose to Rocky Juarez in his next fight.... :nut
:blood God forbid!:blood


man. if jmm loses to juarez, i'll be blaming you for junxing it. i'm not at all interested in a pac-juarez match which is very likely should jmm slip.

[mad_takamura]

that's why i hope jmm loses to juarez..:scaredas:
no i'm just kidding...:D

[divac]

the only way that i can see a good fight for manny is to brawl jmm, stupid as it may sounds. if he tried to box jmm or when he too waited for jmm, jmm will be the first one to make the move and initiate pac because he would unleash flurries on him coz i think he knows jmm would w8 for him to make the first move. :think

I too think eventually Pac has to bring it and go hard at JMM.
Marquez is just too experienced, and to this day, unlike Morales and MAB, JMM has'nt shown any lack of stamina.
I think its safe to say that JMM can still fight 3 minutes of every round, something MAB and Morales just cant do nowdays.

[theunderdog]

pac should not try to box jmm. there's no chance he'd win. jmm is just too smart. pac should go out smoking like he did the first time and hope that jmm stays down after the intial blitz. if not, pac will be in for a long night again.

[divac]

man. if jmm loses to juarez, i'll be blaming you for junxing it. i'm not at all interested in a pac-juarez match which is very likely should jmm slip.

I was thinking the other way when I wrote my post.
I was thinking here we are talking about a JMM-Pac fight coming to realization, as if Rocky Juarez is a forgone conclusion.

I got to say that on paper, the Juarez fight should'nt be that much of a problem for Marquez, but having said that.....Juarez is no pushover and will probably be in the best shape of his life. Marquez still has to get himself in great shape and go out and execute.

Thank God, Marquez has a diciplined trainer in Nacho Beristein that dots his i's and crosses his t's!
.....so Marquez looking past Juarez and to a Pac fight are less likely with Beristein in his corner!

[The Kurgan]

He chose to live on his knees rather than die on his feet. Or, rather, he chose to take it easy on his feet rather than take a chance of getting laid out on his back.

It was sort of like Holmes vs Holyfield or Roy Jones Jnr. vs Tarver III: an old champion preferring to win a few rounds and not get hit too much rather than try to actually win. In many ways, it would have been better to see Barrera go out on his shield rather than holding and running in fear of Pac-Man.

[UKITAZ]

I thought it was close, where the judges got such a big margin from i dont know .... so to answer your question, yes, he gave a good account of himself.

[divac]

He chose to live on his knees rather than die on his feet. Or, rather, he chose to take it easy on his feet rather than take a chance of getting laid out on his back.

It was sort of like Holmes vs Holyfield or Roy Jones Jnr. vs Tarver III: an old champion preferring to win a few rounds and not get hit too much rather than try to actually win. In many ways, it would have been better to see Barrera go out on his shield rather than holding and running in fear of Pac-Man.I agree, I think there's something to be admired by a fighter who goes out on his shield, making his conqueror have to earn it and not just handed to him!

[theunderdog]

I thought it was close, where the judges got such a big margin from i dont know .... so to answer your question, yes, he gave a good account of himself.

most posters here gave mab 2 to 4 rounds. with two of those could have gone either way so the 10-2 for pac isn't really something to complain about. even MAB didn't say anything about the scoring

[mad_takamura]

I agree, I think there's something to be admired by a fighter who goes out on his shield, making his conqueror have to earn it and not just handed to him! call it pride. if there was ever a thing called "running with machismo" mab shoowed it that night.

[The Kurgan]

I agree, I think there's something to be admired by a fighter who goes out on his shield, making his conqueror have to earn it and not just handed to him!

I suppose, to continue the Holyfield-orientated examples, George Foreman against Holyfield was an example of a veteran losing with his pride intact. No-one could fault Foreman's courage or toughness that night. Chris Eubank's last hurrahs against Carl Thompson were also proud performances that I'm sure Eubank doesn't regret. Will Barrera regret his fight against Pacquiao? I'm sure of it.

call it pride. if there was ever a thing called "running with machismo" mab shoowed it that night.

I didn't see any machismo from Barrera, or any pride. He was more Larry Holmes than George Foreman that night: not once did he take the attitude that "Either he loses or he goes through hell."

[mad_takamura]

I suppose, to continue the Holyfield-orientated examples, George Foreman against Holyfield was an example of a veteran losing with his pride intact. No-one could fault Foreman's courage or toughness that night. Chris Eubank's last hurrahs against Carl Thompson were also proud performances that I'm sure Eubank doesn't regret. Will Barrera regret his fight against Pacquiao? I'm sure of it.



I didn't see any machismo from Barrera, or any pride. He was more Larry Holmes than George Foreman that night: not once did he take the attitude that "Either he loses or he goes through hell." what i mean of "running with machismo" is that he runs too much in the ring and not engaging too much. i then linked it to divac's statement that mab did not let pac" destroy him that much" by pulling off too much, boxing off too much or running away. that's why there is machismo in a way there, as he only planned to survive in the latter rounds coz his pride did not want himself 2 be ktfo again by pac....

[The Kurgan]

what i mean of "running with machismo" is that he runs too much in the ring and not engaging too much. i then linked it to divac's statement that mab did not let pac" destroy him that much" by pulling off too much, boxing off too much or running away. that's why there is machismo in a way there, as he only planned to survive in the latter rounds coz his pride did not want himself 2 be ktfo again by pac....

Avoiding getting ktfo by not trying to win is in no way macho. Now, if he'd jumped on Pac from the start, used lateral movement, mixed in some boxing, and just gone all out to try and disrupt Pac's rhythm, THAT'D be what I'd call "running with machismo".

There's nothing proud about doing a Tony Tucker (winning a few rounds, but generally just trying to go the distance against a superior opponent). There's a lot of pride in doing a Chris Eubank: when outmatched, doing everything you can to win and be willing to go through inhuman pain to try and win. That way, you either win a historic victory or go out with people cheering your name.

Let's face it: Barrera may as well have not fought Pacquiao. At BEST, it did nothing for his legacy, and at worst, it hampered it a bit.

[Imperial1]

Avoiding getting ktfo by not trying to win is in no way macho. Now, if he'd jumped on Pac from the start, used lateral movement, mixed in some boxing, and just gone all out to try and disrupt Pac's rhythm, THAT'D be what I'd call "running with machismo".

There's nothing proud about doing a Tony Tucker (winning a few rounds, but generally just trying to go the distance against a superior opponent). There's a lot of pride in doing a Chris Eubank: when outmatched, doing everything you can to win and be willing to go through inhuman pain to try and win. That way, you either win a historic victory or go out with people cheering your name.

Let's face it: Barrera may as well have not fought Pacquiao. At BEST, it did nothing for his legacy, and at worst, it hampered it a bit.

Here is what I don't get ,in order for MAB to get respect he should of just brawled with the much younger and stronger fighter ?I'm sure glad some of you don't work the corners of some of these fighters .But here is another thing I don't get JT just brawled with Pavlik and got Knocked out the 1st thing I read is that he was exposed !

I love it how peopele can scritinize a fighter who' s been in classic wars and is a lock for the hof but now his legacy is a little tarnished becuase he tried to out box a guy who most people can't out brawl !! No wonder boxing as a whole will never get the real respect it deserves becuase boxing fans are flip floppers ..:think

[divac]

Here is what I don't get ,in order for MAB to get respect he should of just brawled with the much younger and stronger fighter ?I'm sure glad some of you don't work the corners of some of these fighters .But here is another thing I don't get JT just brawled with Pavlik and got Knocked out the 1st thing I read is that he was exposed !

I love it how peopele can scritinize a fighter who' s been in classic wars and is a lock for the hof but now his legacy is a little tarnished becuase he tried to out box a guy who most people can't out brawl !! No wonder boxing as a whole will never get the real respect it deserves becuase boxing fans are flip floppers ..:think

If you dont get it, maybe you dont want to get it Imperial......

......what MAB did for the first 6 rounds was fine, he moved away from Pac, but also in various instances planted his feet and actually went foward to disrupt Pac, then went on to moving away and away from Pac's left.
The spurts of planting his feet and forcing Pac to retreat, was exactly MAB trying to win the round.
You have to show effective punching in a round to merit the round.
MAB at the very least did that through the first half of the fight.

The second half saw Pac solve what MAB was trying to do, he started hitting MAB cleaner and harder, and Barrera for his part wanted none of it and did'nt even try to change the course of which Pac had changed.

......once MAB tasted some clean hard shots from Pac, MAB's burst of energy that he had shown through the first 6 rounds seized, he essentially quit at that point trying to win the fight.

I cant put it any more bluntly except to say that there was a point early in the second half of the fight that MAB just outright and quit!


Now that I have had time to really think about it, yes, Marco Antonio Barrera did exactly that.......He QUIT!!!!!!!

[The Kurgan]

Here is what I don't get ,in order for MAB to get respect he should of just brawled with the much younger and stronger fighter ?I'm sure glad some of you don't work the corners of some of these fighters .

All I expected was for MAB to be MAB. He disappointed me in that respect.

But here is another thing I don't get JT just brawled with Pavlik and got Knocked out the 1st thing I read is that he was exposed !

That's because this site is full of hypocrites. I never criticised Taylor for trading; in fact, I felt he needed to pucker up for once and take the fight to Pavlik to win. As with Barrera, his only shot was to try to knock Pavlik out.

I love it how peopele can scritinize a fighter who' s been in classic wars and is a lock for the hof but now his legacy is a little tarnished becuase he tried to out box a guy who most people can't out brawl !! No wonder boxing as a whole will never get the real respect it deserves becuase boxing fans are flip floppers ..:think

I often get into debates with "boxing fans". I always win too.

[Ramshall1]

at a point in the second half of the fight MAB had to know he was well behind on points and should have gone for broke . . . he ran against Juarez in the rematch and he went out in maybe his last fight with a wimper. Kinda sad, but having said that if I had a vote he would still be a first ballot HOF'er for obvious reasons.

[divac]

at a point in the second half of the fight MAB had to know he was well behind on points and should have gone for broke . . . he ran against Juarez in the rematch and he went out in maybe his last fight with a wimper. Kinda sad, but having said that if I had a vote he would still be a first ballot HOF'er for obvious reasons.

Without a doubt Marco is a first ballot HOF'er!

I wont dare hold this performance against him after all the quality performances he gave out.

In a way I can understand MAB's psyche for this fight and the way he preffered to survive after the beating he took a few years back against Pac.
......but facts are facts, and we should tell it like it is. MAB did'nt fight a great fight or did just great just to go the distance.
The facts are that he let the memory of his past fight dictate his effort in this fight, and as a result, did'nt give a full Marco Antonio Barrera effort.
Its as plain as day to see!


.....but believe me, I'm not going to remember MAB for his last fight with Pac.
No question, in the future when the name Barrera is mentioned, the first thing that will pop into my head is his classic trilogy with Morales.
Nothing will ever erase the memory of those great fights!

[chimba]

Ummm no, the best way for Pac to beat JMM is the one similar to the last MAB fight. Stick the jab, dart in and out, mix it up with that straight left and circle thing that he does so well. A shot here, a shot there. Outland JMM. Imma go back to handspeed issue. U don't have to be the best technical fighter to land the jab first. U just have to be faster. Pac WILL get it off before JMM. In the MAB fight I think Pac outjabbed MAB 2-1 while still being the aggressor. Don't get me wrong though, if there's an opportunity to unload---unload with reckless abandon. Lets say JMM gets caught in a corner; I would call that an opportunity to unload, let's just call those "controlled outbursts".

The goal is to win rounds, outland JMM while still being the aggressor. U see, JMM won't brawl. He'll be patient and wait for Pac to throw but if Pac stays disciplined and stick and jab, one shot at a time....this severely limits JMM's chance to connect and to also look good in front of the judges. Coz lets face it, the aggressor always looks better in front of the judges, unless he's being countered mercilessly ala Pac-Jmm 1.

So the goal is to bait him to brawl. U win enough rounds by stickin the jab, mixing it up with a right hook or a left--ONE SHOT AT A TIME, in all likelihood Pac will build up a lead. This will force JMM to take chances. In which case, I'd put my money on Pac to win the exchanges like he usually does. In effect, Pac is imposing his will and forcing JMM to fight his fight....not the other way around.

This is Pac's "blueprint" against technical fighters.

Youre good for a newbie..but I did call a PAC by wide UD and also the first to come out that PAC was a more formidable fighter now when everyone was very disappointed after the fight

[chimba]

Damn Chimba...u got like 1000 posts. Im not trying to compete with you, not just yet.You'll soon larn that 1200 post aint nothing in this forum..look around kid..some have passed the 10,000 mark. and thats in a month:lol:

[divac]

Ummm no, the best way for Pac to beat JMM is the one similar to the last MAB fight. Stick the jab, dart in and out, mix it up with that straight left and circle thing that he does so well. A shot here, a shot there. Outland JMM. Imma go back to handspeed issue. U don't have to be the best technical fighter to land the jab first. U just have to be faster. Pac WILL get it off before JMM. In the MAB fight I think Pac outjabbed MAB 2-1 while still being the aggressor. Don't get me wrong though, if there's an opportunity to unload---unload with reckless abandon. Lets say JMM gets caught in a corner; I would call that an opportunity to unload, let's just call those "controlled outbursts".

The goal is to win rounds, outland JMM while still being the aggressor. U see, JMM won't brawl. He'll be patient and wait for Pac to throw but if Pac stays disciplined and stick and jab, one shot at a time....this severely limits JMM's chance to connect and to also look good in front of the judges. Coz lets face it, the aggressor always looks better in front of the judges, unless he's being countered mercilessly ala Pac-Jmm 1.

So the goal is to bait him to brawl. U win enough rounds by stickin the jab, mixing it up with a right hook or a left--ONE SHOT AT A TIME, in all likelihood Pac will build up a lead. This will force JMM to take chances. In which case, I'd put my money on Pac to win the exchanges like he usually does. In effect, Pac is imposing his will and forcing JMM to fight his fight....not the other way around.

This is Pac's "blueprint" against technical fighters.

Thats not a bad blueprint for Pac to use......but its one that takes alot of dicipline to actually get accomplished.
In other words, its easier said than done.

One thing I will guarantee you is that JMM wont be afraid to unleach hard counters.
Pac throwing a right jab is going to open up his side for JMM to dig the hook to the body.
I believe Marquez would welcome Pac throwing the jab at him.
....in that instance it plays to JMM's strengths and away from Pacs....
....how so you say?
Well, JMM would try to dip to his left to slip Pac's right jab, while doing that JMM with that dip puts himself in position to land his left hook to the body, all the while that same dip to the left takes him away from Pac's best punch,his power left.

The problem for Pac fighting that diciplined type style is that it's going to be difficult to match JMM's wits because JMM has been doing it for such a long time, that it just comes as natural as walking to him.

Its hard to fathom Pac being able to outbox such a superior boxer.....
Marquez imo, in whatever Pac does, willl be one step ahead in the thinking dept while they box, and sooner or later, Pac is going to lose his wits end and go back to doing what comes easier and natural to him......thats right, the one two, with JMM countering the pants off of him with the right hand!:deal

To sum up, they box.....JMM is always a step ahead of Pac......they come full circle and Pac is right back where he started from, throwing one,two's with JMM countering with the right!


:lol: :lol: :lol: My description is also easier said than done, but thats the way I see the fight unfolding!
We'll all have to sit back and hope the fight gets made so we all can see for ourselves!:D :bbb :yep