Give Pac Credit!!

[chimba]

No one is more dissapointed than us PAC fans that he wasnt able to get a KO. When someone as good as MAB is in a survival mode he aint getting KOed. Why chase when PAC clearly outboxed him. He even had MAB dance in the 11th before MAB tried to cheat again..

PAC outboxed MAB, controlled the tempo...His ring generalship was better, he didnt get hit as much his defense has gotten better.
His right hand was alot better, patience has improved

And Pac didnt get hurt, MAB can never ever hurt him. He beat MAB more convincingly than JMM did.

I mean look at it this way, If PAC further improves that right jab and just shoots with the left occasionally..he'll be unbeatable, he only gets hit when he engages and he always gets better of the exchanges. He won every flurry tonight and he also won from the outside.

Give the man a break:-(

[Silverfox]

I think that Roach has stifled Mannie’s natural fighting style. I’m not saying that he’s a bad coach. However, Mannie is not the fighter of 2 years ago….style wise. It may be a good thing that he has learnt a bit more defense…but by the same token, he’s become too conservative. Barrera was very good in defense….that was the sum of it! He retired on a proud note for himself. (He would have been prouder going out in a macho attempt though!)

I hope he sticks to his word to quit.

[chimba]

I think that Roach has stifled Mannie’s natural fighting style. I’m not saying that he’s a bad coach. However, Mannie is not the fighter of 2 years ago….style wise. It may be a good thing that he has learnt a bit more defense…but by the same token, he’s become too conservative. Barrera was very good in defense….that was the sum of it! He retired on a proud note for himself. (He would have been prouder going out in a macho attempt though!)

I hope he sticks to his word to quit.

It needed to be stiffled because slick boxers like a JMM will feast on his recklessness. Now he can win by jabbing, patiently turning that left that still finds the target and winning rounds like that. He can still brawl, he'll win his shares of those.

But check this out! without the flurries. MAB couldnt hit PAC, not a single powershot when the fight was in neutral, his D has improved. He commanded the ring.. basically he beat MAB with MABs style

[knockout]

[quote=chimba]No one is more dissapointed than us PAC fans that he wasnt able to get a KO. When someone as good as MAB is in a survival mode he aint getting KOed. Why chase when PAC clearly outboxed him. He even had MAB dance in the 11th before MAB tried to cheat again..

PAC outboxed MAB, controlled the tempo...His ring generalship was better, he didnt get hit as much his defense has gotten better.
His right hand was alot better, patience has improved

And Pac didnt get hurt, MAB can never ever hurt him. He beat MAB more convincingly than JMM did.

:nod

[chimba]

What Pac did tonight can't be considered "outboxing" MAB. He won in his usual quick in and out aggressive style, reason he wasn't as aggressive and stayed on the outside tonight was because MAB was the one boxing and dictating the pace and style of the fight. But even then he wasn't good enough tonight to overcome Manny's in and out quickness.

Also Barrera wasn't fighting in "survival mode" tonight. :nono He was trying to tactically outbox Manny because he knew that if he started to exchange he would have been worn down and stopped the same way Morales was. You can't blame a guy for knowing his weaknesses and sticking to his intended gameplan.

Fair enough but you must admit that PACs neutral fighting, he wasnt easy to hit tonight. Yes when he rushes he takes 1 to get 2 but that was it tonight, he landed more jabs than MAB. The problem with MAB was that he was so psyched by overcomitting that he couldnt even put together a combo..He did try going toe to toe I give you that, he didnt win the exchange so he tried to jab to victory .

Honestly I dont know what he could have done

[SweetScience]

PAC's right hand has vastly improved which surprised MAB at times.

[chimba]

Manny did show an improved defense tonight, much better than he's shown in previous fights... and like you I'm not sure what MAB could have done tonight to win. Maybe the old school brawling version of Barrera could have done better versus Pac because I'm not sure if Marco could have ever outboxed Manny even in his absolute prime. It's just too hard to tactically outbox a fighter who is that much quicker than you now matter how well schooled a fighter you are.

Ohh he could have in his prime.. MAnny respected MABs power..like he said he was the hardest puncher he ever met. thats why he couldnt chase much and was patient through the whole fight...he didnt even let loose in the 12th. what for??. With Erik or JMM PAc will be more apt to brawl because he can take their shots better. He was careful with MAB..a poster mentioned this fact already

[kg0208]

Manny did show an improved defense tonight, much better than he's shown in previous fights... and like you I'm not sure what MAB could have done tonight to win. Maybe the old school brawling version of Barrera could have done better versus Pac because I'm not sure if Marco could have ever outboxed Manny even in his absolute prime. It's just too hard to tactically outbox a fighter who is that much quicker than you now matter how well schooled a fighter you are.

You hit the nail on the head. It's why no matter how good Hopkins got tactically, Prime Jones would IMO always beat him. Simply too fast.

Old School MAB may have been able to hang with Pacman. If they had fought at 122, it would have been a better fight than the two they had. I would favor Pacman ever so slightly.

[Danny Ocean]

Fair enough but you must admit that PACs neutral fighting, he wasnt easy to hit tonight. Yes when he rushes he takes 1 to get 2 but that was it tonight, he landed more jabs than MAB. The problem with MAB was that he was so psyched by overcomitting that he couldnt even put together a combo..He did try going toe to toe I give you that, he didnt win the exchange so he tried to jab to victory .

Honestly I dont know what he could have done
well what he could have done was come in focused and ready in 2003 and he would have beat him then if pacquiao tries to outbox marquez it will be more 1sided than their first fight was

if he tries to overwhelm marquez he will be schooled

tell pacquiao to fight some fighters colming off wins

[Amsterdam]

You hit the nail on the head. It's why no matter how good Hopkins got tactically, Prime Jones would IMO always beat him. Simply too fast.

Old School MAB may have been able to hang with Pacman. If they had fought at 122, it would have been a better fight than the two they had. I would favor Pacman ever so slightly.

Pacman's a great fighter period even with all of his evident flaws. The reason we want to all see him 'sorted' out is because of these shitty fanboys that don't even know what they are talking about, as displayed by the thread creator here.

I'm really liking Guzman's chances over Pac.

[chimba]

Pacman's a great fighter period even with all of his evident flaws. The reason we want to all see him 'sorted' out is because of these shitty fanboys that don't even know what they are talking about, as displayed by the thread creator here.

I'm really liking Guzman's chances over Pac.

You know more boxing.:rofl :rofl :rofl ..shit head whats wrong with my post?? You sound like a nerd...when you condescend on a boxing forum like a know it all:rofl :rofl what do you know Boxing guru?? :rofl :rofl
tell me your favorite fights from the 50's :rofl

[Amsterdam]

You know more boxing.:rofl :rofl :rofl ..shit head whats wrong with my post?? You sound like a nerd...when you condescend on a boxing forum like a know it all:rofl :rofl what do you know Boxing guru?? :rofl :rofl
tell me your favorite fights from the 50's :rofl

Well, it has nothing to do with being an expert to know that what Pac did was nothing resembling outboxing Barrera in this bout, as you asserted.

[chimba]

Well, it has nothing to do with being an expert to know that what Pac did was nothing resembling outboxing Barrera in this bout, as you asserted.

He didnt outbox MAB??? He just outjabbed him and won at least 9 rounds. He didnt brawl because MAB wouldnt engaged? So tell me exactly how the hell PAC won???

[Morrissey]

What Pac did tonight can't be considered "outboxing" MAB. He won in his usual quick in and out aggressive style, reason he wasn't as aggressive and stayed on the outside tonight was because MAB was the one boxing and dictating the pace and style of the fight. But even then he wasn't good enough tonight to overcome Manny's in and out quickness.

Also Barrera wasn't fighting in "survival mode" tonight. :nono He was trying to tactically outbox Manny because he knew that if he started to exchange he would have been worn down and stopped the same way Morales was. You can't blame a guy for knowing his weaknesses and sticking to his intended gameplan.

HIs game plan was to survive. That's it. And not to outbox Pac nor win the fight.

He was effective in limiting Pac's offense by going away from the onslaught, or by showing some counterpunching skills but he has no offense in effect. He was not even able to land his jabs at will. Of course, the 10-second end of the round flurry was always there as expected, and some vintage cheating, but overall, MAB decided to end his career without a serious injury by fighting "smart".

[Amsterdam]

He didnt outbox MAB??? He just outjabbed him and won at least 9 rounds. He didnt brawl because MAB wouldnt engaged? So tell me exactly how the hell PAC won???

Little man, outjabbing someone does not mean outboxing someone. Pac was the aggressor for 95% of the fight and MAB was the one attempting to do the boxing.

Pac would have loved to get into exchanges, he would have won by KO, he did his best to intiate exchanges and used pretty solid tactics in doing so. Pac has a very good jab, he's always had a nice quick snappy jab and has always had good timing, it's good to see him controlling a fight with it instead of being too wild.

However, this is not outboxing, this is pressing a fight and working behind the jab, most competent pressure fighters/swarmers do this.

[chimba]

Little man, outjabbing someone does not mean outboxing someone. Pac was the aggressor for 95% of the fight and MAB was the one attempting to do the boxing.

Pac would have loved to get into exchanges, he would have won by KO, he did his best to intiate exchanges and used pretty solid tactics in doing so. Pac has a very good jab, he's always had a nice quick snappy jab and has always had good timing, it's good to see him controlling a fight with it instead of being too wild.

However, this is not outboxing, this is pressing a fight and working behind the jab, most competent pressure fighters/swarmers do this.

Fair enough..:good Mab still didnt show me any boxing tonight

[Amsterdam]

Fair enough..:good Mab still didnt show me any boxing tonight

He showed plenty of boxing, just was not successful at it against a superior opponent at this point.

[johnco]

well what he could have done was come in focused and ready in 2003 and he would have beat him then if pacquiao tries to outbox marquez it will be more 1sided than their first fight was

if he tries to overwhelm marquez he will be schooled

tell pacquiao to fight some fighters colming off wins

i am getting sick of this moron :!:

[Bangis]

PAC won the fight clearly... but not as expected.... i really hope that for his next fight he trains at wildcard... theres just too much distraction in the philippines.

[PATSYS]

I think that Roach has stifled Mannie’s natural fighting style. I’m not saying that he’s a bad coach. However, Mannie is not the fighter of 2 years ago….style wise. It may be a good thing that he has learnt a bit more defense…but by the same token, he’s become too conservative. Barrera was very good in defense….that was the sum of it! He retired on a proud note for himself. (He would have been prouder going out in a macho attempt though!)

I hope he sticks to his word to quit.

I kinda agree. Pac is more cautious than I ever seen him fight, he seems to stick to game plan rather than just let his natural offense go.

That means he will not be as aggressive as he used to but that alos means he is improving defensively.

As a Pacfan, I can live with that.

[Spit Bucket]

wow...i think this is the first time ive seen the word BORING and PAC in the same sentence...mustve really sucked for those who paid for it...oh well

[doknochrisan]

i am getting sick of this moron :!:

Amen....

[DobyZhee]

what's funny is that MAB stuck to his gameplan and still lost. He's like a miniature Hatton..hold on for dear life when you get in a brawl.

I'm pissed that I paid 49.95 for this crap. I kinda expected it so that's what I got.

I gotta see that replay on that headbutt. It must have really dazed Pac caused he was walkin' like he was on queer street after that.

Enjoy the moral victories MAB fans...the guy went out like a punk after that headbutt

[boxbox]

what's funny is that MAB stuck to his gameplan and still lost. He's like a miniature Hatton..hold on for dear life when you get in a brawl.

I'm pissed that I paid 49.95 for this crap. I kinda expected it so that's what I got.

I gotta see that replay on that headbutt. It must have really dazed Pac caused he was walkin' like he was on queer street after that.

Enjoy the moral victories MAB fans...the guy went out like a punk after that headbutt

headbutt? hmm i better watch it again..didnt see that, or was it the "punch" during the break off?

[PacDbest]

headbutt? hmm i better watch it again..didnt see that, or was it the "punch" during the break off?

yup.. it's hitting on the break(again). Pac was going for the KO & lost momentum after that. I could have won $120 for picking Round 11 on our $10/ rd pool bet.

A little bit dissapointed in the fight. MAB was there just to get the Check & just survive. We have some fun watching it whenever Pac goes for the attack. But on Pac's fight excitement standard, this fight was below Pac's average. There's not much replay value compare to Pac-mAB1 & Pac-EM trilogy.

[bulakenyo]

^^

you didnt bet your vcash!

[puga_ni_nana]

yup.. it's hitting on the break(again). Pac was going for the KO & lost momentum after that. I could have won $120 for picking Round 11 on our $10/ rd pool bet.

A little bit dissapointed in the fight. MAB was there just to get the Check & just survive. We have some fun watching it whenever Pac goes for the attack. But on Pac's fight excitement standard, this fight was below Pac's average. There's not much replay value compare to Pac-mAB1 & Pac-EM trilogy.

we have the same kind of betting system, pick which round it will end. i pick decision and i won. :D

[BigReg]

No one is more dissapointed than us PAC fans that he wasnt able to get a KO. When someone as good as MAB is in a survival mode he aint getting KOed. Why chase when PAC clearly outboxed him. He even had MAB dance in the 11th before MAB tried to cheat again..

PAC outboxed MAB, controlled the tempo...His ring generalship was better, he didnt get hit as much his defense has gotten better.
His right hand was alot better, patience has improved

And Pac didnt get hurt, MAB can never ever hurt him. He beat MAB more convincingly than JMM did.

I mean look at it this way, If PAC further improves that right jab and just shoots with the left occasionally..he'll be unbeatable, he only gets hit when he engages and he always gets better of the exchanges. He won every flurry tonight and he also won from the outside.

Give the man a break:-(

I didn't see the fight, however, from what I've been reading it seems that the fight unfolded predictably. Knowing, he couldn't stand up to Pac's power, MAB simply tried to box for 12 rounds. However, Manny is too fast for Barrera, and was able to constantly beat him to the punch.

Honestly, I've only seen one guy at 130,besides JMM, that I think can beat Pac, Joan Guzman. Pac cannot outbox Guzman, and Guzman is fast enough where Pac can't constantly beat him the punch. Guzman handled a big puncher in the form of Barrios with ease and is facing another big puncher in the form of Soto. Assuming Guzman gets past Soto, a fight with Pac would be the biggest challange for Pac at 130. However, I don't think it will ever happen.

[bulakenyo]

bigreg, parts of the fight are already on youtube. check it out if you got time.

[BigReg]

bigreg, parts of the fight are already on youtube. check it out if you got time.

I definately will. I heard Pac put on a great performance.

[bulakenyo]

"great" as in much improved balance, boxing skills and better head movement/defense.

but this fight wont be on Pac's most exciting fights list. It had good exchanges from time to time, but it wasnt a signature Pacman buzzsaw performance. He tried to be a boxer-slugger this time.

[koko of phil]

Me too I must admit I was a little disappointed on Pac for not showing the usual do-or-die performance in this fight but appeared to be more cautious instead than being an offensive fighter. But still, I believe he deserves the credit to win the fight. Maybe it's just normal to be discontent when you're used to the standard of a certain fighter who excites you by regularly beating hard, or impressively, his opponents.

[Chert]

pac did show better defense in this fight but was also too conservative and cautious in his offensive attack compared to his previous fights.