Pacquiao vs Clottey...Make your pick.

[slip&counter]

Okay, so every man and his dog is picking Pacquiao (is there any need for this thread? LOL) But there are still some intangibles to make it intriguing though, I guess i'm just trying to find anyone going for Clottey.

You all know my pick and it has not change. I do worry that the whole world is picking Manny (seems almost too easy). I think Clottey needs to let his hands go (sounds cliched) but it's so important. One thing he can't do is follow Pacquiao around like he did Cotto or he'll either get stopped for the first time or lose on a embarrasingly onesided decision. He needs to watch the JMM fight and control the fight with the lead right hands. You have to off set Pacquiao's rythm. He can not sit and watch or he'll be a sitting duck because we all know those mcflurries will be catching the judges eye even if they're only hitting arms and gloves. All that being said we are asking Clottey to be something he's not.

The same disposition that has made Josh a noble little master in the art of equalizing and parrying an attack with those head phones is the pendulum swing to his bipolar inability to flip the switch and create sustained offense (one eyed Cotto, no head movement Margarito, and hell even Zab in spots where he admires work from 2 rounds ago and watches the paint dry). All the tools are there but the carpenter chooses not to work when it's raining. Fait accompli, beyond alteration. :-(

[Dan684]

Draw Rnd 9 :good

[TFFP]

Pacman by 12 round decision. 117-111.

[kosaros]

Pac with a wide UD. Just too busy and good, but Clottey has a solid chin and a very good defence - he will see it through to the end.

[happydrinks]

Clottey could win every round and he wouldn't get the decision.

[johna_83]

Pacquiao TKO Round 11

[slip&counter]

Pacquiao TKO Round 11

I really think Pacquiao could stop him somewhere between the 8th and 11th, I could see Clottey quiting on his stool.

[Guy]

Pacquiao TKO RD 10 He's going to make Clottey look like he's swinging in quicksand.

[theuppercut]

I'm concerned about Clottey's preperation for this one. I'm concerned he might get stage fright walking out in that arena. I'm concerned if that happens and he freezes up Pac and Roach will sense it and get a big lead early on.

Pac is too professional to let this one slip away and his movement alone will be too much for Clottey. On the build-up to a fight a lot of people start thinking 'what if' and start imagining all these scenarios regarding the underdog. This has a degree of inevitability about it. Pac by a wide decision but...

If Clottey comes in at the weight that I think he will and if somehow he can cut that ring off and get Pac backed up and begin to bully him then he has a shot of an upset. Pacquiao can become reckless at times and indisciplined, not seen it much of late, but it is in him.

But I can't see the upset happening. Can't see the boxing gods allowing it.

[Beeston Brawler]

I can see a late rounds mercy stoppage as well.

Clottey does get lazy.... Pacquiao will just tee off on him if that happens.

The value bet is Pacquiao on points at nearly 2/1 however.

[D-MAC]

Pac wide UD.

[ishy]

Pacquiao late stoppage - rounds 10, 11 or 12.

[GPater11093]

wow, Dan I have heard a ninth round draw touted earlier by someone else, thats quite freaky exact round and everything.

Clottey dosent have any tools to trouble Pacquiao IMO. Clottey puts that shell up but Pacs accurate and fast shows will puncture it. Clottey lacks the foot or hand speed to counter punch Pacquiao and is too slow footed to get on the inside as Pacquiao controlls range well.

I cant see how Clottey wins, and if Clottey wins, i will eat my hat

[Flea Man]

I think Clottey will get pulled out late. He wit get anything going when the gloves are up, and will be beaten to the punch when he tries to throw.

A tough opponent, but stylistically it favours Pac big time. I can see Clottey pasting the distance too, one thing I can't imagine is a genuine stoppage. Clottey is too tough and and a good, solid fighter.

Is Soto vs David Diaz on the undercard? If Arum has any sense he'll match the winner (Soto pts IMO) against Valero, or is the Peterson fight signed and sealed?

[Flea Man]

One thing the styles and physicalities of both fighters pretty much guarantee: some bad head clashes :deal

[GPater11093]

Forgot to say my pick is a Pac KO or a TKO.

Pacquiao is an odd type of puncher, he has the explosiveness to catch a guy unaware and spark him quickly with a knockout punch, which he might catch Clottey coming in with (I think this will happen for a KO) However, he is also a strong fighter who can wear someone down with his punches and stop them late through attrition. And both forms of pucnhign might have to be on display before he stops his man.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Clottey win TKO 10 Pacquiao

[GPater11093]

explain please, Forgive me.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Just take this oppurtunity to say a little something

Apologies for gatecrashing the thread................

There is a thread I started in the Lounge call

Who is the most respected poster on ESB ?

The biggest names on ESB feature in the week long poll

We have 3 Brit Forum regulars represented in the poll

GazOC
Claypole
Dan B

:good

they need your votes - to do the Brit Forum proud

[FLINT ISLAND]

explain please, Forgive me.


Just fancy Clottey

Strong - durable - and you need to be to survive against Pac

Pac for all his brilliant wins - is still human and can be hurt and stopped

I think Clottely will grind him down for a upset.

Thats just my feeling.

[Mandanda]

Got a feeling heads will clash in this one. Josh is naughty with the head at best of times. He will start slow and look to gain foothold in the fight as it progresses. He's got lovely way of put his combination's together. This could be a longer harder night then Cotto if Josh is mentally prepared to fight and fight to win. Josh must use the jab this is the main reason why i feel Pacquiao would lose to PBF because Cotto landed numerous jabs on Pacquiao.

Pacquiao is the favorite and rightly so but i'd love to see Josh shock the world.

[The Blackout]

Pacquaio TKO Round 7.

[GPater11093]

Just fancy Clottey

Strong - durable - and you need to be to survive against Pac

Pac for all his brilliant wins - is still human and can be hurt and stopped

I think Clottely will grind him down for a upset.

Thats just my feeling.

Fair enough, just dont see Clottey having the means to get at Pac to impose himself much like the Alexander vs Urango fight.

Got a feeling heads will clash in this one. Josh is naughty with the head at best of times. He will start slow and look to gain foothold in the fight as it progresses. He's got lovely way of put his combination's together. This could be a longer harder night then Cotto if Josh is mentally prepared to fight and fight to win. Josh must use the jab this is the main reason why i feel Pacquiao would lose to PBF because Cotto landed numerous jabs on Pacquiao.

Pacquiao is the favorite and rightly so but i'd love to see Josh shock the world.

Cotto was jabbing then stepping to his left, an excellant wee move, but Clottey has never really shown that kinda mobility

[KCD]

Pacquaio between 9 and 11.

I dont think Pacqauio will ko Clottey ala Hatton, but i think he may sto Clottey due to accumulation and eithe rhave the ref jump in or Clottey retire on his stool.

[Mandanda]

Fair enough, just dont see Clottey having the means to get at Pac to impose himself much like the Alexander vs Urango fight.



Cotto was jabbing then stepping to his left, an excellant wee move, but Clottey has never really shown that kinda mobility
Yep that's true and i don't expect him to use it tomorrow either. Josh frustrates me. One thing i expect from him is to rise to the occasion because he did last June in lions den. Looking forward to this fight..gonna be great spectacle.

[GPater11093]

Yep that's true and i don't expect him to use it tomorrow either. Josh frustrates me. One thing i expect from him is to rise to the occasion because he did last June in lions den. Looking forward to this fight..gonna be great spectacle.

Pac's just too good. And he has a style advantage IMO.

Clottey is a bit of a headcase, he seems to be a totally consistent pro at times. Then the next he forgets to throw punches during a round.

I think he is one of those guys that needs an excuse, he never commits himself 100% so in his mind he has an excuse if he losses, he is scared of the outcome of him trying hsi best as he would not want to lose, and in his mind he would never lose because he never would perform his best.

That is why Clottey loses his big fights

[Guy]

I think he is one of those guys that needs an excuse, he never commits himself 100% so in his mind he has an excuse if he losses, he is scared of the outcome of him trying hsi best as he would not want to lose, and in his mind he would never lose because he never would perform his best.

That is why Clottey loses his big fights


Nice :goodYou might be onto something there mate, next stop psychiatry!!! :lol:

[GPater11093]

Nice :goodYou might be onto something there mate, next stop psychiatry!!! :lol:

:lol::lol:

Boxing is mostly mental, part of predicting a fight is mental. Even myself I get that feeling that if you dont do your best you can still hold excuses, but you gotta do your best.

[Guy]

:lol::lol:

Boxing is mostly mental, part of predicting a fight is mental. Even myself I get that feeling that if you dont do your best you can still hold excuses, but you gotta do your best.


:cool:I think you got Clottey down to a tee there G-man, seems a bit of a slacker in the ring, excuses flow etc

[Scottish]

Pac UD

[GPater11093]

:cool:I think you got Clottey down to a tee there G-man, seems a bit of a slacker in the ring, excuses flow etc

It is exactly that, when under pressure people react differently. Clottey reacts by under-performing to have an excuse. We all do it to an extent.

[phonk]

Clottey kayo Pacman by way of headbutt

[duranimal]

Just fancy Clottey

Strong - durable - and you need to be to survive against Pac

Pac for all his brilliant wins - is still human and can be hurt and stopped

I think Clottely will grind him down for a upset.

Thats just my feeling.

I'am of this mind also, it's all for josh to fuck up, he's got to let the leather fly for the full 3 min & press press press as if he lets manny take those 1 min breathers during the round then manny will be there till the end.

Cotto was whacking manny about for the first 3.5 rounds until he got put down, i'am a big pac fan but i ai'nt happy about this one, it's quite obvious that alot of people don't know/under-estimate josh, i'am not one of them.

[Pottypete]

Pac wide UD.

[Ectoplasm]

Pac by 9th round stoppage.

[Bonavena25]

Pacquiao will win this easily if he can keep his head right. However I think he might throw in a sloppy performance and Clottey is good enough to take advantage. I don't think Pacquiao's mind will be on the job, as Watt might say.

[El Cepillo]

I know a few people suggesting they can "sense" an upset. Personally, I don't see it. I'm slightly baffled by how Clottey's defense has gone from being pretty good, to "world class" recently. :think

In all honesty, I think Pac will win be TKO, with the ref stopping it and Clottey staying on his feet. Somtime around 9,10,11 time.

[UndisputedUK]

Apart from a clash of heads or fouls, Pac should bash the crap out of Clottey. Too fast, too powerful. It may go a few rounds longer than we expect, but it's the same result in the end. A world class all time great against an also ran here I'm afraid. After his recent fights (PAC), I cannot see how anyone could bet on Clottey to win.

[mcguirpa]

I'm in the camp that's sensing an upset here.

This is probably the first time that pac is facing a genuinely bigger man at his natural weight. Giving away a couple of lb at the weigh in that's more likely to translate into half a stone on the night.

Good defence (i.e. he tends not to block shots with his chin), absolutely solid when he is hit. Clottey can take Pac to a place he hasn't been since the Marquez fights.

I think Pac most likely takes it on points, but a split decision or draw wouldn't surprise me at all.

[slip&counter]

I have to say Freddie Roach is too honest for his own good. His honesty actually downplays Pacquiao's accomplishments. He has no problem telling everyone that Oscar was faded and drained when Pacquiao fought him. That Diaz was the weakest champion in the 135 division and that Hatton was just made to order. Granted we all know this but still...You'll never hear Roger Mayweather water down his nephews opponents, in fact he may even boast them higher than what they were.

Maybe he just saw those styles (Oscar can't pull the trigger and Ricky being fatally open to the southpaw check hybrid) as a see-come, no lose statement. Kinda like Angelo letting Clay pull the 200 over 120 blood pressure reading before the first Liston fight. But Roach keeps that blunt honesty going even after the fight. He was like that as a boxer as well which is probably where a lot of this "no bullsh*t" and lack of giving a beaten fighter some due credit. The connection here is that when Freddie fought, he was usually on the short end of the a** whoopin. But tough as nails, even though he was always seen as a name for the upstarts to have on their resume. You'll notice Freddie goes back to "hat in hand" boast when referencing JMM and Floyd though. Lol.

[s23041983]

Pacquiao by stoppage... pac will pick him apart and clottey wont land a meaningful punch for 10 rounds then the ref will have seen enough :good

[BIG WORM]

I dont think he knocks Clottey out........

I think Clottey is a genuine tough cunt

[slip&counter]

I know a few people suggesting they can "sense" an upset. Personally, I don't see it. I'm slightly baffled by how Clottey's defense has gone from being pretty good, to "world class" recently. :think

In all honesty, I think Pac will win be TKO, with the ref stopping it and Clottey staying on his feet. Somtime around 9,10,11 time.

Well said. :good

Btw did you hear Roach say they might fight Marquez at 45 after Clottey? At what point do the organizations get together and map out the trail of broken tears that ole Manny and Freddie Fingers is leaving behind? Damn he scored a 35 strap and never defended. Scored a 40 strap or two off Hatton and hasn't defended. Now he's got the 47 WBO belt and his trainer is talking about another float? WTF! Let's just diamond belt every single pound and have like 250 cubic zirconia straps with Manny's lil russell terrier on the center plate for each lol!

[dan-b]

Pac TKO 11. Ref steps in.

[slip&counter]

Just fancy Clottey

Strong - durable - and you need to be to survive against Pac

Pac for all his brilliant wins - is still human and can be hurt and stopped

I think Clottely will grind him down for a upset.

Thats just my feeling.

You're not really giving any tangible reasons apart from Clottey is strong and durable, let me tell you my friend that is not enough to "grind" down a freak like Pacquiao. Manny is a totaly different fighter from "6 straight shots Manny" "going crazy when seeing blood" of the past. watch specifically his footwork, his faints and his slip game. I swear its like two different fighters, plus is strength and punch resistance at this weight is soo underestimated (he basically baited and rope a doped Cotto) Yes he still does dangerous things but his awkward punches, angles and speed make up for that. Clottey is just make to order for him and even if he has Pacquaio going we know the Grandmaster of excuses has certain personality flaws. I see Josh being the one that gasses late, we know Pacquiao can shoeshine for 20 rounds. Clottey will not beat any "busy" fighter at this level.

[Guy]

Pacquiao-Clottey
Tale of The Tape: Details
Pacman Grand Master
Freddie Roach Lenny DeJesus (trainer)
Southpaw Orthodox (stance)
145 ¾ lbs 147 lbs (weight)
5ft 6ins 5ft 8ins (height)
66 ½ 68 (reach)
38 38 (chest)
13 14 (biceps)
28 32 (waist)
16 16 (neck)
10 10 (fist)


Can't believe Manny's 5ft 6" 28" waist but still weighs 145!! shit i'm 5 10" 140 30 waist.

[JonOli]

Pacquiao Decision

[Mandanda]

Just watching the Countdown show on youtube. DeJesus worried me when he said i don't need to watch tapes of Manny i already know how he fights and what he does...Freddy has add a few techniques and skills but he still ain't changed.

[Guy]

Just watching the Countdown show on youtube. DeJesus worried me when he said i don't need to watch tapes of Manny i already know how he fights and what he does...Freddy has add a few techniques and skills but he still ain't changed.



:lol::lol: Nice to see they've covered all bases

[Mandanda]

Sorry should posted the vids. Nice lil build up show.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Welly]

Manny comfortably on points.

[slip&counter]

Just watching the Countdown show on youtube. DeJesus worried me when he said i don't need to watch tapes of Manny i already know how he fights and what he does...Freddy has add a few techniques and skills but he still ain't changed.

That was shocking, but i wonder if he was being serious? Stevie Wonder could see Pacquiao is a vastly different fighter. TBH Mandanda, i'm starting to think this is nothing more than a big bucks sparring session between 2 TR fighters...to keep Manny active & give Josh a multi million dollar payday & shut him up so Bobfather can ignore him for 5 more years. I think Clottey "is on board" if you know what i mean.

[Grievesy]

Pacquiao should win a fairly comfortable decision I think. As usual I think his speed will be a major factor, both defensively and offensively. Coupled with Clottey's quite pedestrian workrate and Pacquiao should out box him. I don't think Clottey will be stopped though, he's one tough fucker!

[Mandanda]

That was shocking, but i wonder if he was being serious? Stevie Wonder could see Pacquiao is a vastly different fighter. TBH Mandanda, i'm starting to think this is nothing more than a big bucks sparring session between 2 TR fighters...to keep Manny active & give Josh a multi million dollar payday & shut him up so Bobfather can ignore him for 5 more years. I think Clottey "is on board" if you know what i mean.
I have had my worries about this as well Slip. Josh's comments don't give me much hope....i'm hoping it's mindgames but then i think Josh ain't smart enough to play mindgames..i think you could well be right mate...i really hope not...

[Pug1list]

Manny via Late corner stoppage

[izmat]

Pac wins 5th round TKO

[TFFP]

Pacquiao should win a fairly comfortable decision I think. As usual I think his speed will be a major factor, both defensively and offensively. Coupled with Clottey's quite pedestrian workrate and Pacquiao should out box him. I don't think Clottey will be stopped though, he's one tough fucker!
This pretty much sums it up in a concise manner...

[Lazarus]

I picked the gay option. Prize please? :)

[China_hand_Joe]

Manny.

If there is a stoppage, I believe it will come in the first half of the fight or not at all.

Manny TKO round 3 (3 KD rule if it is in effect) or Manny UD, with early KD on the way.

[TFFP]

Manny.

If there is a stoppage, I believe it will come in the first half of the fight or not at all.

Manny TKO round 3 (3 KD rule if it is in effect) or Manny UD, with early KD on the way.
What is your logic for this CHJ?

[Grant1]

Pac stoppage (rounds 8 to 10).

EDIT*

Just had a bet on these.

R8 10/1
R9 12/1
R10 12/1

[Snorkel]

Can't see anything other than a clear Pac decision. Clottey lacks the work rate to out point him and the speed and one punch power to catch him cold.

That said, I did put all my Vcash on Clottey by KO at 9/1 on the off chance that he miraculously flukes it. Wouldn't put a penny of real money on that outcome, mind.

[China_hand_Joe]

What is your logic for this CHJ?

He doesn't have the kind of chin that can be easily worn down. A heavy handed fighter in the Margarito/Cotto mould will never stop him.

It may be possible for him to be caught cold by quick, explosive, accurate punching though, Pacquiao excells at this.

If I am full of shit, then I apologise.

[barry big balls]

Pacman UD the greatest fight of our generation cant be denied! (pac/may)

[Guy]

Pacman UD the greatest fight of our generation cant be denied! (pac/may)


why do you have John Barrowman in your avi?:think[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[barry big balls]

why do you have John Barrowman in your avi?:think[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Its john duddy genius.

[McGrain]

Pacquaio WTKO12

[slip&counter]

I'm in the camp that's sensing an upset here.

This is probably the first time that pac is facing a genuinely bigger man at his natural weight. Giving away a couple of lb at the weigh in that's more likely to translate into half a stone on the night.

It amazes me that people still fall into the trap of thinking Pacquiao is smaller then he really is.

How the heck does a guy who doesn't step on the gas and f*cks around with shell inactivity fighting maybe 45 seconds (tops) of any given round beat a deadly sharpshooter who's an offensive/athletic freak built for 15 rounds.

Give me some thing other than he's the "bigger" man...shoot.

[Ilesey]

Pac UD.

[Primadonna Kool]

Joshua Clottey 8 round Knock out..!

[slip&counter]

Its john duddy genius.

sarcasm...

[icemax]

Pac, wide UD :thumbsup:yep

[pmfan]

Pac, wide UD :thumbsup:yep

The above post may have been after the fight.

I think Clottey is the fourth best welterweight in the world, and that wasn't enough to even be competitive with Manny. Amazing performance.

[D-MAC]

Pac wide UD.

:hi::deal

[kosaros]

:hi::deal

Pac with a wide UD. Just too busy and good, but Clottey has a solid chin and a very good defence - he will see it through to the end.

:yep:good

[D-MAC]

:yep:good

We're smart cookies alright.:good