Did Greb ask Tunney to take it easy?

[Abdullah]

Did Harry Greb ask Tunney to take it easy on him during their fifth and final fight. I find this extremely hard to believe. I just read an article from Sports Illustrated dated Mar. 27, 1967 which reads:

"The ferocity of the hammering Greb took is indicated by a remark he made toward the end. In a clinch, he said, 'Gene, don't knock me out.' That from Harry Greb was monumental." That quote was actually from Gene Tunney's book.

This is an alleged quote from Greb himself, "He glanced around the speakeasy to be sure no outsiders were listening. "He was killing me in St. Paul," he confided. "I knew I couldn't stay the 10-round distance, and I didn't want to be knocked out or have the referee stop it, so I asked him in a clinch to take it easy. 'Sure, Harry,' he said. 'Stay in close and grab and hold, and I won't hurt you.' I knew I could trust him, and he knew I wasn't playing possum."

I just find this all hard to believe. Greb fought his ass off in every contest. He did lose to Tunney in a one-sided fight in their last meeting, but that doesn't mean that he asked for mercy. Even though Greb in a good natured way said "I don't want to fight you anymore" to Gene Tunney after that fight doesn't even mean that he didn't want to. I read that Greb was in favor of a sixth meeting. I don't know how successful he would've been, but in their fourth meeting Greb did get a newspaper draw. Some had him winning the 10 rounder. It is possible that Greb could've put on another great performance, thought I kind of think at that point in their careers, Greb not at his best anymore and Tunney in his prime and physically getting bigger, that Tunney may have had the better of it.

It seems the article is filled with quotes of Greb giving Tunney too much credit. It's like the second career of George Foreman always giving his opponents too many compliments, like his fear of Joe Frazier and his not really wanting a rematch with Ali, which I don't believe. I have read a lot on Greb, but this is the first that I've ever read that Greb would ask any opponent to take it easy. What doesn't make sense about the article is why would Greb admit that himself. If he asked Tunney for mercy, why tell people about. The whole point of this alleged request was to avoid embarrassment, right? So why admit to something so embarrassing? Anyway, have any of you read anything about this in Greb's book or anywhere else?

[Unforgiven]

I dont know, but I've read that Tunney carried a few opponents because he didn't see the point in battering them to pieces and knocking them unconscious. And the crowd didn't like that about Tunney.
So it's possible that Greb would take the opportunity to ask Tunney to ease up on him, if necessary.

[Unforgiven]

What doesn't make sense about the article is why would Greb admit that himself. If he asked Tunney for mercy, why tell people about. The whole point of this alleged request was to avoid embarrassment, right? So why admit to something so embarrassing?

He was drinking, and he confided (you didn't make clear to whom he was confiding though?).
People sometimes tend to pour out some embarrassing secrets when they have a drink or two.

[Abdullah]

March 27, 1967
Blood, Sweat, Toil But No Tears From Tunney
The speakeasy crowd said it was an easy fight for Harry Greb, but somewhere in the midst of it a battered and bleeding young bookworm figured out how the champion could be taken
James R. Fair

This is the name of the article. Check it out.

[burt bienstock]

Nonsence,Nonscence,Nonscence..In all the years that i have read about Harry Greb,this is the first time, I have heard such a scurrulous allegation....What Greb told Tunney after there last close fight in 1925 was more like this..He said to his pals and to Tunney, "gene , this is my last fight with you...You are getting too big for me to handle.. Greb never dropped by the growing Tunney, in any of their bouts...Greb had so much pride and courage,he would rather have died in the ring than plead for mercy...In 1925 Greb was 31 years old, blind in one eye, and at 160pounds or so was giving away to the fledgling soon to be heavyweight Tunney about 15 pounds...Fear was not in Greb's vocabulary, that's for sure....

[McGrain]

Yeah, sounds like a lot of shit to me.

[Unforgiven]

I think it's possible, but on balance it's not likely. The article in question is vague and unsourced. Nice story-telling, a good bit of boxing writing, but it needn't be at all accurate.

[Abdullah]

Nonsence,Nonscence,Nonscence..In all the years that i have read about Harry Greb,this is the first time, I have heard such a scurrulous allegation....What Greb told Tunney after there last close fight in 1925 was more like this..He said to his pals and to Tunney, "gene , this is my last fight with you...You are getting too big for me to handle.. Greb never dropped by the growing Tunney, in any of their bouts...Greb had so much pride and courage,he would rather have died in the ring than plead for mercy...In 1925 Greb was 31 years old, blind in one eye, and at 160pounds or so was giving away to the fledgling soon to be heavyweight Tunney about 15 pounds...Fear was not in Greb's vocabulary, that's for sure....

I agree 100%, Burt. It just makes no sense at all. All of the writers that I have ever read that wrote about Greb all seemed to agree on one thing and that is that Harry Greb had as much heart as anyone to ever step into the ring. I don't think "take it easy" was in his vocabulary. Have you ever read Tunney's book? Did Gene Tunney claim that this was true? I find it hard to believe no matter who said it.

[Flea Man]

March 27, 1967
Blood, Sweat, Toil But No Tears From Tunney
The speakeasy crowd said it was an easy fight for Harry Greb, but somewhere in the midst of it a battered and bleeding young bookworm figured out how the champion could be taken
James R. Fair

This is the name of the article. Check it out.

Fair was the guy that wrote the first Greb biography I think, which is known to be hyperbolic bullshit.

So, I'd take this with a pinch of salt myself:good

[Abdullah]

Someone on E.S.B. is currently reading Tunney's book. I forgot who it is, but if you happen to read this, please tell me if you read that he claims Greb asked him to take it easy. That goes for anyone else who has read Tunney's book. I haven't read it, but would like to.

[Bodysnatcher]

There's nothing about this in the Greb book I just read. From what I remember, Tunney pounded his body a lot and apparently some of the later rounds were a poor spectacle, with lots of clinching. The crowd booed and some even left because of the excessive holding.

But yeah, it seems highly unlikely that this was intended as an act of mercy.

[Abdullah]

Fair was the guy that wrote the first Greb biography I think, which is known to be hyperbolic bullshit.

So, I'd take this with a pinch of salt myself:good

You are right, that is the same guy. I did not notice that. I have read that Give Him To The Angels isn't a good book to read. E.S.B. really helps in situations such as this. We can all scan through our files and the internet, but when we have connections to other boxing fans they can do the same thing. It helps. It sounds to me like a die-hard Tunney fan decided to write a biography on Greb.

[Flea Man]

You are right, that is the same guy. I did not notice that. I have read that Give Him To The Angels isn't a good book to read. E.S.B. really helps in situations such as this. We can all scan through our files and the internet, but when we have connections to other boxing fans they can do the same thing. It helps. It sounds to me like a die-hard Tunney fan decided to write a biography on Greb.

Supposedly the recent Greb book is not as complex as it could be.

Ask Klompton or Slakka, they consider themselves THE authority on greb tidbits:good

[teeto]

Someone posted a very long story about this ages ago on here, the story is great, but the percentage of the truth in it is very questionable.

[Abdullah]

I personally hate this story. It seems to be fabricated. It contradicts with everything I have ever read about Greb. What alarms me is that one of the quotes is from Gene Tunney's book. Did Gene actually claim this?

[SLAKKA]

Supposedly the recent Greb book is not as complex as it could be.

Ask Klompton or Slakka, they consider themselves THE authority on greb tidbits:good
Tidbit man here,
Gene wrote 2 books, Arm For Living and A Man Must Fight. I''ve read both several times.
In re the 4th fight in Cleveland 1924* Gene claims Regis Welch of the Pittsburgh Post had some headline the next day in re "Gene Too Much For Our Boy"
Gene was spinning a yarn on that believe me!


*Not the fight in question on this thred.

[burt bienstock]

It is all poppycock...Tunney was a merciless fighter...Look at the beating he gave to Georges Carpentier...Any fighter no nmatter how brave in the ring, can have their reputation besmirched, by revisionists and gossip mongers...For a small example how truth later on becomes distorted...In 1943, my father and I saw the Armstrong vs Ray Robinson match at MSG...Young Robinson played with the aging Henry Armstrong, like a cat with a mouse..Everone in the audience sensed that Robinson did not want to hurt his once great idol, Armstrong...Well a couple of years later in boxing chapter interviewing Armstrong, Henry claimed that Ray Robinson was holding Armstrong, so old Henry wouldnt kayo Robinson.a preposturous claim...This is how wrong allegations take hold, fueled years later by rumors....Same with the wrong Greb stories...Dead wrong....

[Abdullah]

Tidbit man here,
Gene wrote 2 books, Arm For Living and A Man Must Fight. I''ve read both several times.
In re the 4th fight in Cleveland 1924* Gene claims Regis Welch of the Pittsburgh Post had some headline the next day in re "Gene Too Much For Our Boy"
Gene was spinning a yarn on that believe me!


*Not the fight in question on this thred.

Thanks for your response. Do you recall Gene saying anything in either book about carrying Greb, or more importantly, Greb asking Tunney to carry him? If you did read it, you probably would've remembered right away. I am pretty sure that the book that Fair was quoting in his article was Arm For Living.

[Abdullah]

It is all poppycock...Tunney was a merciless fighter...Look at the beating he gave to Georges Carpentier...Any fighter no nmatter how brave in the ring, can have their reputation besmirched, by revisionists and gossip mongers...For a small example how truth later on becomes distorted...In 1943, my father and I saw the Armstrong vs Ray Robinson match at MSG...Young Robinson played with the aging Henry Armstrong, like a cat with a mouse..Everone in the audience sensed that Robinson did not want to hurt his once great idol, Armstrong...Well a couple of years later in boxing chapter interviewing Armstrong, Henry claimed that Ray Robinson was holding Armstrong, so old Henry wouldnt kayo Robinson.a preposturous claim...This is how wrong allegations take hold, fueled years later by rumors....Same with the wrong Greb stories...Dead wrong....

That's the way it seems to me, Burt. I am just curious if Gene Tunney wrote that in his book. I guess I'll have to buy them and read them, which I would like to do anyway. I am a fan of Tunney, but just can't believe that Greb would ever ask anyone to carry him. I just can't.

[Son of Gaul]

Did Harry Greb ask Tunney to take it easy on him during their fifth and final fight. I find this extremely hard to believe. I just read an article from Sports Illustrated dated Mar. 27, 1967 which reads:

"The ferocity of the hammering Greb took is indicated by a remark he made toward the end. In a clinch, he said, 'Gene, don't knock me out.' That from Harry Greb was monumental." That quote was actually from Gene Tunney's book.

This is an alleged quote from Greb himself, "He glanced around the speakeasy to be sure no outsiders were listening. "He was killing me in St. Paul," he confided. "I knew I couldn't stay the 10-round distance, and I didn't want to be knocked out or have the referee stop it, so I asked him in a clinch to take it easy. 'Sure, Harry,' he said. 'Stay in close and grab and hold, and I won't hurt you.' I knew I could trust him, and he knew I wasn't playing possum."

I just find this all hard to believe. Greb fought his ass off in every contest. He did lose to Tunney in a one-sided fight in their last meeting, but that doesn't mean that he asked for mercy. Even though Greb in a good natured way said "I don't want to fight you anymore" to Gene Tunney after that fight doesn't even mean that he didn't want to. I read that Greb was in favor of a sixth meeting. I don't know how successful he would've been, but in their fourth meeting Greb did get a newspaper draw. Some had him winning the 10 rounder. It is possible that Greb could've put on another great performance, thought I kind of think at that point in their careers, Greb not at his best anymore and Tunney in his prime and physically getting bigger, that Tunney may have had the better of it.

It seems the article is filled with quotes of Greb giving Tunney too much credit. It's like the second career of George Foreman always giving his opponents too many compliments, like his fear of Joe Frazier and his not really wanting a rematch with Ali, which I don't believe. I have read a lot on Greb, but this is the first that I've ever read that Greb would ask any opponent to take it easy. What doesn't make sense about the article is why would Greb admit that himself. If he asked Tunney for mercy, why tell people about. The whole point of this alleged request was to avoid embarrassment, right? So why admit to something so embarrassing? Anyway, have any of you read anything about this in Greb's book or anywhere else?
Hmmm...

[Abdullah]

I think it's bullsh*t.

[djanders]

I read the article. Not far into this 1967 article, my bullshit alarm went off...and it kept getting louder as I read on...almost deafened me by the time I got to the end. That damn alarm made it almost seem like I'd been punched in the ears by the ghost of Greb! :nut

[Abdullah]

I read the article. Not far into this 1967 article, my bullshit alarm went off...and it kept getting louder as I read on...almost deafened me by the time I got to the end. That damn alarm made it almost seem like I'd been punched in the ears by the ghost of Greb! :nut

Yeah, my ears are still ringing. :tired

[manbearpig]

Nonsence,Nonscence,Nonscence..In all the years that i have read about Harry Greb,this is the first time, I have heard such a scurrulous allegation....What Greb told Tunney after there last close fight in 1925 was more like this..He said to his pals and to Tunney, "gene , this is my last fight with you...You are getting too big for me to handle.. Greb never dropped by the growing Tunney, in any of their bouts...Greb had so much pride and courage,he would rather have died in the ring than plead for mercy...In 1925 Greb was 31 years old, blind in one eye, and at 160pounds or so was giving away to the fledgling soon to be heavyweight Tunney about 15 pounds...Fear was not in Greb's vocabulary, that's for sure....
No offense mate, but you suck Greb's dick an incredible amount. It's an impressive show of fanboy-ism.

[burt bienstock]

manbear PIG,Thanks for your intellectual comment...Worthy of Mensa membership...I knew about the greatness of Greb before you were BORN..Furthermore his legacy doesn't need my adulation, his record speaks for itself, just as your language does,mate...

[manbearpig]

manbear PIG,Thanks for your intellectual comment...Worthy of Mensa membership...I knew about the greatness of Greb before you were BORN..Furthermore his legacy doesn't need my adulation, his record speaks for itself, just as your language does,mate...
You don't know anything about him, you just regurgitate other people's knowledge.

[SLAKKA]

No offense mate, but you suck Greb's dick an incredible amount. It's an impressive show of fanboy-ism.

My u Scotts ARE whiny and peevish as in the old Lord Mountbatten & Prince Of Wales stereotype. Why don't you leave old Burt alone?

[SLAKKA]

Thanks for your response. Do you recall Gene saying anything in either book about carrying Greb, or more importantly, Greb asking Tunney to carry him? If you did read it, you probably would've remembered right away. I am pretty sure that the book that Fair was quoting in his article was Arm For Living.

Its been a while since I read either book but it rings a very strong bell and I definitely recall Gene claiming this more than once through the years.

Perhaps the most reliable source was the 3rd man in the ring George A. Barton who was sorta of the high muckadee muck of all things Minnesota boxing in those days (the fight went down in twin cities) Barton, in addition to refereeing did an extensive write up the next day in the Minneapolis Tribune and reported no such exchange between the fighters. Comprehensive proof? Probably not, but we do know for a fact once Gene became the heavyweight champion of the world Harry was licking his chops for a title shot guaranteeing victory.

[burt bienstock]

ManbearPig, No I have not seen Harry Greb, in person,but my father did...And I have never seen Sir Harry Lauder, but I am aware of HIS greatness...Well by your narrow standards, I should not revere Abraham Lincoln, because I only know what other people said about him...Ad Infinitim.....

[djanders]

Some youngsters have ahead of them a long, very hard row to hoe, and they often make it even harder than it should ever be. :lol:

My Dad and Uncle also saw Greb. The way they described him, "The Pittsburgh Windmill" was a very suitable nickname for him! He was no doubt one of the greatest, pound for pound, of all time.

[KTFO]

Don't tell anyone cause it's top secret, but there was an agreement that Greb had to weigh less than Tunney.

[djanders]

Don't tell anyone cause it's top secret, but there was an agreement that Greb had to weigh less than Tunney.

And, never a man to break an agreement, even a secret one, Harry made sure he came to the scales well under. :p

[KTFO]

And, never a man to break an agreement, even a secret one, Harry made sure he came to the scales well under. :p


Yeh, imagine the reaction of the mob if Greb came with full blown 175lbs.....

[klompton]

Its been a while since I read either book but it rings a very strong bell and I definitely recall Gene claiming this more than once through the years.

Perhaps the most reliable source was the 3rd man in the ring George A. Barton who was sorta of the high muckadee muck of all things Minnesota boxing in those days (the fight went down in twin cities) Barton, in addition to refereeing did an extensive write up the next day in the Minneapolis Tribune and reported no such exchange between the fighters. Comprehensive proof? Probably not, but we do know for a fact once Gene became the heavyweight champion of the world Harry was licking his chops for a title shot guaranteeing victory.


Greb had his bad eye removed just prior to the first Tunney-Dempsey fight and was ringside wearing an eye patch. His career was effectively over. He talked a great game about wanting to continue but intimates stated this was to hype an upscale boxing gym he was in the process of opening. For all intents and purposes Greb was retired when Tunney won the championship. He may have been licking his chops but it was at what he would have done to Tunney in his prime, with two good eyes, not what he was going to be doing in the future. I always felt this was the saddest story of Greb's career (which had its share of sad stories). The guy chases Dempsey for 7 friggin years to get a title shot and a couple of weeks before Tunney (who probably would have been willing to face Greb for the title or at least in a ND defense) wins the championship his career is ended. Can you imagine the how that must have felt. Harry was suffering from depression the last few months of his life and I have no doubt if this didnt contribute it surely didnt help things.

[Doc Dynamo]

[I should not revere Abraham Lincoln, because I only know what other people said about him...Ad Infinitim.....[/quote]


This guy in a bar told me the Civil War was fixed. Robert E Lee took a dive at Gettysburg for the short end money.


Seriously the Greb story is pobably bull but... Greb had what 299 fights? Mostly against top opposition. If he asked for a break in a couple of rounds I wouldn't be shocked or outraged.

[Abdullah]

No offense mate, but you suck Greb's dick an incredible amount. It's an impressive show of fanboy-ism.

Manbearpig, it seems you are always striking at anyone who gives Greb even an ounce of credit. I would like to say that your remarks to Burt are unwarranted and completely disrespectful. I have never read any profanity from Burt, nor have I ever read anything from him that disrespected you. Burt isn't being a "fanboy", or whatever little stupid label that you are giving him. No. He is just stating his opinion and being kind enough to share his vast boxing knowledge with other boxing fans. You should respect that. If you have such a deep hatred for Greb then please don't waste our time with your useless comments. Don't take what I'm saying personal, it just needed to be said. I have nothing at all against you. In fact, I rather enjoyed our last conversation we had about Harry Greb.

[burt bienstock]

Abdullah, thank you ..You are one of a kind...B.B.

[Abdullah]

Abdullah, thank you ..You are one of a kind...B.B.

No problem, Burt, and thank you for the compliment.

[SLAKKA]

I'm of the mind the fourth fight in Cleveland, ten round N-D a case could be made that Harry won that also. Not stated in the Paxon book, in the weeks leading up to this encounter Greb and Red Mason (Mgr) are hurling invective after invective upon Matt Hinkle as to why he is unfit to referee. Despite this verbal barrage x 2 Hinkle declares this encounter a draw, BUT if you go with the Cleveland paps and also nearby Loraine, you get a very strong impression of Harry winning. Factoring in Gene, by this time is in the 180s, in his monster prime, Harry is in the low 160s, 30 years old, blind in one eye, countless car wrecks, it really appears like the jewel in the crown of his incredible career.

[skidd1]

New here but have read quite a bit on Greb and listened to a number of people who saw him etc.
I really cant see this .Tunney and Greb had loads of respect for each other.I dont doubt they spoke during rounds.Both had spent so long toe to toe they must have been close
I cant see Gene not trying to finish the fight if he could.He knew Grebs strengths and weakesses better than anyone
I would look at the intentions/motivations of the author of the article

[Abdullah]

Does anyone have any articles on this fight? I know none of the sportswriters would have been able to hear this, but I would like to read about it. From what I have read there was a lot of clinching. This sometimes happens when fighters fight each other so many times. I don't know if that was the case here.

[Abdullah]

Ok, this is driving me absolutely crazy! Here are some things that I want to know...

#1) If Tunney claims this in his second book, why didn't he say anything in his first book? Or did he? I haven't yet read his books so I don't know.

#2) If James R. Fair claims that Greb admitted this to him in the article, then why didn't he put it in the book that he wrote on Greb, "Give Him to The Angels"? Again, or did he? I haven't read that book and heard it's not a good book on Greb, but since it is a Greb book, I do want to read it. At first I didn't even want that book, but I have to fully investigate this matter.

#3) So, if this is actually in Tunney's book, is Tunney a liar? He wrote that book well after Greb's death. Did James Fair read Tunney's book and then claim that Greb admitted this nonsense? Were Fair and Tunney collaborating liars?

#4) Am I crazy? Ever since I read this article, I can hardly get it off my mind. None of us have met Greb or Tunney. Well it is possible that someone here had met Tunney, but I haven't. So, who knows what is true. It just seems so contradictory to everything that I have ever read on The Pittsburgh Windmill.

[klompton]

Its been a while since I read Tunney's books so i dont know off hand what he did or didnt write. What I do know is that Tunney heavily embellished many aspects of his fights with Greb, i.e. how dirty Greb was, how dominant Tunney was after their first fight, etc etc. If one reads between the lines its obvious that Tunney was sensitive about how well Greb was able to handle him throughout his career and thus tried to tear Greb down to a degree and lift himself up in order to enhance his legacy. Lets remember that Greb was not around to defend himself so Tunney could say whatever he wanted. Greb beat him in the first fight on dirty tactics (a lie), Tunney won four following fights handily and proved his superiority (false), Greb asked Tunney to carry him (highly suspect). Look at it this way: Greb was in much worse shape against men who reputed to be much heavier punchers than Tunney and never asked any quarter. There is little or no reason to believe he would have asked Tunney to go easy on him in their final fight which was probably the slowest of the five encounters.

James Fair was an outright liar. Dont read his book for facts. He was basically trying to emulate the style of Damon Runyon and was hoping to get a movie deal out of it. He was eventually threatened with legal action by Greb's family for the outright lies in his book and as a result the book was pulled from the stands and never had a second printing.

[klompton]

P.S. I just went through all of my newspapers for the Greb-Tunney fight which included all of the Twin Cities papers present. While it is clear that Greb lost, there is absolutely no mention of Greb asking Tunney to carry him. Indeed, George Barton, the referee and newspaper man wrote the following day that the fight was fought on the level. This should be put in context because two years earlier in 1923 Tunney and Jack Renault where kicked out of the ring for the perception that Tunney was carrying Renault. He was subsequently banned for a short period of time in that city. I think we can take Barton's comments as evidence that he heard no such comments by Greb and he would have been closer to the action than anyone.

[Abdullah]

Its been a while since I read Tunney's books so i dont know off hand what he did or didnt write. What I do know is that Tunney heavily embellished many aspects of his fights with Greb, i.e. how dirty Greb was, how dominant Tunney was after their first fight, etc etc. If one reads between the lines its obvious that Tunney was sensitive about how well Greb was able to handle him throughout his career and thus tried to tear Greb down to a degree and lift himself up in order to enhance his legacy. Lets remember that Greb was not around to defend himself so Tunney could say whatever he wanted. Greb beat him in the first fight on dirty tactics (a lie), Tunney won four following fights handily and proved his superiority (false), Greb asked Tunney to carry him (highly suspect). Look at it this way: Greb was in much worse shape against men who reputed to be much heavier punchers than Tunney and never asked any quarter. There is little or no reason to believe he would have asked Tunney to go easy on him in their final fight which was probably the slowest of the five encounters.


James Fair was an outright liar. Dont read his book for facts. He was basically trying to emulate the style of Damon Runyon and was hoping to get a movie deal out of it. He was eventually threatened with legal action by Greb's family for the outright lies in his book and as a result the book was pulled from the stands and never had a second printing.

Hey thanks for hitting me back again. I read some from the first Tunney book online and he made NO mention of that there. Of course, I didn't read it in it's entirety. He said that Greb came to him after the fight and said "i ain't fighting you no more" or something like that. Now I have read before that Greb said that in a good natured way, not in a "ok Gene, you are the greatest fighter pound for pound of all time and you could beat me one-handed" type of shit, written by James Fair. It sounds to me like they are slandering his legacy.

I just want to know if this is true and I know that no one can tell me definitively. But, what you say makes sense. Tunney only lost to one man. Not a heavyweight, like Dempsey. No, it was a little guy, named Harry Greb. I could see him being a bit sore about it. Another thing, he made quite a bit of excuses/explanations, not sure which to believe, about his losing the first fight, i.e., hand problems, cut hadn't healed, etc.
But, at the same time Tunney seemed pretty honest from what I have read. He gave Greb lots of credit at times and even admitted that Greb had an argument about winning the second fight. Now, he didn't admit that Greb might have won the fourth fight, but that kind of tells me that maybe Greb did deserve it. It was a newspaper draw and even the ref said had a decision been allowed that he would have called it a draw. Greb did get quite a few newspaper votes. Tunney was very proud though that a Pittsburgh newspaper voted for him. Who cares? As far as I can see Greb at the very worst went 2-2-1 against him. That's just my opinion. I hope to get The Fearless Harry Greb soon.

[Abdullah]

P.S. I just went through all of my newspapers for the Greb-Tunney fight which included all of the Twin Cities papers present. While it is clear that Greb lost, there is absolutely no mention of Greb asking Tunney to carry him. Indeed, George Barton, the referee and newspaper man wrote the following day that the fight was fought on the level. This should be put in context because two years earlier in 1923 Tunney and Jack Renault where kicked out of the ring for the perception that Tunney was carrying Renault. He was subsequently banned for a short period of time in that city. I think we can take Barton's comments as evidence that he heard no such comments by Greb and he would have been closer to the action than anyone.

Absolutely! You may have just saved me from a stroke.:twisted:
Since there is no Greb fight footage available and I am just too damn broke at the moment to afford the Greb book, I do a lot of research online, which is a terrific source. But since I ran across this idiotic story I have been racking my brain trying to solve this. Why does it mean so much to me? I don't really know. I am a Greb fan and just can't buy that this guy I have read so much about would actually ask to be carried. Imagine you read that Foreman threw his fight against Ali or Sugar Ray Robinson had 100 fixed fights. It is just mind boggling.

Can you somehow post these articles or post a link? It would be greatly appreciated. If not, thanks anyway for your help, guy. :good

[djanders]

Absolutely! You may have just saved me from a stroke.:twisted:
Since there is no Greb fight footage available and I am just too damn broke at the moment to afford the Greb book, I do a lot of research online, which is a terrific source. But since I ran across this idiotic story I have been racking my brain trying to solve this. Why does it mean so much to me? I don't really know. I am a Greb fan and just can't buy that this guy I have read so much about would actually ask to be carried. Imagine you read that Foreman threw his fight against Ali or Sugar Ray Robinson had 100 fixed fights. It is just mind boggling.

Can you somehow post these articles or post a link? It would be greatly appreciated. If not, thanks anyway for your help, guy. :good

I understand that completely! You are a real boxing fan! As a classic as well as a modern boxing fan, you start to care about these boxers, living or dead...and the dead ones are not here to defend themselves! I'm the same, and I would love to read that article, too! :good

[Abdullah]

I understand that completely! You are a real boxing fan! As a classic as well as a modern boxing fan, you start to care about these boxers, living or dead...and the dead ones are not here to defend themselves! I'm the same, and I would love to read that article, too! :good

Yes, this is true. True indeed, my friend. The previous poster made a very good point about the referee never mentioning anything about this. I think he would've heard this conversation. Especially since Tunney reported it as a conversation and not just Greb merely asking to be carried. It was reported something like this...

Greb:
"Gene, don't knock me out"

Tunney:
"Just stay close Harry and I won't hurt you."

You mean to tell me the ref didn't hear that. I am curious if Tunney and Fair made these claims after that referee died. I am not sure, but that would add even more weight to our opinion.

[klompton]

Barton was still alive when Fair made those comments. I dont know what his thoughts were though. Barton was a hell of an interesting character. One of the most important and influential people in boxing in the upper midwest for years. He started out as a boxer (he fought Terry McGovern), went on to training fighters (he is credited with introducing Mike Gibbons to boxing and was an early coach/trainer of his), all the while acting as one of the most respected boxing correspondents in the midwest. He then became a referee and refereed thousands of fights. Finally he served on the Minnesota State Athletic Commission for 27 years as well as the NBA which is now the WBA.

[Abdullah]

Barton was still alive when Fair made those comments. I dont know what his thoughts were though. Barton was a hell of an interesting character. One of the most important and influential people in boxing in the upper midwest for years. He started out as a boxer (he fought Terry McGovern), went on to training fighters (he is credited with introducing Mike Gibbons to boxing and was an early coach/trainer of his), all the while acting as one of the most respected boxing correspondents in the midwest. He then became a referee and refereed thousands of fights. Finally he served on the Minnesota State Athletic Commission for 27 years as well as the NBA which is now the WBA.

Thanks, klompton. That was a very informative post. The NBA to WBA thing, I already knew, but everything else is new to me. I consider myself a boxing historian, but I give you credit, you seem to know quite a lot about the era that I am studying. If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? I am 24, but have been studying the history of the sweet science since I was a young child. Anyway, thanks again for hitting me back.