Could Tunney survived after 10 second count

[burt bienstock]

If Gene Tunney gotten off the floor before the 10 count, instead of 14 or, 15 seconds, would Gene Tunney, have evaded Dempsey's onslaught and survived? Your opinion...

[red cobra]

I've always taken Tunney's word that he could have..I think he would have run like hell even more so..but would have recovered to do the same type of number on Dempsey that he actually did in the Long Count bout.

[Gesta]

Yeah I thought that Gene knew what was going on and was waiting on the count to get up, as it looked like he was looking at the ref' at time and looked aware of his suroundings. A couple of secounds helps but I have the same result.

[Unforgiven]

I think so.

[Mendoza]

Its likely. Two key reasons why.

1 ) Tunney was alert and looking at the ref during the count.

2 ) After the long count of 17 seconds, Tunney legs were fine, and he ran away from Dempsey.

[mcvey]

If Gene Tunney gotten off the floor before the 10 count, instead of 14 or, 15 seconds, would Gene Tunney, have evaded Dempsey's onslaught and survived? Your opinion...

Tunney allways maintained he could have gotten up inside the ten count.

He also said he didn't know if he could have survived Dempsey's onslaught when he did , which seems a pretty fair answer.

Tunney looked clear headed halfway through the count ,watching the referee intently, and his legs were ok when he did arise, his ice cool brain told him what to do when he was upright, and he did it.

[PowerPuncher]

Yes hes just taking his time listening to the refs count taking his time

[turpinr]

he had his eyes on the ref from the second he hit the deck.
yes

[johnmaff36]

Tunney allways maintained he could have gotten up inside the ten count.

He also said he didn't know if he could have survived Dempsey's onslaught when he did , which seems a pretty fair answer.

Tunney looked clear headed halfway through the count ,watching the referee intently, and his legs were ok when he did arise, his ice cool brain told him what to do when he was upright, and he did it.
pretty much it

[Abdullah]

If Gene Tunney gotten off the floor before the 10 count, instead of 14 or, 15 seconds, would Gene Tunney, have evaded Dempsey's onslaught and survived? Your opinion...

Hey, Burt. This is a nice thread that you've started. My opinion on this topic is that Tunney could've survived. I am of the opinion that the whole "long count" issue has been blown way out of proportion. There were a lot of Dempsey fans and bettors in the audience who, of course, sided with Dempsey. The count was long, there is no doubt about that. Some people claim that it was 17 seconds, which just isn't true. It was about 14 or 15 seconds and Tunney was clear-eyed well before he got up. He took the referee's count like any smart fighter should do.

Well Burt, that is my opinion. You know I always enjoy reading your view on things, so get back with me. :good

[Beeston Brawler]

Yes I think so.

As mentioned above he was clearly listening to the referee and was 100% aware of what was going on.

The fact that the referee decided to give him slightly longer than usual is pretty much irrelevant - albeit unfortunate.

[burt bienstock]

Abdullah, Nice to hear from you as always....You remind me of myself ,a hundred years ago...There is an inate love of boxing lore,I sense...I think that Tunney was aware of the count,and would certainly arose by the ten count...But would he have the same ability to backpedal furiously ,without the additional six to seven seconds? We will never know...I also believe were the Dempsey of Toledo,1919 were in that ring in 1927, Tunney dosn't last the round...Eight years, and a three year layoff,tamed the tiger that once was Dempsey...But we will never know,that's for sure...B.B.

[Abdullah]

Abdullah, Nice to hear from you as always....You remind me of myself ,a hundred years ago...There is an inate love of boxing lore,I sense...I think that Tunney was aware of the count,and would certainly arose by the ten count...But would he have the same ability to backpedal furiously ,without the additional six to seven seconds? We will never know...I also believe were the Dempsey of Toledo,1919 were in that ring in 1927, Tunney dosn't last the round...Eight years, and a three year layoff,tamed the tiger that once was Dempsey...But we will never know,that's for sure...B.B.

Burt, I couldn't agree with you more. I didn't mention in my post and a lot of other people fail to mention that this was not a prime Dempsey here. That is another reason why I think Tunney would've survived. Now, prime to prime, I still think Tunney would outbox Dempsey, but if Tunney ever got caught against the ropes the way he did in the rematch, then I think it would be over. Over in a devastating way. The Manassa Mauler had the ability to finish a man like nobody's business. Even the great skilled, hard-chinned Tunney wouldn't be immune.

The love that you sense I have for boxing is absolutely right. Were you a boxing fan your whole life? Since your dad was, I assume you were too. 100 years ago you say, haha. Come on Burt, you have another twenty or so years before you can make that claim. ;) Let's just take it one day at a time. I hope that twenty years from now you are still on East Side Boxing schooling us youngsters on the history of this great sport that we all love. :good

[burt bienstock]

Abdullah,I have been hooked on boxing since a young boy, because of location...As a boy of 6 or so, my parents lived next door to a trainer of the great lt, heavy champion John Henry Lewis..Every night I would go next door and hang out with stablemates of JH Lewismand our neighbor, the boxing trainer...I was forced to spar with whoever was in the house that night,and would always eat a salad with oil, as I still do today..I never met John Henry Lewis, in the apartment by the way...That is how I started ,my passion for boxing and it's great history, so long ago...B.B.

[djanders]

If Gene Tunney gotten off the floor before the 10 count, instead of 14 or, 15 seconds, would Gene Tunney, have evaded Dempsey's onslaught and survived? Your opinion...

If the referee had been properly counting, I think Gene would have gotten up before the 10 count. As it was, it was similar to Ali - Liston 2 and, since Sonny was declared knocked out, Gene should have been, too. If that had happened, I wonder how Dempsey - Tunney 3 would have gone. Then again, with a win, Jack may have retired anyway.

As to whether Gene could have survived the Dempsey attack if he had been forced to rise earlier, who knows? If I had to guess, I would say probably not. When you're dazed, 4 or 5 seconds extra rest and extra time to clear your head can mean a lot. Jack would have been on him 4 or 5 seconds earlier. That much we know for sure. It may have made the difference.

Years later, I spoke with Jack about Gene Tunney. He offered no excuses for either loss. He said Gene beat him fair and square both times! Jack believed, that, in his prime, and properly trained, he would have beaten Gene. I believed him then, and I believe him now.

[Lobotomy]

I don't think the Long Count made any difference in the outcome. Where things would have been different with Toledo Jack is with what happened after he caught Gene with that initial huge hook as Tunney ricocheted off the ropes. The following right-left-right all barely graze Gene's head as he drops to evade further punishment. A peak Dempsey would have landed all three of those punches flush.

Jack had a real "killer instinct." That's why he attempted to wait over Tunney. He knew Gene would beat the ten count. When he dropped Firpo for the last time, he actually did retreat to the farthest corner. If all his follow up punches after that counter right in mid ring had landed with total accuracy, he probably would have walked well away with confidence that Tunney wasn't going to get up in time to beat the count.

[skidd1]

Tunney was a great "thinking" fighter.His head looked clear to me.I will go with his assesment of the fight as a "who knows" if the count was right.
Tunney to beat Jack though at that time

[Abdullah]

Abdullah,I have been hooked on boxing since a young boy, because of location...As a boy of 6 or so, my parents lived next door to a trainer of the great lt, heavy champion John Henry Lewis..Every night I would go next door and hang out with stablemates of JH Lewismand our neighbor, the boxing trainer...I was forced to spar with whoever was in the house that night,and would always eat a salad with oil, as I still do today..I never met John Henry Lewis, in the apartment by the way...That is how I started ,my passion for boxing and it's great history, so long ago...B.B.

That's very interesting, Burt. Myself, I became hooked on boxing at a young age and a lot of that had to do with Mike Tyson. When I was about 4 years old, my parents bought us a video game titled "Mike Tyson's Punchout". I liked the game and loved Mike Tyson, even though I don't recall seeing any of his fights at that time. I remember always asking my parents about Mike Tyson as a youngster. I remember seeing the MAD TV magazine cover of him and Buster Douglas around the time that Mike lost to Buster.

The first boxing match that I recall watching was Leonard vs. Hearns II, on a little black and white television in my parent's room. I don't think it was live, but probably pretty recent at the time. My dad fell asleep, but I watched the whole thing. I always had a love for boxing. It just came natural to me. Never football or any other sport, just boxing. I tried watching other sports, baseball, basketball, etc., but could never find even a small percentage of the love that I have for boxing. No love at all would be more accurate. My brothers also had some boxing gloves and I remember having an interest in them. Always wanting to put them on and play boxing with my brothers on the trampoline.

Well, that's the story of my love for the sweet science as a little boy. It is nice to share these stories with one another. Thanks, Burt.

[djanders]

That's very interesting, Burt. Myself, I became hooked on boxing at a young age and a lot of that had to do with Mike Tyson. When I was about 4 years old, my parents bought us a video game titled "Mike Tyson's Punchout". I liked the game and loved Mike Tyson, even though I don't recall seeing any of his fights at that time. I remember always asking my parents about Mike Tyson as a youngster. I remember seeing the MAD TV magazine cover of him and Buster Douglas around the time that Mike lost to Buster.

The first boxing match that I recall watching was Leonard vs. Hearns II, on a little black and white television in my parent's room. I don't think it was live, but probably pretty recent at the time. My dad fell asleep, but I watched the whole thing. I always had a love for boxing. It just came natural to me. Never football or any other sport, just boxing. I tried watching other sports, baseball, basketball, etc., but could never find even a small percentage of the love that I have for boxing. No love at all would be more accurate. My brothers also had some boxing gloves and I remember having an interest in them. Always wanting to put them on and play boxing with my brothers on the trampoline.

Well, that's the story of my love for the sweet science as a little boy. It is nice to share these stories with one another. Thanks, Burt.

Good story!!! :good

[djanders]

My love of boxing started with listening to my Dad and Uncle talking about the first Schmeling against Sharkey fight. Schmeling won that fight, and the heavyweight crown, while on the floor holding his groin from a low blow. My Dad and Uncle didn't like that outcome very much! :D

[Abdullah]

Good story!!! :good

Hey thank you, djanders. Your story is nice too. So your pops and uncle were Sharkey fans I take it?

[djanders]

Hey thank you, djanders. Your story is nice too. So your pops and uncle were Sharkey fans I take it?

When Sharkey was fighting against Schmeling they were Sharkey fans. When Sharkey fought Dempsey, I understand they were rooting for Dempsey. :D

[Abdullah]

When Sharkey was fighting against Schmeling they were Sharkey fans. When Sharkey fought Dempsey, I understand they were rooting for Dempsey. :D

Oh of course. Had I been there, I would have been on the same boat. :good

[Bummy Davis]

Its very hard to say sometimes one extra punch from a puncher can end a fight. It was quite a combination that put Tunney down in the 1st place and Gene went down hard. He got up very nimble and retreated well but a few seconds earlier, Who knows. Sometimes a few seconds to clear your head makes a big difference in a fight, ask Angelo Dundee