Freddie Steele-Why is he forgotten today?

[burt bienstock]

Freddie Steele is so vastly underated today...His record puts him in the top 10 great middleweights, in history I believe..How do you rate Freddie Steele?

[WhataRock]

Pretty highly but probably, more out of ignorance then anything else, not that highly.

He is a bit overlooked, a few guys on here however do talk about him quite often though.

[Bummy Davis]

How high do you rate him Burt and how would he fair against

Greb
Ketchel
SSR
Monzon
Hagler
B-Hop
Graziano
Lamotta

[dpw417]

The film of Steele in the fights against Lesnevich and Dundee is flat out impressive. Looks like a life-taker as a puncher.

[My2Sense]

He gets underrated/forgotten today because his championship tenure came to such a sudden and anti-climactic end. Personally, I think that point may preclude him from a spot in the top 10, but I have him rated in the top 15.

[burt bienstock]

Bummy Davis,Freddie Steele was an alltime great in my opinion..He is sadly forgotten by todays fickle fans...Consider this...In his first 10 years Steele lost just two bouts....Look at some of his victims....Ceferino Garcia,kod twice,Al Hostak, Fred Apostoli,Ken Overlin,Solly Kreiger,Gorilla Jones, Gus Lesnevich, etc..Steele was almost unbeatable until 1938, when rematched with Fred Apostoli, Freddie Steele fractured his sternum...That very painful injury, ended his career as a great fighter...Think of this..In 125 bouts against top opponents Freddie Steele, ko'd 60 fighters ,while only losing FIVE fights...Great boxer puncher...
Greb over Steele[or anyone]
Ketchel over Steele
SRR over Steele
Steel /Monzon pick em
Steele over Hagler
Steele over B- HOP
Steele Ko's Graziano
Steele over Lamotta
P.S. I think the late 1930s and early 1940s, had the best total middleweights of calibre in middleweight history,,,Steele, Apostoli, Zale, Billy Conn,Ken Overlin, Al Hostak, Billy Soose, Charley Burley,Teddy Yarosz,Solly Kreiger,Georgie Abrams,Young Ezzard Charles, Lloyd Marshall,Marcel Cerdan, etc...Any one of them might have been champ today...What a rich era....

[My2Sense]

Look at some of his victims....Ceferino Garcia,kod twice,Al Hostak, Fred Apostoli,Ken Overlin,Solly Kreiger,Gorilla Jones, Gus Lesnevich, etc..

He never beat Hostak.

[Seamus]

He never beat Hostak.

That's my man. Met him on multiple occasions and had drinks.

Georgetown Tavern Rules!

[burt bienstock]

My2sense, I stand corrected.I mistook Fred Apostoli for Al Hostak...On Jan ,1938 Steele fractured his chest sternum in his bout with Fred Apostoli, who Steele Previously defeated...I have read after that injury to his sterum Steele had severe pains on his chest bone from then on...Six months later, the heavily favored Steele was stopped in the first round by the murderous punching Al Hostak...Steele's career ended soon after that loss to Hostak...Thanks for correcting my error.....

[Rock0052]

Bummy Davis,Freddie Steele was an alltime great in my opinion..He is sadly forgotten by todays fickle fans...Consider this...In his first 10 years Steele lost just two bouts....Look at some of his victims....Ceferino Garcia,kod twice,Al Hostak, Fred Apostoli,Ken Overlin,Solly Kreiger,Gorilla Jones, Gus Lesnevich, etc..Steele was almost unbeatable until 1938, when rematched with Fred Apostoli, Freddie Steele fractured his sternum...That very painful injury, ended his career as a great fighter...Think of this..In 125 bouts against top opponents Freddie Steele, ko'd 60 fighters ,while only losing FIVE fights...Great boxer puncher...
Greb over Steele[or anyone]
Ketchel over Steele
SRR over Steele
Steel /Monzon pick em
Steele over Hagler
Steele over B- HOP
Steele Ko's Graziano
Steele over Lamotta
P.S. I think the late 1930s and early 1940s, had the best total middleweights of calibre in middleweight history,,,Steele, Apostoli, Zale, Billy Conn,Ken Overlin, Al Hostak, Billy Soose, Charley Burley,Teddy Yarosz,Solly Kreiger,Georgie Abrams,Young Ezzard Charles, Lloyd Marshall,Marcel Cerdan, etc...Any one of them might have been champ today...What a rich era....

That era of middleweight certainly had an embarrassment of riches talent-wise. I'm pretty new to the classic game and finding out more about Steele over the past year or so has been a real treat, especially since some of his dominance was filmed and is available. Shame he's overlooked now by many, but those who are fans are so adamant about him I don't think he'll ever be forgotten. I feel he'd be able to beat most middleweights and give a massive headache to those he didn't.

[bodhi]

He gets underrated/forgotten today because his championship tenure came to such a sudden and anti-climactic end. Personally, I think that point may preclude him from a spot in the top 10, but I have him rated in the top 15.

Agreed, right where I have him too.

[Boilermaker]

How high do you rate him Burt and how would he fair against

Greb
Ketchel
SSR
Monzon
Hagler
B-Hop
Graziano
Lamotta

Not addressed to me i know, but i think that Steele would have to start favourite against Lamotta, Graziano. I personally like his chances against Ketchell also. I think he would be a live underdog (who id probably back depending on the odds) against Robinson and possibly also Hopkins. I think Hagler, Monzon and Greb are probably a little too good.

[Sister Sledge]

He was a very good fighter. Don't know if he could hang with the top tier of Middleweight champions, but he would be competitive.

[Unforgiven]

Freddie Steele was one of the great middleweights. I rate him highly.
But I'd probably rate Fred Apostoli even higher !

I'm not sure why they get overlooked. Perhaps because they fought in an era of disputed "world title".

I'd expect Freddie Steele to beat Dick Tiger.

[GPater11093]

I know Sweet Pea is a big Steele fan.

I think he looks real good on film. But I havent really researched him enough to pass judgement on his career.

[red cobra]

Because for many boxing fans, boxing only began in the 80's...if a fighter's life work came before that time, many are too lazy to resarch him..because their interest in boxing only involves the "latest and greatest" or those stars that were active in the 80's at the earliest. A grainy, bllack and white film of a 30's or 40's fighter isn't as easy to endure as a modern color film. Also, failure to realize that filming technology, as primitive as it was back then, is more times than not going to fail to give justice to a fighter, like looking at one's reflection in a poor mirror..and unfairly oftentimes, a conclusion is jumped to as to the relative worth of a fighter in question.

[burt bienstock]

red cobra, a great explanation, of some of todays boxing fans..There motto is 'the latest is the greatest'...It is based on laziness,lack of logic,and little imagination...They watch an old clip of an oldtime great boxer,way past his peak, and conclude in their mind, "that old geezer was not as good as todays fighters".They watch old films of the 1920s greats,looking like clumsy puppets, and are unaware that the camera was hand cranked, and out of sync...Let me assure those shallow minded fans that Charley Chaplin ,walked **** us, and punched like we do today...Thanks red cobra for your pertinent imput.....l

[red cobra]

Thanks burt!

[OLD FOGEY]

Freddie Steele is so vastly underated today...His record puts him in the top 10 great middleweights, in history I believe..How do you rate Freddie Steele?


I am not so certain he is underrated. He is in the Hall of Fame. How good was he exactly.

1. He was awesome between 1935 and 1937, but few top fighters had shorter stints at the top. A glance at the yearly Ring ratings shows he pops at #9 in 1934, moves to the top in 1935, 36, & 37, and is gone by 1938.

2. There is no doubt that at his peak Steele defeated a lot of top men in a very short time--with ko's of Ceferino Garcia, Fred Apostoli, Vince Dundee, Gus Lesnevich and Ken Overlin, plus wins over Gorilla Jones, Babe Risko, and Solly Kreiger.

3. That said, statistically that 5 defeats in 142 fights is somewhat bloated by a whole bunch of tomato-cans early in his career.

5. Was Steele the best puncher of his time and weight? Probably, but it is interesting to note that Al Hostak has a better ko percentage (42 of 84 against 60 of 142) despite fighting to a much older age. Hostak also ko'd Babe Risko and Solly Kreiger, each of whom went the distance with Steele, as well as Steele himself in one round. Hostak's ko's of Steele, Risko, and Kreiger are probably as impressive as Steele's ko's of Lesnevich and Dundee, but are they on film?

6. How does Steele's record compare to his contemporaries--Well, he certainly doesn't blow them away. Welterweight champion Young Corbett III lost only 4 fights from 1928 to the end of his career in 1940, all to champions, McLarnin, Broulliard, Conn, and Apostoli, while defeating Young Jack Thompson, Jackie Fields, Ceferino Garcia, Mickey Walker, Gus Lesnevich, Billy Conn, and Fred Apostoli. He defeated Apostoli shortly after Apostoli destroyed Steele. I would rate his record above Steele's. He endured longer and his very best wins are over better men.
Teddy Yarosz also endured longer and beat more good men than Steele--Yarosz fought 11 world champions and defeated 10 of them--Tommy Freeman, Ben Jeby, Pete Latzo, Vince Dundee, Babe Risko, Solly Kreiger, Lou Broulliard, Billy Conn, Ken Overlin, and Archie Moore--as well as contenders Sammy Slaughter, Oscar Rankin, Al Gainer, Nate Bolden, and Lloyd Marshall. I would consider his record more impressive than Steele's.

7. Steele's run at the top came to an abrupt end in 1938 with the Apostoli fight, followed a few months later by the crushing ko loss to Hostak. It is maintained that he broke his sternum against Apostoli. I am skeptical. He came back a month later to score two wins. A broken sternum would make it difficult to even breathe let alone throw hard punches and take them. The only evidence of a broken sternum I have been able to find is a statement by a sparring partner, hardly the most reliable source. I will be interested in someone googling up a better source.

8. Steele was completely washed up at 25.

9. At best, Steele is somewhat along the lines of a Joe Namath. He had great potential and was great for a short while, but it all came apart pretty quick. Injury? Perhaps, but he still didn't stay up there long enough nor defeat enough top men to justify a top 10 or perhaps even top 15 placement in my judgement, and the jury is out about the real extent of his alleged injury.

[OLD FOGEY]

As an addendum--one reason Steele has perhaps been overlooked over the years is that he spent most of his career fighting in a backwater, and when he did come to New York, the boxing capital in those days, he lost badly to Apostoli.

[burt bienstock]

OLD FOGEY...You make valid points about Freddie Steele's longevity at the top...Somewhat like Mike Tyson,in later years...I regardedYoung Corbett, as a southpaw welterweight great, sadly forgotten today also...Freddie Steele , at his peak was a great boxer-combination puncher, considered superior to Al Hostak, as Hostak was a tremendous puncher, a superior Kelly Pavlik ,of today..But Hostak was not a top boxer, as Steele was..Supposedly, Hostak hit so darn hard, he fractured his hands often during his career...As far as the broken sternum injury suffered by Steele during his bout with Fred Apostoli,in 1938. he claimed he had pain thereafter every time he raised his hands.. I believe that shortened his prime. as he was never the same fighter after that... Why other than that injury would a 25 year old Steele,go so downhill, and quit the ring?, Incidentally, I have been so impressed by some clips of Fred Apostoli. Apostoli looked like a great short puncher, watching him..His nemeses was Ceferino Garcia,who had Apostoli's number... Of courseFreddie Steele ko'd Garcia twice...At any event what I see ,watching that era of fighters, lead me to believe that it was a golden age for middleweights...Quantity and talent wise....

[OLD FOGEY]

OLD FOGEY...You make valid points about Freddie Steele's longevity at the top...Somewhat like Mike Tyson,in later years...I regardedYoung Corbett, as a southpaw welterweight great, sadly forgotten today also...Freddie Steele , at his peak was a great boxer-combination puncher, considered superior to Al Hostak, as Hostak was a tremendous puncher, a superior Kelly Pavlik ,of today..But Hostak was not a top boxer, as Steele was..Supposedly, Hostak hit so darn hard, he fractured his hands often during his career...As far as the broken sternum injury suffered by Steele during his bout with Fred Apostoli,in 1938. he claimed he had pain thereafter every time he raised his hands.. I believe that shortened his prime. as he was never the same fighter after that... Why other than that injury would a 25 year old Steele,go so downhill, and quit the ring?, Incidentally, I have been so impressed by some clips of Fred Apostoli. Apostoli looked like a great short puncher, watching him..His nemeses was Ceferino Garcia,who had Apostoli's number... Of courseFreddie Steele ko'd Garcia twice...At any event what I see ,watching that era of fighters, lead me to believe that it was a golden age for middleweights...Quantity and talent wise....

There are excerpts of the Steele-Apostoli fight on youtube and Steele seems to be moving about well and throwing punches with no difficulty. It is kind of hard for me to believe that if he broke his sternum in January, his management would have had him fight two fights in February. I am not certain that would even be physically possible, so I am skeptical about this injury. If anyone has more evidence, I would like to see it.

[SLAKKA]

This book quotes Gorilla Jones as stating Freddie Steele was the best all around fighter I fought. Its one hell of a complement!

John Dennis McCallum
The encyclopedia of world boxing champions since 1882