Wlad vs. the "forgotten generation"??

[GazOC]

How do you guys see Wlad doing against Pinklon Thomas, Tim Witherspoon, Tony Tubbs, John Tate and Greg Page?

(not all at the same time obviously!!)

[Primadonna Kool]

Tony Tubbs, Tony Tucker.........

[Primadonna Kool]

Tony Tucker had everything...

[JonOli]

.....

[JonOli]

Not, sure.

[Dunky McCafferty]

Againt the Wlad who fought last night?

Big Klitty would have em all for breakfast, lunch dinner & supper.

Wlads just too big & too strong for most fighters nowadays, never mind the guys of yesteryear. How could any of em not be worn down by THAT jab, which IMO is the best jab in boxing today.

America not showing the fight tells its own story, they are in the huff cos they know their best fighters today are simply lambs to the slaughter to todays Klits.

Even larry Holmes would have lost to the Wlad who beat Fast Eddie, never mind the Witherspoons of this world.

[p.Townend]

He would find it very hard against Tucker and witherspoon, i see Wlad losing both these fights.Thomas would also be a problem.A lot of these guys were actually very good fighters.Wlad would probably have beaten Berbick,Tubbs,Page,Weaver and Tate he would have found a guy like Carl Williams a problem and the same would go with Tyrel Biggs.Bonecrusher would have loved Wlad,take a guy who is known to run out of gas into the later rounds and then let him have it.Wlad would do ok but he would lose a few.He would fit right in !

[mcguirpa]

He would find it very hard against Tucker and witherspoon, i see Wlad losing both these fights.Thomas would also be a problem.A lot of these guys were actually very good fighters.Wlad would probably have beaten Berbick,Tubbs,Page,Weaver and Tate he would have found a guy like Carl Williams a problem and the same would go with Tyrel Biggs.Bonecrusher would have loved Wlad,take a guy who is known to run out of gas into the later rounds and then let him have it.Wlad would do ok but he would lose a few.He would fit right in !

You know, it's funny. I hear a lot of people saying how this, that and the other fairly average fighter from yesteryear would cause both Klits big problems.

It's nonsense.

The Klits would have been elite in any era. Maybe not so outrageously dominant, but they would have only ever been caused problems by the very, very best. Peak Ali, Foreman, Tyson, Lewis etc. Not the likes of Smith, Witherspoon and Bruno.

[ollyc]

You know, it's funny. I hear a lot of people saying how this, that and the other fairly average fighter from yesteryear would cause both Klits big problems.

It's nonsense.

The Klits would have been elite in any era. Maybe not so outrageously dominant, but they would have only ever been caused problems by the very, very best. Peak Ali, Foreman, Tyson, Lewis etc. Not the likes of Smith, Witherspoon and Bruno.

What, like Puritty, Sanders & Brewster?

[mcguirpa]

What, like Puritty, Sanders & Brewster?

Doesn't mean much in the scheme of things, I'm not the kind of boxing fan who thinks a fighter is 'exposed' after a loss. If that were the case all boxers would be considered shit.

Look at the thread talking about boxers who have only ever lost to the best, they're few and far between.

Between them the Klits are 95(89)-5-0 over careers spanning 15 years. If they were black Americans they'd be the most famous, revered athletes on the planet.

[ollyc]

Doesn't mean much in the scheme of things, I'm not the kind of boxing fan who thinks a fighter is 'exposed' after a loss. If that were the case all boxers would be considered shit.


Nor do I, but your original quote claimed that the Klits would only be troubled by 'the very, very best'.
The above mentioned are far from that.

[mcguirpa]

Nor do I, but your original quote claimed that the Klits would only be troubled by 'the very, very best'.
The above mentioned are far from that.

Obviously what I said comes with a caveat, i.e. you have to apply some common sense. This is heavyweight boxing and anything can and occasionally does happen. The current version of Wladimir hangs at the top table of the heavyweight division in any era. Just like the Vitali of a few years back.

You wouldn't claim that pac isn't an all time elite fighter because of 2 KO's to no marks many moons ago, would you?

[Mazallan]

Wlad will lose first time he steps up in class.

[Diablo]

I think they would fare well in any era. Vitali especially as he brings durability with his size, power, stamina and effective style.

[sidthehat]

Doesn't mean much in the scheme of things, I'm not the kind of boxing fan who thinks a fighter is 'exposed' after a loss. If that were the case all boxers would be considered shit.

Look at the thread talking about boxers who have only ever lost to the best, they're few and far between.

Between them the Klits are 95(89)-5-0 over careers spanning 15 years. If they were black Americans they'd be the most famous, revered athletes on the planet.

Exactly. Like bringing up McCall and Rahman every time you speak about Lewis' accomplishments. Wlad is as different a fighter from he was during those losses as Lewis was after McCall.

[ollyc]

Obviously what I said comes with a caveat, i.e. you have to apply some common sense. This is heavyweight boxing and anything can and occasionally does happen. The current version of Wladimir hangs at the top table of the heavyweight division in any era. Just like the Vitali of a few years back.

You wouldn't claim that pac isn't an all time elite fighter because of 2 KO's to no marks many moons ago, would you?

Of course I wouldn't.
But Pac like Wlad could be troubled by lesser fighters (historically).
Your initial point that I objected to was your blase dismissal of the likes of Bruno and Witherspoon. I could see both of those guys beating Wlad, without needing to land that lucky bingo punch as you alluded to.

[sidthehat]

Of course I wouldn't.
But Pac like Wlad could be troubled by lesser fighters (historically).
Your initial point that I objected to was your blase dismissal of the likes of Bruno and Witherspoon. I could see both of those guys beating Wlad, without needing to land that lucky bingo punch as you alluded to.

The chances of Bruno or Witherspoon beating Klitschko are way different. Bruno only was competitive against him because of Terrible Tim's drug problems. Tim at his best would have destroyed Bruno and had a slight chance against Wlad.

Either Klitschko 100% stops Bruno on his feet in the second half of the fight.

[UndisputedUK]

He would find it very hard against Tucker and witherspoon, i see Wlad losing both these fights.Thomas would also be a problem.A lot of these guys were actually very good fighters.Wlad would probably have beaten Berbick,Tubbs,Page,Weaver and Tate he would have found a guy like Carl Williams a problem and the same would go with Tyrel Biggs.Bonecrusher would have loved Wlad,take a guy who is known to run out of gas into the later rounds and then let him have it.Wlad would do ok but he would lose a few.He would fit right in !

"take a guy who is known to run out of gas into the later rounds and then let him have it" - Classic :good

[Flea Man]

Weaver could whack.

Post Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Holy, Bowe and Lewis are the only guys I'd definitely favour. The aforementioned Heavies (by Gaz) were too inconsistent for me to pick whole-heartedly.

Question is how would Big Frank do. Good jab, size and power.

[BoxingFanNo1]

Even larry Holmes would have lost to the Wlad who beat Fast Eddie, never mind the Witherspoons of this world.

Easy there Dunky, you on the single malts?

[JonOli]

I think the likes of Morrison were probably better than what we see today, Wlad, Vit aside.

At least you would have known a fight was going to take place.

This KO was brutal though:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[sean]

witherspoon IMO was the best of the rest in the 80`s heavies after tyson and holmes .

i think his abilty to soak up wlads punches and his big overhand right landing on the top of wlads head a few times would trouble wlad, albeit his cross arm defense would leak v wlads height /reach and correctly thrown punches and he would be outjabbed.

but he was a good fighter.

pinklon thomas most probably behind witherspoon , but he was short lived, drugs fucking up his career.

good all around fighter who would hang tough but be stopped by wlad.

page and tubbs had abilty, but they loved there cakes to much and would be picked off from the outside, withoput the foot speed to get in close.

carl williams was talented but fragile.

john tate , big fat man but not that good, his size an advantage, but not against wlad and i see him falling hard

weaver /dokes/bey/ etc etc small like chambers and dealt with the same way.

wlad would alsways be indanger of having a big punch catching him clean and being ko`d, but on paper IMO if he had fought holmes opponents he would have been more dominant than holmes was fighting the exact same opposition.

prime holmes , up for it , in shape and focused beats wlad of today in a hard fight, but people forget holmes was not up for it, 90% of the time and coasted in fights and underprepared many times leading to closer fights than he needed to be in.

overall witherspoon 30% chance and holmes 55 % chance of beating wlad.

i think early tyson aggression/intensity and will to win would have gotten wlad out of there early.

[sidthehat]

Good assessment Sean.

[Dunky McCafferty]

Easy there Dunky, you on the single malts?

Now way Jose. I just thought I would throw a grenade into the debate, but I believe what I said.
Holmes through his moaning about how badly hes been treated now has Joe public fooled into thinking he was a true ATG, he was never as good as that.
I have watched most of his fights, have read his book, hell I like the guy!

He wasnt an ATG heavyweight though, as closer inspection of his record confirms.
He is just a guy who has cried so much about not being given the credit he deserves, he now gets too much credit if you catch my drift. He was a solid champ, but guys like Lewis & the Klits would have beaten him.

I can go into more detail if need be, but a proper look at his record tells its own story without me having to go into detail.