What if Terry Norris came along in the golden age of welterweights

[redrooster]

Imagine a young Terry Norris coming along during an earlier era, roughly ten years before. This is how envision his career emerging.

Young Terry Norris turns pro after a modest amateur career and is introduced as a 147 pounder where he hopes to make the big money. It takes him years but after building and developing his skills, builds himself into a half respected contender.

The current title holder is the legendary Sugar Ray leonard-undisputed Welterweight champion of the world. In his last 5 defenses he has destoyed the Hitman Thomas Hearns, aced Bruce Finch, Roger Stafford, Milton McCrory and decisioned highly respected Donald Curry. In addition, he brutally stops Aaron Pryor who some say he was avoiding.

Now it is Terry's turn for his shot. He is given virtually no chance against the legend. Sportswriters all taking a line from one another saying "Terry Norris? Who's THAT? Who's he ever fought? Ray Leonard has beaten LEGENDS. Why did you see what he did to that kid Hearns? Norris will wish he'd never asked for a shot at the title"

But young Terry Norris is not deterred. He demonstrates poise and speed the likes of which may even exceed that of leonard himself.

It is close after ten rounds. Terry knows he has to put into high gear and closes the show strongly - scoring two KD's to lock the decision.

In a gracious gesture, Terry agrees to a rematch but this time wins more one sidedly. Ray Leonard remarks "I was just having a bad night"

In order to recapture some of his lost glory and rebuild his reputation, Ray hits the comeback trail by moving up and winning the 154 pound title a second time, beating Mike McCallum on points and turning back the challenge of young Julian Jackson in a display of speed that rivals Norris himself. Though Jackson is clearly the stronger of the two, Ray's is clearly the more skilled. He evades the clumsy swings of the crude puncher and as Jackson begins to tire, Ray finds the mark with a perfect right to the chin. Jackson staggers back to the ropes and Leonard pounces furiously with 50 unanswered punches

Terry who is sitting in the audience remarks "he reminded me of myself in there tonight"

As for our young new title holder, he goes on to manhandle Donald Curry, and decisons Simon Brown in a shutout.

After two masterful defenses, Terry picks up the mike and proclaims "what can I say? It was the SPEED that beat them!" and eyes a third match with Ray leonard scheduled for September 1986

For the first time however, Norris is made the solid favorite based on the outcomes of their last two fights.

Ray leonard is DETERMINED not to lose a third time and vows to reverse the sting of the first two losses. However, even at the new weight at which he is competing at, he cannot overcome the speed and sharp hitting of Norris. Ray hits the canvas in rounds 6 and 11 and has missed his mark not by inches but by feet. Coming out for round 12, Leonard's eyes seem dulled, deep down he knows he can no longer win and looks to last the remainder of the fight on his feet as Terry sweeps the last 4 rounds

leoanrd admits to his fans "it was like trying to hit Willie Pep. Terry has truly mastered the art of hit and don't get hit"

Leonard would go on to more success in his career, much of his skills and sharpness intact - winning 5 and losing one-a rematch with Thomas Hearns for Hagler's vacant middleweight title.

Their final fight comes on November 1988. Terry, the recent loser in a title fight to knockout artist Julian Jackson, agrees to a ten round fight with Ray but the result is the same though this time it is somewhat closer with Norris winning by a margin of two points

[Addie]

Ray Leonard TKO7 Terry Norris
Thomas Hearns KO1 Terry Norris
Wilfred Benitez UD15 Terry Norris

[redrooster]

Ray Leonard TKO7 Terry Norris
Thomas Hearns KO1 Terry Norris
Wilfred Benitez UD15 Terry Norris

I'm sorry but that doesnt ring true. I am taking data from their actual fight and projecting into the past with slippage and age taken into account

[Addie]

I'm sorry but that doesnt ring true. I am taking data from their actual fight and projecting into the past with slippage and age taken into account

Point taken.

Ray Leonard KO1 Terry Norris.

[Addie]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Addie]

What a glass-jawed joke.

[lefthook31]

Norris never had an ATG chin, and it went to total shit later in his career, look how hes almost KO'd by a jab in that clip. His chin would have been exposed by greater fighters much quicker at any point in his career.

[Addie]

Norris never had an ATG chin, and it went to total shit later in his career, look how hes almost KO'd by a jab in that clip. His chin would have been exposed by greater fighters much quicker at any point in his career.

You're making far to much sense for Rooster. You're confusing him.

[Addie]

There's only one way to deal with Rooster, and that's by blitzing him with Norris' chin getting shattered.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Addie]

Ray challenged Norris, not the other way around but you trying to make it sound like Norris got to call the shots with Ray waiting at his mercy for a title shot. leonard 3-1. still couldnt pull it off. that's how gr8 Norris was

Ray was fast

Norris was faster

154 pound defenses: Norris-13. SRL-0

ray was gr8

Norris was gr8er

That's a post on Youtube. That has to be Rooster.

[redrooster]

What a glass-jawed joke.

sour grapes over the fact that Terry really was a fistic genius whom many, not just Ray Leoanrd, could not figure out in time.

Blame it on the hand and footspeed. Terry just has that rare ability to strike before the opponent realizes it, and move back out of range. Norris proved that as Hector Camacho proved it, as Roy Jones proved time and time again.

I wouldnt even complain if I were you. I put in the extra effort to make Ray look better than he is. I dont know if he could really take out McCallum and Jackson; I am just giving him the benefit of the doubt. But even if he could (which he might) he wouldnt get by Norris. There is no way he could win because of Terry's speed

[redrooster]

That's a post on Youtube. That has to be Rooster.


Well whoever that poster was, he knew his boxing I'll say that for him.

Terry does have more on the ball when it comes to defenses. I think ray would put up a good fight in a chess match for a few rounds. I really do.

But Terry is just a little bit tougher, has better stamina and fights at a faster pace. This would benefit him more as the action heats up. Well, you saw what happened

[Addie]

sour grapes over the fact that Terry really was a fistic genius whom many, not just Ray Leoanrd, could not figure out in time.

Blame it on the hand and footspeed. Terry just has that rare ability to strike before the opponent realizes it, and move back out of range. Norris proved that as Hector Camacho proved it, as Roy Jones proved time and time again.

I wouldnt even complain if I were you. I put in the extra effort to make Ray look better than he is. I dont know if he could really take out McCallum and Jackson; I am just giving him the benefit of the doubt. But even if he could (which he might) he wouldnt get by Norris. There is no way he could win because of Terry's speed

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Is Ray Leonard more competitive than Super Troy Waters?

[BENNY BLANCO]

Ray Leonard TKO7 Terry Norris
Thomas Hearns KO1 Terry Norris
Wilfred Benitez UD15 Terry Norris I have no problem with you picking Leonard and Hearns over Norris but Benitez has zero chance against Terry, in fact I don't even think a fight between them would be all that competitive, Terry beats Benitez by 10th round stoppage. We all know I pick Terry even over a prime Leonard. A fight with Hearns at 154 is 50/50 in my view, both have the chance to crack each others chin.

[Addie]

I have no problem with you picking Leonard and Hearns over Norris but Benitez has zero chance against Terry, in fact I don't even think a fight between them would be all that competitive, Terry beats Benitez by 10th round stoppage. We all know I pick Terry even over a prime Leonard. A fight with Hearns at 154 is 50/50 in my view, both have the chance to crack each others chin.

Which is why you shouldn't talk anymore.

[lefthook31]

I like Norris though. He had good skills, and took chances despite his bad chin so you gotta give the guy credit for that. I think he could have beaten some of the fighters he lost to via KO had he boxed smarter.

[bodhi]

The 80s were not the golden age of welterweights :bart

[redrooster]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Is Ray Leonard more competitive than Super Troy Waters?

Ray leonard is more skilled than Watters but as you saw, Terry made the most of his chance when given it. he fought a strict, dispilined fight plan as outlined by his trainers Sanchez and Stoyanovich.

When Terry gets into a brawl he makes mistakes but when he uses all of his natural gifts as we saw in the Brown rematch, he is near perfect

I dont think Ray knew what hit him and taken a bit off guard. He may have know it was coming but even so, by round three it was too late for adjustments because the damage inflicted by our young hero. Terry set the tone and Ray simply could not get outside the groove if you know what I mean. Ray still did better than I expected

No disrespect, just giving the facts.

[Addie]

I don't have a problem with Terry Norris, but I've tried to talk sense to Rooster and Blanco before but they've got a few screws loose. I don't even bother any more.

[BENNY BLANCO]

Which is why you shouldn't talk anymore. I have every right to talk, I'm not being a troll, I'm just expressing my opinion. The very non-special Iran Barkley shattered Hearns chin but now its out of the realm of possibility for Norris to do so?...Again that fight is 50/50.

[redrooster]

Which is why you shouldn't talk anymore.

All opinions on this forum are encouraged to be expressed and highly valued

[bodhi]

All opinions on this forum are encouraged to be expressed and highly valued

But in the end the only one that counts is mine :good :yep :D

[BENNY BLANCO]

Ray leonard is more skilled than Watters but as you saw, Terry made the most of his chance when given it. he fought a strict, dispilined fight plan as outlined by his trainers Sanchez and Stoyanovich.

When Terry gets into a brawl he makes mistakes but when he uses all of his natural gifts as we saw in the Brown rematch, he is near perfect

I dont think Ray knew what hit him and taken a bit off guard. He may have know it was coming but even so, by round three it was too late for adjustments because the damage inflicted by our young hero. Terry set the tone and Ray simply could not get outside the groove if you know what I mean. Ray still did better than I expected

No disrespect, just giving the facts. Great post Rooster and as you pointed out awhile ago when Leonard couldn't find an opening he did nothing as shown in the early and middle stages of the Hearns fight. And Ray would struggle to find openings on Terry and Terry had stamina for days so he cant count on Terry tiring out.

[Addie]

Great post Rooster and as you pointed out awhile ago when Leonard couldn't find an opening he did nothing as shown in the early and middle stages of the Hearns fight. And Ray would struggle to find openings on Terry and Terry had stamina for days so he cant count on Terry tiring out.

:lol::lol::lol:

[lefthook31]

But in the end the only one that counts is mine :good :yep :D
:D Yeah well some guys on this forum refuse to accept anyones opinion.

[Addie]

I quite like opinions, just not those expressed by Blanco and Rooster when Norris is being discussed.

[lefthook31]

I quite like opinions, just not those expressed by Blanco and Rooster when Norris is being discussed.
Im not referring to you Addie, dont be so self conscious. :hey

[Addie]

Im not referring to you Addie, dont be so self conscious. :hey

Regardless, my point was well made. I'm not usually this ignorant, but people aren't usually this stupid.

[godking]

I'm sorry but that doesnt ring true. I am taking data from their actual fight and projecting into the past with slippage and age taken into accountGuys who get kod by jabs wont last against Hearns.

[lefthook31]

Guys who get kod by jabs wont last against Hearns.
Yeah that pretty much sums it up

[BENNY BLANCO]

Guys who get kod by jabs wont last against Hearns.Guys who get ko'd by glorified journeymen like Iran Barkley won't last against Norris.

[Addie]

...And guys who almost get sparked by Troy Waters won't last against Ray Leonard.

[Addie]

Guys who get ko'd by glorified journeymen like Iran Barkley won't last against Norris.

Norris would have spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair if he got hit on the chin by Barkley.

Hearns was at his physical peak when he fought Barkley, you make a compelling argument. :dead

[ricardoparker93]

Why is this even a debate? Norris' chin is pure china.

[BENNY BLANCO]

Norris would have spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair if he got hit on the chin by Barkley.

Hearns was at his physical peak when he fought Barkley, you make a compelling argument. :dead Doesn't change the fact as who Barkley was as a fighter and that was a glorified journeyman. And Terry eats Barkley alive like so many others have done so.

[rekcutnevets]

I can understand part of Rooster's frustration in that Leonard was still a live opponent when he faced Norris. Leonard should be considered a plus on Norris' career. Leonard was past it though, and facing someone he needed all he ever had to defeat head to head. Norris can't compete with Leonard's resume. Leonard has Duran, Benitez, and Hearn's on his. I know Rooster will claim that Norris has Leonard on his, but I'm not wasting my time with that one.

The thing that really bothers me is that Norris having a weak chin gets blown out of proportion. Norris' chin was not rock solid by any means, but if all it took was a decent punch then Castro would have knock him out. Norris stood in front of Castro, backing him up and trading for much of that fight. Castro could hit a little. John David Jackson and 80+ other opponents can attest to that. Castro was strong enough that he won a cruiserweight title later in his career.

[Addie]

Doesn't change the fact as who Barkley was as a fighter and that was a glorified journeyman. And Terry eats Barkley alive like so many others have done so.

Barkley a glorified Journeyman? The three-weight world champion?

...Besides, journeyman have been known to almost knock Norris out cold.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[lefthook31]

Doesn't change the fact as who Barkley was as a fighter and that was a glorified journeyman. And Terry eats Barkley alive like so many others have done so.
Well Keith Mullings wasnt much more of a journeyman himself. Cmon you gotta get the timing of these fights right.

[lefthook31]

Barkley a glorified Journeyman? The three-weight world champion?

...Besides, journeyman have been known to almost knock Norris out cold.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

No they have.

[BENNY BLANCO]

Barkley a glorified Journeyman? The three-weight world champion?

...Besides, journeyman have been known to almost knock Norris out cold.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] Waters wasn't a journeyman, he was just a contender type who happen to knock Terry down. Terry ended up giving him 32 stitches anyway.

[BENNY BLANCO]

No they have.Yes, when he was a completely shot fighter who could barely pronounce his own name.

[Addie]

Waters wasn't a journeyman, he was just a contender type who happen to knock Terry down. Terry ended up giving him 32 stitches anyway.

Did this clown just call Barkley a journeyman whilst also talking up Troy Waters?

[Addie]

Yes, when he was a completely shot fighter who could barely pronounce his own name.

Leonard was prime when he fought Norris then. :lol:

[lefthook31]

Yes, when he was a completely shot fighter who could barely pronounce his own name.
Well thats kind of the point isnt it? One of you guys was saying Leonard was still 100% when he faced Norris, and as you stated above, these boxer mover types go downhill pretty quick once they start fading.

[BENNY BLANCO]

Leonard was prime when he fought Norris then. :lol: And again find me a post where I said Leonard was prime against Norris, please find one post, but hey your not going to find it cause I never said he was. What I did say was, yes Leonard was past his prime but not a shot fighter as his fans try to claim.

[allenko1]

OP was original and entertaining but, Addie is right. wait what?...

[PowerPuncher]

Its a good question, Norris has some ATG talents but could make mistakes and had a shakey chin. I think he certainly beats Duran, Cuevas and Benitez if hes up for them. I would favour Leonard and Hearns to get to his chin though, although who knows maybe he'd always have Leonards number, I doubt it but its a possibility easily dismissed, that was a hell of a performance

[BENNY BLANCO]

Its a good question, Norris has some ATG talents but could make mistakes and had a shakey chin. I think he certainly beats Duran, Cuevas and Benitez if hes up for them. I would favour Leonard and Hearns to get to his chin though, although who knows maybe he'd always have Leonards number, I doubt it but its a possibility easily dismissed, that was a hell of a performance Good post Double-P. Thing is that Norris wasn't a welterweight so all these match ups would have to be at 154 to get the best out of Terry. And I agree that he beats Cuevas, Benitez, Duran at 154, all three were great fighters but none have a chance at Terry at 154. I think Terry would always have Ray's number in the same vein that Barkley had another ATG number in Hearns.

[natonic]

Great post Rooster and as you pointed out awhile ago when Leonard couldn't find an opening he did nothing as shown in the early and middle stages of the Hearns fight. And Ray would struggle to find openings on Terry and Terry had stamina for days so he cant count on Terry tiring out.

Benny, Benny, Benny. Every time I try to take you off my ignore list, you pull yourself back in.

[Addie]

Good post Double-P. Thing is that Norris wasn't a welterweight so all these match ups would have to be at 154 to get the best out of Terry. And I agree that he beats Cuevas, Benitez, Duran at 154, all three were great fighters but none have a chance at Terry at 154. I think Terry would always have Ray's number in the same vein that Barkley had another ATG number in Hearns.

:lol:

[Addie]

Benny, Benny, Benny. Every time I try to take you off my ignore list, you pull yourself back in.

:lol::lol: Quality!

[PowerPuncher]

Good post Double-P. Thing is that Norris wasn't a welterweight so all these match ups would have to be at 154 to get the best out of Terry. And I agree that he beats Cuevas, Benitez, Duran at 154, all three were great fighters but none have a chance at Terry at 154. I think Terry would always have Ray's number in the same vein that Barkley had another ATG number in Hearns.

I think his style is perfect to beat Benitez much like Leonard beat him. Duran/Cuevas just too small past their best. Hearns I think is likely all wrong for him but I wouldnt completely write him off given Norris had the speed/power to bother Hearns chin himself

Anyway maybe another good thread would be Norris v the WWs of his time, who I think he largely has a better shot to dominate against. I think he could have been the first to beat Whitaker, I think his speed would see him land first on Tito and he could win that, Ike is too ponderous to beat him and he might have had the style to do a younger DLH to. I wonder bet a load

Another thing about Norris is he was probably the type who needed to be hyped for a fight, I dont think he'd have lost to Simon if he was up for it, I dont think he'd ake the same mistakes.

Good movie Dead Prezs :good

[redrooster]

Guys who get ko'd by glorified journeymen like Iran Barkley won't last against Norris.

that's true. Hearns did tend to get shaken and it didnt take much to do the job. Norris-Hearns could go either way

[redrooster]

...And guys who almost get sparked by Troy Waters won't last against Ray Leonard.

and guys who get decked by smaller men like Howard will most likely get decked by Norris..and then drop the decision. Norris is much quicker on the draw

[BENNY BLANCO]

I think his style is perfect to beat Benitez much like Leonard beat him. Duran/Cuevas just too small past their best. Hearns I think is likely all wrong for him but I wouldnt completely write him off given Norris had the speed/power to bother Hearns chin himself

Anyway maybe another good thread would be Norris v the WWs of his time, who I think he largely has a better shot to dominate against. I think he could have been the first to beat Whitaker, I think his speed would see him land first on Tito and he could win that, Ike is too ponderous to beat him and he might have had the style to do a younger DLH to. I wonder bet a load

Another thing about Norris is he was probably the type who needed to be hyped for a fight, I dont think he'd have lost to Simon if he was up for it, I dont think he'd ake the same mistakes.

Good movie Dead Prezs :good I agree with everything you said Double-P. I favor Norris over all those fighters you mentioned, even my childhood hero Trinidad. Whitaker knew better than to fight Norris which is why he chose the limited Julio Cesar Vasquez to win his title at 154. I favor McCallum over Norris due to size and great punch resistance but Terry would give a good account of himself against McCallum and not get blitzed like my man Julian Jackson unfortunately. Hearns like I said is 50/50.

[techks]

I agree with everything you said Double-P. I favor Norris over all those fighters you mentioned, even my childhood hero Trinidad. Whitaker knew better than to fight Norris which is why he chose the limited Julio Cesar Vasquez to win his title at 154. I favor McCallum over Norris due to size and great punch resistance but Terry would give a good account of himself against McCallum and not get blitzed like my man Julian Jackson unfortunately. Hearns like I said is 50/50.
Whitaker even struggled against Vasquez mainly due to it being a rough fight. I have it it's pretty ugly but somehow entertaining like Pep-Saddler but maybe not that bad. I agree with both of you that Terry could've been the first to fairly beat Pernell. Not saying that just because I'm a fan of Norris but I'm also a fan of Whitaker's:good.

[redrooster]

Great post Rooster and as you pointed out awhile ago when Leonard couldn't find an opening he did nothing as shown in the early and middle stages of the Hearns fight. And Ray would struggle to find openings on Terry and Terry had stamina for days so he cant count on Terry tiring out.

Thank you brother Bennie.

You have all borne witness how I have elevated Leonard's status to conqueror of Pryor, Curry, and even McCallum and Jackson but this fight with Norris boils down to styles.

Between two boxers, most often the faster of the two is going to win as we saw between Camacho and Howard Davis

Ray had his chance. He had the vastly superior experience, his five titles, and came in as the overwhelming favorite. I can see why everyone was expecting Ray to add another one and continue the dynasty but let's remember, this fight wasnt even close. Ray's combinations were working but what good if you have an opponent that wont stand there for him to hit?

It' was Terry's speed and movement that won him the day. Ray seems to have real problems with the more multi talented boxer punchers

Had Ray won a close decision or even lost a close decision, I could then project leonard as the winner going back to the glory days of the welterweight division but after vewing the mastery of Norris, how can I?

I look at the Holmes-Ali fight in which Ali really was shot, and I still can't say proof positive, that Ali would beat Larry.

I think that relying on Norris' chin to let him down when he made 13 sucessful defenses, is just too much to hope for.

[sweet_scientist]

I agree with everything you said Double-P. I favor Norris over all those fighters you mentioned, even my childhood hero Trinidad. Whitaker knew better than to fight Norris which is why he chose the limited Julio Cesar Vasquez to win his title at 154. I favor McCallum over Norris due to size and great punch resistance but Terry would give a good account of himself against McCallum and not get blitzed like my man Julian Jackson unfortunately. Hearns like I said is 50/50.

I suppose he could have chosen guys that were beating Norris around the time like Santana and Brown. Instead he chose the limited Vasquez. :good

[MAG1965]

Terry's skills are great and he is fast, but his chin just does not hold up against the top guys.

[BENNY BLANCO]

I suppose he could have chosen guys that were beating Norris around the time like Santana and Brown. Instead he chose the limited Vasquez. :good
I don't blame Pernell for fighting Vasquez instead of Norris, but he did choose to fight Vasquez over Norris knowing that he couldn't beat Norris.

And yeah Santana had a lot to be proud of after he faked injury twice to "win" and "defend" the WBC title.:nut

[itrymariti]

Imagine a young Terry Norris coming along during an earlier era, roughly ten years before. This is how envision his career emerging.

Young Terry Norris turns pro after a modest amateur career and is introduced as a 147 pounder where he hopes to make the big money. It takes him years but after building and developing his skills, builds himself into a half respected contender.

The current title holder is the legendary Sugar Ray leonard-undisputed Welterweight champion of the world. In his last 5 defenses he has destoyed the Hitman Thomas Hearns, aced Bruce Finch, Roger Stafford, Milton McCrory and decisioned highly respected Donald Curry. In addition, he brutally stops Aaron Pryor who some say he was avoiding.

Now it is Terry's turn for his shot. He is given virtually no chance against the legend. Sportswriters all taking a line from one another saying "Terry Norris? Who's THAT? Who's he ever fought? Ray Leonard has beaten LEGENDS. Why did you see what he did to that kid Hearns? Norris will wish he'd never asked for a shot at the title"

But young Terry Norris is not deterred. He demonstrates poise and speed the likes of which may even exceed that of leonard himself.

It is close after ten rounds. Terry knows he has to put into high gear and closes the show strongly - scoring two KD's to lock the decision.

In a gracious gesture, Terry agrees to a rematch but this time wins more one sidedly. Ray Leonard remarks "I was just having a bad night"

In order to recapture some of his lost glory and rebuild his reputation, Ray hits the comeback trail by moving up and winning the 154 pound title a second time, beating Mike McCallum on points and turning back the challenge of young Julian Jackson in a display of speed that rivals Norris himself. Though Jackson is clearly the stronger of the two, Ray's is clearly the more skilled. He evades the clumsy swings of the crude puncher and as Jackson begins to tire, Ray finds the mark with a perfect right to the chin. Jackson staggers back to the ropes and Leonard pounces furiously with 50 unanswered punches

Terry who is sitting in the audience remarks "he reminded me of myself in there tonight"

As for our young new title holder, he goes on to manhandle Donald Curry, and decisons Simon Brown in a shutout.

After two masterful defenses, Terry picks up the mike and proclaims "what can I say? It was the SPEED that beat them!" and eyes a third match with Ray leonard scheduled for September 1986

For the first time however, Norris is made the solid favorite based on the outcomes of their last two fights.

Ray leonard is DETERMINED not to lose a third time and vows to reverse the sting of the first two losses. However, even at the new weight at which he is competing at, he cannot overcome the speed and sharp hitting of Norris. Ray hits the canvas in rounds 6 and 11 and has missed his mark not by inches but by feet. Coming out for round 12, Leonard's eyes seem dulled, deep down he knows he can no longer win and looks to last the remainder of the fight on his feet as Terry sweeps the last 4 rounds

leoanrd admits to his fans "it was like trying to hit Willie Pep. Terry has truly mastered the art of hit and don't get hit"

Leonard would go on to more success in his career, much of his skills and sharpness intact - winning 5 and losing one-a rematch with Thomas Hearns for Hagler's vacant middleweight title.

Their final fight comes on November 1988. Terry, the recent loser in a title fight to knockout artist Julian Jackson, agrees to a ten round fight with Ray but the result is the same though this time it is somewhat closer with Norris winning by a margin of two points

And then you wake up with a wet patch all over your Norris bed-covers.

[Flea Man]

Norris' chin would let him down throughout the ages.