Fantasy Match-ups thread: Roy Jones vs Ray Robinson.

[slip&counter]

It's my believe that Roy Jones was so much of a freak in his heyday that its very difficult to find anyone in history that nullyfies that computer game speed and beats him, For me the only person to solve this puzzle is the GOAT himself. How do you all see this fantasy match-up?

One thing to think about when we try to fantasy matchup these new age combatants with the pugilists of Robinson's era though. It was very common back then to hop on the scales only several hours before a fight, not like the 30 hours prior we have now. You probably recall from the Raging Bull how he could only chew a steak but spit out the meat because the weigh-in with Genaro was the same day of the bout. Just something i had to ponder when analysing this because now the fighters use this 20 lbs of rehydration as part of their gameplan.

You can choose to have Ray Robinson dance with RJJ over the course of 15 rounds or the modern day 12. For me, If the latter, I've got RJJ rather easily because Ray would've been out of his comfort zone at 168 and especially 175. And I don't think it's fair to even mention Ray and Roy getting it on at 160 because Roy didn't stay there for any extended time because he was too muscular for 160.

The salution? A catchweight at 164. This would have been the Roy right before he moved up 8 lbs and gave Toney those chicken moves. I see this Roy fighting Robinson very cautiously and probably closing it out by 2 or 3 rounds on the cards.

However I'm not even going to try and predict what Ray could've done to Junior with rounds 13 through 15 if we sanction it at a 15 round fight. I see Ray catching up to that video game speed and catching him with the right that turned LaMotta into SAW V.

Thoughts?

[Flea Man]

Bob Foster would decimate Jones at 175.

Whilst I think it's very conceivable that Jones freakish athleticism will see him breaking Robinsons rhythm and punch output, Robinson is the far more proven fighter. He has fast feet to cut the distance, and fast hands and adaptibility to land more shots on Roy than anyone else managed in his prime.

Still think Roy in his prime would not get stopped: fast enough to stay out of danger if troubled, and I'm ifbthe belief that post-Ruiz his legs were shot. Still think he has an air of vulnerability about him, but I'll with Robinson to win on points.

I think Jones has the style to beat Monzon, so I'm not underrating him. Robinson was the greater fighter however, and will not be as easy to bamboozle as some quality opponents were by the phenom that was Roy Jones.

Over 15 rounds, 9-6 Robinson.

[itrymariti]

Jones holds all the cards here, I think: greater speed, greater power, bigger at the weight and comparable skills and timing. Robinson would obviously have his moments, but on the whole Jones would dictate most of the exchanges with his range control and quickness, faster to the punch and faster to the counters. Competitive decision.

[D-MAC]

Its a tough one.:think

Roy would be naturally the bigger fighter and have a bit of reach on Ray (i'd suspect).

Robinson was fast, but not Roy Jones fast.

Ray has a tremendous beard, and while I don't think Prime Roy's is that bad he loses in a battle of "you hit me, I hit you, and we'll see whose last man standing".

Again Ray has the better engine, but Roy's isn't that bad.

Ray hits hard with either hand and hits consistently hard, while Roy can sometimes neglect power in favour of speedy flashy combinations.

I'd say Ray has more of an inside game than Roy, and will make him pay when he gets him trapped.

Roy probably has a ring mobility advantage, and he'll need it, for I suspect Robinson would be the aggressor for most of this fight (but they will swap roles from time to time - Robinson can backfoot it when he wants to, but I cant see him luring Roy into any big traps).

Conclusion: I can see Roy jumping out to an early lead and winning rounds on his amazing handspeed and reflexes, but with Robinson making him pay every chance he can, and they're will be a wearing-down process taking place as well. Roy will be in a couple of points lead after the first six rounds (he's a tremendous counter-puncher, and for the most part he'll have counter-punched his way to a lead), but he'll be slowing down and Robinson will be landing more often with each round. Through the second half of the fight, Robinson increasingly takes command, with Jones reserving himself to sporadic combinations (which look good but aren't slowing the Robinson charge). Think Ray would do enough to take it tight on the cards after 12, and a bit more comfortably after 15. I don't really see any kd's or ko's in this one.

[GPater11093]

Roys odd style and rythm breaks up Robinson early and slows down the punch output ala Gavilan.

Once Ray starts getting going though he has the footspeed to force a pace on Roy, that Roy wont like and he has the offensive arsenal to hit and hurt Roy. I can see a midround KO for Ray

[TFFP]

At what weight? Middleweight? I don't think that was Jones best weight. Even so I'd probably take him to win this fight over 12. 15 may even things up more, its hard to say since Jones has never fought 15 rounds.

[jdawg]

Kind of a strange 1 as Roys best days were the late 90s early 2002 when he was almost literally untouchable, but that was at light heavy. Although Ray is top 5 on surely everyones GOAT middle-weight list (5 middlewieght titles) i still think he was better fighter at welterweight where no1 beat him.

If we're doing this at middle, yes Roy would have a slight size and about 2" reach advantage but, sorry Roy fans but thats where his advantages end. Seeboth these guys possessed quickness of feet and hands that no other in their generation could cope with. They had the agility to make world class fighters look stupid. The trouble for Roy would be that everything he did so well in his prime... Ray did it better.

Roy will start off well throwing his trademark feints and quick combinations but it wouldnt take long for Sugar to suss Roys unorthodox style and plant his fluid style on the fight. Roy will have good moments (Ray was not the best defensive fighter peeps) and take rounds on work-rate, but Robinsons granite chin will absorb anything thrown. With Roy slightly down mid-way through the fight he'll have to chase Ray. With all his obvious skills its easy to 4get that Sugar was a big puncher and threw excellent body shots, not just the traditional side ones but down the middle 2 and this will slow RJs advances as the rounds continue. This'l be where the beautiful speedy combinations of RR will flourish on the frustrated RJ. As Roy comes out in the 10th he'll look to press, throwing shots from those crazy angles and RR on the back-foot he'll walk on to a picturesque hook counter, similar to the 1 that floored Gene Fullmer all thise years ago.

Ok so its not exactly writer of the year shit here but you guys and girls get the point. See while Roy would think he'd be the man here, Ray would punish him for even thinkin it possible. He had the killer instinct, and more to the point the insane abilty to out-box boxers and out-punch punchers. Im not Roy hating here, 97-02 he was a phenom. Beautiful to watch him with his hands by sides, tauntin the mere mortals ala Woods, Grant, Hill and Griffin before unleashing lightening shots from nowhere. It genuinely gets me down to see the shell of the future hof RJ the way he is today, remembering that in his hay-day he was the fastest, most skilled fighter on the planet. But when you make middle-weight fantasy match-ups, Sugar Ray Robinson trumps the lot. 2 fast, ko power in both hands, great chin, big heart and super slick style make him the ultimate complete fighter 4 me.

Now Archie Moore v Roy Jones @ light-heavy im loving that

[Flea Man]

Wow, Archie Moore down a few times early, comes back to knock Jones' head off.

Would be like the Johnson footage we have, only Moore would have to try a little bit harder to get close to Roy. But The Ol' Mongoose is a GENUINE top 15 alltime fighter; he would get there eventually.

[itrymariti]

Jones' prime and his best performance was vs. Toney, no doubt. His legs have been steadily degenerating ever since.

[Flea Man]

Jones' prime and his best performance was vs. Toney, no doubt. His legs have been steadily degenerating ever since.

I reckon they've been truly fucked post-Ruiz.

[turpinr]

what weight would they fight at ?? robinson's best weight was around 150 and jones was a steroid using what ??

[Mazallan]

Roid Jones would win.

[GPater11093]

Against Moore is even worse for Roy Jones. Moore's bob and weave style would get him into range and allow Archie to start a body attack whilst taking less damage then RJJ in the process to wear him down late.

[brown bomber]

Robinson would have blasted him out,.

[Bill Butcher]

160 favours Robinson as he was still in his prime then & even tho Jones was naturally the bigger man, he likely was too green to beat a prime Robinson despite the size factor.

Anywhere above 160 favours Roy as that was his peak & Robinson lost his only fight above MWT to Maxim at 175.

Depends on the weight really as I said above but Robinson was the better fighter p4p.