Dempsey ko Sharkey-art of bodypunching

[burt bienstock]

In 1927, a fading 32 year old Jack Dempsey,much slower than his prime, showed boxing buffs, a glimpse of what persistent body punching can do to an opponent...Young in prime Jack Sharkey was outboxing Dempsey for the first few rounds,but notice those powerful two handed digs to the body,the rough and tough Dempsey gave Sharkey...Vicious shots to the gut led to Sharkeys ko in the seventh round...A seldom used art for todays heavyweights... Your thoughts ?

[techks]

This fight is a perfect example of why you should protect yourself at all times. Sharkey complained to the ref of lowblows and BAM! Dempsey drops him with a left hook.

[PetethePrince]

The art of ball-busting, and not by your wife or gf but Jack Dempsey of all people.

[klompton]

The art of low blows more like it...

[PowerPuncher]

In 1927, a fading 32 year old Jack Dempsey,much slower than his prime, showed boxing buffs, a glimpse of what persistent body punching can do to an opponent...Young in prime Jack Sharkey was outboxing Dempsey for the first few rounds,but notice those powerful two handed digs to the body,the rough and tough Dempsey gave Sharkey...Vicious shots to the gut led to Sharkeys ko in the seventh round...A seldom used art for todays heavyweights... Your thoughts ?

Yes Golota modelled himself on Dempseys great body punching techiques

[Flea Man]

Beautiful left hook to end things though, whether Sharkey was looking or not.

[Unforgiven]

Definitely some of the blows that were bothering Sharkey were perfectly legal.
And certainly there were some serious low blows in there too.
No sympathy for Sharkey though. He was fouling too, throwing low blows. That's how those guys liked to fight, so they cant really complain when they get it.

Dempsey showed a lot of determination in that fight but was quite unimpressive overall, he was just a washed-up fighter really, hanging on with guts and a bit of grit. He had nothing like the spark he had in his prime though, nor the speed.

[mcvey]

The art of low blows more like it...

Sharkey threw more than his share of them during his career,and it was a left hook to the chin that kod him.

[klompton]

Sharkey threw more than his share of them during his career,and it was a left hook to the chin that kod him.


You dont judge one fight based on what someone may or may not have done in his entire career. If a left hook KOd him then why was he crawling around on the canvas holding his groin while he was being counted out...

[mcvey]

You dont judge one fight based on what someone may or may not have done in his entire career. If a left hook KOd him then why was he crawling around on the canvas holding his groin while he was being counted out...

"Sharkey said I hit him when he wasn't looking,well what the hell, why aint you looking?"

[Unforgiven]

You dont judge one fight based on what someone may or may not have done in his entire career. If a left hook KOd him then why was he crawling around on the canvas holding his groin while he was being counted out...

Sounds like something Georges Carpentier would do. :D
But Sharkey gets the benefit of the doubt, being American of course.

[mcvey]

Sounds like something Georges Carpentier would do. :D
But Sharkey gets the benefit of the doubt, being American of course.

You mustn't say that sacre bleu!:oops::oops::oops::oops:

[PetethePrince]

Sharkey threw more than his share of them during his career,and it was a left hook to the chin that kod him.

:rofl

[klompton]

Sounds like something Georges Carpentier would do. :D
But Sharkey gets the benefit of the doubt, being American of course.


Im not high on Sharkey either but at least he didnt try to win every major fight he was in on a foul... if they hadnt fixed it for him in advance.

[burt bienstock]

Watching the Tunney/Dempsey films again I noticed a reason why Tunney was succesful against an aging Dempsey, and Jack Sharkey was not...Tunney in clinches with Dempsey,was always strong enough to wrap his arms over Dempsey's pistons,nullifying Dempseys vaunted body attack...Sharkey not as strong or skillful, could not do this, thus Sharkey's defeat...Tunney was some great heavyweight, that's for sure...

[mcvey]

Tunney had Dempsey in his sights for years ,he practised running backwards in sand , to strengthen his legs .The man was an obsessive where Dempsey was concerned.
Tunney beat Dempsey ,by countering his rushes ,with well timed jabs and crosses ,and when the pace got too hot ,boxing unashamedly on the retreat,all the while sticking that sharp left into Jack's face.

Sharkey met Dempsey at ring centre ,he did not try and glide away from exchanges, he has said himself he was confident of victory,and reverted to his old style ,shoulder roll and counter,it was a totally different strategy than that employed by the fleet Tunney.

Sharkey was undoubtedly in front ,but Dempsey ,heeding his corner's instructions to "keep pounding away at him down stairs", was gradually beginning to take the starch out of the Gob's sails , imo.

[guilalah]

Once upon a lovely time there were (three) youtubes of all eight rounds of Dempsey-Sharkey ....


Here's a thread that was made back when one had easy access to the entire fight, might be worth reading what viewers who saw the whole thing thought:

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[djanders]

Sharkey was ahead on points at the stoppage. But that wasn't the prime Dempsey in there. Dempsey's body punching was starting to turn the tide. A few went low, but that's not unexpected with a body attack strategy. I find it interesting that some people have the perception of Dempsey as a very dirty fighter, even though, during a long career, he never lost a fight by foul.

I appreciate Sharkey's abilities. He was a good heavyweight! With that said, in my opinion, a prime Dempsey would have flattened Sharkey a lot sooner. Although it wouldn't have been as quick, I think a prime Dempsey beats a prime Tunney, too. You need good legs to beat a prime Tunney, and Jack's were gone when they fought. Jack also had back problems when he fought Tunney and Sharkey.

[Lobotomy]

If this had somehow ended without controversy, does anybody who saw the entire fight believe that Sharkey would have made it to the final bell? Dempsey was diminished, but his legal body shots were beginning to take their toll on Sharkey with over half the scheduled rounds remaining.

[djanders]

If this had somehow ended without controversy, does anybody who saw the entire fight believe that Sharkey would have made it to the final bell? Dempsey was diminished, but his legal body shots were beginning to take their toll on Sharkey with over half the scheduled rounds remaining.

I, for one, do not think Sharkey would have made it to the final bell. In fact, I would have been very surprised to see it go even 3 more rounds. Dempsey was starting to get to Sharkey...in my opinion.

[prime]

Dempsey showed a lot of determination in that fight but was quite unimpressive overall, he was just a washed-up fighter really, hanging on with guts and a bit of grit. He had nothing like the spark he had in his prime though, nor the speed.

Amen.

Pretty, opportunistic hook by Dempsey, but personally, I do believe Sharkey was wilting and, based on his obvious histrionics:

a) sought a reprieve from the ref after a not particularly low blow.

b) instinctively used Dempsey's sudden left hook as a way out. He didn't look knocked out; just like a lousy actor.

[choklab]

Watching the Tunney/Dempsey films again I noticed a reason why Tunney was succesful against an aging Dempsey, and Jack Sharkey was not...Tunney in clinches with Dempsey,was always strong enough to wrap his arms over Dempsey's pistons,nullifying Dempseys vaunted body attack...Sharkey not as strong or skillful, could not do this, thus Sharkey's defeat...Tunney was some great heavyweight, that's for sure...


sharky was a bigger guy than tunney im not convinced he wasnt as strong as tunney. wasnt it just that gene kept his cool and used his own experience more inside? I agree tunney studdied dempseys style and had an answer to dempseys inside tricks.
The body attack sapped sharkey, he had no answer inside and dempsey took advantage. Dempsey was crafty at keeping one hand free and pinning sharky upright with his head against sharkeys throat. he would link arms and fall in. it apeared to me even before the ko incident that sharkey was walked back from this position since his footing was sqared up. dempsey was a mean old bastard, his ruthless tactics unsetled sharkey. with one arm trapped, dempsey standing on his toes and hitting him under the elbows sharkey was too angry to respond clearly.

[My2Sense]

Definitely some of the blows that were bothering Sharkey were perfectly legal.
And certainly there were some serious low blows in there too.
No sympathy for Sharkey though. He was fouling too, throwing low blows. That's how those guys liked to fight, so they cant really complain when they get it.



That's how I saw it too. It was a rough fight from two fighters who liked to fight rough, and Sharkey only started to complain because the fight had started to turn against him. He also looked to me like he was hoping to steal the fight on a DQ by complaining about the low blow as he was being counted out. He wasn't hurt enough by the low blow to go down initially from it; yet after he's been dropped by the hook to the chin, while having recovered sufficiently enough from that punch to complain about the low blow, he now is claiming to be too hurt from the earlier low blow to be able to get up. :huh

[Lobotomy]

sharky was a bigger guy than tunney im not convinced he wasnt as strong as tunney. wasnt it just that gene kept his cool and used his own experience more inside? I agree tunney studdied dempseys style and had an answer to dempseys inside tricks.
The body attack sapped sharkey, he had no answer inside and dempsey took advantage. Dempsey was crafty at keeping one hand free and pinning sharky upright with his head against sharkeys throat. he would link arms and fall in. it apeared to me even before the ko incident that sharkey was walked back from this position since his footing was sqared up. dempsey was a mean old bastard, his ruthless tactics unsetled sharkey. with one arm trapped, dempsey standing on his toes and hitting him under the elbows sharkey was too angry to respond clearly.Tunney worked as a lumberjack, with the specific goal of strengthening his hands. Most boxers practiced wood chopping as conditioning, but Gene always took these things to another obsessive level. By the time he took on Dempsey, his tensile strength must have been off the charts. (Have you ever had to cut, saw and split cords of firewood for the winter by hand? Nobody who's ever done this needs to be told what it does for physical strength and muscular endurance, particularly in the hands and forearms. Ali was a dedicated wood chopper, and even Foreman couldn't out muscle him.)

[choklab]

Tunney worked as a lumberjack, with the specific goal of strengthening his hands. Most boxers practiced wood chopping as conditioning, but Gene always took these things to another obsessive level. By the time he took on Dempsey, his tensile strength must have been off the charts. (Have you ever had to cut, saw and split cords of firewood for the winter by hand? Nobody who's ever done this needs to be told what it does for physical strength and muscular endurance, particularly in the hands and forearms. Ali was a dedicated wood chopper, and even Foreman couldn't out muscle him.)


i think your on to something here, the old smaller gloves alowed for more grip in a clinch, you see guys from the day realy clamp onto the other guys elbow with the mits in a way that is no longer as posible with the extra padding. its actualy hard to open the hand now.
woodchoping is exhausting work and theres no doubt the intension is to condition the muscles into using full leverage with each stroke and the vibration from the impact must develop handstrength. it is unlike the technique used in puching however, but im sure the aim is to make one more heavyhanded. there is no doubt lunberjacks and blacksmiths have strong hands and wrists. black smiths also had a reputation for punching hard. much was made of the thickness of ketchels wrists for example. since you hit with the outside of the hands not the palms strenghening the hands is not so esential now?
geting back to boxing i think ring smarts and experience told in the clinches more than actual bull strength. in the case of sharky it was a combination of bad balence, losing his cool and not having an answer for dempseys wrestling tactics. sharkey had strength of punch and arm to knock and bull dempsey around until dempsey changed the range that the fight was fought at.