Difference between defensive footwork and running

[techks]

What's really the difference between the two? I don't think they're the same but can someone really break them down for me? Thanks that'll be much appreciated.

[lora]

Running more describes the mindset of the fighter than technique per se.

Usually i'd call a fighter a runner who was just using constant movement to stay away from trouble and offering next to nothing offensively.

Defensive footwork is the techniques(orthodox or unorthodox) a fighter uses when looking to avoid punches/control distance on the bcakfoot and laterally rather than while initiating.Ideally most world class fighters will be able to seamlessly blend the two.

A runner is using almost nothing but defensive footwork.

[techks]

Running more describes the mindset of the fighter than technique per se.

Usually i'd call a fighter a runner who was just using constant movement to stay away from trouble and offering next to nothing offensively.

Defensive footwork is the techniques(orthodox or unorthodox) a fighter uses when looking to avoid punches/control distance on the bcakfoot and laterally rather than while initiating.Ideally most world class fighters will be able to seamlessly blend the two.

A runner is using almost nothing but defensive footwork.
I like how you stated that. I guess defensive footwork also can set up fighters in great positions to counter too.

[ripcity]

Your a fan of the boxer: Footwork
Your not a fan of the boxer: Running

[KOTF]

Watch two Hopkins fights in Trinidad and Hakkar. In the Trinidad fight you see defensive footwork by Hopkins and in the Hakkar fight, you see loads of "running" by Hakkar.

[techks]

Your a fan of the boxer: Footwork
Your not a fan of the boxer: Running
You have a point.

[techks]

Watch two Hopkins fights in Trinidad and Hakkar. In the Trinidad fight you see defensive footwork by Hopkins and in the Hakkar fight, you see loads of "running" by Hakkar.
I didn't see the Hakkar fight I'll watch it before this year is up.

[lefthook31]

Running more describes the mindset of the fighter than technique per se.

Usually i'd call a fighter a runner who was just using constant movement to stay away from trouble and offering next to nothing offensively.

Defensive footwork is the techniques(orthodox or unorthodox) a fighter uses when looking to avoid punches/control distance on the bcakfoot and laterally rather than while initiating.Ideally most world class fighters will be able to seamlessly blend the two.

A runner is using almost nothing but defensive footwork.
I think you just about nailed it. For example basic stuff here, when I was ready to fight someone I had never seen before, and knowing their experience, I would simply look at their stance whether orthodox or southpaw. If he was an orthodox fighter, I would already have it in my mind I was going to move to my right, away from his righthand because I liked to fight at distance more than coming forward, so I was going to be away from his hook and be able to setup my own righthand easier off the jab while avoiding his, moving laterally and stepping in.

[techks]

I think you just about nailed it. For example basic stuff here, when I was ready to fight someone I had never seen before, and knowing their experience, I would simply look at their stance whether orthodox or southpaw. If he was an orthodox fighter, I would already have it in my mind I was going to move to my right, away from his righthand because I liked to fight at distance more than coming forward, so I was going to be away from his hook and be able to setup my own righthand easier off the jab while avoiding his, moving laterally and stepping in.
Good post aswell. You boxed before? Did you go AMA?

[KTFO]

Running does not exist in the sport of boxing. You either box with techniqual footwork or you don't fight at all and run.

[The Funny Man 7]

The other guys have summed it up pretty well but I'll add my two cents:

Defensive foot work= Meldrix Taylor

Running=Howard Davis jr.

[john garfield]

Watch two Hopkins fights in Trinidad and Hakkar. In the Trinidad fight you see defensive footwork by Hopkins and in the Hakkar fight, you see loads of "running" by Hakkar.

What would you say Andre Dirrell does? K

[Cobra33]

I wouldn't call Howard Davis footwork "running".
You want to see running?Julio Cesar Chavez vs Lonnie Smith.
Defensive footwork?Willie Pastrano vs Harold Johnson.

[PetethePrince]

Running is just trying to survive.

In reality, there is no running in boxing unless you're jumping out of the ring and literally running away.

Or... just moving away to try and survive. There has to be zero offensive effort. You can move and pot shot but this is not running. It's called boxing, and if it's in the squared circle then you should find a way to try neutralizing it.

[techks]

Running is just trying to survive.

In reality, there is no running in boxing unless you're jumping out of the ring and literally running away.

Or... just moving away to try and survive. There has to be zero offensive effort. You can move and pot shot but this is not running. It's called boxing, and if it's in the squared circle then you should find a way to try neutralizing it.
This. Thanks for all the feedback guys! Feel free to keep posting on this thread if ya feel like it.:good

[lefthook31]

Good post aswell. You boxed before? Did you go AMA?
Yeah among other things. Pro sparring partner, trainer for a little while.

[lefthook31]

What would you say Andre Dirrell does? K
What do you think John? I see a guy who wasnt really taught how to clinch or use proper footwork. To me hes too green to be in that tournament. Very talented but not experienced enough to be fighting on that level yet.

[Popkins]

Lora and others have pretty much nailed it so far.

I'll just chip in with another good example:

Defensive footwork - Miguel Cotto vs Antonio Margarito (early-mid rounds)

Running - Miguel Cotto vs Antonio Margarito (mid-late rounds)

There can't be a clearer or more graphic illustration than that fight IMO.

[duranimal]

Lora and others have pretty much nailed it so far.

I'll just chip in with another good example:

Defensive footwork - Miguel Cotto vs Antonio Margarito (early-mid rounds)

Running - Miguel Cotto vs Antonio Margarito (mid-late rounds)

There can't be a clearer or more graphic illustration than that fight IMO.

Camacho/Rosario comes to mind:smoke

Camacho/Boza Edwards also:lol:

[techks]

Yeah among other things. Pro sparring partner, trainer for a little while.
Sweet:good. I go to a boxing gym 1-2 times a week and if I play my cards right I'll be in a tournament at the end of this summer.

[PowerPuncher]

Running is a subjective term, but the act of moving backwards or laterally is a form of defensive footwork.

I would define running as continually moving backwards/circulary away from engagement while not throwing yourself.

Some Durantards will accuse Leonard of running in the rematch, they are confusing schooling with running

[RockyJim]

Footwork: Willie Pep
Running: Vinnie Paz

[Son of Gaul]

Running more describes the mindset of the fighter than technique per se.

Usually i'd call a fighter a runner who was just using constant movement to stay away from trouble and offering next to nothing offensively.

Defensive footwork is the techniques(orthodox or unorthodox) a fighter uses when looking to avoid punches/control distance on the bcakfoot and laterally rather than while initiating.Ideally most world class fighters will be able to seamlessly blend the two.

A runner is using almost nothing but defensive footwork.
:good

[RockysSplitNose]

What's really the difference between the two? I don't think they're the same but can someone really break them down for me? Thanks that'll be much appreciated.

There's a clip on YouTube called 'charley burley analysing genius' or something like that - and that pretty much gives the perfect example of defensive footwork and stance while staying 'in the pocket' as they say - totally different to running really when you see it done by master.

[Jear]

Defensive footwork means moving to avoid punches but remaining in range to counter and be offensive.
Running is staying out of punching range and having little intention of landing blows yourself

[techks]

There's a clip on YouTube called 'charley burley analysing genius' or something like that - and that pretty much gives the perfect example of defensive footwork and stance while staying 'in the pocket' as they say - totally different to running really when you see it done by master.
Yeah it showed his fight with Oakland I saw that pretty great footage I'm glad you brought it up.

[techks]

I guess defensive footwork also can set up fighters in great positions to counter too.

Defensive footwork means moving to avoid punches but remaining in range to counter and be offensive.
Running is staying out of punching range and having little intention of landing blows yourself
I guess I guessed right. :lol: Great post thanks Jear.

[ripcity]

I just got out classed by a better boxer and I need an excuse. He ran.

[Minotauro]

For a great example of defensive footwork and defence in general look at Locche stays in the pocket and seems to be in range at all times but can move, slip and duck anything coming his way due to his feet being at the right place.

[itrymariti]

I didn't see the Hakkar fight I'll watch it before this year is up.

Have a pillow close at hand.

[duranimal]

Running is a subjective term, but the act of moving backwards or laterally is a form of defensive footwork.

I would define running as continually moving backwards/circulary away from engagement while not throwing yourself.

Some Durantards will accuse Leonard of running in the rematch, they are confusing schooling with running

I would'nt accuse Leonard of running, oh no, fleeing the scene more like:yep what with the memory of the Montreal spanking obviously still fresh in his bones he would'nt go anywhere near Duran. He fled !!!:lol:

Younger/bigger man fleeing from the older little man :deal

[teeto]

'RUNNING' is the term which wrongly is deemed the Roberto Duran kryptonite, it is the excessive usage of lateral movement, or just mobility in general. What a versatile boxer like Jose Napoles, Bernard Hopkins or Floyd Mayweather (of the Marquez performance say) does is move around the man constantly, or slip in and out of range to prevent their opponent from being in a punching position. My three examples all employ footwork differently and that's why i chose them, to diversify the range of the description.

[Jear]

I guess I guessed right. :lol: Great post thanks Jear.

Haha sorry mate I missed that one but yes you guessed right

[techks]

Have a pillow close at hand.
I''ll have snacks just in case I find a way to like it. I love this sport so much there are VERY few fights I wouldn't like. I'm a fan of defense but also an enjoyer of many styles and a fan of fighters that come-forward too.

[techks]

Running is a subjective term, but the act of moving backwards or laterally is a form of defensive footwork.

I would define running as continually moving backwards/circulary away from engagement while not throwing yourself.

Some Durantards will accuse Leonard of running in the rematch, they are confusing schooling with running

I would'nt accuse Leonard of running, oh no, fleeing the scene more like:yep what with the memory of the Montreal spanking obviously still fresh in his bones he would'nt go anywhere near Duran. He fled !!!:lol:

Younger/bigger man fleeing from the older little man :deal
Oh god not this again:lol:. Well Im a fan of both Leonard & Duran and could never get myself to watch the second fight between the two.

[techks]

Haha sorry mate I missed that one but yes you guessed right
:goodCool!

[techks]

Winky said it good too starting at 1:45 and ending at about 2:20.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[duranimal]

Oh god not this again:lol:. Well Im a fan of both Leonard & Duran and could never get myself to watch the second fight between the two.

:lol: Believe it or not but i've always liked Ray Leonard, well the WW version, I just don't like the fanboy wankers that rave over him, simple reason it that they actually don't know fuck all about him in regards to his actual fighting style, there just cheerleaders, boxing fashionista's & victims of bar room assaults.

"What a Rock" Rooster & myself are always calling these sweethearts out & asking for evidence of the populer myth that Ray's style was New Orleans.

What we get back is SILENCE:lol:
Which just goes to show 95% of the sugarbaby farts no fuck-all:deal

[techks]

:lol: Believe it or not but i've always liked Ray Leonard, well the WW version, I just don't like the fanboy wankers that rave over him, simple reason it that they actually don't know fuck all about him in regards to his actual fighting style, there just cheerleaders, boxing fashionista's & victims of bar room assaults.

"What a Rock" Rooster & myself are always calling these sweethearts out & asking for evidence of the populer myth that Ray's style was New Orleans.

What we get back is SILENCE:lol:
Which just goes to show 95% of the sugarbaby farts no fuck-all:deal
Go duranimal! Say it how it is.:happy

[Jaws]

I would say running has no fightplan and gives you no chance to win, while true defensive footwork is part of a strategy and sets you up offensively.

[techks]

I would say running has no fightplan and gives you no chance to win, while true defensive footwork is part of a strategy and sets you up offensively.
Very well put thanks for your post.

[Jaws]

Running, Exhibit A:[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[tommygun711]

sure
Running is when a fighter is clearly avoiding the other fighter to stay out of trouble
Defensive footwork like you said can be a few things.
Circling the ring to keep a man off balance
sets your up offensivly
avoids shots
if you punch off when you're moving away, that's not running. like what ali did. he danced, he didn't run. While he was backing off, he was punching. "Runners", don't do that. Although it can still be considered like that. Which I think is bullshit.

[techks]

The other guys have summed it up pretty well but I'll add my two cents:

Defensive foot work= Meldrix Taylor

Running=Howard Davis jr.
Heh I love Taylor! If I get his fights I'll study him further.
I wouldn't call Howard Davis footwork "running".
You want to see running?Julio Cesar Chavez vs Lonnie Smith.
Defensive footwork?Willie Pastrano vs Harold Johnson.
Oh god I don't wanna see running but I have seen Pastrano/Johnson a while back. Great fight.
Lora and others have pretty much nailed it so far.

I'll just chip in with another good example:

Defensive footwork - Miguel Cotto vs Antonio Margarito (early-mid rounds)

Running - Miguel Cotto vs Antonio Margarito (mid-late rounds)

There can't be a clearer or more graphic illustration than that fight IMO.
Yeah I love Cotto but he does run...

Footwork: Willie Pep
Running: Vinnie Paz
Pep is a great example for footwork.
I just got out classed by a better boxer and I need an excuse. He ran.
It can be used as an excuse especially when a slugger loses to a boxer.
For a great example of defensive footwork and defence in general look at Locche stays in the pocket and seems to be in range at all times but can move, slip and duck anything coming his way due to his feet being at the right place.
I saw Locche/Fuji and it was a brilliant display of defense. He even clowned around him.
'RUNNING' is the term which wrongly is deemed the Roberto Duran kryptonite, it is the excessive usage of lateral movement, or just mobility in general. What a versatile boxer like Jose Napoles, Bernard Hopkins or Floyd Mayweather (of the Marquez performance say) does is move around the man constantly, or slip in and out of range to prevent their opponent from being in a punching position. My three examples all employ footwork differently and that's why i chose them, to diversify the range of the description.
I wish to get Napoles, Hopkins, and Mayweather's career sets. They are masters at doing what they do.
sure
Running is when a fighter is clearly avoiding the other fighter to stay out of trouble
Defensive footwork like you said can be a few things.
Circling the ring to keep a man off balance
sets your up offensivly
avoids shots
if you punch off when you're moving away, that's not running. like what ali did. he danced, he didn't run. While he was backing off, he was punching. "Runners", don't do that. Although it can still be considered like that. Which I think is bullshit.
Tsk tsk I agree that if you're still in range and punching that's not running. Nice example bringing up Ali.

[Popkins]

I would say running has no fightplan and gives you no chance to win, while true defensive footwork is part of a strategy and sets you up offensively.

I disagree. To me, running doesn't mean literally speeding round the ring in fear trying to avoid any contact and thus putting yourself in an unwinnable position. That would be bizarre, futile, and ultimately worthy of disqualification - and so is extremely, extremely rare in boxing. Maybe Camacho was guilty of it in certain fights, Miguel Cotto was too in the Pacquiao fight, but only after the second knockdown, it was not his pre-fight plan to do so.

I think there is a clear distinction between 'running' and 'defensive footwork' which can be elucidated by discussing the fighter's intentions.

When a fighter is 'running', I take that to mean that his gameplan is NOT based around engaging his opponent and actively asserting his superiority, his gameplan is NOT based around imposing himself on the other man. When a fighter is 'running', his gameplan is a calculated strategy to use constant movement around the ring to minimize the amount of time spent engaging the opponent, a tactic of running the clock down and "nicking" rounds by flicking 'point-scoring' punches to impress the judges and get to the final bell.

Now please realize, that I am not saying a fighter has to be Arturo Gatti to avoid being tagged as a 'runner'. Far from it. My description of 'running' is not my description of anyone who fights on the backfoot or any clever boxer who prefers to outsmart his opponent than go to war. No, no, no. There are many, many examples of smart out-boxers and counterpunchers who most certainly do NOT fit my description of 'running' (reminder - "a calculated strategy to use constant movement around the ring to minimize the amount of time spent engaging the opponent, a tactic of running the clock down and "nicking" rounds by flicking 'point-scoring' punches to impress the judges and get to the final bell.")

For instance, Pernell Whitaker often fought on the backfoot, and he never threw defence out of the window and started taking-one-to-give-one a la Gatti. However, Whitaker did engage his opponent, did try to assert his superiority, to impose his own game on the fight. A good example would be his first fight with Buddy McGirt, where he was the smaller man and after a tough first-half of the fight, gritted his teeth and used his own combination punching ability and elusive defence to take control of the fight and win. Pea could probably have just got on his bike and backpedalled at speed, and flicked out enough jabs to run the clock down, maybe threw in a quick, light flurry or two to catch the judges' eyes before each round ended, and took a dull decision. But he didn't, he engaged, used his own skills, and won decisively in a great technical slugfest.



Another important divergence of opinion between myself and the dude I have quoted above is that I believe someone who 'runs' can win a fight, and can often deserve to win a fight. By my definition of running, Ray Leonard ran against Marvin Hagler and Floyd Mayweather ran in the 2nd Castillo fight. I think both of these fights do indeed fit my own description of running. However, I scored Floyd-JLC II to Floyd by 4 points. I don't really have a strong conviction on who won Hagler-SRL, I'd probably edge with Hagler but the fight was so close that I wouldn't argue with anyone who scored it for Ray. If you run and the other guy can't prevent you from doing so or pin you down at all, then you will win rounds. They may not be exciting rounds, but the judges will have to score it accordingly. Running is not a tactic I particularly admire or respect, but I consider myself a bit of a purist/idealist. In the grim reality of boxing, Ray Leonard wanted to win that fight badly, and so did so in the only way he thought he could. In the cold light of day, Floyd Mayweather knew he had been very, very fortunate to escape with a unanimous decision he did not deserve in the first fight with Jose Luis Castillo, so he used his great advantages in speed to make sure the second fight was not as close.

[lefthook31]

Running suggests avoiding contact or trying to survive. A guy like Camacho, was a boxer mover, not a runner.

Junior Witter was a runner against Zab Judah, no offense just survivng.

Larry Donald normally a boxer mover ran against Riddick Bowe to survive


Cotto ran when he was hurt and trying to clear his head or survive. Its not in his style to run at any other point, yet we saw him run against Margo and Pac when he was clearly hurt before or couldnt keep his opponent off of him.

I dont think any fighter goes into a fight thinking they are going to run and win a decision. They run because they feel they cant win or are getting themselves hurt by engaging and dont want to get stopped.