If Holy does well...

[Langford]

Does that mean that the current heavyweight division is even worse than many make it out to be or does this elevate Holyfield's status as an ATG?

[kg0208]

Does that mean that the current heavyweight division is even worse than many make it out to be or does this elevate Holyfield's status as an ATG?

Both....it will be somewhere in between because no one will agree :)

[Smokin'Joe100]

I'd say both too. On one hand, you will think "shit, boxing must be in a bad way if a 44 yr old can win a title" But then you will think " But at least its a warrior who has done it!"

[brooklyn1550]

Both...

[sues2nd]

Both....it will be somewhere in between because no one will agree :)

:good

Tho I cant see how, if Evander wins, anyone could knock him for accomplishing it at that advanced an age. But on this forum....ya never know!

:lol:

[Punisher33]

Both, Holyfield is a great oppenent but I would have to say hes maybe 50-60% of what he used to be. When he was in his prime he was unable to beat Bowe in there first fight, but if he beats Iggy 15 years past his absolute prime I guess that doesnt speak to well of the heavywieght division. If Holyfield wins I rank him at 5 all-time.

[RUSKULL]

Does that mean that the current heavyweight division is even worse than many make it out to be or does this elevate Holyfield's status as an ATG?

Holyfield really doesn't need this fight to gaurantee his ATG status, he made it a long time ago.

I would see it as a great victory though, Sultan is no pushover and he's coming off a convincing win.

[Lostmykeys]

I personally don't think much of Ibragimov, so not much changes for me if Holyfield wins.

[MrStayman]

I think there will be an equal number of threads claiming that Ibrigamov is a fraud and that Holyfield is God.

[Vincent Gottschalk]

This is truly going to be a brutal battle but in the end Sultan will to young fast and strong for the old man:bbb .........I hope I am wrong though sence a Holyfield win would be good for boxing:thumbsup

[sues2nd]

This is truly going to be a brutal battle but in the end Sultan will to young fast and strong for the old man:bbb .........I hope I am wrong though sence a Holyfield win would be good for boxing:thumbsup

Very good for boxing. Could really bring ALOT of fans to the sport....kind of like the way Foreman did during his comeback. Hell, Evander even got his own grill as well....

:lol:

[Punisher33]

Very good for boxing. Could really bring ALOT of fans to the sport....kind of like the way Foreman did during his comeback. Hell, Evander even got his own grill as well....

:lol: You couldnt be more right, its a good and bad if Holyfield wins this saturday. Its bad because it just shows how weak the division really is, its good like you said because more fans can identify with the Holyfield. Heavywieght boxing is hurting for a name champ, I really hope Holyfield could pull it off.

[sues2nd]

You couldnt be more right, its a good and bad if Holyfield wins this saturday. Its bad because it just shows how weak the division really is, its good like you said because more fans can identify with the Holyfield. Heavywieght boxing is hurting for a name champ, I really hope Holyfield could pull it off.

And if he does win and goes for unification with Wlad (which you KNOW he will....he is THAT type of fighter)...it will allow the casual fans to see just how unbelievably talented Wlad really is. Making more fans.

The only problem I see with this is, Holyfield CANT win that fight. And vs Wlad, he could be SERIOUSLY hurt. A prime Evander, you give him a fair chance (maybe even favor him)....but at this age....it could be like the beginning of Rocky 4.....and it legitly terrifies me.

If Wlad turns to Holyfield's corner after a brutal knockout and says "If he dies, he dies"....well I just dont think I could take it.

(and I am only half joking.....)

[Punisher33]

And if he does win and goes for unification with Wlad (which you KNOW he will....he is THAT type of fighter)...it will allow the casual fans to see just how unbelievably talented Wlad really is. Making more fans.

The only problem I see with this is, Holyfield CANT win that fight. And vs Wlad, he could be SERIOUSLY hurt. A prime Evander, you give him a fair chance (maybe even favor him)....but at this age....it could be like the beginning of Rocky 4.....and it legitly terrifies me.

If Wlad turns to Holyfield's corner after a brutal knockout and says "If he dies, he dies"....well I just dont think I could take it.

(and I am only half joking.....) Yeah that fight has mega PPV written all over it, but can you really give credit to Wlad if he beats 44 yearold Evander Holyfield, I wont. And what if the unthinkable happens and Holyfield knocks Wlad out, where does that put Holyfield and where does that leave Wlad? I will tell you one thing, if Holyfield some how pulls of that type of miracle, call me crazy but I would put him at 1 or 2 ATG status.

[Daruf]

I would hate to see Evander fight Wlad ... i dont want to see a ATG like Holy permanently damaged like he would vs Wlad :(

[brooklyn1550]

If Holyfield beat Ibragimov and then went on to unify 2 belts and then go on to knock out Wladimir Klitschko, I would put him among the top 3 heavyweights ever.

I know, however, that this is a very unrealistic scenario.

[sues2nd]

Yeah that fight has mega PPV written all over it, but can you really give credit to Wlad if he beats 44 yearold Evander Holyfield, I wont. And what if the unthinkable happens and Holyfield knocks Wlad out, where does that put Holyfield and where does that leave Wlad? I will tell you one thing, if Holyfield some how pulls of that type of miracle, call me crazy but I would put him at 1 or 2 ATG status.

I would still give credit to Wlad. If Holyfield beats Sultan, it will legitimatize (is that even a word??? :? ) him as a top HW. What will be more important in rating Wlad's win in this case would be him ACTUALLY unifying titles...something that has not happened in a LOOOONG time in the HW division (one of the biggest plagues on the division itself if you ask me).

Now as for your second question....my god, if Holyfield shocks the world and does that (which isnt TOTALLY out of the question...but very, very, very, very, very unlikely), I cant even fathom how high he would reach. I personally have him 6-8 all time at HW (and higher all time p4p...people forget he is arguably the best CW of all time before he moved up in weight)....with that win, I would even be able to speculate. Top 3 or 4 without question...but I still dont know about #1.

Still the Rocky 4 possability looms and its scary.

[Punisher33]

I would still give credit to Wlad. If Holyfield beats Sultan, it will legitimatize (is that even a word??? :? ) him as a top HW. What will be more important in rating Wlad's win in this case would be him ACTUALLY unifying titles...something that has not happened in a LOOOONG time in the HW division (one of the biggest plagues on the division itself if you ask me).

Now as for your second question....my god, if Holyfield shocks the world and does that (which isnt TOTALLY out of the question...but very, very, very, very, very unlikely), I cant even fathom how high he would reach. I personally have him 6-8 all time at HW (and higher all time p4p...people forget he is arguably the best CW of all time before he moved up in weight)....with that win, I would even be able to speculate. Top 3 or 4 without question...but I still dont know about #1.

Still the Rocky 4 possability looms and its scary. If Holyfield beat Wlad I might actually shed a tear for Holyfield, it would probably be the most shocking sports moment I ever would witness live in my life.

[Spit Bucket]

if holyfield wins and gets a title....

would hopkins come up and challlenge him for a heavyweight tittle...SH!T i dont even know what to think :yikes

it will be dubbed as the "BATTLE of the AGED i mean AGES" :lol:

[ThePlugInBabies]

if holyfield wins does that mean the WBO will all of a sudden become important and legit to americans?

[Rollo]

if holyfield wins does that mean the WBO will all of a sudden become important and legit to americans?


:lol:

[sues2nd]

if holyfield wins does that mean the WBO will all of a sudden become important and legit to americans?

:patsch

Fuckin idiot. Its not the fact of the legitimacy of the title, its the fact that he beat a legitimate HW fighter to get it. Do you really think it would be that impressive if say he beat some bum who got handed a vacant title or whatever the case may be?

I swear, they speak about American bias...but the Anti-American sentiment on here is just fuckin ridiculous.

[ThePlugInBabies]

:patsch

Fuckin idiot. Its not the fact of the legitimacy of the title, its the fact that he beat a legitimate HW fighter to get it. Do you really think it would be that impressive if say he beat some bum who got handed a vacant title or whatever the case may be?

I swear, they speak about American bias...but the Anti-American sentiment on here is just fuckin ridiculous.

:roll: it was a bloody joke, not a 'FUCK YOU AMERICA!!!' rant.

[sues2nd]

:roll: it was a bloody joke, not a 'FUCK YOU AMERICA!!!' rant.

Then I apologize, but seriously, its become a bloody epidemic on here of hating everything American.

I am fully aware and acknowledge the American media bias. It makes me sick when great foriegn (to the US) fighters dont get their due credit....but the flip side of that coin.....the "reprocussions" so to say that has been aimed at everything US....its just getting old. And it pisses me off.

So again, took it too literally...jumped the gun so to say....so I apologize!

:good

[Ivo]

Holyfield should stay away from Wladimir. It is no longer his time. His time were 90s. This centure is not good for him.

It is hard for me to imagine that Holyfield can beat Ibragimov. It is not like Ibragimov is so great I just think that Holyfield is not what he used to be.

[ThePlugInBabies]

Then I apologize, but seriously, its become a bloody epidemic on here of hating everything American.

I am fully aware and acknowledge the American media bias. It makes me sick when great foriegn (to the US) fighters dont get their due credit....but the flip side of that coin.....the "reprocussions" so to say that has been aimed at everything US....its just getting old. And it pisses me off.

So again, took it too literally...jumped the gun so to say....so I apologize!

:good

no problem, probably could have done with a smilie to get my point across. :D

agreed though, there is far too much nationalistic bullshit on this forum at times.

[Jazzo]

It can be made to serve anyone.

For me, it will elevate Lewis' status.

[sues2nd]

no problem, probably could have done with a smilie to get my point across. :D

agreed though, there is far too much nationalistic bullshit on this forum at times.


:good

[gutto]

time for a well over due retirement for holy win loose or draw but atg imo regardless of result as for the heavy weight division could it get any worse ? so both would be the answer to the question:good

[Dorfmeister]

It can be made to serve anyone.

For me, it will elevate Lewis' status.

Lewis status is of an HBO commentator, stick to the thread content and leave any of the wanna-be GOATS out of this, please? Thnx

[Jazzo]

Lewis status is of an HBO commentator, stick to the thread content and leave any of the wanna-be GOATS out of this, please? Thnx

It serves the thread perfectly.

Fighters are judged in relation to each other.

[Dorfmeister]

It serves the thread perfectly.

Fighters are judged in relation to each other.

So this is what you Lewis fan(atic)s have come to? You are judging Lewis greatness through 45 year old Holyfield's attempt at Sultan Ibragimov's world title in Moskow... It would have been easier to go directly to those threads with Lewis ( or Wlad) virtually fighting all ATGs. But I never judged you, Lewis or anyone else just asked you to keep Lennox ( or Wladdy) out of this but since you r willing to get everyone in there, please be my guest... I promise you that I won't reply fo' sure.

[Jazzo]

So this is what you Lewis fan(atic)s have come to? You are judging Lewis greatness through 45 year old Holyfield's attempt at Sultan Ibragimov's world title in Moskow... It would have been easier to go directly to those threads with Lewis ( or Wlad) virtually fighting all ATGs. But I never judged you, Lewis or anyone else just asked you to keep Lennox ( or Wladdy) out of this but since you r willing to get everyone in there, please be my guest... I promise you that I won't reply fo' sure.

I am not certain if you are promising to reply or promising not to reply.

Anyhow, as preposterous as my initial post was, and was meant to be, it shows that you can never really measure how "shot" a fighter is.

Would it make Holyfield Greater? Difficult question.

Do you count the Title win and ignore his losses? Or do you count both?

People can interpret these things in any way they see fit, and my very point was that bias will always enter the equation.

[Dorfmeister]

I am not certain if you are promising to reply or promising not to reply.

Anyhow, as preposterous as my initial post was, and was meant to be, it shows that you can never really measure how "shot" a fighter is.

Would it make Holyfield Greater? Difficult question.

Do you count the Title win and ignore his losses? Or do you count both?

People can interpret these things in any way they see fit, and my very point was that bias will always enter the equation.

Since you recognize that your post was meant to be proposterous, you have to be sure I was not about to reply again... But Godamn, you ask me serious questions now and I can't help myself again...

No, a win over Sultan would not make Holyfield greater and surely wouldn't make Lewis any better... They, Lewis and Holyfield, fought in equal terms, one got the best and retired, the other has his ambitions that have nothing to do with the past or past opponents.

I don't count the Title win, neither I ignore his losses, just like to see him win and this ain't different from any other Holyfield fight for me, I wish him to win regardless.

Finally, you've put it best, bias will always enter the question but biased toward whom? Holyfield? Holyfield's opponents no matter who they come to be? Biased towards Tyson cause Holy and Mike had a dispute in 96, 97? Biased towards Lewis cause he beat Holyfield or is that draw that is affecting his (Lewis') legacy still? Nothing of what may come through these Q&As makes sense... R U interested in Holy vs Iggy in 2007? If not, what else do we have to talk about? All the best...