Smokin' Joe Frazier appreciation thread...

[Blacc Jesus]

We got all these other appreciation threads, so I decided to make one for my favorite boxer ol' Smoke. Sad that Joe is still criminally underrated, IMO.

So get to appreciating, dammit.

[Maxmomer]

The man's an inspiration.

[The Whaler]

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Joe. Poised and ready to attack.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

He's a bad man.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Still wouldn't mess with him now.

[DavidPayne]

Joe Frazier, like his those fighters with whom he shares stylistic kinship; Marciano and Dempsey, has become reborn in my own retrospective of bygone heavyweights.

For a long time, I discounted these smaller, shorter, walk forward fighters as too small to offer sufficient resistance to accomplished big men like Lewis. I was overlooking their indominatable spirit, underestimating their abilities and over-stating the usefulness of modern day bulk.

Joe Frazier's body of work is perilously shallow, his defining performances are obviously the Ali trilogy and the Foreman demolition. His low number of bouts, compared to contemporaries, is testimony to his willingness to take shots to land one.

He's a classic example of the short career that is an inevitable result of his style, but he fought in the most talent laden era and was a fabulous, fabulous fighter.

I love Joe Frazier.

[Blacc Jesus]

The man's an inspiration.
Damn right.

And am I that only one that feels his jab is underrated? He tore Quarry's face to shreds with it in the first fight.

[Blacc Jesus]

I don't think he's criminally underrated. I feel if he's in your top 12, you're not really hating on him. I just don't like that he gets shortchanged in regards to Ali. Like how so many people believe 60's Ali "dances rings around him."
I can agree with that. Some dumbass had the audacity to tell me that a prime Ali KO's a Prime Frazier in 4. :patsch
I also hate when people say that Tyson is the ultimate version of Frazier. :huh
Too bad he was missing one thing that Frazier had: Heart.

[DavidPayne]

Heart is an understimated quality, and just plain old fashioned toughness.

Would a Rahman really have kept off Dempsey despite a fathom of reach advantage and 80 pounds of weight.

Not for more than 5 rounds.

[NickHudson]

I agree that qualities like raw toughness are undervalued on this forum.

Frazier had toughness and will-to-win in spades, and in elite sport this can overwhelm just about anything else, whether being outmatched physically, having less skill and so on.

To illustrate my point, you seen gritty no nonsense 'grinders' win in sports like Tennis (e.g. Lleyton Hewitt) which is a non-contact sport!

Toughness is something which I think has diminished in recent boxing history. Probably because the money is greater which means boxers get soft and lose their drive earlier on in their careers.

An exception among recent HWs: Evander Holyfield...

[dmt]

An amazing fighter, definately top 10 heavyweight of all time

[DavidPayne]

NickHudson,

All true. I think in America, and I say this from a detached perspective here in the UK, social and economic affluence has increased and the toughness of every day life, prevalent in the first half of the last century - the time that shaped the character of most of the notable American heavyweights of the 20th century - is no longer at work.

I think this is why boxing is increasingly becoming a global sport as new talent pools of Africa, South America and Eastern Europe are mined to find the tough, hardened, hungry fighters no longer coming through the US system.

Some of this toughness came from activity to, frequency of combat is something removed from modern day boxing and while, crucially, it has prolonged the career and health of many fighters, it has removed the seasoning, stubbornness and willingness to engage from contemporary fighters so readily available in their fistic forefathers.

On the flip side, nutrition and knowledge has helped advance the physical capabilities of fighters, though this is, it would seem, now making way for illegal physical enhancement.

Boxing is essentially the same sport, but I don't think it's populated by the same types of personalities it once was.

A Joe Frazier type on the modern heavyweight landscape would be a phenomenon.

[rydersonthestorm]

I have fraizer in my top ten heavweights of all time, i just think h2h with alot of the other all time hevayweight he comes up short.

[Smokin'Joe100]

I think it's obvious Frazier is my favourite fighter. All hail King Joe!

[Keihule]

Smokin' Joe is my favorite heavyweight ever. Such a great brawling style.

I watch Ali vs. Frazier I just about every day. That left hook in the fifteenth would have flattened anybody.

[NickHudson]

Agree with everything you say here.

NickHudson,

All true. I think in America, and I say this from a detached perspective here in the UK, social and economic affluence has increased and the toughness of every day life, prevalent in the first half of the last century - the time that shaped the character of most of the notable American heavyweights of the 20th century - is no longer at work.

I think this is why boxing is increasingly becoming a global sport as new talent pools of Africa, South America and Eastern Europe are mined to find the tough, hardened, hungry fighters no longer coming through the US system.

Some of this toughness came from activity to, frequency of combat is something removed from modern day boxing and while, crucially, it has prolonged the career and health of many fighters, it has removed the seasoning, stubbornness and willingness to engage from contemporary fighters so readily available in their fistic forefathers.

On the flip side, nutrition and knowledge has helped advance the physical capabilities of fighters, though this is, it would seem, now making way for illegal physical enhancement.

Boxing is essentially the same sport, but I don't think it's populated by the same types of personalities it once was.

A Joe Frazier type on the modern heavyweight landscape would be a phenomenon.

[mr. magoo]

Joe Frazier was the classic example of a working class, blue collar figure who emerged from humble surroundings. He was a very talented left hooker who grew up in Philladelphia and at one point worked in a butcher shop. Sound familiar? I think Stallone took a page out of Joe's life when writing one of the greatest films of all time.

Frazier was an inspiration to all people. He was a hero to the working class, the black community, the white population and essentially people of all different walks of life. He represented America fantastically in the 1964 olympics, and conducted himself as a true gentleman as a champion. Frazier represents to me the true spirit of what boxing is all about. Putting your best foot forward and taking on the challenges of not only boxing but life itself. Following a devastating loss to George Foreman, Joe developed signifant health issues including, high blood pressure, diabetes and even partial blindness. He did not let these problems become handicaps nor reasons to quit. He followed up by winning good fights against Quarry, Bugner and Ellis, then gave us one of the most memorable matches in history in Manilla. He even had the guts to step in the ring with Foreman a second time, something that neither Ali nor Norton would even consider doing. Joe also inspired and raised some fighters as well including Marvis, Tyrone and Rodney Frazier. None of whom ever came close to acheiving Joe's legacy, but were decent fighters nonetheless.

[JimboDs]

south paw?

[prime]

More than Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Muhammad Ali, Lennox Lewis, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, it is Joe Frazier, smoking in the ring, I would introduce to a newbie as the epitome of the true spirit of a boxing champion.

His victories over Chuvalo, Quarry and Ellis were sterling, but any man who could beat Ali the way Frazier did at FOTC, before a partisan crowd, when the stage seemed set for the coronation of a cocky, hungry, very savvy and capable man many consider the greatest of all time, is a satisfaction no one nor anything will ever be able to take away from this great among greats.

He did it without fanfare, gimmicks, nor the best physical equipment. But he was there. And he knew how to pay the price for victory.

Joe Frazier is a man.

[Blacc Jesus]

More than Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Muhammad Ali, Lennox Lewis, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, it is Joe Frazier, smoking in the ring, I would introduce to a newbie as the epitome of the true spirit of a boxing champion.

His victories over Chuvalo, Quarry and Ellis were sterling, but any man who could beat Ali the way Frazier did at FOTC, before a partisan crowd, when the stage seemed set for the coronation of a cocky, hungry, very savvy and capable man many consider the greatest of all time, is a satisfaction no one nor anything will ever be able to take away from this great among greats.

He did it without fanfare, gimmicks, nor the best physical equipment. But he was there. And he knew how to pay the price for victory.

Joe Frazier is a man.
:clap::clap:

[Blacc Jesus]

:deal

[Rocket]

he never fought and beat a big puncher though

[Blacc Jesus]

he never fought and beat a big puncher though
Thanks for the insight.:thumbsup

[amhlilhaus]

being ranked no 3 in the best twenty year period for heavyweights (60-70's) is no small feat, frazier is one of my favorites.

[The Whaler]

Joe Frazier is a man.

That sums it up quite nicely.

[Marciano Frazier]

An incredible warrior, a great champion and a kind man.

[TIGEREDGE]

in the top 6 goat heavyweights for me

[AnthonyJ74]

Joe Frazier, like his those fighters with whom he shares stylistic kinship; Marciano and Dempsey, has become reborn in my own retrospective of bygone heavyweights.

For a long time, I discounted these smaller, shorter, walk forward fighters as too small to offer sufficient resistance to accomplished big men like Lewis. I was overlooking their indominatable spirit, underestimating their abilities and over-stating the usefulness of modern day bulk.

Joe Frazier's body of work is perilously shallow, his defining performances are obviously the Ali trilogy and the Foreman demolition. His low number of bouts, compared to contemporaries, is testimony to his willingness to take shots to land one.

He's a classic example of the short career that is an inevitable result of his style, but he fought in the most talent laden era and was a fabulous, fabulous fighter.

I love Joe Frazier.

I think I would have to disagree with you abou the depth of Frazier's body of work. Discounting the Ali and Foreman fights, Joe fought and beat a lot of quality fighters: Quarry, Ellis, Bonavena, Manuel Ramos, e.t.c. If you compare Frazier's resume with many other highly-rated fighters - Foreman, Holmes, Liston, e.t.c - you'd see that Frazier was not outclassed. He may have lacked the long reign of a Holmes' or the remarkable late-career of a Foreman, but judging stricly on quality of opposition, Frazier had a good, solid career!

[AnthonyJ74]

he never fought and beat a big puncher though

Jerry Quarry and Manuel Ramos could bang!

[Sonny's jab]

I'd rank Joe Frazier in the top 6 heavyweights of all time.

I think he's greatly under-appreciated. So much is made of his defeats and not enough is made of his victories.

Frazier is one of the greatest ever.
On reflection - and I haven't always thought so - I'd place him above Dempsey and Marciano (two of my absolute favourites) on an all-time list.

[DavidPayne]

I think I would have to disagree with you abou the depth of Frazier's body of work. Discounting the Ali and Foreman fights, Joe fought and beat a lot of quality fighters: Quarry, Ellis, Bonavena, Manuel Ramos, e.t.c. If you compare Frazier's resume with many other highly-rated fighters - Foreman, Holmes, Liston, e.t.c - you'd see that Frazier was not outclassed. He may have lacked the long reign of a Holmes' or the remarkable late-career of a Foreman, but judging stricly on quality of opposition, Frazier had a good, solid career!

Perhaps, "perillously shallow", is on reflection lsightly unjust. Chuvalo, Bonavena and Ellis are more then capable heavyweights. Ellis is a notably talented fighter, but in battles of attrition Frazier would be virtually unbeatable.

However, considering the era's he transcended; the end of the Liston, Patterson decade and the Norton, Lyle, Shavers, Holmes of the mid late 70's I cant help thinking perhaps one or two more headline contenders were missed from his body of work.

But that would too, be unfair. As I maintained throughout my posts on this thread, Joe Frazier is a rediscovered gem for me. And in these mundane times of medicority, he represents all that was once great about heavyweight boxing.

What I wouldn't give to see a new Frazier emerge? Povetkin is no Frazier but he has a nice left hook and is game. Of the others, only the flawed Lamon Brewster ever demonstrated Frazier type heart in recent years.

[Holmes' Jab]

I'd rank Joe Frazier in the top 6 heavyweights of all time.

I think he's greatly under-appreciated. So much is made of his defeats and not enough is made of his victories.

Frazier is one of the greatest ever.
I'd place him above Dempsey and Marciano on an all-time list.


Same here, mate. Well said! :good

[mcvey]

We got all these other appreciation threads, so I decided to make one for my favorite boxer ol' Smoke. Sad that Joe is still criminally underrated, IMO.

So get to appreciating, dammit.
I stood next to Frazier at Wmbley stadium once ,this was about20 years ago ,he isnt tall but very very solid looking and rather forbidding ,till he smiles,very tough hombre!

[yancey]

Joe Frazier was the classic example of a working class, blue collar figure who emerged from humble surroundings. He was a very talented left hooker who grew up in Philladelphia and at one point worked in a butcher shop. Sound familiar? I think Stallone took a page out of Joe's life when writing one of the greatest films of all time.

Frazier was an inspiration to all people. He was a hero to the working class, the black community, the white population and essentially people of all different walks of life. He represented America fantastically in the 1964 olympics, and conducted himself as a true gentleman as a champion. Frazier represents to me the true spirit of what boxing is all about. Putting your best foot forward and taking on the challenges of not only boxing but life itself. Following a devastating loss to George Foreman, Joe developed signifant health issues including, high blood pressure, diabetes and even partial blindness. He did not let these problems become handicaps nor reasons to quit. He followed up by winning good fights against Quarry, Bugner and Ellis, then gave us one of the most memorable matches in history in Manilla. He even had the guts to step in the ring with Foreman a second time, something that neither Ali nor Norton would even consider doing. Joe also inspired and raised some fighters as well including Marvis, Tyrone and Rodney Frazier. None of whom ever came close to acheiving Joe's legacy, but were decent fighters nonetheless.

Smokin' Joe is my favorite boxer of all time.

Interest in him has rekindled my interest in boxing. There ought to be a statue of him in Philly.

I'm biased, but I think he is inside the top 5 at his peak, ahead of greats like Holmes and Marciano.