Who beats a prime Roy Jones Jr ?

[Unforgiven]

You would you pick to beat RJJ, or give more than a 50-50 chance ?

At middleweight ?
At 168 ?
At light-heavyweight ?

Or anyone under 175, (there might be some smaller fighters?), at catch-weights or at any given weight, barring heavies and cruisers.

[Boxed Ears]

Pongsaklek Wonjongkam at flyweight

[bodhi]

You would you pick to beat RJJ, or give more than a 50-50 chance ?

At middleweight ?
At 168 ?
At light-heavyweight ?

Or anyone under 175, (there might be some smaller fighters?), at catch-weights or at any given weight, barring heavies and cruisers.

mw:
favs: Robinson, Monzon, Hagler, Fitzsimmons (depending on ruleset), Burley;
50/50: Tiger, Steele, Zale, Valdes, Walker;
others: Dempsey, Ryan and Greb I think would at least be 50/50 too but there´s too much speculation involved to seriously discuss this.

smw:
fav: Fitzsimmons, Choynski, Langford (if you count them as smws and depending on ruleset);
50/50: Calzaghe.

lhw:
favs: Charles, Moore, Foster, Spinks, Tunney, Fitzsimmons (depending on ruleset), Langford (depending on ruleset);
50/50: Loughran, H. Johnson, Conn, Bivins;
others: Greb would be at least 50/50 too but there´s too much speculation involved to seriously discuss this;
And as a wildcard I´d like to throw out Berlenbach, who has a seriosu chance KOing Jones.

[DudeGuyMan]

Calzaghe 50/50? Get out.

[bodhi]

Calzaghe 50/50? Get out.

Nice argument, mate, but you should refine your debating skills a bit :good

[Pachilles]

I'd like to say Hagler at MW but the most likely scenario i see is Jones on the run outpointing him.

At LHW Holyfield, Spinks. Technically Patterson could be considered a LHW and i think he'd have Jones' number

[Stevie G]

Calzaghe 50/50? Get out.
As much as I like Joe Calzaghe,he would n't have stood a chance against a prime Jones.

[anarci]

mw:
favs: Robinson, Monzon, Hagler, Fitzsimmons (depending on ruleset), Burley;
50/50: Tiger, Steele, Zale, Valdes, Walker;
others: Dempsey, Ryan and Greb I think would at least be 50/50 too but there´s too much speculation involved to seriously discuss this.

smw:
fav: Fitzsimmons, Choynski, Langford (if you count them as smws and depending on ruleset);
50/50: Calzaghe.

lhw:
favs: Charles, Moore, Foster, Spinks, Tunney, Fitzsimmons (depending on ruleset), Langford (depending on ruleset);
50/50: Loughran, H. Johnson, Conn, Bivins;
others: Greb would be at least 50/50 too but there´s too much speculation involved to seriously discuss this;
And as a wildcard I´d like to throw out Berlenbach, who has a seriosu chance KOing Jones.

This is hTH not Resumes:patsch









AT LH Spinks,Foster,Charles
At SM NO one
AT MW:think I think Hearns would have a good shot he could pose some problems for Jones if he fought the right fight. HTH i cant think of anyone not even Hagler. He would have to much atheleticsm for Monzon. Dont think RObinson could get him either. Hearns has the best shot stylistically but even then i have to favor Roy.

[bodhi]

This is hTH not Resumes:patsch


I know. Those are my picks. I don´t think as high of Jones as some of you guys do. He would come up short against many atgs at his weights imo.

[anarci]

I'd like to say Hagler at MW but the most likely scenario i see is Jones on the run outpointing him.

At LHW Holyfield, Spinks. Technically Patterson could be considered a LHW and i think he'd have Jones' number

Last time Holyfield fought at LH was in the olympics. Patterson was a LH when he was an upcoming prospect.

[Popkins]

You would you pick to beat RJJ, or give more than a 50-50 chance ?

At middleweight ?
At 168 ?
At light-heavyweight ?

Or anyone under 175, (there might be some smaller fighters?), at catch-weights or at any given weight, barring heavies and cruisers.

Yawn.

[anarci]

I know. Those are my picks. I don´t think as high of Jones as some of you guys do. He would come up short against many atgs at his weights imo.

Im not the biggest fan of ROy but there is no denying his talent.

Your in Denial about RJ.

[Pachilles]

Last time Holyfield fought at LH was in the olympics. Patterson was a LH when he was an upcoming prospect.

and what?

[PowerPuncher]

Mw - no one although I'd give the best shot to a fast straight powerpuncher like McClellan

SMW - maybe Charles, no one else

LHW - maybe Charles, maybe Patterson, no one else

[anarci]

and what? WTF you mean and what ! Read your post do i have to spell out what you posted.

Why do you include Holy when he never even fought there as a pro
Why do you include Patterson when he fought in the cruiserweight range (Heavyweight then)...........Thats what!!

[Unforgiven]

Yawn.

:huh

[anarci]

Mw - no one although I'd give the best shot to a fast straight powerpuncher like McClellan

SMW - maybe Charles, no one else

LHW - maybe Charles, maybe Patterson, no one else

Forgot Mccellan he was basically on Par with Jones in their fights in the Amatuers. He would have a shot.

No SPinks or Foster? Id bet the ranch on them they match up very well with Jones.

[Pachilles]

WTF you mean and what ! Read your post do i have to spell out what you posted.

Why do you include Holy when he never even fought there as a pro
Why do you include Patterson when he fought in the cruiserweight range (Heavyweight then)...........Thats what!!

Calm down beaner. Floyd Patterson often weighed inside the LHW limit for his fights, he often weighed below the LHW limit also. Holyfield is the best talent to ever fight at this weight and one of the only guys i'd pick against Jones. Floyd Patterson had the extreme speed and power to be very dangerous against the elusive Jones and keep up with him

[bodhi]

Im not the biggest fan of ROy but there is no denying his talent.

Your in Denial about RJ.

Yeah, of course ... nice argument. Everytime somebody disagrees with you he "is in denial".

Talent means nothing when you don´t prove it. Jones didn´t prove it enough to hang in with the best IMO. You don´t need to agree with me though.

[PowerPuncher]

Forgot Mccellan he was basically on Par with Jones in their fights in the Amatuers. He would have a shot.

No SPinks or Foster? Id bet the ranch on them they match up very well with Jones.

I don't rate Spinks/Foster as highly most on here. Foster gives up his height and likes to look for the left hook, Jones is the much better left hooker, so that takes away Fosters best weapon. Fosters footwork and defense will make it pretty easy for Jones to hit him at will while outmanouvering him. Foster looks great on KO highlight reels

Spinks is tougher because of quality footwrk/movement and ring craft. Im not a fan of his herky jerky style or his punch technique. I really think Jones massive advantages in speed of hand and foot would see him win a comfortable devision against Spinks

I'm pretty much known as an RJJ nuthugger on here, but I genuinely believe his ability is the best ever over these weight classes

I think the best way to get to Jones is with a well timed consistant jab, good use of range (ie being taller would help), and fast compact punches. Thats why I thought GMAN could pose problems, but then again GMANs defense is pretty poor and Jones would hit him at will if he couldnt impose his will. Nunn would be a tough style for Jones but I dont see Nunn actually winning. Tunney would also pose poblems

[Flea Man]

Pongsaklek Wonjongkam at flyweight

Eh, don't bracket Wonjongkam as a Kameda-esque cult.

He's not bad:deal

[Flea Man]

Mw - no one although I'd give the best shot to a fast straight powerpuncher like McClellan

SMW - maybe Charles, no one else

LHW - maybe Charles, maybe Patterson, no one else

Bob Foster would DECIMATE Jones. How far out of range would Jones have to be to avoid Fosters jab? He wouldn't get much going himself, and if he tried Foster would time him and take his head off.

Foster would jab long, THEN step in and let the bombs go. He could throw wild looping hooks from afar that would allow him to get in closer, I see no way that Roy can avoid a fighter like Foster for the whole fight.

[Boxed Ears]

Eh, don't bracket Wonjongkam as a Kameda-esque cult.

He's not bad:deal

He's not bad at all...and he deserves it more than Kameda. Come on Flea...let this man have his dues!

[PowerPuncher]

Bob Foster would DECIMATE Jones. How far out of range would Jones have to be to avoid Fosters jab? He wouldn't get much going himself, and if he tried Foster would time him and take his head off.

Foster would jab long, THEN step in and let the bombs go. He could throw wild looping hooks from afar that would allow him to get in closer, I see no way that Roy can avoid a fighter like Foster for the whole fight.

Jones use of range is great, how many managed to land jabs on him cleanly and regularly? Griffin had some success but was ultimately losing, and we saw what happened in the rematch. Fosters use of range and timing is nowhere near as good as Jones, so no chance of him timing anything. As for jabbing long - Foster wasnt particularly adept at this, he gave up his height when he jabbed making him very hittable. Jones can throw a hook faster than Foster can throw a jab FFS

Why dont you just pick Maxim over him too :lol:

[OBCboxer]

mw:
favs: Robinson, Monzon, Hagler, Fitzsimmons (depending on ruleset), Burley;
50/50: Tiger, Steele, Zale, Valdes, Walker;
others: Dempsey, Ryan and Greb I think would at least be 50/50 too but there´s too much speculation involved to seriously discuss this.

smw:
fav: Fitzsimmons, Choynski, Langford (if you count them as smws and depending on ruleset);
50/50: Calzaghe.

lhw:
favs: Charles, Moore, Foster, Spinks, Tunney, Fitzsimmons (depending on ruleset), Langford (depending on ruleset);
50/50: Loughran, H. Johnson, Conn, Bivins;
others: Greb would be at least 50/50 too but there´s too much speculation involved to seriously discuss this;
And as a wildcard I´d like to throw out Berlenbach, who has a seriosu chance KOing Jones.

:lol::roll::patsch

Well here it goes. Your a respected poster and present something interesting here. Let's not dodge the fact that Calzaghe is prone to being dropped. If he is in this fight like he was in the real one, Jones will jump all over him and stop him; he was one of the best finishers ever.

Calzaghe presents no stylistic advantage over Jones. Jones has the edge in just about everything. Whatever Calzaghe can do, Jones can do it 10x better except for flailing his hands 1000 times a fight.

[bodhi]

:lol::roll::patsch

Well here it goes. Your a respected poster and present something interesting here. Let's not dodge the fact that Calzaghe is prone to being dropped. If he is in this fight like he was in the real one, Jones will jump all over him and stop him; he was one of the best finishers ever.

Calzaghe presents no stylistic advantage over Jones. Jones has the edge in just about everything. Whatever Calzaghe can do, Jones can do it 10x better except for flailing his hands 1000 times a fight.

Well, Jones advantage in speed wouldn´t big in here, even so he would have one. I think Calzaghe´s boxer-swarmer style and awkwardness would pose problems for Jones. So would his workrate and adepting. Of course Jones would very well be able to beat Joe C., no doubt about that.

[Hookie]

You would you pick to beat RJJ, or give more than a 50-50 chance ?

At middleweight ?
At 168 ?
At light-heavyweight ?

Or anyone under 175, (there might be some smaller fighters?), at catch-weights or at any given weight, barring heavies and cruisers.

First of all, a prime well prepared Jones gives any fighter he faces (under HW) trouble. Who "could" beat him?

I'm not saying all of these guys would definately beat him, but these men would have decent chances-

MW-

Sugar Ray Robinson
Sugar Ray Leonard
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns
Mike McCallum

SMW-

Bob Fitzsimmons
Stanley Ketchel
Thomas Hearns
Nigel Benn

LHW-

Ezzard Charles
Michael Spinks
Archie Moore
Bob Foster
Harold Johnson
Dwight Qawi
Thomas Hearns
Michael Moorer
Michael Nunn
Dariusz Michalczewski
Henry Maske

CW... He never fought at CW but he was dominate at LHW and he won a World Title Belt at HW so he could have fought at CW.

CW-

Evander Holyfield
David Haye

HW-

Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Gene Tunney
Jersey Joe Walcott
Chris Byrd
Tomasz Adamek

[PowerPuncher]

Henry Maske



:blood

[Boxed Ears]

Jerry Halstead, anywhere from SMW to HW. Simply too good and too much for ol' Roy.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[OBCboxer]

Well, Jones advantage in speed wouldn´t big in here, even so he would have one. I think Calzaghe´s boxer-swarmer style and awkwardness would pose problems for Jones. So would his workrate and adepting. Of course Jones would very well be able to beat Joe C., no doubt about that.

Yes, the speed is a big difference, Jones couples speed with power. Calzaghe puts little power behind his punches, that's the difference. His swarmer style would lead him into trouble as his defense is below-average. His workrate would also leave him open and that's a no-no against RJJ. He won't be able to adapt very well on the floor.

[PowerPuncher]

Yes, the speed is a big difference, Jones couples speed with power. Calzaghe puts little power behind his punches, that's the difference. His swarmer style would lead him into trouble as his defense is below-average. His workrate would also leave him open and that's a no-no against RJJ. He won't be able to adapt very well on the floor.

Jones covers a laod of distance with his punches too. Still Calzaghe is far from the worst pick by Bodhi, at least he isnt a plodder with a poor defense like some of his other picks

[Hookie]

Jerry Halstead, anywhere from SMW to HW. Simply too good and too much for ol' Roy.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Hey, Wimpy wasn't so Wimpy! I'll take Jones though.

As for Maske... I think Jones wins, but Maske might give him some trouble.

[Boxed Ears]

Hey, Wimpy wasn't so Wimpy! I'll take Jones though.

As for Maske... I think Jones wins, but Maske might give him some trouble.

Wimpy...was anything but. :D

[Popkins]

:huh

This thread pops up every couple of weeks. It's been done more often than the hooker who stands outside the army barracks. :dead

[Boro chris]

Wimpy...was anything but. :D

(Adopts Alec Guiness tones)
Jerry 'Wimpy' Halstead. Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time........A long time.

At mw I definetely think Hagler. He'd be all over Jones in the second half.
SRR would start as a strong favourite as well. Not sure if Monzons quick enough however.

Cant think of anyone at sm. Calzaghe would give a rough time but still lose widely on pts.

At LH? RJJ is grossly overated at times H2H. Spinks,Charles,Harold Johnson and Qawi would all do a number on him. Someone like Conteh would be 50/50 with him. Thats a fight I'd love to see.

[MAG1965]

Thomas Hearns had a good chance to beat Roy if he jabbed and countered.

[McGrain]

Anyone think Lloyd Marshall would beat Jones at 168?

[McGrain]

Thomas Hearns had a good chance to beat Roy if he jabbed and countered.


It's whoever lands the really heavy stuff first IMO. I think calling this 50.50 at MW is fair, but Hearns could be weird with his plans, couldn't he? I think i'd probably but a quid on Jones at MW.

[bodhi]

Yes, the speed is a big difference, Jones couples speed with power. Calzaghe puts little power behind his punches, that's the difference. His swarmer style would lead him into trouble as his defense is below-average. His workrate would also leave him open and that's a no-no against RJJ. He won't be able to adapt very well on the floor.

I can see Jones totally outclassing Calzahge. I just don´t think it will happen. Like Jones Calzaghe had the potential to be something special - although to a lower degree - and these kind of fighters rarely get outclassed.

[bodhi]

Anyone think Lloyd Marshall would beat Jones at 168?

I think he has a very good chance but I wouldn´t make him the fav.

[Minotauro]

175: Charles, Spinks, Moore, Foster and Patterson.

168: Out of guys who actually competed at the weight nobody. Guys who fought before the weight was around Lloyd Marshall.

160: Monzon and SRR gotta see footage of guys like Greb and Flowers before picking them.

[Minotauro]

Anyone think Lloyd Marshall would beat Jones at 168?

I give him a good chance like 50/50.

[McGrain]

He was certainly able to land very hard punches on Burley and Williams. He looks really difficult to box and time in the footage and he hit hard.

I think Jones is a pretty difficult style for Charles but Charles has a very good chance at 168 too.

[manbearpig]

:lol::roll::patsch

Well here it goes. Your a respected poster and present something interesting here. Let's not dodge the fact that Calzaghe is prone to being dropped. If he is in this fight like he was in the real one, Jones will jump all over him and stop him; he was one of the best finishers ever.

Calzaghe presents no stylistic advantage over Jones. Jones has the edge in just about everything. Whatever Calzaghe can do, Jones can do it 10x better except for flailing his hands 1000 times a fight.
Is he now?

[Son of Gaul]

At MW-Noone, not even SRR.

At SMW-Noone, period.

At LHW- M. Spinks would test him and would win probably 2-3 out of ten matchups at 175 with RJJ. Moorer is a darkhorse in this scenario as he does have the power, style(Roy hates southpaws), skills and length to really bother him so I'd actually favor Moorer against him at 175...prime v prime.:good

Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles would be reasonable tests but they didn't have the attributes to really bother RJJ as he did everything they did...except better.

[Son of Gaul]

175: Charles, Spinks, Moore, Foster and Patterson.

168: Out of guys who actually competed at the weight nobody. Guys who fought before the weight was around Lloyd Marshall.

160: Monzon and SRR gotta see footage of guys like Greb and Flowers before picking them.

:patschMonzon would barely make contact with RJJ at 160.

[McGrain]

At 175 I think a lot of guys would beat him. Foster and Moore are my favourite picks.

[ThinBlack]

At middleweight: Monzon, Hagler, possibly Robinson.
At. super middleweight: no one.
At. light heavyweight: John Henry Lewis, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Bob Foster, and Michael Spinks.Possibly Victor Galindez and John Conteh.

[Minotauro]

At MW-Noone, not even SRR.

At SMW-Noone, period.

At LHW- M. Spinks would test him and would win probably 2-3 out of ten matchups at 175 with RJJ. Moorer is a darkhorse in this scenario as he does have the power, style(Roy hates southpaws), skills and length to really bother him so I'd actually favor Moorer against him at 175...prime v prime.:good

Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles would be reasonable tests but they didn't have the attributes to really bother RJJ as he did everything they did...except better.

Good stuff, I needed a laugh.

[Son of Gaul]

Good stuff, I needed a laugh.

Watch film objectively on this guy and you tell me who could deal with his speed, reflexes and power at 160 or 168? THROW RESUMES OUT AND REALLY BREAK DOWN A FIGHT BETWEEN RJJ AND THE GUYS YOU SAY WOULD BEAT HIM...:bart

[anarci]

I forot about a prime Michael Nunn but only at MW. Jones whips him at SM or LH as Nunn was nowhere near the same fighter he was at MW

[anarci]

Calm down beaner. Floyd Patterson often weighed inside the LHW limit for his fights, he often weighed below the LHW limit also. Holyfield is the best talent to ever fight at this weight and one of the only guys i'd pick against Jones. Floyd Patterson had the extreme speed and power to be very dangerous against the elusive Jones and keep up with him

Floyd Patterson never fought at LH in his prime. Holyfield at LH? Now your just talking bullshit, but then again you always do. Go to Boxing Records and check their weights.

He is one of the only ones who answered my newest thread so ill save the insulting comeback.

[bodhi]

Watch film objectively on this guy and you tell me who could deal with his speed, reflexes and power at 160 or 168? THROW RESUMES OUT AND REALLY BREAK DOWN A FIGHT BETWEEN RJJ AND THE GUYS YOU SAY WOULD BEAT HIM...:bart

So, you take the Jones of the Vinnie Paz fight against the Monzon who fought Briscoe the second time and you think Jones would win because he looked great against a never has been?

[Holmes' Jab]

Ezzard Charles.

[itrymariti]

So, you take the Jones of the Vinnie Paz fight against the Monzon who fought Briscoe the second time and you think Jones would win because he looked great against a never has been?

Monzon never fought as good a Middleweight as Jones. What does that prove?

[Son of Gaul]

So, you take the Jones of the Vinnie Paz fight against the Monzon who fought Briscoe the second time and you think Jones would win because he looked great against a never has been?

No, I'm looking at the matchup objectively(as we all should) and I am LOGICALLY and OBJECTIVELY saying that there is no way that anyone in the history of Boxing could deal with RJJ's relexes and power(in his prime...early to mid 90's) at 160 or 168 despite his lack of "quality" competition. The guy had Mayweather relexes, Camacho-esque hand speed and knockout punching power!!!!!!!!!! Burden of proof anyone...:think

[bodhi]

No, I'm looking at the matchup objectively(as we all should) and I am LOGICALLY and OBJECTIVELY saying that there is no way that anyone in the history of Boxing could deal with RJJ's relexes and power(in his prime...early to mid 90's) at 160 or 168 despite his lack of "quality" competition. The guy had Mayweather relexes, Camacho-esque hand speed and knockout punching power!!!!!!!!!! Burden of proof anyone...:think

Actually your posts on this matter are void of logic and objectivity. You can´t ignore against whome his performances come when judging him. He wouldn´t look as superior against great opposition. In fact he would look inferior against many atgs.

[billy boy balbo]

no one beats a prime roy ,,no one!!!

[bodhi]

Monzon never fought as good a Middleweight as Jones. What does that prove?

Monzon fought better mws than Jones was. Benvenuti, Valdes were both better than the Jones who fought at mw.

[ricardoparker93]

mw:
favs: Robinson, Monzon, Hagler, Fitzsimmons (depending on ruleset), Burley;
50/50: Tiger, Steele, Zale, Valdes, Walker;
others: Dempsey, Ryan and Greb I think would at least be 50/50 too but there´s too much speculation involved to seriously discuss this.

smw:
fav: Fitzsimmons, Choynski, Langford (if you count them as smws and depending on ruleset);
50/50: Calzaghe.

lhw:
favs: Charles, Moore, Foster, Spinks, Tunney, Fitzsimmons (depending on ruleset), Langford (depending on ruleset);
50/50: Loughran, H. Johnson, Conn, Bivins;
others: Greb would be at least 50/50 too but there´s too much speculation involved to seriously discuss this;
And as a wildcard I´d like to throw out Berlenbach, who has a seriosu chance KOing Jones.

I think you need to watch more Roy Jones if you think these guys beat him in his prime :patsch it's one thing to respect old timers but it's another to disregard their obvious limitations.

[Son of Gaul]

Actually your posts on this matter are void of logic and objectivity. You can´t ignore against whome his performances come when judging him. He wouldn´t look as superior against great opposition. In fact he would look inferior against many atgs.

Remember that the thread is asking who would beat him head to head not..."Who rates higher on an ATG list?" The latter would require us to scrutinize records, quality of competition and reign. This thread, by definition, only asks us to examine RJJ's physical attributes and fighting style then decide how these variables(in his prime) would impact his chances in classic matchups. No objective analyst can favor ANYONE over RJJ at 160/168 given his reflexes, hand/foot speed and power.

[Pimp C]

At 160 he's beatable so many ATGs there.
At 168 no one touches him he beats everyone there.
At 175 he beatable and just like 160 so many ATGs there.

[OBCboxer]

160-168 Nobody beats RJJ. At 175 I could see Spinks & Charles beating him.

[Abdullah]

Me...Mwahahahahah!!!!

[bodhi]

Remember that the thread is asking who would beat him head to head not..."Who rates higher on an ATG list?" The latter would require us to scrutinize records, quality of competition and reign. This thread, by definition, only asks us to examine RJJ's physical attributes and fighting style then decide how these variables(in his prime) would impact his chances in classic matchups. No objective analyst can favor ANYONE over RJJ at 160/168 given his reflexes, hand/foot speed and power.

You see in this thread that many do. And sorry when you judge a fighters attributes you have to look against who he showed it. You are only as strong as your opponent let you be. The better the opponent the less good you will look. It´s very very rare that an elite oponent is outclassed and that has to do with the "styles make fights" most of the time.

[Blood Green]

Tarver basically did it. Roy fell off after his jaw got shattered. Tarver would present problems at any point in Roy's career.

[Son of Gaul]

Tarver basically did it. Roy fell off after his jaw got shattered. Tarver would present problems at any point in Roy's career.

Now I do agree with that. Tarver was a long, powerful southpaw and RJJ would always have problems with him, even if they had fought at 175 when Roy was 25. Same argument can be made for Michael Moorer, who I would also favor against RJJ at 175 at any point in his career. I still challenge you to find someone who could realistically be a betting favorite against RJJ at 160/168 in his prime...:bart