Supposing Ali fought Shavers in 1974 instead of '77

[Stevie G]

A friend commented that if this fight had taken place in '74 instead of three years later,when it actually did,it would have panned out just the same,as both men were better. I strongly disagree. Imo,Shavers had improved in those three years,while Ali had slipped considerably. My take is that Ali would have whipped Earnie far more convincingly. Maybe scoring a shutout like Larry Holmes did in their first fight. Shavers' right hand would always need watching,of course.

[kenmore]

A friend commented that if this fight had taken place in '74 instead of three years later,when it actually did,it would have panned out just the same,as both men were better. I strongly disagree. Imo,Shavers had improved in those three years,while Ali had slipped considerably. My take is that Ali would have whipped Earnie far more convincingly. Maybe scoring a shutout like Larry Holmes did in their first fight. Shavers' right hand would always need watching,of course.

I completely agree with you. The 1974 Ali would have decisively outboxed the 1974 Shavers. Ali would have won via late round TKO or a one sided decision.

By 1977, Ali's reflexes and mental intensity had slowed just a tad, which is why he was geting hit more in the ring. Thus, Shavers caught the 1977 Ali with punches that the 1974 Ali probably would have blocked or slipped.

Also, the 1974 Ali had a more energetic offensive than the Ali of 1977. I could see the 1974 Ali suddenly stunning Shavers with a sneak right and then scoring the kayo with rapid fire flurry of punches.

[Titan1]

Ali may have stopped Earnie late if it happened in 1974.

[Lobotomy]

Earnie was a late bloomer who was probably as well prepared for Ali in 1977 as he could have been. While his training conditions were far from ideal (such as working in a gym with no heat), he had been extended into ten rounds by Henry Clark and Tiger Williams the previous year, work he badly needed to help develop his operational endurance.

In 1974, Ali's power was as effective as it ever became, if he wasn't quite the same athlete he'd been in the mid 1960s. He seriously stunned Frazier early in their middle fight, and staggered Foreman a few times prior to the knockout blow. Going into Kinshasa, Muhammad had also gone the 12 round distance five consecutive times. Something else that needs to be remembered is that Ali was actually a fast starter for his style of boxing, and he usually won the opening round. Shavers would never have caught him cold.

1974 was not a good year for Earnie. He entered it coming off the blowout loss to Quarry, got floored late and decisioned over ten by the resourceful Bob Stallings, then barely survived against Jimmy Young, being extremely fortunate to escape with a draw. His peak years were '76, '77, '78 and '79.

During 1974, Shavers wouldn't have gotten out of the middle rounds against Muhammad. If Ali had granted Earnie a 12 round NABF title shot between Frazier II and Foreman, in the late spring or early summer, he'd have likely taken Shavers out in seven or eight rounds. (While Muhammad was prudent not to risk his shot at Foreman by competing after Frazier II, I would have liked to see him take on first rate opposition anyway. Those were potentially some of the best months of his second career. Norton and Frazier really pushed him to that higher level he needed for Africa.)

[he grant]

Ali would have stopped him before 12 ..

[prime]

Earnie was a late bloomer who was probably as well prepared for Ali in 1977 as he could have been. While his training conditions were far from ideal (such as working in a gym with no heat), he had been extended into ten rounds by Henry Clark and Tiger Williams the previous year, work he badly needed to help develop his operational endurance.

In 1974, Ali's power was as effective as it ever became, if he wasn't quite the same athlete he'd been in the mid 1960s. He seriously stunned Frazier early in their middle fight, and staggered Foreman a few times prior to the knockout blow. Going into Kinshasa, Muhammad had also gone the 12 round distance five consecutive times. Something else that needs to be remembered is that Ali was actually a fast starter for his style of boxing, and he usually won the opening round. Shavers would never have caught him cold.

1974 was not a good year for Earnie. He entered it coming off the blowout loss to Quarry, got floored late and decisioned over ten by the resourceful Bob Stallings, then barely survived against Jimmy Young, being extremely fortunate to escape with a draw. His peak years were '76, '77, '78 and '79.

During 1974, Shavers wouldn't have gotten out of the middle rounds against Muhammad. If Ali had granted Earnie a 12 round NABF title shot between Frazier II and Foreman, in the late spring or early summer, he'd have likely taken Shavers out in seven or eight rounds. (While Muhammad was prudent not to risk his shot at Foreman by competing after Frazier II, I would have liked to see him take on first rate opposition anyway. Those were potentially some of the best months of his second career. Norton and Frazier really pushed him to that higher level he needed for Africa.)

Astute, informative observations as usual, Lobotomy. Thanks.

[Stevie G]

Come to think of it,a 1974 Ali would have beaten a '77 version of Shavers pretty easily.

[choklab]

agreed, sharvers was fun but never world champion material. he was at his best when he did fight ali. that version of ali realy flatters shavers legacy. ali had him on the brink of a stopage at the final bell.

[tommygun711]

Ali would have destroyed him. this Ali was pretty fast and powerful, and earnies chin was not that great. earnie was about to get stopped in the 15th round with that Ali flurry wow and Ali was not the same Ali that he was 3-4 years ago... makes me think earnie wouldn't have stood a chance.
is it just me or is earnies jab severly underrated

[choklab]

Ali would have destroyed him. this Ali was pretty fast and powerful, and earnies chin was not that great. earnie was about to get stopped in the 15th round with that Ali flurry wow and Ali was not the same Ali that he was 3-4 years ago... makes me think earnie wouldn't have stood a chance.
is it just me or is earnies jab severly underrated

shavers jab is underrated mostly beacuse it was underused. shavers had many of the components of a great fighter but he came undone so many times it prevents him from being champion material. he was square shoulderd and got caught square footed, his head would pop up as he punched. His heavy arms and the enormous effort invoved in putting so much into each shot sapped him of evrything. im not knocking shavers since there was no quit in him but some people get carried away with earnie. he was an exciting contender but id leave it at that.

[Stevie G]

shavers jab is underrated mostly beacuse it was underused. shavers had many of the components of a great fighter but he came undone so many times it prevents him from being champion material. he was square shoulderd and got caught square footed, his head would pop up as he punched. His heavy arms and the enormous effort invoved in putting so much into each shot sapped him of evrything. im not knocking shavers since there was no quit in him but some people get carried away with earnie. he was an exciting contender but id leave it at that.
His right hand was pretty much the best part of his arsenal. If his left hand had been the same as the right,he'd have done a lot better.

[Bill Butcher]

A friend commented that if this fight had taken place in '74 instead of three years later,when it actually did,it would have panned out just the same,as both men were better. I strongly disagree. Imo,Shavers had improved in those three years,while Ali had slipped considerably. My take is that Ali would have whipped Earnie far more convincingly. Maybe scoring a shutout like Larry Holmes did in their first fight. Shavers' right hand would always need watching,of course.

Agreed, Ali would have won easily on points or by late TKO in 74.

[kickbxn5]

Ali would have stopped Shavers in 74 no doubt.

[ThinBlack]

Muhammad has Earnie out of there no later than the tenth, eleventh round.

[Bill Butcher]

A friend commented that if this fight had taken place in '74 instead of three years later,when it actually did,it would have panned out just the same,as both men were better. I strongly disagree. Imo,Shavers had improved in those three years,while Ali had slipped considerably. My take is that Ali would have whipped Earnie far more convincingly. Maybe scoring a shutout like Larry Holmes did in their first fight. Shavers' right hand would always need watching,of course.

I agree, Ali had 2 fights in 74... vs Joe Frazier & George Foreman & he won them both, thats 2 top 10 HWs in their prime, Shavers would have been stopped vs the Ali of either of those fights.... any version of Shavers.

[Bill Butcher]

I wish people would stop bumping these threads, I usually post then read the other posts, I was confused for a couple of seconds when I got to my 1st post in this thread - from 2010 :lol:

[ETM]

Ali got the decison in `77 but did he really beat Shavers? Eh...coulda went either way. At that point in his career Ali was gettting 8 rounds from the judges just for showing up.

Had they fought a few years earlier Ali was much sharper. In `74 Ali had a real jab. He still had some pop on it. As opposed to the flick it became after Manila.

Ali probably dominating with a few scary moments...TKO 11

[Longhhorn71]

In 1974 Don King may have still been managing Shavers.....and in any Don King fight
ANYTHING can happen (see "loose ropes" in the Ali vs Foreman)