Best strategy for a boxer vs a mma fighter?

[Bogotazo]

Whether in a ring or in the streets, a boxer and an mma fighter are going to have different approaches, tendencies, styles, strengths and weaknesses when engaging in combat. MMA is the more varied style against strike-focused boxers, but the spreading out often allows for opportunities that skilled boxers dream of.

Within the nature of the sports themselves, distance, rhythm, defense and offense differ greatly. A mixed martial artist has various tools to deal with striking, either matching it or eliminating it by taking the fight to the ground. How would a boxer best deal with the approach of an MMA fighter? How would they control distance? What combination of head-movement, footwork, and countering would be most effective in defending and attacking a well-rounded MMA fighter? It's a bit easier to sort this out in the legal sports world- would the dynamics of this strategy change at all on the street?

It is always best if a fighter is knowingly encountering an MMA fighter to understand the fundamentals of the non-boxing elements, but if you answer I'd appreciate a boxing-focused approach.

[T.C.W]

in street it is just explode, first in best dressed. MMA ground game and locks and shit doesn't work in street fighting, you get in first and be sober that helps a great deal.

[James23]

in street it is just explode, first in best dressed. MMA ground game and locks and shit doesn't work in street fighting, you get in first and be sober that helps a great deal.

Yeah, that whole ground fighting thing doesn't work in real life...

What the fuck do Navy S.E.A.L.S., the F.B.I., State Police, Special Forces know? Those retards and learning that ground fighting...

[T.C.W]

Yeah, that whole ground fighting thing doesn't work in real life...

What the fuck do Navy S.E.A.L.S., the F.B.I., State Police, Special Forces know? Those retards and learning that ground fighting...
look man. you don't won't to be on the ground ever in a fight. A street fight is not a controlled in environment, anything can happen. when standing your vision is a lot better and your movement to run, see other people you won't in the fight AKA the person friends your fighting, who ever or what ever bop up, if your on ground your very exposed.

simple rule get in first and make it very quick.

[Koa]

look man. you don't won't to be on the ground ever in a fight. A street fight is not a controlled in environment, anything can happen. when standing your vision is a lot better and your movement to run, see other people you won't in the fight AKA the person friends your fighting, who ever or what ever bop up, if your on ground your very exposed.

simple rule get in first and make it very quick.

Strategy is to try and be wary of a takedown, but also be wary of getting grabbed.. Fact is, a boxer vs. an MMA fighter is at a huge disadvantage everywhere except close punching range.

Someone with some very minor Judo or Greco skills will fuck a boxers world up as soon as they grab hold, as they can just drop you on your head without them ever being on the ground. Lots of freestyle wresting background guys will be just as dangerous standing in the clinch..

Fight doesn't even need to go to the ground.. Then, a boxer has to worry about kickboxing styles that incorporate the thai plum. Get kicked in the knee, then you try to close the distance only for the opponent to easily overpower you with his grip, smash ribs to soften you, then smash face on the knees.

Boxers, in a street fight really need to strike first, strike hard and finish quickly. This, isn't boxing as we know it today. Today's boxing is all about controlling the distance and powering from outside *Klit* Pot shotting, outscoring, shoulder roll and being slick *Mayweather*.

[tri-pod]

in street it is just explode, first in best dressed. MMA ground game and locks and shit doesn't work in street fighting, you get in first and be sober that helps a great deal.


:lol:

Thank god we have the fighting master on here to tell us all whats up.

[amhlilhaus]

anyone who thinks you can just take someone down in a street fight, work for a submission and voila is delusional. take someone down and try to choke them, meanwhile realize that your balls, eyes, throat etc etc are wide open and if you don't lock that choke in stat, well..........

[James23]

anyone who thinks you can just take someone down in a street fight, work for a submission and voila is delusional. take someone down and try to choke them, meanwhile realize that your balls, eyes, throat etc etc are wide open and if you don't lock that choke in stat, well..........

How many street fights you know, or have seen, or have even heard of, where someone gets their eyes gouged out? Their adams apple crushed?

Yeah, strikes to the groin can happen, but it's actually kinda rare...

The entire reason that BJJ was developed was to give people the greatest means to control a fight without causing damage if necessary.

It's shockingly easy to apply a submission hold on someone who knows little or nothing about grappling. So, it's not like you'll be playing BJJ if you get into a scuffle. It's usually 5-20 seconds before even a novice grappler (nevermind an expert) to apply a submission hold/choke.

[James23]

look man. you don't won't to be on the ground ever in a fight. A street fight is not a controlled in environment, anything can happen. when standing your vision is a lot better and your movement to run, see other people you won't in the fight AKA the person friends your fighting, who ever or what ever bop up, if your on ground your very exposed.

simple rule get in first and make it very quick.

Okay, you've got a boxers mentality. That's fine, and perfectly reasonable.

However, from a martial artists mentality, the number one thing you want to do, is avoid any physical confrontation by any means possible.

However, if it is unavoidable, the proven best way to handle a confrontation situation is with grappling. It gives the grappler the greatest degree of control possible.

As for the guys "friends," well, despite what you see in Kung Fu movies, even Fedor would be in some trouble against 3 or more guys...2 is workable but extremely difficult.

[james4210]

look man. you don't won't to be on the ground ever in a fight. A street fight is not a controlled in environment, anything can happen. when standing your vision is a lot better and your movement to run, see other people you won't in the fight AKA the person friends your fighting, who ever or what ever bop up, if your on ground your very exposed.

simple rule get in first and make it very quick.

I agree totally. you are on the ground aplying a rear naked choke, and there friend comes a boots your head off your shoulders.

Point 2 if you try a submision on people they can give up and then attack you when you let them off, unless you break joints or render unconcious.

But its good to know what to do on the ground. Fights generaly start with wild flayling and then two people rolling around on the ground.

[tri-pod]

anyone who thinks you can just take someone down in a street fight, work for a submission and voila is delusional. take someone down and try to choke them, meanwhile realize that your balls, eyes, throat etc etc are wide open and if you don't lock that choke in stat, well..........

No but you could slam them for one thing. Another thing is how many street fights have you seen where people actually do all that crazy shit?

After all, the US Marines wouldn't have their own martial arts program they teach to every Marine plus advance classes for Marines who want to progress farther if it was all useless in a street fight/life or death combat scenario.

[Jimbob]

How many street fights you know, or have seen, or have even heard of, where someone gets their eyes gouged out? Their adams apple crushed?

Yeah, strikes to the groin can happen, but it's actually kinda rare...


I've seen loads of fights were people have had a nose or ear bitten off, or had their eye's gouged to the point of bleeding.

I've seen a 6ft 14 stone jiu jitsu champion get badly hurt and have the shit kicked out him in a street fight by a skinny 17 year old kid who was using such tactics. For all his size and skill he was simply overwhelmed by ferocious aggression.

Kicking, punching and bites to the groin are a very common tactic in fights for some people. What you need to remember is that some people are just mental when it comes to fighting.

Biting is the most dangerous weapon you have in a fight.

[James23]

I've seen loads of fights were people have had a nose or ear bitten off, or had their eye's gouged to the point of bleeding.

I've seen a 6ft 14 stone jiu jitsu champion get badly hurt and have the shit kicked out him in a street fight by a skinny 17 year old kid who was using such tactics. For all his size and skill he was simply overwhelmed by ferocious aggression.

Kicking, punching and bites to the groin are a very common tactic in fights for some people. What you need to remember is that some people are just mental when it comes to fighting.

Biting is the most dangerous weapon you have in a fight.

I am at a loss for words...I have no words.:roll:

[Kevin_Wright]

I haven't been in enough real fights to tell you :nut

Seems like all the ones I have been in have been more like, fist fights. I would say. Settling shit like "men."

As opposed to all out, balls to the wall Im going to rip your head off. Becuase I am so pissed off about something you did. Type of shit.

[james4210]

I've seen loads of fights were people have had a nose or ear bitten off, or had their eye's gouged to the point of bleeding.

I've seen a 6ft 14 stone jiu jitsu champion get badly hurt and have the shit kicked out him in a street fight by a skinny 17 year old kid who was using such tactics. For all his size and skill he was simply overwhelmed by ferocious aggression.

Kicking, punching and bites to the groin are a very common tactic in fights for some people. What you need to remember is that some people are just mental when it comes to fighting.

Biting is the most dangerous weapon you have in a fight.

I could take out four UFC chapions once. Just drive my car into them as they walk down the street.

Hurting people is very easy for anyone. Any fightings is very dangerious.

Anyone who starts a street fight is either a dumass or drunk out their brain.

[achillesthegreat]

A boxer must use his range and timing to sharpshoot and potshot big shots. The sooner he closes the show, the better.

[Son of Gaul]

Whether in a ring or in the streets, a boxer and an mma fighter are going to have different approaches, tendencies, styles, strengths and weaknesses when engaging in combat. MMA is the more varied style against strike-focused boxers, but the spreading out often allows for opportunities that skilled boxers dream of.

Within the nature of the sports themselves, distance, rhythm, defense and offense differ greatly. A mixed martial artist has various tools to deal with striking, either matching it or eliminating it by taking the fight to the ground. How would a boxer best deal with the approach of an MMA fighter? How would they control distance? What combination of head-movement, footwork, and countering would be most effective in defending and attacking a well-rounded MMA fighter? It's a bit easier to sort this out in the legal sports world- would the dynamics of this strategy change at all on the street?

It is always best if a fighter is knowingly encountering an MMA fighter to understand the fundamentals of the non-boxing elements, but if you answer I'd appreciate a boxing-focused approach.

Land first and you have a really decent chance. It'll be the same situation with James Toney...if he lands first to the head, he'll when...if not, he'll lose...BADLY.

[Son of Gaul]

A boxer must use his range and timing to sharpshoot and potshot big shots. The sooner he closes the show, the better.

Exactly.

[Son of Gaul]

Strategy is to try and be wary of a takedown, but also be wary of getting grabbed.. Fact is, a boxer vs. an MMA fighter is at a huge disadvantage everywhere except close punching range.

Someone with some very minor Judo or Greco skills will fuck a boxers world up as soon as they grab hold, as they can just drop you on your head without them ever being on the ground. Lots of freestyle wresting background guys will be just as dangerous standing in the clinch..

Fight doesn't even need to go to the ground.. Then, a boxer has to worry about kickboxing styles that incorporate the thai plum. Get kicked in the knee, then you try to close the distance only for the opponent to easily overpower you with his grip, smash ribs to soften you, then smash face on the knees.

Boxers, in a street fight really need to strike first, strike hard and finish quickly. This, isn't boxing as we know it today. Today's boxing is all about controlling the distance and powering from outside *Klit* Pot shotting, outscoring, shoulder roll and being slick *Mayweather*.

The uppercut is another major weapon in avoiding a takedown.

[Son of Gaul]

in street it is just explode, first in best dressed. MMA ground game and locks and shit doesn't work in street fighting, you get in first and be sober that helps a great deal.

There's one major exception ...Aikido.

[codeman99998]

Land first and you have a really decent chance. It'll be the same situation with James Toney...if he lands first to the head, he'll when...if not, he'll lose...BADLY.

First off you spelled "win" incorrectly which makes me not want to even respond to your post.

Secondly, he only "wins" if his first punch finishes the fight and you have some retarded superhero image of boxers that they can end fights in one punch all the time and it just isn't true.

[Son of Gaul]

First off you spelled "win" incorrectly which makes me not want to even respond to your post.

Secondly, he only "wins" if his first punch finishes the fight and you have some retarded superhero image of boxers that they can end fights in one punch all the time and it just isn't true.

Thanks for the correction. Ok, when has a world class caliber boxer been in the octagon. Never until recently. Ray Mercer proved what will happen if they simply land first.

[Son of Gaul]

Thanks for the correction. Ok, when has a world class caliber boxer been in the octagon. Never until recently. Ray Mercer proved what will happen if they simply land first.

In addition James Toney, at this point, is head and shoulders above Ray Mercer in terms of hand speed and reflexes. Not to mention his accuracy.

[196osh]

In addition James Toney, at this point, is head and shoulders above Ray Mercer in terms of hand speed and reflexes. Not to mention his accuracy.

But not in power. So if he doesnt put the guy out and the guy gets to clinch....

[Jimbob]

Yeah, that whole ground fighting thing doesn't work in real life...

What the fuck do Navy S.E.A.L.S., the F.B.I., State Police, Special Forces know? Those retards and learning that ground fighting...

lol. What special forces do in regards to hand to hand combat might use some elements from various disciplines, but it is a million miles away from anything you will ever do in any martial arts. Spend a day with Mo Teague and hear what he has to say and you would realise this.

[James23]

Thanks for the correction. Ok, when has a world class caliber boxer been in the octagon. Never until recently. Ray Mercer proved what will happen if they simply land first.

Yes, Ray Mercer proved, with a single punch, that every time a boxer lands any one punch the fight is done against anyone...

Are you a politician? Cause I've always wondered if you believe the shit you're shoveling...

[James23]

lol. What special forces do in regards to hand to hand combat might use some elements from various disciplines, but it is a million miles away from anything you will ever do in any martial arts. Spend a day with Mo Teague and hear what he has to say and you would realise this.

Actually, Special Forces, S.E.A.L.S and other elite fighting units have received direct BJJ training from members of the Gracie family.

And thanks for assuming you know what I know. Always helps.

[bman]

You cant expect pure boxing to beat mma, because the mma guy is just going to take the fight to the ground or kick the crap out of them. But in saying that I beleive boxing is the best base for stand up in the mma the stance is better although in mma you square it up a little than muay thai for take downs. Boxers also have superior hands, head movement and feet with creating angles.

These days ko's in mma are a result of hands not feet, kicks are good to wear someone down but unless your cro crop or machida both world class kickers you aint going to knock someones head off with a kick although leg kicks hurt like hell.

So if you can learn good defence in takedowns , checking kicks and knees in the clinch plus superior boxing skills you'll have a great chance ala bj penn, silva, the nogs, rampage,belfort,kenflo, velasquez, do santos etc...

[Joe]

look man. you don't won't to be on the ground ever in a fight. A street fight is not a controlled in environment, anything can happen. when standing your vision is a lot better and your movement to run, see other people you won't in the fight AKA the person friends your fighting, who ever or what ever bop up, if your on ground your very exposed.

simple rule get in first and make it very quick.

Then tell the TS to change the name of the thread "Best strategy for a boxer and his friends vs an mma fighter" or how about this one since we are speculating outside unarmed h2h "Best strategy for a boxer vs an mma fighter with a gun"

[TheStraightLeft]

if you can learn good defence in takedowns , checking kicks and knees in the clinch plus superior boxing skills you'll have a great chance

This is the best piece of advice for a boxer.

[TheStraightLeft]

Then tell the TS to change the name of the thread "Best strategy for a boxer and his friends vs an mma fighter"

:yep:yep:yep lol

[signzoe]

the same people who think that mma junk would work in the streets are the same people who thought the *stone cold stunner would work in a real fight....mma is a step up from wwe really not a real sport but and *action sport along with the x-games and pro bullriding

[Bogotazo]

All interesting points. Hmm, should I have posted this in the training forum? Would someone mind moving it there? Different perspectives are always good.

[InHumanForm]

one on one, ground game rules....more than one person against one and you better not go anywhere near the ground...stick and move

[tri-pod]

the same people who think that mma junk would work in the streets are the same people who thought the *stone cold stunner would work in a real fight....mma is a step up from wwe really not a real sport but and *action sport along with the x-games and pro bullriding

So how does Wentz's cock taste?

[Primenal]

Punch him as quick as possible! I was reading Bruce Lee's training book one time (the one he used to teach his students), and he gave like 50 or so things to remember. One of them was if somebody gets in your face, near you, and you think your going to be in a fight HIT THEM IMMEDIATELY! No talking...No shoving...Simply hit em, and finish them off. Another one was use weapons, anything in the environment. It said something like "better them in the hospital than you." He also says to not think about what the other person is going to do, but think about what your going to do to them.
So, no hesitation, and fight dirty. I don't care what somebody knows...If I'm scared, and believe there's going to be a confrontation there getting hit! After that will be another one, maybe some grappling, knees, elbows, eye gouges, kick em in the sack, I don't care...

I practice a little bit of everything though when it comes to possible street fighting. My main thing is boxing, and a lot of inside fighting (with grappling/ controlling the bag, clinching, and hitting, etc). I also practice Forearms, knees, front kicks, kicks to the knee, kicks to the balls, sidekicks.
So, I can stick on the gloves, and box...But I mainly train for defense. Good to be well rounded no matter what the situation is.

[Kevin_Wright]

I agree, boxing is a sport, martial arts are arts. Fighting is survival. Although I box and karate, i will probably just kick your neck and twist your nose and snap your wrist in an actual "fight." Huge difference.

[coog]

the best thing for a boxer to do is ------to move

[Vitor Belfort]

Takedown defense and keep your hands up high and watch out for those kicks. Look at what chuck liddell did to those wrestlers when they couldn't take him down. He destroyed them on his feet.

Now imagine a boxer with better striking and defense would do to an MMA fighter who has to fight him on his feet. Kill kill kill kill em all:bbb

[Stoo]

Takedown defense and keep your hands up high and watch out for those kicks. Look at what chuck liddell did to those wrestlers when they couldn't take him down. He destroyed them on his feet.

Now imagine a boxer with better striking and defense would do to an MMA fighter who has to fight him on his feet. Kill kill kill kill em all:bbb
Or it could end up like Vitor/Chuck v Randy, mauled in the clinch.....

[rekcutnevets]

Stay off the ground. Don't hesitate to punch when in correct range, especially with the jab. The jab is the most under utilized weapon in mma. Stay off the ground. Keep your hands up, and don't get caught with a head kick. Stay off the ground. Immediately jab and get on bicycle if opponent reaches out. Avoiding clinches and takedowns is essential to staying off the ground. If you are not in punching range, get there or get way way back. Leg kicks are not fun. Above all, stay off the ground.

If you wind up on the ground, tap. That or bite, eye gouge, and do whatever else it takes to get disqualified.

[fatcity]

Two friends.Smith & Wesson.

[ross]

In a real life scenario your reflexes (aka punches) react so fast that a professional boxer could inflict alot of damage on someone. You have to remember these guys have more than likely been doing this and only this since a very young age, therefore their timing,speed, and accuracy is on another level.

[KERRIGAN]

There are some good hints for a boxer in this video

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[StreetsofRAGE]

In a street fight, against an MMA fighter, you box till you get in a clinch. Then simply grab a finger and break it off their hand, gouge the eyes, rip their throat out, etc. Grappling and BJJ is not a thing in the real world when you know how to be dirty.

[James23]

In a street fight, against an MMA fighter, you box till you get in a clinch. Then simply grab a finger and break it off their hand, gouge the eyes, rip their throat out, etc. Grappling and BJJ is not a thing in the real world when you know how to be dirty.

Again...I'm at a loss for words. I have no words.

[vinnie D'Andrea]

in the street it does explode but if a boxer wants an mma fighter he needs to keep moving have a good sprawl and probably a good doctor because a submission happens so quick if you have zero ground game, even in the street, but i do always say the best way out of a submission is alot of punches to the face.

[vinnie D'Andrea]

wow alot of you have never been in a fight b4 it would seem, if a boxer wants to win he needs to keep moving, work on a sprawl and get a real good doctor. a submission happens so quick if you dont have n e ground game. I box and fight in the cage but a boxer would be like a turtle on his back just hangin arms an legs every where probably would stand up an give u his back, then its goodnight, an i ve seen many wana b tough guys go down for thinking they knew how to fight. but i do always say the best way out of a submission is many many punches to the face and a high pain theshold, because u have a very short time b4 your on the ground looking really stupid and pissed your self cause u got choked out

[coog]

I've seen loads of fights were people have had a nose or ear bitten off, or had their eye's gouged to the point of bleeding.

I've seen a 6ft 14 stone jiu jitsu champion get badly hurt and have the shit kicked out him in a street fight by a skinny 17 year old kid who was using such tactics. For all his size and skill he was simply overwhelmed by ferocious aggression.

Kicking, punching and bites to the groin are a very common tactic in fights for some people. What you need to remember is that some people are just mental when it comes to fighting.

Biting is the most dangerous weapon you have in a fight. You didn't see that happen

[196osh]

Again...I'm at a loss for words. I have no words.

:rofl

Its so true.

I mean how on earth did the BJJ guys and wrestlers manage to clean up early no holds bared everything and I mean everything goes tournies.

Idiots.

[MattMattMatt]

:rofl

Its so true.

I mean how on earth did the BJJ guys and wrestlers manage to clean up early no holds bared everything and I mean everything goes tournies.

Idiots.

I always find it funny when people think that boxers somehow have this miraculous dirty fighting resource that will cancel out all of the BJJ guys training if the fight went to the ground. Newsflash: all the street fighting 'techniques' that supposedly render ground fighting useless are tools that are also available to those who are trained in ground fighting.

[Spunik]

Best strategies

1. Wear your boxing gloves
2. Use a mouthpiece
3. Headgear
4. Boxing Ring
5. Ref
6. Marquess of Queensberry rules

[James23]

I always find it funny when people think that boxers somehow have this miraculous dirty fighting resource that will cancel out all of the BJJ guys training if the fight went to the ground. Newsflash: all the street fighting 'techniques' that supposedly render ground fighting useless are tools that are also available to those who are trained in ground fighting.

THANK YOU! Holy fucking shit! If this place had a Rep button, I'd give you a million points.

[bald_head_slick]

A boxer's best weapon is KNOWLEDGE. A boxer would evaluate an opponent from the waist up not expecting kicks. A boxer would not expect to be shot on. Without that knowledge he loses. Point blank.

If a boxer has take down defense, can judge foot placement to keep an MMA fighter out of kicking position, and can close distance with good footwork? He sparks out an MMA fighter with a few good shots.

[pukematrixx]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Diomedes]

I always find it funny when people think that boxers somehow have this miraculous dirty fighting resource that will cancel out all of the BJJ guys training if the fight went to the ground. Newsflash: all the street fighting 'techniques' that supposedly render ground fighting useless are tools that are also available to those who are trained in ground fighting.

Indeed. And what these dirty fighting proponents don't get is that the grappler has a vastly better ability to implement these techniques. If a grappler gets knocked down and mounted by the boxer who's about to gouge his eyes out, he can reverse that position and gain the upper hand almost instantly. If he's standing with the boxer he can choose when to take the boxer down and get into position to rip his balls off or crush his throat or whatever the sadistic bastard he is wants. Both men may have thumbs that can be forced into another's eye socket, but the grappler chooses if and when he can use that and can vastly better avoid it being done to him.

I've only done a few months of BJJ back when I was in NZ and could afford it, and I'm rusty as fuck, but just a few weeks ago I demonstrated some submissions to a few MMA curious boxers at a gym here in Saigon. It doesn't take more than a few seconds to have them perfectly controlled, unable to move, for me to have their arm where I can break it at will or their brain no more than a few seconds away from unconsciousness because I control its blood supply and they don't know what to do. They're panicked and they've got nothing. They don't know what I'm doing and it's done too quickly for them to do anything about it. And I'm practically a novice. I'd get owned in two seconds flat if I stepped back onto the mats at a BJJ training center.

Sometimes I wonder if the MMA forum on this board should be restricted to people who can verify they've at least once attended and practiced a class with a trained grappler.

[sugarngold]

The best strategy for a boxer is the same as it is for any individual - to fight to one's strengths. However - lacking an understanding of the totality of combat is a hindrance for anyone facing an opponent that understands all of the ranges and phases of combat. Hand to hand combat is comprised of boxing, kicking, wrestling, and submissions. Understanding one area is good against an untrained individual - but those that understand them all will have the advantage. Like Sun Tzu says in the art of war "the general that knows the terrain will have the advantage."

Fighters that think they can just pull dirty tricks out of the hat to counter various martial arts are delusional. In jiujistsu you learn to counter all of the basic dirty trick tactics such as hair pulling, biting, groin attacks, eye gouging and so on with technique.

I'm always a proponent of Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do over any other basic style as they espouse the philosophy of understanding all the ranges of combat which includes everything from boxing to jiujitsu as well as training for street lethal reality which means - not just talking about using dirty tactics - but making them part of one's training and building those moves into one's combinations. As any experienced fighter will tell you - the way you train is the way you will fight. In this regard - even a "complete" mixed martial artist is not a complete martial artist as they do not train with regards to street lethality.

This is something I try to talk about in my thread about Jeet Kune Do - but people keep ruining the thread by turning it into an argument about Bruce Lee fighting in MMA which is a nonsensical argument. One might as well ask how Godzilla would do in the UFC because it would make about as much sense.

[codeman99998]

The best strategy for a boxer is the same as it is for any individual - to fight to one's strengths. However - lacking an understanding of the totality of combat is a hindrance for anyone facing an opponent that understands all of the ranges and phases of combat. Hand to hand combat is comprised of boxing, kicking, wrestling, and submissions. Understanding one area is good against an untrained individual - but those that understand them all will have the advantage. Like Sun Tzu says in the art of war "the general that knows the terrain will have the advantage."

Fighters that think they can just pull dirty tricks out of the hat to counter various martial arts are delusional. In jiujistsu you learn to counter all of the basic dirty trick tactics such as hair pulling, biting, groin attacks, eye gouging and so on with technique.

I'm always a proponent of Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do over any other basic style as they espouse the philosophy of understanding all the ranges of combat which includes everything from boxing to jiujitsu as well as training for street lethal reality which means - not just talking about using dirty tactics - but making them part of one's training and building those moves into one's combinations. As any experienced fighter will tell you - the way you train is the way you will fight. In this regard - even a "complete" mixed martial artist is not a complete martial artist as they do not train with regards to street lethality.

This is something I try to talk about in my thread about Jeet Kune Do - but people keep ruining the thread by turning it into an argument about Bruce Lee fighting in MMA which is a nonsensical argument. One might as well ask how Godzilla would do in the UFC because it would make about as much sense.

I don't know exactly what you mean by "street lethality" but if you think most street fights are fights to the death you are way way wrong.

[196osh]

Indeed. And what these dirty fighting proponents don't get is that the grappler has a vastly better ability to implement these techniques. If a grappler gets knocked down and mounted by the boxer who's about to gouge his eyes out, he can reverse that position and gain the upper hand almost instantly. If he's standing with the boxer he can choose when to take the boxer down and get into position to rip his balls off or crush his throat or whatever the sadistic bastard he is wants. Both men may have thumbs that can be forced into another's eye socket, but the grappler chooses if and when he can use that and can vastly better avoid it being done to him.

I've only done a few months of BJJ back when I was in NZ and could afford it, and I'm rusty as fuck, but just a few weeks ago I demonstrated some submissions to a few MMA curious boxers at a gym here in Saigon. It doesn't take more than a few seconds to have them perfectly controlled, unable to move, for me to have their arm where I can break it at will or their brain no more than a few seconds away from unconsciousness because I control its blood supply and they don't know what to do. They're panicked and they've got nothing. They don't know what I'm doing and it's done too quickly for them to do anything about it. And I'm practically a novice. I'd get owned in two seconds flat if I stepped back onto the mats at a BJJ training center.

Sometimes I wonder if the MMA forum on this board should be restricted to people who can verify they've at least once attended and practiced a class with a trained grappler.

Great post. :good

[sugarngold]

I don't know exactly what you mean by "street lethality" but if you think most street fights are fights to the death you are way way wrong.

It just means anything goes.

[Kevin_Wright]

The best strategy for the boxer is to stay on his feet in punch distance. And if taken down get up. Or don't get taken down.

Best strategy for MMA is to slip punches, shoot, take down and look for chokes or submissions.

[Kevin_Wright]

Indeed. And what these dirty fighting proponents don't get is that the grappler has a vastly better ability to implement these techniques. If a grappler gets knocked down and mounted by the boxer who's about to gouge his eyes out, he can reverse that position and gain the upper hand almost instantly. If he's standing with the boxer he can choose when to take the boxer down and get into position to rip his balls off or crush his throat or whatever the sadistic bastard he is wants. Both men may have thumbs that can be forced into another's eye socket, but the grappler chooses if and when he can use that and can vastly better avoid it being done to him.

I've only done a few months of BJJ back when I was in NZ and could afford it, and I'm rusty as fuck, but just a few weeks ago I demonstrated some submissions to a few MMA curious boxers at a gym here in Saigon. It doesn't take more than a few seconds to have them perfectly controlled, unable to move, for me to have their arm where I can break it at will or their brain no more than a few seconds away from unconsciousness because I control its blood supply and they don't know what to do. They're panicked and they've got nothing. They don't know what I'm doing and it's done too quickly for them to do anything about it. And I'm practically a novice. I'd get owned in two seconds flat if I stepped back onto the mats at a BJJ training center.

Sometimes I wonder if the MMA forum on this board should be restricted to people who can verify they've at least once attended and practiced a class with a trained grappler.
Yeah I bet it felt good to demonstrate them your mad BJJ skills on these boxers who have never done that shit before.

:rofl:rofl:rofl

[DudeGuyMan]

Man, I gotta ask even though it's not strictly topical and has nothing to do with boxers... Even if you can go to ground in a street fight, do you really want to?

I mean you're in the club, some paranoid drunk bastard who thinks you've been looking at his woman comes up and takes a swing at you. Do you really want to go to ground with him? You don't know if he has a friend who's going to run up and boot your head off.

"But DGM, this thread is about a one-on-one street fight!"

Yeah okay, great, but my point is that in the street you just never know. You don't wanna be going "But this is unfair, one-on-one I'd win!" as you get kicked to death. Or the whole thing about dirty fighting.

"Dirty fighting isn't something only non-MMA dudes can do! If he can try to gouge my eyes out, I can try to gouge his too!"

Okay, again, great. But you still gotta go home after this, you know? It would probably be better if you didn't end up in a position where this was a consideration.

I wish I could cite the issue, but I seem to recall Bas Rutten saying in Black Belt Magazine that going to the ground during a fight in a bar or something would be idiotic. You're better off closing in long enough to throw the guy to the ground, then kicking him in the head, running away, or hitting him with a chair.

[THEBODYSHOT]

Smash there nose and chin in

[Diomedes]

Yeah I bet it felt good to demonstrate them your mad BJJ skills on these boxers who have never done that shit before.

:rofl:rofl:rofl

Oh I see - so this thread is really "Best strategy for an MMA trained Boxer vs an MMA trained fighter?". If we're essentially comparing MMA strikers vs MMA grapplers then there's a long history of examples for us to study in the ring and the cage.

[Diomedes]

Man, I gotta ask even though it's not strictly topical and has nothing to do with boxers... Even if you can go to ground in a street fight, do you really want to?

I mean you're in the club, some paranoid drunk bastard who thinks you've been looking at his woman comes up and takes a swing at you. Do you really want to go to ground with him? You don't know if he has a friend who's going to run up and boot your head off.

"But DGM, this thread is about a one-on-one street fight!"

Yeah okay, great, but my point is that in the street you just never know. You don't wanna be going "But this is unfair, one-on-one I'd win!" as you get kicked to death. Or the whole thing about dirty fighting.

"Dirty fighting isn't something only non-MMA dudes can do! If he can try to gouge my eyes out, I can try to gouge his too!"

Okay, again, great. But you still gotta go home after this, you know? It would probably be better if you didn't end up in a position where this was a consideration.

I wish I could cite the issue, but I seem to recall Bas Rutten saying in Black Belt Magazine that going to the ground during a fight in a bar or something would be idiotic. You're better off closing in long enough to throw the guy to the ground, then kicking him in the head, running away, or hitting him with a chair.

I would avoid the ground unless I was very confident that it was and would stay 1 on 1. But there's still plenty you can do, grappling-wise, standing, or with you standing and your opponent violently placed on the ground. Then there's the fact that you might end up on the ground anyway, possibly due to environmental factors - things to trip on - possibly due to getting hit and knocked down, or whatever - and from there, it's bloody good to be able to be able to reverse positions and gain the upper hand, and to be able to choose to stand up and keep your opponent on the ground where you kick him or whatever.

The fact is though, someone with decent grappling experience won't need to eye gouge, even if their opponent is. There are just too many different great submissions that can be pulled off to need to eye gouge unless it's basically a "Hah, you want to eye gouge me? Fine, Ill show you how it's done" kind of affair. Which reinforces a point I've made before which is, if you use dirty fighting moves you set a precedent for what's acceptable in the fight, you give the other guy ideas, and you might not be the best one at implementing them, not to mention that legal consequences for the damage you do with those moves may be much greater than comparatively gently choking someone out, for example.

[James23]

The best strategy for the boxer is to stay on his feet in punch distance. And if taken down get up. Or don't get taken down.

Best strategy for MMA is to slip punches, shoot, take down and look for chokes or submissions.

LOL! Holy crap! Amazing advice!

Fucking idiots in MMA when they get taken down they don't just "get up!" I think you should coach, clearly you got it all down.

[iksrtfo]

an MMA fighter is a boxer....and a kick boxer....and wrestler

[coog]

in street it is just explode, first in best dressed. MMA ground game and locks and shit doesn't work in street fighting, you get in first and be sober that helps a great deal. Have you ever been in a fight?

[puertorricane]

best strategy is to knock him the fuck out.. as soon as they lower their head to try and take you down hit him with and upper right between the eyes.. he wont get up

:hat

[196osh]

best strategy is to knock him the fuck out.. as soon as they lower their head to try and take you down hit him with and upper right between the eyes.. he wont get up

:hat

Get yourself down to an MMA gym and try that out.

Also ask why Haye who has trained some mma says he cant do that? I would suspect Haye is a better boxer than you.

:yep

[puertorricane]

the only thing hayes has on me is size that's it he cant box for shit.. but most heavys cant

:hat

[PIRA]

:rofl


The best strategy is send puertorricane in! Anyone who is better than Haye could easily deal with every MMA fighter in the world! :rofl

[paloalto00]

Just work on the outside, ezpz

[Diomedes]

:rofl


The best strategy is send puertorricane in! Anyone who is better than Haye could easily deal with every MMA fighter in the world! :rofl

The only question is, how many MMA fighters would it take to beat puertorricane? Considering he could easily knock out any MMA fighter in one shot, combined with his speed and volume, I think it would take no less than 12 MMA fighters to overwhelm him, and even then I think he'd have a chance just by standing up when they take him down. :think

[Bill Butcher]

Keep it on the feet obviously, there is no scientific answer, its simple, look to land either one big bomb or time things & rush in with a barrage of punches & hope to end it immediately... be prepared to sprawl tho, even during punching.

[196osh]

the only thing hayes has on me is size that's it he cant box for shit.. but most heavys cant

:hat

:rofl

Ah right. Seems you have gone "full troll".

Fuck off.

[ghostlybadge]

where i am from you stand facing each other and swing like fuck untill someone gets knocked out then you kick they head and ribs and head again untill the police drag you off

very rear do fights last long enough that grappling skills can be used as if you are both on the floor then it is a free for all with everyone watching who will throw the kicks in.

[196osh]

where i am from you stand facing each other and swing like fuck untill someone gets knocked out then you kick they head and ribs and head again untill the police drag you off

very rear do fights last long enough that grappling skills can be used as if you are both on the floor then it is a free for all with everyone watching who will throw the kicks in.

:lol:

Read again it doesnt say a boxer and his mates vs an mma fighter.

Also round where you are in the back end of Wales how many good grapplers do you know?