Classics Opinion on David Tua

[The Pup]

Local boy so I had to ask :cool:
Need some advice on What tier David Tua most likely would belong to HW History
H2H very limited with that reach and pure reliance on his Left, on the other hand very robust chin so hes going the distance

How do you think he would fare against a Prime

- Cooney
- Terrell
- Norton

[mr. magoo]

I don't think that Norton can stop him, nor go 12 rounds to take a decision.. Tua probably stops him. Never saw much of Terrell, but wasn't too impressed with most of the footage I've seen. Slow fighter who didn't have much power and didn't really take full advantage of his height. He arguably lost to George Chuvalo, and was beaten by a few guys who weren't exactly top notch.. I think Tua takes him.... Cooney might be interesting.. If Gerry chooses to box rather than slug it out, his height and boxing ability might earn him a decision, but if he starts trading early, it might be dangerous.

[Seamus]

Tua crushes all three.

Next.

[young griffo]

Tua gets overrated in h2h matchups but I'd back him to stop all 3 of these guys early,especially the in shape mid-90's version.

[The Pup]

I don't think that Norton can stop him, nor go 12 rounds to take a decision.. Tua probably stops him. Never saw much of Terrell, but wasn't too impressed with most of the footage I've seen. Slow fighter who didn't have much power and didn't really take full advantage of his height. He arguably lost to George Chuvalo, and was beaten by a few guys who weren't exactly top notch.. I think Tua takes him.... Cooney might be interesting.. If Gerry chooses to box rather than slug it out, his height and boxing ability might earn him a decision, but if he starts trading early, it might be dangerous.

Thanks Magoo. Interesting take on Norton. I thought the same way about the Cooney fight. I really have trouble seeing Tua outpoint taller fighters after his no show vs Lennox so Terrell could be a Jab fest.

[Muchmoore]

Tua pre Ike was a force to be reckoned with. ATG power, and more importantly great late round power combined with an ATG chin gives you a shot against almost anyone.
Younger Tua also had quick hands and threw punches in bunches, he was a really, really good fighter. It's a shame that he lost his desire after his epic battle with Ibeabuchi and the faded shell that fought Byrd/Lewis/Rahman is the one often remembered. Tua has one of the better resumes of non champions in history, imo. Wins over Ruiz, Rahman, Maskaev, Moorer combined with wins over contenders like Oquendo, Wilson, Izon are a nice set of wins.

Anyway, I like Terrell to take a close decision over Tua but Tua to KO both Cooney and Norton. Few people could put a dent in Terrell and while Tua is capable I think the height and jab would be a little too much. Norton would freeze against Tua and Cooney isn't going to beat Tuaman going toe to toe.

[IntentionalButt]

Tua could be another Big George in the making...fighting at his best well after he was written off as too old.

Like George, it was assumed that with his limits in skill he'd become irrelevant as soon as the years started piling on and he slowed to the point where the bombs weren't landing. Like George, he has kept his strength through middle age and has made some stylistic adjustments to work with what he has left physically.

His two-round destruction of Cameron and his constant cutting off the ring and outworking of the durable and evasive Ahunanya don't exactly speak to him being the one to topple the Klitschkos...nor do they even prove that he's a legitimate top-ten contender in this fairly weak climate - but they do show that he's mastered head movement and punch variety far better than did any prime version of himself. The chin and power are still there, and he's added to them. It's hard to make the case that the young 90's version was a better fighter, IMO.

If he's able to go on a really good run and continue to exhibit these traits, that's the connection people will inevitable start making. Tua as a forty-something champion (read: titlist) does not seem that far fetched to me.

He does stop all three of these guys in their prime...with the possible exception of Gerry. Norton, while great, tears like wet paper here...bad match-up.

[The Pup]

^^^ Interesting take. Ideally Tua has shown improvement in his boxing ability at this age (Cameron n Ahunanya arent really any threat to anyone) but Personally it seems that what was left of his killer instinct evaporated in the ring after Cameron. He feinted excessively in the most boring fight I had seen in my life (Ahunanya) and didnt show enough to even come close to upsetting a Big like Vitali

[Jear]

Very underrated!!

His power has blinded some people to the subtleties he used. His left hook is phenomenal and his right hand is brutal, ask Moorer or Cameron just for starters. People claim he was being out boxed by Maskaev, Rahman and Izon and yeah maybe so (actually a draw with Maskaev at the point of stoppage) however he caught them because his body work caught up with them and he was/is very good at cutting the ring. His head movement is very good and he also makes himself very small when opponents try and find him

Check out his fights pre Barry, when he was with Duva and Turner etc.

Barry wrecked him!!!

Tua holds wins over

Rahman unbeaten at the time
Maskaev
Moorer
Ruiz

all titlists

and

Izon once beaten
Wilson unbeaten on the back of Briggs KO
Oquendo unbeaten
Nicholson 39-3

and a dubious decision loss to Never beaten Ibeabuchi

[The Wanderer]

This may be a touch off the main topic, but I just want to vent about it: as a guy who used to root big time for Tua way back when, one of the things that frustrated me so much about this guy was that after a certain point there were a number of fights that he could have either won or won much easier and more quickly if he'd just let his hands go more, especially in combination. There were times when I was ready to scream at the TV. I don't know if it was bad coaching, being in love with his power, shitty conditioning or some combination of all 3 and maybe more factors, but it drove me up the wall.

Okay, now that I have that out of the way, I have to give Tua a pretty decent chance against all 3 of these guys. Norton I think would have the same problem he does against big punchers; he would let himself get backed up, freeze early, and not have the firepower to hold the puncher off. Norton is hell on boxers, but substandard against punchers.

A prime Cooney might be able go for awhile, maybe even crawl to the distance if he fought solely in survival mode, but I don't see it as the most likely outcome. As a puncher himself Cooney's natural instinct would be to try to come forward himself, (which Tua would absolutely love) and if he does try to play keep away by using his height and reach, I don't think he has the defense to do that until he gets a decision. It's possible that Tua might underperform or try too hard to load up for the one punch KO and Cooney's heart could carry him to the end, but I have to think a Tua KO would be the most likely outcome.

Terrell has some of the physical tools needed to trouble Tua in his height, good jab, and decent handspeed. Like Magoo I haven't seen that much of Terrell in his prime, with that mostly being limited to a few clips from the Chuvalo fight and of course the disastrous Ali bout. I have to concur though that Terrell doesn't seem to maximize his height and reach, although he would surely be looking to do so in this matchup, at least if he or his corner have any sense whatsoever. Terrell was used to going with punchers, being a frequent sparring partner of Liston and having gone into the ring with a couple, most notably Cleveland Williams, who stopped Terrell with Ernie still on his feet.

Two factors jump out at me from the little film that I have seen: Terrell's foot movement did not look good from what I saw, being rather shuffling and slow, which is really bad for this matchup as using your feet is one of the best ways to keep Tua at bay. Secondly, Terrell seemed to tire down the stretch with Chuvalo, and let Chuvalo back into the fight after having taken many of the early rounds. There is no shame there, as a bout with Chuvalo is always a bruising affair that takes a toll on the opponent, but given Tua's late round heroics that could set Terrell up for a late KO.

I'm inconclusive on this one because I don't like making calls or predictions with fighters I haven't seen, but given Terrell's losses to lesser opposition and tendency not to make the best of his physical gifts, I'll say that Tua slowly wears him down and KOs him in the mid to late rounds.

[The Pup]

Very impressed by your post wonderer, thanks for the insight.

[duran duran]

tua is a classic case of could have should have he was never in shape the vast majority of the time even when he fought lewis he weighed in at 17 and a half stone which when you consider hes only 5 10 is a joke if he came in at around the 16 stone mark id have fancied him to knock lewis out

[lefthook31]

If Tua was promoted by Don King he would have been a multiple champion and probably would have faired better in a historical sense. Tua was exciting and explosive but he was easily outboxed by any decent technician.
I think a guy like Don King would have kept him in fights that he could have won easily and had him as champ for a while. As said he peaked in the Ike fight and with the split of Main Events he was never really the same. He fought less and became inactive and that was not a good thing for him. Tua would be a live dog against anyone with his punching power but as seen in the past he was always trailing on the cards against the better skilled fighters and had to win by KO to pull the fight out, something you never saw with a prime Tyson who could easily hang with skilled technicians.

[red cobra]

Norton-Tua would resemble Tua-Moorer, with Norton getting embalmed..quick, like in 2 minutes...Terrell would provide a frustrating encounter for Tua, with his clutching to survive and that long left jab..if Tua didn't become resigned as he did against Lewis, and there was really nothing that Terrell could do to him that Lewis possibly could, then it would result in an ugly, awkward 12 or 15 round decision for Tua...Tua would tear Cooney's head off..I don't think Cooney was the hardiest chap for taking bombs..(KO'ed by Holmes, Spinks and Foreman), well Tua hit harder than Holmes and Spinks and at least as hard as Foreman...two kds in the 1st and a ko early in the 2nd for Tua.

[TheGreatA]

Tua either loses a decision or wins by a late TKO against Terrell. Terrell on paper had every tool to beat Tua, long reach, a good jab, a solid chin, took few chances, but he didn't always use his height to his best advantage. Tua is one of the easiest top fighters to outpoint but it's difficult to survive the distance with him.

Norton was not dependable enough against big punchers. He would likely foolishly go against the ropes against Tua.

Cooney had fair skills and the height and reach but I question his ability to take a punch and survive in the late rounds.

[Unforgiven]

I'd expect Tua to knock out Norton and Cooney.

I'd expect Terrell to outbox him though.

[TommyV]

One of the most over-rated fighters going H2H. Some people simple think that because he has a great left hook and a very solid chin it equats to him knocking everybody out.

[lefthook31]

One of the most over-rated fighters going H2H. Some people simple think that because he has a great left hook and a very solid chin it equats to him knocking everybody out.
Well that lefthook caught up to a lot of guys who not only had good boxing skills but sturdy chins as well.

[TommyV]

Well that lefthook caught up to a lot of guys who not only had good boxing skills but sturdy chins as well.

Such as? Ruiz was green and got caught cold, Maskaev had a terrible chin, Moorer was practically dead in '02 and expected to be destroyed. He's been out-boxed by the likes of Hasim Rahman and Chris Byrd and out-slugged by Ike Ibeabuchi. He's been proven to be very beatable.

[lefthook31]

Such as? Ruiz was green and got caught cold, Maskaev had a terrible chin, Moorer was practically dead in '02 and expected to be destroyed. He's been out-boxed by the likes of Hasim Rahman and Chris Byrd and out-slugged by Ike Ibeabuchi. He's been proven to be very beatable.
Maskaev
Izon
Rahman
Oquendo
Nicholson

He was clearly behind in most of these fights and was bailed out by his power.

[tommygun711]

I think Terrell has the ability and reach to outpoint tua to another boring desicion, and the fact that he took ali's bombs for many long rounds is a testement for his solid chin. he also had a exhebetion with sonny Liston and sparred with him regularly. it would probably boil down to if Terrell could stay away from tua for many rounds, with tus still carrying that blockbuster punch.

cooney would certainly get stopped, he was by no means a great fighter and he may have had devestating KO power but crumbled when it came down to a real challenge. how could he expect to take a punch from tua when he can't take them from foreman, spinks and holmes?!

I think norton would get killed too, the way that he got destroyed by foreman and shavers makes me think he won't stand a chance against tua. he just couldn't fight against punchers period.

[janitor]

I think of Tua as sombody who narrowly missed greatness.

He had the power, workrate and durability to be another gret swarming fighter in the mould of Frazier or Marciano. His left hook was as hard as any I have seen from any fighter of any era.

The ingreedients necesary to polish this diamond would have been a good trainer and a good work ethic. Unfortunately neither was forthcoming.

I don't see Norton or Cooney giving him too much trouble but Terrel might have taken him on one of his off nights.

[TommyV]

Maskaev
Izon
Rahman
Oquendo
Nicholson

He was clearly behind in most of these fights and was bailed out by his power.

Exactly. Out-boxed and out-thought for the majority of those fights, and his power bailed him out against guys with terrible chins like Rahman and Maskaev.

[lefthook31]

Exactly. Out-boxed and out-thought for the majority of those fights, and his power bailed him out against guys with terrible chins like Rahman and Maskaev.
Rahman and Maskaev didnt have terrible chins. Moorer did against Tua but more because he was never a big heavyweight either, same as a guy like Norton who Tua would probably catch up with sooner or later.

[janitor]

Maskaev
Izon
Rahman
Oquendo
Nicholson

He was clearly behind in most of these fights and was bailed out by his power.

Didn't have to be that way.

With the right trainer and work ethic he could have been ahead in these fights when his power bailed him out.

[punchy]

I think of Tua as sombody who narrowly missed greatness.

He had the power, workrate and durability to be another gret swarming fighter in the mould of Frazier or Marciano. His left hook was as hard as any I have seen from any fighter of any era.

The ingreedients necesary to polish this diamond would have been a good trainer and a good work ethic. Unfortunately neither was forthcoming.

I don't see Norton or Cooney giving him too much trouble but Terrel might have taken him on one of his off nights.

I believe Tua management problems killed his potentially great career he just lost the hunger to fight. His basic fighting skills of a great chin, great power, stamina and speed and skills, which I feel are underrated, are the equal of the great swarmers in history.

[SuzieQ49]

He had the power, workrate and durability to be another gret swarming fighter in the mould of Frazier or Marciano.


You mention him being able to spark out frazier and marciano but leave out dempsey?

[tommygun711]

You mention him being able to spark out frazier and marciano but leave out dempsey?
he's just giving good examples of fighters that he could have been like. would you be okay if he added Dempsey? who cares.
honestly Dempsey is not 240 lb haha

[lefthook31]

I believe Tua management problems killed his potentially great career he just lost the hunger to fight. His basic fighting skills of a great chin, great power, stamina and speed and skills, which I feel are underrated, are the equal of the great swarmers in history.
I dont know. As Ive said in another post, Tyson was never trailing on the cards and needing to rely on his punching power to bail him out when he was younger. He had more dimension to his game used an effective jab and cut off the ring far better and against far better technically mobile fighters. Tua seemed to always trail for the good part of the fights.
Jeff Wooden who was mobile and not particularly that good gave Tua all kinds of fits. Guys like Rahman, Izon, and Maskaev who were basically flat footed slower guys gave Tua all kinds of problems just with a simple jab and a little bit of movement.
I think if you look at the era that Tua came up in, he fought a lot of up and coming tough contenders at the peak of their respective careers, and it was basically topped off by the best of the group in Ibeabuchi who many felt he beat, but once Tua started stepping up against name opponents under the American Presents banner, he became less active and less hungry and the things you mentioned, his stamina, high workrate and granite chin started to deplete and his shortcomings as a boxer became even more apparent.
Im 100% sure had he gone with King and gotten shots at a lot of his champions, such as Moorer, Holyfield, Botha, Mcall, etc, he could have been a more decorated fighter, but he was brought along very slowly, and was put in tough with a lot of undefeated young fighters that were pretty good so he was more champ of the contenders than champ of the world. I know Lou Duva was close with David and his parents, and was always very careful with what he did with Tua, but I always wondered why Main Events had no problem putting Golota in more high profile fights earlier in his career than Tua since Tua always looked better in the gym in my opinion, but maybe they knew he was going to self destruct all along, and just wanted to get the most out of him.

[Pusnuts]

Tua splatters Norton and Cooney , only Terrell would have a chance to outbox him but I dont think hes up to the job.

As for Tua's rating, I think hes probably the most accomplished HW contender to never win a belt. I cannot think of anyone with a better record since WW2 anyway.

Hes still looking decent for his age and inactivity but needs a true test vs someone hes never sparred before as he was already familiar with Ahunanya and Cameron.

[frankenfrank]

Such as? Ruiz was green and got caught cold, Maskaev had a terrible chin, Moorer was practically dead in '02 and expected to be destroyed. He's been out-boxed by the likes of Hasim Rahman and Chris Byrd and out-slugged by Ike Ibeabuchi. He's been proven to be very beatable.
2 years later that dead moorer KO'd vassily jirov.

[TommyV]

2 years later that dead moorer KO'd vassily jirov.

And? Jirov was past his best aswell, and was heavily ahead on points despite two cuts.

[Pusnuts]

Moorer never had a great chin and his style was perfect for Tua as well, it was that more than him not being at his best. He was hardly shot though.

[lefthook31]

Moorer never had a great chin and his style was perfect for Tua as well, it was that more than him not being at his best. He was hardly shot though.
Tua would have always beaten Moorer but Moorer was done in 97 in my opinion.

[Pusnuts]

I agree , that loss to Holyfield really seemed to take it out of him but he had a bit left, not like say Riddick Bowe now, but point taken

[PetethePrince]

Overrated

Had a lot of the tools, but never put it together. Too many excuses on him and too many weird expectations of him having a legit chance vs the Klitsckos.