Best strategy for a boxer vs a mma fighter?

[Bogotazo]

(I posted this in the MMA forum and got some good answers, but I thought I'd re-post it here so that I could get some more technical feedback)

Whether in a ring or in the streets, a boxer and an mma fighter are going to have different approaches, tendencies, styles, strengths and weaknesses when engaging in combat. MMA is the more varied style against strike-focused boxers, but the spreading out often allows for opportunities that skilled boxers dream of.

Within the nature of the sports themselves, distance, rhythm, defense and offense differ greatly. A mixed martial artist has various tools to deal with striking, either matching it or eliminating it by taking the fight to the ground. How would a boxer best deal with the approach of an MMA fighter? How would they control distance? What combination of head-movement, footwork, and countering would be most effective in defending and attacking a well-rounded MMA fighter? It's a bit easier to sort this out in the legal sports world- would the dynamics of this strategy change at all on the street?

It is always best if a fighter is knowingly encountering an MMA fighter to understand the fundamentals of the non-boxing elements, but if you answer I'd appreciate a boxing-focused approach.

[wordisbond]

Great question. I'd like to hear some answers as well.

[achillesthegreat]

As I said in the other thread "A boxer must use his range and timing to sharpshoot and potshot big shots. The sooner he closes the show, the better."

[POCKET SHOT]

1: in mma: TRAIN MMA!!
2: in streets: imo, grappling and taking it to the ground in the street is stupid.. how good is an armbar when 3 of his buddies are about to stomp on your head?plus.. while ya cant use small joint manipulations, eye gough or hit em in the groin to escape holds in mma..ya can in the street..
throw vicious combos, not givn them time to think and try pull a kinife or any shit like that

[taj-09]

the boxer must use his footwork to avoid being taken down, becaue once the mma fighter takes the boxer down he will have no defence.
The boxer must have the mma fighter at the end of his range as he punches then use footwork to get out of range and use angels.

[Kevin_Wright]

Punch his lights out.

[Jennifer Love Hewitt]

As a boxer, I'd kick him, because he would not be expecting that.

[PugilistStudent]

the boxer must use his footwork to avoid being taken down, becaue once the mma fighter takes the boxer down he will have no defence.
The boxer must have the mma fighter at the end of his range as he punches then use footwork to get out of range and use angels.

x2

stay away and pick at him with straight shots, when he eventually goes for the take down let him run into a right hand.

[PugilistStudent]

As a boxer, I'd kick him, because he would not be expecting that.

:rofl

[Scott Bolinger]

(I posted this in the MMA forum and got some good answers, but I thought I'd re-post it here so that I could get some more technical feedback)

Whether in a ring or in the streets, a boxer and an mma fighter are going to have different approaches, tendencies, styles, strengths and weaknesses when engaging in combat. MMA is the more varied style against strike-focused boxers, but the spreading out often allows for opportunities that skilled boxers dream of.

Within the nature of the sports themselves, distance, rhythm, defense and offense differ greatly. A mixed martial artist has various tools to deal with striking, either matching it or eliminating it by taking the fight to the ground. How would a boxer best deal with the approach of an MMA fighter? How would they control distance? What combination of head-movement, footwork, and countering would be most effective in defending and attacking a well-rounded MMA fighter? It's a bit easier to sort this out in the legal sports world- would the dynamics of this strategy change at all on the street?

It is always best if a fighter is knowingly encountering an MMA fighter to understand the fundamentals of the non-boxing elements, but if you answer I'd appreciate a boxing-focused approach.


for a boxer going against a MMA guy, he just needs to work on sprawlling and blocking the take downs, keep the fight standing.

for a MMA guy going against a boxer. Work on a lot of block and counters from the 1,2 punch. Palm block and perries, fallowed by a upper cut or hook, or round house to the thigh. You get more of a brawler, then you work more on blocking and counterstrikeing from hooks.

[mrtony80]

Don't let him take you down! Kimbo Slice is a perfect example. KImbo has got some hands, but once he goes to the ground, he's shit! Find a way to use your boxing footwork to avoid being taken down, and use everything you learned in boxing to light his ass up!

[viru§™]

for a boxer going against a MMA guy, he just needs to work on sprawlling and blocking the take downs, keep the fight standing.

for a MMA guy going against a boxer. Work on a lot of block and counters from the 1,2 punch. Palm block and perries, fallowed by a upper cut or hook, or round house to the thigh. You get more of a brawler, then you work more on blocking and counterstrikeing from hooks.

Blocking a takedown from a guy who's been practicing wrestling for years is very, very difficult. Most likely if an MMA guy grabs a boxer the boxer is fucked.

Why would an MMA guy try to out-box a pro boxer? That makes it a boxing match... MMA guy could use distance, throwing kicks and or just throw the boxer on the gound and choke him out.

Just as a funny random example of MMA vs boxing - [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[achillesthegreat]

Remember, fights start standing. A boxer will be fucked at grappling but grapplers should be fucked against a boxers footwork. It depends on execution. Boxer vs MMA wasn't so hard back in the day because they usually had core styles. MMA are progressively becoming more and more complete fighters as they evolve. Bit by bit they will reduce a boxer to a punchers chance, a Muay Thai guy to a strikers chance and so on.

Look at BJ, GSP, Silva and Machida for the evolution of the MMA. Move over to SF and look at Melendez, Diaz, Shields and Mousasi for the same. Even HW's like Fedor, Brock, Carwin etc are becoming formidable fighters and frightening in multiple aspects.

[P4P]

this is what you do
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[HENDO]

Is there anything more pathetic than a single leg take down?

If that isn't bein extremelly scared of getting hit, I don't know what is.

[paloalto00]

Blocking a takedown from a guy who's been practicing wrestling for years is very, very difficult. Most likely if an MMA guy grabs a boxer the boxer is fucked.

Why would an MMA guy try to out-box a pro boxer? That makes it a boxing match... MMA guy could use distance, throwing kicks and or just throw the boxer on the gound and choke him out.

Just as a funny random example of MMA vs boxing - [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Not a very good video considering butterbean is shit :P

[gatto]

take into account that neither opponent in this "street fight" knows of the others capabilities, [boxer, mma] a take down can be voided with an eye gouge followed by some evasive "gettin the fuck up." A boxer could duck right into a knee I read somewhere that alot of jack dempseys earlier fights where against mixed martial artists...<-?

[Terror]

Everything has its risks. If you get taken down and you're a boxer, hope that one of your friends is around to punt the motherfucker's head clear to Timbuktu or be prepared to hurt a lot. You can grab for the nuts or gouge the eyes or bite, but a dude with a decent ground game could mount you and KO you or rip your arm into two pieces. The kicking game is a good way to mess with a boxer, too. It's hard to get inside on someone when they have a good set of kicks.

Learning some rudimentary takedown defense doesn't hurt though.

[POCKET SHOT]

Everything has its risks. If you get taken down and you're a boxer, hope that one of your friends is around to punt the motherfucker's head clear to Timbuktu or be prepared to hurt a lot. You can grab for the nuts or gouge the eyes or bite, but a dude with a decent ground game could mount you and KO you or rip your arm into two pieces. The kicking game is a good way to mess with a boxer, too. It's hard to get inside on someone when they have a good set of kicks.

Learning some rudimentary takedown defense doesn't hurt though.
countering a kick with a hook or a straight is fucking titanic when done right

[achillesthegreat]

countering a kick with a hook or a straight is fucking titanic when done right

Nate the Great showed this against Maia as did Silva against someone whose name I forget.

[Terror]

That's mostly because Maia:
1. Sucks at kicking
2. Didn't have his hands up

but yeah, a straight right is a good counter for a leg kick, especially Maia's notorious hands at your sides hop in telegraph kick

[boxexpert]

use the distance,keep jabbing and uppercutting. move in circles,use side steps, never stand still.

MMA fighters are not used to run alot,so use your stamina. after eating about fifty jabs, he will automatically slow down. then it is your time to KO him or make hi quit due exhaustion.

sound easier that its done,but thats the key

[viru§™]

use the distance,keep jabbing and uppercutting. move in circles,use side steps, never stand still.

MMA fighters are not used to run alot,so use your stamina. after eating about fifty jabs, he will automatically slow down. then it is your time to KO him or make hi quit due exhaustion.

sound easier that its done,but thats the key

MMA fighters do just as much conditioning work as boxers, half of them are ex boxers/muay thai fighters.

It's simple and it's obvious, unless the boxer can knock out the guy he's going to lose.

Look at it this way -

Boxer - can punch and move, that's about it.
MMA fighter - punches, kicks, elbows, knees, takedowns, submissions.

A fight goes well towards the MMA guy winning. But as usual with these things it comes down to the individual fighter.

[Bodi]

I have been training a group of mma fighters over the lest 6 months or so, with a view to improving their punching form, and defense. One thing that they all had in common is they were wide open for punches straight down the pipe... quite alarmingly so actually. We worked on a few things here and there to improve them, but it is proving very difficult as they don't tend to see striking as their main style, so fundamentally from the stance and balance, they are flawed from a punch mechanics point of view. In addition to this, they don't appear to like slipping punches, and tend to want to rely on parrying or catching shots with their head.

Through my training and sparring with a few of them, I found great success with straight punches, varying the range a lot (2 phase attacks, feinting with feet etc). Dealing with sprawls can be difficult, but if you look hard enough you will see that a half step back and uppercut is on, most of the time.

[boxexpert]

Boxer - can punch and move, that's about it.
MMA fighter - punches, kicks, elbows, knees, takedowns, submissions.

A fight goes well towards the MMA guy winning. But as usual with these things it comes down to the individual fighter.

certainly agree, it always depends on the fighting rules. besides that,i havent seen too many MMA fighers who box really WELL.

[bald_head_slick]

I would say a boxer's first line of defense is to learn take down defense. Sprawling out/a front leg grab, and scrambling like hell back to his feet. A boxer in the guard is toast.

Boxer/Boxer Puncher? TONS of feints, jabs, and MOVEMENT. Then quick jabs and rear hand feints hoping to cause a shoot. On a half-assed shoot I would unload with lead hooks and maybe a quick straight. On a committed shoot I would uppercut/hook and push off HARD with my lead hand. Rinse-repeat.

Brawler? Swarm him while maintaining distance! Punches in bunches. Stay low, square and balanced. Too close, he grabs behind the arms and pulls you into his guard. To high he shoots. ALWAYS be ready to push him off so no leaning like in boxing. Even if you fall on him the fight is over. Go in, get off, get out, shift to his weak side, repeat.

I say all of this not taking serious kicking into account. For a boxer that range is strange. I sparred with Tae Kwan Do guys and it took a few rounds to even "see" a kick. You don't have rounds in a street fight.

[bald_head_slick]

MMA fighters do just as much conditioning work as boxers, half of them are ex boxers/muay thai fighters.

It's simple and it's obvious, unless the boxer can knock out the guy he's going to lose.

Look at it this way -

Boxer - can punch and move, that's about it.
MMA fighter - punches, kicks, elbows, knees, takedowns, submissions.

A fight goes well towards the MMA guy winning. But as usual with these things it comes down to the individual fighter.

I am so sick of that million weapons crap. Expert (hand striking) versus a jack of all trades.

Kicks higher than the waist throw you off balance. Kicks lower than the waist negate the range advantage. Elbows/knees require close range. Punches require a person being less skilled than you. Submissions can only be used AFTER the take down.

With that said 60% of the advantage is nullified just by the tools of boxing.

[bald_head_slick]

certainly agree, it always depends on the fighting rules. besides that,i havent seen too many MMA fighers who box really WELL.

Really well? How about decent? Most of those guys wind up like comic book characters.

If an MMA guy added a mean 1-2 to his arsenal he would probably KO tons of "strikers".

[southpaw jab]

Is there anything more pathetic than a single leg take down?

If that isn't bein extremelly scared of getting hit, I don't know what is.
Hendo, I have read a few of your posts now and, you don't sound like you know much about fighting. A single-leg takedown is very effective. I use it whenever I fight somebody taller and rangier than me. If two men are standing on there feet, they each can do the same things to each other, however, if I shoot for a single-leg and put you on your back, I know can do things to you, due to my position, that you can not do to me.

[southpaw jab]

Really well? How about decent? Most of those guys wind up like comic book characters.

If an MMA guy added a mean 1-2 to his arsenal he would probably KO tons of "strikers".
Than you must not watch too much MMA. Kimbo Slice, Rampage Jackson, Anderson Silva, Frank Edgar, and BJ Penn all have excellent hands. James Toney isn't too shabby, neither :)

[Bogotazo]

Wow, looking up this old thread really surprises me at the amount of technical answers given here and the recent crap being spewed after the Couture-Toney fight. I think the question is still largely unanswered, but these posts are a lot better than every other boxing/mma discussion I've seen, especially with people who have tried boxing against or teaching boxing mechanics to mma fighters.

[Son of Gaul]

It basically boils down to minimizing weaknesses and maximizing strengths. The boxer MUST have good feet but not to evade/escape. He must have good feet so that he is always in position to throw a punch with either hand. More likely than not, the grappler will be shooting in trying to sweep the boxer and this will present an extraordinary opportunity if the boxer is able to anticipate, time and place the punch properly. This is obviously much easier said than done against quality competition but it's definitely possible with structured training/sparring/experience...given that the physical tools are there.

[KillSomething]

I don't think you'd ever have a lot of success in an MMA fight or an actual fight by trying to stay on your feet and punch. It's just too easy to get taken down.

However, it's really not difficult to learn some basic throws or sprawls to counter a guy taking you down. Leg kicks are almost common sense. Not hard to throw effectively.

Learn some basic submissions and how to stay out of them/feel them setting up. You escape and get back up.

And if it's an actual fight, fight dirty. If a guy shoots on you, why not try to sprawl, then rip his eyes out? And if you end up in a guy's guard, why not destroy his testicles? A lot of MMA/BJJ guys can get drunk and forget that A. They shouldn't be fighting people, and B. The rules do not apply.

[G_Hoppa]

In a ring, never plant your feet, move constantly. Learn a sprawl. It's not that hard. Practice overhand right/straight right and uppercut timing as someone shoots in on you. Probably wouldn't hurt to practice dirty boxing/clinch work too. Learn to find and execute on every oppertunity presented to you in those situations. Unless you have alot of time to practice/learn timing, i would not advocate kicks of any kind. It is too easy too be taken down while standing on 1 leg.

On the street, i say it's 50/50. Use every last scrap of energy you have to stay on your feet, keep blasting and fight dirty. If he trys a wrestling style single or double leg takedown, punch him in the back of the head, see how effective he thinks it is then. 50/50.

[viru§™]

However, it's really not difficult to learn some basic throws or sprawls to counter a guy taking you down. Leg kicks are almost common sense. Not hard to throw effectively.

Learn some basic submissions and how to stay out of them/feel them setting up. You escape and get back up.

You say it like this is the easy part. What you're talking about takes years of practice to use effectively, it's not just learning a few things over a weekend.

[KillSomething]

You say it like this is the easy part. What you're talking about takes years of practice to use effectively, it's not just learning a few things over a weekend.

Really depends on how good the other guy is. If he's a D-1 wrestler or pro MMA fighter, he's probably kicking your ass regardless. But if he's just some dude who knows a little BJJ or thinks he's hot shit because he had a few amateur fights, it pretty much IS that easy.

Though not over a weekend. Few months should bring you up to speed.

[Windigo]

the boxer must use his footwork to avoid being taken down

That doesn't work. Boxing footwork has nothing to do with avoiding a takedown. Learn how to sprawl.

The boxer must have the mma fighter at the end of his range as he punches then use footwork to get out of range and use angels.

Again the MMA fighter has the longer range. His leg kicks will tear the boxer up outside of the boxers range and the range of his takedowns is ridiculous. Someone with a good wrestling background can take a shot from all the way across the mat. Learn how to sprawl.

In short if you aren't good at sprawling you will get beat far more than you will win.

Oh and as a testament to Toney learn what to do when someone has you mounted. He was clueless. Scoot scoot scoot. The funny thing was that the next fight one of the guys escaped from a full mount perfectly without even being tagged.

[badr_hari]

boxer vs MMA fighter in boxing rules? The boxer takes it and The MMA fighter has NO CHANCE

boxer vs MMA fighter in mma rules? The MMA fighter takes it, BUT the boxer has ONE CHANCE (if the other dude is not a good grappler and wants to stand up a lil bit will get wrecked by the Tremendous Speed and Accuracy of Boxer's punches)

in a street fight (bar fight) i would take my friend (a Krav Maga Teacher) above both the boxer and MMA fighter. Huh, in NO rules fights with your life in danger you never know what will happen

off topic: I like and RESPECT unique Martial Arts and Martial Artists (Boxing, Muay thai, San Da, Wrestling, Judo, BJJ) MORE than MMA because a Boxer, or a Nak Muay, or a wrestler or a judokan IS MASTER at what he does, while the MMA fighters are MEDIOCRE or POOR at what they do. The Human being is created that way so There won't be an ALL ROUNDED MMA fighter who can BOX better than Ali, WRESTLE better than Karelin, KICK better than Buakaw, KNEE better than Diesel Noi etc etc

[viru§™]

boxer vs MMA fighter in boxing rules? The boxer takes it and The MMA fighter has NO CHANCE



Not true at all. Why does a boxer have a chance in an MMA fight but an MMA fighter have no chance in a boxing match? No sense. Some MMA fighters are ex professional boxers, they always have a puncher's chance.

I agree with the Krav Maga comment, those guys are fucking lethal!

[Youngblood]

As I said in the other thread "A boxer must use his range and timing to sharpshoot and potshot big shots. The sooner he closes the show, the better."

^^ this

close off range for take down quickly, finish fast.

an example:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Onepunch]

take into account that neither opponent in this "street fight" knows of the others capabilities, [boxer, mma] a take down can be voided with an eye gouge followed by some evasive "gettin the fuck up." A boxer could duck right into a knee I read somewhere that alot of jack dempseys earlier fights where against mixed martial artists...<-?

It really bothers me when people whack out the old cliche 'eye gouge' or the famous 'kick to the nutsack'.. Do you think the MMA guy is incapable of doing that also?

also.. eye gouge against takedown? really?.. You know you'd still be on the floor, under a guy who knows how to wrestle right?

The correct answer in this situation ladies and gentlemen is to learn some fucking jits.. you WILL get taken down if you don't finish the fight in seconds.

[viru§™]

you WILL get taken down if you don't finish the fight in seconds.

This. The whole "time an uppercut or hook when they come in for a takedown" isn't going to happen, with an experienced fighter you won't see the shoot coming.

You'd have to be a fucking idiot (good example, Tim Sylvia) to stand and exchance with a boxer. Would be like a boxer agreeing to a wrestling match with Randy Couture, just idiotic.

[ElGalloNegro]

As a boxer, I'd kick him, because he would not be expecting that.

:cool: That's a good one.

[ElGalloNegro]

I have been training a group of mma fighters over the lest 6 months or so, with a view to improving their punching form, and defense. One thing that they all had in common is they were wide open for punches straight down the pipe... quite alarmingly so actually. We worked on a few things here and there to improve them, but it is proving very difficult as they don't tend to see striking as their main style, so fundamentally from the stance and balance, they are flawed from a punch mechanics point of view. In addition to this, they don't appear to like slipping punches, and tend to want to rely on parrying or catching shots with their head.

Through my training and sparring with a few of them, I found great success with straight punches, varying the range a lot (2 phase attacks, feinting with feet etc). Dealing with sprawls can be difficult, but if you look hard enough you will see that a half step back and uppercut is on, most of the time.

This is good info. thanks for sharing.

[ElGalloNegro]

off topic: I like and RESPECT unique Martial Arts and Martial Artists (Boxing, Muay thai, San Da, Wrestling, Judo, BJJ) MORE than MMA because a Boxer, or a Nak Muay, or a wrestler or a judokan IS MASTER at what he does, while the MMA fighters are MEDIOCRE or POOR at what they do. The Human being is created that way so There won't be an ALL ROUNDED MMA fighter who can BOX better than Ali, WRESTLE better than Karelin, KICK better than Buakaw, KNEE better than Diesel Noi etc etc[/quote]

My coach is of the same opinion as well.

[viru§™]

while the MMA fighters are MEDIOCRE or POOR at what they do.

MMA fighters are very versatile. Depending on the fighter they usually have a background in something they are very good at. Example - Randy Couture - Olympic level wrestler. The 3 parts to a fighter are standing (boxing, kickboxing etc), takedown and ground game. Good fighters always have a high level past in one or more of these parts. To say they are mediocre or crap at everything is very ignorant.

[Windigo]

This. The whole "time an uppercut or hook when they come in for a takedown" isn't going to happen, with an experienced fighter you won't see the shoot coming.

Agreed, very ridiculous claims that you can time up shots etc. Sure it can happen but the smart money is in sprawling and then countering. Chick Liddell made quite a career out of it.

[badr_hari]

MMA fighters are very versatile. Depending on the fighter they usually have a background in something they are very good at. Example - Randy Couture - Olympic level wrestler. The 3 parts to a fighter are standing (boxing, kickboxing etc), takedown and ground game. Good fighters always have a high level past in one or more of these parts. To say they are mediocre or crap at everything is very ignorant.

they are not versatile and you just proved it by saying "That they are VERY GOOD at ONE THING"

Randy Couture - Olympic level wrestler? yeah, in 1992. Lol that is like Tyson starting an MMA career today and saying he IS HIGHT LEVEL BOXER.

A SOMETIME WAS GOOD in wrestling, with LITTLE BJJ, CRAP boxing, CRAP muay thai = POOR at MOST

i just can't see fighters with LITTLE boxing knock out people with ZERO boxing, or people with LITTLE wrestling take down people with ZERO wrestling. I want MASTERS fighting each other. and Those MASTERS does not exist in MMA

[viru§™]

they are not versatile and you just proved it by saying "That they are VERY GOOD at ONE THING"

Randy Couture - Olympic level wrestler? yeah, in 1992. Lol that is like Tyson starting an MMA career today and saying he IS HIGHT LEVEL BOXER.

A SOMETIME WAS GOOD in wrestling, with LITTLE BJJ, CRAP boxing, CRAP muay thai = POOR at MOST

i just can't see fighters with LITTLE boxing knock out people with ZERO boxing, or people with LITTLE wrestling take down people with ZERO wrestling. I want MASTERS fighting each other. and Those MASTERS does not exist in MMA

It doesn't take a master of anything to win a fight. Put the best boxer in the world against a decent MMA fighter and most likely the MMA fighter will win because they're more versatile than a boxer.

Being a master of one thing is like taking a knife to a gun fight. When people prefer to stand in an MMA match they are known as strikers, that isn't a claim that they're amazing boxers, just they are MMA fighters with some striking ability.

Why you are getting so upset I don't know. It's like you see MMA as some insult to boxing.

[bald_head_slick]

Depends on the MMA fighter. As a boxer?

-- Understanding of a sprawl
-- Lateral movement
-- A mean uppercut
-- Ability to close quickly, deliver damage, and get the hell away again
-- Good balance to keep a clinch high and push off to create space
-- A mindset that realized that the "shoot" can and will happen

It is an interesting question. I would either use pin point punching or damaging flurries. Honestly, unless he knows what he is getting into early? I don't think a Boxer has much chance not due to the quality of his heart or his art, but due to the holes in it. Same way pure collegiate wrestlers were owned in MMA in the beginning. BJJ dudes just waited them out from the bottom because they didn't have "fight ending" experience.

As a guy who started in BJJ and moved to boxing, I am not sure why boxers take it so personal.

[ElGalloNegro]

Watch the movie Undisputed III: Redemption to see a boxer defend and win against a kickboxer.

There was no ground game in that scene.

[Windigo]

I think a lot of us have to realize that old school MMA is dead the unified rules are bullshit and give the wrestlers an invisible force-field through which they cannot be touched as they take their shot.

Its very simple. Under the unified rules no strikes are allowed from a standing position on a grounded fighter. So all the wrestlers has to do is go to a knee as they take a shot and they cannot be touched. Couture for example abuses the fuck out of this rule. So thinking that you are going to counter their shots with strikes is a worthless strategy as it is largely illegal.

[TheBradyHawkes]

^^ this

close off range for take down quickly, finish fast.

an example:

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

WTF was that? :rofl Looks like the shirtless fella paid some fat kid to take a beating.

[libtolu]

Than you must not watch too much MMA. Kimbo Slice, Rampage Jackson, Anderson Silva, Frank Edgar, and BJ Penn all have excellent hands. James Toney isn't too shabby, neither :)

You must not watch a lot of boxing because it doesn't compare.

And kimbos hands are shit even for mma.

[viru§™]

You must not watch a lot of boxing because it doesn't compare.

And kimbos hands are shit even for mma.

Nobody said it does compare. Being able to punch and being able to box are 2 different things.

[vonLPC]

It is always best if a fighter is knowingly encountering an MMA fighter to understand the fundamentals of the non-boxing elements, but if you answer I'd appreciate a boxing-focused approach.[/quote]

Assuming the MMA fighter means a ground guy:

MMA/defensive wrestling Strategies
1)Bring stance down, decreasing the distance between you arms and hips to use underhooks.
2)square your stance. This makes your hips less accessible.
3)Disalign the neck, making finishing the takedown close to impossible.
4)Push on the head.

Boxing strategies
1)Put your punches lower-making it harder to shoot the takedown under the shots cleanly.
2) Don't remain stagnate with footwork.
3) Don't shoulder roll
4) Uppercuts
5) We have a rule for our MMA guys that want to stay up(2 seconds in an exchange and get out). Anything longer is too long and gives MMA fighter a chance to work for high tie ups.
6) Be aggressive and throw punches straight.

In all honesty, a boxer stands little chance in a fight with multiple rules. It's like an NFL team having an excellent run game, poor special teams, lousy pass defense, can't stop the run, and no passing game. How many games would they win if they did just one facet of the game well?

[vonLPC]

Really depends on how good the other guy is. If he's a D-1 wrestler or pro MMA fighter, he's probably kicking your ass regardless. But if he's just some dude who knows a little BJJ or thinks he's hot shit because he had a few amateur fights, it pretty much IS that easy.

Though not over a weekend. Few months should bring you up to speed.

I agree with that completely.

Defensive BJJ-Triangle, arm bar, guillotine choke defense, get guard/stand up.

Defensive wrestling basics-digging underhooks, heavy hips on sprawls, wizzer.

Stance-change to a hybrid of boxing/wrestling

[Jared]

Fuck running away from them, All MMA fighters have glass chins, thye're the ones who fight scared. You just need to be evade a take down long enough to land a single solid shot. Put any decent boxer with fast hands in with the best MMA can offer and it'll be a repeat of Mercer - Sylvia

[vonLPC]

Fuck running away from them, All MMA fighters have glass chins, thye're the ones who fight scared. You just need to be evade a take down long enough to land a single solid shot. Put any decent boxer with fast hands in with the best MMA can offer and it'll be a repeat of Mercer - Sylvia

For anyone who has ever tried to punch against an MMA guy who knows his basic singles/doubles/high ties that is a very hard task. Given the head position of those who shoot for take downs and the proficiency they can change levels, it is very hard to land anything at all. As for Mercer/Sylvia, Sylvia has never taken anybody down and always tries to keep a fight standing. Any MMA fighter who does this will get KOd by fighters such as Mercer. Sylvia should have thrown a few punches just like Kimbo did against Mercer, then immediately hug him and worked from there.

[viru§™]

Fuck running away from them, All MMA fighters have glass chins,

You're obviously upset over something and throwing out random silly insults but if you honestly believe this then you're an idiot.

thye're the ones who fight scared.Explain.

You just need to be evade a take down long enough to land a single solid shot.Ahhhh it's that easy. If it's as simple as that why aren't boxers joining up to the UFC and dominating?

Put any decent boxer with fast hands in with the best MMA can offer and it'll be a repeat of Mercer - SylviaIf an MMA fighter strikes with a boxer using just hands, maybe. An MMA fighter that has a clue would use kicks and go in for a takedown vs a boxer. Sylvia is a complete idiot and a shit fighter.

Overall I think you need to rethink what you're saying because your entire post was complete bullshit.

[Nipple]

Just don't fight him.

I mean as a boxer you are VERY one dimensional, and the takedown has a MUCH higher chance of landing than a ko blow does (sorry, fact).

Take away a boxers hands and it's going to be a long night for the boxer i'm afraid....

Awesome, and i mean AWESOME footwork *could* be benefical, but you would have to be super quick and VERY powerful with your shots.

Other than that, i see no way of really winning, unless you land a lottery punch.

[Onepunch]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

You literally can't win about 90% of the time or more if you are a boxer vs an mma fighter.

I love boxing, It is my favourite of the sports I do. But I still train wrestling, Judo and occasionally BJJ because being well rounded is just as important as being good at one thing.

[paloalto00]

Just don't fight him.

I mean as a boxer you are VERY one dimensional, and the takedown has a MUCH higher chance of landing than a ko blow does (sorry, fact).

Take away a boxers hands and it's going to be a long night for the boxer i'm afraid....

Awesome, and i mean AWESOME footwork *could* be benefical, but you would have to be super quick and VERY powerful with your shots.

Other than that, i see no way of really winning, unless you land a lottery punch.

You don't need to land a 1 punch Ko, just keep yoru distance. I also wrestle and can tell you that learning boxing is very much more difficult than learning how to wrestle

[Bogotazo]

You don't need to land a 1 punch Ko, just keep yoru distance. I also wrestle and can tell you that learning boxing is very much more difficult than learning how to wrestle

Examples where people study both forms, like this one and the other post were an instructor pointed out the weaknesses in the punching of an mma fighter, show that it's not out of this world for a boxer to maneuver against someone who can wrestle.

[Nipple]

You don't need to land a 1 punch Ko, just keep yoru distance. I also wrestle and can tell you that learning boxing is very much more difficult than learning how to wrestle

I agree. ;)

I train in boxing, judo and have dabbled in bjj. Yet if you don't land GOOD blows, then you're fucked basically.

What will you do with your distance though?

You HAVE TO get in range to punch, and the chances of you being taken down are HIGH.

You should know this if you train in other combat sports that aren't called boxing.... :D

[paloalto00]

I agree. ;)

I train in boxing, judo and have dabbled in bjj. Yet if you don't land GOOD blows, then you're fucked basically.

What will you do with your distance though?

You HAVE TO get in range to punch, and the chances of you being taken down are HIGH.

You should know this if you train in other combat sports that aren't called boxing.... :D

There are ways of keeping your distance but getting into YOUR range, it's all about control. Look at Martinez, he keeps just far enough to avoid but takes a half step in and he's hitting you.

Wrestling takedowns are very secure, but in wrestling you're not always on your toes, you do stand in front of eachother trying to gain control. I've only done wrestling for 1 year, but I got 3rd in in regionals which is pretty good for a first timer.

[floyd1982]

MMA fighter is too loose of a term for designing a good gameplan. What is the MMA fighter's strengths? What are his weakness? He can be a great wrestler or a crap wrestler with great kicks. I assume you are talking about someone wanting to take the fight to the ground so I will give my two cents about that first:

You have to move and punch on the fly. Planting your feet to land that power shot is going to get you put on the ground hard. Percentages are against you trying to land a big KO blow before getting taken down. There is a plethora of examples of boxers/kickboxers being taken down before landing a standing KO: Art Jimmerson, Ray Mercer/Kimbo, Ramon Dekker/Genki Sudo, pretty much any striker vs Randy or Tito in their primes etc. It just isn't a good idea to sit on those power punches.

Anytime you see a level change, GET OUT! Level changes mean shots are coming or that he is going to fake the shot and come over top with a haymaker. Pop out the jab while you are retreating, you have a better chance winning the lottery than KOing the dude. Plus, a solid punch doesn't equal a KO so you may hurt him but you are now in foreign territory. Learning to sprawl is a good idea but there are sooo many other options to take you down that the sprawl doesn't do shit for. Level changes can set up singles, doubles, low singles, high crotches, and body locks.

The other thing to keep in mind is if you are keeping your distance and avoiding the shot, you are at optimal range to get your legs kicked off or your head kicked in. Head kicks are not easy to see coming if you don't have experience and a solid leg kick to someone not trained to take them can end the fight. A strict boxer will have a hard time with a well rounded MMA fighter and it is just that simple.

[paloalto00]

Ok, so I sparred against a MMA fighter yesterday and actually I was pretty successful. Ok, so first thing was he was mostly muay thai and BJJ based. So first thing was his punches were very short as compared to mine and he found his range using the front kick rather than a jab. My footwork was key, side to side movement stopped him from throwing his kicks and when he did throw them I was able to move in close enough to throw my punches.

Ok now as far as the take downs, there wasn't anything special about it. In BJJ it's mostly about crowding as far as anything, so range was a HUGE factor in that. He did grab ahold of me, but I kept cool and did a hard pivot which actually worked and pretty much got me through everything.

Now idk if this would work on every fighter, but he had the basic 2 mma styles so who knows.

[viru§™]

Ok, so I sparred against a MMA fighter yesterday and actually I was pretty successful. Ok, so first thing was he was mostly muay thai and BJJ based. So first thing was his punches were very short as compared to mine and he found his range using the front kick rather than a jab. My footwork was key, side to side movement stopped him from throwing his kicks and when he did throw them I was able to move in close enough to throw my punches.

Ok now as far as the take downs, there wasn't anything special about it. In BJJ it's mostly about crowding as far as anything, so range was a HUGE factor in that. He did grab ahold of me, but I kept cool and did a hard pivot which actually worked and pretty much got me through everything.

Now idk if this would work on every fighter, but he had the basic 2 mma styles so who knows.

The guy allowed you to use your strengths (boxing) against him by not taking you down. This means one of 3 things, he was trying to prove something (he thinks he has good hands or whatever), he sucks at MMA or he just wasn't really trying.

Any decent fighter would try to remove his opponents strong points. A boxer on the floor or in a clinch is fucked vs an MMA fighter that has a clue. A boxer only really has a chance if the MMA fighter decides he wants to try and prove something and stand with a boxer, these guys are idiots, aka Tim Sylvia.

[Onepunch]

a boxer only really has a chance if the mma fighter decides he wants to try and prove something and stand with a boxer, these guys are idiots, aka tim sylvia.

^this.

[floyd1982]

The guy allowed you to use your strengths (boxing) against him by not taking you down. This means one of 3 things, he was trying to prove something (he thinks he has good hands or whatever), he sucks at MMA or he just wasn't really trying.

Or it could have been that he was just trying to get better with his striking. Perhaps he isn't that good of a striker and used the sparring time as a way to improve something while not trying to prove anything.

It has already been shown that in a fight, boxers have a puncher's chance. Best way to fight the dude is to either: not fight him or have some friends that will grab you guys and make you stand back up.

[paloalto00]

The guy allowed you to use your strengths (boxing) against him by not taking you down. This means one of 3 things, he was trying to prove something (he thinks he has good hands or whatever), he sucks at MMA or he just wasn't really trying.

Any decent fighter would try to remove his opponents strong points. A boxer on the floor or in a clinch is fucked vs an MMA fighter that has a clue. A boxer only really has a chance if the MMA fighter decides he wants to try and prove something and stand with a boxer, these guys are idiots, aka Tim Sylvia.

Lol for some reason people automatically assume a fight is getting to the ground, a boxer is not going to just let you take him down. I have wrestling experience so I know a thing or two but even then that's my last option

[viru§™]

Lol for some reason people automatically assume a fight is getting to the ground, a boxer is not going to just let you take him down. I have wrestling experience so I know a thing or two but even then that's my last option

It doesn't even have to go straight to the ground, if an MMA fighter grabs you at all he isn't letting go. It's a matter of time before it goes to the ground vs a decent MMA fighter, then it's over.

[paloalto00]

It doesn't even have to go straight to the ground, if an MMA fighter grabs you at all he isn't letting go. It's a matter of time before it goes to the ground vs a decent MMA fighter, then it's over.

Because I'm just going to let them grab me without landing bombs? After sparring the other day I could tell you that this mma bullshit is overrated

[viru§™]

Because I'm just going to let them grab me without landing bombs?

You won't exactly allow them to grab you but it'll happen. To hit someone you have to be close to your opponent. To land a "bomb" as you put it you have to plant your feet, you'll be standing still for a second or more and you'll most likely be off balance. You better hope you land that punch perfectly as if you don't you're going to the ground. But then again if you keep throwing "bombs" you'll gas and be an even easier target to take down. There's many fighters that will happily take the chance of taking a solid punch to put you on the ground. Tony was going on and on about how he was going to land bombs, he didn't even throw a single punch before he was on his arse.

After sparring the other day I could tell you that this mma bullshit is overratedReally? So you spar some nobody at your gym and you can say boxing is superior to MMA? Haha. You keep thinking that :good Thats like saying a 6 inch blade is superior to a swiss army knife, just not true.

[Onepunch]

LOL.. just LOL

[Bogotazo]

If a boxer can snap his punches throwing and pulling back and move in and out maintaining range, I don't see what the problem is with scoring against someone open waiting to try and grab you. Nobody said it was an easy stylistic challenge, but clearly Paloalto has actually tried it to some extent and makes some valid points.

[viru§™]

If a boxer can snap his punches throwing and pulling back and move in and out maintaining range, I don't see what the problem is with scoring against someone open waiting to try and grab you. Nobody said it was an easy stylistic challenge, but clearly Paloalto has actually tried it to some extent and makes some valid points.

Who said they would wait to grab you? Like I've said a few times once an MMA fighter has a hold of you you as a boxer are fucked. Have you ever seen any fight where a guy has stepped into punching range of his opponent, punched him and back away consistantly without ever getting punched back or ending up in a clinch? I know I haven't. Vs an MMA guy he'll either punch back or instead of punch you he'll grab you. Every time you step in range to throw a punch you're at risk of being grabbed, hell a decent MMA fighter can shoot from 6 feet away and still get you down. The idea of just boxing vs MMA just does not work, it's been proven since the beginning of UFC.

Can somebody answer this for me... If boxing is so effective vs MMA why are there no pure professional boxers in the UFC or any other MMA orginisation?

[GreatWhiteHype]

This fight was last month, for those that missed it. James Toney, who should need no introduction on this board, vs Randy Couture, a former UFC champion who is primarily a wrestler.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

James Toney is a better boxer than anyone on this board. He was on his back in less than 15 seconds and wasn't able to get off a single punch. If only he'd have trained with some of you guys, he would've known that all he had to do was keep his distance and land some bombs. :roll:

[Onepunch]

Thankyou.. [/thread]

[viru§™]

This fight was last month, for those that missed it. James Toney, who should need no introduction on this board, vs Randy Couture, a former UFC champion who is primarily a wrestler.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

James Toney is a better boxer than anyone on this board. He was on his back in less than 15 seconds and wasn't able to get off a single punch. If only he'd have trained with some of you guys, he would've known that all he had to do was keep his distance and land some bombs. :roll:

Just get ready for excuses, he's too old, he sucks, he just done it for the money etc etc

[floyd1982]

If a boxer can snap his punches throwing and pulling back and move in and out maintaining range, I don't see what the problem is with scoring against someone open waiting to try and grab you. Nobody said it was an easy stylistic challenge, but clearly Paloalto has actually tried it to some extent and makes some valid points.
The thing is, Paloalto didn't say that the dude was trying to take him down, he was just trying to kick him. The MMA guy isn't going to stand stationary like Zangief off Street Fighter. He is going to be throwing punches as well, moving, kicking, and changing levels.

How many boxing matches have you watched where neither fighter ever clinched? It is inevitable. There are just too many tools at the MMA guys disposal. Best bet is to ride that bicycle until the wheels fall off.

[floyd1982]

Just get ready for excuses, he's too old, he sucks, he just done it for the money etc etc
Yep. However, Randy was older :p

[viru§™]

Yep. However, Randy was older :p

You ruined my comeback to that excuse! Haha.

[viru§™]

I just don't get what I'm missing in this, I'm going by basic logic as to who would win. The overwhelming odds go to MMA as the skillset is MUCH larger than a boxer's. I'm not saying a boxer stands no chance in an MMA fight, of course he does, but 90% or maybe even more of the time he isn't going to win.

[Mr. V.I.P.]

All a boxer has to do is punch. They will land first because they are quicker with 1000x better technique and a helluva lot more power than any ufc hugger.

[Sprawla]

a boxers best chance is to train mma to beat a mma fighter

[boxer13]

in a street fight its irrelevant and I really do think a boxer would win, besides having a good advantage standing even if it gets to the ground all that mma stuff doesn't really work BECAUSE there are no rules. if someone is trying to choke you out or break your arm just do small joint manipulation and pull their finger and break it backwards or gouge their eyes or fish hook their mouth if they are on top of you pounding on you. thats my theory at least.

[paloalto00]

This fight was last month, for those that missed it. James Toney, who should need no introduction on this board, vs Randy Couture, a former UFC champion who is primarily a wrestler.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

James Toney is a better boxer than anyone on this board. He was on his back in less than 15 seconds and wasn't able to get off a single punch. If only he'd have trained with some of you guys, he would've known that all he had to do was keep his distance and land some bombs. :roll:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Onepunch]

in a street fight its irrelevant and I really do think a boxer would win, besides having a good advantage standing even if it gets to the ground all that mma stuff doesn't really work BECAUSE there are no rules. if someone is trying to choke you out or break your arm just do small joint manipulation and pull their finger and break it backwards or gouge their eyes or fish hook their mouth if they are on top of you pounding on you. thats my theory at least.

you know the MMA guy can do that too right?

Whatchya gonna do when he's sitting on top of you and decides to fish hook YOU or break YOUR fingers.

I don't get why people are arguing this, if you wanna be able to handle it then go do some grappling on the side.

[viru§™]

in a street fight its irrelevant and I really do think a boxer would win, besides having a good advantage standing even if it gets to the ground all that mma stuff doesn't really work BECAUSE there are no rules.

You mean the rules that an MMA fighter has to let go when you tap, breaks a limb or chokes you unconscious? Ohhhh, these rules DON'T apply, okay. So an MMA fighter has his ground game skill set plus the fact he can do anything else he wants to you including what you said. The rules don't make MMA, the rules RESTRICT what you can do in MMA. So how the fuck does that go in favor of a boxer?

if someone is trying to choke you out or break your arm just do small joint manipulation and pull their finger and break it backwards or gouge their eyes or fish hook their mouth if they are on top of you pounding on you. thats my theory at least.Your theory is completely wrong for 90% of the situation.

If I grabbed you in a rear naked choke you'd have 3-5 seconds before you're out. You'd be shitting yourself that much over the fact you can't breath and your body is shutting down you won't have the brain power to grab and break a finger, you'd just try to remove the thing crushing your neck (my arm). Unless you have been put in this situation and trained over and over and over what to do and how to stay calm you can't do anything to get out of this.

My bro was saying silly things like this a few days ago, I said okay, I'll put you in a rear naked choke and you do what you want to get away. I grabbed him and applied a rear naked choke. He grabbed my arm and tried to pull, the natural reaction in this situation which ANYONE that hasn't trained in this situation would do, this lasted for 3 seconds before he nearly passed out and I let go.

You can say "In this situation I'd do blah blah blah" I love listening to friends telling me what they'd do if somebody pulled a knife on them or a 3 vs 1 fight, but unless you put yourself in a situation and train over and over you have no idea how you'd react.

[unsigned_userv2]

You mean the rules that an MMA fighter has to let go when you tap, breaks a limb or chokes you unconscious? Ohhhh, these rules DON'T apply, okay. So an MMA fighter has his ground game skill set plus the fact he can do anything else he wants to you including what you said. The rules don't make MMA, the rules RESTRICT what you can do in MMA. So how the fuck does that go in favor of a boxer?

Your theory is completely wrong for 90% of the situation.

If I grabbed you in a rear naked choke you'd have 3-5 seconds before you're out. You'd be shitting yourself that much over the fact you can't breath and your body is shutting down you won't have the brain power to grab and break a finger, you'd just try to remove the thing crushing your neck (my arm). Unless you have been put in this situation and trained over and over and over what to do and how to stay calm you can't do anything to get out of this.

My bro was saying silly things like this a few days ago, I said okay, I'll put you in a rear naked choke and you do what you want to get away. I grabbed him and applied a rear naked choke. He grabbed my arm and tried to pull, the natural reaction in this situation which ANYONE that hasn't trained in this situation would do, this lasted for 3 seconds before he nearly passed out and I let go.

You can say "In this situation I'd do blah blah blah" I love listening to friends telling me what they'd do if somebody pulled a knife on them or a 3 vs 1 fight, but unless you put yourself in a situation and train over and over you have no idea how you'd react.


I think his point may have been, MMA fighters, just like boxers do not condition themselves for these illegal moves. Tradtional BJJ has alot of moves not allowed in MMA, so why would a MMA fighter waste time training for them? However an MMA fighter would be in a better position than a boxer.

And you are right about it's just as much training your mind so you can respond in the situation. You can be the most skilled person, but if it isn't second nature you probably won't use it.

[unsigned_userv2]

(I posted this in the MMA forum and got some good answers, but I thought I'd re-post it here so that I could get some more technical feedback)

Whether in a ring or in the streets, a boxer and an mma fighter are going to have different approaches, tendencies, styles, strengths and weaknesses when engaging in combat. MMA is the more varied style against strike-focused boxers, but the spreading out often allows for opportunities that skilled boxers dream of.

Within the nature of the sports themselves, distance, rhythm, defense and offense differ greatly. A mixed martial artist has various tools to deal with striking, either matching it or eliminating it by taking the fight to the ground. How would a boxer best deal with the approach of an MMA fighter? How would they control distance? What combination of head-movement, footwork, and countering would be most effective in defending and attacking a well-rounded MMA fighter? It's a bit easier to sort this out in the legal sports world- would the dynamics of this strategy change at all on the street?

It is always best if a fighter is knowingly encountering an MMA fighter to understand the fundamentals of the non-boxing elements, but if you answer I'd appreciate a boxing-focused approach.

Priority 1 -
You must learn to sprawl and become highly efficient at avoiding takedowns. If the MMA fighter continues to be unsuccesful at take downs, they will become more reluctant to use it. This is not an easy skill to learn, but this is priority number 1 to anyone who wants to stand up and fight. This is also covered in priority 2, but a boxer must learn to shift their balance once they are grabbed, or they are caught in a clinch. Keep the body close to theirs to avoid knees and push off during the next opportunity.


Priority 2 -
Adjust balance and distance. Boxer will need to adjust stance to square up a bit more and shift the balance by positioning the lead leg from out in front to closer to the body. This will help them fall back into a sprawl should any takedowns come in and will help them check any low kicks which will come in. The longest range weapon is no longer the jab. If the boxer is within kicking range they must not circle to their left (or vice versa for an unthordox opponent) or they risk getting their legs kicked off.


Strategy -
The jab is key: double and triple up the lead hand primarily to the chest, alternating to the head when guard slips low. MMA offensive styles emphasis moving forward in a straight line than setting up angles, so a straight right will be the money shot. Hooks may work to counter punches, but I wouldn't rely on it as I doubt an MMA fighter will try and outpunch a boxer. I would not rely on an uppercut either to avoid a takedown - very difficult to land on someone closing low and fast for a takedown.

[Sprawla]

in a street fight its irrelevant and I really do think a boxer would win, besides having a good advantage standing even if it gets to the ground all that mma stuff doesn't really work BECAUSE there are no rules. if someone is trying to choke you out or break your arm just do small joint manipulation and pull their finger and break it backwards or gouge their eyes or fish hook their mouth if they are on top of you pounding on you. thats my theory at least.


you have obviously never grappled, if a mma fighter gets a boxer on the ground he wont even be able to move his arms, he will trap his arms and pound the shit out of him. How will the boxer fish hook if he cant move his arms.
i took up boxing first, done that for 5 years and started mma now 1 year ago. if the boxer can stay at range and hit a mma guy then he wins but if he makes one mistake and the mma guy grabs him and takes him down, the boxer is fucked. My strength is striking in mma and let me tell you i still have trouble with good wrestlers.

[paloalto00]

you have obviously never grappled, if a mma fighter gets a boxer on the ground he wont even be able to move his arms, he will trap his arms and pound the shit out of him. How will the boxer fish hook if he cant move his arms.
i took up boxing first, done that for 5 years and started mma now 1 year ago. if the boxer can stay at range and hit a mma guy then he wins but if he makes one mistake and the mma guy grabs him and takes him down, the boxer is fucked. My strength is striking in mma and let me tell you i still have trouble with good wrestlers.

Really? I was doing some ground work with the guy and had no problem with my arms. Also he informed me that you can no longer elbow at a 12-6 motion, which would cause ALOT of damage to an opponent trying to get into your guard

[GreatWhiteHype]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I'm lost here. Your response is a video of a guy three years into his professional MMA career winning by knockout? Do you think the fight would have turned out the same way if he didn't have 4+ years of jiu-jitsu training before that fight?

At some point he stopped being a boxer and became an MMA fighter.

[paloalto00]

I'm lost here. Your response is a video of a guy three years into his professional MMA career winning by knockout? Do you think the fight would have turned out the same way if he didn't have 4+ years of jiu-jitsu training before that fight?

At some point he stopped being a boxer and became an MMA fighter.

How do you figure he has 4+ years of jiu-jitsu experience? He was fighting in MMA after only 1 year of his last boxing match before retiring for the first time.

[KillSomething]

I think y'all are going into this with the wrong mindset. You're thinking in terms of the boxer having to avoid the strengths of the MMA fighter rather than the MMA fighter having to avoid the strengths of the boxer. This style of thought cedes the initiative to the MMA fighter. If you go in with this sort of thinking, you will definitely lose.

He should be afraid of your punching and ability to avoid strikes and then generate offense. He should be perplexed by your ability to appear on one side of him and then appear at the other, hitting him before he can adjust. He should be surprised by the power of your punches and your strength in the clinch.

To beat an MMA fighter at his own game, you almost have to move forward and press the offense. He may take you down once, twice, multiple times. When he does, you need to scramble and get back up. Tie him up down there if you have to.

But by moving forward and punching, you force him to react to you. You close the distance so his kicks aren't as potent, and god help him if he tries to punch you. You limit his game to the takedown, and when you've done this you'll know what he's going to try to do, which is the first step toward stopping him.

But you should try your best to make HIM think about stopping YOU, rather than vice versa. You have to give him something to worry about. You have to disrupt his game. This whole running away from him and 'maintaining distance' won't work. It's a defensive strategy and it allows him to think and plan how to impose his will on you. Your job is to make him too busy trying to stop you from imposing your will on him.

And don't forget that you can leg kick him, elbow him in the clinch, knee him, etc. Just because he's better than you at something doesn't mean you can't do it to him too.

As a boxer, you'd be at a decided disadvantage. But not quite as bad as many people think. You have to attack though, or you'll be beaten badly.

[viru§™]

I think y'all are going into this with the wrong mindset. You're thinking in terms of the boxer having to avoid the strengths of the MMA fighter rather than the MMA fighter having to avoid the strengths of the boxer. This style of thought cedes the initiative to the MMA fighter. If you go in with this sort of thinking, you will definitely lose.

A boxer has to avoid the takedown, the main thing an MMA fighter should do is take down a boxer and you just make it easier by moving in and attempting to punch the guy.

He should be afraid of your punching and ability to avoid strikes and then generate offense. He should be perplexed by your ability to appear on one side of him and then appear at the other, hitting him before he can adjust.

MMA fighters RESPECT a boxer's punching ability, they're never scared or afraid of punches or kicks or whatever. An MMA fighter should be perplexed by the way you can move? Lol.

He should be surprised by the power of your punches and your strength in the clinch.

Have you followed this thread at all? You clinch as a boxer vs an MMA fighter and you most certainly are fucked cause he ain't letting go. Elbows, knees, takedown, you're done.

To beat an MMA fighter at his own game, you almost have to move forward and press the offense. He may take you down once, twice, multiple times. When he does, you need to scramble and get back up. Tie him up down there if you have to.

You press the offence you open yourself hugely to a takedown. I like the way guys in this thread say "just get back up if you're taken down" Try this, lie flat on the floor, get someone to lie across your chest and tell them to punch you in the face as hard as they want as you try to stand up. It isn't fucking easy. And I would love to know how you'd "tie him up" without getting hit and burning a lot of energy doing so.

But by moving forward and punching, you force him to react to you.

Yeah. He'll pick you up and drop you on your head...

You close the distance so his kicks aren't as potent, and god help him if he tries to punch you.

Maybe the kicks aren't but his knees, elbows and punches are.

You limit his game to the takedown, and when you've done this you'll know what he's going to try to do, which is the first step toward stopping him.

It's obvious a decent fighter is going to take you down seeing as you can only punch and you can't do that off the ground...

But you should try your best to make HIM think about stopping YOU, rather than vice versa. You have to give him something to worry about. You have to disrupt his game. This whole running away from him and 'maintaining distance' won't work. It's a defensive strategy and it allows him to think and plan how to impose his will on you. Your job is to make him too busy trying to stop you from imposing your will on him.

You're going to do this from your back?

And don't forget that you can leg kick him, elbow him in the clinch, knee him, etc. Just because he's better than you at something doesn't mean you can't do it to him too.

MMA fighters are used to leg kicks. Kick him, he'll kick you back harder.

As a boxer, you'd be at a decided disadvantage. But not quite as bad as many people think. You have to attack though, or you'll be beaten badly.

Overall attacking would just make a takedown easier as you just give more oportunities for a takedown and leave yourself open. I know you can just "get back up" without any effort, but still.

[floyd1982]

It is simple mathematics and proven fact that the MMA guy is going to win 90% of the time.

A boxer has two offensive weapons. An MMA fighter trains those too (although he isn't as highly skilled as a boxer) along with elbows, knees, kicks, thai clinches, wrestling clinches, and wrestling shots. That is two weapons vs over ten weapons. To get into range to attack, you have to get past the guys legs, he can kick your legs out from under you before you get that close. He can use his kicks to keep you at bay and then shoot the TD when you get into range to punch.

I respect the hell out of boxing and think it is actually way underrated in MMA but to say a boxer has more than a puncher's chance against a MMA guy is ludicrous. FYI, a sprawl doesn't do much good if the guy shoots a single, turns the corner on a double, goes to a high crotch position,or body locks you so to say "learn to sprawl" is niave at best.

I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes but Paloa, the dude you were training with must not be a very good MMA fighter if you did really well against him with little to no BJJ experience. I've been doing it for nearly two years (bllue belt) and am completely confident that I would embarrass 100% of the people on the street with no grappling experience. I even take wrestlers that have been wrestling for 20+ years and have them tapping within minutes, either the dude was playing with you or he isn't that good on the ground.

Also, good luck causing any significant damage to anybody from the bottom (fight ending damage that is). You may cause some cuts and bruises from your 12-6 elbows but you don't have the leverage behind your 12-6 elbows that the guy on top would have utilizing the same elbows. Oh, and nobody would willingly go into your guard, I would simply pass it to get you into side control so you would eat knees all day long (not saying I would beat you up personally, just saying in general, that would be my strategy).

I suggest going to a real MMA gym and rolling with some top level guys. You will come out with a different level of respect. I've gotten tattood by a pro boxer and he was being very, very nice to me so I know and have respect for what you guys do but MMA is just a different beast. You need to truly try it before you assume things.

[floyd1982]

Another thing we are assuming is that this MMA fighter is bad ass I guess b/c almost ZERO MMA fighters have evolved their game enough to be complete Aces in every aspect of MMA. There are guys with great BJJ but sorry ass wrestling, like Maia. Great wrestling but sorry BJJ defense like Chael Sonnen. Phenomenal striking and BJJ but piss fair wrestling like Anderson Silva. There are only a few guys out there that can be a threat everywhere so that is something to think about when we are discussing this.

One final thought for the boxers. Most guys in MMA that their base is wrestling do phenomenally better than someone with a straight striking background. Avoiding the TD while getting the KO without years of experience in wrestling is almost impossible. Wrestlers have some reatrded win ratio like 80 some percent. If you can't wrestle, you are not winning a fight. If someone can beat you with rules, imagine what they would do to you with no rules.

[floyd1982]

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[KillSomething]

A boxer has to avoid the takedown, the main thing an MMA fighter should do is take down a boxer and you just make it easier by moving in and attempting to punch the guy.

I personally think it's easier to be taken down by boxing off the back foot. By coming forward, you make it easier for him to close distance, but not necessarily take you down. Also, he's more likely to go high than low if you do this. As a boxer, I'm going to prefer the takedown attempt to come at a higher level rather than a lower one, for obvious reasons.

MMA fighters RESPECT a boxer's punching ability, they're never scared or afraid of punches or kicks or whatever. An MMA fighter should be perplexed by the way you can move? Lol.Not scared in the normal sense of the word. Scared as in 'I have to be careful that he doesn't land clean on me, because I'm dealing with a more precise, powerful striker than usual and I don't want to be knocked out.' Not 'I hope the big man doesn't hurt me.'

A good boxer can take angles extremely well and extremely fast. This is important in MMA too, but the footwork in boxing, especially in close, is on another level. You can use this to your advantage by lunging in, then back out to one side and punching from that side. Is it always gonna work? No, but it doesn't always work in boxing either. But when it works, it works very very well. MMA fighters typically have different reactions to a guy rushing in swinging. They like to duck and cover with their hands high (They have a lot more things to worry about when being charged than a boxer does). A ton of KOs in MMA happen as a result of guys covering up and then getting hit from an angle when they look up to counter.

Have you followed this thread at all? You clinch as a boxer vs an MMA fighter and you most certainly are fucked cause he ain't letting go. Elbows, knees, takedown, you're done.I guess I'm basing my assumptions off the theory that most boxers aren't clueless and retarded. I'm not talking about a hug here, I'm talking about an actual tie-his-arms-up-and-take-him-backward clinch. Hell, even the slightest amount of training in a martial art like judo can make you extremely effective in this. Boxers are usually quite good at it anyway. Yes he's going to be trying to trip you up and throw knees. Deal with it. It's also a good opportunity to break the clinch and go straight into punching him.

You press the offence you open yourself hugely to a takedown. I like the way guys in this thread say "just get back up if you're taken down" Try this, lie flat on the floor, get someone to lie across your chest and tell them to punch you in the face as hard as they want as you try to stand up. It isn't fucking easy. And I would love to know how you'd "tie him up" without getting hit and burning a lot of energy doing so.Personally, I'd try to do something like the guy in the clip posted a few pages back did. Pin the arms and keep your head in his chest. Lock him into the guard if possible.

Also, pressing the offense does indeed open you up to a takedown. But don't you think your chances of getting taken down are high anyway, even if you run? By pressing the offense, you open yourself up to takedowns a bit more, but you also open him up for punches SIGNIFICANTLY more, since you're dictating the terms of the exchange.

MMA fighters are used to leg kicks. Kick him, he'll kick you back harder.Good. While he's doing that, he won't be taking me down. And I don't care how used to leg kicks you are--they still hurt if they aren't checked correctly. And while I'd be looking for him to kick me, he would most likely not expect it from me. Good way to set up a combination by getting him to counter the kick. In a standing exchange, the boxer is going to be at a huge advantage.

Overall attacking would just make a takedown easier as you just give more oportunities for a takedown and leave yourself open. I know you can just "get back up" without any effort, but still.Then what do you suggest, aside from just not fighting the guy in the first place? And I never said getting up was easy, but it's the goal. And maybe I just have a rose-tinted view of the world, but I like to think that most boxers and grown men in general have at least a bit of familiarity with wrestling/groundfighting. You know, in the sense that MMA fighters have at least a bit of familiarity with boxing. They won't in in a boxing match, but they can throw a basic punch correctly when they feel like it and they know the most basic of the basics.

If I was to get in a fight, even though most of my training is in boxing, I'd still prefer to get the other guy on the ground--I can soccer kick him, punch him, or just the throw itself could be enough. If he's got more training than me and is stronger, then I'm pretty much fucked unless I get up. But I'm not talking about fighting GSP or anything. I've wrestled/done some randori with wrestlers, and they're not some sort of unstoppable now-you-see-them-now-you're-on-your-back machines.

There are levels in MMA, and I'm fairly confident that if I was to take on an MMA fighter who had the same amount of experience in MMA that I have in boxing, I'd be alright. It comes down to the old question--jack of all trades or master of one? A lot of it will depend on the person, their style, and how well they fight, not how much they know or what their discipline is.

Also, are we talking about a fight here or a contest? Because I will guarantee you that there's no 'boxing' in a real fight. The aggressive fighter who takes the initiative is more often than not going to win.

If I'm in a fight and I have time and space to circle around and play keepaway, then I shouldn't be in this fight should I?

[paloalto00]

I love when they post vids of bums ;)

[viru§™]

I love when they post vids of bums ;)

If you're refering to Ramon Dekker, at least get a clue.


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[Onepunch]

I agree witht the point that strikers are dasadvantaged but you should know that the Ramon Dekkers in that vid was similar to the Mike Tyson that fought Danny Williams.. older, fatter and very washed up.

[viru§™]

I personally think it's easier to be taken down by boxing off the back foot. By coming forward, you make it easier for him to close distance, but not necessarily take you down. Also, he's more likely to go high than low if you do this. As a boxer, I'm going to prefer the takedown attempt to come at a higher level rather than a lower one, for obvious reasons.

The point is the guy just has to get close enough to grab you, if you walk at him you make the job easier. What makes you think he'll go high? There's a huge number of techniques he could potentially use but obviously you must know what he's going to do. Why would you want him to go high anyway? You're not still clinging to the "Hook or uppercut when he comes in" idea are you? The odds of you seeing the shot coming and reacting in time will be near enough 0.

Not scared in the normal sense of the word. Scared as in 'I have to be careful that he doesn't land clean on me, because I'm dealing with a more precise, powerful striker than usual and I don't want to be knocked out.' Not 'I hope the big man doesn't hurt me.'Yes. That's known as respect.

A good boxer can take angles extremely well and extremely fast. This is important in MMA too, but the footwork in boxing, especially in close, is on another level. You can use this to your advantage by lunging in, then back out to one side and punching from that side. Is it always gonna work? No, but it doesn't always work in boxing either. But when it works, it works very very well. MMA fighters typically have different reactions to a guy rushing in swinging. They like to duck and cover with their hands high (They have a lot more things to worry about when being charged than a boxer does). A ton of KOs in MMA happen as a result of guys covering up and then getting hit from an angle when they look up to counter. I guess I'm basing my assumptions off the theory that most boxers aren't clueless and retarded. I'm not talking about a hug here, I'm talking about an actual tie-his-arms-up-and-take-him-backward clinch. Hell, even the slightest amount of training in a martial art like judo can make you extremely effective in this. Boxers are usually quite good at it anyway. Yes he's going to be trying to trip you up and throw knees. Deal with it. It's also a good opportunity to break the clinch and go straight into punching him. I like your attitude as to how you just clinch the guy then you get away or "he's going to be trying to trip you up and throw knees. Deal with it." What about when he takes you down, as soon as he grabs you that's what he's going to do. Once an MMA fighter has the underhooks in you're going to the ground since you don't have a clue how to combat that.

Personally, I'd try to do something like the guy in the clip posted a few pages back did. Pin the arms and keep your head in his chest. Lock him into the guard if possible.Then what? Lose the round, lying there doing nothing? Waste all your energy for the next round holding on to him or just get that tired from trying to hold him down you can't defend his ground and pound?

Also, pressing the offense does indeed open you up to a takedown. But don't you think your chances of getting taken down are high anyway, even if you run? By pressing the offense, you open yourself up to takedowns a bit more, but you also open him up for punches SIGNIFICANTLY more, since you're dictating the terms of the exchange.First thing I agree with. A boxer can only punch and move, obviously he should move in and punch, it increases his chances but not by a huge amount, just he's using his skills more instead of trying to counter.

Good. While he's doing that, he won't be taking me down. And I don't care how used to leg kicks you are--they still hurt if they aren't checked correctly. And while I'd be looking for him to kick me, he would most likely not expect it from me. Good way to set up a combination by getting him to counter the kick. In a standing exchange, the boxer is going to be at a huge advantage.I like how you think you can just kick and it'll hurt. Have you ever seen somebody trying to throw a roundhouse kick for the first time or even after a month or 2 of practice? 99% of the time it isn't pretty. No balance, no power, no control, it's awful. Why you think a boxer can just start throwing kicks I don't know. Another point is where are you going to kick him? You won't be able to aim your kicks either since you don't know how to kick, so I guess it doesn't matter actually...

Then what do you suggest, aside from just not fighting the guy in the first place? And I never said getting up was easy, but it's the goal. And maybe I just have a rose-tinted view of the world, but I like to think that most boxers and grown men in general have at least a bit of familiarity with wrestling/groundfighting. You know, in the sense that MMA fighters have at least a bit of familiarity with boxing. They won't in in a boxing match, but they can throw a basic punch correctly when they feel like it and they know the most basic of the basics. The boxer has a chance but what you don't seem to want to accept is it's a VERY slim chance. Same an MMA fighter will have a VERY slim chance vs a boxer in a boxing match, you'd agree with that but people won't seem to see it the other way round as boxer vs MMA in an MMA match.

If I was to get in a fight, even though most of my training is in boxing, I'd still prefer to get the other guy on the ground--I can soccer kick him, punch him, or just the throw itself could be enough. If he's got more training than me and is stronger, then I'm pretty much fucked unless I get up. But I'm not talking about fighting GSP or anything. I've wrestled/done some randori with wrestlers, and they're not some sort of unstoppable now-you-see-them-now-you're-on-your-back machines. As a boxer you would take an MMA fighter to the ground? :patsch

There are levels in MMA, and I'm fairly confident that if I was to take on an MMA fighter who had the same amount of experience in MMA that I have in boxing, I'd be alright. It comes down to the old question--jack of all trades or master of one? A lot of it will depend on the person, their style, and how well they fight, not how much they know or what their discipline is.It doesn't take a huge amount of experience of wrestling to take you down. It doesn't take a huge amount of experience of BJJ to know some submissions/chokes. It doesn't take a huge amount of experience in Muay Thai to know how to do basic punches, elbows, knees and kicks. So MMA has the basics of standing, take downs and ground game. You are abount mediocre/good at standing and that's it. The odds go to MMA.

Also, are we talking about a fight here or a contest? Because I will guarantee you that there's no 'boxing' in a real fight. The aggressive fighter who takes the initiative is more often than not going to win. I don't know if we're talking street fight or UFC bout anymore, it doesn't really matter. The more tools you can bring to a fight the more chance you have of winning, simple as that.

If I'm in a fight and I have time and space to circle around and play keepaway, then I shouldn't be in this fight should I?Depends why you're doing that.

Instead of coming up with these ideas that you can just stand up when you're taken down and you can just break away from a clinch because you're a man or you can avoid a takedown because you've done a bit of wrestling, maybe you should go do a few MMA classes. Your opinions and views will change very quickly, I guarantee. I used to do the same as you and think I could just get up and avoid takedowns and whatever else but after going to just one MMA class my views changed completely.

[Sprawla]

Really? I was doing some ground work with the guy and had no problem with my arms. Also he informed me that you can no longer elbow at a 12-6 motion, which would cause ALOT of damage to an opponent trying to get into your guard

how experienced was the guy you were grappling?

you would have no chance against a good grappler, you would be choked to sleep or get seriously hurt in a submission..

[viru§™]

how experienced was the guy you were grappling?

you would have no chance against a good grappler, you would be choked to sleep or get seriously hurt in a submission..

From what he's said so far the guy just couldn't be bothered or he absolutely sucks at MMA.

[Jersey Joe]

Get top notch takedown defence, square up your stance, and learn to check and block kicks, otherwise you are fucked.

[viru§™]

Get top notch takedown defence, square up your stance, and learn to check and block kicks, otherwise you are fucked.

Hang on, are we talking about a BOXER vs an MMA guy here or are we talking about what a boxer needs to train to fight an MMA guy? Why people keep saying train this train that I don't know. The quetion is in a match what should a BOXER do to win a fight vs MMA. If you start training sprawls, kicks, elbows, checking kicks etc you're pretty much an MMA fighter, not a boxer.

[KillSomething]

Hang on, are we talking about a BOXER vs an MMA guy here or are we talking about what a boxer needs to train to fight an MMA guy? Why people keep saying train this train that I don't know. The quetion is in a match what should a BOXER do to win a fight vs MMA. If you start training sprawls, kicks, elbows, checking kicks etc you're pretty much an MMA fighter, not a boxer.

Which is why I say go at him and try to get him before he gets you. Especially in an actual fight. In a cage, do whatever you want because clearly you're retarded for fighting in a completely different sport.

It's almost universally accepted that in a fight the guy who is more aggressive will usually win. Not necessarily running at someone swinging wildly, but the guy who hits first and applies intelligent pressure.


Also, I completely disagree with you about an MMA fighter being able to just take a boxer down just like that. I've had VERY limited experience in MCMAP and Judo, but when I first started each (and I started MCMAP before I started boxing) I was able to take more experienced people down and submit them, usually pretty easily if they were even close to my size. I picked up leg kicking about the first time it was introduced to me, because it hurt so bad and I could see it would be effective.

The only experience I had in fighting before this was what you could call catch wrestling with my friends. When my friends or family got together when I was a kid/teenager, there was going to be submission wrestling/grappling. (We were from the country and for some reason we considered this normal and fun...weird, I know) Most of us didn't know what we were doing at all, but you pick some stuff up over time.

By the time I started in Judo, I had already been boxing for abut a year and even against the guys in the class who were wrestlers, boxing was effective in making me difficult to take down. Most of the wrestlers would dispense with throws since we were all new and couldn't do throws all that well, and they'd try to shoot in for a takedown. I knew how to sprawl and get my legs out of the way, and more often than not a takedown attempt resulted in the other person being put in a guillotine, a headlock, or me just escaping.

Even with an extremely limited background in grappling (my formal training in MCMAP and Judo probably amounts to less than 6 months), I feel more than capable of keeping the fight standing or escaping once I'm on the ground--against a person with experience in MMA comparable to mine in boxing. Becoming an expert at takedowns and submissions requires time and experience. A person who has done MMA for 2 years is going to know how to do everything, but they won't be equally good at everything. They'll be downright terrible at some things, quite possibly. By comparison, two years of boxing has made me a very good striker (relative to the MMA guy, of course). So yes, he has more options, but my one option is extremely high-level compared to any option he has.

[KillSomething]

Once an MMA fighter has the underhooks in you're going to the ground since you don't have a clue how to combat that.

Underhooks is what I was referring to by clinching. A boxer is supposed to do that when he's in a clinch as well.

First thing I agree with. A boxer can only punch and move, obviously he should move in and punch, it increases his chances but not by a huge amount, just he's using his skills more instead of trying to counter.

I'm glad you agree with it, because it's the point of my entire post. You fight to your strengths instead of trying to defend against everything the other guy might do. It won't guarantee a win, but you were probably going to lose anyway so it really doesn't hurt anything, and it gives you a better chance than you would otherwise have. That's all I was saying.

The boxer has a chance but what you don't seem to want to accept is it's a VERY slim chance. Same an MMA fighter will have a VERY slim chance vs a boxer in a boxing match, you'd agree with that but people won't seem to see it the other way round as boxer vs MMA in an MMA match.

On the contrary, I've stated this and/or implied it REPEATEDLY. We're talking about the best strategy, not whether you have a good chance of winning or not. I'm a boxer and a boxing fan, but I'll be the first to admit what you just said. It's the only educated opinion, really. (Although I don't completely agree that an MMA fighter has the same chance in a boxing match, at least on the world-class level. Boxing is such a science at that point that there's almost zero possibility for a lucky punch, and even if it did land...you have to land more than a few of them. In an amateur match then sure, I agree.)

As a boxer you would take an MMA fighter to the ground?

As a boxer and someone who kindasorta knows how to fight a little, I'd try to put the other guy on the ground if I was in an actual fight, yes. In an MMA fight, of course not.

It doesn't take a huge amount of experience of wrestling to take you down.

Taking someone down is not easy. Even if the person is totally untrained, they don't want to be taken down, so they'll run, scramble, whatever. Would they have an easier time taking a boxer down than another MMA fighter? Sure. But not every boxer is going to look as surprised and clueless (and immobile) as James Toney when someone goes for a takedown. (I actually lol'd when I saw that, btw.)

It doesn't take a huge amount of experience of BJJ to know some submissions/chokes.

It actually doesn't take any experience at all.

It doesn't take a huge amount of experience in Muay Thai to know how to do basic punches, elbows, knees and kicks.

It doesn't take a huge amount of experience in boxing to know how to throw all the basic punches and do all the basic defensive maneuvers, but there's a difference between knowing how to do something and being able to do it extremely well.

So MMA has the basics of standing, take downs and ground game. You are abount mediocre/good at standing and that's it. The odds go to MMA.

What you're saying, I think, is that MMA has the basics of everything, so even if I'm good at one of those things, they have an advantage. Of course. But being alright at everything isn't always enough to beat someone who's very good at one thing. And if they happen to be good at something else, or even if they have the basics down (takedown defense...), they're beginning to even the odds.

For example, if Kermit Cintron was to get an MMA fight, my money would be on him. He's an EXPERT striker, and he has solid ground skills. If he wants to fight standing up, then you're gonna have to fight him standing up. But at the end of the day, he's still a boxer. Just a boxer who happens to have a background in another sport as well. This DOES NOT make him an MMA fighter, which is what people would probably say if he did cross over.

The more tools you can bring to a fight the more chance you have of winning, simple as that.

I prefer expertise to options, but that's just my preference.

Instead of coming up with these ideas that you can just stand up when you're taken down and you can just break away from a clinch because you're a man or you can avoid a takedown because you've done a bit of wrestling, maybe you should go do a few MMA classes. Your opinions and views will change very quickly, I guarantee. I used to do the same as you and think I could just get up and avoid takedowns and whatever else but after going to just one MMA class my views changed completely.

I'm sure they would, but I have no interest in doing multiple sports. It's hard enough to be good at one sport, so I'm not going to waste my time cross-training.

[boxer13]

you have obviously never grappled, if a mma fighter gets a boxer on the ground he wont even be able to move his arms, he will trap his arms and pound the shit out of him. How will the boxer fish hook if he cant move his arms.
i took up boxing first, done that for 5 years and started mma now 1 year ago. if the boxer can stay at range and hit a mma guy then he wins but if he makes one mistake and the mma guy grabs him and takes him down, the boxer is fucked. My strength is striking in mma and let me tell you i still have trouble with good wrestlers.

No I admit I never have grappled before besides screwing around with my friends and I'm not taking anything away from an MMA fighter or belittle them I'm just saying if I were to get into a street fight with anyone, even if I knew bjj or wrestling, I would NOT want to get that close to my opponent anyway. In a street fight you never know what may happen, and being that close to someone is extremely dangerous. It doesn't take much training to go for someones groin or eyes or throat and I'd think it would take less time to do that then to get into position to set up chokes or other techniques.

[boxer13]

you know the MMA guy can do that too right?

Whatchya gonna do when he's sitting on top of you and decides to fish hook YOU or break YOUR fingers.

I don't get why people are arguing this, if you wanna be able to handle it then go do some grappling on the side.

Okay he can do it too but that doesn't mean hes a better eye gouger or dirty fighter than I am since we both are probably not training to do that in our respective sports. Yes he probably will have better positioning than me but thats the thing about life or death techniques such as this, they don't take much strength, technique or time to do and cause massive amounts of damage.

[floyd1982]

I love when they post vids of bums ;)
didn't you do the same :yep

[paloalto00]

how experienced was the guy you were grappling?

you would have no chance against a good grappler, you would be choked to sleep or get seriously hurt in a submission..

Lol, he only has about 4 pro fights; idk how many amateurs though. And says who? You're basing this on philosphy.

[paloalto00]

didn't you do the same :yep

Nope :yep

[Sprawla]

No I admit I never have grappled before besides screwing around with my friends and I'm not taking anything away from an MMA fighter or belittle them I'm just saying if I were to get into a street fight with anyone, even if I knew bjj or wrestling, I would NOT want to get that close to my opponent anyway. In a street fight you never know what may happen, and being that close to someone is extremely dangerous. It doesn't take much training to go for someones groin or eyes or throat and I'd think it would take less time to do that then to get into position to set up chokes or other techniques.


what you are saying is true, but i thought this was about a boxer vs mma. Not about street fighting.
Don't forget a lot of mma fighters kick box or do muay thai. A kick lands befor a punch everytime

[Sprawla]

Lol, he only has about 4 pro fights; idk how many amateurs though. And says who? You're basing this on philosphy.


you are a fucking goose and a liar. A decent grappler would fuck up any beginner. I will not debate this with tossers.

[GreatWhiteHype]

How do you figure he has 4+ years of jiu-jitsu experience? He was fighting in MMA after only 1 year of his last boxing match before retiring for the first time.

Because he had been fighting MMA as a pro since 2005, and that fight was in 2008.

Can't verify, but rumor is he also has a judo black belt. Regardless, you don't fight MMA that long and never train grappling. It's ridiculous to think so.

[paloalto00]

Because he had been fighting MMA as a pro since 2005, and that fight was in 2008.

Can't verify, but rumor is he also has a judo black belt. Regardless, you don't fight MMA that long and never train grappling. It's ridiculous to think so.

And he also had his last boxing match in 2007... either way what's your point. His standup dominated

[Partaxian]

And he also had his last boxing match in 2007... either way what's your point. His standup dominated


Well it's clear that he was taken to the ground and he used his ground grappling experience to get himself out and back up to his feet where he can dominate. Plenty of mma fighters dominate standing, doesn't mean their not an mma fighter. Jeremy also has a black belt in judo. Judo is a martial art. Boxing is a martial art. You combine the 2 it's called mixing martial arts... Real simple. Jeremy ha also been working on bjj.

You go into mma with just wrestling, you get submitted, go in there with just bjj, you get ktfo, go there with just striking, boxing/kb/muay thai, you get submitted or ground and pounded.

Btw there's sparring vID of Jeremy n Lennox, Jeremy gets frustrated and starts throwing Lewis around.

[paloalto00]

Well it's clear that he was taken to the ground and he used his ground grappling experience to get himself out and back up to his feet where he can dominate. Plenty of mma fighters dominate standing, doesn't mean their not an mma fighter. Jeremy also has a black belt in judo. Judo is a martial art. Boxing is a martial art. You combine the 2 it's called mixing martial arts... Real simple. Jeremy ha also been working on bjj.

You go into mma with just wrestling, you get submitted, go in there with just bjj, you get ktfo, go there with just striking, boxing/kb/muay thai, you get submitted or ground and pounded.

Btw there's sparring vID of Jeremy n Lennox, Jeremy gets frustrated and starts throwing Lewis around.

You are basically backing up my point, if I'm a championship boxer I'm at a huge advantage for all I need to learn is how to stay and get back up to my feet

[viru§™]

You are basically backing up my point, if I'm a championship boxer I'm at a huge advantage for all I need to learn is how to stay and get back up to my feet

Wow. You seriously have no clue. I believe this is what Toney thought, go watch the video of what happened to him.

[paloalto00]

Wow. You seriously have no clue. I believe this is what Toney thought, go watch the video of what happened to him.

Out of shape, not even good at his own sport Toney?

[viru§™]

It's not as black and white as you put it, if you get taken down get back up so you can carry on trying to punch the guy. There's a lot more that goes on between getting taken down and getting back up. Like what to do if he starts getting you in a triangle or guillotine choke. What if he starts getting you in a leg lock. You have to learn how to defend yourself on the gound i.e. BJJ, you don't know what position you're going to end up in. This was Toney's downfall as he thought like you, the "I'll just get back up" mindset. People that think like that have no clue and won't get far in MMA.

[Partaxian]

You are basically backing up my point, if I'm a championship boxer I'm at a huge advantage for all I need to learn is how to stay and get back up to my feet

You are borrowing skills from other martial arts in order to get back up, most likely bjj and borrowing wrestling moves to stay standing. Cro cop won't submit anyone but to stay standing, he is learning different skills fr different martial arts. By learning different arts, it is, wait for it, mixing martial arts.

Look I'm a boxer but I know my limitations. Saying you will simply get back up from a hold of a bjj black belt without proper grappling training yourself is like saying you will simply slip and block a top professional boxers punches without any boxing background yourself. That's ignorant and incredibly naive.

[KillSomething]

This was Toney's downfall as he thought like you, the "I'll just get back up" mindset. People that think like that have no clue and won't get far in MMA.

:rofl:rofl:rofl

I love how you just assume that James Toney actually 'thought'. And a semi-rational thought at that! You are no longer to be taken seriously sir. :rasta

[killaN'vanilla]

learn to sprawl. seriously this isnt even a question, its a proven theory.

[killaN'vanilla]

Get top notch takedown defence, square up your stance, and learn to check and block kicks, otherwise you are fucked.
lol the sad thing is keeping it standing wont necessarily help either. pele reid kayod klitsch. people forget that.

[Sprawla]

you say polaoto, i say potatoe

polatoto you are a idiot...you have no idea what you are talking about

[vonLPC]

I can't believe people still argue this point. David Haye, who is one of the most athletic boxers in the sport said he got taken down at will when he tried this.

[paloalto00]

you say polaoto, i say potatoe

polatoto you are a idiot...you have no idea what you are talking about

You seem extremely butt hurt on the this, no need for the tears

[paloalto00]

I can't believe people still argue this point. David Haye, who is one of the most athletic boxers in the sport said he got taken down at will when he tried this.

I hope you're not talking about James toney lmfao!!!

[viru§™]

I hope you're not talking about James toney lmfao!!!

Did you actually read what he said? You've been told by a few people, some with actual experience (your little play fight with some kid doesn't really count as experience), that your ideas don't work. It's also been proven over and over in MMA fights vs boxers.

You're either extremely stubborn or extremely dumb.

[paloalto00]

Did you actually read what he said? You've been told by a few people, some with actual experience (your little play fight with some kid doesn't really count as experience), that your ideas don't work. It's also been proven over and over in MMA fights vs boxers.

You're either extremely stubborn or extremely dumb.

Whose actual experience? Also which actual boxers have actually gone into MMA???? Ones that aren't overweight and 9685798465 years old. It's ok I'll wait.

[viru§™]

Here's a good example of a pure boxer trying to fight in an MMA match. From what people have said the guy you used as an exmple of a boxer vs MMA was an MMA fighter as he has a black belt in Judo...

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

He went on the attack and tried to get up when he was taken down, wasn't good enough. This just proves another point from one of my previous posts about not having a clue what to do on the ground, the boxer actually gives the guy his arm for an armbar. I don't know a huge amount about the history of UFC, but I believe this was the time that the Gracies started dominating with BJJ and people realised going in with just striking ability wasn't going to cut it.

[Onepunch]

the guy is just plain retarded. I don't see why you guys bother arguing with him. Unless he actually gets in the cage he won't see the error of his ways.

[paloalto00]

Here's a good example of a pure boxer trying to fight in an MMA match. From what people have said the guy you used as an exmple of a boxer vs MMA was an MMA fighter as he has a black belt in Judo...

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

He went on the attack and tried to get up when he was taken down, wasn't good enough. This just proves another point from one of my previous posts about not having a clue what to do on the ground, the boxer actually gives the guy his arm for an armbar. I don't know a huge amount about the history of UFC, but I believe this was the time that the Gracies started dominating with BJJ and people realised going in with just striking ability wasn't going to cut it.

I'm sorry, who is this boxer????? Exactly.

[paloalto00]

the guy is just plain retarded. I don't see why you guys bother arguing with him. Unless he actually gets in the cage he won't see the error of his ways.

Have YOU ever even stepped in the ring or cage? No, no stfu and have a nice day :hi:

[Onepunch]

LOL i've stepped in a ring for multiple sports, but as of yet never in a cage. I do however train in MMA to supplement my boxing so I have experience to back up what I say.

[paloalto00]

LOL i've stepped in a ring for multiple sports, but as of yet never in a cage. I do however train in MMA to supplement my boxing so I have experience to back up what I say.

Or so you say

[viru§™]

It's ok, I think we give up on you, you're not even giving any points anymore, just saying stupid things to carry this on.

When you feel you can actually back up what you say come and try again.

[paloalto00]

It's ok, I think we give up on you, you're not even giving any points anymore, just saying stupid things to carry this on.

When you feel you can actually back up what you say come and try again.

Lol can't answer my question? I could post a bunch of vids of the gracie's getting their asses whooped by boxers/kickboxers. Would that make you feel better? Rules in the UFC are different from Pride, which probably explains why strikers were the shit in Pride? :hi:

[vonLPC]

I hope you're not talking about James toney lmfao!!!

No David Haye. I'm quite confused now. Anyway, here is your proof, which I'm sure won't be enough.

“Six months of training isn’t going to be enough. As a UFC fan, I know two or three years wouldn’t be enough. How many times has Toney sprawled in his life? 500? How many leg kicks has he taken in his life? 300? How many Kimura attempts has he defended? 140? Even if he’s done double that amount, he wouldn’t have nearly the experience needed to win a UFC fight.”
Haye also stresses that this is not just a criticism of Toney specifically, but rather that he is speaking from his own experiences. In fact it was only a couple of years that Haye, who’s father was a Karate teacher, talked about making the transition when his boxing career comes to an end.
“I know from training in MMA myself that the wrestling aspect ruins your punching power,” he reveals. “After a minute of grappling, your arms, back and shoulders fill with blood and even if you then find space to throw punches, your power is suddenly crap.
“And I hit a lot harder and I’m so much faster than James, and I couldn’t land a punch on fighters when all they wanted to do was take me down to the ground. James is a much more static fighter than I am, and is going to get thrown on his back immediately by Randy. I admire Toney’s spirit and boxing skills. But he’s delusional here.”

[paloalto00]

No David Haye. I'm quite confused now. Anyway, here is your proof, which I'm sure won't be enough.

“Six months of training isn’t going to be enough. As a UFC fan, I know two or three years wouldn’t be enough. How many times has Toney sprawled in his life? 500? How many leg kicks has he taken in his life? 300? How many Kimura attempts has he defended? 140? Even if he’s done double that amount, he wouldn’t have nearly the experience needed to win a UFC fight.”
Haye also stresses that this is not just a criticism of Toney specifically, but rather that he is speaking from his own experiences. In fact it was only a couple of years that Haye, who’s father was a Karate teacher, talked about making the transition when his boxing career comes to an end.
“I know from training in MMA myself that the wrestling aspect ruins your punching power,” he reveals. “After a minute of grappling, your arms, back and shoulders fill with blood and even if you then find space to throw punches, your power is suddenly crap.
“And I hit a lot harder and I’m so much faster than James, and I couldn’t land a punch on fighters when all they wanted to do was take me down to the ground. James is a much more static fighter than I am, and is going to get thrown on his back immediately by Randy. I admire Toney’s spirit and boxing skills. But he’s delusional here.”

So you're basing this off of 1 fighters comment? Or what about when Couture was backing Toney up?

I'm not saying a boxer is going to go into MMA without any training is going to dominate. I'm saying they do have a HUGE advantage. Which is why fighters who were champions in a different sport often prosper compared to ones just coming into MMA.

I already knew Toney was going to lose simply because how he boxes, he's a stationary target as compared to Roy Jones who can't sit still. Because of the UFC, people are often mistaken that ground game is the key to anything; but often forget about when Pride was around.

[Sprawla]

Whose actual experience? Also which actual boxers have actually gone into MMA???? Ones that aren't overweight and 9685798465 years old. It's ok I'll wait.


ever heard of kj noons

[paloalto00]

ever heard of kj noons

Nope, just looked him up

[boxer13]

This debate should be put to rest already.

If a boxer fought an mixed martial artist in an MMA match the majority of the time the boxer will lose.

If a mixed martial artist fought a boxer in a BOXING match the majority of the time the mma guy will lose.

Thats pretty much it!

I'm pretty sure this won't end the debate as it has probably been said in many other threads like this.

Sooo, in an mma fight I'd say a boxer would have to have a good jab and put pressure with it at a pretty close range(to stuff kicks) while using a lot of lateral movement at the same time to avoid take downs. (Frankie Edge in his bj penn fights is a good example of someone in mma that does this) However theres still the threat of kicks and especially low kicks which will really be effective against a boxer because they put a lot of weight on their front foot compared to say a muay thai fighter.

The reason a boxer has better punching than a mma guy is because mma figthers can't really keep their legs set so much because they have to think about sprawling, take downs, kicking, checking kicks and etc so naturally they can't throw punches as well as a boxer. This doesn't excuse guys like Nogueira, Rich Franklin, Forest Griffin and many other mma guys which I won't name who throwing ridiculously looping wide punches.

[norfolkinchance]

MMA fighters are very versatile. Depending on the fighter they usually have a background in something they are very good at. Example - Randy Couture - Olympic level wrestler. The 3 parts to a fighter are standing (boxing, kickboxing etc), takedown and ground game. Good fighters always have a high level past in one or more of these parts. To say they are mediocre or crap at everything is very ignorant.

i agree with this to a certain extent but most kids joining gyms see mma on tv and come into a mma gym with no experieence of any fighting sport. they want to be tough and hard which is fine but trying to learn 3 arts all at once means he skill level is very average in each. i have sparred boxing with loads of mmafighters and by and large they arent that hot. i sparred a while ago with some area champion who has own gym and his boxing was terrible.

so i have nothing to add top technique sugestions apart from chuck did ok didnt he.....

and anyone who wants to fight mma i would train intensively in thai or ju jitsu foirst for a year and then add another skill...

[floyd1982]

Lol can't answer my question? I could post a bunch of vids of the gracie's getting their asses whooped by boxers/kickboxers. Would that make you feel better? Rules in the UFC are different from Pride, which probably explains why strikers were the shit in Pride? :hi:
Post them..... I'll wait. I want to see pure boxers whipping the Gracie's ass.

I could show you Art Jimmerson vs Royce Gracie.

You aren't going to find too many boxers that would transition to MMA for a couple of reasons. There is more money to be made in boxing and most boxers know that they would get worked over in the cage if they just decided to jump over.

[paloalto00]

Post them..... I'll wait. I want to see pure boxers whipping the Gracie's ass.

I could show you Art Jimmerson vs Royce Gracie.

You aren't going to find too many boxers that would transition to MMA for a couple of reasons. There is more money to be made in boxing and most boxers know that they would get worked over in the cage if they just decided to jump over.

Lol there is no reason to make even more alt accounts, there are no PURE boxers; besides the old guys.

[viru§™]

I could post a bunch of vids of the gracie's getting their asses whooped by boxers/kickboxers.

Waiting...

[floyd1982]

Lol there is no reason to make even more alt accounts, there are no PURE boxers; besides the old guys.
Ummm.... I know you are trolling but damn...

It's obvious that you know very little about MMA but I don't mind. If you would actually ask questions instead of being an ass, you might learn something. Besides, your argument has changed so many times that it is hard to keep straight what we are actually arguing.

I'd be happy to talk to you more if you are willing to admit you know nothing of MMA. Boxing is a part of MMA. You won't find Mayweather caliber boxers in MMA b/c there isn't enough time to train one area that extensively. Elite boxers spend all of their time perfecting boxing so it would be the case that they couldn't excel at all aspects of MMA if they transitioned. That is why a boxer would loose that battle. It has been evident since UFC 1. Look at a boxing match and watch how many times they clinch. For every clinch like that in a MMA setting, that is a whole different battle. I doubt a pure boxer would even have the grappling cardio to go 3 five minute rounds, it is a different type of cardio.

I love boxing and know that in a ring, MMA fighters don't stand a chance. Doesn't mean that MMA doesn't have decent boxers. There are pro boxers that went to MMA such as Chris Lytle, Marcus Davis, and KJ Noons. There are some golden gloves winners as well. It just carries over that a boxer would do as good at MMa as a MMA fighter would do as a pure boxer. THe difference is, MMA represents a more realistic scenario for a fight then just boxing.

Meh, I could go on but whatever. You wouldn't listen anyways.

[paloalto00]

Waiting...

There you go

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Sprawla]

Nope, just looked him up


he is fighting nick diaz next week, boxer turned mma fighter and he is kicking ass. Is a well rounded fighter with his hands being the strength

[viru§™]

There you go

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Melvin Manhoef is a professional MMA fighter. He was Cage Rage light heavyweight champion for almost two years. He's not a pure kickboxer/boxer.

Try again.

[Kraik]

There you go

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The referee in that match stinks.

[boxer13]

he is fighting nick diaz next week, boxer turned mma fighter and he is kicking ass. Is a well rounded fighter with his hands being the strength

*kind of off topic* I don't think Noons will beat nick diaz this time although I wish he would. His boxing ability and boxing IQ really was the difference in their first right though.

[MagnaNasakki]

Aggression. Hit the pace immediately and explode with the very best combination you got, don't stop until he's gone or you are on your back. Its probably not going to work, but its the only thing you can do that may succeed. MMA fighters do it on eachother and if the other guys freezes(Which even world champions in both sports do) you can get off and thereby have a chance.

I train MMA fighters hands, and have just begun to take free grappling lessons as part of my payment for doing so. And I do agree with the one guy about levels. My first lesson last week I more than held my own against a guy who had been there for months but had no real decoration, strength. That same practice, one of the black belts tied me into 6 different kinds of pretzels.

The guy has to be GOOD at his grappling to be effective. If you are a good boxer and a decent athlete, and he has good knowledge and experience grappling but is in worse condition or just isn't plain good at it, he'll struggle with you(Or smaller-Seen a D1 wrestler at 135 pounds get annihilated sparring a superheavyweight boxer who wanted to tangle. His wrestling didn't count for much against that kind of disparity).

Assuming the guy is a decent MMA fighter, bumrush him firing your best stuff, and hope you either clip him or he forgets himself. You'll have trouble otherwise in that your probably headed for an ass whipping.

Again, though, I must say, all those claiming MMA dominance are assuming a level of skill that many who train just do not possess. If you're in an MMA fight with a damn good MMA fighter, you should second guess the decisions that got you there. If its in a street fight, kick him in the nuts.

[DynamicMoves]

I don't know if this was mentioned, as I can't be fucked to sift through 11 pages of text.

However, I haven't seen anything about certain topics I absolutely hate about MMA, which I will explain now.
First, and probably the most important is the fact that MMA has many rules that make it so there is no way that it is close to a real life situation, as some people argue. True, any type of fighting training will help, but I wouldn't recommend MMA. MMA has a lot of groundwork that exposes the back of your head, and in a real life situation it's not always 1v1.
Second, the rules in MMA, as far as I know so feel free to correct me, don't allow joint locks, which kills entire schools of martial arts. Hapkido, which I train in joint to Tae Kwon Do.
Third, many MMA fighters don't seem to master any form of martial arts, but pick at and take little pieces of each.
Last, from what I've seen at least, there is no respect, with the exception of one match I saw which was Chung Le.

[viru§™]

I don't know if this was mentioned, as I can't be fucked to sift through 11 pages of text.

However, I haven't seen anything about certain topics I absolutely hate about MMA, which I will explain now.

[quote]First, and probably the most important is the fact that MMA has many rules that make it so there is no way that it is close to a real life situation, as some people argue. True, any type of fighting training will help, but I wouldn't recommend MMA. MMA has a lot of groundwork that exposes the back of your head, and in a real life situation it's not always 1v1.It's not meant to be a street fight, it's a mixed martial arts fight. People that argue it's meant to be like a street fight have no idea what MMA is all about. That's like saying a boxing match is meant to be the same as a bar fight, how the fuck does that make sense? And your last point, you want to make fights 2 or 3 vs 1 or what?

Second, the rules in MMA, as far as I know so feel free to correct me, don't allow joint locks, which kills entire schools of martial arts. Hapkido, which I train in joint to Tae Kwon Do. No joint locks? I may be wrong but I'd say BJJ utilises a lot of joint locks.

Third, many MMA fighters don't seem to master any form of martial arts, but pick at and take little pieces of each.When you have 3 skill sets to learn, striking, takedown and ground, that's 3 seperate martial arts. It would take a hell of a long time to master all 3. Best thing to do is take the most effective techniques from each martial art and throw them together. Guess what that means.... mixed martial arts.

Last, from what I've seen at least, there is no respect, with the exception of one match I saw which was Chung Le.You haven't watched many MMA fights then.

[dangerousity]

I don't know if this was mentioned, as I can't be fucked to sift through 11 pages of text.

However, I haven't seen anything about certain topics I absolutely hate about MMA, which I will explain now.
First, and probably the most important is the fact that MMA has many rules that make it so there is no way that it is close to a real life situation, as some people argue. True, any type of fighting training will help, but I wouldn't recommend MMA. MMA has a lot of groundwork that exposes the back of your head, and in a real life situation it's not always 1v1.
Second, the rules in MMA, as far as I know so feel free to correct me, don't allow joint locks, which kills entire schools of martial arts. Hapkido, which I train in joint to Tae Kwon Do.
Third, many MMA fighters don't seem to master any form of martial arts, but pick at and take little pieces of each.
Last, from what I've seen at least, there is no respect, with the exception of one match I saw which was Chung Le.

1) The rules protect that opponent. Thats like saying boxing isnt like a proper fist fight because you wear gloves and have to stand up when taken down so a guy with no experience will beat a boxer in fist fight. Rubbish, in a real fist fight, the boxers hands will do more damage, be faster, harder to block, and after he knocks you down he will kick you in the head.

The same goes for MMA. Yes there are rules, take away those rules and you should be scared for your life. In MMA part of the rules is you must stop when your opponent taps out, in real life , if someones gets you into an armbar, he could very well snap that off.

The groundwork would expose the back of your opponents head, not yours. You take your opponent down with the intention of being on top. I agree using stand up is better for fighting multiple opponents, good thing MMA includes stand up huh? Some of the guys are K1 (kickboxing) champs.

Of course being very good at MMA wont guarantee you winning a fight, nothing does, even a gun doesn't, theres still an element of chance and luck involved.

2) Joint locks are allowed in MMA.

3) What is this BS about? Seriously? Where do you get your information from? Of course the average mma fighter isnt gonna be a master of one art, just as your average boxer isnt a master of boxing. However on the top level, you got guys who are indeed masters. Black belts in BJJ, practically the masters/inventors themselves. You got K1 kickboxing champions. Fedor is 7 time Sambo champion. You got olympic level Wrestlers and Judo practioners. You got Karate, kempo black belts of probably the highest levels. You just dont get the top boxers in their prime, simply because there is more money in boxing, apart from that though, they come from all sorts of different martial arts.

[floyd1982]

I don't know if this was mentioned, as I can't be fucked to sift through 11 pages of text.

However, I haven't seen anything about certain topics I absolutely hate about MMA, which I will explain now.
First, and probably the most important is the fact that MMA has many rules that make it so there is no way that it is close to a real life situation, as some people argue. True, any type of fighting training will help, but I wouldn't recommend MMA. MMA has a lot of groundwork that exposes the back of your head, and in a real life situation it's not always 1v1.
Second, the rules in MMA, as far as I know so feel free to correct me, don't allow joint locks, which kills entire schools of martial arts. Hapkido, which I train in joint to Tae Kwon Do.
Third, many MMA fighters don't seem to master any form of martial arts, but pick at and take little pieces of each.
Last, from what I've seen at least, there is no respect, with the exception of one match I saw which was Chung Le.

It's been answered already but I will reiterate.

Joint locks are indeed allowed, that is what an armbar is (your elbow joint) and a knee bar. SMALL JOINT manipulation is not allowed. Something like trying to break a finger. MMA is a sport and they look out for their fighters. Breaking fingers will keep the person out of training and is needless. Since it is a small joint, it is easy to break and hard to apply without breaking. You can armbar someone for the tap and not break their arm, that is why joint locks are allowed but not small joint.

MMA isn't just like a street fight but it is a better representation of a real one on one fight. The original UFCs were just that, a street fight (but 1 on 1). They had to develop regulations to get sanctioned and hold events. They do certain things that are "deadly" or that would maim someone b/c it is a sport. It is more of a true fight than any other organized contact sport.

MMA training would help tremendously. What if you get jumped by two guys and fall down? Your boxing isn't going to help you but your BJJ would allow you to get back to your feet more easily. Wrestling would help b/c you could dump someone on their head, turn the corner, and be squared to take ont he next guy. Thai would probably be most beneficial b/c the plum allows you to control a guy with his head and put him in between you and his friends all while kneeing his stomach inside out.

No masters? You don't have the best guy in the world from each discipline b/c those guys compete in their sport exclusively b/c they are the best but you do have some bad asses.

Fedor - Sambo Champ
Randy C. - Olympic alternate
Maia- ADCC champ (Abu Dhabi, look it up)
Pat Berry- Accomplished kickboxer
Numerous fighters were golden gloves winners
Overeem- very successful kickboxer
Lesnar- National wrestling champ
Carwin- Same
Chael Sonnen- Same
You have multiple black belts in different disciplines. GSP is a black belt in BJJ and Karate.

There is a tremendous amount of respect shown from fighters. Look at GSP, Fedor, Werdum, Anderson Silva (on most days), Randy C, and a bunch of others. Sure you have the loud mouths that give the sport a bad name but every sport has those, can anyone say Floyd Mayweather Jr.?

[Jersey Joe]

lol the sad thing is keeping it standing wont necessarily help either. pele reid kayod klitsch. people forget that.

Yeah, obviously there's no magic formula to never lose. But it's common sense that a boxer must learn some MMA to have a fighting chance in this matchup.

[Bogotazo]

Bump, since I really loved the responses in this thread, and wanted to share this video, in which Shamrock highlights a lot of boxing-oriented tactics for avoiding vulnerability to a take-down.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Chex31]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

A left check hook works at stopping double leg takedowns, and I seen somewhere that jabbing to the chest works too.

[Journey Man]

As a boxer, I'd kick him, because he would not be expecting that.

:rofl:rofl Post of the month right here.

[bald_head_slick]

The best strategy for a Boxer is to realize Boxing is a LIMITED sport and to cross train. A Boxer's only hope is to land fast and do severe damage.

Boxing is effective, but every Western male knows a Boxing stance. Any MMA (or any other martial art/sport) practitioner worth his salt will be able to spot a quality Boxing stance in seconds. When he does? He will proceed to go to Plan B, i.e., a take down, on your Boxing a$$. Any man who is practicing Boxing as a martial art vs a sport needs to be in a gym with other fighting styles so that he can cross spar and modify sport Boxing accordingly.

Also, any skill set for "self-defense" can no longer even be mentioned without some base grappling skill. If you are not prepped for a shoot? You are not prepared.

[lefty]

The best strategy for a Boxer is to realize Boxing is a LIMITED sport and to cross train. A Boxer's only hope is to land fast and do severe damage.

Boxing is effective, but every Western male knows a Boxing stance. Any MMA (or any other martial art/sport) practitioner worth his salt will be able to spot a quality Boxing stance in seconds. When he does? He will proceed to go to Plan B, i.e., a take down, on your Boxing a$$. Any man who is practicing Boxing as a martial art vs a sport needs to be in a gym with other fighting styles so that he can cross spar and modify sport Boxing accordingly.

Also, any skill set for "self-defense" can no longer even be mentioned without some base grappling skill. If you are not prepped for a shoot? You are not prepared.

The assumption you make is that every boxer won't have any idea how to wrestle, from my experience I've found that strength, reflexes and balance play a far larger part in grappling than any skill training ever can. I have a friend who has 25kgs on me and trains mma yet 9 times out of 10 I have him on his back when we wrestle. I'm a good athlete but I've only ever trained boxing. Armbars and the like are also things I think that come naturally, if you know how joints move you know how to make someone uncomfortable instinctively. On one occasion my friend who I was talking about grabbed me low when I was standing up too high and got me on the ground, I managed to flick my body up and get on even ground with him in a grapple, out of nowhere I grabbed his arm and got a lock on it that forced him to give in. Where did that come from, I'm just a boxer?

[vonLPC]

The best strategy for a Boxer is to realize Boxing is a LIMITED sport and to cross train. A Boxer's only hope is to land fast and do severe damage.

Boxing is effective, but every Western male knows a Boxing stance. Any MMA (or any other martial art/sport) practitioner worth his salt will be able to spot a quality Boxing stance in seconds. When he does? He will proceed to go to Plan B, i.e., a take down, on your Boxing a$$. Any man who is practicing Boxing as a martial art vs a sport needs to be in a gym with other fighting styles so that he can cross spar and modify sport Boxing accordingly.

Also, any skill set for "self-defense" can no longer even be mentioned without some base grappling skill. If you are not prepped for a shoot? You are not prepared.

I agree completely with this. My best friend is a legit BJJ purple belt and far better with the gi than without. I watch him destroy far more athletic and bigger guys in sparring, and his wrestling takedowns are only "good" by wrestling standards. He is 180lbs but when he gets on top of you he feels like 400lbs. Good Judokas and BJJ guys know how to be very heavy. Even the mid level blues with some wrestling destroy the athletes with little training. There should never be any athlete with little grappling background that should EVER submit somebody with good ground skills and sub defense.

That being said, I agree with Lefty that balance and strength can be helpful, but no way play a larger part than skills. I have found that folks who know how to clean and snatch in the gym have a better knowledge of how to use there hips than those who don't, thus making at least a basic sprawl for the most part fundamentally right. However, if anyone has tried to avoid takedowns with someone that knows how to "chain" wrestle, it is almost impossible to avoid the second or third transition. I trained with a collegiate wrestler who could barely walk in a straight line, had no strength and was slow, slow, slow. I am completely the antithesis and have some functional wrestling skills. He made me look stupid. I also outweigh him by 45 lbs.

Just my experiences folks.:D

[Primate]

The assumption you make is that every boxer won't have any idea how to wrestle, from my experience I've found that strength, reflexes and balance play a far larger part in grappling than any skill training ever can.
I respect you and I generally enjoy reading your posts on this forum, but this is terribly ignorant. Yes, being a powerful athletic guy will help, but there's no way in hell it's more important than skill.
I have a friend who has 25kgs on me and trains mma yet 9 times out of 10 I have him on his back when we wrestle. I'm a good athlete but I've only ever trained boxing. Armbars and the like are also things I think that come naturally, if you know how joints move you know how to make someone uncomfortable instinctively. On one occasion my friend who I was talking about grabbed me low when I was standing up too high and got me on the ground, I managed to flick my body up and get on even ground with him in a grapple, out of nowhere I grabbed his arm and got a lock on it that forced him to give in. Where did that come from, I'm just a boxer?

Your friend must be an absolutely abysmal grappler. Granted, yes, anyone can grab and arm and twist, but any semi-decent submission grappler should a) be able to avoid having someone with no experience lock him up, and b) be able to counter any sloppy submission attempts with a submission or a sweep of his own.

Also, if he was even a remotely competent grappler it should be difficult for you to hold him down even if you outweighed him. The fact that he outweighed you (by 25kg?!) and you could still hold him under you says to me that he has precisely zero serious grappling experience.

When I weighed 75kgs as a shiny new blue belt I could hold down guys who outweighed me upwards of 20kg. If they did manage to explode out I'd be on my way to a submission before they could reset themselves.

[lefty]

Interesting... thanks for the responses guys. I've found that it's the ability to reposition your body quicker than the other guy and maintain balance that makes the difference in a wrestle, I've always been able to get bigger guys on their back as long as I can remember (keeping them there is a bit more difficult). The only UFC guy that I've seen and thought "This guy is good" is GSP and he does just that, always balanced and in the best position even when on the offensive. So you guys reckon BJJ guys are the hardest to wrestle with? How about classical olympic style wrestlers? Might head down to a place and have a go with somebody experienced so I know what you guys are talking about :good

[bald_head_slick]

The assumption you make is that every boxer won't have any idea how to wrestle, from my experience I've found that strength, reflexes and balance play a far larger part in grappling than any skill training ever can. I have a friend who has 25kgs on me and trains mma yet 9 times out of 10 I have him on his back when we wrestle. I'm a good athlete but I've only ever trained boxing. Armbars and the like are also things I think that come naturally, if you know how joints move you know how to make someone uncomfortable instinctively. On one occasion my friend who I was talking about grabbed me low when I was standing up too high and got me on the ground, I managed to flick my body up and get on even ground with him in a grapple, out of nowhere I grabbed his arm and got a lock on it that forced him to give in. Where did that come from, I'm just a boxer?

I am not really making an assumption. I think it is more you having the assumption that the "idea of how to wrestle" will actually trump being skilled in wrestling. As any Boxer knows, one shot is all it takes. You don't "assume" you can take a punch just like you don't assume "If I had to? I could wrestle."

With all due respect, your friend may not be that good. Also, your friend hasn't bitten you or twisted your flesh. I went into classes with guys who trained BJJ. I was in MONSTER shape and could muscle most of the White belts and got a bit cocky. The teacher threw me in with a small blue belt and I muscled him ONCE and actually didn't have a solid choke that I think I could have "finished" him with. After that? It was choke and arm bar city (on me). Mind you I was on top the whole time too.

Not to knock your friend. A random skilled grappler? My guess you will be toast fairly quickly. Especially if he can feint you into believing you are in a fist fight. Just like pressure crushes even the gamest Boxing newbie, the pressure of an intent grappler will most likely smash an unprepared stand up fighter.

Mind you, I am a believer in Boxing. I just feel that it is silly to think that a SPORT can trump a Martial Art in the hands of a skilled practitioner. There is no "fair" in Martial Arts.

[lefty]

I respect you and I generally enjoy reading your posts on this forum, but this is terribly ignorant. Yes, being a powerful athletic guy will help, but there's no way in hell it's more important than skill.


Your friend must be an absolutely abysmal grappler. Granted, yes, anyone can grab and arm and twist, but any semi-decent submission grappler should a) be able to avoid having someone with no experience lock him up, and b) be able to counter any sloppy submission attempts with a submission or a sweep of his own.

Also, if he was even a remotely competent grappler it should be difficult for you to hold him down even if you outweighed him. The fact that he outweighed you (by 25kg?!) and you could still hold him under you says to me that he has precisely zero serious grappling experience.

When I weighed 75kgs as a shiny new blue belt I could hold down guys who outweighed me upwards of 20kg. If they did manage to explode out I'd be on my way to a submission before they could reset themselves.

I don't usually hold my mate down, the occasion I was talking about he didn't want his arm to break so he just gave up. If I do try to keep him down it isn't by holding him it's by moving around keeping him off balance all the time by dragging him in different directions using his weight against him. I feel it's just my innate balance, strength and reflexes that allow me to do that against whoever I'm wrestling with so that's why I based my views off that. I'm genuinely interested now in wrestling against somebody who is skilled. How do you guys get taught skills?

[lefty]

I am not really making an assumption. I think it is more you having the assumption that the "idea of how to wrestle" will actually trump being skilled in wrestling. As any Boxer knows, one shot is all it takes. You don't "assume" you can take a punch just like you don't assume "If I had to? I could wrestle."

With all due respect, your friend may not be that good. Also, your friend hasn't bitten you or twisted your flesh. I went into classes with guys who trained BJJ. I was in MONSTER shape and could muscle most of the White belts and got a bit cocky. The teacher threw me in with a small blue belt and I muscled him ONCE and actually didn't have a solid choke that I think I could have "finished" him with. After that? It was choke and arm bar city (on me). Mind you I was on top the whole time too.

Not to knock your friend. A random skilled grappler? My guess you will be toast fairly quickly. Especially if he can feint you into believing you are in a fist fight. Just like pressure crushes even the gamest Boxing newbie, the pressure of an intent grappler will most likely smash an unprepared stand up fighter.

Mind you, I am a believer in Boxing. I just feel that it is silly to think that a SPORT can trump a Martial Art in the hands of a skilled practitioner. There is no "fair" in Martial Arts.

Fair call. To be honest most of the people I've come across who call themselves 'Martial Artists' are soft, unathletic people who believe a real fight plays out like a movie scene.

[bald_head_slick]

Interesting... thanks for the responses guys. I've found that it's the ability to reposition your body quicker than the other guy and maintain balance that makes the difference in a wrestle, I've always been able to get bigger guys on their back as long as I can remember (keeping them there is a bit more difficult). The only UFC guy that I've seen and thought "This guy is good" is GSP and he does just that, always balanced and in the best position even when on the offensive. So you guys reckon BJJ guys are the hardest to wrestle with? How about classical olympic style wrestlers? Might head down to a place and have a go with somebody experienced so I know what you guys are talking about :good

Not harder, just different. If you are strong, fit, and athletic? I think you have a better chance of "powering" the wrestlers out versus the BJJ guys who are all about "finessing" their way to winning verses more physically dominant opponents.

I have met BJJ guys who's whole game is based on "losing" their way into "winning", i.e., winning off of their back. The natural reaction of a grappling newb once he has "dominance" is to pull back arms outstretched to get distance... game over.

You don't see it now due to the elevation of MMA practitioners, but watch the old UFC fights when Royce dominated. Candy from babies!

[bald_head_slick]

Fair call. To be honest most of the people I've come across who call themselves 'Martial Artists' are soft, unathletic people who believe a real fight plays out like a movie scene.

I agree.

Go to a REAL Brazilian owned BJJ studio. Those guys are studs who grapple. I grappled "at weight" and it was a "little brother" beat down. :lol:

[lefty]

I agree.

Go to a REAL Brazilian owned BJJ studio. Those guys are studs who grapple. I grappled "at weight" and it was a "little brother" beat down. :lol:

Alright, thanks mate. Let's see how I go :lol:

[Primate]

Fair call. To be honest most of the people I've come across who call themselves 'Martial Artists' are soft, unathletic people who believe a real fight plays out like a movie scene.
You and me both. It's worth a good laugh.
It's why I like grappling so much, you can train at or near 100% against a live and fully resisting opponent, and you know exactly what everything feels like when it happens (whether it be choking someone or being choked, or having you limbs twisted at inhuman angles, or doing the twisting yourself).
It removes the theoretical aspects present in most martial arts.

I'm genuinely interested now in wrestling against somebody who is skilled. How do you guys get taught skills?
Same way a boxer does. Drilling and sparring.

[ChrisKim47]

Move in when they try to throw a kick. Feint so their kicks are off balance and shitty.

[vonLPC]

"I'm genuinely interested now in wrestling against somebody who is skilled. How do you guys get taught skills?"

Hey Lefty

My experience is in most MMA schools you will find a few collegiate level wrestlers who can teach wrestling fundamentals. Like anything else, some perform the skills better than they can teach them. As primate said, it's a lot of repetition and drilling. Where quality wrestlers are miles ahead is in what is called "chain" wrestling, meaning that they transition from one takedown to the next to the next. This is kinda like a boxer stepping off to various angles, then pivoting to a new angle, and so forth. An inexperienced boxer may parry the first shot, but not the second and third.

On the flip side, most MMA schools do not have many classically trained boxers. They would embrace having a boxer such as yourself to learn from. You'll have to let us know how it goes.

[Thomas!!]

wrasslin is gay

[vonLPC]

wrasslin is gay

Jiu jitsu is gayest!

[Primate]

It's only gay if the balls touch.

[chin in the air]

A frienf of mine trains in MMA...its a constant pain in the arse to try and stay away from takedowns.

I have found a quick downward elbow to the collarbone whilst sprawling always helps. Or simply trying to palm their head away in a different direction.

I dunno, its hard to put into words. The above techniques have worked before and other times made me look like a buffoon.

A question of timing perhaps ?!?!

[ChrisKim47]

Takedowns can be tough to defend. You just gotta maintain distance so he never has the chance in the first place. As far as the technical side goes, you have to sprawl and throw an underhook or wizzer depending on if he shoots inside or outside. Its really all about balance honestly. And the only way you get balance is by experience.

And yes Jiu jitsu is the gayest martial art I have ever seen. You never win a dam fight on your back seriously wat the fuk is that shit. Jiu jitsu is just a short cut to learning how to grapple.

[death]

Best strategy for a boxer to fight an mma fighter? Get schooled in grappling, wrestling, submissions, and kickboxing, then try again. mma has an extreme variety of dimensions to it compared to boxing. There are so many ways to take an opponent out, you just never know what's going to happen. I think the discipline required for both boxing, and mma are equally demanding though.

[Leonius]

Use all that roadwork to your advantage and run away?!?