Who would have beat Ezzard Charles at LHW?

[McGrain]

He's my defitine #1 but that doesn't make him invinicible. Who would you pick to get him at this weight?

I'd nominate Roy Jones and Slapsie Maxie.

[JohnThomas1]

I like Spinks chances and i think Foster would be interesting. Jones is a chance against anyone but over 15 it might be tough. A real longshot i think would make an interesting fight is Qawi. Charles didn't mind mixing it up at times and Qawi is a very difficult target with fantastic countering of right hands.

[mcvey]

He's my defitine #1 but that doesn't make him invinicible. Who would you pick to get him at this weight?

I'd nominate Roy Jones and Slapsie Maxie.
Possibles,Loughran,Tunney,Conn,Foster has a punchers chance ,but Charles took Moore and Satterfields shots. Spinks would be an awkward guy for any LH to overcome.I tend to think it would be one of the boxers ,like the three IrishAmericans I mentioned,the wild card is Langford,Charles was a beautiful boxer from what we know of Sam he was a "puncher ,boxer",who liked to "come for you",and he had serious power,Id make that one a toss- up,only other possibilty I see is Harold Johnson,but he was a bit too cautious to outpoint Ezzard,who allways beat his "master " Moore.
I pick Tunney,faster more mobile just as good,if not better defensively,and probably more durable.Nearly forgot the joker in the pack ,Harry Greb,he would give Charles hell,but since Tunney mastered him,[eventually],I think Charles at 175, might too.

[BoppaZoo]

Id say Roy Jones would have a really good chance aswell.

[China_hand_Joe]

Anyone world class with a workrate beats the somewhat lazy Charles.

[Woller]

Dare I say: Floyd Patterson

Woller

[Pat_Lowe]

I like Spinks chances and i think Foster would be interesting. Jones is a chance against anyone but over 15 it might be tough. A real longshot i think would make an interesting fight is Qawi. Charles didn't mind mixing it up at times and Qawi is a very difficult target with fantastic countering of right hands.

Why do you say Jones over 15 would struggle? I personally think Charles would win but I don't see why Jones would be at a disadvantage in a 15 rounder, he never struggled with conditioning until way later in his career against Tarver. I have no doubt he would do fine in 15 rounders.

[JohnThomas1]

Why do you say Jones over 15 would struggle? I personally think Charles would win but I don't see why Jones would be at a disadvantage in a 15 rounder, he never struggled with conditioning until way later in his career against Tarver. I have no doubt he would do fine in 15 rounders.

Nothing to do with conditioning Pat, it's just that 15 rounds is a longer time to survive than 10 or 12. I see Charles as the aggressor, and i think he has the power to take Jones out. The longer the fight goes the more chance he is going to catch Jones with something very meaningful. He could whack Charles, and i think he retained his power well enough to still be a big stoppage danger in the late rounds. 15 is a long time against one of the greatest fighters in history, who also has the possible power to stop you. Just a hunch mate. Maybe Charles could stay close to or even ahead of Jones over 10, but it would take some doing for anyone. Maybe Charles is just plain too good too, it's a hard one.

[ironchamp]

Roy Jones Jr. (I'd make Roy Jones a favorite)

Michael Spinks (50/50 awkward fighter,, good power, good chin)

Bob Foster (Charles's fight with Satterfield and Marciano shows that you need more than a great punch to beat Charles, but I give Foster a chance nonetheless)

[janitor]

Anybody on my top 20 light heavyweights list might do it on a given day.

[McGrain]

Anybody on my top 20 light heavyweights list might do it on a given day.


Yes.

But all things being equal, preperation, neutral officals etc., who would you be picking to beat him on fight night?

[Minotauro]

I give Patterson the best chance then Langford.

[janitor]

Yes.

But all things being equal, preperation, neutral officals etc., who would you be picking to beat him on fight night?

God might have a good chance with the right fight plan.

I think 50/50 is as good a chance as anybody would have against Charles at 175.

[McGrain]

God might have a good chance with the right fight plan.

I think 50/50 is as good a chance as anybody would have against Charles at 175.

I'm surprised that you don't pick Langford. I really expected you to.

What is it about Charles, specifically, that you think reigns in Langford's superior punching?

[McGrain]

Spinks has the best chance in my view.


You think Jones could get the job done? How do you see Jones-Charles going?

[McGrain]

Here's the thing Sweet Pea. I consider Charles a rhtyme based boxer, possibly incorrectly. I think if you break his rythym you can outpoint him if you are quick and brave.

I think that Jones is the type of guy who can break another fighters rythym without sacrificing his own (fighting in spurts, coming in and out, hitting without being hit even against the Cobra).

What do you think?


EDIT: I rate Charles above Jones and think he would beat more great fighters than Jones, who would beat a lot of great fighters.

[McGrain]

I think Jones would be favored over Charles SLIGHTLY, but that Charles is very capable of KO'ing him, which is I guess why I've favored him in the past.


This is about as I see it.

I get quite into these fantasy fights - Louis/Tyson, Burley/Robinson, Liston/Hollyfield, I bet Charles-Jones would be as good as any of them, never really thought about it before.

[janitor]

I'm surprised that you don't pick Langford. I really expected you to.

What is it about Charles, specifically, that you think reigns in Langford's superior punching?

Charles was just a complete box of tricks. He could do everything in boxing and do it well. Whether is was a run or trade type fight he could adapt.

My guess is that Langford could wear him down with a body attack and finish him with a Walcott style sneak punch. I am just not sure that he could do it consistently. If he fights Charles three times he is going to drop one.

[McGrain]

Charles was just a complete box of tricks. He could do everything in boxing and do it well. Whether is was a run or trade type fight he could adapt.

My guess is that Langford could wear him down with a body attack and finish him with a Walcott style sneak punch. I am just not sure that he could do it consistently. If he fights Charles three times he is going to drop one.


I think it's one of these fights where I would pick Charles for the run up and then buckle and switch to Langford during the ring walk :lol:

[janitor]

I think it's one of these fights where I would pick Charles for the run up and then buckle and switch to Langford during the ring walk :lol:

That is my considerd position.

[PowerPuncher]

Perhaps the LHW versions of Patterson, Dempsey (supposedly weighed 175 but used weights to fight for the HW title), Marciano, Schmelling, Mike Moorer.

Not all would win but all would stand a good chance

[dmt]

oh god. Dempsey weighed 180 lb for Willard and put weights after that. To think that Dempsey could easily make light-heavy limit is ridicoulus, he couldn't have.

[Holmes' Jab]

Charles is my #1 LHW but I think a few have a fair chance of defeating him head to head, though it wouldn't be easy of course.

I'd say maybe Jones Jr, Tunney and Spinks (perhaps Holyfield). Foster has that outside punchers chance. :good

[ThinBlack]

I'm thinking Spinks, Foster, and possibly Tunney. Greb, Jones Jr, and very slim chance, Galindez and Conteh.

[lufcrazy]

Tunney I think.

Jones has a chance against any man between mw and lhw

[Flea Man]

I think Jones could do him. In and out without Ezzard being able to time his bombs.

Jones is the H2H monster you pull out when you're looking for someone to beat a H2H monster :deal

[choklab]

I hear a lot about Charles being a light heavyweight. Charles only ever featured in the light heavyweight rankings for two years 1946-1947, before his 3 year absence during the war charles was always less than 169lb. so much like floyd patterson ezzard was a LH for only a very short time.

Even by 1947 charles was fighting more heavyweights than Light heavtweights. of the 12 times he fought in 1947 only 4 of the opponents Ezzard faced scaled within the light heavyweight limit when he fought them - the rest all being heavyweights.

charles peaked in 1948 as a heavyweight. ezzard may have beat great LH's bivins, marshal,maxim and moore but as a lightheavyweight IN 1947 charles was also edged by HW elmer ray and almost knocked out by LH fitzie fitzpatrick. I would take the 1948 charles over any 175pounder but of course ezzard was a HW by then.

[Pachilles]

Billy Conn from the little ive seen is as well rounded as Ezzard Charles(from the little ive seen). They both look good at everything.

The best(and a great) available comparison is to watch Louis v Conn I and Louis v Charles, as they both fought against him with very similar styles.(It should be noted that Conn fought a better, sharper version of Louis, whislt being near the end of his careeer himself). Both fought on the backfoot with the jab until Louis could reach mid-range, then they'd move into close range and fuck him up on the inside for short periods before quickly getting on the move again.

Though i'm not sure how they'd approach each other. Charles has the athletic edge, in speed and power. Conn has the edge in accuracy and workrate and a sligh edge in footwork and positioning. If Charles purely boxed, his faster, better and longer jab could beat Conn to the punch, if Conn was also playing a chess match. But Conn could also maul very well and put the pressure on, and Charles was known to turn wreckless at times...and this is where i think Conn has the edge with his positioning and accurate counter-comvinations. The power of Charles is somewhat nullified as an advantage by Conn's solid chin.

I think Conn gets busted up, but wins it on workrate.

[robert ungurean]

Of the fighters Ive seen.
Tunney
Conn
Jones jr.
Could all win on any given night.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Langford and Roy Jones Jr.......and maybe Conn;

[Sonny Carson]

Jones Jr maybe and Tunney. Everyone else get's beat. I mean the man beat Archie Moore four times, four times man.

[the cobra]

Three times, man.

[SuzieQ49]

Wow what happened to DMT?

[Longhhorn71]

Id say Roy Jones would have a really good chance aswell.

Jones' chin vs the Charles of pre-Sam Baroudi fight, would result in an 8 rd KO by Charles.

[darling dame]

Patterson,Loughran,Tunney,Old-timer Jack Delaney who could punch I just see his style trouble for Ezz, Also Foster hes a fave of mine to beat just about any LH or at least a good fight.

[bodhi]

I wouldn´t make anyone the fav, are few are 50/50 or come close but none would be the fav.

[lufcrazy]

I hear a lot about Charles being a light heavyweight. Charles only ever featured in the light heavyweight rankings for two years 1946-1947, before his 3 year absence during the war charles was always less than 169lb. so much like floyd patterson ezzard was a LH for only a very short time.

Even by 1947 charles was fighting more heavyweights than Light heavtweights. of the 12 times he fought in 1947 only 4 of the opponents Ezzard faced scaled within the light heavyweight limit when he fought them - the rest all being heavyweights.

charles peaked in 1948 as a heavyweight. ezzard may have beat great LH's bivins, marshal,maxim and moore but as a lightheavyweight IN 1947 charles was also edged by HW elmer ray and almost knocked out by LH fitzie fitzpatrick. I would take the 1948 charles over any 175pounder but of course ezzard was a HW by then.

46-49 he was undoubtedly the best lhw in the world cutting a swathe through the division despite never being granted a title shot.

It can't really be questioned to be honest.

[DonBoxer]

I would have RJJ and Tunney as favorite against him.

There are a few others who could have an even chance with him.

[lufcrazy]

I genuinely don't think i'd favour a lhw over the 93-99 roy jones. He might well be my h2h king the more I consider it :think

[lora]

Lonnie Bennett

[DonBoxer]

I genuinely don't think i'd favour a lhw over the 93-99 roy jones. He might well be my h2h king the more I consider it :think

I struggle to pick anyone over the best versions of a 168 and 175 Jones.

[bodhi]

I genuinely don't think i'd favour a lhw over the 93-99 roy jones. He might well be my h2h king the more I consider it :think

Who did he fight to give you that impression? :think

[lufcrazy]

Who did he fight to give you that impression? :think

Well everyone he fought in that time frame, I thought I made that implicit?

Film is readily available and he looks fantastic on it.

I don't think he's less than 50% against anyone.

[TheGreatA]

Who did he fight to give you that impression? :think

Vinny Pazienza, Richard Frazier, Bryant Brannon.

[bodhi]

Well everyone he fought in that time frame, I thought I made that implicit?

Film is readily available and he looks fantastic on it.

I don't think he's less than 50% against anyone.

And you think he could pull the same stuff as he did with those guys with Charles, Tunney, Moore, Conn, Foster and so on? Seriously?

[lufcrazy]

And you think he could pull the same stuff as he did with those guys with Charles, Tunney, Moore, Conn, Foster and so on? Seriously?

From one extreme to the other, seriously? This time you put words in my mouth that I never said nor intended to say.

I said I wouldn't put him less than 50% with anyone.

I never said he'd be as dominant, as he was in his era, against the likes of those you mentioned.

[bodhi]

From one extreme to the other, seriously? This time you put words in my mouth that I never said nor intended to say.

I said I wouldn't put him less than 50% with anyone.

I never said he'd be as dominant, as he was in his era, against the likes of those you mentioned.

I didn´t say he wuld be dominant, with "stuff" I meant getting away with his flaws. His speed and reflexes let him get away with a lots of stuff against inferior opposition that superior opposition would punish him for and with his not so great chin and given that all of the top lhws pack a good punch this spells doom against any of them. Jones was great, no doubt, but he was a class behind the real top guys. Perhaps, he wouldn´t have been if he would have come along in a tougher era but, well, he didn´t.

[Senya13]

Charles had so many flaws in his technical skills, and with his not so great chin, and given that Jones has a good punch, this spells doom for him.

[red cobra]

Maybe only Tunney could have beat him..I think Loughran would have caused him problems. The fight of Charles that lingers in my mind the most...that maybe defined his essential fighting heart, courage, toughness and guts was the first Marciano fight. I think Charles, even though past his prime, going metal to metal with a peak Marciano is one of the most impressive losing performances ever..and just subtract a few years and put him in the lightheavy class..aside from possibly Tunney, I don't see any lightheavy beating Ezzard.

[DonBoxer]

I didn´t say he wuld be dominant, with "stuff" I meant getting away with his flaws. His speed and reflexes let him get away with a lots of stuff against inferior opposition that superior opposition would punish him for and with his not so great chin and given that all of the top lhws pack a good punch this spells doom against any of them. Jones was great, no doubt, but he was a class behind the real top guys. Perhaps, he wouldn´t have been if he would have come along in a tougher era but, well, he didn´t.

In the same respect i dont think any of the fighters you mentioned have ever faced anyone with the cocktail of attributes that Jones had.

[Senya13]

What does Tunney have that makes him special to beat Charles?

[bodhi]

In the same respect i dont think any of the fighters you mentioned have ever faced anyone with the cocktail of attributes that Jones had.

Perhaps but they all faced fighters of at least as high a calibre as Jones and proved themselves against them. Jones certainly is capable beating some of them but to say he is at least 50/50 against anyone at lhw 175 and that he is the h2h "king" there is ridiculous when you see who he actually was fighting. It´s the same as saying Naseem Hamed of 1996 to 1998 would be the h2h king at fw. Everybody would think this is ridiculous. Same here.

[slip&counter]

Charles was perhaps the best light heavy ever, but i would give Mike Spinks a good chance of beating him. I certainly don't think Spinks would lose 3 times out of 3. With his herky, jerky somewhat goofy and awkward style, deceptiveness and sneaky punching. I would give him the best chance. I think Charles was better than the other greats at 175.

[lufcrazy]

I didn´t say he wuld be dominant, with "stuff" I meant getting away with his flaws. His speed and reflexes let him get away with a lots of stuff against inferior opposition that superior opposition would punish him for and with his not so great chin and given that all of the top lhws pack a good punch this spells doom against any of them. Jones was great, no doubt, but he was a class behind the real top guys. Perhaps, he wouldn´t have been if he would have come along in a tougher era but, well, he didn´t.

As the quickest lhw in history you could also ask whether the other's could pull their "stuff" on jones.

The chin is a non issue, completely. Had jones retired after beating tarver (already noticeably past prime by this point) noone would question his chin at all.

A bunch of knockout losses whilst shot is certainly no indication of his prime punch resistance.

Saying he's a class behind is a bit short sighted imo, from 98-03 he was the daddy of the division. That's 5 years. Few in history can rival a 5 year spell as lhw king imo.

[Boilermaker]

As the quickest lhw in history you could also ask whether the other's could pull their "stuff" on jones.

The chin is a non issue, completely. Had jones retired after beating tarver (already noticeably past prime by this point) noone would question his chin at all.

A bunch of knockout losses whilst shot is certainly no indication of his prime punch resistance.

Saying he's a class behind is a bit short sighted imo, from 98-03 he was the daddy of the division. That's 5 years. Few in history can rival a 5 year spell as lhw king imo.

Assuming that Jones really is the quickest ( which is not the fait acompli that it is usually assumed), I would say that it is almost certain that other ATGs will do their thing at least to some degree. Look at Ali the quickest heavyweight ever (or at least very close to it) and by a decent way. Yet, if he didnt have an all time great chin and recovery powers, he would have struggled to make top 5 of his own generation. I dont see How Jones can remain untouched in a deeper division talentwise, when ali couldnt.

If Jones wants to come out on top against Ezzard Charles and many other atgs, he will have to go to hell and back to do it. I dont think he can do it.

[Sister Sledge]

Jones was brilliant against inferior opposition, and that's all I can say about him. Prime Jimmy Bivens was tough for Charles to handle. I give spinks a good chance, as well as Jonh Henry Lewis, who was great in another good era of LH's. Tunney also has a great shot of beating Charles.

[bodhi]

As the quickest lhw in history you could also ask whether the other's could pull their "stuff" on jones.

The chin is a non issue, completely. Had jones retired after beating tarver (already noticeably past prime by this point) noone would question his chin at all.

A bunch of knockout losses whilst shot is certainly no indication of his prime punch resistance.

Saying he's a class behind is a bit short sighted imo, from 98-03 he was the daddy of the division. That's 5 years. Few in history can rival a 5 year spell as lhw king imo.

None of them was as sloppy as Jones. Even in his prime he liked to lure guys in while having his back in the ropes. He might be able to do that with a Hall or Brannon or Frazier (not Joe :lol:) but if he trys that against for example against Charles it spells doom. You think those guys couldn´t time him jumping in with a left-hook and a low right hand? His opposition simply wasn´t good enough to do that thus he could get away with this stuff. Those guys are good enough to do it.

And yes, the chin is an issue. You think his chin became suddenly worse with age? Nope, it was always there this weakness. The difference is, nobody was good enough to exploit this which has a lot to do with his at best mediocre competition. Not his fault but the lhw division of his time was pretty bad and the only true test was avoided by him. So, yes his losses past prime mean something ´cause they tell us something about his chin we didn´t know before.

Yes, he is a class behind those guys - perhaps not Bob Foster. Why? Simple, he never proved himself as much as they did. Jones wasn´t lhw king until he beat Gonzalez, you might be on a mission to rewrite history, doesn´t mean histoy changes though.

[lufcrazy]

None of them was as sloppy as Jones. Even in his prime he liked to lure guys in while having his back in the ropes. He might be able to do that with a Hall or Brannon or Frazier (not Joe :lol:) but if he trys that against for example against Charles it spells doom. You think those guys couldn´t time him jumping in with a left-hook and a low right hand? His opposition simply wasn´t good enough to do that thus he could get away with this stuff. Those guys are good enough to do it.

And yes, the chin is an issue. You think his chin became suddenly worse with age? Nope, it was always there this weakness. The difference is, nobody was good enough to exploit this which has a lot to do with his at best mediocre competition. Not his fault but the lhw division of his time was pretty bad and the only true test was avoided by him. So, yes his losses past prime mean something ´cause they tell us something about his chin we didn´t know before.

Yes, he is a class behind those guys - perhaps not Bob Foster. Why? Simple, he never proved himself as much as they did. Jones wasn´t lhw king until he beat Gonzalez, you might be on a mission to rewrite history, doesn´t mean histoy changes though.

Well who's to say he'd use those tactics against greater fighters? He is quick enough to win by boring potshots against almost anyone his size.

His durability, stamina, conditioning and reflexes all got worse with age especially after moving back down. Non issue.

You recognise him as king from that fight. I recognise him from 98 and i'm giving my opinion. History does not need to be rewritten; the data is there and it is down to us fans to interpret it as we see fit.

As is said, in my opinion very few in that division spent 5 years as the best fighter there. To say he's a class below is nonsensical to be honest.

[bodhi]

Well who's to say he'd use those tactics against greater fighters? He is quick enough to win by boring potshots against almost anyone his size.

Who says he doesn´t? We don´t know. We have to go by what we know and there he is doing it.


His durability, stamina, conditioning and reflexes all got worse with age especially after moving back down. Non issue.

I disagree. With age his speed and reflexes got slower which didn´t let him get away with stuff he did before and thus exposed flaws and weaknesses that would have been brought to light earlier if he would have fought better opposition - largely not his fault, you can only fight what´s there to fight.


You recognise him as king from that fight. I recognise him from 98 and i'm giving my opinion. History does not need to be rewritten; the data is there and it is down to us fans to interpret it as we see fit.

:lol: which means I can twist it around as much as I want to get what I want. Great.


As is said, in my opinion very few in that division spent 5 years as the best fighter there. To say he's a class below is nonsensical to be honest.

Well, neither did Jones. And you have to put it into context. It´s easier to stay on top of a division if you fight the Brannons and Feaziers of the world instead of the Delaneys, Loughrans, Grebs or Mooes, Bivins, Marshalls and Maxims for example, don´t you think?

[lufcrazy]

Assuming that Jones really is the quickest ( which is not the fait acompli that it is usually assumed), I would say that it is almost certain that other ATGs will do their thing at least to some degree. Look at Ali the quickest heavyweight ever (or at least very close to it) and by a decent way. Yet, if he didnt have an all time great chin and recovery powers, he would have struggled to make top 5 of his own generation. I dont see How Jones can remain untouched in a deeper division talentwise, when ali couldnt.

If Jones wants to come out on top against Ezzard Charles and many other atgs, he will have to go to hell and back to do it. I dont think he can do it.

And to some extent I agree. Why I said I wouldn't put him less than 50% against any of the other greats.

[lufcrazy]

Who says he doesn´t? We don´t know. We have to go by what we know and there he is doing it.



I disagree. With age his speed and reflexes got slower which didn´t let him get away with stuff he did before and thus exposed flaws and weaknesses that would have been brought to light earlier if he would have fought better opposition - largely not his fault, you can only fight what´s there to fight.



:lol: which means I can twist it around as much as I want to get what I want. Great.



Well, neither did Jones. And you have to put it into context. It´s easier to stay on top of a division if you fight the Brannons and Feaziers of the world instead of the Delaneys, Loughrans, Grebs or Mooes, Bivins, Marshalls and Maxims for example, don´t you think?

Exactly we don't know :good so I say noone is above 50% against him, you disagree, but none of us know :good

If the opposition of his era is not good enough to expose a mystical flaw, you think might or might not exist, i'd assume the flaw doesn't exist.

You can do whatever you'd like; i'd just ask you can rationalise and remain consistent in the interest of good debating :good

Jones fought in his era. Simple as. I don't believe in holding one era above another. Do other greats from the division have better resumes? Sure, but you have to be great to rule a division regardless of those competing in it.

Overall I can't say how I rate him as i'm going through a mass overhaul of my rankings (up to levinsky at the moment in terms of resume analysis so i'm a few week away from jones) I can safely say, however, jones is the man I pick as h2h don in the division.

[bodhi]

Exactly we don't know :good so I say noone is above 50% against him, you disagree, but none of us know :good

Sure, we don´t, so we have to go by what was actually happening. :thumbsup


If the opposition of his era is not good enough to expose a mystical flaw, you think might or might not exist, i'd assume the flaw doesn't exist.

We saw those flaws/weaknesses once he slowed, it´s not as they aren´t there to see for everybody. :lol:


You can do whatever you'd like; i'd just ask you can rationalise and remain consistent in the interest of good debating :good

A pity :mad:


Jones fought in his era. Simple as. I don't believe in holding one era above another. Do other greats from the division have better resumes? Sure, but you have to be great to rule a division regardless of those competing in it.

I agree with all of that. But I think that there is a difference at the very top of the divisions in different eras. Or are you saying a division with Jones and DM as top dogs is as good as one with Tunney, Loughran, Greb, Delaney and Rosenbloom? I hope not.


Overall I can't say how I rate him as i'm going through a mass overhaul of my rankings (up to levinsky at the moment in terms of resume analysis so i'm a few week away from jones) I can safely say, however, jones is the man I pick as h2h don in the division.

Picking someone who never proved himself over a certain level of fighters over fighters who did is not very rational. :nono:nono That´s all I´m saying. Look a few posts further, giving him a good chance against anyone, I´d agree, he has. But saying he is at least 50/50 and the h2h king ... that´s over the top.

[Vockerman]

Well it looks like I'm pretty much alone here but for my money the stylistic nightmare for Charles is Harry Greb. A swarmer that is iron chinned and has a high workrate is very hard to outpoint... It would be an ugly fight and Charles will have a hard time looking good enough to win ENOUGH rounds. This is just my opinion, I could be wrong. But some of you will have to convince me of that.:hey

[lufcrazy]

Sure, we don´t, so we have to go by what was actually happening. :thumbsup



We saw those flaws/weaknesses once he slowed, it´s not as they aren´t there to see for everybody. :lol:



A pity :mad:



I agree with all of that. But I think that there is a difference at the very top of the divisions in different eras. Or are you saying a division with Jones and DM as top dogs is as good as one with Tunney, Loughran, Greb, Delaney and Rosenbloom? I hope not.



Picking someone who never proved himself over a certain level of fighters over fighters who did is not very rational. :nono:nono That´s all I´m saying. Look a few posts further, giving him a good chance against anyone, I´d agree, he has. But saying he is at least 50/50 and the h2h king ... that´s over the top.

Yes and what happened was a domination of an era :good

You say flaw I say age.

No I believe only a great can rule an era :-)

Nah he's sensational and i'm not putting him an underdog v anyone

[bodhi]

Yes and what happened was a domination of an era :good

You say flaw I say age.

No I believe only a great can rule an era :-)

Nah he's sensational and i'm not putting him an underdog v anyone

Well, this starts turning in circles ... bottom line: I am right, you are wrong. :D

;)

[lufcrazy]

Well, this starts turning in circles ... bottom line: I am right, you are wrong. :D

;)

Are you saying you've discovered time machine technology and have actually pitted all these greats together in a huge round robin tournament! :ibutt :ibutt

[bodhi]

Are you saying you've discovered time machine technology and have actually pitted all these greats together in a huge round robin tournament! :ibutt :ibutt

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


:hey

[he grant]

Not many that's for sure ... maybe Tunney or Langford. He pretty much edged Moore every time and that's a hell of an accomplishment ... Foster is always so dangerous but I don't know ...

[frankwornank]

Any LH in history would have ahard time with Bob Foster. He was 6' 3" and a tremendous puncher. I see him and Charles being a very close match.

[1899sharkey]

Langford and Tunney.

[GPater11093]

I'd favour Charles heavily to beat Jones.

[Bill Butcher]

Gene Tunney only lost once, to one of the greatest p4p fighters (some say greatest) in boxing history & he returned the favour multiple times, bad footage aside, by all accounts Tunney was an incredible boxer & he would be my pick to beat Charles... not saying I WOULD pick him but he would have the best chance IMO.

[Sonny Carson]

I'd favour Charles heavily to beat Jones.
Roy is hard to handle with his hand speed and power, but Charles was very fast at light heavy and may have been a harder puncher than Jones and beat better fighters. I can see why anybody would favor Charles over Jones.

[GPater11093]

Roy is hard to handle with his hand speed and power, but Charles was very fast at light heavy and may have been a harder puncher than Jones and beat better fighters. I can see why anybody would favor Charles over Jones.

Aye, I also think stylistically Charles has the best of it.

Basically just leaves Spinks as the best chance IMO, and even then Id favour Charles

[burt bienstock]

Well it looks like I'm pretty much alone here but for my money the stylistic nightmare for Charles is Harry Greb. A swarmer that is iron chinned and has a high workrate is very hard to outpoint... It would be an ugly fight and Charles will have a hard time looking good enough to win ENOUGH rounds. This is just my opinion, I could be wrong. But some of you will have to convince me of that.:hey
V, Greb most likely would decision the bigger Ezzard Charles, as Ken Overlin,who was called " the poor man's Harry Greb" beat Ezzard in 1941.
Why not Greb who was much superior to Ken Overlin. Speed kills, and no one equaled the Iron City Express...What fighter in history could fight 35-45 fights a YEAR,for a total of 300 bouts and still maintain his amazing speed and stamina ? Answer NO ONE, but Harry Greb. And the Billy Conn who almost beat the 200lb Joe Louis, had a helluva chance to beat Charles.
And Billy Conn was no Harry Greb, as every Pittsburgh historian claimed...:good

[ripcity]

Roy Jones.

[he grant]

V, Greb most likely would decision the bigger Ezzard Charles, as Ken Overlin,who was called " the poor man's Harry Greb" beat Ezzard in 1941.
Why not Greb who was much superior to Ken Overlin. Speed kills, and no one equaled the Iron City Express...What fighter in history could fight 35-45 fights a YEAR,for a total of 300 bouts and still maintain his amazing speed and stamina ? Answer NO ONE, but Harry Greb. And the Billy Conn who almost beat the 200lb Joe Louis, had a helluva chance to beat Charles.
And Billy Conn was no Harry Greb, as every Pittsburgh historian claimed...:good

I don't know Burt .... Greb had a shot without question but I see Charles as likely to fast, too sharp and too hard hitting at that weight ...

[Bummy Davis]

Tunney,Greb and Conn and possibly Langford but Tunney would have the best ticket

[burt bienstock]

I don't know Burt .... Greb had a shot without question but I see Charles as likely to fast, too sharp and too hard hitting at that weight ...
he, Of course Charles might win. But the more I learn about Greb, the
greater my respect for his accomplishments. Ezzard Charles was amongst the very greatest LHs in history,and weights being equaled ,I have him over Clay/Ali. But do we truly know if a prime Tommy Gibbons, [not the old Gibbons of the Dempsey/Tunney fights] would NOT have beaten Charles ?
No, we don't. Gibbons looks so impressive as a 34 year old fighter destroying Jack Bloomfield on film.! And if a "poor man's Harry Greb", Ken Overlin could beat and draw with Ezzard Charles in 1941,why not the
Real McCoy, Harry Greb?. Very possible...:hi: