How Good Was Fabrice Tiozzo

[KO KIDD]

I'm an American I never saw him fight before so I figured I'd put this on the European Forum where there may be more knowledge. I read a little about him and saw that he was 48-2 and his losses were to the same guy Virgil Hill and were years apart.

He did beat several belt holders and held belts at LHWT and Cruiser

He beat guys like Dariuz M, Branco, Miller, McCallum, and Lucas

How do you rate him?

[FROST]

I saw his fights with Mike McCallum and D. Michalczewski, maybe some other ones that I don't remember too well (like the Hill fights).

He had a very good performance against McCallum. Ok, Tiozzo fought on his home turf, but McCallum is a road warrior, and Tiozzo kept coming against the master boxer McCallum and outworked him. Tiozzo also showed some skills there. People say that McCallum was shot by then, but I can tell that he was still a tough, highly experienced and skilled fighter, even tho he was past his best. He also gave Roy Jones and Toney good fights after that. I remember that fight because of the cut glove incident, something that doesn't happen too often. I'm a big fan of Mike McCallum and he's one of the most underrated fighters from the last 30 years. James Toney said he's the best opponent he's ever faced, putting him even before Roy Jones, and Toney should know. (In my book, Roy Jones was better than McCallum, because he was so freakishly talented, but McCallum was more 'text-book' skilled and durable).

Tiozzo totally destroyed D. Michalczewski in Germany. I remember Tiozzo coming to the ring with only his belt across the waist, all alone, no robe, simple black shorts and a focused look - he did his best Tyson imitation there. To be fair, Michalczewski was shot to pieces and a KO waiting to happen..

[emanuel_augustus]

Hill absolutely blew him up with one punch. Tiozzo was a strong guy but very limited. The McCallum win was his best, but understand that McCallum was nearly 40 years old and way past it at that point.

Tiozzo's Cruiserweight reign wasn't that impressive. Nate Miller really wasn't very good, his defenses were against C-level competition and then lost the title to an ancient Virgil Hill. He came along at a very weak time in the Cruiser division, just before Jirov, Gomez, Nelson, etc.

I do give him credit for melting back down at 175 at an advanced age and winning a world title. I haven't seen any of those fights so can't comment. The one win that is also sorta interesting is his win over a young Eric Lucas. Never saw that one either.

To answer the question, from what I saw Tiozzo was a very good European-level fighter, maybe a B-level world class fighter who was for the most part managed properly and matched with opposition he could handle.

[Fitir]

Tiozzo vs Hill 2 is a good symbol of Tiozzo's career. Hill had won the rematch before the fight. Rumors about Hill's injuries had convinced Tiozzo that the fight would be postponed again. He had been lazy and stupid enough to stop his preparation.
Result : at the weigh-in it was easy to say what would happen , Tiozzo looked completely out of shape. An old Hill KOed a prime Tiozzo in 1 round with a jab, something a prime Hill had been unable to do in 12 rounds against a green Tiozzo.
About a come back : Tiozzo said he wants to fight Huck to prepare for Mormeck...

[NSFW]

Great fighter.

[Fitir]

Tiozzo is a dreamer, he has never been able to manage his career. Huck would annihilate him imo. But would german fans pay to see that ?

[IntentionalButt]

Tiozzo is a dreamer, he has never been able to manage his career. Huck would annihilate him imo. But would german fans pay to see that ?

What, you mean now? :lol:

[bodhi]

I saw his fights with Mike McCallum and D. Michalczewski, maybe some other ones that I don't remember too well (like the Hill fights).

He had a very good performance against McCallum. Ok, Tiozzo fought on his home turf, but McCallum is a road warrior, and Tiozzo kept coming against the master boxer McCallum and outworked him. Tiozzo also showed some skills there. People say that McCallum was shot by then, but I can tell that he was still a tough, highly experienced and skilled fighter, even tho he was past his best. He also gave Roy Jones and Toney good fights after that. I remember that fight because of the cut glove incident, something that doesn't happen too often. I'm a big fan of Mike McCallum and he's one of the most underrated fighters from the last 30 years. James Toney said he's the best opponent he's ever faced, putting him even before Roy Jones, and Toney should know. (In my book, Roy Jones was better than McCallum, because he was so freakishly talented, but McCallum was more 'text-book' skilled and durable).

Tiozzo totally destroyed D. Michalczewski in Germany. I remember Tiozzo coming to the ring with only his belt across the waist, all alone, no robe, simple black shorts and a focused look - he did his best Tyson imitation there. To be fair, Michalczewski was shot to pieces and a KO waiting to happen..

That´s an understatement.

[Fitir]

What, you mean now?

Tiozzo said "seriously" he wanted Huck (he comments Huck's fights on french channel W9 and he says he thinks Huck is good but not so impressive !) Even if they organized Maske vs Hill 2 I don't think german promoter/fans would pay for this joke you're right.

[bodhi]

Tiozzo said "seriously" he wanted Huck (he comments Huck's fights on french channel W9 and he says he thinks Huck is good but not so impressive !) Even if they organized Maske vs Hill 2 I don't think german promoter/fans would pay for this joke you're right.

There´s no ppv in Germany, the fights are for free on TV.

[Fitir]

I know that but guys in the arena pay their tickets !

[Cpt_Vodka]

Hill would ALWAYS have his number. Tiozzo should of fought Mormeck.

[Fitir]

I agree with that. Tiozzo had difficulties against technicians, counterpunchers protected by a superior jab like Hill. That said I think a normal version of Tiozzo would have been decisionned again, not KOed by a jab.

[boxexpert]

he sent michalczewski into retirement and was WBA champ,that says enough.

[Axe]

Hill absolutely blew him up with one punch. Tiozzo was a strong guy but very limited. The McCallum win was his best, but understand that McCallum was nearly 40 years old and way past it at that point.

Tiozzo's Cruiserweight reign wasn't that impressive. Nate Miller really wasn't very good, his defenses were against C-level competition and then lost the title to an ancient Virgil Hill. He came along at a very weak time in the Cruiser division, just before Jirov, Gomez, Nelson, etc.

I do give him credit for melting back down at 175 at an advanced age and winning a world title. I haven't seen any of those fights so can't comment. The one win that is also sorta interesting is his win over a young Eric Lucas. Never saw that one either.

To answer the question, from what I saw Tiozzo was a very good European-level fighter, maybe a B-level world class fighter who was for the most part managed properly and matched with opposition he could handle.

You are calling a two-weight WORLD champ a EUROPEAN-level fighter?

What are you smoking. :patsch

Tiozzo wasn't the most astonishing fighter 175 has ever seen, but he was a solid world champion with good boxing skills, decent chin and a fair bit of pop in his fists.

He was probably the best European LHW behind Michalczewski during the 1990s, even ahead of Henry Maske. He KOed Michalczewski, but that was a shot, coming out of retirement version who had somehow forgotten how to jab.

Prime for prime these two would have had a real war with Michalczewski coming out on top via UD or late stoppage, in my opinion.

Overall Tiozzo was a very good fighter with borderline Hall of Fame talent and resume, but a bit of a dedication problem.

[Fitir]

Tiozzo had some serious weak points at world level. He had a good variety of punches but he never moved well in the ring for example. Against guys like Hill he had problems DM hadn't. DM was a warrior but he could deal with technicians, he was able to cut the ring more effectively and he was far more complete as a boxer. Tiozzo could appear brilliant or seriously limited and he was never dedicated to his sport. What he had was massive natural strength (different from power), it was really something amazing but against a good technician it's useless.
DM came into the ring against the "bear" with no match plan and no footwork. They basically exchanged punches in the middle of the ring and it gave Tiozzo the opportunity to use his strength, it's exactly what he needed to look good.
DM deserves some respect in this defeat. He had still a champ's mentality even if it was clear after 1 round that he had not the tools. He had a chin and a heart, some bloody instant pics show well the punches he had successfully eaten through the fight. I don't know many LHW (including US "stars") who could have stayed so static 6 rounds in front of Tiozzo.

[emanuel_augustus]

You are calling a two-weight WORLD champ a EUROPEAN-level fighter?

What are you smoking. :patsch

Tiozzo wasn't the most astonishing fighter 175 has ever seen, but he was a solid world champion with good boxing skills, decent chin and a fair bit of pop in his fists.

He was probably the best European LHW behind Michalczewski during the 1990s, even ahead of Henry Maske. He KOed Michalczewski, but that was a shot, coming out of retirement version who had somehow forgotten how to jab.

Prime for prime these two would have had a real war with Michalczewski coming out on top via UD or late stoppage, in my opinion.

Overall Tiozzo was a very good fighter with borderline Hall of Fame talent and resume, but a bit of a dedication problem.

Uh, I think you're the one smoking something by saying "borderline hof talent." Tiozzo was not a world championship level fighter despite the fact that he held a belt. I'll give you the good performances against Hill (the first, which was still a loss; we'll overlook the first round ko loss) and Eric Lucas. McCallum was washed up when Tiozzo beat him.

We can talk resume for WBA Cruiserweight world title fights: Nate Miller (a weak champ), Terry Ray (club fighter), Pazquiel (journeyman), Ken Murphy (huh), Vikhor (not good), and oops pounded out by Hill. Not a hall of fame resume by any stretch.

I'm not insulting him by saying "Euro" level fighter, he was a solid pro and one of the best on the Euro level, but was never even talked about really in the world mix even at 175 as a top guy. DM was far better in his prime, as was Maske. I like Tiozzo, but be real when assessing his career.

[Fitir]

Tiozzo is not "euro" level even if he lacks defining fights. French LHW who were euro level at the same time were Sahnoune, Girard, Serrat etc. Tiozzo was far more dangerous but he was lazy and unable to manage his career. With a good promoter and a good team I think he would have had a far better career, Sahnoune, Girard etc. couldn't have done better than they did.
It was not a very good performance against Lucas. OK Tiozzo was bigger and stronger and he won nearly every round but the guy who impressed the crowd was Lucas cause he fought with much heart.
It was clear from that fight that Tiozzo would never be a great champ. After the fight he left the LHW div cause he claimed he was not able to make weight anymore. It was completely false since he was able to make the LHW limit for Branco many years later (making the LHW limit at this stage of his career is probably his best performance in fact)

[emanuel_augustus]

Tiozzo is not "euro" level even if he lacks defining fights. French LHW who were euro level at the same time were Sahnoune, Girard, Serrat etc. Tiozzo was far more dangerous but he was lazy and unable to manage his career. With a good promoter and a good team I think he would have had a far better career, Sahnoune, Girard etc. couldn't have done better than they did.
It was not a very good performance against Lucas. OK Tiozzo was bigger and stronger and he won nearly every round but the guy who impressed the crowd was Lucas cause he fought with much heart.
It was clear from that fight that Tiozzo would never be a great champ. After the fight he left the LHW div cause he claimed he was not able to make weight anymore. It was completely false since he was able to make the LHW limit for Branco many years later (making the LHW limit at this stage of his career is probably his best performance in fact)

You can't evaluate a guy's career based on hypotheticals. "Would have" doesn't cut it. Based on resume, Bruno Girard was actually more of a world level fighter than Tiozzo was.

[Fitir]

Girard has a better resume...it sounds completely incredible when you consider the raw potential of those guys but you're probably right.
Tiozzo's performance for Hill 1 at 23 with 0 experience at euro level was in fact very good. It was just completely stupid at this stage of his career. I don't think many LHW who ended their careers with very good records could have done better in the same conditions.
Compare the management of DM and Tiozzo's careers for example. DM obtained the benefits of a progressive evolution concerning the level of opposition, his first title shot was far to be against a guy like Hill etc. Tiozzo is a perfect example of a bad management but there are many hints of what he could have done. When Axe says "borderline HOF talent" I think he's completely right but it's just my opinion cause in terms of resume it's far to be right I have to agree... That said considering your nickname you could understand what he means.