Tommy Carruthers vs. Georges St. Pierre, who wins?

[Canibus81]

Who would win this fight if you bring back old MMA rules when anything went?

[196osh]

I would take GSP by ass whooping.

[southpaw jab]

Being that GSP is an actual fighter, I would take GSP via murder.

[Canibus81]

Being that GSP is an actual fighter, I would take GSP via murder.

That's why I said with old UFC rules.

[achillesthegreat]

GSP by death.

[achillesthegreat]

Tommy Carruthers has over 30 years experience in the martial arts which includes training in military self-defence techniques (taught to him by his father), Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, wrestling, Karate, boxing, Ving Tsun (four years with Nino Bernardo's clan), Non-Classical Gung Fu and finally Jeet Kune Do. Whilst training in western boxing, Tommy made something of a name for himself and became the subject of several tempting offers to turn professional. "But still to Tommy, even though he seemed to excel in boxing, it was not JKD." (taken from Fighters Magazine, July 1997).

Frustrated with an absence of Jeet Kune Do clubs in his area, Tommy began to train by himself, pushing himself to the limits and along the way reading and assimilating absolutely everything that was around on JKD. He attended various JKD seminars in Europe but remained unimpressed. "I felt that what they were teaching would not work on the street, and it is in that arena that the truth comes out". Eventually he came across an article on Gary Dill in an American Kung Fu magazine. Everything in the article he agreed with so he took the plunge and phoned him up. Gary Dill was a student of the late James Lee, one of Bruce's own students. Taking the plunge he phoned him up and the upshot was that he was invited to America by Dill to train as a JKD instructor on an intensive course."

Later he came to the attention of Jesse R. Glover, Bruce Lee's first student and assistant-instructor. Glover then recommended Tommy to one of Bruce Lee's best and most highly respected students of his Oakland era, Howard Williams, as well as Bruce's last private student and protegé Ted Wong. It was also Mr Wong who awarded Tommy with an instructor ranking and eventually, Tommy was formally recognised by the JKD Nucleus (Bruce Lee Educational Foundation) at a formal dinner party with over 200 guests from around the Jeet Kune Do scene. In more recent years, Tommy has continued to train and build ties with many respected JKD practitioners from around the world such as Tim Tackett and original Bruce Lee student, Bob Bremer.

Over the years, Tommy Carruthers has acquired a reputation as being a very practical martial artist whose grueling training schedules alone would put most other athletes (from any sporting background) to shame. Tommy's affinity to simplicity and realism are almost certainly the result of being brought up in the rough streets of Glasgow's East End, where employment levels are low and violent crime rates are high.

In 2002 Tommy was invited by the Chinese Boxing Association Switzerland to come to Geneva to give a public demo of his talent live on stage at the SWISS EXPO. He has also recently appeared on several biographic Bruce Lee DVDs within a special feature called "In the footsteps of the Dragon", narrated by Jesse Glover.

What others have said:

"When Tommy is on he reminds me of Bruce when I knew him. The first time that I saw him I told him that he punches like Bruce. Tommy is also a very powerful kicker. He has Bruce like speed and power and is more flexible than Bruce was.

If Tommy landed a full force strike in the center of a person's chest there is a chance that their heart would stop. He transfers an amazing amount of shock with his strikes. He has taken Bruce's ideas and turned them into a functional reality." - Jesse Glover (Bruce Lee's first student)

************************************************

"I've not met anybody on par with Bruce Lee except for Tommy Carruthers, who is better than Lee in some respects.

Let me say that Tommy is Bruce Lee #2, hands down. This is the baddest man around. I don't give out props lightly, so take note. There's a new martial star, and his name is Tommy Carruthers. If you are looking for a standard of excellence, look no further than this dude." - George Tan (Bruce Lee historian/film producer)

************************************************


"....the fastest hands I have ever seen!" - David Peterson (direct student of Ving Tsun legend Wong Shun Leung)

************************************************

"Tommy is a great JKD'er. But most important his students were also very good. This is important, because not all great martial artists can teach. Tommy can." - Tim Tackett, (JKD instructor of the Wednesday Night Group of Redlands, California)

[Canibus81]

Tommy Carruthers has over 30 years experience in the martial arts which includes training in military self-defence techniques (taught to him by his father), Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, wrestling, Karate, boxing, Ving Tsun (four years with Nino Bernardo's clan), Non-Classical Gung Fu and finally Jeet Kune Do. Whilst training in western boxing, Tommy made something of a name for himself and became the subject of several tempting offers to turn professional. "But still to Tommy, even though he seemed to excel in boxing, it was not JKD." (taken from Fighters Magazine, July 1997).

Frustrated with an absence of Jeet Kune Do clubs in his area, Tommy began to train by himself, pushing himself to the limits and along the way reading and assimilating absolutely everything that was around on JKD. He attended various JKD seminars in Europe but remained unimpressed. "I felt that what they were teaching would not work on the street, and it is in that arena that the truth comes out". Eventually he came across an article on Gary Dill in an American Kung Fu magazine. Everything in the article he agreed with so he took the plunge and phoned him up. Gary Dill was a student of the late James Lee, one of Bruce's own students. Taking the plunge he phoned him up and the upshot was that he was invited to America by Dill to train as a JKD instructor on an intensive course."

Later he came to the attention of Jesse R. Glover, Bruce Lee's first student and assistant-instructor. Glover then recommended Tommy to one of Bruce Lee's best and most highly respected students of his Oakland era, Howard Williams, as well as Bruce's last private student and protegé Ted Wong. It was also Mr Wong who awarded Tommy with an instructor ranking and eventually, Tommy was formally recognised by the JKD Nucleus (Bruce Lee Educational Foundation) at a formal dinner party with over 200 guests from around the Jeet Kune Do scene. In more recent years, Tommy has continued to train and build ties with many respected JKD practitioners from around the world such as Tim Tackett and original Bruce Lee student, Bob Bremer.

Over the years, Tommy Carruthers has acquired a reputation as being a very practical martial artist whose grueling training schedules alone would put most other athletes (from any sporting background) to shame. Tommy's affinity to simplicity and realism are almost certainly the result of being brought up in the rough streets of Glasgow's East End, where employment levels are low and violent crime rates are high.

In 2002 Tommy was invited by the Chinese Boxing Association Switzerland to come to Geneva to give a public demo of his talent live on stage at the SWISS EXPO. He has also recently appeared on several biographic Bruce Lee DVDs within a special feature called "In the footsteps of the Dragon", narrated by Jesse Glover.

What others have said:

"When Tommy is on he reminds me of Bruce when I knew him. The first time that I saw him I told him that he punches like Bruce. Tommy is also a very powerful kicker. He has Bruce like speed and power and is more flexible than Bruce was.

If Tommy landed a full force strike in the center of a person's chest there is a chance that their heart would stop. He transfers an amazing amount of shock with his strikes. He has taken Bruce's ideas and turned them into a functional reality." - Jesse Glover (Bruce Lee's first student)

************************************************

"I've not met anybody on par with Bruce Lee except for Tommy Carruthers, who is better than Lee in some respects.

Let me say that Tommy is Bruce Lee #2, hands down. This is the baddest man around. I don't give out props lightly, so take note. There's a new martial star, and his name is Tommy Carruthers. If you are looking for a standard of excellence, look no further than this dude." - George Tan (Bruce Lee historian/film producer)

************************************************


"....the fastest hands I have ever seen!" - David Peterson (direct student of Ving Tsun legend Wong Shun Leung)

************************************************

"Tommy is a great JKD'er. But most important his students were also very good. This is important, because not all great martial artists can teach. Tommy can." - Tim Tackett, (JKD instructor of the Wednesday Night Group of Redlands, California)

Yup I knew all about it, glad to see that you know as well, that's why I posted it.

[Canibus81]

[Only registered and activated users can see links] here you go

[PNoyFightFanUSN]

Kimbo could take him.

[Canibus81]

bump

[sugarngold]

Who would win this fight if you bring back old MMA rules when anything went?

You have to understand that in JKD - the primary attacks would be fingerjabs to the eyes or kicks to the groin - none of which would be allowed under any sort of regulated combat system - even the old no-holds barred rules. So Carruthers wouldn't fare very well at all. I would like his chances more in an anything goes situation - but as a professional fighter he is not in GSP's league.

[Harman]

You have to understand that in JKD - the primary attacks would be fingerjabs to the eyes or kicks to the groin - none of which would be allowed under any sort of regulated combat system - even the old no-holds barred rules. So Carruthers wouldn't fare very well at all. I would like his chances more in an anything goes situation - but as a professional fighter he is not in GSP's league.

under a fight with no rules this Carruthers wourld kill every MMA Fighter!

[196osh]

under a fight with no rules this Carruthers wourld kill every MMA Fighter!

:rofl:rofl:rofl

Idiot children

[One Punch KO]

under a fight with no rules this Carruthers wourld kill every MMA Fighter!

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Harman]

:rofl:rofl:rofl

Idiot children

ja ja MMA-Fanboy..

MMA Fighters are the masters of the univers! right?

A Krav Maga Elite soldat would own your Cage Fighter also like other military spezialist. MMA is sport nothing more.

[196osh]

ja ja MMA-Fanboy..

MMA Fighters are the masters of the univers! right?

A Krav Maga Elite soldat would own your Cage Fighter also like other military spezialist. MMA is sport nothing more.

:rofl

You're dumb as hell. These elite guys should have cleaned up back in the day when anything went. Oh wait...

[achillesthegreat]

I think people would be suprised how ineffective JKD/Wing Chun moves would be against a trained fighter like GSP.

Dirty moves are fair game to all so it's not an advantage against a boxer, MMA etc In fact a fighter could just make dirty moves hurt more i.e. a Overeem knee or a Cro Cop kick to the balls.

I also think people are overlooking the standard of grappling that MMA is creating. These guys are becoming wrestlers and submission artists in one BUT also including striking arts on the ground. So even if someone knows how to grapple, they don't know how to incorporate strikes effectively let alone defend against them. Even if JKD/Krav Maga fighters poised a standing threat (which I don't think they do), as soon as GSP takes it to the floor and starts kneeing them in the head and elbowing them in the face they will soon see the errors of their ways.

[enquirer]

If this carruthers is soo good he should challenge an MMA fighter to a match,or at the very least demonstrate PRACTICALLY that he can win a vale tudo fight.
Its laughable that these JKD type guys think they can fight in the street,without actually fighting at all.
Every time i see some sort of 'judo' guy in with an MMA guy,even with just no holds barred,the judo guy starts crying from the first punch to the hooter....
And we wont get into the 'one inch punch',heart stopping,energy manipulation brigade'...:lol:
These guys are just childish show-offs...
Tomato can,palooka,garbage.....

[chimba]

ja ja MMA-Fanboy..

MMA Fighters are the masters of the univers! right?

A Krav Maga Elite soldat would own your Cage Fighter also like other military spezialist. MMA is sport nothing more.

While its true its a sports competition where athletes are able to train and optimizes their bodies for a competition with rules. It is still a form of combat (hand to hand)

It is not Martial Art as originally intended (Art of War or military science). Martial art is hungry, weak, wounded in the trenches with 10 infantry men about to rush you.

You cant prepare for something like that and may I say that in real martial art, your best chance is 50/50.

Anyway, this is apples and oranges, you cant compare.

[enquirer]

Is this tommy related to that geezer in the simpsons? :D

[Canibus81]

You have to understand that in JKD - the primary attacks would be fingerjabs to the eyes or kicks to the groin - none of which would be allowed under any sort of regulated combat system - even the old no-holds barred rules. So Carruthers wouldn't fare very well at all. I would like his chances more in an anything goes situation - but as a professional fighter he is not in GSP's league.

JKD has check kicks from savat which is Illegal, and Joint manipilation which is Illegal. So you can't just say finger jabs to the eye and groin. And JKD is an MMA style. And St. Pierre would have to take a chance in getting caught trying to shoot in. OLD UFC rules I'd take Carruthers. Even if they don't allow eye strikes or groin strikes.

[Canibus81]

If this carruthers is soo good he should challenge an MMA fighter to a match,or at the very least demonstrate PRACTICALLY that he can win a vale tudo fight.
Its laughable that these JKD type guys think they can fight in the street,without actually fighting at all.
Every time i see some sort of 'judo' guy in with an MMA guy,even with just no holds barred,the judo guy starts crying from the first punch to the hooter....
And we wont get into the 'one inch punch',heart stopping,energy manipulation brigade'...:lol:
These guys are just childish show-offs...
Tomato can,palooka,garbage.....

And a Judo guy isn't a JKD guy, 2 different things, Maybe you should educate yourself on what JKD really is before you talk. And JKD already has Judo in it.

[196osh]

JKD has check kicks from savat which is Illegal, and Joint manipilation which is Illegal. So you can't just say finger jabs to the eye and groin. And JKD is an MMA style. And St. Pierre would have to take a chance in getting caught trying to shoot in. OLD UFC rules I'd take Carruthers. Even if they don't allow eye strikes or groin strikes.

:patsch

So a guy who has never fought anybody on camera in his entire life is being chosen over a guy who has loads of mma fights and is a proven wordl class athlete on the basis of Small Joint Manipualation and a kick which AFAIK is not actually illegal at all?

[Canibus81]

:patsch

So a guy who has never fought anybody on camera in his entire life is being chosen over a guy who has loads of mma fights and is a proven wordl class athlete on the basis of Small Joint Manipualation and a kick which AFAIK is not actually illegal at all?

YUp because tornament fighting has rules and it isn't the same as a NHB fight that's number 1. And number 2, your fighting ability has nothing to do with how many tornaments you won(which only looks good on paper), rather more on your techinque and physical ability. And Carruthers has plenty of that. By your logic, than Tank Abbott can beat Carruthers too, since he's had more MMA fights.

[enquirer]

I was using 'judo' in a generic sense punchy.
You also stated judo is used in JKD,so dont be fuckin pedantic.
Bottom line,let mister carruthers win ONE fight under the cameras.

[Canibus81]

I was using 'judo' in a generic sense punchy.
You also stated judo is used in JKD,so dont be fuckin pedantic.
Bottom line,let mister carruthers win ONE fight under the cameras.

I'll tell you what how bout you go challenge him and tell him that he's never fought a day in his life in front of a camera, and bring some mma guys with you. After it's all said and done you and your mma buddies can phone from the ER room.

[196osh]

YUp because tornament fighting has rules and it isn't the same as a NHB fight that's number 1. And number 2, your fighting ability has nothing to do with how many tornaments you won(which only looks good on paper), rather more on your techinque and physical ability. And Carruthers has plenty of that. By your logic, than Tank Abbott can beat Carruthers too, since he's had more MMA fights.

Duh, proven world class athelte did you miss that?

Fact you have no idea how good Carruthers is. You have never seen him fight NHB and nobody else has seen him fight NHB never mind against a guy who has masterd a bunch of proven effecitive techniques.

How is Tommy going to stop GSP from taking him down? Think an eye gouge is going to stop a double leg?

In the old days of actual NHB fighting the guys cleaning up were wrestlers and BJJ guys not some guy who has masterd the heart explode jab in the throat technique.

[196osh]

I'll tell you what how bout you go challenge him and tell him that he's never fought a day in his life in front of a camera, and bring some mma guys with you. After it's all said and done you and your mma buddies can phone from the ER room.

As little substance as you can get. You are speaking with no proof and no argument other than ones that have been disproved in actual combat.

[Messiah]

Notice how in Carruthers' videos he is demonstrating against a static target. His speed is undeniable but how would he implement his techniques when his opponent is trying to tear his limbs off?
JKD, Wing Chun LOOK very good and impressive, but the truth is that they are very ineffective in combat situations. I do believe that Carruthers would easily beat your average man on the street but his style and technique would be of no use in the cage facing an opponent like GSP who can beat the living shit out of you from any position.

[Messiah]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Essentially, this is the same difference as Carruthers and GSP.
Farnworths skills are amazing to watch but they would never work in a rela football match, that is why Ronaldo is the best player in the world and not John Farnworth.
Carruthers skills are also amazing to watch but it just wouldn't work in a ring or cage. Simple. IN MY OPINION.

[Messiah]

whoops. They didn't work. Anyone wanna embed these videos for me?
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

EDIT:- Ok, so they embed themselves! LOL. I'm still learning!

[don owens]

JKD IS BULL SHIT. BRUCE LEE was an exceptional athlete. not a figher. he wore panties in enter the dragon and self promoted a lot but did not fight. doe Carruthers wear panties also. if so maybe he is Lee number two. good golden gloves boxers, parking lot brawlers, mma guys would beat their asses. that is why they like to do demos. shit im gonna vomit and die someday from all this worship of Lee. it is the stupidest shit in this planet.

[don owens]

check with comfag he probably owns the panties Lee wore in ETD. probably bought them at auction and keeps them in a trophy case, when he isnt wearing them.

[don owens]

meant to say gungfag, so solly,

[Nosbor]

I am verbally submitting to this thread! :yep Soooo, in a way Carruthers just made me tap. I guess that makes him 1-0.

[Vale-Feye]

YUp because tornament fighting has rules and it isn't the same as a NHB fight that's number 1. And number 2, your fighting ability has nothing to do with how many tornaments you won(which only looks good on paper), rather more on your techinque and physical ability. And Carruthers has plenty of that. By your logic, than Tank Abbott can beat Carruthers too, since he's had more MMA fights.

How has he proven his athletic ability? Zab Judah probably looks like superman in sparring, but you put him against world class fighters and other factors come in to play, and this is a guy who is a proven world class athlete. It takes a little bit more than messing about doing death touches and spinning heel kicks to validate your ability as a fighter. If he had any interest in testing himself, he would have pro fights, simple.

[achillesthegreat]

It's hilarious how Carruthers, Lee etc are given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to intangiables which are more important in combat then any other sport. Stamina, heart, chin etc Fighters spend years proving these traits.

There isn't a single thing Carruthers can do that GSP doesn't have the talent to do but if we'd never seen him fight we wouldn't know his chin was suspect.

[Harman]

:patsch

So a guy who has never fought anybody on camera in his entire life is being chosen over a guy who has loads of mma fights and is a proven wordl class athlete on the basis of Small Joint Manipualation and a kick which AFAIK is not actually illegal at all?

stupid MMA-Freak! You say a MMA Fighter is the favorit because Carruthers never fight on a video camera? I bet you never seen a silverback gorilla fight on camera.. also is mma fighter a stronger fighter like a silverback?

what a bullshit! there are differents between a ruled MMA Fight or a fight for life or death.

[196osh]

stupid MMA-Freak! You say a MMA Fighter is the favorit because Carruthers never fight on a video camera? I bet you never seen a silverback gorilla fight on camera.. also is mma fighter a stronger fighter like a silverback?

what a bullshit! there are differents between a ruled MMA Fight or a fight for life or death.

Carruthers is not a silverback gorrila you idiot he is a man. Therefore has similar traits to other men. He has never displayed skills in an actual combat situation ever that you could show me.

GSP fights for a living and I have hours and hours of video that I can show of GSP fighting full contact using a vast array of skills picking some guy wh has not shown this at all is folly and should not be even considered.

[Diomedes]

You know, if I was Carruthers or one of the other mystical masters that are occasionally revered in a similar light to Bruce Lee, I'd compete and beat the best MMA fighters just to be able to say "Look what I can do with one arm tied behind my back!".

I mean, JKD and so forth contain a variety of techniques both legal and illegal under MMA rules. But are JKD punches the most effective? Stance and footwork? Kicks? Various grappling moves? Even if we can't test eye gouges or whatnot, there's plenty that should be testable. And it seems like a no-lose situation. Lose an MMA match and you can use the excuse that you weren't able to use your most deadly techniques. Win it, and you get awesome bragging rights because you won using just a limited portion of your arsenal.

Yet none of them do. Curious.

[enquirer]

And that should be the final post in this thread.
Diomedes has broken it down,now lets see the film of carruthers beating up an MMa guy...
Time to put up or shut up,cannibus and JKD fans...

[codeman99998]

This is a stupid thread. In any era of MMA rules GSP is a favorite over everyone his size or smaller. The fact that his flashy, basically, kata is so impressive to some people just shows that they have learned NOTHING about fighting from MMA.

MMA SHOULD HAVE educated the world in a very real way as to what is required to actually be effective in a no rules or limited rules situation. It is ridiculous that people can still be so ignorant.

[nipplefloss]

stupid MMA-Freak! You say a MMA Fighter is the favorit because Carruthers never fight on a video camera? I bet you never seen a silverback gorilla fight on camera.. also is mma fighter a stronger fighter like a silverback?

what a bullshit! there are differents between a ruled MMA Fight or a fight for life or death.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Now where's the video of Tommy Carruthers doing anything to anyone that isn't a willing demonstration target?

[nfc90210]

Every time i see some sort of 'judo' guy in with an MMA guy,even with just no holds barred,the judo guy starts crying from the first punch to the hooter....

Judo is far from an ineffective art. For instance, Fedor was a former high level judo competitor.


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Canibus81]

[Only registered and activated users can see links] Look under the New York one under charted schools. That's my Jeet Kune Do instructor. I'm almost past a basic level right now and thru myself in the fire and all of the techinques work. Infact my instructor use to get challenges all the time when he had his dojo, which he's getting ready to open back up and he's made everyone who came in there that challenged him leave with something, sometimes black eyes, or not knots on their head. Most of them had good ground games and claimed they trained for yrs. They all have different opinions now.

Now as far as Jeet kune do goes, it's a very complicated style to learn because you have to have good cordination for everything else to flow(which most fighters don't know how to do and that includes UFC fighters) and it's a complete mma style. Most people want quick results so they won't invest there time trying to learn because of that reason. As for the matchup, Tornament fighting isn't the same as street fighting and that was the whole point I was trying to make, I guess some of you don't understand because most of you guys get to caught up in rankings of belts system(which doesn't mean jack, cause I've seen white belts take out black belts) or how many tornaments a certain fighter's won, which also doesn't mean your great fighter. Your just great in that one style. And like I said you fight the way you train and if you only train for tornaments, than your only gonna fight that way.

[achillesthegreat]

Bruce Lee was well-known in the martial arts community in the US of the Mid-60s, and easy to find. Where were the Gracies or other "most real fighters" back then? People waited decades to make sure he was dead before they got the balls to run their mouths.
As for Tommy Carruthers - Tommy is street-wise, so he would maybe just use a chair and smash it on your head if you challenge him in his own school. But having been a bouncer in Glasgow he knows about the real world, and doesn't confuse it with swimming trunks-athletes in the Conan-cage. As for his attributes I was standing in front of him. What can I say? You guys critizising Tommy will never has his speed or power.

But just keep talking, while Tommy keeps walking....

I understand that the Gracies were mixing it on the Vale Tudo scene which as I understand is what "real fighters" would do.

[196osh]

Bruce Lee was well-known in the martial arts community in the US of the Mid-60s, and easy to find. Where were the Gracies or other "most real fighters" back then? People waited decades to make sure he was dead before they got the balls to run their mouths.
As for Tommy Carruthers - Tommy is street-wise, so he would maybe just use a chair and smash it on your head if you challenge him in his own school. But having been a bouncer in Glasgow he knows about the real world, and doesn't confuse it with swimming trunks-athletes in the Conan-cage. As for his attributes I was standing in front of him. What can I say? You guys critizising Tommy will never has his speed or power.

But just keep talking, while Tommy keeps walking....


Tommy Carthuers has done sweet fuck all to suggest GSP would not double leg the fuck out of him pass mount and procede to destroy him in about 8 seconds.

Bouncer in Glasgow? So beating up a random drunk guy or two on sauchiehall street doesnt mean you could beat the mma fighter at 170lbs. :patsch


Now kindly fuck off.

[chimba]

I understand that the Gracies were mixing it on the Vale Tudo scene which as I understand is what "real fighters" would do.

Nah hes got a point. Same point I made before. Where were all these guys badmouthing Bruce when he was alive when he was the biggest MA guy? You have to remember the times as well, those were racist, intolerant times. If I was some hard ass, Ill call the little chinese guy out.

Im not here to defend Bruce but how come no one challenged him then?? You know, just to prove (typical human instinct). The Gracies just about challenged everyone back then.

[Nosbor]

This thread is finally starting to deliver.:lol::lol::lol:

[PIRA]

Nah hes got a point. Same point I made before. Where were all these guys badmouthing Bruce when he was alive when he was the biggest MA guy? You have to remember the times as well, those were racist, intolerant times. If I was some hard ass, Ill call the little chinese guy out.

Im not here to defend Bruce but how come no one challenged him then?? You know, just to prove (typical human instinct). The Gracies just about challenged everyone back then.


LOL - Gene LeBell, the Godfather of grappling, already challenged and beat Bruce.

[196osh]

Some guys just doesn't understand, some do. Fighting is a social activity, injuring people not. After Bruce k.o.'d the Black Belt named Uechi in Seattle they figured in hospital the guy's skull was cracked around the eye socket. Within 11 seconds. That's what reality is all about - getting away or in conflict with the law, not a fucking fighting game to prove to Pay-TV watchers how tough you are, even if it is extreme sports.
If you want to see Tommy play games watch all the making of Nokia's game "One" on YouTube and then zap back to GSP rolling on the floor and pulling punches with gloved hands.

You have refuted no points of mine. So he fractured some guys orbital? So? Are you that retarded? Shit happens all the time.

Now GET TO FUCK NOOB. Much obliged.

[achillesthegreat]

Nah hes got a point. Same point I made before. Where were all these guys badmouthing Bruce when he was alive when he was the biggest MA guy? You have to remember the times as well, those were racist, intolerant times. If I was some hard ass, Ill call the little chinese guy out.

Im not here to defend Bruce but how come no one challenged him then?? You know, just to prove (typical human instinct). The Gracies just about challenged everyone back then.

We'll have to agree to disagree as I don't think he has a point. I don't think it's a real fighters job to call out media stars. If someone creates a new martial art i.e. JKD, I think it's their job to go out and prove it's worth.

[196osh]

You are a retard. Eye socket: [Only registered and activated users can see links](anatomy).

I could not give a shit about talking to Jesse Glover, I am talking to you.

My point is that you have no proof that Caruthers can fight at a high level against somebody who can fight at a high level.

[achillesthegreat]

My point is that you have no proof that Caruthers can fight at a high level against somebody who can fight at a high level.

If you are debating with anyone who doesn't understand or agree with this from the get go then there is no point in furthering the discussion.

[196osh]

If you are debating with anyone who doesn't understand or agree with this from the get go then there is no point in furthering the discussion.

Yeah good idea man. Should have not fed the troll.

[196osh]

Get a life, boy and don't waste time with King Kong vs. Godzilla-fantasies.

:rofl:rofl

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[196osh]

Browsing for the internet for gay porn eh?

:lol:

[Stoo]

ColDam, just give up please. You've been owned from page 1 and its getting embarassing now

[196osh]

For the lover of muscle men in pants I'm going out of my way. :smoke

:rofl:rofl

Dude, just stop. Ya fruitcake.

[Stoo]

Don't want to take away your illusions.
Please do mate......

[Stoo]

Better to stay where you're coming from.
What the hell you on about now?

[PIRA]

Without a doubt Tommy Caruthers would be cringing that anyone claiming to be associated with him would be carrying on a Collateraldamage has.

And I will see you one Tommy Caruthers and raise you a Lenny McPherson.

The Guv would have eaten Tommy for breakfast.

[Beebs]

ja ja MMA-Fanboy..

MMA Fighters are the masters of the univers! right?

A Krav Maga Elite soldat would own your Cage Fighter also like other military spezialist. MMA is sport nothing more.

Lots of active duty military personal train and even fight MMA; Most use MMA concepts as the core of the hand to hand combat training.

So if by real fight you mean something that would take place during a military operation, ie with knifes or improvised weapons, then obviously the person with the experience of that type of environment plus a good level of basic skills would be favored.

If by "real fight" you mean 2 unarmed fighters one on one, just without MMA rules or a cage/ring, the MMA fighter is going to absolutely dominate.

It's not like military personal aren't allowed to train or fight MMA, plenty do, the most successful being Brian Stann, a limited but powerful fighter.

Conversely, many great MMA fighters are ex military. Fedor, Sergei Kharitanov, Wanderlei Silva, Randy Couture, many more. Do you not think Fedor, with his Russian Army training would not be completely comfortable in any fighting situation?

Prime example would be Sergei vs Aleksander; Sergei had military training supplemented with MMA, Aleks was a criminal who was much more skillful and well rounded in his training compared to Sergei who mostly focused on what was taught to him as a paratrooper, mostly boxing and some basic Judo/Sambo.

[Beebs]

JKD has check kicks from savat which is Illegal, and Joint manipilation which is Illegal. So you can't just say finger jabs to the eye and groin. And JKD is an MMA style. And St. Pierre would have to take a chance in getting caught trying to shoot in. OLD UFC rules I'd take Carruthers. Even if they don't allow eye strikes or groin strikes.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Legal, used, not that effective.

If you think that is going to stop GSP from taking down and mauling anybody, let alone somebody who is not a proven fighter, let alone a proven fighter capable of stopping takedowns nobody can, you seem a bit ill informed.

[Beebs]

YUp because tornament fighting has rules and it isn't the same as a NHB fight that's number 1. And number 2, your fighting ability has nothing to do with how many tornaments you won(which only looks good on paper), rather more on your techinque and physical ability. And Carruthers has plenty of that. By your logic, than Tank Abbott can beat Carruthers too, since he's had more MMA fights.

How can you prove technique and ability at something, in this case NHB fighting, without ever having done that thing?

For the record a prime Tank Abbott is no fucking joke, and I would lay good odds to him beating 90% of the pre UFC 1 martial arts "experts."

He could wrestle quite effectively if he had to.

[Beebs]

Bruce Lee was well-known in the martial arts community in the US of the Mid-60s, and easy to find. Where were the Gracies or other "most real fighters" back then? People waited decades to make sure he was dead before they got the balls to run their mouths.
As for Tommy Carruthers - Tommy is street-wise, so he would maybe just use a chair and smash it on your head if you challenge him in his own school. But having been a bouncer in Glasgow he knows about the real world, and doesn't confuse it with swimming trunks-athletes in the Conan-cage. As for his attributes I was standing in front of him. What can I say? You guys critizising Tommy will never have his speed or power.

But just keep talking, while Tommy keeps walking....

Where were the Gracies? They were proving they were fighters by, wait for it, FIGHTING, and winning at that. Where was Bruce? He was more than welcome to join, or hell, fight anybody, but he never did. If he wanted to learn from boxing and wrestling, plenty of boxers and wrestlers would have obliged. Since he claims to have learned Judo it is pretty surprising that he never, you know, tried to compete at any form of Judo.

Hell of a cha-cha dancer though.

Oh, this guy was street wise though? Well shit, I guess the Gracies never learned about the streets in FUCKING BRAZIL. I guess a guy like CroCop was too afraid of the streets, that's why he joined a anti-terror police force.

Walking? Great, how about fighting? Oh wait, he was a bouncer (the point of which is to avoid fights, for any bouncer with a brain rather than proving how small your cock is by being a bouncer so you can fight). I'm sure Croatian kickboxing legend / organized crime figurehead Branko Ciatic was just too scared to be a big bad tough bouncer in big bad tough Scotland.

[Beebs]

Nah hes got a point. Same point I made before. Where were all these guys badmouthing Bruce when he was alive when he was the biggest MA guy? You have to remember the times as well, those were racist, intolerant times. If I was some hard ass, Ill call the little chinese guy out.

Im not here to defend Bruce but how come no one challenged him then?? You know, just to prove (typical human instinct). The Gracies just about challenged everyone back then.

Where were all those guys?

They were fighting, while some Actor was....acting.

[Canibus81]

How can you prove technique and ability at something, in this case NHB fighting, without ever having done that thing?

For the record a prime Tank Abbott is no fucking joke, and I would lay good odds to him beating 90% of the pre UFC 1 martial arts "experts."

He could wrestle quite effectively if he had to.


Tank Abbott is fucking joke and you are too. And all pre Martial arts experts were one dimensional. And so was Gracie, who would also get destroyed by Bruce, who not only was eons faster, harder hitting but a hell of a lot more versatile. Graie got fuckin pounded out by Matt Hughes who's nothing more than a wrestler but he had more tools han Gracie did, that's because Graice never evolved.

And had Bruce Lee competed in shit bag tornaments, not only wouldn't be the well known Legend he is but he wouldn't gotten his point across systems and styles. And Tornament fighting is not the same as street fighting, and neither UFC(which also has rules).

So far mytructor has made 3 different guys with your atitude apologize after he showed them that Jeet Kune Do does,work which is an complete mma style and not only that all the techniques flow into one. Eventually I'll be doing the same to guys like you and I'll love every second of it because people like you think you really know and than find out you've been very misinformed.

[Canibus81]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

here goes a seen with Bruce and Lebell. And Lebell never beat up Bruce Lee and they never even trained together which is also a lie. Bruce Lee also had Judo in Jeet Kune Do.

[Canibus81]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

One of Bruce former Students and he breaks down the whole Tornament BS that you guys keep locking on too.

[Nosbor]

:patsch:patsch:patsch...

[Beebs]

Tank Abbott is fucking joke and you are too. And all pre Martial arts experts were one dimensional. And so was Gracie, who would also get destroyed by Bruce, who not only was eons faster, harder hitting but a hell of a lot more versatile. Graie got fuckin pounded out by Matt Hughes who's nothing more than a wrestler but he had more tools han Gracie did, that's because Graice never evolved.

And had Bruce Lee competed in shit bag tornaments, not only wouldn't be the well known Legend he is but he wouldn't gotten his point across systems and styles. And Tornament fighting is not the same as street fighting, and neither UFC(which also has rules).

So far mytructor has made 3 different guys with your atitude apologize after he showed them that Jeet Kune Do does,work which is an complete mma style and not only that all the techniques flow into one. Eventually I'll be doing the same to guys like you and I'll love every second of it because people like you think you really know and than find out you've been very misinformed.

A very old Gracie got beat by a very fucking good Hughes, who absolutely out grappled several BJJ blackbelts.

Get over it, Gracies have fought, Bruce did fuck all.

Never fought, not a fighter.

Never fucked, still a virgin.

Bruce Lee is the equivlant of the ultimate masturbation champion.

If you think Tank is a joke, he is as a modern MMA fighter, but pre UFC, he would beat any JKD teacher in the country, easily. Very Easily.

[Beebs]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

One of Bruce former Students and he breaks down the whole Tornament BS that you guys keep locking on too.

So another jerkoff without the balls to actually fight defending the other.

I can beat the shit out of chinese dudes outside of bars too, sign me a fucking movie deal.

Also the jerkoff has never heard of Vale Tudo.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Just look at those rules.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Rules are clearly stopping that guy. Man, Wand would be so fucked without rules right? I mean a 130 lb cha cha dancer might poke his eye. :lol:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
The man in the black gi is bruce lee.

[196osh]

Honest to fuck. People don't have a clue.

[Nosbor]

Actually; I am kind of curious to hear how he will put down Igor...

[Beebs]

Also Canibus, you seem to be backtracking on your bullshit
JKD has check kicks from savat which is Illegal,
Because Brandon Vera, Keith Jardine, and I seem to think
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about.

[PIRA]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

here goes a seen with Bruce and Lebell. And Lebell never beat up Bruce Lee and they never even trained together which is also a lie. Bruce Lee also had Judo in Jeet Kune Do.


:rofl

You are a tool. I wonder why JKD has Judo in it - because Bruce was schooled by a judo-ka!

[Canibus81]

Also Canibus, you seem to be backtracking on your bullshit

Because Brandon Vera, Keith Jardine, and I seem to think
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about.


Your bias, extremely bias. Your a case of a guy I would call an educated dummy. You know some things but you use no logic and you probably can't.

And Gracie would of loss to any version of matt hughes because Gracie was one dimensional and is why most of the gracie's were losing all the time because they weren't evolving.(sakaraba submitted 3 gracies in a row) And Tank Abbott would get destroyed by any JKD expert. Tank Abbot couldn't even fuckin beat KIMBO SLICE FOR CHRIST SAKES. And he's fuckin bum and has no skills at all, period. And you can't base his talent off of nothing except the bums he beat up on the streets.

And I do have a clue of what i'm talkin about. UFC and most MMA orginations have rules and restrictions. And it isn't the samething if they took the rules out,(most of the guys that are champion wouldn't be anymore) so until you understand that there's a big difference in the 2, there's no point of me argueing with you no more because your bissfully unaware of your ignorance.

As for your hatred for Bruce Lee, that ain't my problem, that's something you have to deal with.

[Canibus81]

:rofl

You are a tool. I wonder why JKD has Judo in it - because Bruce was schooled by a judo-ka!


Only difference is I have a mind of my own and I use it, you don't.

[Canibus81]

So another jerkoff without the balls to actually fight defending the other.

I can beat the shit out of chinese dudes outside of bars too, sign me a fucking movie deal.

Also the jerkoff has never heard of Vale Tudo.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Just look at those rules.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Rules are clearly stopping that guy. Man, Wand would be so fucked without rules right? I mean a 130 lb cha cha dancer might poke his eye. :lol:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
The man in the black gi is bruce lee.


Yup I've heard of it. And you posted videos to make a point that I already made to try and prove a point that Bruce Lee can't fight or Jeet Kune Do doesn't work because some Vale Tudo event's with a couple guys who entered the the competition and suck on top of that. I've seen boxers get beat up by guys who have no tornament experience at all. And you probably think cause one fighter that represents a certain style gets beat up that everybody else would too. But that's only with people who have a very limited way of thinking, and you definetly do.

[Beebs]

Your bias, extremely bias. Your a case of a guy I would call an educated dummy. You know some things but you use no logic and you probably can't.
Just backtracking again I see.

You are just ignorant, you make claims that are absolutely false. You don't know what you are talking about, why should anybody listen to you?
JKD has check kicks from savat which is Illegal,
Because Brandon Vera, Keith Jardine, and I seem to think
[Only registered and activated users can see links]


And Gracie would of loss to any version of matt hughes because Gracie was one dimensional and is why most of the gracie's were losing all the time because they weren't evolving.(sakaraba submitted 3 gracies in a row) And Tank Abbott would get destroyed by any JKD expert. Tank Abbot couldn't even fuckin beat KIMBO SLICE FOR CHRIST SAKES. And he's fuckin bum and has no skills at all, period. And you can't base his talent off of nothing except the bums he beat up on the streets.

And I do have a clue of what i'm talkin about. UFC and most MMA orginations have rules and restrictions. And it isn't the samething if they took the rules out,(most of the guys that are champion wouldn't be anymore) so until you understand that there's a big difference in the 2, there's no point of me argueing with you no more because your bissfully unaware of your ignorance.

As for your hatred for Bruce Lee, that ain't my problem, that's something you have to deal with.

A prime Hughes would beat the Gracies because of his experience fighting BJJ fighters. Hughes with just wrestling would almost surely loose. Either way, Matt Hughes is a fucking legend, losing to him is no shame, he would damn sure destroy Lee.

A prime Tank, not the shell that lost to Kimbo. Why didn't any JKD fighter step up and fight like a prime tank did? He would have either outwrestled them or just KO'd them. He was no joke.

Look at Tank vs Taktarov or Frye. He lost, but he showed he is no joke.

Most MMA orgs do have rules, but old Vale Tudo organizations did not. Any JKD fighter could have tried, none did, or if they did none did anything.

The fighters like Igor, Wand, Pele, or going even further back like Valdemar Santana, Carlson Gracie, Maeda, and countless others didn't need rules, and they would have handled Lee no problem.

Take your hero worship elsewhere, fighting is the realm of reality, not fanboy love.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Those are real fighters, real men, who fought with no rules before Lee ever danced his first Cha Cha or filmed his first movie. They cross trained, they walked the walk, and their walk was better than any of Bruce's talk. Their training was proven, Lee's is not.

[Canibus81]

Just backtracking again I see.

You are just ignorant, you make claims that are absolutely false. You don't know what you are talking about, why should anybody listen to you?

Because Brandon Vera, Keith Jardine, and I seem to think
[Only registered and activated users can see links]



A prime Hughes would beat the Gracies because of his experience fighting BJJ fighters. Hughes with just wrestling would almost surely loose. Either way, Matt Hughes is a fucking legend, losing to him is no shame, he would damn sure destroy Lee.

A prime Tank, not the shell that lost to Kimbo. Why didn't any JKD fighter step up and fight like a prime tank did? He would have either outwrestled them or just KO'd them. He was no joke.

Look at Tank vs Taktarov or Frye. He lost, but he showed he is no joke.

Most MMA orgs do have rules, but old Vale Tudo organizations did not. Any JKD fighter could have tried, none did, or if they did none did anything.

The fighters like Igor, Wand, Pele, or going even further back like Valdemar Santana, Carlson Gracie, Maeda, and countless others didn't need rules, and they would have handled Lee no problem.

Take your hero worship elsewhere, fighting is the realm of reality, not fanboy love.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Those are real fighters, real men, who fought with no rules before Lee ever danced his first Cha Cha or filmed his first movie. They cross trained, they walked the walk, and their walk was better than any of Bruce's talk. Their training was proven, Lee's is not.


And no a prime hughes would beat Gracie because he trains in more than one thing than Gracie did, that's the real reason.



[Only registered and activated users can see links] here I'ma help you out for a sec. since your blissfully unaware of what JKD is cause you have no idea. Infact all the princlpes that MMA has to today as "asborb what's useful and discard what isn't is all in JKD. I know for fact that you've never met, trained, or seen a real JKD practicianer except Tommy Carruthers but that's not saying much because you haven't first hand experience at all to know what your talking about because you definetly don't.

And posting Vale Tudo Tornaments from Brazil still doesn't prove your point that Bruce Lee and JKD practicianers applications don't work. One of the reason's Bruce even got into the movies was to get world wide reconigtion and to change the stereotypes of the way the chinese was viewed. And trust me if Bruce had went to shitbag Brazil he wouldn't gotten even half of the fame he gets today opposed to the movie business and Bruce always claimed to be martial artist first, acting was something he was doing since he was a kid, which he picked up from his father, something you also probably don't know. As for all those guys you think could beat Bruce, I could care less what you think because at the same token they also could of challenge him and none of them did. If they would of ever did, they all would of gotten the same treatment that everyone else gotten that challenged lee. So keep posting all the clips of tornaments all you want because none of it has anything to do with your techinque(which is key element to excuting anything the right way) or your ability as a fighter.

JKD isn't made for the ring and it never was, and until you comprhehend that in your set in your own way stubborn, close minded way of yours, than it's no since of me trying to enlighten you anymore because i'm actually trying to help you because your misinformed about many things that you visualize in your own mind.

And for the last time TANK ABBOTT FUCKIN SUCKS. And you pretty much summed it up when you tried giving examples of fights he was competitive in and still loss to guys with skilled training in their backrounds.

You probably think everyone who competes in mma Tornaments can beat every martial artist that doesn't. Like I said said, you have a very limted way of thinking.

[hussleman]

Brucelee, is the king of alll martial arts. Some people comment on a bias basis and things they don't understand or try not to understand. Just because Bruce Lee didn't fight in organize touraments dosen't mean he didn't know his stuff because he did and better than anybody in recent mememory.

[Beebs]

Brucelee, is the king of alll martial arts. Some people comment on a bias basis and things they don't understand or try not to understand. Just because Bruce Lee didn't fight in organize touraments dosen't mean he didn't know his stuff because he did and better than anybody in recent mememory.

How can you be the king of something you never accomplish anything in?

What are his martial arts accomplishments?

[Beebs]

And no a prime hughes would beat Gracie because he trains in more than one thing than Gracie did, that's the real reason.



[Only registered and activated users can see links] here I'ma help you out for a sec. since your blissfully unaware of what JKD is cause you have no idea. Infact all the princlpes that MMA has to today as "asborb what's useful and discard what isn't is all in JKD. I know for fact that you've never met, trained, or seen a real JKD practicianer except Tommy Carruthers but that's not saying much because you haven't first hand experience at all to know what your talking about because you definetly don't.

And posting Vale Tudo Tornaments from Brazil still doesn't prove your point that Bruce Lee and JKD practicianers applications don't work. One of the reason's Bruce even got into the movies was to get world wide reconigtion and to change the stereotypes of the way the chinese was viewed. And trust me if Bruce had went to shitbag Brazil he wouldn't gotten even half of the fame he gets today opposed to the movie business and Bruce always claimed to be martial artist first, acting was something he was doing since he was a kid, which he picked up from his father, something you also probably don't know. As for all those guys you think could beat Bruce, I could care less what you think because at the same token they also could of challenge him and none of them did. If they would of ever did, they all would of gotten the same treatment that everyone else gotten that challenged lee. So keep posting all the clips of tornaments all you want because none of it has anything to do with your techinque(which is key element to excuting anything the right way) or your ability as a fighter.

JKD isn't made for the ring and it never was, and until you comprhehend that in your set in your own way stubborn, close minded way of yours, than it's no since of me trying to enlighten you anymore because i'm actually trying to help you because your misinformed about many things that you visualize in your own mind.

And for the last time TANK ABBOTT FUCKIN SUCKS. And you pretty much summed it up when you tried giving examples of fights he was competitive in and still loss to guys with skilled training in their backrounds.

You probably think everyone who competes in mma Tornaments can beat every martial artist that doesn't. Like I said said, you have a very limted way of thinking.

I'm saying when Hughes was straight out of college he would have lost to Gracie, and I'm the biggest Hughes fan here; he would have lost because he was a pure wrestler.

It's not like 1 dimensional fighters can't be good. Shinya Aoki for one.

JKD is a saying, just because you say you take whats useful doesn't mean you can actually do it. Lee never proved he could grapple worth a shit, Lee never proved he could box worth a shit, Lee never proved anything.

How good was Lee's wrestling? You don't know. How good was his Judo? His submission game? His boxing? His thai? His composure in a fight, after getting hit? YOU DON'T KNOW

You are taking everything you know about Lee based on peoples word who are basing it on theory rather than knowing he accomplished something.

I don't require "tournament fighting" (like thats somehow less valid, vale tudo has no rules, so why is that not just as good as a street fight?) I require any fighting, against an opponent with a known history of fights.

Lee lacks any fighting, in or out of a tournament, with or without rules, against any sort of decent opponent.

[Canibus81]

I'm saying when Hughes was straight out of college he would have lost to Gracie, and I'm the biggest Hughes fan here; he would have lost because he was a pure wrestler.

It's not like 1 dimensional fighters can't be good. Shinya Aoki for one.

JKD is a saying, just because you say you take whats useful doesn't mean you can actually do it. Lee never proved he could grapple worth a shit, Lee never proved he could box worth a shit, Lee never proved anything.

How good was Lee's wrestling? You don't know. How good was his Judo? His submission game? His boxing? His thai? His composure in a fight, after getting hit? YOU DON'T KNOW

You are taking everything you know about Lee based on peoples word who are basing it on theory rather than knowing he accomplished something.

I don't require "tournament fighting" (like thats somehow less valid, vale tudo has no rules, so why is that not just as good as a street fight?) I require any fighting, against an opponent with a known history of fights.

Lee lacks any fighting, in or out of a tournament, with or without rules, against any sort of decent opponent.

No i;m taking Lee's word based on first hand experience in Jeet Kune Do and actually finding out for myself that's it applicable and logic suggest if someone like myself can make it work, than why couldn't the creator? Like I said your very misinformed, but maybe someday you'll wake up. Nice conversing with you though.

[Beebs]

You can make it work? I'm sure you can fight very well, but you, me, pretty much everybody on here is not an elite fighter.

But you admit you are taking his word; I require more than that.

[Canibus81]

You can make it work? I'm sure you can fight very well, but you, me, pretty much everybody on here is not an elite fighter.

But you admit you are taking his word; I require more than that.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]_life_in_America

Here's a fight history section about Bruce and eye witness Testimony since your so into tornaments and rankings,(which most americans usually are) it actually goes into details about Bruce defeating Black belt. And trust me there were many more fights that he's had that were anecdotical as well.

And btw, a friend of mines is a Brazlian Ju Jit Siu black belt and I just got into advance entry of Jeet Kune Do and he couldn't handle me. I'll let you figure out why.

[Beebs]

LOL let me guess, because you are just such a super badass. What school did he get his black belt from, because that story sounds totally believable. How did you "handle" this BJJ black belt?

Similar to the Bruce fight stories, never any credible witnesses, evidence, or quality opponents. One side always has a totally different story than the other and it always happens in some mysterious location away from neutral observers.

Admit it, you are just taking your fellow cult members words for it.

[PIRA]

Only difference is I have a mind of my own and I use it, you don't.


There is a hell of a lot more difference than that. Blindly repeating others experiences confers no ability on you - the simplistic statements you make if translated into your training show you are not a true JKD'er for you cannot even grasp one of Bruce's core beliefs.

As a Thai boxer with over twenty years of training I have seen plenty of other MA's - have never seen a JKD'er do anygood against Muay Thai or Western boxing. But its not like we are inundated with applicants. :huh

[PIRA]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]_life_in_America

Here's a fight history section about Bruce and eye witness Testimony since your so into tornaments and rankings,(which most americans usually are) it actually goes into details about Bruce defeating Black belt. And trust me there were many more fights that he's had that were anecdotical as well.

And btw, a friend of mines is a Brazlian Ju Jit Siu black belt and I just got into advance entry of Jeet Kune Do and he couldn't handle me. I'll let you figure out why.


Wow - Bruce beat a blackbelt! And the old deadly anecdotal evidence of a battle on a Chinese rooftop against a wringing wet 110 pound Chinese is obviously a far harder test than a top notch athlete and fighter with full resources and experience.

[Canibus81]

There is a hell of a lot more difference than that. Blindly repeating others experiences confers no ability on you - the simplistic statements you make if translated into your training show you are not a true JKD'er for you cannot even grasp one of Bruce's core beliefs.

As a Thai boxer with over twenty years of training I have seen plenty of other MA's - have never seen a JKD'er do anygood against Muay Thai or Western boxing. But its not like we are inundated with applicants. :huh

Than you would know that Jeet Kune Do already has Muay Thai and western boxing in it. Infact Western boxing is part of the Jeet Kune Do concepts, so like I said, I have mind of my own, you don't and your also misinformed.

[Canibus81]

Wow - Bruce beat a blackbelt! And the old deadly anecdotal evidence of a battle on a Chinese rooftop against a wringing wet 110 pound Chinese is obviously a far harder test than a top notch athlete and fighter with full resources and experience.

That's part of rankings. Isn't that what you guys stayed locked on, is rankings? Oh I know, he didn't do it in a organize Tornament with rules that's why you don't believe it.:roll:

[Beebs]

Than you would know that Jeet Kune Do already has Muay Thai and western boxing in it. Infact Western boxing is part of the Jeet Kune Do concepts, so like I said, I have mind of my own, you don't and your also misinformed.

This is one of the biggest myths of JKD.

Must because it claims to have boxing or other martial arts in it, that doesn't mean practictioners of JKD can box worth a shit.

I can spend a few weeks wrestling, it doesn't mean I "include wrestling in my system."

A boxer or thaiboxer is going to easily outbox or out thaibox a TKD guy because claiming to know how to fight in one way and actually having to do it are two different things.

[Beebs]

That's part of rankings. Isn't that what you guys stayed locked on, is rankings? Oh I know, he didn't do it in a organize Tornament with rules that's why you don't believe it.:roll:

No, he didn't do it in a provable way. Lee Murray lit up Tito Ortiz in a street fight, we can believe this because of multiple reliable sources; something lacking in every Bruce Lee "fight".

Also, just as Tito Ortiz is a legit opponent with a proven ability to fight, this mythical blackbelt Lee may or may not have fought and may or may not have beat has no credibility as a fighter.

[Beebs]

Still want to know what school this black belt you beat up went to, and who he was given his black belt by.

It sounds an awful lot like Brucie's stories; exaggerated or made up entirely.

Give us the full story and how you used your magical JKD skills.

Also rather bold of you to call somebody else misinformed when you made a blatantly false claim.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

There was another one of these last night.

[achillesthegreat]

Can't remember who said JKD kicks aren't used in MMA. Condit used them loads last night and his opponent didn't just crumble.

[Beebs]

Can't remember who said JKD kicks aren't used in MMA. Condit used them loads last night and his opponent didn't just crumble.

Surely this can't be true, everybody knows the dreaded JKD check kick will debilitate any opponent!

It must have been camera tricks, because Bruce Lee proved in his many fights that his ideas on how to kick are perfect and better than the systems that actually use them in live combat; this is why they are banned from the UFC, because it would basically be cheating to allow such a dangerous move.

It is also why JKD guys don't fight MMA, because they don't want to leave every opponent they face without knees.

Right Canibus?

[Joe Palooka]

Nah hes got a point. Same point I made before. Where were all these guys badmouthing Bruce when he was alive when he was the biggest MA guy? You have to remember the times as well, those were racist, intolerant times. If I was some hard ass, Ill call the little chinese guy out.

Exactly.

I mean, why doesn't Brock call out Jackie Chan?

He's scared.

That's why.

[Nosbor]

I also want to read about the BJJ Black-belt Canibus took the measure of.

C'mon already...

[196osh]

Indeed who gave him his BB. We could do a sherdog grappling forum esq BJJ police. :yep

[PIRA]

Than you would know that Jeet Kune Do already has Muay Thai and western boxing in it. Infact Western boxing is part of the Jeet Kune Do concepts, so like I said, I have mind of my own, you don't and your also misinformed.


You are a fucken idiot. Contextually the above makes no sense at all!

[PIRA]

That's part of rankings. Isn't that what you guys stayed locked on, is rankings? Oh I know, he didn't do it in a organize Tornament with rules that's why you don't believe it.:roll:


Another idiotic post. One undocumented win in a point tournament (:rofl:rofl:rofl :rofl) against some nameless no-one is no evidence to support your ridiculous nut hugging.

Now run off to your bad-ass Carruthers class. :nut

[chimba]

Exactly.

I mean, why doesn't Brock call out Jackie Chan?

He's scared.

That's why.

Different times, these actor/MA guys are a dime a dozen now. I remember Bas calling out Seagal. I mean Seagal calling out van Damme. Someone was calling out Wesley, just couldnt recall who it was. Royce was calling out Tyson or was that Rorion.

[Olz15]

koki komeda beats both....
seriously though i cannot believe this is still going on. GSP by how ever he wants for all the reasons stated by the posters who are not being silly about the odds

[Beebs]

I also want to read about the BJJ Black-belt Canibus took the measure of.

C'mon already...

He appears to be have dicktucked.

[Nosbor]

Story! Story! Story!

[don owens]

The only thing that Lee was superior at to everyone else that has ever lived was SELF PROMOTION. it certainly was not fighting. he was never a fighter and there is a reason for that. he knew he would lose and his ego and all the work he put in self promotion would be damaged severely.