Ibragimov must KO Holyfield, a UD is not enough

[ChrisPontius]

History has shown this.

Marciano got credit for knocking out an old Louis, Charles didn't get much respect in decisioning him. Tyson got credit for knocking out an old Holmes.

Holyfield DOMINATED an old Foreman and an old Holmes, yets get little respect for it. People even say that Holyfield "struggled" with them, even when he won about 10 out of 12 rounds against each of them, with a lot of lopsided rounds.

Holyfield will definitly be the croud favorite, being American, established and popular and the underdog. Ibragimov must knock him out will he be recognised.

[diamondDave]

You are absolutely right. This is the fight that Ibragimov needs and he needs to stop Holyfield. This fight if it is made will put him into the American spotlight and lead to much bigger money and higher profile fights.

[2smart4u]

:patsch If he wants respect then he shouldnt fight granddad !

[McGrain]

I agree, it's KO or bust.

[Amsterdam]

I agree, it's KO or bust.

Ibrag may get KOed himself, he's overrated.

[McGrain]

Hollyfield will die in the ring. Of this I am certain.


So will Bruno. He's got one at his house and he's never out of the fucking thing, he used to sleep in it. He's doing much better now though.

[El Bombasto]

If he focuses on body work, he'll KO him

[LennoxGOAT]

History has shown this.

Marciano got credit for knocking out an old Louis, Charles didn't get much respect in decisioning him. Tyson got credit for knocking out an old Holmes.

Holyfield DOMINATED an old Foreman and an old Holmes, yets get little respect for it. People even say that Holyfield "struggled" with them, even when he won about 10 out of 12 rounds against each of them, with a lot of lopsided rounds.

Holyfield will definitly be the croud favorite, being American, established and popular and the underdog. Ibragimov must knock him out will he be recognised.


Exactly and very well said.

I do love the people who try and claim that Holyfield struggled with Foreman and Holmes....:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

[McGrain]

Ibragimov vs Holyfield IS GOOD, VERY GOOD for boxing. IT is an important bout and the only shame is they can't fight the other guys like Tyson or Bowe.


Unless, of course, Hollfield is hurt in the ring or can't speak properly during his post fight interview. That would not be good for boxing.

[sues2nd]

Ibrag may get KOed himself, he's overrated.

THaaaaaank you...

He is soooo overrated on this site...its ridiculous.

[El Bombasto]

THaaaaaank you...

He is soooo overrated on this site...its ridiculous.

Well, he did beat the man (Briggs), that beat the man (Lyakovich), that beat the man (Brewster), so it's safe to say that he's not overrated

[Zakman]

Ibrag may get KOed himself, he's overrated.

Yup. I think people are really underestimating Evander here, and greatly overrating Ibragimov.:yep

[Imperial1]

Yup. I think people are really underestimating Evander here, and greatly overrating Ibragimov.:yep

Exactly ..I mean he beat Shannon Briggs the only HW that fights 2 minutes of a 12 rd fight !!

[sues2nd]

Well, he did beat the man (Briggs), that beat the man (Lyakovich), that beat the man (Brewster), so it's safe to say that he's not overrated

And Louis Monaco beat Kevin McBride, who beat Tyson, who beat Holmes, who beat Ali...so obviously Monaco KOs Ali....right?

:rofl

[sues2nd]

What does that make Briggs? He had a legion of nuthuggers three weeks ago.

LOL to all the Briggs nuthuggers....but lets not take that too far with this site.

Briggs may be a hard hitting HW, but he is past his prime (where he wasnt that good to begin with). Suffers from severe asthma. And beat someone by landing a bomb in a fight he was losing.

Briggs aint the only fighter on here with an undeserved following on this site. Hell there are even Ruiz fans on here....:nut

[Butch Coolidge]

Ibragimov is an Olympic silver medalist who had a great Cuban fighter in serious trouble, he also is a WBO titlist who put on a Michael Spinks vs Larry Holmes 1 type of boxing and most likely could have gotten Briggs out in the 10th if he would have been willing to risk standing in front of Briggs for one or two more seconds but he chose to not give Briggs a chance of throwing a hard counter punch. The Russian has shown a pretty good chin taking super hard shots from Briggs, Whitaker and Corey Sanders ( in sparring ). He has excellent hand speed which is going to be a huge problem for Holy at this point of his career, he sneaks in damaging punches and he likes going to the body. I think judging him only by the Austin fight is misleading. Look at how he handled Briggs, Mora and Whitaker. Ibragimov is kind of a mixture of Jerry Quarry and Vassily Jirov and that's good enough to put him in the top five today. I don't think SI can beat Wladimir Klitschko but I'd say he's at least even with Chagaev and probably better than Maskaev. Even in his prime Holyfield would have a serious challenge with Ibragimov but now in the twilight of his career I think he has little chance vs Ibragimov.

[sues2nd]

Ibragimov is an Olympic silver medalist who had a great Cuban fighter in serious trouble, he also is a WBO titlist who put on a Michael Spinks vs Larry Holmes 1 type of boxing and most likely could have gotten Briggs out in the 10th if he would have been willing to risk standing in front of Briggs for one or two more seconds but he chose to not give Briggs a chance of throwing a hard counter punch. The Russian has shown a pretty good chin taking super hard shots from Briggs, Whitaker and Corey Sanders ( in sparring ). He has excellent hand speed which is going to be a huge problem for Holy at this point of his career, he sneaks in damaging punches and he likes going to the body. I think judging him only by the Austin fight is misleading. Look at how he handled Briggs, Mora and Whitaker. Ibragimov is kind of a mixture of Jerry Quarry and Vassily Jirov and that's good enough to put him in the top five today. I don't think SI can beat Wladimir Klitschko but I'd say he's at least even with Chagaev and probably better than Maskaev. Even in his prime Holyfield would have a serious challenge with Ibragimov but now in the twilight of his career I think he has little chance vs Ibragimov.

You see what I mean about how overrated this guy is. Prime Evander wouldve DESTROYED Sultan.

:patsch

If you had just left it how it was...you were on your way to giving him a little too much credit, but not blowing it too far out of proportion....but that last one....wow dude...wow.

[Butch Coolidge]

You see what I mean about how overrated this guy is. Prime Evander wouldve DESTROYED Sultan.

:patsch

If you had just left it how it was...you were on your way to giving him a little too much credit, but not blowing it too far out of proportion....but that last one....wow dude...wow.

Watch Holy's fights with Bert Cooper and Dwight Braxton Quawi and tell me he gets an instant walkover on Ibragimov and I would laugh in your face. I'd think Holy would win but not nearly as easily as you do. In fact, I think SI would push a prime Holy just as hard as Quawi did.

[Butch Coolidge]

Yea like prime Louis would walk through prime Holy, Lewis and Bowe:roll:


Guys fighters are FIGHTERS!

You cannot and it is stupid to make them out to be demi-Gods.

THE TRUTH IS fighters who were dominant heavies RARELY RARELY RARELY had to fight OTHER OLYMPIANS because most good olympians WON the title (Lewis, Bowe, Holy, Ali, Foreman, etc.) but never EVER had to fight the Cubans, or Russians, or other good olympians in the pro ranks.


Tell me when was the last MAJOR significant fight between 2 good olympian pedigree fighters on the pro level PRE EX SOVIET FLOOD?


Sultan would trouble holy, like any good fighter with good pedigree would trouble any other good fighter with good pedigree.

:deal :yep

[Butch Coolidge]

Yup i mean people say "oh the amateurs don't mean shit in the pros."
:roll:

Ah
Holy vs Lewis was a bout between 2 great amateur stars
Holy vs Bowe Ditto
Foreman vs Ali Ditto
Ali vs Frazier



Amateur greats have a better potential to be great pro's
So Sultan would certainly trouble Holy as i mentioned.

Harrison and guys like him are an exception to guys like Wlad and Povetkin who are the rule. :think

yeah, I thought it was pretty obvious myself; top international competitors in real competition, not just knocking down tomato cans and handpicked opponents. However, the way amatuer boxing has gone I think it won't prepare fighters for professional fighting like it used to prepare them.

[Butch Coolidge]

I saw Ibragimov fight in the Olympics and I am surprised the referee allowed the fight to continue. Ibragimov carved that Cuban like turkey but I was impressed by the way the Cuban came back on points. SI has a style very similar to Jirov, another gold medalist.

Also if Michael Moorer gave Evander some problems years ago Ibragimov would have given him all he could handle.

[sues2nd]

Now that the little love in with Sultan is over I will chime back in.

Let me start out by saying Sultan is a good fighter. Good skills. Nice power. Good chin.

But Evander in his prime was LEAPS and BOUNDS better in every way. Better skills (I hope NEITHER of you are even questioning this as truth???). More proven power (Sultan could prove that wrong over time...). A much better chin (Evander's chin in his prime is legendary). Defense.... Speed.... Accuracy.... Not many smarter fighters than Evander either.

Fact is....Sultan is not the same type of fighter as a Qawi. Qawi was a warrior who pressured and pressured...that is how he gave Holyfield problems. I suggest you go watch his fights with Qawi. Which by the way, were fantastic, fantastic fights.

To even mention a man like Sultan, who hasnt even fought a great fighter yet. Hasnt even had 25 bouts yet. Even had trouble with the immortal Ray FREAKIN' Austin. would give a prime Evander Holyfield....one of the ten greatest HWs of all time (and one of the five greatest CWs of all time) problems is insane.

AND IT SHOWS HOW HORRIBLY OVERRATED THE MAN IS ON THIS SITE!!!!

[sues2nd]

People arne't saying Sultan is as good as Evander or as accomplished as him.
JUST THAT HE COULD CAUSE HIM TROUBLE.

I don't see what the problem is with this view?

As you said he is a good fighter who LIKE evander had GREAT amateur pedigree.
What the FUCK is the problem?
Nobody is saying he would win.

THis is always the case.
The old guys you saw billions of times on TV beat up no hopers with NO amateur credentials and good to decent fighters
ALWAYS ALWAYS seem more invincible and demi-god like relative to the guys you see do it all over again as they did and run into similar problems as they did.


People talk about Ray Austin hurting Sultan.

OK tell me has Evander NEVER been hurt or stunned or even KD'd by a sub par fighter?

James Toney is less a heavy then Austin and still KD'd him.

Briggs has more power then most anybody Evander has faced save for Bowe and Lewis and Sultan took his shots (as few as their were) flush and didn't flinch.


I am not saying Sultan's chin is better hten Evander's BUT DAMN MAN why is it so much worse?


As far as technical skill. Sultan basically won the Gold Medal based on what i heard of the fight,
even though he started late in boxing, and got on the Russian national team SIMPLY based on the fact that he was so good and beat the crap out of their top guys.

This kid would cause problems to Evander and GOOD GOD i will say it possible beat him.
Stop fuckin nuthugging the past.
There is only so much a fighter can do to reach demi-God form without actually doing it.

Ok maybe Henry Armstrong and Sugar Ray Robinson (and even then HOW many fuckin times did they lose? IF THEY WERE SO UNBEATABLE even at a later stage they would still beat all these other mortals around them:patsch:roll:)


As i said stop nuthugging the past.
Sultan is a good fighter, and a belt holder.
You said so yourself.
A good fighter would cause Evander trouble.
Case closed.:hi:

LMAO....

Why do people on this site get so fuckin angry when ya say something that they dont like about their binky???

:huh

First I gotta tell ya....I dont think you understand what I am trying to say....the original quote I brought up is about a prime Evander. Toney never fought a PRIME EVANDER. So NO a subpar fighter never hurt a PRIME Evander Holyfield (and BTW, Toney would DESTROY Austin).

Fact, Sultan is a good fighter with a great amateur background. Holyfield is a GREAT fighter with a great amatuer background (how is using facts to back up a point mean that I am nuthugging the past BTW...whatever....).

I dont have ANY problem with saying this version of Evander would have problems with Sultan. I have a problem with saying a PRIME Evander Holyfield...one of the greatest fighters EVER to step in the ring (people always forget how utterly incredible he was at CW)...would have problems with Sultan (hell that guy that you were going back and forth with said he would stop him early....yet he didnt even stop Ray Austin early...facts and history dont even back that up).

Sultan has a nice win over Briggs...another overrated fighter. But this overrated fighter is also past his prime (which wasnt THAT good to begin with) and suffers from severe asthma...which limits him to fighting for maybe a total of two rounds out of twelve. Honestly, he beat the worst out of all the belt holders...and I really dont care how many Briggs nuthuggers there were on here....like I said, on this site, there are still Ruiz nuthuggers :huh ...

Sultan vs Holyfield would be a mismatch. He wouldnt outbox Holyfield. He wouldnt be faster. He wouldnt be stronger. He wouldnt be able to keep Evander off him. Every fighter that gave Evander problems in his prime had an advantage in some way....

As for your question about Evanders chin being much better than Sultan's??? You serious? Evander took shots from some of the biggest punchers EVER and kept coming....he has proven his chin. Who, other than the few shots that Briggs threw (which is why I said Sultan has a good chin btw....god to you even read what I wrote...or did you just see that I think Sultan is OVERRATED ON THIS SITE and you saw red???) has he fought that could hurt a PRIME Holyfield.

Like I said, I think Sultan is a nice fighter. But to put him in the same breathe as a PRIME EVANDER HOLYFIELD IS TO SERIOUSLY OVERRATE HIM (like I said, people on this site do it...I never said that HE was overrated...I think he is a good fighter....never said different). In time, he may prove me wrong...but from what he has shown so far....it doesnt appear I am that far off.

Oh and since you brought it up....let me list the fighters that Evander fought who had more power than Briggs. Lewis, Foreman (dont even argue this one...even old Foreman was one of the hardest hitters ever), Tyson (forgot that one didnt ya???), Bowe, Byrd (JK JK JK JK :rofl ). And while Sultan looked great outboxing Briggs...Evander took the fight to those guys and gave just as much (in most cases more) than he took. He went to war with them...he didnt just box them. I am not saying this to take away from Sultan's chin...just to show how utterly incredible Evander's was.

Now calm down....take a breathe and relax. Just because someone disagrees with you doesnt make them a "nuthugger". Saying a fighter with 22 fights could give one of the greatest fighters of all time in their PRIME problems...when nothing (fact nor history) backs that up...does make you one tho....sorry.

:hi:

[sues2nd]

I am being just as angry as "You are."

Why don't you take your binky's (i.e. "prime" holyfields) nuts out of your mouth
and realize fighters are fighters.
Great, Good, mediocare or poor.

As i asked you
has holyfield never had issues with subpar fighters?

WHO THE FUCK HASNT Great or not great?

What does Holy's condition in the TOney fight have to do with his chin?
His chin doesn't change does it?
Does Oliver McCall's even if he is 42?

Now Briggs is overrated. FINE.
THAT Tyson was overrated after beating bums, and Bowe was a fuckin lard ass who didn't train for shit compared to Briggs.
What else?
Fuckin Holy beating Douglas and getting props for it cause Tyson didn't do his job in Tokyo? :patsch


I can spin this garbage any way you want and make Sultan out the greatest thing since sliced bread and Holy an overrated joke.

IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT A GOOD FIGHTER GIVES ANOTHER GOOD FIGHTER TROUBLE "POTENTIALLY" in any fight.

THis aura crap about the past has to stop.
Yes HOly would be favored in his prime.
Fine i have no qualms with it cause potentially he did more then SUltan did
but that doesn't change the facts of the fight.
A good fighter (and you admit Sultan is good) gives another good fighter (great, awesome, spectacular, super duper call him what you want) trouble.
:hi:

:patsch

I see it is a waste of time arguing with you. You have your head WAY too far up Sultan's ass to see the light of day.

I gave nothing but credit to Sultan for what he has done so far in the ring. As I did with Evander. I gave facts and history to back it up....and you called me a nuthugger??? GREAT COMEBACK!!! Yet say nothing about practically anything I said...you really are great at proving points...I see the light now. Thanks....:-(

(and when did I get angry about anything...whatever bro...your a lost cause...)

[Dekkers]

Novi is right about this actually, Henry Cooper had Evander ready to go for example. Nobody's saying Ibragimov would beat Evander, but Ibragimov is a good fighter who deserves respect. Style wise he'd give Evander a good fight, good chin, swarms well, fast hands. He hasn't accomplished anything to be held up next to Holyfield, and even in Novis opinion doesn't beat Holy, but nobody has said something insane like "Vitali would easily cruise to a decision against Ali" here.

[DamonD]

So what, these guys are set to fight or something?

[Butch Coolidge]

So what, these guys are set to fight or something?

rumour has it that it is a 95% chance it will happen.

[Sonny's jab]

I suspect Holyfield is still a lot harder fight than Ray Austin and certainly Shannon Briggs.

I'm not sure Ibragimov can beat a decrepit Holyfield. This is a step up in class for Sultan.
And Holyfield's a rotten corpse compared to his younger days.

Yeah, I guess it's an ok fight.
The WBO heavyweight title hasn't exactly got an illustrious history to live up to.

[Sonny's jab]

Holyfield has to get past Lou Savarese first.

:D

[joeboxer]

Ibragimov shouldn't step into the ring with Holyfield. Holyfield clearly has done nothing to warrant a title shot.

[Max Molyneux]

Since when Is Sultan fighting Holyfield?

[Butch Coolidge]

Since when Is Sultan fighting Holyfield?


[Only registered and activated users can see links]


Holyfield was quoted as saying it was a 95% possibility.

[sues2nd]

Yea which is why you have stopped arguing :-(

I gave up because you were a lost cause. I gave up because you didnt read what I wrote or even what I quoted...or else the Toney fight never would have came up. I gave up because, while I used facts and history to back up what I was saying (in other words it was a thought out arguement, rather than a nuthugger defending his binky...and since when is Holyfield my BINKY??? You know, people CAN disagree with you and NOT be a nuthugger...were you aware of that??)

So after reading what you wrote...let me quote Godfather 3.

"Just when I think Im out....THEY PULL ME RIGHT BACK IN!!!"

1. Which great(good, super duper, etc.) fighters have not had issues with guys beneath them? Marciano is the only one i can think of at this point and even then he had some controversial calls against guys like La Starza who NOBODY talks about as a "legend" ATG, HOF, etc.

First, let me say that I NEVER said Holyfield never had issues with subpar fighters. ALL GREATS HAVE. You mentioned the Toney fight to say that Evander somehow doesnt have a great chin (dont know how any human being who has actually seen him fight could say that...but.)...and I mentioned that that was not Prime Evander. So wave that out the window. I think we can all agree with what you posted above.

2. Holy has accomplished more and would be the favorite because of it
BUT STYLISTICALLY why couldn't Sultan cause him problems?
YOu admit he is a good (great, fantastic, superman, etc.) fighter yet you say "Holy kills him no contest?":-(

Well, to give Evander problems, you have to at least have ONE advantage over him...please tell me what Sultan does better then Holyfield. Power...nope. Chin...nope. Speed...nope. Ring Savy/Generalship/Smarts/etc...nope. Experience...nope. Defense...nope. Heart...nope. We could keep going.

Now if you were told two fighters would be going at it. And one didnt match up in ANY WAY with the other...what would be your conclusion? Who would you have your money on? I didnt just look at the names and say "NO WAY!!"

And I do think Sultan is a good fighter. There are plenty of good fighters that I would give no chance to with a prime Evander. Thats not a slight on Sultan...its more of a testament to how good Holyfield was.

Like I said, in every post mind you...I think Sultan is OVERRATED ON THIS SITE....not that he is an overrated fighter. Quite the opposite actually.

What does my having to be a Sultan fan have anything to do with the stylistic match up between these 2 guys?

When you automattically label me a nuthugger, because I differ in opinion with what you said. When you dont even look at the facts I laid out. When you get PISSED off. BLAH BLAH BLAH...I tend to lean toward that there is more motivation then just opinion...especially when there is nothing that really, truely backs that opinion. People favor their favorite fighters...its human nature. Its when you BLINDLY favor your favorite fighters, that people begin to think that their may be some hugging of the nuts...so to say.

Sure Holy took bigger shots for longer against better fighters
but maybe that means his defense is SHIT?:think
Plus does that mean he wasn't hurt at all?
Bowe had him hurt and so did many other guys.
Sure he is a great survivor but why if these guys hurt him another GOOD (great, etc.) fighter cannot do the same? :think

When one fighter takes big shots from great fighters and keeps coming, and one take a few big shots from one heavy hitter....you tell me who you feel has PROVEN the better chin (remember after I mentioned all of those things...I said Sultan may prove me wrong over time...but honestly, that is a big mountain to climb.)

As for his defense...Evander was a fantastic at rolling from big punches (think of James Toney...but not as good...Toney is THE master at that defensive style)...remember, defense doesnt have to mean, not getting hit....Holyfield was great at reducing the amount of power in those shots.

And plus, when you get hit with BOMBS from great fighters (Bowe, for example...since you brought him up), how does that take away from your defensive abilities? That is why they are great fighters...am I wrong?

Sultan hasnt proven he can hurt a great fighter with a great chin. In fact, its just the opposite. There have been horrible (Ray Austin is worse than subpar...I think we can agree there) fighters that he wasnt able to hurt. Again, history has more weight on my side of the arguement then yours. That is why I feel like I do.

Isn't that what is called "causing problems?"

Holyfield had problems against a certain type of fighter in his career. Sultan is not that type of fighter. I hate to use this analogy, because it is overused, but....as they say....styles make fights...and Sultan's style was not the type that gave Holyfield problems.

I may have my head up Sultan's ass (which has no bearing on this argument but whatever) but your head is firmly lodged in the ass of the past.

As if what Holy did was somehow so "demi-god like" that you simply have to shove your head up there without question?:patsch

How does looking at the advantages, the history and the facts make me a nuthugger of the past (I didnt make up anything...I didnt make any insane claims...I didnt discredit what the other has done)? You speak like no fighter from Evander's era could compete nowadays? The nutthugger thing in this case isnt ******ted...

Believe me
a billion guys who you never saw on TV probably could do what Holy did in CERTAIN instances under the right circumstance
and then have a legend grow regarding their chin.

Case in point.
Gatti- Granite chin, Huge heart, only the best most powerful guys stop him.
Baldomir-journeyman, too many losses, weak power.

Result?
Baldomir tko 8 Gatti.


PERCEPTION and REALITY are 2 different things.
Get your head out the Past's ass.

Perception of what? What has Sultan done to show that he could compete with Evander Holyfield?

Lets look at your example...

Holyfield























Gatti

Any further questions?

Reality is, Evander (prime) has every advantage you could want over Sultan. Reality is, Evander has proven all of the things I have mentioned. Reality is Sultan has not and has A LONG WAY TO GO to do so. Reality is, if this fight were to happen (Prime Evander vs Sultan) Evander would be a HUUUUUUUUUGE favorite, not because he is more popular, but because he would be expected to cruise to a win...like the old saying goes "Vegas aint in the buisiness of losing money".

Perception is thinking Sultan has any advantage over Evander (prime). Perception is thinking Sultan's style matches up with Evander's (prime) well. Perception is thinking that just because I disagree with you, that I somehow nuthug the past.

Reality is what I based my feelings on. Perception is what you used for yours.

Thank you for you time...I will be here all week....now Im off to work.

HAVE A GREAT DAY EVERYBODY!!!!

:happy

[Butch Coolidge]

I gave up because you were a lost cause. I gave up because you didnt read what I wrote or even what I quoted...or else the Toney fight never would have came up. I gave up because, while I used facts and history to back up what I was saying (in other words it was a thought out arguement, rather than a nuthugger defending his binky...and since when is Holyfield my BINKY??? You know, people CAN disagree with you and NOT be a nuthugger...were you aware of that??)

So after reading what you wrote...let me quote Godfather 3.

"Just when I think Im out....THEY PULL ME RIGHT BACK IN!!!"



First, let me say that I NEVER said Holyfield never had issues with subpar fighters. ALL GREATS HAVE. You mentioned the Toney fight to say that Evander somehow doesnt have a great chin (dont know how any human being who has actually seen him fight could say that...but.)...and I mentioned that that was not Prime Evander. So wave that out the window. I think we can all agree with what you posted above.



Well, to give Evander problems, you have to at least have ONE advantage over him...please tell me what Sultan does better then Holyfield. Power...nope. Chin...nope. Speed...nope. Ring Savy/Generalship/Smarts/etc...nope. Experience...nope. Defense...nope. Heart...nope. We could keep going.

Now if you were told two fighters would be going at it. And one didnt match up in ANY WAY with the other...what would be your conclusion? Who would you have your money on? I didnt just look at the names and say "NO WAY!!"

And I do think Sultan is a good fighter. There are plenty of good fighters that I would give no chance to with a prime Evander. Thats not a slight on Sultan...its more of a testament to how good Holyfield was.

Like I said, in every post mind you...I think Sultan is OVERRATED ON THIS SITE....not that he is an overrated fighter. Quite the opposite actually.



When you automattically label me a nuthugger, because I differ in opinion with what you said. When you dont even look at the facts I laid out. When you get PISSED off. BLAH BLAH BLAH...I tend to lean toward that there is more motivation then just opinion...especially when there is nothing that really, truely backs that opinion. People favor their favorite fighters...its human nature. Its when you BLINDLY favor your favorite fighters, that people begin to think that their may be some hugging of the nuts...so to say.



When one fighter takes big shots from great fighters and keeps coming, and one take a few big shots from one heavy hitter....you tell me who you feel has PROVEN the better chin (remember after I mentioned all of those things...I said Sultan may prove me wrong over time...but honestly, that is a big mountain to climb.)

As for his defense...Evander was a fantastic at rolling from big punches (think of James Toney...but not as good...Toney is THE master at that defensive style)...remember, defense doesnt have to mean, not getting hit....Holyfield was great at reducing the amount of power in those shots.

And plus, when you get hit with BOMBS from great fighters (Bowe, for example...since you brought him up), how does that take away from your defensive abilities? That is why they are great fighters...am I wrong?

Sultan hasnt proven he can hurt a great fighter with a great chin. In fact, its just the opposite. There have been horrible (Ray Austin is worse than subpar...I think we can agree there) fighters that he wasnt able to hurt. Again, history has more weight on my side of the arguement then yours. That is why I feel like I do.



Holyfield had problems against a certain type of fighter in his career. Sultan is not that type of fighter. I hate to use this analogy, because it is overused, but....as they say....styles make fights...and Sultan's style was not the type that gave Holyfield problems.



How does looking at the advantages, the history and the facts make me a nuthugger of the past (I didnt make up anything...I didnt make any insane claims...I didnt discredit what the other has done)? You speak like no fighter from Evander's era could compete nowadays? The nutthugger thing in this case isnt ******ted...



Perception of what? What has Sultan done to show that he could compete with Evander Holyfield?

Lets look at your example...

Holyfield























Gatti

Any further questions?

Reality is, Evander (prime) has every advantage you could want over Sultan. Reality is, Evander has proven all of the things I have mentioned. Reality is Sultan has not and has A LONG WAY TO GO to do so. Reality is, if this fight were to happen (Prime Evander vs Sultan) Evander would be a HUUUUUUUUUGE favorite, not because he is more popular, but because he would be expected to cruise to a win...like the old saying goes "Vegas aint in the buisiness of losing money".

Perception is thinking Sultan has any advantage over Evander (prime). Perception is thinking Sultan's style matches up with Evander's (prime) well. Perception is thinking that just because I disagree with you, that I somehow nuthug the past.

Reality is what I based my feelings on. Perception is what you used for yours.

Thank you for you time...I will be here all week....now Im off to work.

HAVE A GREAT DAY EVERYBODY!!!!

:happy


Your opinion is not reality.

[Brickhaus]

Sultan is NOT a good fighter, and would get destroyed by most good heavyweights. He's a top-10 fighter by default in a weight class that is 5 deep, at best. IMO, Ibragamov is about on par with guys like Mesi, and I'd give Mesi a 50/50 chance of beating him. However, Holyfield is just plain toast. Even if he kayos Holy, I won't give Sultan any credit. What's the point of giving credit to a win over a 45 year old who hasn't beaten anyone of significance in 5 years? At least Holmes had just beaten Mercer, and Louis was only 36 and had beaten about 5 guys with pulses in the two years before fighting Marciano. There's just no comparison to those situations with Sultan fighting Holyfield. This is more like Grover Wiley fighting a shell of a Julio Cesar Chavez.

[youthmann]

The fight will be tough. Sultan has to do 100% - don't count Holyfield for nothing. Holy will almost be ready to die inside that ring. Sultan 65%.

[jpab19]

Well, you guys were wrong. Just thought i'd bring this thread back to let you know.

[Ilesey]

Worst bump ever.

[Boxed Ears]

Sultan is NOT a good fighter, and would get destroyed by most good heavyweights. He's a top-10 fighter by default in a weight class that is 5 deep, at best. IMO, Ibragamov is about on par with guys like Mesi, and I'd give Mesi a 50/50 chance of beating him. However, Holyfield is just plain toast. Even if he kayos Holy, I won't give Sultan any credit. What's the point of giving credit to a win over a 45 year old who hasn't beaten anyone of significance in 5 years? At least Holmes had just beaten Mercer, and Louis was only 36 and had beaten about 5 guys with pulses in the two years before fighting Marciano. There's just no comparison to those situations with Sultan fighting Holyfield. This is more like Grover Wiley fighting a shell of a Julio Cesar Chavez.

:?