Julio Cesar Chavez’s 89-0-1 Record

[Superheavyweight]

How come no one recognises Chavez’s unbeaten record?

People always talk about Marciano’s 49-0, not even in terms of heavyweight I mean… like Calzaghe often states how he doesn’t want to break his record out of respect (laughable really as he has never been an undisputed champion i.e. the man… and who has he actually beat? A green Lacy? An old Eubank?).

I know Chavez’s record was very controversial up to that 90 fight unbeaten streak, but still… a record is a record.

Discuss…

[Zakman]

Uh, maybe it's because of all those Tiajuana taxi drivers he fought to pad that record up?? :lol:

Seriously - it's because of a) the draw; and b) the fact that he did not retire with the record intact.

[Dorfmeister]

To me ( not even am his fan 4 real), clearly that one fighter of the last 30 years pound for pound and the reason he is underrated is political as well as social in the New World, of course.

[freddy-wak]

it's simple...




















CAUSE HE'S MEXICAN

[Punisher33]

Theres a difference between fighting tough competition and fighting taxi drivers as Zackman stated before. Even when Valuev was getting close to Marciano's record, people were demanding he fight real competition to beat the record the fair way. Taking nothing away from Chavez' he was a good fighter, but most of his wins were against very low caliber opposition that even Charlie Zelenoff might beat.

[sweet_scientist]

Padded as his record might be, he still beat about 15 belt holders (not including WBO belt holders), which is a pretty awesome feat.

[freddy-wak]

what do you expect, he had no ammeature career.....

[gutto]

Wtf its all the name jc superstar

[Asterion]

JCC had an impressive 86-0-0. No losses, no draws.

But he didn't retire with that record, that's why it is practically meaningless.

[brooklyn1550]

Had he retired with an 88-0 record, people would view it as the standard for boxing - surpassing Marciano's 49-0. But he didn't, so it's not...simple as that

[Stickandmove]

Check his record on boxrec

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

He was 39-0 before he fought anyone with a decent record (Adriano Arreola who was 21-4-0 at the time).

There were loads of tremendous wins after that to get to 89-0-1 though so I definitely agree that his record should be given more credit.

Still the best Mexican fighter of all time? Or have Barrera, Morales and JM Marquez surpassed him?

[standing 8countboxing]

There is also a fairly proven story that his draw was initially a DQ loss, but he was friends with the head of the Mexican Commission and had that loss changed to a draw to help his credentials when he went up the rankings. The 0 would look better then a 1. Also, in no way am I discrediting the legend, he is clearly one of the best ever and I love watching his old fight tapes, he was a machine.

I think this story has come up here before and has been validated, would look it up if not lazy or if people are just saying I'm trying to start a flame war.

[Ring Master]

Umm, you have to retire witht he record for it to count.

[Superheavyweight]

There is also a fairly proven story that his draw was initially a DQ loss, but he was friends with the head of the Mexican Commission and had that loss changed to a draw to help his credentials when he went up the rankings. The 0 would look better then a 1. Also, in no way am I discrediting the legend, he is clearly one of the best ever and I love watching his old fight tapes, he was a machine.

I think this story has come up here before and has been validated, would look it up if not lazy or if people are just saying I'm trying to start a flame war.What you talking about?

He wasn’t disqualified against Whitaker, he may have lost but the fight went the full 12.

[standing 8countboxing]

This is what I'm talking about. I might not have explained it well enough. But this is the instance I'm talking about.

"For many years all the leading record books, including both Pugilato and The Ring Record Book, recorded the first loss of Julio Cesar Chavez as being by disqualification....
This has since been changed to a knockout victory for Chavez, based on confirmation from the local boxing commission in Culiacan that it altered the verdict the following day.
Ramon Felix, manager of Chavez, happened to be a member of the Culiacan commission at the time."
The A-Z of World Boxing by Bert Blewett (1996) at p. 341.

That was the 12th fight of his career.

[The Whaler]

JCC had an impressive 86-0-0. No losses, no draws.

But he didn't retire with that record, that's why it is practically meaningless.

I wonder what people would have said if Chavez had retired right then and there as an undefeated fighter?

[freddy-wak]

Umm, you have to retire witht he record for it to count.

fuck you, if he was black or puerto rican you'd be sucking his dick throug the screen so much your lips would look like reggies.....:lol:

[Wilhelm]

it's simple...





CAUSE HE'S MEXICAN
Oh for christsake quit your crying. He beat some good fighters but a lot of those where total bums. There's no arguing that. To pretend though that because a guy had no am career he gets to skate on fighting nobodies for years and years is bullshit. Great amateurs fight higher levels of comp in elite tournaments than pros at the bottom do, so should we start counting those wins on their pro record?

If he had fought good comp starting at his 20th fight and go to 88-0 he'd have been a god even if he was a martian. Don't blame people for paying attention to the details.

[freddy-wak]

Oh for christsake quit your crying. He beat some good fighters but a lot of those where total bums. There's no arguing that. To pretend though that because a guy had no am career he gets to skate on fighting nobodies for years and years is bullshit. Great amateurs fight higher levels of comp in elite tournaments than pros at the bottom do, so should we start counting those wins on their pro record?

If he had fought good comp starting at his 20th fight and go to 88-0 he'd have been a god even if he was a martian. Don't blame people for paying attention to the details.


who gives a shit what he did early in his career, look at what the man did in his prime.....

he brutalized m'fuckas in the ring, butcher style....he didnt fight just to go 12 rounds...he didnt dance around, he earned his way to the fucken top....it aint his fault people were to busy sucking boom boom's dick...chavez is a true champ, and maybe the best ever...but because he's mexican, he rarely even gets talked about...

but dont let sugar ray get brought up into a conversation, with his 30 something fights, he gets way more love than chavez could ever even dream of.....

chavez is a fucken legend, and you know damn well he gets put at the bottom of the barrel cause of his country.....look at salvador sanchez, fought some of the best fighters, no "BUMS" (how you non-fighters call them) and does he even get brought up in the same sentance as any black or white american fighters...


in 5 years, people wont even remember finito lopez at all....but they'll still suck the foreskin off marcianos fucken dick.....YOU TELL ME WHY

[standing 8countboxing]

who gives a shit what he did early in his career, look at what the man did in his prime.....

he brutalized m'fuckas in the ring, butcher style....he didnt fight just to go 12 rounds...he didnt dance around, he earned his way to the fucken top....it aint his fault people were to busy sucking boom boom's dick...chavez is a true champ, and maybe the best ever...but because he's mexican, he rarely even gets talked about...

but dont let sugar ray get brought up into a conversation, with his 30 something fights, he gets way more love than chavez could ever even dream of.....

chavez is a fucken legend, and you know damn well he gets put at the bottom of the barrel cause of his country.....look at salvador sanchez, fought some of the best fighters, no "BUMS" (how you non-fighters call them) and does he even get brought up in the same sentance as any black or white american fighters...


in 5 years, people wont even remember finito lopez at all....but they'll still suck the foreskin off marcianos fucken dick.....YOU TELL ME WHY

Freddy my friend, I have always enjoyed reading your posts and have rarely disagreed with you. With this I think you may be wasting your breath. Anyone who takes boxing seriously and can be taken seriously considers JCC among the best. I personally have never taken a fighters nationality into account when I am looking at his resume. What I'm trying to say is, you shouldn't give a shit about people who look down on him because he is Mexican. You are absolutly right with what you say about how some people rank him lower because of his race, but you shouldn't be starting flame wars with people like that, you already know the result. I'm not taking down to you brother, just letting you know what I think.

[thanosone]

who gives a shit what he did early in his career, look at what the man did in his prime.....

he brutalized m'fuckas in the ring, butcher style....he didnt fight just to go 12 rounds...he didnt dance around, he earned his way to the fucken top....it aint his fault people were to busy sucking boom boom's dick...chavez is a true champ, and maybe the best ever...but because he's mexican, he rarely even gets talked about...

but dont let sugar ray get brought up into a conversation, with his 30 something fights, he gets way more love than chavez could ever even dream of.....

chavez is a fucken legend, and you know damn well he gets put at the bottom of the barrel cause of his country.....look at salvador sanchez, fought some of the best fighters, no "BUMS" (how you non-fighters call them) and does he even get brought up in the same sentance as any black or white american fighters...


in 5 years, people wont even remember finito lopez at all....but they'll still suck the foreskin off marcianos fucken dick.....YOU TELL ME WHY
Marciano sucked that white boy couldn't even carry Larry's jock strap.

[bigtime9]

fuck you, if he was black or puerto rican you'd be sucking his dick throug the screen so much your lips would look like reggies.....:lol:

if jcc was black he might have been able to at least win 4 rounds against sweet pea. but alas he is a mexi-cannot when it comes to fighting prime opposition. he got embarrassed in the biggest fight of his career against sweet pea and quit against frankie randall to win a title.

the guy couldn't even win 4 titles in 4 weightclasses the true hallmark of an elite fighter. jcc was highly overrated and he barely makes my top 75.

so quit your whining and go buckle a real elite fighters shoes like PBF:lol:

[Wilhelm]

who gives a shit what he did early in his career, look at what the man did in his prime..... His early career is WHY he was at 89-0 instead of 30-0.


he brutalized m'fuckas in the ring, butcher style....he didnt fight just to go 12 rounds...he didnt dance around, he earned his way to the fucken top....it aint his fault people were to busy sucking boom boom's dick Yeah, he was a great fighter. He was the real top dog in his day. He was #1 P4P for a long time, so don’t pretend no one noticed him.



...chavez is a true champ, Yes.


and maybe the best ever... No.

but because he's mexican, he rarely even gets talked about... Bullshit. His RECORD never gets talked about because it was built on tons and tons of nobodies.



but dont let sugar ray get brought up into a conversation, with his 30 something fights, he gets way more love than chavez could ever even dream of..... You used JCC’s lack of an amateur career as a reason why he gets to skate on fighting so many bums, but does SRL’s gold medal mean that we should count his wins there as well? Does that mean Mark Breland was 130-0 when he lost as a pro? Come on.




chavez is a fucken legend, and you know damn well he gets put at the bottom of the barrel cause of his country.....look at salvador sanchez, fought some of the best fighters, no "BUMS" (how you non-fighters call them) and does he even get brought up in the same sentance as any black or white american fighters...


Yeah he’s a legend, because of his fights and the way he fought and the length of time he was dominant. But he was NOT great because of the numbers 89-0.

And who the fuck are you talking to who craps on Salvador Sanchez? Anyone who’s not a total fucking tool knows all about him and probably has his fights with Gomez and Nelson. I do at least, and he sure as HELL is a top fighter all time.

You need to stop with this crying about how no one respects Mexican fighters. I’ve never ever known you to be such a puss as this about anything. I'm really surprised. Nutthugging Mexican fighters because you’re Mexican is fine; that just goes with the territory of the fight game and national pride. But this is retarded. How many “who would win, great fighter X or JCC” threads do you need to see? Damn.

[Wilhelm]

Freddy my friend, I have always enjoyed reading your posts and have rarely disagreed with you. With this I think you may be wasting your breath. Anyone who takes boxing seriously and can be taken seriously considers JCC among the best. I personally have never taken a fighters nationality into account when I am looking at his resume. What I'm trying to say is, you shouldn't give a shit about people who look down on him because he is Mexican. You are absolutly right with what you say about how some people rank him lower because of his race, but you shouldn't be starting flame wars with people like that, you already know the result. I'm not taking down to you brother, just letting you know what I think.

Because of his dominance and longevity, NOT because of a blown up set up numbers next to his name!

[tays001]

it's simple...





















CAUSE HE'S MEXICAN
nope cuz he didn't retire with the record. and cuz of the draw just like recardo lopez his 50-0 has 1 draw:good

[tays001]

Had he retired with an 88-0 record, people would view it as the standard for boxing - surpassing Marciano's 49-0. But he didn't, so it's not...simple as that

Dnt forget its that MArciano was also a Heaveyweight and that also the difference he did it with the crown jewel of sports the heaveyweight title still around his waist never being beaten:good

[Rollo]

How come no one recognises Chavez’s unbeaten record?

People always talk about Marciano’s 49-0, not even in terms of heavyweight I mean… like Calzaghe often states how he doesn’t want to break his record out of respect (laughable really as he has never been an undisputed champion i.e. the man… and who has he actually beat? A green Lacy? An old Eubank?).

I know Chavez’s record was very controversial up to that 90 fight unbeaten streak, but still… a record is a record.

Discuss…

Okay then, heavyweight Brian Nielsen was 49-0 before losing to Dick Ryan. You still think a record is a record?

[Artani]

His record cant be conseder because he dident fight never for world title.

[tays001]

This is what I'm talking about. I might not have explained it well enough. But this is the instance I'm talking about.

"For many years all the leading record books, including both Pugilato and The Ring Record Book, recorded the first loss of Julio Cesar Chavez as being by disqualification....
This has since been changed to a knockout victory for Chavez, based on confirmation from the local boxing commission in Culiacan that it altered the verdict the following day.
Ramon Felix, manager of Chavez, happened to be a member of the Culiacan commission at the time."
The A-Z of World Boxing by Bert Blewett (1996) at p. 341.

That was the 12th fight of his career.

wow thanks never knew this

[bandeedo]

chavez was unstoppable in his prime, right around the time he dismantled el chapo. as far as him not geting enough credit, i believe he is recognized as something very special by fans who have watched other all time greats at the time the fight was made, so you remember the context and how good his opposition really was. you have a lot of very young fans here who never watched or got an accurate asessment of the opposition that these great fighters of the past faced. since they dont know anything about them they dismiss them as sparring partners. these same fans will then turn around and tell you that someone like roy jones is one of the best ever, not knowing that in twenty years new boxing fans are not going to know anything about any of roys opposition other than hopkins. chavez had one of the best left hooks, best chin, best record, best ring generalship, biggest following and best entertainment return for your dollar of all time. he never gained mainstream recognition because he never learned to speak english. that also explains why many american boxers are more financially successful than more talented fighters from non english speaking countries.

[tays001]

Marciano sucked that white boy couldn't even carry Larry's jock strap.
and ali's rope a dope got him punch drunk i guess he aint the greatest

and larry holmes is a punk with no balls :lol:

[sthomas]

I and most people I talk to pretty much agree that Chavez is one of the greatest ever. I have never heard anyone with half a brain say anything negative about the guy when he was in his prime. I wish there were more guys like Chavez out there fighten. His unbeaten streak was amazing, anyone who thinks otherwise knows nothing about world class competition in any walk of life.

This race/nationality crap gets old but keeps the juices flowing I guess. I didn’t know that people seriously disrespect fighters because of their race/nationality. I think they're just talkin shit to get a rise out of people. The fact that there are so many different races/nationals fighting at the elite level pretty much shows me that it matters even less what color you are or where you are from.

[quintonjacksonfan]

His first 35 fights should not even count. Most of his opponents had no wins

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[C Money]

Man..... Chavez is a warrior and a LEGEND. DQ or not? The man was a whirl wind who blew threw like a tornado.

Meldrick taylor was supposed to be the ANSWER and he was, all the way to the FINAL SECONDS:-( The fight was stopped in Chavez's favor.:yikes

Man deserves respect and didnt back down:yep

Now Jr. on the other hand?? Yea this is the one with the PADDED RECORD:good His dad was the real article, his son hasnt come close to proving that YET:nono

[hitman_hatton1]

Check his record on boxrec

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

He was 39-0 before he fought anyone with a decent record (Adriano Arreola who was 21-4-0 at the time).

There were loads of tremendous wins after that to get to 89-0-1 though so I definitely agree that his record should be given more credit.

Still the best Mexican fighter of all time? Or have Barrera, Morales and JM Marquez surpassed him?

yeah good post. :good

chavez is still no1 mexican for me. :bbb

[stuistylee]

who gives a shit what he did early in his career, look at what the man did in his prime.....

he brutalized m'fuckas in the ring, butcher style....he didnt fight just to go 12 rounds...he didnt dance around, he earned his way to the fucken top....it aint his fault people were to busy sucking boom boom's dick...chavez is a true champ, and maybe the best ever...but because he's mexican, he rarely even gets talked about...

but dont let sugar ray get brought up into a conversation, with his 30 something fights, he gets way more love than chavez could ever even dream of.....

chavez is a fucken legend, and you know damn well he gets put at the bottom of the barrel cause of his country.....look at salvador sanchez, fought some of the best fighters, no "BUMS" (how you non-fighters call them) and does he even get brought up in the same sentance as any black or white american fighters...


in 5 years, people wont even remember finito lopez at all....but they'll still suck the foreskin off marcianos fucken dick.....YOU TELL ME WHYim with ya freddy...i love julio...one of my fav things i have is the ring mag where julio appeared on the cover 4 the first time...j.c is my all time fav...:bbb

[freddy-wak]

if jcc was black he might have been able to at least win 4 rounds against sweet pea. but alas he is a mexi-cannot when it comes to fighting prime opposition. he got embarrassed in the biggest fight of his career against sweet pea and quit against frankie randall to win a title.

the guy couldn't even win 4 titles in 4 weightclasses the true hallmark of an elite fighter. jcc was highly overrated and he barely makes my top 75.

so quit your whining and go buckle a real elite fighters shoes like PBF:lol:


your a prime example of a ignorant fan....i guess it's that easy to be a floyd fan huh....pick the undefeated american and just stand by one fighter.....

[freddy-wak]

His early career is WHY he was at 89-0 instead of 30-0.

Yeah, he was a great fighter. He was the real top dog in his day. He was #1 P4P for a long time, so don’t pretend no one noticed him.


Yes.

No.
Bullshit. His RECORD never gets talked about because it was built on tons and tons of nobodies.

You used JCC’s lack of an amateur career as a reason why he gets to skate on fighting so many bums, but does SRL’s gold medal mean that we should count his wins there as well? Does that mean Mark Breland was 130-0 when he lost as a pro? Come on.




Yeah he’s a legend, because of his fights and the way he fought and the length of time he was dominant. But he was NOT great because of the numbers 89-0.

And who the fuck are you talking to who craps on Salvador Sanchez? Anyone who’s not a total fucking tool knows all about him and probably has his fights with Gomez and Nelson. I do at least, and he sure as HELL is a top fighter all time.

You need to stop with this crying about how no one respects Mexican fighters. I’ve never ever known you to be such a puss as this about anything. I'm really surprised. Nutthugging Mexican fighters because you’re Mexican is fine; that just goes with the territory of the fight game and national pride. But this is retarded. How many “who would win, great fighter X or JCC” threads do you need to see? Damn.


aint nobody crying, just speaking the truth homie...those of you to blind to realize fail bigtime when it comes down to shit like this.....ya'll know race is a big part of boxing, but many chose to ignore it.....

[freddy-wak]

somebody tell me why the fuck boom boom mancini and gatti get more props and recognition than chavez....

[sweet_scientist]

somebody tell me why the fuck boom boom mancini and gatti get more props and recognition than chavez....

Show me one article which suggests either Ray or Arturo could carry Chavez's spit bucket.

Chavez was getting his dick sucked mightily throughout his prime, he was considered p4p no.1 for a good 4 years instead of Sweet Pea who was REALLY the no.1 p4p, and there were even articles being written about him and his possibility of surpassing Sugar Ray Robinson leading up to the Whitaker fight.

Gatti and Mancini get loved by Italians like Chavez gets loved by Mexicans, but everyone that knows the sport knows that Chavez was a great fighter, and Gatti and Mancini were not.

[sues2nd]

How come no one recognises Chavez’s unbeaten record?

People always talk about Marciano’s 49-0, not even in terms of heavyweight I mean… like Calzaghe often states how he doesn’t want to break his record out of respect (laughable really as he has never been an undisputed champion i.e. the man… and who has he actually beat? A green Lacy? An old Eubank?).

I know Chavez’s record was very controversial up to that 90 fight unbeaten streak, but still… a record is a record.

Discuss…

Cause he lost to Whitaker....87-1-0.....

On top of that, he fought mostly terrible fighters. Stayed very busy, but mostly against guys that shouldnt have even been able to spar with him, let alone fight for his title.

I have all the respect in the world for JCC, but seriously....

[Cruiser1]

I don't need somebody's list to tell me how good Chavez was and I don't think he's being overlooked cuz he's Mexican. Real boxing fans acknowledge his greatness.

[freddy-wak]

I don't need somebody's list to tell me how good Chavez was and I don't think he's being overlooked cuz he's Mexican. Real boxing fans acknowledge his greatness.

thanks man, that humbled me a bit....and i tend to not really get involved with conversations about chavez, but sometimes i can't help it.....when people question his place in history, it just pisses me off.....but as long as i know whats up, it's all good :good :good

[Cruiser1]

thanks man, that humbled me a bit....and i tend to not really get involved with conversations about chavez, but sometimes i can't help it.....when people question his place in history, it just pisses me off.....but as long as i know whats up, it's all good :good :good

I'm the same way with Holyfield.

[Shake]

Julio Cesar Chavez is in my opinion a much greater fighter than Marciano, historically, resume-wise, pound-for-pound, or any other way.

[pejevan]

JCC's resume is not unusual prior to the PPV years. Fighters who are already champions would fight tomato cans the next fight. Example, Duran after he Esteban De Jesus fight, fought Viruet (14-3-0) and Obando (0-3-0). And if you go along his resume, he even fought Jeorge Suero (0-0-0) fighter, and yet he was already a champion or past champion.

Despite this, I still consider him top 10 ATG. People have hang-ups with the X-0-0 record because only a few achieve such distinction (with my imited boxing knowledge, I actually can not name any fighter except Marciano). So that distinction is always associated with Rocky. But if you look at Marciano's record himself, he is not dissimilar to JCC. His first real fight was against Starza, his 28th professional fight.

Regardless of their records, they are both great champions. Had their win -loss column been less stellar, they are still great, great champions.

[Rollo]

His record cant be conseder because he dident fight never for world title.

So a record isn´t just a record after all..........?

[joe the great]

Probably becuase he wasn't a heavyweight.

[Chief_Second]

Uh, maybe it's because of all those Tiajuana taxi drivers he fought to pad that record up?? :lol:

Seriously - it's because of a) the draw; and b) the fact that he did not retire with the record intact.

if you know your boxing history, chavez has more than 40 top fighters on his record who were former champions or contenders at the time - that's a good ratio

[saul_ir34]

Yea he is underrated by ignoarant fans or common people but all of us serious boxing fans will always recognize him as one of the best ever. top 3 in my book.