Dana White is a DISGRACE...

[Popkins]

...if he authorizes the proposed James Toney vs Randy Couture match-up at UFC 118.


To me, that's like Chris Leben or Tito Ortiz right now moving into boxing and being matched with Bernard Hopkins or Evander Holyfield in their very first pro fight.

In other words, it just would not happen, because it's utterly ridiculous.


Randy Couture has so, so much experience and such a wide, strong skillset. To put a rank novice in terms of MMA in with such a guy is a suicide mission, he is going to completely and utterly dominate and humiliate Toney from the very first bell.

How the hell can a guy who beat Brandon Vera and went to points with Big Nog not long ago realistically be matched with someone who has never even had a single fight before?


The only answer can be that White wants to punish Toney for his mouth and make an example out of him to show the fans that boxers can't just walk into MMA and be successful.

Which I think is absolutely shameful because Toney is an overweight 40 year old with no experience, and should not be used in this way.

Repulsive.

:-(

[jimmie]

Yeah and this asshole claims he isnt into freakshows.

[scurlaruntings]

Yeah and this asshole claims he isnt into freakshows.
Im going to assume you're not being facetious. As Dana made it very clear during the PRIDE era that he hated freak shows. But his world heavy champ is a former WWE standout at 4-1 and now he's sanctioned Toney Vs Couture.

[jimmie]

Im going to assume you're not being facetious. As Dana made it very clear during the PRIDE era that he hated freak shows. But his world heavy champ is a former WWE standout at 4-1 and now he's sanctioned Toney Vs Couture.

Yes but with Lesnar you can say he has a great wrestling background which is more suited for MMA then boxing and he did have 1 MMA fight before coming in. This is a true freakshow and so is hyping Kimbo as a triple main event when they didnt even do that with the scheduled Fitch vs Alves rematch last month.

[codeman99998]

I say it's good. I am sick and tired of boxers running their fucking mouth about how MMA fighters have no skills and can't fight. Let him fight Randy. Randy fought Vitor Belfort in his third fight. Brock Lesnar fought Frank Mir in his second fight. Forrest Griffin fought Dan Severn in his first fight.

This isn't boxing. The UFC has no interest in padding the record of an aged Toney by giving him multiple gimme opponents. Toney has achieved the highest level of success in his martial art and because of this he gets a chance at a good fighter in his debut.

If Randy pounds him down I say that's what he gets for opening his fat mouth. If Toney wins I say GOOD he is a fighter with real MMA potential. Shit, Randy Couture is 142 years old anyways. I say that this is a fight that, as a fan, I will gladly pay for.

[scurlaruntings]

Yes but with Lesnar you can say he has a great wrestling background which is more suited for MMA then boxing and he did have 1 MMA fight before coming in. This is a true freakshow and so is hyping Kimbo as a triple main event when they didnt even do that with the scheduled Fitch vs Alves rematch last month.Agreed. But it still stands to reason that there "champion" in their glamour division is a guy who was a WWE wrestler and a mere 4 - 1. Plus the way he has back peddaled on Kimbo after all the shit he gave EliteXC not cool.

[codeman99998]

Yes but with Lesnar you can say he has a great wrestling background which is more suited for MMA then boxing and he did have 1 MMA fight before coming in. This is a true freakshow and so is hyping Kimbo as a triple main event when they didnt even do that with the scheduled Fitch vs Alves rematch last month.

Which other fighters with "great" boxing backgrounds have ever even attempted to transition into MMA. I agree 100% that wrestling is better, but let's give boxing a chance. No boxer as accomplished as Brock Lesnar was at wrestling has ever attempted to fight in MMA (unless you count the Ali Farce, or the 300 year old Mercer). Allow boxing to prove itself in the cage.

[jimmie]

Agreed. But it still stands to reason that there "champion" in their glamour division is a guy who was a WWE wrestler and a mere 4 - 1. Plus the way he has back peddaled on Kimbo after all the shit he gave EliteXC not cool.

Well for me the previous job Lesnar had dont mean much. Everyone has to have some previous job. Ive decorated Donuts, cleaned toliets etc and id hope if I where to ever win a MMA Championship it wouldnt make me look all less of a Champion. Lesnar is 4-1 but lets be real first off he shouldnt even be fighting some of those guys considering he has like 50 pounds on most and hes not naturally that size anyway and he hasnt even really faced the best. Couture and Mir where good Heavys but not as good or should I say great as Fedor or even Barnett.

[BewareofDawg]

I am against the idea of freakshow matches as well, but in this case I'm all for James Toney getting his fucking ass handed to him. So I'm happy with this matchup. I actually wish he would've put Toney in there with Lesnar or Carwin

[Dave's Top Ten]

It's a big risk by White. UFC has had its criticisms recently and if Randy wrestles him down and submits him / ground and pounds him to an easy win (as expected) then it's another dent in the reputation of the UFC as a serious sport.

On the other hand, if Toney clocks him and takes him out (you never know!), then things get really intruiging !

[jimmie]

It's a big risk by White. UFC has had its criticisms recently and if Randy wrestles him down and submits him / ground and pounds him to an easy win (as expected) then it's another dent in the reputation of the UFC as a serious sport.

On the other hand, if Toney clocks him and takes him out (you never know!), then things get really intruiging !

If Toney went in there and KOed Randy its gotta hurt MMA's crediblity big time. Then that argument of well high level boxers will never do well agianst MMA guys in a MMA fight because a boxer will have KOed one of the ATG Champions in Randy. Right now alot goes back to the Sylvia-Mercer fight but luckily for MMA fans they can point out Kimbo-Mercer where a bum like Kimbo was able to choke out Mercer with a really bad Guillotine. Toney pulls off an upset the whole world will see that and it will make MMA look like a fucking joke. I wouldnt even risk it.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Can't blame him. That's a big money fight.

[BewareofDawg]

It woulld be more interesting if White got Manny Pac to fight Jose Aldo or Uriah Faber

[PNoyFightFanUSN]

The only answer can be that White wants to punish Toney for his mouth

If Toney stalked me incessantly for a contract because he isn't doing shit with his boxing career, jawing constantly about how he can knock out ANYONE in the UFC and they're garbage fighters and all that other shit, I'd do the same exact thing.

[boxingcar]

if Toney kos couture...oh well..he's never been known for his solid chin , plus he's in he's 46...

If Couture takes Toney down at will & finishes him by tko or ud...oh well...it's not like it would be a huge embarrassment for boxing since Toney isn't a wrestler nor a bjj artist...

I think think both mma & boxing fans should enjoy this ridiculous matchup...i mean relax...it's not for the belt...just entertainment. The reason why Dana went ahead with this one is because he knows (and we know)...that the curiosity factor alone = huge ratings.

[scurlaruntings]

if Toney kos couture...oh well..he's never been known for his solid chin , plus he's in he's 46...

If Couture takes Toney down at will & finishes him by tko or ud...oh well...it's not like it would be a huge embarrassment for boxing since Toney isn't a wrestler nor a bjj artist...

I think think both mma & boxing fans should enjoy this ridiculous matchup...i mean relax...it's not for the belt...just entertainment. The reason why Dana went ahead with this one is because he knows (and we know)...that the curiosity factor alone = huge ratings.But Dana doesnt like freakshows? We know this because Dana said so.. Oh wait a minute..

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Why bother getting so wrapped up in what Dana White says, or has said in the past? You all know damn well that you would be tuning in to watch Couture vs Toney. I know that I would.

People always act so surprised, and are so anxious to point out every time that Dana says one thing about another organization and then turns around and does the same type of thing. Of course he is going to down other orgs, their shows, their fighters, ect... He is promoting his own organization. That's his job, and obviously he is doing great at it.

[scurlaruntings]

Ultimately i have no problem with "freakshow" bouts. As long as someone is getting there mug bashed in shit yeah im going to watch. But Dana went out of his way to trash other organisations proclaiming LOUDLY that sideshow bouts wont happen in the UFC. Now we know otherwise..

[codeman99998]

Ultimately i have no problem with "freakshow" bouts. As long as someone is getting there mug bashed in shit yeah im going to watch. But Dana went out of his way to trash other organisations proclaiming LOUDLY that sideshow bouts wont happen in the UFC. Now we know otherwise..

Do you have a problem with THIS particular freakshow bout? Because if not, it kind of makes you a jackass to complain about the guy giving you what you want.

[scurlaruntings]

Do you have a problem with THIS particular freakshow bout? Because if not, it kind of makes you a jackass to complain about the guy giving you what you want.Because MMA fans need to see Toney Vs Couture because that means what exactly? :roll::patsch
As a fan i watch MMA its that simple. Dana is the one that said the UFC wouldnt do sideshow bouts. He's clearly reneged on that. Either way this bout has ZERO significance from an MMA standpoint. So if you want to argue the semantics over this do so on your own.

[Mandanda]

Ultimately i have no problem with "freakshow" bouts. As long as someone is getting there mug bashed in shit yeah im going to watch. But Dana went out of his way to trash other organisations proclaiming LOUDLY that sideshow bouts wont happen in the UFC. Now we know otherwise..
Totally Agree With You.

I will watch out of interest as i'm a boxing fan and a fan of Toney and i be honest i'm not a MMA Purist but i know a little about the sport. But i have seen White on many occasions say he's not into freak show bouts now he's serving up this fight.

I would of thought he'd followed Ken Shamrocks call and build up the boxer give him some winnable fights then throw him in with the big names.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Ultimately i have no problem with "freakshow" bouts. As long as someone is getting there mug bashed in shit yeah im going to watch. But Dana went out of his way to trash other organisations proclaiming LOUDLY that sideshow bouts wont happen in the UFC. Now we know otherwise..
I really don't think this is a freak show bout. I think that is more along the lines of 8' tall super heavyweights fighting against lightweights.

I don't see how taking a world class professional boxer and putting him in the ring against a fighter his own size is a freak show by any means. I think that it's an extremely intriguing fight.

[Sloth]

...if he authorizes the proposed James Toney vs Randy Couture match-up at UFC 118.


To me, that's like Chris Leben or Tito Ortiz right now moving into boxing and being matched with Bernard Hopkins or Evander Holyfield in their very first pro fight.

In other words, it just would not happen, because it's utterly ridiculous.


Randy Couture has so, so much experience and such a wide, strong skillset. To put a rank novice in terms of MMA in with such a guy is a suicide mission, he is going to completely and utterly dominate and humiliate Toney from the very first bell.

How the hell can a guy who beat Brandon Vera and went to points with Big Nog not long ago realistically be matched with someone who has never even had a single fight before?


The only answer can be that White wants to punish Toney for his mouth and make an example out of him to show the fans that boxers can't just walk into MMA and be successful.

Which I think is absolutely shameful because Toney is an overweight 40 year old with no experience, and should not be used in this way.

Repulsive.

:-(



To be fair, Toney thinks he can take out Fedor. He thinks he is the best ever without any experience. Fuck him

[sugarngold]

I like this fight. It's two guys in their forties having a fight. What's wrong with that? Couture has been a sucker for a right hand in the past five years. If anyone can land a right hand on him - it's James Toney. If not - Toney is in for some punishment on the ground. I think it's an intriguing styles matchup.

[Koa]

Toney talks a lot of overconfident shit, that's just how he is.. Doesn't mean he deserves to be thrown in and mauled by a guy who is extremely good, and in his weight class, one of the best guys in the world at controlling other fighters/where the fight goes, how the fight goes.

Randy is old, but he really understands how to control a fight, and take it where he wants it.. Instead of throwing Toney in with someone who is primarily a striker, or someone who vows to trade with him, Dana throws him in with a guy who we know is going to take him down and maul him.

Not getting my money for it.

[T.C.W]

It is a joke, MMA fans should not buy it, it hurts the sport.

Look how can they make a fighter who has never been in the sport before a main event.

Why does the UFC need this.

MMA doesn't need toney. he is washed up, lazy and fat. this is why the likes of HBO and Showtime are done with the guy.

[EL BULLY]

Dana is probably trying to make some kind of point with this matchup. Something like MMA > BOXING.

Maybe he sees this as the beginning of the process of the baton being passed from boxing to MMA (and the UFC in particular) as the dominant global contact sport. I guess he feels there will be a brief period of transition where the two sports with homogenize like the middle section of a Venn diagram, then MMA will take over.

Horrible matchup for JT though. Randy is one one the best fighters for taking a guy down without shooting. First clich JT is on his back getting subbed in under a minute I should imagine. If you want an ex boxer to bring some harcore boxing fans to watch the UFC and maybe start viewing it as a legitimate sport, why pick the fattest most washed up looking big mouth out there?

Dumb all round IMO.

[196osh]

I dont know if he wants to do the MMA>Boxing thing or he would have put Toney in with Jon 'Bones' Jones

[achillesthegreat]

...if he authorizes the proposed James Toney vs Randy Couture match-up at UFC 118.


To me, that's like Chris Leben or Tito Ortiz right now moving into boxing and being matched with Bernard Hopkins or Evander Holyfield in their very first pro fight.

In other words, it just would not happen, because it's utterly ridiculous.


Randy Couture has so, so much experience and such a wide, strong skillset. To put a rank novice in terms of MMA in with such a guy is a suicide mission, he is going to completely and utterly dominate and humiliate Toney from the very first bell.

How the hell can a guy who beat Brandon Vera and went to points with Big Nog not long ago realistically be matched with someone who has never even had a single fight before?


The only answer can be that White wants to punish Toney for his mouth and make an example out of him to show the fans that boxers can't just walk into MMA and be successful.

Which I think is absolutely shameful because Toney is an overweight 40 year old with no experience, and should not be used in this way.

Repulsive.

:-(

This is true. Toney has been thrown in the deep end. If he is dedicated it is a fight he could win but Toney and dedicated do not belong in the same sentence.

You are right though. It is the equivilent of a quality MMA being put in with an old savvy pro like Holyfield or even Hopkins. They would get dominated.

[Francis75]

I dont know if he wants to do the MMA>Boxing thing or he would have put Toney in with Jon 'Bones' Jones

I would be seriously concerned for Toney's welfare if they let Jon Jones fight him.

[Popkins]

It's a big risk by White. UFC has had its criticisms recently and if Randy wrestles him down and submits him / ground and pounds him to an easy win (as expected) then it's another dent in the reputation of the UFC as a serious sport.

On the other hand, if Toney clocks him and takes him out (you never know!), then things get really intruiging !

Two more reasons why this is a pathetically idiotic fight to make (though there is virtually zero chance of the second statement coming true, because Randy will have him on his back before a punch is thrown).

[Popkins]

Can't blame him. That's a big money fight.

Can blame him. It's a very short-sighted decision.

If Toney was allowed to start his MMA career against a suitable opponent and proved successful, then in time he could legitimately face someone like Couture in a bigger money fight than it is now, and that's after all the attention that his build-up fights had got.

Alternatively, if he starts Toney small and Toney fails, White avoids the horrible scenario of Toney being humiliated by Couture, and himself and his organization coming under heavy fire for arranging a freakshow mismatch. At least then he could say he did right by Toney, and it was Toney who fucked up the opportunity.

This is a lose-lose-LOSE situation for White and the UFC. I'm still in shock such an insane decision has been made.

[Popkins]

Toney talks a lot of overconfident shit, that's just how he is.. Doesn't mean he deserves to be thrown in and mauled by a guy who is extremely good, and in his weight class, one of the best guys in the world at controlling other fighters/where the fight goes, how the fight goes.

Randy is old, but he really understands how to control a fight, and take it where he wants it.. Instead of throwing Toney in with someone who is primarily a striker, or someone who vows to trade with him, Dana throws him in with a guy who we know is going to take him down and maul him.

Not getting my money for it.

Great post mate. :good

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Can blame him. It's a very short-sighted decision.

If Toney was allowed to start his MMA career against a suitable opponent and proved successful, then in time he could legitimately face someone like Couture in a bigger money fight than it is now, and that's after all the attention that his build-up fights had got.

Alternatively, if he starts Toney small and Toney fails, White avoids the horrible scenario of Toney being humiliated by Couture, and himself and his organization coming under heavy fire for arranging a freakshow mismatch. At least then he could say he did right by Toney, and it was Toney who fucked up the opportunity.

This is a lose-lose-LOSE situation for White and the UFC. I'm still in shock such an insane decision has been made.
If Toney fights a much lesser MMA fighter and loses... how does that benefit the UFC at all? It isn't as if Toney is in his 20's (or even 30's for that matter), and has time to mold himself into an MMA fighter. Toney is what he is... and we will find out how he stacks up against a true MMA fighter. It's isn't as if Couture himself is in his prime. He's older than Toney and has clearly slid downhill himself. As lethargic as Couture has been on his feet, I wouldn't be amazed if Toney was actually able to land something huge against him and follow it up. Especially considering that Randy moves in for the clinch more than he tries to actually shoot for takedowns.

Now, this is the perfect scenario for the UFC. Couture beats Toney... so what... they just made a ton of money off that PPV. Not only that, it isn't like Toney will be looked down upon for losing to Randy Couture. If Toney beats Couture... can you imagine the next PPV with Toney?

[Kevin_Wright]

I wouldn't pay to watch to washed up old men in an octagon. Hell I probably wont even go to the sports bar to see it.

[james4210]

nobody knows the future, I would have preferred Tony to fight less of a grappler to start with. my gut is telling me Tony is definitely in with a chance.

I bet you a pound to a penny that chuck liddel did not want to fight Toney. and that's the fight we really want to see.

[Hooch]

Is this fight actually happening?

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links] tbs%3Disch:1)

[amhlilhaus]

if toney was just slightly past his prime and kept in great shape then that's one thing. but the reality is he won't learn any new skills and won't get in shape physically so it's gonna be embarrassing no matter what happens.

I like both guys and whoever loses it's a bad deal.

[eltorrente]

The worst thing that could happen with Toney entering the octagon is to match him up with some "no name" MMA guy, and that no-name takes him down and rips his arm off and beats him with it.

If that happened, there would be no real chance of seeing Toney fight a big fight, and make big money. Noone would buy a PPV to see him fight a no-namer, and certainly wouldn't pay to see his second fight after having gotten his arm ripped off.

Toney wants Lesnar, so he'll have to settle on the old-man Couture. Gives fans a fun PPV to watch, UFC makes some money and publicity, and Toney's big mouth will get shut by a 78 year old man. I'll buy the PPV, even though it's only going to last about 22 seconds.

It'll last less time than when untrained Kimbo took Mercer down and crushed him quickly. Couture is going to rape Toney, and everyone will win..

[achillesthegreat]

Jon Jones is cut from the same dynamic athletic cloth that GSP, Silva, Aldo etc are cut from. Jones would Judo throw Toney across the ring inside 30 seconds.

[Popkins]

If Toney fights a much lesser MMA fighter and loses... how does that benefit the UFC at all? It isn't as if Toney is in his 20's (or even 30's for that matter), and has time to mold himself into an MMA fighter. Toney is what he is... and we will find out how he stacks up against a true MMA fighter. It's isn't as if Couture himself is in his prime. He's older than Toney and has clearly slid downhill himself. As lethargic as Couture has been on his feet, I wouldn't be amazed if Toney was actually able to land something huge against him and follow it up. Especially considering that Randy moves in for the clinch more than he tries to actually shoot for takedowns.

Now, this is the perfect scenario for the UFC. Couture beats Toney... so what... they just made a ton of money off that PPV. Not only that, it isn't like Toney will be looked down upon for losing to Randy Couture. If Toney beats Couture... can you imagine the next PPV with Toney?

Are you an MMA fan, or just a boxing fan? I would guess you are purely the latter, because you seem to believe that there is an actual chance of Toney winning. There is not even a microscopic chance. Couture has a world of experience and skill in this sport, there is no way in this world he is going to stand up with Toney, and no way in this world Toney is going to be able to stop it being taken to the mat. This fight is going put serious, serious dents in two things - the reputation of the UFC and MMA as a whole, and a proud boxer's cranium. It's the most insane decision I've EVER witnessed, and is going to be an unmitigated disaster for everyone concerned.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Are you an MMA fan, or just a boxing fan? I would guess you are purely the latter, because you seem to believe that there is an actual chance of Toney winning. There is not even a microscopic chance. Couture has a world of experience and skill in this sport, there is no way in this world he is going to stand up with Toney, and no way in this world Toney is going to be able to stop it being taken to the mat. This fight is going put serious, serious dents in two things - the reputation of the UFC and MMA as a whole, and a proud boxer's cranium. It's the most insane decision I've EVER witnessed, and is going to be an unmitigated disaster for everyone concerned.

Obviously you don't know me well on here. I am a huge MMA fan, as well as a huge boxing fan. My major backround is in wrestling. I have already stated in previous posts that Couture should smash him. However, it is not totally inconceivable that Couture... being as old and lethargic as he has been lately.... gets a little too comfortable on his feet... and gets caught. As smart as Randy is, and as great of a gameplan he usually comes in with. There is usually a point in EVERY fight of his, where he tests the waters on his feet. Not only that, but the way that he pins people against the cage, and works his dirty boxing, grinding them out. That could end up being a horrible spot for him. Toney is very adept at landing brutal uppercuts and hooks when his opponents are draped all over him. Of course not in the same fashion that Randy would be on him, but again.. in that position, Randy quickly separates, strikes, and then gains position again. There are openings in those moments.

That being said, if Couture decides to just shoot takedowns, and ground and pound or submit him... he would completely maul Toney. That's my point though. I think that just about every fighter in the UFC would maul Toney. So, giving him a lesser, no name opponent is asking for disaster. The UFC gains NOTHING by putting Toney in against a no name fighter and having him lose like that. They can't even cash in on him.

So either way... this is the best decision.

[sugarngold]

If Toney fights a much lesser MMA fighter and loses... how does that benefit the UFC at all? It isn't as if Toney is in his 20's (or even 30's for that matter), and has time to mold himself into an MMA fighter. Toney is what he is... and we will find out how he stacks up against a true MMA fighter. It's isn't as if Couture himself is in his prime. He's older than Toney and has clearly slid downhill himself. As lethargic as Couture has been on his feet, I wouldn't be amazed if Toney was actually able to land something huge against him and follow it up. Especially considering that Randy moves in for the clinch more than he tries to actually shoot for takedowns.

Now, this is the perfect scenario for the UFC. Couture beats Toney... so what... they just made a ton of money off that PPV. Not only that, it isn't like Toney will be looked down upon for losing to Randy Couture. If Toney beats Couture... can you imagine the next PPV with Toney?

That's pretty much how I see it. I love the idea of this fight. It's a HOF MMA fighter vs a future HOF boxer. It's a crossroads fight and a classic styles match up.

[eltorrente]

Are you an MMA fan, or just a boxing fan? I would guess you are purely the latter, because you seem to believe that there is an actual chance of Toney winning. There is not even a microscopic chance. Couture has a world of experience and skill in this sport, there is no way in this world he is going to stand up with Toney, and no way in this world Toney is going to be able to stop it being taken to the mat. This fight is going put serious, serious dents in two things - the reputation of the UFC and MMA as a whole, and a proud boxer's cranium. It's the most insane decision I've EVER witnessed, and is going to be an unmitigated disaster for everyone concerned.


How is Toney's MMA experience going to look when he gets demolished by a no-name fighter? ANY mma guy will kill Toney, unless he is stupid enough to stand and strike with him. Any MMA fighter with half a brain will simply take him down and destroy him. :!:

When that happens, what is the chance for Toney to EVER get a big fight, against a "name" opponent? Best to just put him in with a big name opponent, who is older and has fading skills, and maybe- just maybe- he can land a lucky shot. Nope - it won't happen, as Couture will rape him quickly, but at least it'll be a big event and a fun fight to see.

Noone is going to buy a PPV if Toney fights some Joe-Blow no-namer, and he'll lose in that fight anyway - so give him his wish (and MMA fan's wishes) and get him a big fight. Hell, he wants Lesnar, of all people... he'll just have to settle on Randy..

[codeman99998]

Are you an MMA fan, or just a boxing fan? I would guess you are purely the latter, because you seem to believe that there is an actual chance of Toney winning. There is not even a microscopic chance. Couture has a world of experience and skill in this sport, there is no way in this world he is going to stand up with Toney, and no way in this world Toney is going to be able to stop it being taken to the mat. This fight is going put serious, serious dents in two things - the reputation of the UFC and MMA as a whole, and a proud boxer's cranium. It's the most insane decision I've EVER witnessed, and is going to be an unmitigated disaster for everyone concerned.

How exactly does UFC fighter destroying a world class boxer in the cage destroy the reputation of the UFC? If anything I think it enhances the reputation.

[ozziebattler]

That's pretty much how I see it. I love the idea of this fight. It's a HOF MMA fighter vs a future HOF boxer. It's a crossroads fight and a classic styles match up.

I dont have a problem with this fight happening either.Atleast Toney has ELITE level striking skills(Hands)..

Not much people(especially in MMA) can bring that to the table..

I really dont know why people are getting so pissed with this bout taking place..Its just one of the fights that will be on the card.

[the beaver]

I'm a boxing fan but if Toney wants to bad mouth these UFC fighter throw him to the wolves.......... don't have a problem with Dana on this one.

[ozziebattler]

I'm a boxing fan but if Toney wants to bad mouth these UFC fighter throw him to the wolves.......... don't have a problem with Dana on this one.

Toney followed Dana around like the Plague wanting to BEAT ON the likes of Lesnar and co..

Its now happening..No big deal..

If he wins then it will be though.

[Popkins]

How exactly does UFC fighter destroying a world class boxer in the cage destroy the reputation of the UFC? If anything I think it enhances the reputation.

How is Toney's MMA experience going to look when he gets demolished by a no-name fighter? ANY mma guy will kill Toney, unless he is stupid enough to stand and strike with him. Any MMA fighter with half a brain will simply take him down and destroy him. :!:

When that happens, what is the chance for Toney to EVER get a big fight, against a "name" opponent? Best to just put him in with a big name opponent, who is older and has fading skills, and maybe- just maybe- he can land a lucky shot. Nope - it won't happen, as Couture will rape him quickly, but at least it'll be a big event and a fun fight to see.

Noone is going to buy a PPV if Toney fights some Joe-Blow no-namer, and he'll lose in that fight anyway - so give him his wish (and MMA fan's wishes) and get him a big fight. Hell, he wants Lesnar, of all people... he'll just have to settle on Randy..

Obviously you don't know me well on here. I am a huge MMA fan, as well as a huge boxing fan. My major backround is in wrestling. I have already stated in previous posts that Couture should smash him. However, it is not totally inconceivable that Couture... being as old and lethargic as he has been lately.... gets a little too comfortable on his feet... and gets caught. As smart as Randy is, and as great of a gameplan he usually comes in with. There is usually a point in EVERY fight of his, where he tests the waters on his feet. Not only that, but the way that he pins people against the cage, and works his dirty boxing, grinding them out. That could end up being a horrible spot for him. Toney is very adept at landing brutal uppercuts and hooks when his opponents are draped all over him. Of course not in the same fashion that Randy would be on him, but again.. in that position, Randy quickly separates, strikes, and then gains position again. There are openings in those moments.

That being said, if Couture decides to just shoot takedowns, and ground and pound or submit him... he would completely maul Toney. That's my point though. I think that just about every fighter in the UFC would maul Toney. So, giving him a lesser, no name opponent is asking for disaster. The UFC gains NOTHING by putting Toney in against a no name fighter and having him lose like that. They can't even cash in on him.

So either way... this is the best decision.


This post answers all of these concerns:


If Toney was allowed to start his MMA career against a suitable opponent and proved successful, then in time he could legitimately face someone like Couture in a bigger money fight than it is now, and that's after all the attention that his build-up fights had got.

Alternatively, if he starts Toney small and Toney fails, White avoids the horrible scenario of Toney being humiliated by Couture, and himself and his organization coming under heavy fire for arranging a freakshow mismatch. At least then he could say he did right by Toney, and it was Toney who fucked up the opportunity.

This is a lose-lose-LOSE situation for White and the UFC.


Seriously, wait and see the fall-out from this mismatch, and see who was right.

[eltorrente]

Seriously, wait and see the fall-out from this mismatch, and see who was right.

I still don't understand who you think would be a "suitable" opponent for Toney. (?)

ANY UFC fighter would destroy Toney in a humiliating fashion. He has no chance no matter who he fights.

[Popkins]

I still don't understand who you think would be a "suitable" opponent for Toney. (?)

ANY UFC fighter would destroy Toney in a humiliating fashion. He has no chance no matter who he fights.

I agree with you to an extent, but to throw Toney in with Couture in his first fight is the same as someone like Leben or Ortiz being chucked in with a Hopkins or Holyfield in their 1st fight as a pro boxer - it's ludicrous.

Toney would have a microscopic chance of beating someone who likes to stand up. Toney would have a microscopic chance against someone who is a grade C MMA fighter, a journeyman.

Randy Couture is neither of those things. He is an extremely experienced, extremely skilled wrestler who is still competing at top 10 divisional level. It's a horrid choice of a bout.

[codeman99998]

I agree with you to an extent, but to throw Toney in with Couture in his first fight is the same as someone like Leben or Ortiz being chucked in with a Hopkins or Holyfield in their 1st fight as a pro boxer - it's ludicrous.

Toney would have a microscopic chance of beating someone who likes to stand up. Toney would have a microscopic chance against someone who is a grade C MMA fighter, a journeyman.

Randy Couture is neither of those things. He is an extremely experienced, extremely skilled wrestler who is still competing at top 10 divisional level. It's a horrid choice of a bout.

No it isn't the same and if you think it is you don't really understand Mixed Martial Arts. Against Randy Couture Toney has superior hands and if he can utilize those hands he can win. Against Hopkins or Holyfield in a boxing match Leben or Ortiz have superior nothing.

[RUSKULL]

I am against the idea of freakshow matches as well, but in this case I'm all for James Toney getting his fucking ass handed to him. So I'm happy with this matchup. I actually wish he would've put Toney in there with Lesnar or Carwin

Picture Brock Lesnar slamming Toney's ass....................

Priceless! :lol:

Frank Mir would humiliate Toney too, he has more than just a good standup game.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

This post answers all of these concerns:





Seriously, wait and see the fall-out from this mismatch, and see who was right.
Honestly, your reasoning is just silly. The UFC is NOT going to "come under heavy fire" for putting an elite, world class boxer up against Randy Couture. We are talking about a two HOF fighters. Toney isn't young enough to form into an all around MMA fighter. It's silly to waste whatever short amount of time Toney has in the UFC by putting him in a hopeless fight against a no-name fighter that will probably beat him. Even if Toney beat some nobody that they through in front of him... it isn't like anyone who has a problem with Toney fighting Couture would suddenly have a huge change of heart. It's just silly.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with Toney vs Couture. Especially given the fact that Randy is a good bit older than Toney, and clearly on the slide himself.

Let's say that Randy fights smart, shoots in... takes Toney down and wins in dominating fashion. So what? Toney just lost to Randy Couture. They could still sell big by putting Toney up against a guy like Chuck Liddell, or Wanderlei Silva. Knowing that there will be a better chance of those guys standing with him and creating an exciting winnable fight for James. Let's say that James loses to those guys. Big deal... still two very well known great MMA fighters. So, in Toney's 3rd on his UFC contract he can be given a fight against someone like Kimbo. Once again... people would still tune in like crazy to watch that match-up. In other words... you can always make reasonable match-ups with a guy like James Toney that people would love to tune in and see. However, you can't climb UP the ladder if he gets beat by a lesser fighter first. It is easy to come down the ladder after a loss and find fun matchups that everyone will want to see.

[james4210]

One could Not possibly make it in the UFC without years of training in MMA.

well what about this guy, [Only registered and activated users can see links]
is world wrestling entertainment more of a preparation for the UFC than being a world champion heavyweight boxer?

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

One could Not possibly make it in the UFC without years of training in MMA.

well what about this guy, [Only registered and activated users can see links]
is world wrestling entertainment more of a preparation for the UFC than being a world champion heavyweight boxer?
Are you forgetting about his extensive and successful REAL wrestling experience? WWE was nothing more than a money maker for him. It actually really helped his marketing for MMA though. The man comes over with a shitload of fans/haters, ect... people who are going to pay to watch him fight.

[Calroid]

Honestly, your reasoning is just silly. The UFC is NOT going to "come under heavy fire" for putting an elite, world class boxer up against Randy Couture. We are talking about a two HOF fighters. Toney isn't young enough to form into an all around MMA fighter. It's silly to waste whatever short amount of time Toney has in the UFC by putting him in a hopeless fight against a no-name fighter that will probably beat him. Even if Toney beat some nobody that they through in front of him... it isn't like anyone who has a problem with Toney fighting Couture would suddenly have a huge change of heart. It's just silly.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with Toney vs Couture. Especially given the fact that Randy is a good bit older than Toney, and clearly on the slide himself.

Let's say that Randy fights smart, shoots in... takes Toney down and wins in dominating fashion. So what? Toney just lost to Randy Couture. They could still sell big by putting Toney up against a guy like Chuck Liddell, or Wanderlei Silva. Knowing that there will be a better chance of those guys standing with him and creating an exciting winnable fight for James. Let's say that James loses to those guys. Big deal... still two very well known great MMA fighters. So, in Toney's 3rd on his UFC contract he can be given a fight against someone like Kimbo. Once again... people would still tune in like crazy to watch that match-up. In other words... you can always make reasonable match-ups with a guy like James Toney that people would love to tune in and see. However, you can't climb UP the ladder if he gets beat by a lesser fighter first. It is easy to come down the ladder after a loss and find fun matchups that everyone will want to see.


Good post.

[eltorrente]

One could Not possibly make it in the UFC without years of training in MMA.

well what about this guy, [Only registered and activated users can see links]
is world wrestling entertainment more of a preparation for the UFC than being a world champion heavyweight boxer?


During his collegiate wrestling career, he managed to win the 1998 NJCAA Heavyweight and 2000 NCAA Heavyweight Championships. Further, Lesnar was both a two-time NJCAA and NCAA All American, and placed second at the NCAA's in 1999. All told, he posted an astounding 106-5 overall wrestling record over four years in college. :deal

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Good post.
Thank you.

[thejokerswild]

As a keen boxing fan I am utterly against this. Dana White and James Toney are dumbarses.

Randy Couture though...:think:lol:

[ozziebattler]

During his collegiate wrestling career, he managed to win the 1998 NJCAA Heavyweight and 2000 NCAA Heavyweight Championships. Further, Lesnar was both a two-time NJCAA and NCAA All American, and placed second at the NCAA's in 1999. All told, he posted an astounding 106-5 overall wrestling record over four years in college. :deal

Being a OZZIE its hard to gauge a great wrestler as we dont really have it here...Especially not at a school level growing up..

But those stats definetly paint a picture.He was obviously a outstanding Wrestler.I know i hear over and over again from Rogan and co about this guy and that guy being a all american wrestler but dont hear many that have had success like Lesnars stats say.

[Popkins]

Honestly, your reasoning is just silly. The UFC is NOT going to "come under heavy fire" for putting an elite, world class boxer up against Randy Couture.

Yes, they are.

James Toney has been at the top of boxing since 1991, almost two decades spanning around 80 fights. And he has never been stopped, and never been close to being stopped.

Now, this proud warrior who has taken so much time, will, effort and punishment to construct that record is going to be put in an unwinnable situation, against an unfair opponent, and unceremoniously dumped onto the mat, suffer the indignity of someone sitting on top of him, and then being crudely and brutally hammer-fisted into a bloody, pitiful mess.

Toney will be humiliated, Randy Couture will be slightly embarrassed at being made participate in such a pointless, easy and unfair contest, and the press will see this for what it is.

You can spin this any way you want, talk about making money and clever marketing blah blah bullshit, but if the UFC as an organization and MMA as a sport want to retain and improve credibility, then this fight is a MAJOR error.

As I said, if Tito Ortiz suddenly turned up at a boxing match and said to the media "I'll murder Quitali Bitchko, tell Jose Suliman I'll take his WBC belt by KO anytime", do you think Suliman would sanction that fight??! Obviously not. He knows that boxing is a sport with a proud history and standards, and this would never be devalued and disregarded purely for the purposes of a freakshow designed to make a quick buck.

One of the stigmas attached to MMA is that of the freakshow, of an audience which wants 7ft monsters pitched against sumo wrestlers, of WWE style corny 'bad blood' matches where fights are organized due to the public dislike of the fighters. If MMA is ever to merit inclusion in the Olympics as has been spoken of, and if it is ever to rival boxing as a legitimate, serious sport, then it has to do everything possible to shake off these detrimental dated connotations.

And allowing a complete MMA novice to get pulverized by an enormously experienced ex-champ and current top 10 fighter purely because he is a big name is just pathetic. Let's wait and observe the fight and the fall-out, see who is right. :good

[Wilhelm]

It's a big risk by White. UFC has had its criticisms recently and if Randy wrestles him down and submits him / ground and pounds him to an easy win (as expected) then it's another dent in the reputation of the UFC as a serious sport.

On the other hand, if Toney clocks him and takes him out (you never know!), then things get really intruiging !

WTF? How does showing the whole point of the sport dent its reputation? Couture will take Toney down and GNP/sub him because that's what works best. The UFC has proven that the most important thing is to be able to take a guy down or to stop a takedown. If you can't stop it, then the next best thing is to be able to defend subs. If you can't do either than you're not any good and you fucking lose. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THE SPORT.

[cryptic]

id love to see this fight. toneys gonna knock randy c. out cold.

[2ironmt]

if danny batchelder can hang with toney at this stage, coulture might be able to beat toney at an all standing affair (so long as he can dirty box too).

[james4210]

I Like this thread. I take the point about Lesners wrestling record I didn't know about that.

I'd just like to throw in, that due to the incredibly high financial rewards of heavyweight boxing, i.e. fighters earning millions per fight. that James Tony is or has been at the top of an absolutely colossal pyramid of other fighters. I only mention this because I get the sense that some people don't think much of boxing or boxers. To get to the top you really have to be something special.

One other thing, has it occurred to anyone, that this fight is going to bring over millions of boxing viewers and media interest. and according to many here they are going to see Randy dump Tony on his ass and submit him in 20 seconds.

So from many people's first experience of MMA could possibly be one of the most boring fights ever. even for an MMA fan like myself fight that end like that are incredibly boring and frustrating.

Happily like quite a few others, I think Tony is going to flatten Randy. Because Randy will have never come across anyone who has punching skills in the same league as Tony.

[Nuke]

I can see it going either way, the obvious woul dbe Randy immediately taking down Toney and ground and pounding him out or for 5 rounds, but I could also see Randy being an idiot and trying to out strike Toney. Randy has had great lateral movement and head movement against some dangerous opponants and I can see him trying this on Toney, if that is the case I also see him going to sleep very early in the fight. Bottomline is the whole fight is dependant on what randy wants to do.

[2ironmt]

I can see it going either way, the obvious woul dbe Randy immediately taking down Toney and ground and pounding him out or for 5 rounds, but I could also see Randy being an idiot and trying to out strike Toney. Randy has had great lateral movement and head movement against some dangerous opponants and I can see him trying this on Toney, if that is the case I also see him going to sleep very early in the fight. Bottomline is the whole fight is dependant on what randy wants to do. who has toney put to sleep lately? some of u guys are ignoring that toney is 40 years old and has been plodding and severely out of shape for some years and lacks power at HW

[codeman99998]

who has toney put to sleep lately? some of u guys are ignoring that toney is 40 years old and has been plodding and severely out of shape for some years and lacks power at HW

It doesn't matter. Toney can KO Couture just because his punches are so accurate and land so cleanly. Most MMA fighters don't have the chin or striking defense of pro boxers.

[wolunt]

If Toney and his "check kicks" can't compete with the 45 year old Randy, he just needs to go away. I hope Randy grounds his arse in the first 20 seconds than beat him silly on the ground until he gives up. I'm sick of listening to his mouth full of marbles (I've been hit too many times) just that comes from his mouth. Screw a tune up fight, either jump into the fire, get your ass burned as you go back to boxing or shut up all us MMA fans that think you have no business bring your "check kicks" to mma. Toney WAS a great boxer but this is fighting now and I don't he belongs. But if any MMA fighter is dumb enough to stand with him for more that 30 seconds, he could knock them out. But it's MMA for a reason.

[Wilhelm]

Happily like quite a few others, I think Tony is going to flatten Randy. Because Randy will have never come across anyone who has punching skills in the same league as Tony.


id love to see this fight. toneys gonna knock randy c. out cold.

A couple of things.

1) Being a great boxer doesn't automatically make you a hard puncher. Toney hasn't had a one punch KO since he was at 168. He hasn't stopped a decent pro since Holyfield in 2003, and that was a huge accumulation of punches. These MMA guys do spar with pro boxers and I highly doubt that Toney will be the hardest puncher Couture has ever faced.

2) Punching in a boxing ring is NOT like punching in MMA. As anyone who has ever tried it knows, you must change your stance and your footwork and your balance when you allow kicks and takedowns. Toney will not be able to sit down on his punches if he's getting kicked and preparing to sprawl which will negate a lot of his punching experience since that experience is from a totally different environment.

The way I see this fight going is that either a) Couture takes him down straight away and beats the crap out of him b) Couture clinches and puts him against the cage and dirty boxes him for a while with some knees and elbows and then takes him down c) Couture decides to stand for a while and throws some kicks and punches and then takes Toney down d) Couture decides to show his boxing skills and balls and stands and punches with Toney. Only in scenario d does Toney have a prayer and even then IF HE HURTS COUTURE BUT DOESN'T STOP HIM COUTURE WILL BE ABLE TO CLINCH AND TAKE HIM DOWN TO SAVE HIMSELF. This is where Toney's lack of one punch power makes him much less likely to ever do anything in MMA than a guy like Mayorga. The fact that Toney's boxing style is so suited to the rules of boxing (sideways stance, leg forward) makes his experience in boxing either useless (because he'll have to change it up to be effective in mma) or a negative (if he falls back into his boxing stance and gets leg kicked/taken down over and over).

There are guys that can make a much more legit move from boxing to mma, but James Toney is not one of them and certainly isn't against someone like Randy Couture.

[wolunt]

A couple of things.

1) Being a great boxer doesn't automatically make you a hard puncher. Toney hasn't had a one punch KO since he was at 168. He hasn't stopped a decent pro since Holyfield in 2003, and that was a huge accumulation of punches. These MMA guys do spar with pro boxers and I highly doubt that Toney will be the hardest puncher Couture has ever faced.

2) Punching in a boxing ring is NOT like punching in MMA. As anyone who has ever tried it knows, you must change your stance and your footwork and your balance when you allow kicks and takedowns. Toney will not be able to sit down on his punches if he's getting kicked and preparing to sprawl which will negate a lot of his punching experience since that experience is from a totally different environment.

The way I see this fight going is that either a) Couture takes him down straight away and beats the crap out of him b) Couture clinches and puts him against the cage and dirty boxes him for a while with some knees and elbows and then takes him down c) Couture decides to stand for a while and throws some kicks and punches and then takes Toney down d) Couture decides to show his boxing skills and balls and stands and punches with Toney. Only in scenario d does Toney have a prayer and even then IF HE HURTS COUTURE BUT DOESN'T STOP HIM COUTURE WILL BE ABLE TO CLINCH AND TAKE HIM DOWN TO SAVE HIMSELF. This is where Toney's lack of one punch power makes him much less likely to ever do anything in MMA than a guy like Mayorga. The fact that Toney's boxing style is so suited to the rules of boxing (sideways stance, leg forward) makes his experience in boxing either useless (because he'll have to change it up to be effective in mma) or a negative (if he falls back into his boxing stance and gets leg kicked/taken down over and over).

There are guys that can make a much more legit move from boxing to mma, but James Toney is not one of them and certainly isn't against someone like Randy Couture.
:happy:happy Great post, somebody that still follows boxing a lot more than I do. The last time I really actually followed Toney was when he was assaulting his female manager with a gun. And I'm sure I was already out of the sport by then but how long ago was that?

[2ironmt]

It doesn't matter. Toney can KO Couture just because his punches are so accurate and land so cleanly. Most MMA fighters don't have the chin or striking defense of pro boxers.It does matter. First of all toney's punches aren't as clean and accurate anymore because he's older and not fit. Second see Wilhelm's post above as to why toney's effectiveness will be even further lessened because throwing punchs in a cage is different than the ring. If this were Toney of even the Jirov fight I'd say you have a good point and he would well have a chance against an older Couture even under MMA rules. But the fact is toney is now a 225 lb plus 40 year old slob without great power (at higher weights), the striking isn't the same, couture's chin aint all that bad, and toney will get tired with the consant fighting and action (as opposed to a few punches, walk around and clinch then repeat routine of many of his hw boxing recent matches)

[james4210]

A couple of things.

1) Being a great boxer doesn't automatically make you a hard puncher. Toney hasn't had a one punch KO since he was at 168. He hasn't stopped a decent pro since Holyfield in 2003, and that was a huge accumulation of punches. These MMA guys do spar with pro boxers and I highly doubt that Toney will be the hardest puncher Couture has ever faced.

2) Punching in a boxing ring is NOT like punching in MMA. As anyone who has ever tried it knows, you must change your stance and your footwork and your balance when you allow kicks and takedowns. Toney will not be able to sit down on his punches if he's getting kicked and preparing to sprawl which will negate a lot of his punching experience since that experience is from a totally different environment.

The way I see this fight going is that either a) Couture takes him down straight away and beats the crap out of him b) Couture clinches and puts him against the cage and dirty boxes him for a while with some knees and elbows and then takes him down c) Couture decides to stand for a while and throws some kicks and punches and then takes Toney down d) Couture decides to show his boxing skills and balls and stands and punches with Toney. Only in scenario d does Toney have a prayer and even then IF HE HURTS COUTURE BUT DOESN'T STOP HIM COUTURE WILL BE ABLE TO CLINCH AND TAKE HIM DOWN TO SAVE HIMSELF. This is where Toney's lack of one punch power makes him much less likely to ever do anything in MMA than a guy like Mayorga. The fact that Toney's boxing style is so suited to the rules of boxing (sideways stance, leg forward) makes his experience in boxing either useless (because he'll have to change it up to be effective in mma) or a negative (if he falls back into his boxing stance and gets leg kicked/taken down over and over).

There are guys that can make a much more legit move from boxing to mma, but James Toney is not one of them and certainly isn't against someone like Randy Couture.

That is a very Interesting post you write. I think you are right. I've only ever seen one James Tony fight probably about eight years ago. And it was one of the best boxing matches I've ever seen in my life and it was clearly Tony at his best. Now I've still got that in my head. it sounds like it's the difference between Tyson in his prime and the plodding slugger he became.

I take your point about punching being different, because boxers obviously don't have to worry about leg kicks or takedowns. the orthodox boxing stance is not that different but I seem to remember that Tony is very side on and crablike and unorthodox as you say, I remember this because he was fighting a real upright European in the fight I saw.

As Rumsfeld said, is not the unknowns but the unknown unknowns. Does anyone know if Tony has any wrestling or martial experience. We need more data. what if he has done a bit of wrestling and has a talent for it. or has done judo or something. who's to say he hasn't got MMA buddies and tried it out. People aren't cardboard cutouts. Until I have any information to the contrary I'm not going to rule out any possibility. although the evidence does seem to suggest so far that Tony is just some tired arrogant gasbag who is going to get steamrollered.

One thing that is an absolute fact,MMA gloves are far more dangerous than boxing glove. less force is needed to do major damage. This is basic physics. it's far more important to be able to land any punch rather than have full force behind it. if there's any sort of clinch I just see Tony being able to whip in an uppercut or a hook and be able to get through. providing he can stand on his feet for more than a few seconds.

[PNoyFightFanUSN]

If Toney clinches, Randy tosses him lack a fat sack of mashed potatoes and pounds him into unconsciousness.Greco-Roman> Toney's mouth getting him what he asked for.

[Popkins]

...if he authorizes the proposed James Toney vs Randy Couture match-up at UFC 118.


To me, that's like Chris Leben or Tito Ortiz right now moving into boxing and being matched with Bernard Hopkins or Evander Holyfield in their very first pro fight.

In other words, it just would not happen, because it's utterly ridiculous.


Randy Couture has so, so much experience and such a wide, strong skillset. To put a rank novice in terms of MMA in with such a guy is a suicide mission, he is going to completely and utterly dominate and humiliate Toney from the very first bell.

How the hell can a guy who beat Brandon Vera and went to points with Big Nog not long ago realistically be matched with someone who has never even had a single fight before?


The only answer can be that White wants to punish Toney for his mouth and make an example out of him to show the fans that boxers can't just walk into MMA and be successful.

Which I think is absolutely shameful because Toney is an overweight 40 year old with no experience, and should not be used in this way.

Repulsive.

:-(


Yes, they are.

James Toney has been at the top of boxing since 1991, almost two decades spanning around 80 fights. And he has never been stopped, and never been close to being stopped.

Now, this proud warrior who has taken so much time, will, effort and punishment to construct that record is going to be put in an unwinnable situation, against an unfair opponent, and unceremoniously dumped onto the mat, suffer the indignity of someone sitting on top of him, and then being crudely and brutally hammer-fisted into a bloody, pitiful mess.

Toney will be humiliated, Randy Couture will be slightly embarrassed at being made participate in such a pointless, easy and unfair contest, and the press will see this for what it is.

You can spin this any way you want, talk about making money and clever marketing blah blah bullshit, but if the UFC as an organization and MMA as a sport want to retain and improve credibility, then this fight is a MAJOR error.

As I said, if Tito Ortiz suddenly turned up at a boxing match and said to the media "I'll murder Quitali Bitchko, tell Jose Suliman I'll take his WBC belt by KO anytime", do you think Suliman would sanction that fight??! Obviously not. He knows that boxing is a sport with a proud history and standards, and this would never be devalued and disregarded purely for the purposes of a freakshow designed to make a quick buck.

One of the stigmas attached to MMA is that of the freakshow, of an audience which wants 7ft monsters pitched against sumo wrestlers, of WWE style corny 'bad blood' matches where fights are organized due to the public dislike of the fighters. If MMA is ever to merit inclusion in the Olympics as has been spoken of, and if it is ever to rival boxing as a legitimate, serious sport, then it has to do everything possible to shake off these detrimental dated connotations.

And allowing a complete MMA novice to get pulverized by an enormously experienced ex-champ and current top 10 fighter purely because he is a big name is just pathetic. Let's wait and observe the fight and the fall-out, see who is right. :good

I was right. So fuck all of you dumb morons who called me a dick on this and other threads for saying this.

An MMA fighter would never be able to stroll into a high-profile fight with a world-class professional boxer, because boxing authorities would not sanction it, irrespective of whether the MMA fighter "called out" the boxer or the sport, or any other playground meaningless garbage like that.

It demeans and degrades the sport of MMA when the authorities allow a novice to fight a highly decorated world-class professional, this would not happen in serious sports.

I hope everyone has learned a lesson tonight.

[sitiyzal]

Popkins, you thought Toney would get brutalized etc :lol:

This forum should've been locked for week or so after the fight, so everyone could calm down :nod

[Popkins]

Popkins, you thought Toney would get brutalized etc :lol:

Erm, yes I did, and that's exactly what happened.

Couture finished by submission rather than by GnP, but he did exactly what I said he would, he took Toney down immediately, rained punches down on him from the top position, then finished without taking ANY damage whatsoever himself.

What part of this is giving you trouble? :huh

[yaca you]

I was right. So fuck all of you dumb morons who called me a dick on this and other threads for saying this.

An MMA fighter would never be able to stroll into a high-profile fight with a world-class professional boxer, because boxing authorities would not sanction it, irrespective of whether the MMA fighter "called out" the boxer or the sport, or any other playground meaningless garbage like that.

It demeans and degrades the sport of MMA when the authorities allow a novice to fight a highly decorated world-class professional, this would not happen in serious sports.

I hope everyone has learned a lesson tonight.

how can MMA be disgraced further than this?


[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[arm chicken]

it should have been Spider Silva vs Lights out Toney

[Big T]

how can MMA be disgraced further than this?


[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
I couldn't watch that anymore..my God..first thing I thought of, was my dog in the back yard running after me..but for the fighter...if he clocks the guy with no arms..then he is a bully..but if he get beat..then YIKES!:bbb

[achillesthegreat]

Undisputed productions LLC should be ashamed of themselves for putting that fight on.

[Ivo]

how can MMA be disgraced further than this?


[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I cannot believe this is real! :shock:

[SouthpawSlayer]

i seen this guy wrestling before on you tube, fucking great wrestler for someone with no limbs as for the mma that was fucking sick to watch but hey im sure thats what that kyle guy wants to do ...........i say let him compete

[yaca you]

Undisputed productions LLC should be ashamed of themselves for putting that fight on.

and probably all of MMA for not condemning it.


-Sports Illustrated ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) they basically make it a feel good piece, an unfortunate man overcoming the odds.

-Sherdog ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) more feel good bullshit.

-Espn ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) same uplifting story of a unlucky man pursuing a dream.

To be fair kyle maynard had to go to alabama to fight because they dont have a fight commission there - no state athletic commission would sanction it.

I remember it well It was only 1 year ago (april 2009) and that feel good story was the mood of the day no concern that maynard couldn't defend himself or had no chance of victory while risking his healthan perhaps.

The mma community did not come out against this, not in significant numbers. want to know why because mma rating are good for the sport.

this bullshit match between toney and couture gets good ratings. thats what matters and you know it. even though pitting their "captian America" against tony basically shows their fear of boxers coming into MMA and winning. so the ufc marketing machine created an illusion of a respectable fight that was stacked in the favor of the MMA legend(randy couture).

It is clear to see.

I did want to see toney be victorious simply to witness the epic villainy of the infuriating smack-talking negro:twisted: be created. next hope..... floyd mayweather jr:happy:happy:happy












Just kiddin, chicken floyd to scared!! but damn imagine the hype on that one.

[achillesthegreat]

and probably all of MMA for not condemning it.


-Sports Illustrated ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) they basically make it a feel good piece, an unfortunate man overcoming the odds.

-Sherdog ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) more feel good bullshit.

-Espn ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) same uplifting story of a unlucky man pursuing a dream.

To be fair kyle maynard had to go to alabama to fight because they dont have a fight commission there - no state athletic commission would sanction it.

I remember it well It was only 1 year ago (april 2009) and that feel good story was the mood of the day no concern that maynard couldn't defend himself or had no chance of victory while risking his healthan perhaps.

The mma community did not come out against this, not in significant numbers. want to know why because mma rating are good for the sport.

this bullshit match between toney and couture gets good ratings. thats what matters and you know it. even though pitting their "captian America" against tony basically shows their fear of boxers coming into MMA and winning. so the ufc marketing machine created an illusion of a respectable fight that was stacked in the favor of the MMA legend(randy couture).

It is clear to see.

I did want to see toney be victorious simply to witness the epic villainy of the infuriating smack-talking negro:twisted: be created. next hope..... floyd mayweather jr:happy:happy:happy












Just kiddin, chicken floyd to scared!! but damn imagine the hype on that one.

Floyd ain't fighting the top guy in his sport let alone MMA. Hell, he went to WWE and didn't fight the best :-)

[Popkins]

how can MMA be disgraced further than this?


[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

That is fucking sick...


...having Junie Browning as a headliner.