Ana;yzing leonard-hearns 1

[redrooster]

my main problem with this performance was why did ray go flat for so long after having his man hurt in the middle rounds.

With a little mobility and a consistent jab, tommy reduced ray from sweet to ordinary and I assume that most others with same plan could carry it out like Terry Norris. he lost too many of the rounds-Not the mark of an all time great.

Sugar hardly resembled Marciano trying to make his way inside so as a strategist i gave him low marks. the most impressive part of his game was his barrages in rds 6,7, 13.

[Vantage_West]

he was scared but not in a cowardly way he just hadnt fought a man like that before...
he was a jabber and was almost always taller than the other man...he jabbed his way in and relased his combo's and would either finish them off or just go the distance.
with the hearns fight hearns just jabbed and barged him away and was aggresive towards him leonard with his smaller frame andreach could only pot shot.

this was a learning curb leonard turned from being a boxer to a fighter in this fight. he changed his whole stratagy and went right hand crazy when he saw an opening.

i feel hearns was ok to continue he said that he was fine if he was warned that the fight might of stopped then hearns would maybe of won the fight by dancing away

[Titan1]

Ray probably tired himself out a little, overexerted himself.By right, he should've had Tommy out in the sixth or seventh, but it didn't happen that way.

[Popkins]

I agree that this is not a strong all-round performance from Leonard. His languid, lethargic showing in some rounds is positively bizarre.

[My2Sense]

With a little mobility and a consistent jab, tommy reduced ray from sweet to ordinary and I assume that most others with same plan could carry it out like Terry Norris.

Yeah, it's not like Hearns was a unique ATG with freakish physical advantages and tremendous power or anything...


he lost too many of the rounds-Not the mark of an all time great.


Since when??

[Boxed Ears]

I don't know, maybe I'm quirky but I give him high marks for beating a monstrous freak of nature ATG into submission somewhere towards the end there.

[JohnThomas1]

Yeah, it's not like Hearns was a unique ATG with freakish physical advantages and tremendous power or anything...


Exactly, some just don't have any clue when it comes to the tactical nuances and ebbs and flows of this one.

[JohnThomas1]

I don't know, maybe I'm quirky but I give him high marks for beating a monstrous freak of nature ATG into submission somewhere towards the end there.

Maybe you know what you're looking at too :good

[MrMarvel]

Hearn's superior skill shut down Leonard's offense. He got lucky in the sixth and still couldn't close the show. Had Hearns not given out Leonard would have suffered his second humiliating defeat.

[Gesta]

Great win by Leonard.

Showed guts in a the ring with another ATG, did not look the best, was losing, but came through with the KO and that is what counts.

[Little Pea]

I watched this fight for the first time yesterday. Amazed at both guys i was.

Hearns started like a very confident monster but when Leonard catch him (mid fight?), the predator became the prey. Hearn lost his smile and began to box (in a very effective way).

It looked clear (to me) that Hearns reach was preventing Sugar to box in his usual way. So he continued to do what he thought was the only thing to do: pressure Hearns and try to catch him again.

ANd he did.

Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, i'm a "classic noob"

[TBomb 25]

Leonard showed great guts and a will to win he took a horrible beating 1 of the worst in boxing history, from 1 of the most monstrous men in boxing history,and i am the biggest Hearns fan in the world,thats still the most impressive win in boxing history,the mans eye was nearly hanging out of its socket,he had major disadvatges in that fight all the advantges that he normally has he didnt skill, speed,reach,power,leverage,timing,height, not to mention getting over the fear of fighting a man like that,what the hell more can anyone want?

[Woller]

Last time I watched, the fight did not look like that on my video. (Horrible beating, eye nearly hanging out of its socket) Get lost.

I am a huge Hearns fan, and we don´t need fans writing that crap.

Woller

[redrooster]

I watched this fight for the first time yesterday. Amazed at both guys i was.

Hearns started like a very confident monster but when Leonard catch him (mid fight?), the predator became the prey. Hearn lost his smile and began to box (in a very effective way).

It looked clear (to me) that Hearns reach was preventing Sugar to box in his usual way. So he continued to do what he thought was the only thing to do: pressure Hearns and try to catch him again.

ANd he did.

Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, i'm a "classic noob"

leonard was totally outboxed until one of his haymakers caught a slowing Hearns late. He wasnt able to catch norris tho. Too many tools, too much speed. Oh bittersweet career

[TBomb 25]

Last time I watched, the fight did not look like that on my video. (Horrible beating, eye nearly hanging out of its socket) Get lost.

I am a huge Hearns fan, and we don´t need fans writing that crap.

WollerThats the way i saw it sure im making it a tall tale a bit,but it was a horrible beating,and i say what i want faggot.

[TBomb 25]

leonard was totally outboxed until one of his haymakers caught a slowing Hearns late. He wasnt able to catch norris tho. Too many tools, too much speed. Oh bittersweet careerThats was knowwhere near the same Leonard,and that was a 12 round fight not a 15 rounder,and if your comparing Norris to Hearns your smoking something good.:-(

[The Wanderer]

I watched this fight for the first time yesterday. Amazed at both guys i was.

Hearns started like a very confident monster but when Leonard catch him (mid fight?), the predator became the prey. Hearn lost his smile and began to box (in a very effective way).

It looked clear (to me) that Hearns reach was preventing Sugar to box in his usual way. So he continued to do what he thought was the only thing to do: pressure Hearns and try to catch him again.

ANd he did.

Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, i'm a "classic noob"

No, I don't feel you're wrong, and I think you're certainly a lot more on the ball than the thread starter. (Of course Red Rooster is both a Leonard hater and huge Norris fan, so objectivity from him on the matter is unlikely at best).

In short, Hearns should have been a stylistic and physical kryptonite for Leonard. His speed was comparable if not equal to Leonard's, he was bigger and taller than Leonard, (with the added extra reach, which when combined with the speed meant that Leonard couldn't try to control the distance or box and move the way he had in Duran II) he had far more power than Leonard, (even though Leonard could crack at welterweight) he was quite well schooled with good technique and had the skill to box as well as slug.

Really, the only advantages Leonard had going into this fight were his chin and, to a lesser degree, his stamina. He couldn't rely on his usual tactics or tricks, because the physical gifts and style of Hearns made them all useless. But Leonard soldiered on and pulled out the win by force of will and by pursuing and pressuring Tommy.

Make no mistake, I am emphatically not a fan of Ray Leonard. But he pulled out a fight that, on paper, he really should have lost, he did it despite the fact that (if I'm remembering right) he got his retina detached in this fight, and did it by pressuring and going after a fighter who was a much bigger puncher than he was. Whatever you think of Leonard, you have to be a truly blind hater to not give him credit for beating Hearns.

[TommyV]

Rooster, Hearns v Norris at '54, who you got?

[KnockOutArtist]

I think in the HBO Boxing Documentary on this fight, Leonard said after he caught Hearns and had him in trouble, he gassed. So once Tommy started moving and boxing so effectively, Leonard had difficulty keeping up and continuing his offense.

Hearns coming in weight drained at 145 makes me wonder how the fight would have went at 154. I don't see Hearns losing steam the same way. Leonard was great in this fight, no doubt about it though. It certainly ranks higher than No Mas and his fight with Hagler for me, personally.

[natonic]

Leonard was in against a head to head monster in Tommy Hearns (and an ATG himself). And seriously rooster, Tommy Hearns sparks Norris out with one of those wicked jabs within 3 rounds ;-)

[SuzieQ49]

leonard was totally outboxed until one of his haymakers caught a slowing Hearns late. He wasnt able to catch norris tho. Too many tools, too much speed. Oh bittersweet career

:lol:

How washed up was Leonard when he fought Norris?

[mr. magoo]

I agree with the righteous Red Rooster..

Leonard sucks.......

Norris rules....

Thread closed.......


Good night and sleep tight everybody...

[redrooster]

:lol:

How washed up was Leonard when he fought Norris?

How washed up could he be? He danced circles around Duran and unloosed 6-8 punch combinations, winning every round and was barely touched the who night. To be washed up you got to be in action and be taking your beating like Saad Muhammad-Lopez of hagler-Mugabi but that was never the scase with leonard. He just wasnt good enough for my man TN!

Norris was a little too much for him tho becuz TN is a multifacted fighter whom Leonard could not cope with on the inside or from the outside. After Terry uncorked that uppercut in round 3, he ruined Leonard and he never recovered. From then on it was no longer a fight and that's why people thought he was washed up but that's just a rumour by his dissapointed fans who dont know how else to explain it. Ray shoulda won

[redrooster]

Thats was knowwhere near the same Leonard,and that was a 12 round fight not a 15 rounder,and if your comparing Norris to Hearns your smoking something good.:-(

Leonard would not want a 15 rounder against Mr. Norris otherwise we might have a fatality in the ring. people mistakenly say that Ray was thru but if you look at his last fight, he was absolutely magnificent like Tim Ryan told him after the fight. See? There was NOTHING wrong with Ray

in other words, Ray wasnt the problem, Norris was the problem. Ray had never faced a multi faceted fighter like Norris before with speed and with power combined with a tight defense. there was just no way Ray could reach him when Terry wanted to box.

Ray try to crowd him in the second but as you can see that didnt work either becuz Terry is too sharp a hitter, especially with the left hook. Terry's left hook has ruined a lot of fighters including Mugabi and Gatti. it is so sharp and so quick you cannot avoid it and Ray has never been hit with these kind of shock punches in his life. What could Ray do but fall before it like newly mown grass before the blade?

The next round Terry sealed the deal by unleashing a weapon Leonard had never seen before and there was no way he could defend against it. it was TN's left uppercut. I studied it. TN set Ray up for it with body work - that got TN on the inside. Then Terry unload full force with it-KABANG!! And Ray's head snap straight up! He look like the extra terrestial when he get hit with it and from then on he had Ray on the defensive. Ray backpeddle the whole night from then on and his plan to win the fight went down the toilet.

Too much speed. too much pressure. Too much talent. too much versatility. And whenever Ray try getting to TN with a late round desperation attack like he did with Hearns, there was nothing he can do becuz TN just tie him up or move out of range or slip and counter like the old pros. That is why Ray was outclassed all night.

Ray is great, he is in my top 25 all time but he is just a mortal while Terry is a God

[redrooster]

Rooster, Hearns v Norris at '54, who you got?

This is a contest between TN's lethal left hook vs Tommy's right cross. as you know Tommy had improved light years over the 147 version and hitting with far greater authority, with the kind of results that would soon concern Marvin Hagler. I'd have to say it really depends on who lands first but I get the feeling Tommy could shake off blows that would have rattled him later.

[Ezzard]

Somewhere between rounds 11-15 Hearns and Leonard are equal... Hearns would win more than he lost over 10. Leonard would win more than he lost over 15.

[TBomb 25]

Hearns would have starched Leonard at 154 and Norris,judging what Norris done with Leonard at 154 is a bad guage to judge him on how he would do against Hearns,Leonard was a great politician he new he had small window to catch Hearns at the right time,even a weight drained Hearns punished him badlly but he gets full credit for the win from me it was the best comback i've seen in boxing.

[enquirer]

Even at 154 i think leonard hearns plays out very similarily,with the caveat that hearns 'may' pull out a points win. See leonard hearns 2 for details...

[les]

sr leonard lost rounds,but remember he was fighting an ATG welterweight.what truly great fighters do is somehow find a way to win,thats what sugar did under real pressure

[les]

the inactivity court up with him by the time TNT got him,in his prime ray ko,s TNT who never had a good chin

[MAG1965]

my main problem with this performance was why did ray go flat for so long after having his man hurt in the middle rounds.

With a little mobility and a consistent jab, tommy reduced ray from sweet to ordinary and I assume that most others with same plan could carry it out like Terry Norris. he lost too many of the rounds-Not the mark of an all time great.

Sugar hardly resembled Marciano trying to make his way inside so as a strategist i gave him low marks. the most impressive part of his game was his barrages in rds 6,7, 13.Tommy was a great fighter who could box and Ray couldn't reach him. As Ray said later when Hearns would get close then he could counter Hearns, but for him to walk in and get hit by the right hand it was not something he wanted. He had to wait for Tommy to get close and then counterpunch. Had Tommy boxed all night and not been close, Hearns would have won an easy decision. Tommy was great, but he could not just win decisions and be boring. He had to try and stop guys. It was in his nature to try to knock a guy out if he could. Had he been a guy like Roy Jones he would have won all his fights by boxing. He couldn't do it because of the prospect of being a boring fighter and the crowd not having been entertained. Tommy Hearns really believed in entertaining the crowds. If he was hitting a guy easily he would try and stop him, and he would get countered in the process. I think he figured it was worth it, rather than be boring.

[enquirer]

Interesting analysis on hearns MAG.
Dont you think with a right hand like hearns' it was well worth him trying to bomb guys out? Not just for entertainment value but to win the fight early. I mean many of his great wins come by way of awesome bombage,and over great opposition as well..
I could see your point against leonard,but what could he have done with an out of character raging performance that was 85 hagler?

[Little Pea]

my main problem with this performance was why did ray go flat for so long after having his man hurt in the middle rounds.


I don't recall Leonard going "flat".
I recall Hearns starting to be way more careful and to box in a very effective way.

I'ts like saying DLH stopped jabbing on purpose against Mayweather...
I don't get that.

[redrooster]

I don't recall Leonard going "flat".
I recall Hearns starting to be way more careful and to box in a very effective way.

I'ts like saying DLH stopped jabbing on purpose against Mayweather...
I don't get that.

Flatfooted. Ray went flatfooted against Tommy but he didnt have the experience like Hagler did to cope with slick movers which is why he reduced to throwing haymakers one at a time. Any kind of movement gives Ray fits

If Ray couldnt handle a simple stick and move tactic like that, he'd have a lot more problems with Norris. Movement from slicksters like Norris & Nunn is the perfect style to reduce Sugar from sweet to ordinary