View Full Version : Pacquiao watched Juan Diaz this weekend, decides he wants Valero
errsta
10-15-2007, 05:00 PM
Can't blame him
:happy :happy :happy :happy :happy
Lampley
10-15-2007, 06:32 PM
I hope Manny avoids 135. He'd get stopped by Juan.
If he wants Valero, thats fine by me. I respect him for taking a dangerous opponent in Valero.
And like the OP said, Im not suprised he watched Diaz and turned the other way.
Sheikh
10-15-2007, 06:37 PM
valero has a much better chance then diaz. u guys just say this cuz u hate pac
valero has a much better chance then diaz. u guys just say this cuz u hate pac
Oh really?
Diaz is a proven champ, with the most endurance in boxing, in his prime, and undefeated.
On top of that, he is in the weight class above Pac, and perhaps we understand the significance of that.
Before you make stupid posts, think please. :good
Well yea Diaz may be a bit more dangerous but EL inca is very dangerous because of his punching power. He has that eraser which Diaz doesn't have...
Valero is a very risky opponent for pacman.
Yes, he is. He has wicked power but has not faced competition like Pac before. I think the fight will be a war, with Pac coming out on top. I think it will be somewhat like Kelley vs Hamed.
planetzion
10-15-2007, 06:45 PM
Well yea Diaz may be a bit more dangerous but EL inca is very dangerous because of his punching power. He has that eraser which Diaz doesn't have...
Valero is a very risky opponent for pacman.
I agree in that Valero is a very real threat to anyone certainly not a soft option...i think the uncertain realm here is 135 not so much Diaz himself
Daddy
10-15-2007, 06:48 PM
Heh, they are both dangerous period. One punches hard and the other too often. I guarentee that Pac has a better chance against Valero than he does against Juan. Juan would 2nd Base him to death as Bob Papa would say and would stop him in 7 or 8 rounds. Valero has a punchers chance sure...but Pac does have a good chin. Getting stopped by accumulation differs from 1 or 2 clean shots to the chin. One of them completely takes ALL of your will away (accumulation) and the other actually makes you want to fight on and continue (2 to the chin and KDed).
Chico(may he RIP) IS NO Manny...
He is not talking about the quality of the fighter, he is talking about the weight discrepency.
Tito looked great until he ran into Bernard at 160lbs. You can climb and climb in the weight classes and be succesfull, but one day you climb to high and its disastrous.
Pac has gone through many weight classes, 135 against Diaz is too high.
dangerousity
10-15-2007, 06:56 PM
Watching both Valero & Diaz, I would b much more nervous in a fight with Valero.
I believe the 2 ways to beat Pac would be to either outbox him or to KO him. Outboxing him will be a big problem cos aswell as the skill, you would need a great chin to take Pacs punches for 12 rounds and the legs to last that long. KO'ing him maybe an easier task, if valero lands a bomb, I can see Pac going down..
This is sort of like a Barkley vs Hearns fight. Both men have the power to KO each other even though the other on paper should be much better. Not saying Pac's chin is shaky but it aint granite...
Diaz cant KO Pac or outbox him. He will take on Pac in a war of attrition...and I dont think anybody can beat Pac at that game 135lb and under. Pac has more power and speed. To put Pac's power into perspective, he KO Erik Morales in 3 rounds, a LW David Diaz couldnt do it in 12 so yeh, I definetly believe Pac has the power to carry to 135lb.
He would stop Juan Diaz.
He would stop Juan Diaz.
No.
There is a third way to beat Pac which you did not mention.
He can not fight moving backward. Diaz would use his endurance, preasure, size advantage, and perpetual punching to move Pac backward. I remember Pac moving backwards against Morales (first fight) and it was clear he did not understand how to fight in that direction. In reality he has never had to. This reality will change against fighters in higher weight classes, especially against Diaz.
jopez707
10-15-2007, 07:08 PM
Watching both Valero & Diaz, I would b much more nervous in a fight with Valero.
I believe the 2 ways to beat Pac would be to either outbox him or to KO him. Outboxing him will be a big problem cos aswell as the skill, you would need a great chin to take Pacs punches for 12 rounds and the legs to last that long. KO'ing him maybe an easier task, if valero lands a bomb, I can see Pac going down..
This is sort of like a Barkley vs Hearns fight. Both men have the power to KO each other even though the other on paper should be much better. Not saying Pac's chin is shaky but it aint granite...
Diaz cant KO Pac or outbox him. He will take on Pac in a war of attrition...and I dont think anybody can beat Pac at that game 135lb and under. Pac has more power and speed. To put Pac's power into perspective, he KO Erik Morales in 3 rounds, a LW David Diaz couldnt do it in 12 so yeh, I definetly believe Pac has the power to carry to 135lb.
He would stop Juan Diaz.
I think Diaz's stamina is actually the best in the game, with Pacquiao being a very close second. Diaz is not a very powerful puncher, but he "throws punches in bunches" and never stops, his chin is also better than Pacquiao's. Against anyone 130 and under, I believe Pac has to be considered the favorite (though the winner of Guzman-Soto might not be that big of an underdog). At 135 it's a different game, I don't believe Pac punches harder than JUlio Diaz or Acelino Freitas, 2 guys that were unable to really hurt Juan Diaz. If Pac can't hurt Diaz, he would be in alot of trouble in this fight.
I think Diaz's stamina is actually the best in the game, with Pacquiao being a very close second. Diaz is not a very powerful puncher, but he "throws punches in bunches" and never stops, his chin is also better than Pacquiao's. Against anyone 130 and under, I believe Pac has to be considered the favorite (though the winner of Guzman-Soto might not be that big of an underdog). At 135 it's a different game, I don't believe Pac punches harder than JUlio Diaz or Acelino Freitas, 2 guys that were unable to really hurt Juan Diaz. If Pac can't hurt Diaz, he would be in alot of trouble in this fight.
Freitas hits like a mule.
No way Pac hits harder than Freitas (especially in his prime).
The advantage Pac has over Freitas are his straighter punches.
KingBenny
10-15-2007, 07:13 PM
Watching both Valero & Diaz, I would b much more nervous in a fight with Valero.
I believe the 2 ways to beat Pac would be to either outbox him or to KO him. Outboxing him will be a big problem cos aswell as the skill, you would need a great chin to take Pacs punches for 12 rounds and the legs to last that long. KO'ing him maybe an easier task, if valero lands a bomb, I can see Pac going down..
This is sort of like a Barkley vs Hearns fight. Both men have the power to KO each other even though the other on paper should be much better. Not saying Pac's chin is shaky but it aint granite...
Diaz cant KO Pac or outbox him. He will take on Pac in a war of attrition...and I dont think anybody can beat Pac at that game 135lb and under. Pac has more power and speed. To put Pac's power into perspective, he KO Erik Morales in 3 rounds, a LW David Diaz couldnt do it in 12 so yeh, I definetly believe Pac has the power to carry to 135lb.
He would stop Juan Diaz.
Im a pac fan n all but you are smoking some good shit!!!:rasta :rasta :rasta
dangerousity
10-15-2007, 07:14 PM
No.
There is a third way to beat Pac which you did not mention.
He can not fight moving backward. Diaz would use his endurance, preasure, size advantage, and perpetual punching to move Pac backward. I remember Pac moving backwards against Morales (first fight) and it was clear he did not understand how to fight in that direction. In reality he has never had to. This reality will change against fighters in higher weight classes, especially against Diaz.
If you watch his fights after that you will see his footwork has improved alot and his counter right hook is pretty deadly stunning most of his opponents who rush him. On top of that, everytime Pac was rushed back...he ALWAYS came back and with a vengeance. Juan Diaz is exactly the kind of fighter who will bring out the best in Pac and you just dont want that.
I can understand where youre coming from with your analysis but Im just seeing from a different angle and im as sure of my own analysis in my head of how the fight will go as you are of yours.
If you watch his fights after that you will see his footwork has improved alot and his counter right hook is pretty deadly stunning most of his opponents who rush him. On top of that, everytime Pac was rushed back...he ALWAYS came back and with a vengeance. Juan Diaz is exactly the kind of fighter who will bring out the best in Pac and you just dont want that.
I can understand where youre coming from with your analysis but Im just seeing from a different angle and im as sure of my own analysis in my head of how the fight will go as you are of yours.
Good counter points. :good
dangerousity
10-15-2007, 07:16 PM
Freitas hits like a mule.
No way Pac hits harder than Freitas (especially in his prime).
The advantage Pac has over Freitas are his straighter punches.
Punch for punch maybe id say their the same. Pac with a clean straight lunging left is as hard a shot p4p as any punch out there. The difference is, every punch Pac throws is a power punch whereas Babybull's re arm punches, Pac also throws alot more than Freitas and has alot more stamina and faster.
Punch for punch maybe id say their the same. Pac with a clean straight lunging left is as hard a shot p4p as any punch out there. The difference is, every punch Pac throws is a power punch whereas Babybull's re arm punches, Pac also throws alot more than Freitas and has alot more stamina and faster.
On the other hand, Pac is a rythmic fighter, and this rythyn can be broken with the volume punching of Diaz. Diaz can use this break in rythym to accumulate combinations on Pac and wear him down.
hellblazer
10-15-2007, 07:25 PM
Watching both Valero & Diaz, I would b much more nervous in a fight with Valero.
I believe the 2 ways to beat Pac would be to either outbox him or to KO him. Outboxing him will be a big problem cos aswell as the skill, you would need a great chin to take Pacs punches for 12 rounds and the legs to last that long. KO'ing him maybe an easier task, if valero lands a bomb, I can see Pac going down..
This is sort of like a Barkley vs Hearns fight. Both men have the power to KO each other even though the other on paper should be much better. Not saying Pac's chin is shaky but it aint granite...
Diaz cant KO Pac or outbox him. He will take on Pac in a war of attrition...and I dont think anybody can beat Pac at that game 135lb and under. Pac has more power and speed. To put Pac's power into perspective, he KO Erik Morales in 3 rounds, a LW David Diaz couldnt do it in 12 so yeh, I definetly believe Pac has the power to carry to 135lb.
He would stop Juan Diaz.
very well said mate :good
dangerousity
10-15-2007, 07:26 PM
On the other hand, Pac is a rythmic fighter, and this rythyn can be broken with the volume punching of Diaz. Diaz can use this break in rythym to accumulate combinations on Pac and wear him down.
Pac is a rythmic fighter when hes boxing. He didnt look very rythmic to me when he lost it against Solis and KD him in the same round. I think thats exactly the kind of Pac that will show up for Diaz once he get hurt, a guy out to hurt his opponent. It will be a hell of a war and though Diaz has the size and chin advantage, Pac has the speed, reach and power advantage. When the bull gets hit with 5 hellacious shots from pacman it will make him think twice and knock away some confidence. He hasnt faced anyone yet so far that thinks like him in the ring with the tools to carry it out. Julio tried it but he didnt have that power or speed to pull it off.
hellblazer
10-15-2007, 07:35 PM
No.
There is a third way to beat Pac which you did not mention.
He can not fight moving backward. Diaz would use his endurance, preasure, size advantage, and perpetual punching to move Pac backward. I remember Pac moving backwards against Morales (first fight) and it was clear he did not understand how to fight in that direction. In reality he has never had to. This reality will change against fighters in higher weight classes, especially against Diaz.
Team Pacquiao already solved this problem, didn't you watched Pac-Morales 2? What happened to Erik when they meet in their rematch? Pac is using the ring well and doesn't let Morales bully him in the corner, that's why Roach improved Pac's right hand, so that he wouldn't relying too much on his left hand.
Team Pacquiao already solved this problem, didn't you watched Pac-Morales 2? What happened to Erik when they meet in their rematch? Pac is using the ring well and doesn't let Morales bully him in the corner, that's why Roach improved Pac's right hand, so that he wouldn't relying too much on his left hand.
Please dont compare that Morales to this Diaz.
psychopath
10-15-2007, 07:40 PM
Can't blame him
:happy :happy :happy :happy :happy
Yeah . . . there's so much unsettled business at 130 . . . why go up and fight the bigger boys for the same amount of money?
Got to clearly establish his name at 130 first. :yep
psychopath
10-15-2007, 07:43 PM
Please dont compare that Morales to this Diaz.
:yep :good
I'm a Pacfan bruh . . . but it's not hard for me to see and understand that Diaz can outwork, outpower and force Pac to fight backwards.
:yep :good
I'm a Pacfan bruh . . . but it's not hard for me to see and understand that Diaz can outwork, outpower and force Pac to fight backwards.
Yep.
You cant compare the preasure of a 130lb, past it Morales to the 135lb, in his prime, endurance filled Diaz.
The right hook of Manny has improved, I dont argue that. But we are talking about different circumstances here.
hellblazer
10-15-2007, 07:49 PM
Please dont compare that Morales to this Diaz.
He can not fight moving backward. Diaz would use his endurance, preasure, size advantage, and perpetual punching to move Pac backward. I remember Pac moving backwards against Morales (first fight) and it was clear he did not understand how to fight in that direction.
I'm not comparing Morales to Juan Diaz, what i'm saying Pac has already solved that glitch on his defense he already know now how to fight moving backward, Pac improved a lot since his loss to Morales. He can box now, he can counter punch, of course he can brawl, a lot has been added to his arsenal. If Pac vs Diaz pushes through it will be a war, either fighter can
win it, my take is 50/50, I will not say Pav by K.O or Diaz by K.O, it will
depends on who can execute their game plan properly.
C Money
10-15-2007, 07:53 PM
Both PAC and Juan shuld finish out 30, and 35 respectively. Juan's a little closer, with only David Diaz and Joel Casamayor left, as opposed to Pac having Valero, JMM, and the Guzman vs Soto Winner. Ideally? Pac fights Valero, Marquez could fight the winner of Guzman vs Soto, and then winners fight each other. That scenario, allows enough time for the two fights to be made at 35 and deliver a true SUPERFIGHT.
If both guy's make absolute statements in their respective dvisions? It makes the fight much bigger in respect, money, and legacy for whoever wins out:good
I've been a fan of the Baby Bull while he's been coming up, this kids style, heart, conditioning, and intelligence is impressive. But this matchup??:think If there's a recipe for WAR? One part, Pacquiao, one part Juan D, and a ring might be it:yep Both guy's move forward and BANG, and love every minute of it:good
thanosone
10-15-2007, 07:59 PM
Paq outweighed Morales by 6 lbs in their 3rd fight. Him and baby bull will come at the same weight come fight night. Paq needs to fight somebody that is fresh not old veterans. I cant wait until he loses just so the pinoys can go back to singing karaoke or whatever the fuck they do. This fools know nothing about boxing except for Manny beating old Mex boxers.
dangerousity
10-15-2007, 08:01 PM
Paq outweighed Morales by 6 lbs in their 3rd fight. Him and baby bull will come at the same weight come fight night. Paq needs to fight somebody that is fresh not old veterans. I cant wait until he loses just so the pinoys can go back to singing karaoke or whatever the fuck they do. This fools know nothing about boxing except for Manny beating old Mex boxers.
What does Manny fighting Diaz have anything to do with Pinoys singing Karaoke? :huh
DobyZhee
10-15-2007, 08:08 PM
it was a play on stereotypes. Really, he's just pissed off that Pac sent these mexican guys into retirement. He's probably a disgruntled person who is waiting for Pac to lose BECAUSE of his over the top fans.
I thought he did fight someone fresh like a guy named Solis. Can you really blame Pac for bigger paychecks than fighting up and comers and possibly getting less money?
PacDbest
10-15-2007, 08:38 PM
I Just watched DIaz-Diaz then follow up with Pac-EM 3 & 2. Pac definitely was the Stronger & Faster fighter. Diaz has never fought an opponent as quick as Pac. Diaz will have a Problem catching Pac coz Pac's foot speed is incredibly faster than any in boxing today. Pac-Diaz will resemble Pac-EM 2 action wise. The difference will be that Diaz is a Sturdier fighter & will last longer but will take a lot of solid shots from Pac while Diaz will have Problem finding Pac with his short Arms.
Team Pac already said that they are looking at valero as their next opponent before the diaz fight... the hype between PAC and Diaz only started when Juan mentioned pac's name after the fight.
PacDbest
10-15-2007, 08:49 PM
Team Pac already said that they are looking at valero as their next opponent before the diaz fight... the hype between PAC and Diaz only started when Juan mentioned pac's name after the fight.
And Pac already said yes to this fight as long as the Price is Right.
I Just watched DIaz-Diaz then follow up with Pac-EM 3 & 2. Pac definitely was the Stronger & Faster fighter. Diaz has never fought an opponent as quick as Pac. Diaz will have a Problem catching Pac coz Pac's foot speed is incredibly faster than any in boxing today. Pac-Diaz will resemble Pac-EM 2 action wise. The difference will be that Diaz is a Sturdier fighter & will last longer but will take a lot of solid shots from Pac while Diaz will have Problem finding Pac with his short Arms.
:lol:
I'm amazed how these people easily forgot JMM... the last time i heard they were saying he will beat pac, but now it seems that they are riding on Diaz's nuts coz the truth is they weren't that confident that JMM would beat pac in the first place. :yep
And Pac already said yes to this fight as long as the Price is Right.
And you're not the only one who believes that pac has the style to give Diaz hell... this might be the toughest fight for both of them and no way pac will be destroyed easily like some of these fools are saying.
thanosone
10-15-2007, 08:53 PM
it was a play on stereotypes. Really, he's just pissed off that Pac sent these mexican guys into retirement. He's probably a disgruntled person who is waiting for Pac to lose BECAUSE of his over the top fans.
I thought he did fight someone fresh like a guy named Solis. Can you really blame Pac for bigger paychecks than fighting up and comers and possibly getting less money?
I hate the fans not Paq. He is a great fighter but he needs to fight fresh fighters not old veterans. No he did not retire them they were old already. Solis is garbage.
tays001
10-15-2007, 08:58 PM
I hope Manny avoids 135. He'd get stopped by Juan.
i think pac beats Jaun juan aint that good he fought a no mas frietas that heart was taken by chico and styke was messed up by saurez. he beat JUlio the coolo diaz . why didn't he ever call out chico, or castillo or cample or casa cuz he was scared i think pac carry's his power up and blasts diaZ in 10 rds
NOt me bro, I havent forgot about EL DInamita, not even for a sec. All this talk of Diaz fighting Pacman is pretty useless i think because it wont happen.. PAcman already stated that he will be staying at 130, plus Diaz is asking for too much money, 7 figures.... I doubt this fight will happen anytime soon so all this talk is getting annoying now..
WHy don't we talk about a fight that will actually happen? LIke marquez,valero, and soto.. :good
Those fights are more realistic and i agree with you... i just don't like it when people tend to create the idea that pac is scared of the baby bull. I really think that amongs the names mention JMM has bigger chance of beating Pac because of his counter punching ability.
Diaz will have a Problem catching Pac coz Pac's foot speed is incredibly faster than any in boxing today.
:patsch :lol: :lol: :lol:
nighthunter
10-15-2007, 09:04 PM
I want manny to fight either Valero or marquez then he can go for 135 then retire.
:-(
he is good but not "PBF" good... he is beatable just like pac. 50/50 fight...
nighthunter
10-15-2007, 09:10 PM
Yeah . . . there's so much unsettled business at 130 . . . why go up and fight the bigger boys for the same amount of money?
Got to clearly establish his name at 130 first. :yep
:good
bandeedo
10-15-2007, 09:29 PM
pac is running out of safe opponents so he is going to have to put up or his fans are going to have to shut up. i love to watch pac fight but it is no secret that he is not making the toughest fights for himself. i dont begrudge him for it but i also rate him accordingly. whether its him or his people, someone in his team doesnt think he can beat everybody at 130 or 135 or they would be taking all comers while pac is still near his prime. thats why i dont like comparisons of pac to someone like arguello who went out of his way to search out the toughest challenges.
theunderdog
10-15-2007, 10:31 PM
Watch out for El Inca cuz he's bringing the V-nom.. He's still pretty pissed about what Pacman called him, a tricycle driver..
get your facts straight boy. pac called valero's opponents as tricycle drivers. he did not insult valero straight up. it was valero who said that he will show the world that pac is also a tricycle driver
DobyZhee
10-15-2007, 10:53 PM
what's funny is that without boxing, Pac WOULD be a tricycle driver.
Those things are fun. I'm surprised tricycle racing has not become the NASCAR of the philippines.
Seriously though, Valero's opponents ARE garbage and just like every other professional fighter out there who has 20 wins under their belt. Hell everybody fights 20 or so 'tricycle drivers' before fighting a game opponent.
Lampley
10-15-2007, 10:54 PM
I think Pacquiao will start to be more seriously affected by the jump in weight at 135.
Manny isn't a big 130, and he's mostly been fighting other guys who spent most of their careers at lower weights. Against a prime, career LW such as Diaz, I think he's in trouble. Manny can win, but he'll have to be at his absolute peak, and I don't think he's been truly peak this year.
But maybe the right fight would bring it back out.
saul_ir34
10-15-2007, 10:54 PM
What about SOTO!!! he is far more deserving than Valero. I dont want Valero to fight Manny yet. He is too green. Its gonna be Fernando Vargas all over again. I see Soto as being ready though or the obvious choice JMM
DobyZhee
10-15-2007, 11:01 PM
Nahhhh..Valero vs Pac is what would sell...IN ASIA.
Come on..now its Pac fighting old men, now he's fighting guys who are too green.
Top Rank will eventually put a Soto-Manny Pac card eventually. I see that next year while squeezing JMM out of the picture.
saul_ir34
10-15-2007, 11:07 PM
How can you say he is not too green though he only has 22 fights. do you honestly think that is enough to step up to the #2 p4p fighter? call me crazy but i dont he needs more experience to develop into a more complete fighter.
But Soto is not that good imo. Just look what Bobby Pac did to him. Let's wait if he can survive Joan Guzman. Maybe Soto vs Solis will be better.
etong_08
10-15-2007, 11:13 PM
Why can't DIAz clean his own backyard first before taking over Pacquiao's yard. So should Pacquiao--there are lots of fights waiting for him in SF division.
saul_ir34
10-15-2007, 11:18 PM
Yea that is true. I want to see the Guzman fight first but i think he has what it takes. What exactly did Bobby do to Soto anyways. He got his ass handed to him in 7 rounds?? i do remember hearing he stunned him but who hasnt been stunned in boxing maybe it was just a lucky punch? i dont know really i havent seen the fight only the 7th round. some help on this please..
PATSYS
10-15-2007, 11:25 PM
Valero and Diaz should get it it on to see who deserves a fight against Pac.
psychopath
10-15-2007, 11:25 PM
Yea that is true. I want to see the Guzman fight first but i think he has what it takes. What exactly did Bobby do to Soto anyways. He got his ass handed to him in 7 rounds?? i do remember hearing he stunned him but who hasnt been stunned in boxing maybe it was just a lucky punch? i dont know really i havent seen the fight only the 7th round. some help on this please..
You didn't see the fight? :think
No WONDER YOU are giving Soto too much regards. :D
Lucky punch or not . . . that punch really stunned Soto . . . and if it was Pac in there he won't have time to recover, he is a dead meat. :yep
blackstrider
10-15-2007, 11:31 PM
What does Manny fighting Diaz have anything to do with Pinoys singing Karaoke? :huh
Maybe he's jealous cause he can't sing.:lol: Lalala...lala
saul_ir34
10-15-2007, 11:32 PM
You didn't see the fight? :think
No WONDER YOU are giving Soto too much regards. :D
Lucky punch or not . . . that punch really stunned Soto . . . and if it was Pac in there he won't have time to recover, he is a dead meat. :yep
Then again Soto was never Knocked out like Pac. Boxers go in there to get hit and they are human. They are bound to get hurt once in a while. however Soto hasnt been knocked out so you know he has got heart. out of all the Super feathers i give Soto the best chance. That may change depending on the Guzman outcome though.
psychopath
10-15-2007, 11:42 PM
Then again Soto was never Knocked out like Pac. Boxers go in there to get hit and they are human. They are bound to get hurt once in a while. however Soto hasnt been knocked out so you know he has got heart. out of all the Super feathers i give Soto the best chance. That may change depending on the Guzman outcome though.
Well yeah Soto hasn't been knocked out yet but check the level of his competition dude. He almost got knock out by a journeyman fighter there and he is not going to be tested against Guzman because Guzman doesn't have power to knock him out. :D
He should be fighting the likes of Juarez, Jeorge Solis or Valero to be tested. These fighters have high % of K.O. wins.
As to Pacquaio he passed and fought HOF fighters in MAB and Morales so his K.O.s 10 years ago is no longer a thing to be considered at present.:yep
psychopath
10-15-2007, 11:44 PM
Why can't DIAz clean his own backyard first before taking over Pacquiao's yard. So should Pacquiao--there are lots of fights waiting for him in SF division.
Simple buddy . . . he's got glory . . . but NO MONEY! :yep
Sister Sledge
10-15-2007, 11:45 PM
It seems like a lot of fans have fallen off the Pacman bandwagon because Manny has started to enjoy his celebrity status. You can't blame the guy for enjoying a better life. If you were from where he came from(and I've seen it firsthand) you would want to enjoy yourself a bit more too. The guy is still a great fighter. He hasn't really taken on any easy fights. It is good that there are so many challenges awaiting him, but everyone should remember that he is the big man on campus right now and can pick and choose who he wants to fight. There are some attractive fights out there(JMM), and there are some dangerous fights out there(Valero, Diaz). Let's just watch and enjoy the fireworks as long as Pac is on top.
Bangis
10-15-2007, 11:54 PM
i would rather see PAC fight at 130 than 135... after he fights jmm, soto, guzman and valero... he then can go to 135!
Morrissey
10-16-2007, 12:13 AM
I hate the fans not Paq. He is a great fighter but he needs to fight fresh fighters not old veterans. No he did not retire them they were old already. Solis is garbage.
With that kind of post, you could have very well admitted that you not only hate his fans, but him as well.
I don't really pick on haters, but you are one massive hypocrite, who is pretending that he likes the boxer, but not the boxer..:huh :patsch
If you hate Pac, then just say as it is. No need to hide behind that lame-ass, laughable excuse that you only hate his fans.:deal
PH|LLA
10-16-2007, 01:34 AM
whats your source?
Chert
10-16-2007, 01:47 AM
pac wants to fight valero when mab announced in their post-fight conference that valero was his successor and he is the man capable of beating pac. pac was challenged because of these remarks of barrera in front of the world-wide boxing media.
1punch1nder
10-16-2007, 02:05 AM
nice move by pac. diaz is way bigger than him and basing on his last 4 fights that ive seen, he got a granite chin. if pac can't hurt daz he will be in big trouble.
pejevan
10-16-2007, 03:44 AM
Diaz is a proven champ, with the most endurance in boxing, in his prime, and undefeated.
As good as Juan Diaz looked against Julio Diaz, one thing is certainly sure, Juan Diaz is still an untested commodity because of the quality of his opposition.
Many people are asking why Pac had been fighting 30+ years old Barrera, EM, MAB (even Guzman is already old), yet are not questioning how Juan got his WBA lightweight belt (against Sim, a 33 years old with a 19-3-1 record). The most notable in his resume is against Freitas but Freitas previous to that quit against Corrales. Then there are succesion of fighters he fought that are good but nowhere can be classified as class A fighter like Cotto (jose), Suico, Angulo.
Juan looked good because Julio made him look one. Julio fought a fight tailor-made for Juan. He has actually not fought anyone who moves in and out.
I am just wondering why Juan moved down from 140 to 135? The 135 had been relatively weak for a long time (it is still probably one of the weakest division now) and Juan debuted at 140. It is very unusual to start at a division then move down after.
retriever
10-16-2007, 03:47 AM
You know..The more you tell Pac that he shoudnt fight Diaz..the more he wants to fight the man.
pejevan
10-16-2007, 04:08 AM
He was Baby Fat before he called himself Baby Bull. He still is, though. :lol:
What happened to your number of post? Now, I outnumber you when I only post 1 or 2 per week.
pejevan
10-16-2007, 04:44 AM
Why can't DIAz clean his own backyard first before taking over Pacquiao's yard. So should Pacquiao--there are lots of fights waiting for him in SF division.
What's there to clean up anyway? The only fighters there are Casa, Katsidis. Even Eric Morales is number 7 at WBC and IBF when his two fights at 135 were losses. Even Suico is ranked there.
boxeo#1
10-16-2007, 05:11 AM
Heh, they are both dangerous period. One punches hard and the other too often. I guarentee that Pac has a better chance against Valero than he does against Juan. Juan would 2nd Base him to death as Bob Papa would say and would stop him in 7 or 8 rounds. Valero has a punchers chance sure...but Pac does have a good chin. Getting stopped by accumulation differs from 1 or 2 clean shots to the chin. One of them completely takes ALL of your will away (accumulation) and the other actually makes you want to fight on and continue (2 to the chin and KDed).
Yeah I was thinking about the same thing
:good
mad_takamura
10-16-2007, 05:23 AM
<p>valero has a much better chance then diaz. u guys just say this cuz u hate pac</p> partly right on the latter, but i also believe that baby bull is a dangerous fighter. he is a pure 135 pounder and with that speed, and pac's penchant to get stunned while being hit, pac would have a hard time on juan diaz. i noticed jd is not feather fisted anymore, or maybe julio ain't that durable.
Watching both Valero & Diaz, I would b much more nervous in a fight with Valero.
<p> </p>
<p>I believe the 2 ways to beat Pac would be to either outbox him or to KO him. Outboxing him will be a big problem cos aswell as the skill, you would need a great chin to take Pacs punches for 12 rounds and the legs to last that long. KO'ing him maybe an easier task, if valero lands a bomb, I can see Pac going down..</p>
<p> </p>
<p>This is sort of like a Barkley vs Hearns fight. Both men have the power to KO each other even though the other on paper should be much better. Not saying Pac's chin is shaky but it aint granite...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Diaz cant KO Pac or outbox him. He will take on Pac in a war of attrition...and I dont think anybody can beat Pac at that game 135lb and under. Pac has more power and speed. To put Pac's power into perspective, he KO Erik Morales in 3 rounds, a LW David Diaz couldnt do it in 12 so yeh, I definetly believe Pac has the power to carry to 135lb.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>He would stop Juan Diaz.</p>
jdiaz and pac would go toe to toe in a slugfest with blitzing speed. jd's style fits manny, but i'm afraid that pac's head being clacked back while being hit clean can be an advantage for baby bull, and for sure baby bull will follow that up with more combinations. i hope pac develops a stronger chin and stamina for jd.
with my fingers crossed,i just hope pac can really handle juan diaz's shots, and go toe to toe with him.
charlievint
10-16-2007, 09:05 AM
Can't blame him
:happy :happy :happy :happy :happy
LOL! PAC already chose Valero imediately after his fight with MAB fool!!:lol: I'm sure PAC feels that Juan can get it too! He just has to wait in line like everyone else who is trying to get on the PAC MAN gravy train. But I really want to see this fight! But it will have to wait until after he KO's Edwin.:good
charlievint
10-16-2007, 09:09 AM
Oh really?
Diaz is a proven champ, with the most endurance in boxing, in his prime, and undefeated.
On top of that, he is in the weight class above Pac, and perhaps we understand the significance of that.
Before you make stupid posts, think please. :good
Diaz is a proven champ with great stamina! What the fuck do you think PAC has proven over the course of 4 years besides Greatness?? Look ....
Both men (PAC & DIAZ) are proven fighters, both with great intensity and heart...it's a great match up that should be competitive...it will come down to who has more WILL..who can push whom back and who is more efficent with their pucnches b/c they both throw a lot of punches from "DING to DONG".
I'm going with PAC by KO by 5.....no later than round 8...Pac will get to the punch faster and land more and one of the punches will put the baby bull on his ass allowing PAC the opportunity to finish him off.
charlievint
10-16-2007, 09:10 AM
Well yea Diaz may be a bit more dangerous but EL inca is very dangerous because of his punching power. He has that eraser which Diaz doesn't have...
Valero is a very risky opponent for pacman.
VERY! Valero is the most dangerous fighter at this weight just because of the unreal power.
BewareofDawg
10-16-2007, 09:11 AM
Can't blame him
:happy :happy :happy :happy :happy
BREAKING NEWS
After watching Juan Diaz dismantle yet another top fighter, Manny Pac decides he would like to KEEP his P4P ranking and has offered his side of the purse if Morales will give him a 4th fight.
:nut
thewoo
10-16-2007, 09:46 AM
I'm glad pac is going for Valero. I been dying for pacman to do away with that hype.
SugarShane_24
10-16-2007, 10:29 AM
IMO Diaz would be too much for Pac.
Pac is still becoming a much more complete fighter and still peaking right now. But facing Diaz is a completely different matter.
Why?
For the simple fact that Diaz would be too big for Manny,
Diaz started his career at 135 and he is getting better at 135 and now being considered the best at 135. Pac hasn't even weighed 131 for a fight. He may have difficulty making 130. But it's an obvious result of having less time in preparation for the MAB fight. Which is also the reason why he seems fighting an off-night. Let Pac give up his extracurricular activities and he'll even be underweight. Check out his weights at all his fights at jr. lightweight. He never even broke 130 except for two fights.
Pacquiao may have it all. Speed, power, stamina, and recently, boxing skills. But every boxer has a limit. Even Sugar Ray Robinson, although leading on points, quit against Maxim. It's not just because of heat, it's also because Maxim took all of his punches and was still standing in front of him. We can also expect the same scenario here. Pac giving everything he's got but his power has waned and he is facing a very tough and true lightweight.
Lastly, Pac and his camp also knows when are they biting more than they can chew.
Truth is Pac is still the one of/the best fighter in the world. Had Diaz been a legit 130 fighter, he would realistically get stopped. All workrate, no power. Plus he stands in front of his opponent.
charlievint
10-16-2007, 02:16 PM
The more I think about this fight, the more I see Pac landing that monster left over and over again. I watched the PAC-MAB, DIaz-Diaz, fights again yesterday and Juan Diaz bullrushes in throwing punches, always coming forward. I mean, Pac must be salivating. Pac was launching lefts at MAB the whole night and was constantly missing. Why?? Coz MAB was backpedaling the whole time. When a left did land, it was never clean. Usually, MAB got tagged on his way back, but he still got rock.
Its simple math really. Diaz will be getting hit more and with more impact. How does Juan handle Pac's punches is the real key here. And like I said in a previous post, if Pac lands half the punches Julio did, I doubt Juan will be landing 300 punches of his own against Pac. Getting rocked in the head has a way of reducing your punchstats numbers.
I'd said before this is a 50/50 fight, but I have yet to see anyone survive who tried to outbrawl Pac. Juan doesn't have any clear advantages over Pac. In short, in this style of fighting...Pac's a more proven commodity. Imma go 60/40 in favor of Pac.
Very well stated!:good
Diaz is a proven champ with great stamina! What the fuck do you think PAC has proven over the course of 4 years besides Greatness?? Look ....
Both men (PAC & DIAZ) are proven fighters, both with great intensity and heart...it's a great match up that should be competitive...it will come down to who has more WILL..who can push whom back and who is more efficent with their pucnches b/c they both throw a lot of punches from "DING to DONG".
I'm going with PAC by KO by 5.....no later than round 8...Pac will get to the punch faster and land more and one of the punches will put the baby bull on his ass allowing PAC the opportunity to finish him off.
Do your read?
I never said Pac wasnt proven. This post was a response to someone saying that Valero had a better chance against Pac than Diaz, and is an explanation of what Diaz is which VALERO (NOT PAC) is not.
PacDbest
10-16-2007, 07:56 PM
Juan is naturally bigger then Pac yes, but to say Juan has a definitive size advantage over him is misleading. If Pac weighs 140's on fight nights at 130, it can be argued that he's not actually going up in weight @ 135 but rather fighting at a weight where he doesn't have to weight-drain and thus would be fresher. Rehydrating 15 lbs after the weigh-in shows that Pac's natural weightclass now is leaning towards 135. So no I don't think he loses speed, stamina, nor conditioning.
You can argue that some of the pop on Pac's punches might diminish simply by fighting bigger opposition....but the size of one's head stays the same even if you're the bigger fighter. I don't care how big you are if you get caught flush in the face, you're gonna feel it. Watching Juan's come-forward style, and having repeatedly seen the effectiveness of Pac's preferred weapon of choice....it's not hard to see a scenario where Juan rushes in to get into range only to be met by a straight left going the opposite direction.
Let's put this in perspective, when Pac throws that left...he's practically launching all 140 lbs of him into that punch. This is why he has "carried" his power all the way up with him. This is also why "technicians" were the ones to do well against him, because they would make Pac miss and just the force of the punch would make Pac unbalanced and open to counters. To say that Juan, being the naturally bigger fighter, takes that punch with a smile is absolutely giving Pac no credit. Juan's pressure style, and the fact that he throws a lot of punches increases the probability of Pac landing one of his bombs. And to add to this, Juan needs to get close to throw whereas Pac launches from a distance, darting in and out. Longer range.
Im not saying Juan couldn't win this fight, he's as skilled as there is offensively but his style of fighting amplifies what Pac does best and whatever size advantage he has that he can bully Pac with is negligible since Pac won't just be standing there in front of him, that's what having fast feet provides....just ask Floyd.
Agreed!!! Now I'm not alone ...:good
Sweet Pea Pacquiao
10-16-2007, 07:56 PM
Watch out for El Inca cuz he's bringing the V-nom.. He's still pretty pissed about what Pacman called him, a tricycle driver..
Wrong. Pacquiao said that Valero's competition so far "was a bunch of tricycle drivers." He didn't call Valero one.
Juan is naturally bigger then Pac yes, but to say Juan has a definitive size advantage over him is misleading. If Pac weighs 140's on fight nights at 130, it can be argued that he's not actually going up in weight @ 135 but rather fighting at a weight where he doesn't have to weight-drain and thus would be fresher. Rehydrating 15 lbs after the weigh-in shows that Pac's natural weightclass now is leaning towards 135. So no I don't think he loses speed, stamina, nor conditioning.
You can argue that some of the pop on Pac's punches might diminish simply by fighting bigger opposition....but the size of one's head stays the same even if you're the bigger fighter. I don't care how big you are if you get caught flush in the face, you're gonna feel it. Watching Juan's come-forward style, and having repeatedly seen the effectiveness of Pac's preferred weapon of choice....it's not hard to see a scenario where Juan rushes in to get into range only to be met by a straight left going the opposite direction.
Let's put this in perspective, when Pac throws that left...he's practically launching all 140 lbs of him into that punch. This is why he has "carried" his power all the way up with him. This is also why "technicians" were the ones to do well against him, because they would make Pac miss and just the force of the punch would make Pac unbalanced and open to counters. To say that Juan, being the naturally bigger fighter, takes that punch with a smile is absolutely giving Pac no credit. Juan's pressure style, and the fact that he throws a lot of punches increases the probability of Pac landing one of his bombs. And to add to this, Juan needs to get close to throw whereas Pac launches from a distance, darting in and out. Longer range.
Im not saying Juan couldn't win this fight, he's as skilled as there is offensively but his style of fighting amplifies what Pac does best and whatever size advantage he has that he can bully Pac with is negligible since Pac won't just be standing there in front of him, that's what having fast feet provides....just ask Floyd.
:good
Pac's fast feet (in and out) and that laser like straight left thrown from the outside will be the key.
DobyZhee
10-16-2007, 08:43 PM
How can you say he is not too green though he only has 22 fights. do you honestly think that is enough to step up to the #2 p4p fighter? call me crazy but i dont he needs more experience to develop into a more complete fighter.
Boxing can be a sport where they eat their young. Hey, if this loss makes Valero washed up. So be it....
Valero has sparred with Pac in the past. They know each other.
I want to see knockouts and fireworks, not another MAB or JMM yawnfest.
DobyZhee
10-16-2007, 08:59 PM
yeah really...go watch InJin Chi in that Mixed martial arts nonsense that Injin is forced to go to because he couldn't draw koreans to a bowl of kimchi to watch him fight.
Bangis
10-16-2007, 09:02 PM
Boxing can be a sport where they eat their young. Hey, if this loss makes Valero washed up. So be it....
Valero has sparred with Pac in the past. They know each other.
I want to see knockouts and fireworks, not another MAB or JMM yawnfest.
well i didnt knew that... when did this happened? and what happened during their sparring?
DobyZhee
10-16-2007, 09:05 PM
they've sparred against each other and it isn't on Youtube.
vBulletin® v3.8.0, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.