Name some fighters who had great potential but wasted it away..

[RAMPAGE0017]

.. on the likes of drugs, booze, troubles with the law, mental problems, anything you can think of.

[Smokin'Joe100]

Aaron Pryor

[RAMPAGE0017]

I guess Leon Spinks is the most obvious choice. Olympic gold-medalist, heavyweight champion, then got taken by the wrong crowd.

[mr. magoo]

.. on the likes of drugs, booze, troubles with the law, mental problems, anything you can think of.


This would pretty much account for most of them post 1970...

[RAMPAGE0017]

This would pretty much account for most of them post 1970...


Well.. name the ones who you think had the greatest potential. :D

[Titan1]

Greg Page
Donald Curry
Davey Moore
Bernard Mays
Alex Ramos.

[salsanchezfan]

Mando Ramos

[Marnoff]

Tyson... had his management stayed together, Cus lived, and on and on, he probably goes undefeated for many more years.

[mightyd40]

i think i've seen this thread before. Oh yeh, i remember now. This thread was already posted around 300 times.
wow u have seen this thread that many times and u only have 4 post......dont post often do u

[mcvey]

.. on the likes of drugs, booze, troubles with the law, mental problems, anything you can think of.
Isuppose you could name most of Don Kings heavweight stable at one time.
Some others,Tony Ayala,Kirkland Laing,Jeff Merrit.

[salsanchezfan]

i think i've seen this thread before. Oh yeh, i remember now. This thread was already posted around 300 times.


.............I believe you're lost, sir.

Go up to the intersection here, hang a left, and follow the signs to "General Forum."

[Arthur]

Matt Hilton

[garymcfall]

mike tyson, scott harrison

[Mike T]

Ayala, Ike, Ricky Womack

[Titan1]

Michael Dokes
Tony Tucker.

[bladerunner]

James Toney couldve been much more if it wasnt for his obsession with food.

[Titan1]

Milton McCrory

[joe33]

Golotta maybe,i was watching the 2nd bowe fight last night, and at times he looked really good,such a pity, i used to like the guy,but he must have been mental,he fell apart against lewis and tyson,and had bowe beat twice,before he tried to rip his nuts off.

[Boro chris]

Kirkland Laing-Apparently he used to get stoned b4 a fight.

[stake501]

Naseem Hamed if he had stayed with Ingle and not listened to his brothers.

He could have been a p4p atg

[Bill1234]

Mikchael Dokes was the first person to pop into my mind.

[JohnThomas1]

Super Greg Page

[janitor]

James Toney couldve been much more if it wasnt for his obsession with food.

The margin by which he failed to beat John Ruiz and Hasim Ramhan is the margine by which he missed being ring heavyweight champion.

[TBooze]

Drugs wise:

Michael Nunn
Khalid Shafiq
Tony Ayala
Ricky Womack
Evander Holyfield (maybe)
Ray Leonard
James Toney
Tony Tubbs
Tony Tucker
Tim Witherspoon
Pinklon Thomas

[Holmes' Jab]

Greg Page
Michael Dokes
Tony Tubbs
Pinklon Thomas
Riddick Bowe

[la-califa]

Oliver McCall, Gerry Cooney, Tony Ayala Jr., Naseem Hamed, Hector Camacho Jr & Sr.

[mr. magoo]

Gerry Cooney is a big name that comes to mind.

[Ramon Rojo]

Mike Tyson

[Bill1234]

Super Greg Page

:yep

[mr. magoo]

I'm wondering if Oscar Bonavena might have been better had he toned down his lifestyle a bit. Oscar was well known for going out on the town the night before a fight, and partying his ass off. He would wind up in his hotel room with multiple women at 2 or 3 oclock in the morning, just a few hours before he had to wake up and have breakfast.

[Doc McCoy]

He would wind up in his hotel room with multiple women at 2 or 3 oclock in the morning, just a few hours before he had to wake up and have breakfast.

Sounds like he was already having it to me. :good

[TBooze]

Forgot the Hilton Brothers...

[Duodenum]

Duran. As great as he was, what might he have accomplished if he had the discipline of an SRR or Hagler?

I disagree with the selections of Cooney and Laing. Kirkland had been taken out twice by Colin Jones at the time he upset a dismal version of Duran (who would have easily kayoed Laing if properly motivated for a rematch). SRL was never in less than top physical condition for the key matches of his career, and I think he actually surpassed what most expected he'd accomplish. As for Cooney, the fact is that he couldn't take a solid shot to the temple, and was too slow to be any kind of substantial champion. For my money, Dennis Rappaport and Mike Jones belong in the IBHOF for selling the limited Cooney to the public as a viable challenger for the title.

If SRL was contributing to this thread, he might name Roger Stafford. After Stafford upset Cuevas, Ray was certain that he would inherit the undisputed WW Title SRL was vacating. (Ray abruptly retired on the brink of defending that championship against Stafford.) Leonard's guess was that Stafford was irreparably demoralized by not having the opportunity to challenge Ray.

Dwight Davison. (How many dozens of times has HE been cited on previous threads about this?)

Macho Camacho. He could have been boxing's first world champion to reach 100-0-0. If he made the most of himself, he might still be undefeated today.

I think Greg Page did as well as he could have. At 220, his losses were dismal. I don't think he had the quickness, interest, or temperament to go beyond what he achieved. Aaron Pryor is a popular choice, but there were realistically no more worlds for him to conquer after his sensational victories over Arguello. I consider their first match in Miami to be the fight of the last quarter of the 20th Century anyway. (The greatest bout after Manila in '75.) The Hawk simply never would have matched that achivement with anything remaining available to him.

Jimmy Young. The SD loss to Norton broke his spirit, and ultimately cost him a premature demise.

Bobby Chacon. I think Schoolboy's a worthy IBHOFer, but his career could have mirrored Arguello's own glittering accomplishments. The coke which messed him up early was cola, not powder, but soda.

Dwight Qawi, and of course, Eddie Mustapha Muhammad. If Eddie was in peak condition, instead of struggling to make weight, would he have repelled the challenge of Mike Spinks successfully?. As for Qawi, how long could he have continued if he'd kept his appetite under control?

Pernell Whitaker. Sweet Pea should have been 42-0 when he took on DLH, and if he'd kept himself clean, he might still be on top today.

[Titan1]

Mitch Green

[Vantage_West]

Kirkland Laing-Apparently he used to get stoned b4 a fight.:rasta gwud mon

it be relaxing da muscles
tyson did aswell for the tyson galota fight

jah leaves works it seems


bless

[RafaelGonzal]

Mike Tyson
Hector Camacho
Tony Ayala
Gerry Cooney
Mike Ibeabuchi
Aaron Pryor

[mexman]

Anybody remember Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzales, a dynamite Mexican lightweight from the early 80's? He was knocking guys out right and left and getting a lot of coverage in the boxing magazines. He KO'd Vilomar Fernandez, a very good lightweight, in 1 round. Fernandez said Gato punched harder than either Roberto Duran or Alexis Arguello. Gonzales got a title shot against Claude Noel and looked listless and very unspectacular in losing a 15 round decision. After that fight, I never heard from him again. It looked for awhile he was going to be the next big thing in boxing.

[Duodenum]

Anybody remember Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzales, a dynamite Mexican lightweight from the early 80's? He was knocking guys out right and left and getting a lot of coverage in the boxing magazines. He KO'd Vilomar Fernandez, a very good lightweight, in 1 round. Fernandez said Gato punched harder than either Roberto Duran or Alexis Arguello. Gonzales got a title shot against Claude Noel and looked listless and very unspectacular in losing a 15 round decision. After that fight, I never heard from him again. It looked for awhile he was going to be the next big thing in boxing.In that bout, Gato continually retreated, trying to lure the 34 year old Noel into one of his counter right hand bombs. Being a solid veteran, Noel understood what Gato was tring to do, and pursued him diligently, but with due caution. Gonzales was reported to be a major force with his right, but Noel's experience was simply too much for the prodgy to handle.

Noel came out of that match with a nasty swollen eye, but he inflicted the far greater damage, fracturing Gato's jaw. Nonetheless, Rodolfo courageously finished the match. He had a couple more title shots later in his career, but the luster was gone after Noel blemished his record, and he never did become a champion.

[JohnThomas1]

Dwight Davison. (How many dozens of times has HE been cited on previous threads about this?)


Personally i never thought Dwight was all that. He got a lot of milage out of the Scypion win but was exposed later. Scypion himself was very inconsistent.

Macho Camacho. He could have been boxing's first world champion to reach 100-0-0. If he made the most of himself, he might still be undefeated today.

Camacho lacked the intestinal fortitude to be up on the absolute top rung. Talent to burn, but when push came to shove he was found a little short. Against the greatest he lacked the x factor required to lay it all on the line and risk all for that ever important "W"

Eddie Mustapha Muhammad. If Eddie was in peak condition, instead of struggling to make weight, would he have repelled the challenge of Mike Spinks successfully?.

Great question, totally agree with your line of thought.

Aaron Pryor is a popular choice, but there were realistically no more worlds for him to conquer after his sensational victories over Arguello. I consider their first match in Miami to be the fight of the last quarter of the 20th Century anyway. (The greatest bout after Manila in '75.) The Hawk simply never would have matched that achivement with anything remaining available to him.

If he kept clean Pryor had a much bigger trophy on the potentiasl horizon, streaking Donald Curry. The match wasn't far of being made. Curry was the consensus number 2 P4P not long after Pryor went off the rails. Tho great wins Alexis was in the final stages of his career and well up in the weights.

I think Greg Page did as well as he could have. At 220, his losses were dismal. I don't think he had the quickness, interest, or temperament to go beyond what he achieved.

Quickness? Page at his best was in the top 3 fastest heavies on earth with Dokes and Holmes. He was freakishly fast for a big man in his younger years on song. Interest and temperment i'll agree on, but quickness no way Jose. By the time Page fought Orlin Norris, Mark Wills and co at 220 (the fights you speak of) the man was washed up. He found some short term serious motivation, but alas too late. His best two efforts ever were at 227 and 236 1/2. I would have liked to see him fighting in the high 220's but it was never going to happen in his younger day. He fought brilliantly at 227 vs Snipes then 2 fights later for the title vs Witherspoon he;s cruising at 239 1/2. Wasted talent abound due to motivation and lack of fire, which is exactly what the thread is about. A real shame.

[Arthur]

Corey Sanders. This guy had a powerful short left hook that was deadly. But the bastard never seemed to come into a fight in shape. I remember Larry Merchant saying that Corey Sanders was the greatest underachiever in the heavyweight division of his time.

[Duodenum]

JT, here's my thinking about the selections I made which you commented on.

My introduction to Dwight Davison was against Curtis Parker (as it was for most everybody else). The undefeated Parker had made a tremendous impression against David Love and Mike Colbert, then Davison stopped Curtis in his tracks. (If you recall, one ringside observer who was very impressed was Ali.) Next time I saw him, he did the walking tank job against Tony Sibson, and I had no interest in Davison after that performance. (If he'd tried at all, I'm convinced he would have challenged Hagler, as nothing Sibson did could hurt Davison, and it looked to me as if Dwight could manhandle Tony as he did Parker.)

I don't think a Pryor victory over Don Curry would have carried the historic significance his stoppage victories over Arguello has. Alexis did go on to kayo Billy Costello, a perfectly competent former champion. Going into the first bout with Arguello, there was a serious question of whether or not Pryor could win. But the general consensus after his rematch kayo was that Aaron would overwhelm Don Curry. When Pryor was commenting on Leroy Haley's rematch win over Bruce Curry, Pryor didn't mention any interest in facing Bruce's brother, only Ray Mancini. (It was believed that Boom-Boom might be strong enough to stand up to Pryor, while questions about the Curry family chin may have hampered the marketability of a Pryor/Curry match against either brother.)

Regarding Greg Page, in his post-match evaluation of Greg, Stan Ward made the distinction between speed and quickness, when he said, "He's fast, but he's not that quick." Ward indicated that he could see Page's punches coming, and that a more defensively skilled boxer might make him miss more easily. (Dokes was easily the quickest handed young contender in HW boxing at the time. He delivered shorter punches than Greg, and without telegraphing, especially with his lead hook.) As we've discussed previously, I wasn't impressed with Greg's performance at 220 against Berbick, and felt he was at his competitive best against Marty Monroe, and when Coetzee lit a fire under Page by calling him a jerk. (I only remember Page's win over Snipes because of Camacho's heckling from the ringside audience.)

I'm sure boxing fans all over the world were tearing their hair out over Eddie. Even when he dethroned Marvin Johnson, he could have ended it in the early rounds. Eddie may be the biggest underachiever of boxing's last 35 years.

[Mantequilla]

Bernard Mays

John Conteh.

[Nick Balsamo]

Never heard of Ricky Womack... how good was he ?

[joe33]

What about max baer?,i know he held the title,but he liked to dick around, and after seeing two men he fought against die in the ring,he was said to have lost his killer drive,imagine if he had trained like louis or marciano do you think he may have dominated the division?,as he sure had a big dig on him.

[josak]

Tyson, in a way. I think it's unfair to say he 'wasted' his potential, considering his accomplishments, but he certainly could have done a lot more given the talent he had.

[pipe wrenched]

Tyson... had his management stayed together, Cus lived, and on and on, he probably goes undefeated for many more years.


:good I say Tyson as well.

[JohnThomas1]

My introduction to Dwight Davison was against Curtis Parker (as it was for most everybody else). The undefeated Parker had made a tremendous impression against David Love and Mike Colbert, then Davison stopped Curtis in his tracks. (If you recall, one ringside observer who was very impressed was Ali.) Next time I saw him, he did the walking tank job against Tony Sibson, and I had no interest in Davison after that performance. (If he'd tried at all, I'm convinced he would have challenged Hagler, as nothing Sibson did could hurt Davison, and it looked to me as if Dwight could manhandle Tony as he did Parker.)


Dwight's win over Parker was noteworthy and he had some talent but many fighters would be more worthy of a mention IMO. Over the course of his career he didn't really do much at all. Sibson was a pretty decent pug tho and got the most of his ability. From memory Sibson won easily didn't he?

I don't think a Pryor victory over Don Curry would have carried the historic significance his stoppage victories over Arguello has. Alexis did go on to kayo Billy Costello, a perfectly competent former champion. Going into the first bout with Arguello, there was a serious question of whether or not Pryor could win. But the general consensus after his rematch kayo was that Aaron would overwhelm Don Curry. When Pryor was commenting on Leroy Haley's rematch win over Bruce Curry, Pryor didn't mention any interest in facing Bruce's brother, only Ray Mancini. (It was believed that Boom-Boom might be strong enough to stand up to Pryor, while questions about the Curry family chin may have hampered the marketability of a Pryor/Curry match against either brother.)

I think you're concentrating on the wrong time period. Pryor beat Arguello again in late 83. Curry made the wrold sit up and take severe notice thru 84 and 85 culminating in his total anniliation of McCrory. This was December 85. He was ranked the second greatest fighter on earth behind Marvin Hagler. This is the Curry i am thinking of. This is the period i have in mind. If Pryor had not gone off the rails this fight would have been HUGE. Pryor's peak quotient without the drugs and burnout would have been excellent still of course. A victory over this Curry (moving up in weight to boot) would have been definitely more noteworthy than the victory over an aging and up in weight Arguello. Curry's star was bright, a fully fledged 147 pounds, great speed, excellent power, he appeared to have the lot. Personally i think this Curry was too strong, fast, big and technically sound for Pryor and would have stopped him. Pryor's open (and overwhelming at 140) and agressive style would have given Curry, at the peak of his sharpness more than enough chances to close the show IMO.

Regarding Greg Page, in his post-match evaluation of Greg, Stan Ward made the distinction between speed and quickness, when he said, "He's fast, but he's not that quick." Ward indicated that he could see Page's punches coming, and that a more defensively skilled boxer might make him miss more easily. (Dokes was easily the quickest handed young contender in HW boxing at the time. He delivered shorter punches than Greg, and without telegraphing, especially with his lead hook.) As we've discussed previously, I wasn't impressed with Greg's performance at 220 against Berbick, and felt he was at his competitive best against Marty Monroe, and when Coetzee lit a fire under Page by calling him a jerk. (I only remember Page's win over Snipes because of Camacho's heckling from the ringside audience.)

Personally i've learned not to take too much stock regarding some of the things fighters say when beaten. Page hammered Ward, a very fine heavyweight at the time. As a matter of fact i think Ward quit in his corner. Page certainly had little trouble landing some very substancial shots.

Dokes MAY have been a fraction quicker in his own way. One great writer once said, "Dokes is the fastest heavyweight in boxing - for 3 rounds". In his prime years he did lose snap pretty quick.

Berbick. A few points. This was a big step up for the up and coming Page. He blamed boiling down to a too light weight to please the critics as a significant point in this loss. He also broke his right thumb very early. Regardless Berbick's smothering style and excellent strength was always going to trouble Page at any time. Page's best weight IMO would have been high 220's. The best shape i ever seen him in was Snipes. Perfect weight and good shape.

I'm sure boxing fans all over the world were tearing their hair out over Eddie. Even when he dethroned Marvin Johnson, he could have ended it in the early rounds. Eddie may be the biggest underachiever of boxing's last 35 years.

Where have you been all my life?!?!!? Totally agree, Eddie was so damn talented it's a fukking tragedy. If he didn't have to lose 30 odd pounds in not time i think he might have taken Spinks. As it was he was smoothly outboxing him before drainage set in and his eye was closed. Sensational talent.

[laxpdx]

Tony Ayala. That guy had extraordinary talent, even as a small child. Besides battering Cuevas at 14, at 9 he KOed a 15 y.o.-in the third round. Not to mention, from age 8 on, he NEVER lost a fight.

Tony would've been the next Hagler, imho. He had the ingredients.

[Duodenum]

You know JT, I can't even contemplate looking at tapes of Eddie's performances without getting frustrated. Lotte Mwale was the only match I saw him in which offered a hint of what he should have achieved. The truth is, he should have dethroned Galindez in 1977, and with his style of boxing, he might STILL be LH champion, for all we know. (If you recall, it looked like Eddie wasn't going to make weight for the Spinks defense, and have to forfeit the title. Saad Muhammad invaded his hotel room, and made him skip rope to take off the excess weight, then loudly encouraged on his WBA counterpart from ringside, as Eddie lost the belt.)

Sibson was a hustler who worked for his wins, and as I recall, he shut Davison out.

Pryor lapsed into cocaine use after the rematch with Arguello, and was no longer going to be competitive by the time Donald Curry emerged as a top P4P contender. Taking into account your expectation that Curry would have been too much for Aaron (and you may well be right), then Pryor may indeed have carried his legacy as far as it could go, and would have risked diminishing it with a high profile loss to Don Curry. In the popular imagination, Pryor's career ended with the Arguello rematch.

Stan Ward did indeed quit in his corner, and I think he may have been citing a thumb in his eye as the reason. Normally, I'd automatically dismiss comments from a defeated boxer in a situation like that, yet Ward did sprinkle in some positive observations about Page, along with the less flattering impressions. Although his most well known win was over Coetzee, his best condition probably was for Snipes. Still, I'm not convinced that sustaining that level of fitness could have transformed Greg into a dominant champion. Holmes was far more impressive against Renaldo. (Aside from Snipes's knockdown, in a round I only scored 10-9 for Snipes, I had Larry pitching a shutout. Under Olympic scoring rules, Larry would have won the knockdown round outright. In both title defenses where Larry was floored, those knockdowns were the only thing preventing Larry from pitching shutouts when those matches were stopped.)

Concerning Dokes, speed can certainly diminish over the course of a match, just as punching power can, so it shouldn't be surprising that Dokes was no exception.

[Napoleon]

I always thought Vitali Klitschko had great potential that he wasted by retiring.

[Black Eyes To You]

Aaron Pryor
Paulie Ayala
Naz
Diego Corrales
David Tua
Michael Nunn
Leon Spinks

[Titan1]

Tony Santana.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Leon Spinks


Spinks is a funny one. He definitely pissed away what talent he had but he overachieved massively in becoming undsiputed heavy champ.

[Titan1]

James Broad

[Black Eyes To You]

'Spinks is a funny one. He definitely pissed away what talent he had but he overachieved massively in becoming undsiputed heavy champ.

Agreed. Always wondered in the back of my mind 'what if' with him though.

[Danny Ocean]

tapia
marquez has had a great career but it really could have been so much more

[Black Eyes To You]

tapia
marquez has had a great career but it really could have been so much more
Johnny Tapia is one of my favorite fighters but I think he did the best with the tools he had and actually more with the attitude he carried. :good

[JohnThomas1]

You know JT, I can't even contemplate looking at tapes of Eddie's performances without getting frustrated. Lotte Mwale was the only match I saw him in which offered a hint of what he should have achieved. The truth is, he should have dethroned Galindez in 1977, and with his style of boxing, he might STILL be LH champion, for all we know. (If you recall, it looked like Eddie wasn't going to make weight for the Spinks defense, and have to forfeit the title. Saad Muhammad invaded his hotel room, and made him skip rope to take off the excess weight, then loudly encouraged on his WBA counterpart from ringside, as Eddie lost the belt.)


Excellent insights there. Eddie had some serious toolage but was far too passive far too often. You being so well versed in the era might remember that robber (Howard Smith?) setting up his supercard, Saad - Eddie, Hearns - Benitez and many more. Saad and Eddie said we can't fight, we are religious brothers. They upped the purse substancially and they changed their minds :lol:

Pryor lapsed into cocaine use after the rematch with Arguello, and was no longer going to be competitive by the time Donald Curry emerged as a top P4P contender. Taking into account your expectation that Curry would have been too much for Aaron (and you may well be right), then Pryor may indeed have carried his legacy as far as it could go, and would have risked diminishing it with a high profile loss to Don Curry. In the popular imagination, Pryor's career ended with the Arguello rematch.

Yeah, this is where we are getting mixed up. I don't believe Pryor wasted his talent in the time he was champ, he wasted it by burning out so soon when he should not have. If not for drugs etc he would have been not far at all from peak and certainly still in his prime when Curry's star burst forth. IMO Pryor peaked around the Arguello fights and was poised to cash in but SRL retired and he burnt out. He was always clamouring for the big fights and money and would have taken Curry on at a whim if still in top form.

Still, I'm not convinced that sustaining that level of fitness could have transformed Greg into a dominant champion. Holmes was far more impressive against Renaldo. (Aside from Snipes's knockdown, in a round I only scored 10-9 for Snipes, I had Larry pitching a shutout.

Granted Holmes schooled Snipes but the facts are he was so close to being stopped it isn't funny. He reeled into the turnbuckle after rising from a very heavy KD. By contrast Page was never even remotely in that sort of trouble, tho a teeny bit less dominating than Holmes had been excepting the near stoppage. Kudo's to Larry's enormous heart and ability to hammer under duress.

Concerning Dokes, speed can certainly diminish over the course of a match, just as punching power can, so it shouldn't be surprising that Dokes was no exception.

The point they made was that Dokes lost his speed far earlier and more substancially than others.

Great posts too by the way, been reading some of your work around the joint and it's thrilling to see someone who knows my (Sal's and many others) era so damn well, the nostalgic facts and points are a treat!

[unitas]

jose luis lopez.

[NickHudson]

Agreed, was a tragedy that he never fulfilled his staggering promise. one of the most athletic boxers i have ever seen.

as an englishman growing up watching numerous homegrown failures (particularly on the football pitch, but also in other sports) Naz was a refreshing change.

Naseem Hamed if he had stayed with Ingle and not listened to his brothers.

He could have been a p4p atg

[killerkai1]

Riddick Bowe, say no more.

[Duodenum]

Excellent insights there. Eddie had some serious toolage but was far too passive far too often. You being so well versed in the era might remember that robber (Howard Smith?) setting up his supercard, Saad - Eddie, Hearns - Benitez and many more. Saad and Eddie said we can't fight, we are religious brothers. They upped the purse substancially and they changed their minds :lol:What was his real name anyways, Ross Fields? (For a while there, he really did screw up Arum and King with his MAPS promotions.)Yeah, this is where we are getting mixed up. I don't believe Pryor wasted his talent in the time he was champ, he wasted it by burning out so soon when he should not have. If not for drugs etc he would have been not far at all from peak and certainly still in his prime when Curry's star burst forth. IMO Pryor peaked around the Arguello fights and was poised to cash in but SRL retired and he burnt out. He was always clamouring for the big fights and money and would have taken Curry on at a whim if still in top form.True, but if I was The Hawk, I've be perfectly contented with the legacy he did achieve, nonetheless.Granted Holmes schooled Snipes but the facts are he was so close to being stopped it isn't funny. He reeled into the turnbuckle after rising from a very heavy KD. By contrast Page was never even remotely in that sort of trouble, tho a teeny bit less dominating than Holmes had been excepting the near stoppage. Kudo's to Larry's enormous heart and ability to hammer under duress. Great posts too by the way, been reading some of your work around the joint and it's thrilling to see someone who knows my (Sal's and many others) era so damn well, the nostalgic facts and points are a treat!The foolishly rookie mistake Renaldo made was standing over Larry's prone form on the canvas, arms upraised in triumph, forcing the referee to turn his back on Larry to physically escort Snipes all the way across the ring to the far neutral corner, on the opposite side from where Larry had just been floored. It was as the referee's back was turned that Larry fell face forward into the nearest corner when he got up. If the referee had seen Larry's stumble into the ring post after getting up, perhaps he would have stopped the contest then and there, but Renaldo's foolish behavior and lack of respect for his opponent cost the referee the opportunity to see Larry stumble into the corner, face first.

Whatever is said about Larry's conduct outside the ring, he was all business when the belll rang, and gave his opponents the respect during competition they didn't always afford him. Larry boxed as the challenger who had something to prove, and he became a record setting champion in the process.(First undefeated boxer to win 20 consecutive title defenses, and the first champion to defend it successfully in eight consecutive calendar years.)

Thanks for the kind words about my posts. I have a very long way to go before I'm going to become satisfied with the quality of my comments, but having never posted anything on-line before, I seem to be getting received pretty well by the veteran members of this board, and hope to continue improving (as long as I avoid discussing issues I'm not sufficiently informed about).

[Thread Stealer]

Riddick Bowe
Hector Camacho Sr.

[dmille]

Benny Lynch
Jack Delaney
Jimmy Slattery
Lew Jenkins
Bobby Chacon

[mario]

my boy smokin' bert cooper, accomplished alot , he won 5 titles, but could have did alot more if he stayed away from drugs

[Bigcat]

Naseem Hamed..
Ike ibeabuchi..
Riddick Bowe...

were too content and never seized the moment to its fullest..

Naz .......... too cash happy to return from a loss..

Ike just *******s....

Bowe never realised what he had..

[Bigcat]

whats up with the word *******s......????????

[Bigcat]

C R A C K E R S ...................

whats the deal..?

[Titan1]

James Tillis
Jackie Beard

[Titan1]

Dwight's win over Parker was noteworthy and he had some talent but many fighters would be more worthy of a mention IMO. Over the course of his career he didn't really do much at all. Sibson was a pretty decent pug tho and got the most of his ability. From memory Sibson won easily didn't he?



I think you're concentrating on the wrong time period. Pryor beat Arguello again in late 83. Curry made the wrold sit up and take severe notice thru 84 and 85 culminating in his total anniliation of McCrory. This was December 85. He was ranked the second greatest fighter on earth behind Marvin Hagler. This is the Curry i am thinking of. This is the period i have in mind. If Pryor had not gone off the rails this fight would have been HUGE. Pryor's peak quotient without the drugs and burnout would have been excellent still of course. A victory over this Curry (moving up in weight to boot) would have been definitely more noteworthy than the victory over an aging and up in weight Arguello. Curry's star was bright, a fully fledged 147 pounds, great speed, excellent power, he appeared to have the lot. Personally i think this Curry was too strong, fast, big and technically sound for Pryor and would have stopped him. Pryor's open (and overwhelming at 140) and agressive style would have given Curry, at the peak of his sharpness more than enough chances to close the show IMO.



Personally i've learned not to take too much stock regarding some of the things fighters say when beaten. Page hammered Ward, a very fine heavyweight at the time. As a matter of fact i think Ward quit in his corner. Page certainly had little trouble landing some very substancial shots.

Dokes MAY have been a fraction quicker in his own way. One great writer once said, "Dokes is the fastest heavyweight in boxing - for 3 rounds". In his prime years he did lose snap pretty quick.

Berbick. A few points. This was a big step up for the up and coming Page. He blamed boiling down to a too light weight to please the critics as a significant point in this loss. He also broke his right thumb very early. Regardless Berbick's smothering style and excellent strength was always going to trouble Page at any time. Page's best weight IMO would have been high 220's. The best shape i ever seen him in was Snipes. Perfect weight and good shape.



Where have you been all my life?!?!!? Totally agree, Eddie was so damn talented it's a fukking tragedy. If he didn't have to lose 30 odd pounds in not time i think he might have taken Spinks. As it was he was smoothly outboxing him before drainage set in and his eye was closed. Sensational talent.

hand speed:
Combination-Dokes
One Punch-Page

Very Debatable.