Arthur Abraham - Wayne Elcock on December 8th

[Chillman]

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Elcock is the current British Middleweight Champion (beat Howard Eastman last month) and RING #10.

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[scorpy]

Elcock is the current British Middleweight Champion (beat Howard Eastman last month) and RING #10.

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Not to knock on Elcock but I hope this is not true...

Abraham should be targeting much better opponents.

[Tom_Tocca]

Not to knock on Elcock but I hope this is not true...

Abraham should be targeting much better opponents.

It's an ok fight for a stay-busy...and maybe Abraham will get some exposure on SkySports...

[Vantage_West]

i dont know why not not a great challenger but a good euro world title tilt.

[Luigi1985]

I don´t know why he wastes his time with facing only bums and 2nd-raters,, he´s really talented, he reminds me on Erdei, so to speak the Sauerland- Erdei...

[Boro chris]

It's an ok fight for a stay-busy...and maybe Abraham will get some exposure on SkySports...

Yeah but he's had 3 stay busy fights in a row. I think pressure needs to be put on him and Pavlik for a unification fight.

[yesihavearm]

Sigh

Abraham fighting another no hoper, whats new ?

One of the worst champions in boxing, cant wait till he steps up (if ever) and gets ktfo

[Chillman]

IBF middleweight ratings for October:

1 NOT RATED 2 NOT RATED
3 Sebastian Sylvester 4 Giovanni Lorenzo 5 Jermain Taylor 6 Ronald Wright 7 Sam Soliman 8 Amin Asikainen 9 Khoren Gevor 10 Fulgencio Zuniga 11 Javier Castillejo 12 Wayne Elcock 13 John Duddy 14 Gary Lockett 15 Mahir Oral

Who out of these would have been a better AND still realistic choice for a voluntary defense in Switzerland?

[Big Ears]

Elcock isn't in the same class as Abraham and I reckon Abraham should stop him , but best of luck to Elcock . At least he is willing to take risks .

Unlike one of Frank ******'s favourites Gary Lockett , whose team seem to have opted for a vacant WBO title challenge(whenever Pavlik drops the belt) instead .

[boxeo#1]

I second that!

Abraham is proving to be just another protected German fighter. His biggest win was a KO over a past prime Kingsley Ikeke. The best opponent he ever faced was Miranda - who almost ripped his jaw off. Had that fight been ANYWHERE but Germany, Miranda would have won. The Germans were so biased in their judging/officiating it wasn't even funny...

This is SOO true. Of course he is protected. The last time he fought against gevor he was EXHAUSTED after a few rounds. It was that gevor was like a WELTERWEIGHT with NO POWER and NO PROPER DEFENCE otherwise AA would have lost that fight also.

He indeed is not bad, not bad AT ALL. But he is green, a green mouse. In the old days he would've had maybe 50 fights ahead of him! Now that could turn him into a monster! (or any other fighter nowadays)

[Vincent Gottschalk]

Elcock isn't in the same class as Abraham and I reckon Abraham should stop him , but best of luck to Elcock . At least he is willing to take risks .

Unlike one of Frank ******'s favourites Gary Lockett , whose team seem to have opted for a vacant WBO title challenge(whenever Pavlik drops the belt) instead .

Does it look like Pavlik might drop the WBO belt? I was so hoping too see Pavlik vs Lockett......lets get even for burning of The White House in 1812........ Hmmmmmm who would Lockett fight for vacant title Sebastian Zbik? What a epic battle that would be:bbb
I don't really care who Abraham fights in Dec:-( just as long as Abraham fights Pavlik some time in 2008:good

[MrStayman]

Yuck. Elcock is 33 - and when he was younger, he got KOd by journeymen. Terrible fight. Arthur should be stripped.

[Sloan299]

Well, Elcock is placed before Duddy on the boxrec ratings - you know, the guy your new messiah is fighting.

[Vincent Gottschalk]

Do you guys think that IBF will have a box off between Giovanni Lorenzo and Sebastian Sylvester to fight to be the number one contender for Abraham? Both men could give him a tough fight and would be worthy of a title shot.;)

[Lampley]

Well, in the all-important ESB Official Rankings, Elcock is not rated in the top 10.

[scorpy]

IBF middleweight ratings for October:

1 NOT RATED 2 NOT RATED
3 Sebastian Sylvester 4 Giovanni Lorenzo 5 Jermain Taylor 6 Ronald Wright 7 Sam Soliman 8 Amin Asikainen 9 Khoren Gevor 10 Fulgencio Zuniga 11 Javier Castillejo 12 Wayne Elcock 13 John Duddy 14 Gary Lockett 15 Mahir Oral

Who out of these would have been a better AND still realistic choice for a voluntary defense in Switzerland?

Yeah but let me ask you this... Does Abraham needs to fight a voluntary in Switzerland ? The answer is : NO. So we don't need bogus logic like that.

[Alcaldemb]

Yeah but let me ask you this... Does Abraham needs to fight a voluntary in Switzerland ? The answer is : NO. So we don't need bogus logic like that.

It is a keep busy fight. He doesn't have a mandatory and Pavlik is targeting Duddy so it isn't as if he can fight Pavlik. Taylor also has no desire to fight him. Abraham has wins over Eastman, Ikeke, Miranda (doesn't matter what people say he gutted out the win), and solid B level wins vs Demers, Gevor and Jantuah. The Abraham hate by some people here is out of control.

[brooklyn1550]

Not a bad fight. Not a great one, but decent...

[MrMagic]

Who's Elcock? could he be the Elchock?


didn't think so.. this is just another fight in the pocket for Abraham, he needs to fight quality opponents.

[MrStayman]

It is a keep busy fight. He doesn't have a mandatory and Pavlik is targeting Duddy so it isn't as if he can fight Pavlik. Taylor also has no desire to fight him. Abraham has wins over Eastman, Ikeke, Miranda (doesn't matter what people say he gutted out the win), and solid B level wins vs Demers, Gevor and Jantuah. The Abraham hate by some people here is out of control.Pavlik had a resume like that (one top contender middleweight, three top 20 middles) before he became champ. This is, what, Arthur's 7th title fight? Talk about holding it hostage! :patsch

[scorpy]

It is a keep busy fight. He doesn't have a mandatory and Pavlik is targeting Duddy so it isn't as if he can fight Pavlik. Taylor also has no desire to fight him. Abraham has wins over Eastman, Ikeke, Miranda (doesn't matter what people say he gutted out the win), and solid B level wins vs Demers, Gevor and Jantuah. The Abraham hate by some people here is out of control.

I don't hate Abraham, he's one of my favorites... but I'm not one to always cut some slack to a boxer because I like him. He says he's the best MW, he said he wanted to come to the USA to fight and we get this bogus fight ? Please...

[Alcaldemb]

I don't hate Abraham, he's one of my favorites... but I'm not one to always cut some slack to a boxer because I like him. He says he's the best MW, he said he wanted to come to the USA to fight and we get this bogus fight ? Please...

Pavlik's people signed a fight with Duddy, they had been talking about that immediately after Pavlik beat Taylor. Simply put the fight wasn't going to be made. It might be made if both Abraham and Pavlik win their next fights.

[yogster740]

pathetic

[Betty Swollocks]

Elcock is no good, he got knocked out cold inside a round by a non-punching journeyman Scotsman whose name evades me.

[Vincent Gottschalk]

Well, Elcock is placed before Duddy on the boxrec ratings - you know, the guy your new messiah is fighting.

Now:nono Now :nono Are Messiah Kelly The Ghost Pavlik fought in 2007

# 1 Jose Luis Zertuche
# 2 Edison Miranda
# 3 Jermain Taylor
:good

In 2007 Athur Abraham will have fought

# 1 Sebastian Demers
# 2 Khoren Gevor
# 3 Wayne Elcock
:-(

While Gevor is a good top ten fighter Elcock and Demers are not even top 20. At this point Pavlik is leaving Abraham is the dust in terms of opponents.:deal
P.S. Duddy vs Pavlik is much MUCh better fight then Abraham vs Elcock:tong

[MrStayman]

Look, if Pavlik keeps fighting Duddys for his next 6 fights, then there is no way American boxing fans will forgive him. We certainly weren't lenient with Taylor. Why does Abraham get slack from Germans for going up against top 20 and 40 fighters for his 7 title bouts?

Sturm is even worse, and yet he somehow keeps a fanbase. Bash Americans all you want, but at least we want our top fighters to go against top opposition. Euros, don't come crying to us when we hammer people like Calzaghe for having subpar resumes. You have only yourselves to blame for supporting them.

[Alcaldemb]

Look, if Pavlik keeps fighting Duddys for his next 6 fights, then there is no way American boxing fans will forgive him. We certainly weren't lenient with Taylor. Why does Abraham get slack from Germans for going up against top 20 and 40 fighters for his 7 title bouts?

Sturm is even worse, and yet he somehow keeps a fanbase. Bash Americans all you want, but at least we want our top fighters to go against top opposition.

Because Taylor never entertained the idea of fighting him, never even mentioned him. Sturm has avoided fighting him, and Pavlik just signed to fight Duddy so that isn't an option. Also when Miranda and him could have rematched it was after Edison got destroyed by Kelly.

[Vincent Gottschalk]

Why Oh Why Is Duddy being put down as a opponent for Pavlik:| Duddy is a good all out action slugger he and Pavlk will be a WAR:bbb

[MrStayman]

Because Taylor never entertained the idea of fighting him, never even mentioned him. Sturm has avoided fighting him, and Pavlik just signed to fight Duddy so that isn't an option. Also when Miranda and him could have rematched it was after Edison got destroyed by Kelly.I haven't seen Abraham express any interest in going after Taylor, Pavlik, Bernard, or even Winky. Maybe he went after Sturm - I don't know. If it is true that everyone is ducking Abraham (which I don't buy), then he can always move up to super middle. Pavlik has said explicitly that he wants to fight Abraham though. We'll see Abraham's true colors in the next year.

[bigeddie27]

abraham is not a champ IMO, that belt is worthless. I think his jaw injury moreso than his POS promoter is whats causing him to fight nobodies. Getting broke in two spots is not something that is easily recoverable from. And by recovery, I mean mentally.

[Big Ears]

Does it look like Pavlik might drop the WBO belt? I was so hoping too see Pavlik vs Lockett......lets get even for burning of The White House in 1812........ Hmmmmmm who would Lockett fight for vacant title Sebastian Zbik? What a epic battle that would be:bbb
I don't really care who Abraham fights in Dec:-( just as long as Abraham fights Pavlik some time in 2008:good

Pavlik won't bother himself with a fight against Lockett and would discard the belt if mandated to fight him . I don't reckon ****** would let Lockett face Pavlik anyway .

It looks at the moment that a fight for the vacant title would be between Lockett and Zbik but if ****** is determined enough he could get someone else(easier) .

[T.C.W]

Strum would be nice.

[RichDam]

Elcock is no good, he got knocked out cold inside a round by a non-punching journeyman Scotsman whose name evades me.

Laurence Murphy knocked him out, and he is in fact a big puncher.

Don't judge Wayne on that showing as he is actually not a bad fighter. He has got decent wins against Anthony Farnell and Howard Eastman.

[Odo]

I don´t know why he wastes his time with facing only bums and 2nd-raters,, he´s really talented, he reminds me on Erdei, so to speak the Sauerland- Erdei...

You are unfairly harsh on Abraham,Luigi!

Abraham has already faced lots of known names in his short pro career.He is no Zsolt Erdei.
And by the way apart from Taylor Kelly Pavlik cant hold a candle to Abraham in terms of known and defeated skalps.
I,too,would prefer Abraham take on a better known opponent.Nobody is really interested in watching Abraham vs Demers,or vs Elcock.
Anyway! As long as Abraham continues fighting guys like Demers I dont mind him taking an easy fight from time to time.

[Fat Tony]

I haven't seen Abraham express any interest in going after Taylor, Pavlik, Bernard, or even Winky. Maybe he went after Sturm - I don't know. If it is true that everyone is ducking Abraham (which I don't buy), then he can always move up to super middle. Pavlik has said explicitly that he wants to fight Abraham though. We'll see Abraham's true colors in the next year.

Abraham expressed interest in facing Taylor before Taylor-Pavlik took place.
His promoter said (I don't know if it's the truth) that he planned to stage a Abraham fight in the US this year but HBO's budget is busted (same reason why Klitschko isn't fighting this year anymore).

And to those "experts" who call Abraham a "joke": watch a full fight of him, not just the Miranda highlight clips, or shut up. I don't think he'd beat Pavlik (he'd have better chances against Taylor) but he's leagues above Duddy or Mora.

[Luigi1985]

You are unfairly harsh on Abraham,Luigi!

Abraham has already faced lots of known names in his short pro career.He is no Zsolt Erdei.
And by the way apart from Taylor Kelly Pavlik cant hold a candle to Abraham in terms of known and defeated skalps.
I,too,would prefer Abraham take on a better known opponent.Nobody is really interested in watching Abraham vs Demers,or vs Elcock.
Anyway! As long as Abraham continues fighting guys like Demers I dont mind him taking an easy fight from time to time.



No, I´m not harsh on him, it´s the opposite, I like him and I think he´s a very good and talented fighter, but with fights against the likes of Demers, Elcock, etc. he really wastes his time. Why does his managment, Sauerland, not plan a good and competive fight, for example a rematch against Miranda, or an unification-bout against Sturm, or an unbeaten good fighter like Lorenzo, Duddy, etc., you get what I mean now?

[VHB]

I always laugh when I look at that IBF rank list. Sylvester could easily become the next mandatory, but he can´t. He´d die in the fight. This fight was offered to Asikainen but for now he rather takes on Sly again.

[Tom_Tocca]

I always laugh when I look at that IBF rank list. Sylvester could easily become the next mandatory, but he can´t. He´d die in the fight.

He can't because both are with the same promotional outlet and Sylvester would earn more if he fights Sturm...

Universum must realise that the best match up for Sturm would be fighting Sylvester - at least from a monetary standpoint...if you compare Griffin to Sylvester you would realise that both are about the same class but that Sturm would earn more money vs. his compatriot.

[MrStayman]

Abraham expressed interest in facing Taylor before Taylor-Pavlik took place.
His promoter said (I don't know if it's the truth) that he planned to stage a Abraham fight in the US this year but HBO's budget is busted (same reason why Klitschko isn't fighting this year anymore).

And to those "experts" who call Abraham a "joke": watch a full fight of him, not just the Miranda highlight clips, or shut up. I don't think he'd beat Pavlik (he'd have better chances against Taylor) but he's leagues above Duddy or Mora.He's not a joke. It's just that he's long overdue for a big fight. Abraham would give Pavlik the most trouble out of any MW. I think the fight would go as follows:
Pavlik wins round one handily. The next few rounds Abraham edges out by blocking most of Pavliks shots and flurrying back himself. Pavlik continues relentlessly, and Abraham starts to noticeably wear down in round 8. Pavlik gets an 11th round TKO while slightly behind on the score cards.

Pavlik is a freak in that he pummels you with HARD shots for the entire fight and doesn't really take a rest. I can't think of another middleweight in history (maybe hagler?) who pressured opponents like Pavlik does. Abraham has a mediocre at best workrate, and relies a LOT on his turtle shell defense. He'll block a lot of Pavlik's shots, but enough will get through to wear Abraham down and finally make him quit. On the other hand, Abraham can exploit Pavlik's vulnerability to flurries and low connect rate against cover-em-up defenses.

I see at as another Pavlik-McKart, except Abraham has a bit more stamina than McKart had, and is a lot more powerful.

[Fat Tony]

He's not a joke. It's just that he's long overdue for a big fight. Abraham would give Pavlik the most trouble out of any MW. I think the fight would go as follows:
Pavlik wins round one handily. The next few rounds Abraham edges out by blocking most of Pavliks shots and flurrying back himself. Pavlik continues relentlessly, and Abraham starts to noticeably wear down in round 8. Pavlik gets an 11th round TKO while slightly behind on the score cards.

Pavlik is a freak in that he pummels you with HARD shots for the entire fight and doesn't really take a rest. I can't think of another middleweight in history (maybe hagler?) who pressured opponents like Pavlik does. Abraham has a mediocre at best workrate, and relies a LOT on his turtle shell defense. He'll block a lot of Pavlik's shots, but enough will get through to wear Abraham down and finally make him quit. On the other hand, Abraham can exploit Pavlik's vulnerability to flurries and low connect rate against cover-em-up defenses.

I see at as another Pavlik-McKart, except Abraham has a bit more stamina than McKart had, and is a lot more powerful.

Excellent post. :good I agree with almost everything you wrote. (I don't think Abraham would quit.)

I give Abraham a 30-35% chance of beating Pavlik. A win on points is nearly impossible, because of Pavlik's MUCH higher workrate.

Abraham's "turtle shell defense" works against small opponents like Gevor but I doubt it will work against a big, strong guy who throws many hard punches.