Jeffries or Fitzsimmons?

[robert ungurean]

Who was the better fighter at there best and why.

[guilalah]

As a heavyweight, Jeffries.

P4P, Fitzsimmons


Winning against Corbett, Tom Sharkey, while giving away pounds, is very impressive. Jeffries though was great, too.

[McGrain]

You got to have your favourites, right? The trick is not to show bias to any of your favourites, if you can manage it. But I really like Jeffries. I like what I see of him, and the more I learn about him, the more I like about him, style wise, gifts wise, talent wise. Plain old balls wise.

This p4p thing - sometimes I think people take it to far. For me, it was never about relative power or relative strength or anything like that. It was a way of comparing fighters talents without them actually fighting, and without analysing, as best you can, a potential fight. About the fighters not the fights, if you like.

It sounds like Fitz was a phenominum - a kind of Tyson for his day, just extremely powerful - and durable with it.

But Jeffries is the better fighter. In my opinion he would be as succesful fighting MMA this weekend in Japan as he would be fighting bare knuckle in England in the 1600's.

He'd certianly be world heavyweight champ were he fighting today.

[robert ungurean]

Interesting so far....please keep em coming!

[apollack]

As a heavyweight, Jeffries.

P4P, Fitzsimmons


Winning against Corbett, Tom Sharkey, while giving away pounds, is very impressive. Jeffries though was great, too.

I completely agree. Pound for pound Fitz was better. But as a HEAVYWEIGHT, a prime Jeff was too big and strong to be defeated by Bob, who looked like a midget next to him. That said, if Bob had taken Jeff on in 1897, when he was fight sharp, who knows....

[robert ungurean]

By the way I meant to say Jeffries OR Fitzsimmons.
My appologies.

[Dempsey1238]

Fitz was the Surger Ray Robinson of his time. Pound for pound champ. We all know the REAL reason they came out with pound for pound. Forget Surger Ray. Fitz was the real deal. He held 3 weight titles.

[rekcutnevets]

I agree with guilalah and Dempsey 1238.

[Bad_Intentions]

jeffries as heavyweight was a monster.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Bad_Intentions]

Fitz was the Surger Ray Robinson of his time. Pound for pound champ. We all know the REAL reason they came out with pound for pound. Forget Surger Ray. Fitz was the real deal. He held 3 weight titles.yep, fitzsimmons is the original pound for pound king. ray robinson is the 2nd greatest p4p boxer of all times. and then comes the rest.

[janitor]

At the risk of rehashing what has been said before, Jeffries was the greater heavyweight while Fitz was the pound for pound king of his era.

Even as a heavyweight there were area's where Fitzsimmons exceled Jeffries. He was a better finisher for example.

I think Fitzsimmons still deserves consideration for a place among the top 20 heavyweights of all time today.

[Sam Dixon]

yep, fitzsimmons is the original pound for pound king. ray robinson is the 2nd greatest p4p boxer of all times. and then comes the rest.

Their could have very well been someone earlier (or was used to describe him earlier), but Fitzsimmons is the earliest fighter I've personally yet seen where they had that exact "pound for pound" term attached to a fighter's name in print, which, if memory serves, was written about him sometime in early 1918.

But like I said, there could very well have been someone earlier referenced to in such a manner, as the term itself was spoken of in other walks of life going back at least a couple of generations previous to that 1918 reference to Fitz.

[Holmes' Jab]

You got to have your favourites, right? The trick is not to show bias to any of your favourites, if you can manage it. But I really like Jeffries. I like what I see of him, and the more I learn about him, the more I like about him, style wise, gifts wise, talent wise. Plain old balls wise.

This p4p thing - sometimes I think people take it to far. For me, it was never about relative power or relative strength or anything like that. It was a way of comparing fighters talents without them actually fighting, and without analysing, as best you can, a potential fight. About the fighters not the fights, if you like.

It sounds like Fitz was a phenominum - a kind of Tyson for his day, just extremely powerful - and durable with it.

But Jeffries is the better fighter. In my opinion he would be as succesful fighting MMA this weekend in Japan as he would be fighting bare knuckle in England in the 1600's.

He'd certianly be world heavyweight champ were he fighting today.

A spot on analysis as ever. Congrats :good

[Dempsey1238]

yep, fitzsimmons is the original pound for pound king. ray robinson is the 2nd greatest p4p boxer of all times. and then comes the rest.

I put Armstrong, Ross, Berg, Canzi and a few others as pound for pound kings before Robinson. (Before Jr titles) These guys were able to hold 3 weight title belts. Robinson had 2. Robinson try for the lightheayvweight of couse and faild. But we cant give Robinson points for a failed effort.

[Bad_Intentions]

I put Armstrong, Ross, Berg, Canzi and a few others as pound for pound kings before Robinson. (Before Jr titles) These guys were able to hold 3 weight title belts. Robinson had 2. Robinson try for the lightheayvweight of couse and faild. But we cant give Robinson points for a failed effort.yea, he had joey maxim beat, but the heat was too much and almost passed out. robinson said in a interview years after he retired that if he won that fight (light heavyweight) theirs no chance that he would win or challenge the heavyweight title.

[McGrain]

yea, he had joey maxim beat, but the heat was too much and almost passed out. robinson said in a interview years after he retired that if he won that fight (light heavyweight) theirs no chance that he would win or challenge the heavyweight title.


Did you ever hear the story about Sugar throwing that fight? Probably a story exsists for many massive pre70's, curious none the less.

I suppose it depends upon which account you beleive, post fight, regarding whether or not it is even possible.

[Bad_Intentions]

Did you ever hear the story about Sugar throwing that fight? Probably a story exsists for many massive pre70's, curious none the less.

I suppose it depends upon which account you beleive, post fight, regarding whether or not it is even possible.:huh:huh where did you read that from?

[McGrain]

:huh:huh where did you read that from?

Ah, get ready to be annoyed.

It was in one of the Charley Burley books. But I can't remember which one.


There's more.

Story goes - and it is just a story i think - that Ray doublecrossed some Harlem noteables in the Maxim fight. He later threw a couple - big fights - to re-ingratiate himself with said notables.

Anyway, probably not - but Sugar was a businees fighter. Probably just carried guys though.

[Bad_Intentions]

jake lamotta must know the truth.

[McGrain]

jake lamotta must know the truth.


Very well said.

[Bad_Intentions]

Very well said.well, they were really closed-friends:good

[Dempsey1238]

yea, he had joey maxim beat, but the heat was too much and almost passed out. robinson said in a interview years after he retired that if he won that fight (light heavyweight) theirs no chance that he would win or challenge the heavyweight title.

Well He is not getting points for failing to left the title. Maxim also was not fighting the same way either, less agressive than he normal does(See his fights with Moore and others) It seems he was content with letting the heat do his work in that fight. condtions and all that.
Besides, IF Robinson did win the fight, win or lose he was not going to be faceing Rocky Marciano anyway. Not with him tearing up the divsion in the fashion the Rock was doing any way. Not many middleweights would have wanted a fight with Marciano. Not with the way the Rock hit. Robinson made a joke, I think it was the around the time of one of the Olson fights, were the promoter was saying to Robinson, if you beat Olson, I could match you up with Marciano. Which Robinson replie, how about I beat Olson and HE fights Marciano. :lol: Unlike todays posters ete. Robinson and crew knew the Rock was the real deal and not the wimp they like to protray.