Ike Ibeabuchi v.s Rocky Marciano

[Bad_Intentions]

Marciano UD

[Bad_Intentions]

Are you trolling?No.

[Dostoevsky]

Ike Ibeabuchi TKO 3

Ike is just too big,fast,strong,heavy.

everything Marciano has, Ike has, and is better.
I know the old timers who defend the champions of the past will go ape shit at that but i just don't see how he could possibly beat someone of Ikes skill level and size.

[thunder06]

Marciano KO13.

[Boilermaker]

This is an excellent fight. Very, very similar to the Tua fight. But i tend to think Rocky has a little better work rate than Tua and finishes the fight a little stronger. Still, I say Rocky wins a disputed and close but fair decision.

[janitor]

This would be a classic and make no mistake, there is a verry real chance of Ibeabuchi taking it.

I tend to think however that Marciano is a little more refined than Tua and probably edges it where Tua failed.

[Marciano Frazier]

Well, Tua was essentially a Marciano clone, heavier but with inferior skill, conditioning, workrate, and two-handed power. Tua very arguably beat Ibeabuchi(all of the commentators and many fans had Tua winning that fight). I imagine that Marciano takes a close, hard-fought decision in a 12-rounder, possbly a late stoppage in a 15-rounder depending on how good Ibeabuchi's 15-round stamina was.

[ChrisPontius]

Another difference between Tua and Marciano is that Marciano was a lot less predictable. Marciano came off with weird shots leaning from strange angles whereas Tua was more a text book left hooker with a relatively weak right.

[Marciano Frazier]

Another difference between Tua and Marciano is that Marciano was a lot less predictable. Marciano came off with weird shots leaning from strange angles whereas Tua was more a text book left hooker with a relatively weak right. Yes, exactly. With Tua, you can always expect a guy who comes more or less straight in and throws a conventional left hook as a knockout punch. With Marciano, there are knockout punches coming from both hands with different types of shots and from all angles all night long.

[brooklyn1550]

Very good fight in which I think Marciano would win by unanimous decision

[Bummy Davis]

Another difference between Tua and Marciano is that Marciano was a lot less predictable. Marciano came off with weird shots leaning from strange angles whereas Tua was more a text book left hooker with a relatively weak right.


Exactly Marciano would get inside of a fighters timing with his weird angles and ability to fire off a knock out punch with a short powerfull snap of 1000lbs of pressure, A lot of people gave Tua the nod with IKE, I like Marciano in this by a UD or a late KO...Its hard to judge IKE because we saw little of him but I give him the best of the unknown senario

[RockyJim]

The Rocks awkwardness works well in this fight...as it did in all of his 49 victories
Marciano by KO......

[omega dega Doom]

oh damn this will be a no win thread! marciano never fought anyody worth a damn at least n their prime! he wouldn't even be considered a heavyweight nowadays him weighing in at 185-188 he would be just a cruiserweight at best! Ike would KO him within 1-2 rounds! sorry old timers but the truth is going to hurt on this one!:good

[MachineGunMitch]

WTF,Ike isnt even in the same league

[rekcutnevets]

Ike is not in terms of greatness. He would be in this fight, however.

Ike is much bigger, and it would show in more ways than appearance.

If Marciano were just a little larger, I would pick him by something.

I think that Marciano may be able to hit as hard as Ike, maybe even have more penetration effect to his punches, he just isn't as physically strong as Ibeabuchi.

I feel Ibeabuchi's work rate would be the difference. I started to say Ike by narrow decision, but this may not go the distance. Ike throw a lot of punches, and hits very hard. Marciano would get hit a lot. Ike by stoppage. Marciano's face would not allow the officials to let the fight run its full course. People would be very upset, because this would be a war and Marciano would be very much in the fight.

[rekcutnevets]

I know what you mean, Homicidal Hank. Some people think he was the greatest ever, no matter what.

They may realize that he may have been the toughest fighter ever, and was one hell of a puncher for his size. Then they think that would carry him past every heavyweight ever. They seem oblivious to look at the fighters Rocky defeated in his most notable wins. They don't seem to look at the fact that Walcott was the oldest man to win the title at the time of Walcott's crowning. He was 37. A record that stood for around 40 years. They don't pay attention to the blown up light heavyweight, Ezzard Charles, being past his prime. They don't notice that Moore, the blown up light heavyweight, was in his 40's. They look at his 49-0 record, and forget he only made 6 title defenses.

[Dempsey1238]

You guys are making him out to be a wimp. Even going so far as to have the Rock lose to the likes of Ike(Over rated imo) Patterson, Bryd, Ruiz, and L Spinks. And a few others. I belive Rocky ranks confirm in the top ten. Sure Walcott or Moore may have been 38 years old in there title fights, but they were still GREAT fighters at the time,Walcott haveing just ko and outpointed Charles, and Moores run though the heavyweight gallent to get to Marciano. Charles was a robbed vs Johnson imo, and Cockell was a test for that nose.

I dont think Rocky could beat say Foreman, but base on styles he has a shot in upsetting Ali.

[rekcutnevets]

Demsey1238, Marciano make #5 on my list all time. That is well inside the my 10. You might even say it puts him in my top 5.

This is a head to head match up. Not who was better all time.

[rekcutnevets]

All I want to know is who this godero person is, and how godero edited my post.

[Dempsey1238]

I belive Marciano fairs well in hand to hand. Sure Foreman and Liston has the best chance. But he outsmarm most of the best boxers like Holmes or Tunney IMO, or have a close brawl with Fraizer or Dempsey which could go either way imo. Most of this is guess work, we never know for SURE unless we have a time machine, Louis was the best of his era and no one outside of a few posters complains about head to head with him. But in regards to Marciano its other matter.

[rekcutnevets]

Demsey1238, I respect your opinion about Marciano. He never lost.

A lot of posters are picking him in this thread. I would hardly call it favored onesided for Ike.

Louis had the most complete offense of any heavyweight, and he has some nice stats to put with his offense. I rank him 2nd all time. I don't complain when people pick against him in head to heads.

Marciano had more stylistic flaws than some of the people he is held in the same regard as. That is why some pick against him. The same rings true for George Foreman. Marciano and Foreman are great in spite of their flaws, but you can still pick against them in head to head match ups. It's only opinions.

[Dempsey1238]

Foreman did have a lot of flaws, but most of these vs fights with Foreman mostly ends up ko 3 or 4 vs Louis or Holmes ete.

[Senya13]

Ibeabuchi by slaughter. Marciano has zero chance whatsoever. And it will be finished in the first three rounds.

[janitor]

What makes Louis' offense more complete than Liston's or Foreman's?

If you have to ask what makes Louis's offense more complete than Foreman's then you would do better to follow a diferent sport.

[janitor]

I know what you mean, Homicidal Hank. Some people think he was the greatest ever, no matter what.


Marciano's verry vocal critics on this forum are always bemoaning his legions of delusional fans who consider him the greatest ever and cannot envisage him loosing.

How many people on this forum do actualy have him in the No1 spot on their top heavyweight's list?

How many of his delusional fans pick him over Foreman in a fantasy match up?

If the answer to these question's is none or nearly none then it suggests that the problem lies with the anti Marciano faction.

[Bummy Davis]

Ike really never fought anyone but the (Vlad Klitschko Dominated Byrd) and a disputed decision over the( Byrd dominated Tua,) Tua was Slow,Fat, but IMO he beat IKE and many others felt the same, So kiddies Clubber Lang and IVAN Drago may have been ATG's in your minds because of the way they looked....IKE was not in the ATG class, not even a solid serious contender for long and like I said above WHO did he beat, we are letting are imaginations get carried away, Lennox Lewis may have KO'd him in the same manner he took out Grant, what if Grant went to prison before that fight would you be saying the same thing. Ring worth is proven in the Ring not in the imagination of the fans like wrestling...IKE was a contender for a short while and never proved he could do more

[Ramon Rojo]

This is a no brainer

Ibeabuchi by KO1

[Marciano Frazier]

Marciano's verry vocal critics on this forum are always bemoaning his legions of delusional fans who consider him the greatest ever and cannot envisage him loosing.

How many people on this forum do actualy have him in the No1 spot on their top heavyweight's list?

How many of his delusional fans pick him over Foreman in a fantasy match up?

If the answer to these question's is none or nearly none then it suggests that the problem lies with the anti Marciano faction. B-I-N-G-O. It is absolutely not true that Marciano's supporters on this forum think of him as superhuman or invincible and refuse to accept that he could lose; in fact, nearly of the posters who these guys are debating with when they pull the "you're-a-biased-hero-worshipper-who-views-his-man-as-unbeatable" card only have Marciano in the 3-5 range in their rankings and would pick at least a couple other champions to beat him. It isn't as though we're offended by the idea that he could lose- more like they're offended by the idea that he could win.

[unitas]

IKE by stoppage. on cuts. ike hit hard enough to produce em, and had the chin to hold of marcianos rallies.

[joe33]

This is a no brainer

Ibeabuchi by KO1

You dicking around????,apart from one and maybe two fights,what else did ike do?,he looked decent,and may have become a legend,but its impossable to tell really,the rock with a late KO.

[Bad_Intentions]

IKE by stoppage. on cuts. ike hit hard enough to produce em, and had the chin to hold of marcianos rallies.is that so...

[Bummy Davis]

Who was IKe, he won a disputed decision over Tua and KO'd a Vlad dominated Byrd, How do we know Lewis wouldn't have Ko'd him as fast as he did Grant and Golota, IKe had a mental weakness and it was exposed and he would have showed it in the ring as well, he was a could have been,possibly

[Mendoza]

Ike really never fought anyone but the (Vlad Klitschko Dominated Byrd) and a disputed decision over the( Byrd dominated Tua,) Tua was Slow,Fat, but IMO he beat IKE and many others felt the same, So kiddies Clubber Lang and IVAN Drago may have been ATG's in your minds because of the way they looked....IKE was not in the ATG class, not even a solid serious contender for long and like I said above WHO did he beat, we are letting are imaginations get carried away, Lennox Lewis may have KO'd him in the same manner he took out Grant, what if Grant went to prison before that fight would you be saying the same thing. Ring worth is proven in the Ring not in the imagination of the fans like wrestling...IKE was a contender for a short while and never proved he could do more

Tua vs Ibeabuchi was a war. Tua was at his idea weight, and was neither fat nor slow in this fight. If you have not seen the match, I highly recommend watching it. While Ike was but a contender for a short while, he proved he could go toe to toe with a banger like Tua, and track down a fast boxer with good defense in Byrd. Ibeabuchi's KO blow over Byrd was one of the hardest shots I've seen. So Ibeabuchi's chin, stamina, power, were proven on the world class levels. Ibeabuchi had good skills as well. All great champions were at the point that Ibeabuchi was prior to getting their title shots, so it’s up to personal interpretation whether Ibeabuchi ascend to the rank of champion or not. I tend to believe he would have been a champion without his outside the ring troubles.

In a potential match up between the two, Ibebuchi would seem to have the advantage on paper. Rocky could not hope to stop Ibeabuchi as easily as he did with his other opponents, nor could he hope Ibeabuchi tiring late in the match. To pick a winner here would cost me a vowel in my last name, and I'll leave it at that.

[Bummy Davis]

Lewis dominated Tua,Byrd totally outboxed him, he drew with Rahman in there last fight. Tua is a good fighter but limited, he won disputed decisions over Jeff Wooden and Cisse Saliff. Tua's weight was good for the Ike fight and YES, I watched it,very entertaining but I did not see any all time greats in the ring that night, Tua had a chance vs Lewis but Lewis also had a chance of doing the same thing he did to Grant and Golota

[joe the great]

Marciano probably on points.

[PowerPuncher]

IMPORTANT POINT

Before the fight starts give Marciano the steroids Ibeauchis taking for 12months and lots of protein and supplements.

It would still be a close 1 though Ike was a beast

[Club Fighter]

oh damn this will be a no win thread! marciano never fought anyody worth a damn at least n their prime! he wouldn't even be considered a heavyweight nowadays him weighing in at 185-188 he would be just a cruiserweight at best! Ike would KO him within 1-2 rounds! sorry old timers but the truth is going to hurt on this one!:good

Rarely do I take a newb's opinion with little more than a grain of salt but this dude's on point. Well said. :good

[unitas]

is that so...

yes:hi:

[Senya13]

We all saw Marciano throwing 100 punches in every round of every fight, without exception. Such as the 1st Walcott fight. Or first round of Moore fight. There are of course, more examples, but just picking the most obvious ones, where he was throwing them non-stop. But then the films of the fights were re-edited by Marciano's haters and Rocky was replaced with his clone in them, who, on purpose, didn't throw that many punches.

[Ramon Rojo]

We all saw Marciano throwing 100 punches in every round of every fight, without exception. Such as the 1st Walcott fight. Or first round of Moore fight. There are of course, more examples, but just picking the most obvious ones, where he was throwing them non-stop. But then the films of the fights were re-edited by Marciano's haters and Rocky was replaced with his clone in them, who, on purpose, didn't throw that many punches.
:lol:

I like your irony.

[dmt]

Marciano is arguably the most overrated fighter ever. I am happy to see so many people picking Ibeabuchi to win this. It means that the Rocky myth is not carrying the same power it used to. Maybe we won't have to see his name on top ten lists in the future.His name will always appear of top 10 lists as would Dempsey's and Louis's. Just because you rate rubbish heavyweights like Spinks ahead of them does not mean everybody else does. 99 percent of this forum had these three with in their top 20 and majority in the top 10. They are not wrong, you are.

[BOGART]

I'd rate Marciano as one the top 5 heavyweights of all-time. Undefeated and beat most of the top contenders of his time, on a good day I could be tempted to put him #3 only behind Ali and Louis. However, when it comes to head to head match-ups I think Marciano gets very overrated. Regardless of what legends are out there about Marciano, the guy I see on film just doesn't overly impress me like he does some people. Sure he has his strengths, but people tend to overexaggerate them. He might be the most flawed all-time great heavyweight as well. From his era and earlier he does well in head to head bout. He beats some of the greats and loses to others. Post 1960 I really think Marciano doesn't fare well amongst the elite heavies. And this is coming from a guy who neither hates or loves Marciano. I just take him as he was and don't try to downgrade what he was or put him on a pedistal either.

As far as a match between Ike and Marciano, I'd take Ike big time in this one. Sure he is totally unproven with only the two big fights to his credit. However, the Ike I see in those two fights beats any Marciano I have seen on film. And yes it has a lot to do with size in this fight. Ike is just way to big of a man for Marciano. Its like putting Marciano in the ring with a jr middleweight. Sometimes size matters and it would in this case. Ike by stoppage, probably in the last third of the fight.

[janitor]

Marciano is arguably the most overrated fighter ever. I am happy to see so many people picking Ibeabuchi to win this. It means that the Rocky myth is not carrying the same power it used to. Maybe we won't have to see his name on top ten lists in the future.

Don't hold your breath.

[janitor]

We all saw Marciano throwing 100 punches in every round of every fight, without exception.

He did average a good 80 per round in the first Charles fight. Feel free to count them.

[joe33]

Haha HH is at it again,just think mate when your long dead and forgotten like most of us on this board,the roclk will be forever remembered as a true sporting icon and legend,a guy who was a great great fighting machine,and who was also a nice and humble guy,ive never heard one person from back then say a bad word about him outside the ring,would have loved to seen him fight live.So Haters like HH,just think that in another 50 100 200 years time,he will still be on the record books as the only undefeated HW,whos record may never be beat,stick that in your pipe and smoke it bro,or go and worship your spinks posters,i bet you do that shit in the nude to,bet it gives you a right hard on hahahahahahahaha.......................

[Dempsey1238]

I dont think the Earth has 200 years lol. By that time Marciano WILL beforgoting. So will Ali or George Washington.

[joe33]

I dont think the Earth has 200 years lol. By that time Marciano WILL beforgoting. So will Ali or George Washington.

You get the point though mate,HH is just a dick who will thank god be forgotten about soon,the rocks record will last till the end of time,i doubt any HW for ages will get close to it.

[Senya13]

He did average a good 80 per round in the first Charles fight. Feel free to count them.
Sedreck Fields vs Shannon Briggs
Fields averaged 89 punches per round.

Hasim Rahman vs David Tua I.
Rahman averaged 84 punches per round.

Ike Ibeabuchi vs David Tua
Ibeabuchi averaged 81 punches per round.

James Toney vs Vassily Jirov (taking cruiserweights, as Marciano fought as a cruiser too)
Jirov averaged 86 punches per round against Toney's 81 punches per round.

So what the big deal about Marciano?

[Bummy Davis]

His name will always appear of top 10 lists as would Dempsey's and Louis's. Just because you rate rubbish heavyweights like Spinks ahead of them does not mean everybody else does. 99 percent of this forum had these three with in their top 20 and majority in the top 10. They are not wrong, you are.


:good :good :good good post, they really dont beleive what they say, could they be so biased or Dumb, Yes they have an agenda

[Dempsey1238]

He is not white, he is Italian.

[Bummy Davis]

He's white.


AH very transparent remark and I guess because he is a White Italian it would be impossible for him to go through a whole career beating the best white and Black fighters fighting the best and staying unbeaten...by the way he was a dominant champion:smoke

[janitor]

He's white.

This dose seem to be the crux of the problem.

Many people resent the idea of an undefeated white champion who beat the best black contenders of the era and has an unshakeable claim to be ranked among the heavyweight elite.

A lot of Marciano haters are no better than the human detritus who hounded Jack Johnson because they could not acept the idea of a black man holding the heavyweight title.

Same cloth diferent era.

[janitor]

Sedreck Fields vs Shannon Briggs
Fields averaged 89 punches per round.

Hasim Rahman vs David Tua I.
Rahman averaged 84 punches per round.

Ike Ibeabuchi vs David Tua
Ibeabuchi averaged 81 punches per round.

James Toney vs Vassily Jirov (taking cruiserweights, as Marciano fought as a cruiser too)
Jirov averaged 86 punches per round against Toney's 81 punches per round.

So what the big deal about Marciano?

Firstly these are quite exceptional outputs by the standard of the heavyweight division and all are over twelve rounds. Indeed one is the all time record for a twelve rouund fight which Marciano tied over fifteen.

Secondly some of these outputs were achieved by winging arm punches the entire fight. Marcfian actualy achieved similar outputs while putting his body into many of the shots.

[Bummy Davis]

This dose seem to be the crux of the problem.

Many people resent the idea of an undefeated white champion who beat the best black contenders of the era and has an unshakeable claim to be ranked among the heavyweight elite.

A lot of Marciano haters are no better than the human detritus who hounded Jack Johnson because they could not acept the idea of a black man holding the heavyweight title.

Same cloth diferent era.


:good I think that it is evident, and transparent, why else so much hate, same cloth, different view

[captherp]

This dose seem to be the crux of the problem.

Many people resent the idea of an undefeated white champion who beat the best black contenders of the era and has an unshakeable claim to be ranked among the heavyweight elite.

A lot of Marciano haters are no better than the human detritus who hounded Jack Johnson because they could not acept the idea of a black man holding the heavyweight title.

Same cloth diferent era.

Boy, are YOU on the mark. Whoever that guy is picking Ibeabuchi in ONE ROUND over Marciano, come on!

One Suzie Q from Marciano, Ike on his butt for the count. I'll be charitable and give it about nine rounds.

[Muchmoore]

Ike troubles him but Marciano stops him late.

[janitor]

If we held a fantasy match between Rocky Marciano and Postman Pat then the usual suspects would pipe up that Postman Pat was too big and skilled for Marciano.

[joe33]

If we held a fantasy match between Rocky Marciano and Postman Pat then the usual suspects would pipe up that Postman Pat was too big and skilled for Marciano.

LOL thats damn true mate,id take the rock though to take postman pats head of in the 1st round,then stamp the fuck on his black and white cat.

[janitor]

LOL thats damn true mate,id take the rock though to take postman pats head of in the 1st round,then stamp the fuck on his black and white cat.

This is also how I see the fight unfolding.

Marciano would need a good cut man though because that black and white cat has sharp claws.