Jermain's latest "Bad Decision" - an immediate Pavlik rematch - could ruin his career

[paulfv]

Ok, I want to make sure this point is 100% crystal clear:

Jermain Taylor will never, ever beat Kelly Pavlik in the professional ranks.

Their first fight is as competitive as Taylor will ever be with Kelly Pavlik. Every time these two fighters meet in the pros, Pavlik will win either by KO or TKO. No decisions, just knockouts.

It doesn't matter who's more 'skilled,' who's faster, who is more athletic, or anything else. This isn't the NFL combine, it's a prizefight.

And in that arena, Pavlik will always prevail against Taylor, head-to-head.

Why do I say this? Let's take a look at the 2 main reasons:

1. Kelly Pavlik -- as many times as he fights Taylor in the future -- will never again make the mistake of dropping his hands in an attempt to 'clown' Jermain Taylor.

If Pavlik doen't do this hot-dog act, he's never hurt and never has to get off of the deck. But for this tactical blunder, Taylor could not, and did not, hurt Pavlik. Pavlik does not -- and has no reason to -- fear Taylor's power. Unless Pavlik allows himself to be struck 3 times with his hands down again, he will never be in trouble against Taylor in any future rounds the two fight, barring a miracle by Taylor.

The Taylor fans, understandably, want to point to round 2 as some incredibly meaningful moment. And it was. But not in the way they would hope.

What round 2 showed was that even with Pavlik stunned, Taylor could not (and will not in the future) put Pavlik away. Similar to Wlad Klitschko surviving the rabbit-punching of Sam Peter, such an encounter will only serve to boost Pavlik's confidence to handle Taylor's power. And Taylor will, relatedly, know that he does not have the power or ability to put Pavlik away, even if he ever is struck by lightning again and is able to stun Pavlik. Advantage: Pavlik.

What's the most odd about this first point is that it would seem Taylor and his team have come to the opposite conclusion. That is, something along the lines of "Well, JT hurt Pavlik but couldn't finish him last time. So, next time, he'll be able to hurt him AND finish him."

Not on your life.

Mark my words -- Jermain Taylor will never again have Kelly Pavlik in serious trouble in a fight between the two men. Round two will forever haunt Taylor as the 'round that got away.' Except it didn't get away. Pavlik 'gave' the opportunity to Taylor by dropping his hands, and Kelly will never make that mistake again.


2. Jermain Taylor always - ALWAYS - tires in fights; since he cannot stop Pavlik, he will always be put in a position to gas out in a fight with the middleweight champ. When this happens, Taylor will be KO'd/TKO'd by Pavlik. Take that to the bank.

I wrote about just this phenomenon before the first Pavlik-Taylor fight, and it is one of the main reasons I picked Pavlik to win by KO/TKO over Taylor. My thoughts were correct,and if anything, I am even more confident going forward that any future meetings between these two men will play out the same way -- Taylor gets on his bike and racks up points (or 'supposed' points, to biased judges), Taylor begins to tire, Taylor gets taken out.

The only difference I can see in future fights is that, as mentioned previously, Taylor will never again put Pavlik on the deck because Pavlik won't give him the opportunity to. As we have seen in the case of De La Hoya, some fighters do not seem to have the capacity to build up good cardio to last them throughout a fight. Jermain Taylor is such a fighter, and I don't see that changing.

Jermain Taylor cannot knock Pavlik out. As the fight continues, Taylor will wear down. When he does, Pavlik will "catch and dispatch" him.
- - -

Ok, so if Taylor is incapable of defeating Pavlik in the professional ranks, why on earth is he not only rematching him but apparently doing so without any "confidence-rebuilding" fights?

Again, two reasons come to mind:

1. JT really -- yes, honestly, despite all rational evidence to the contrary -- believes he had a chance to take Pavlik out in the 2nd round, and apparently also believes that chance would have existed had Pavlik not dropped his hands and let JT hit him with three 'free' shots.

This thought process is probably best described as 'buying the hype.' Jermain has never been utterly destroyed as he was against Pavlik. Heck, he had never even been down, let alone crushed to the point of the ref halting the count at '2' to stop a contest in which he had been knocked out.

We all heard the interview with JT after the fight in which he said he "can't believe" he lost. It would appear that he has still not come to grips with the reality of what happened, and is apparently holding onto the hope that, in a rematch, he will a) once again be able to hurt Pavlik before JT himself tires, and that b) this time he will be able to knock him out.

Neither a) nor b) is rational. Pavlik cannot be expected to drop his hands again for 3 'free' shots. And if Taylor was not able to finish Pavlik after having 3 free shots, what makes him think, logically, he could stop Pavlik when he does not have the help of Pavlik in delivering his punches?

Simply put, JT is in denial. His coping mechanisms appear to have shielded him from the reality of what happened in the encounter with Pavlik. If and when he does (immediately) rematch Pavlik, there will be hell to pay for this flawed thinking by Taylor.

2. Taylor is likely blaming trainer Manny Steward for his loss.

Most know of the rift between the HOF trainer and his pupil, Taylor. And when Taylor was knocked out by Pavlik, many of Jermain's "Yes men" soon began the "blame Manny" procession.

Manny Steward is not a perfect trainer. Nobody is. But Taylor didn't even try to listen to Steward's instructions in many of his fights. Many have seen Taylor nonchalantly listening to Steward's guidance only to proceed to approach the next round however he, JT, felt he wanted to. And why not, right? That approach had always worked, or at least it had until Taylor drew with Winky Wright. But even in that fight, Taylor didn't suffer a loss on the cards. When you succeed, you have no reason to change your methods. Or at least that's what you can tell yourself.

That all changed when Pavlik took his "0," his belts, and his 'never knocked down or out' status away from him.

And so someone had to be held to blame. And the strategy had to be rethought.

Unfortunately for Jermain Taylor, it appears as though his scapegoat and his evaluation of the Pavlik fight are both in error. Steward tried to help Taylor, but Jermain refused to listen. If Manny is let go, what trainer of greater stature can be brought in that Taylor will actually listen to? Who can teach him more than Manny Steward?

And if Jermain Taylor believes that he will have the same early opportunity to knock out Kelly Pavlik he had in their first encounter, he is, likewise, mistaken. But for the dropped hands, Taylor never seriously hurt Pavlik, and is not likely to do so again. Pavlik will almost certainly keep his hands up in the proper defensive position in any rematch with Taylor.
- - -

So now I come back to the title of the article, the aspect of Taylor potentially ruining his career. Why, you may ask, do I make that speculation?

This past weekend was UFC 77. The main event of that fight card was a rematch between former middleweight champion Rich "Ace" Franklin and the winner of the first encounter, Anderson "Spider" Silva.

Silva dominated Franklin in the first match-up, and instead of Franklin changing his approach to Silva fundamentally, he merely attempted to use the same tactics and execute them more effectively.

Result?

Anderson Silva by big KO in the 2nd round.

And now Franklin -- only two fights removed from being the dominant middleweight in UFC -- is at a career crossroads.

If Jermain Taylor pins his loss on Manny Steward and his inability to 'close the deal' in the 2nd round, it says here that he is walking into the same trap which Rich Franklin stepped into this past weekend. Not only will Taylor be defeated, he could be completely dominated.

Such a dramatic loss immediately following his first stunning TKO loss to Pavlik could permanently wreck Taylor's psyche as a legitimate contender and champion.

As I said, I don't think Taylor will ever defeat Pavlik in the professional ranks. It is a terrible match-up for him, and Pavlik is the superior fighter. That said, I could see Taylor lasting longer in the rematch if he is more dedicated to staying on his bicycle and conserving his energy, unlike what he did in the first fight.

However, I still believe that Pavlik will/would eventually walk-down Taylor and KO/TKO him. I doubt it will/would last more than 10 rounds, maybe 11. And this is if -- if -- Taylor is realistic about why he lost the first fight and is completely dedicated to his training and skill refinement between now and the rematch.

If Taylor fails on either accurately assessing the first fight or faltering in his training, the rematch could end even sooner than the first fight.

Either way, I don't see Taylor ever defeating Pavlik. Never. Not in the pros.

The question in my mind is: Will Taylor be intelligent and mature enough to approach a Pavlik rematch with the proper frame of mind so that he gives himself the best chance to be competitive and thus retain his self-confidence after what I feel will/would be another KO/TKO defeat to champion Pavlik?

The answer to that question could be critical in determing whether Taylor will continue to have a meaningful career after the Pavlik rematch or whether he will have been 'ruined' by Pavlik much as Calzaghe ruined Lacy, Trinidad ruined Reid, and Chavez ruined Taylor.

We'll just have to stay tuned to find out.

[Haye]

Dude, this is boxing. Of courese he can beat Pavlik. Enuff said.

[Marnoff]

When I see a guy within an inch of getting knocked out by someone, I say that is a live possibility to happen again in subsequent rematches. We know Taylor has the power to hurt Pavlik, he just fucked up in the finishing act.

[Asterion]

Why would it ruin Taylor's career? :rofl

Fighters have to lose some fights, for fucks sake.

[Zakman]

Ok, I want to make sure this point is 100% crystal clear:

Jermain Taylor will never, ever beat Kelly Pavlik in the professional ranks.

Couldn't agree with you more - your analysis is RIGHT on the money. Pavlik will not only beat Taylor again, he will knock him out EARLIER this time. :yep

[paulfv]

Why would it ruin Taylor's career? :rofl

Fighters have to lose some fights, for fucks sake.


Because, as I said, he's 1) taking it immediately, without having the chance to regain his confidence after the first (brutal) KO/TKO loss of his career and 2) he seems to be approaching it from the exact wrong perspective. I.e., next time all he needs to do is 'close the show' when he hurts Pavlik.

There is no 'next time' of Pavlik dropping his hands to let Jermain land 3 free shots.

If Taylor thinks he can just immediately rematch a guy who just destroyed him, he's nuts. This is not Lewis-McCall. This is how you ruin a guy's confidence, permanently.

[JETSKI]

Did you write all that? I didn't read it all yet, but I will. Your point about KP never "clowning" Taylor again is true & I heard Kelly say so himself on that 1 hr. Local TV special they had after the fight. That crap will never happen again.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

But I can guarantee one thing...that this will certainly happen again no matter what JT has in his gameplan.

At 166, Pavlik will take his head off.

:happy

[Pro]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Jermain Taylor was winning the fight up until he got knocked out so he can outbox Pavlik only reason he lost was because he wouldn't keep his left hand up and he got tired.
There's is nothing oh so special about Kelly Pavlik he's about as one dimensional as Ricardo Mayorga he comes forward and he throws straight punches i honestly believe that Jermain Taylor made a mistake when he tried to box Kelly Pavlik he should have went out there with reckless aggression and knocked him out. I do believe he punches harder than Pavlik but its the punches that Pavlik throws that gives him more leverage with his height advantage. If Jermain Taylor goes out there to fight Kelly Pavlik whose a boxer not a brawler then he wins but he has to be in shape.

[paulfv]

Zak -- Thanks, man! :)

Jetski -- Yes, I wrote it all.

Pavlik is WAY too smart to ever pull that 'hot dog' move again. If he doesn't do that, he never goes down. Taylor never came close to hurting him again, and I can't see him doing so in the future.

As I said, it's like if Peter and Wlad fight again: Now Wlad knows he can handle Peter's power, so his confidence is higher. Pavlik will have respect, but ZERO fear of Taylor's punch. He will walk him down, same as he did last time.

If this rematch goes down, I am 100% putting money down on it, and I don't bet sports. But this is an absolute, mortal lock. There is no way Pavlik loses to Taylor unless he either blows out a knee or something during the fight.

[SteveO]

Both men have tasted the other's skills. They'll both be a little cautious.

[JETSKI]

When I see a guy within an inch of getting knocked out by someone, I say that is a live possibility to happen again in subsequent rematches. We know Taylor has the power to hurt Pavlik, he just fucked up in the finishing act.

You make it sound like KP was seriously hurt. He wasn't...he slumped to the canvas & bounced right back up. And the only reason that happened is because he tried clowning JT. That mistake won't happen next time. And there is nothing in this world to keep Kelly from doing what he does & thats KOing his opponent.

[ThePlugInBabies]

This is not Lewis-McCall.

taylor can't 'jab and grab'. manny just can't teach that 'jab and grab' shit to jermaine.

[jsimps]

Paul, I wholeheartedly agree with you about KP knocking him out, again. If you watch the 2nd rd closely you will see KP initially gets hit with a right hand that buckles him a little. Then KP decides to tell JT he wasn't hurt and drops his hands, bad timing, because JT was throwing another right and it caught him flush. I think JT has the ability to hurt KP without him "clowning" around. Kelly needs to go with the same game plan except he needs to step it up with the number of jabs and double jabs he throws. He hurt JT with his jabs and controlled his movement, thus setting up the right hand. Good night, JT.

[ThePlugInBabies]

You make it sound like KP was seriously hurt. He wasn't...he slumped to the canvas & bounced right back up. And the only reason that happened is because he tried clowning JT. That mistake won't happen next time. And there is nothing in this world to keep Kelly from doing what he does & thats KOing his opponent.

get of his nuts ffs!! he was falling all over the ring like a drunk in glasgow town centre on a saturday night, and he barely made his way back to his corner once the bell rang. pavlik whether you like it or not was badly hurt.

dem's whiskers need some serious down grading :deal

[Darthmage]

he already lost a tooth in his lower jaw. I noticed it was missing in the interview in his locker room after the fight. Next time his career? Maybe.

[JETSKI]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Jermain Taylor was winning the fight up until he got knocked out so he can outbox Pavlik only reason he lost was because he wouldn't keep his left hand up and he got tired.
There's is nothing oh so special about Kelly Pavlik he's about as one dimensional as Ricardo Mayorga he comes forward and he throws straight punches i honestly believe that Jermain Taylor made a mistake when he tried to box Kelly Pavlik he should have went out there with reckless aggression and knocked him out. I do believe he punches harder than Pavlik but its the punches that Pavlik throws that gives him more leverage with his height advantage. If Jermain Taylor goes out there to fight Kelly Pavlik whose a boxer not a brawler then he wins but he has to be in shape.

Winning the fight on CORRUPT DUMB MOFO JUDGES scorecards. It was more like 3-3 rounds apiece going into the 7th.

Judges won't be necessary for this fight. Or ANY of KP's future Middlewt. fights.

He RULES!:D

[paulfv]

And the only reason that happened is because he tried clowning JT. That mistake won't happen next time.

This is what it's all about. Kelly won't do that next time, and he will, therefore, never take the 3 free shots that put him down.

Anybody who is hoping that Taylor can repeat that knockdown under similar circumstances is either ignorant of the sport or in fantasy land. Taylor had the rest of the fight to hurt Pavlik, and he never came close.

DiBella -- or Taylor -- is going to regret making this decision. I TOTALLY give props for Taylor for wanting to take the rematch right away, but just remember, you heard it here first. When Taylor is KO'd/TKO'd again, plenty of people saw it coming.

[paulfv]

Jetski -- I also had the scoring 3-3 going into the 7th round. The judge who had Taylor by like 5 points should be banned for life -- totally ridiculous.

But as you said, judges won't matter because: 1) Jermain always gasses out in fights and 2) KP has the power and stamina to take JT out whenever JT does gas out

[jonesjrp4p1]

taylor can have pav practically gone in there first fight but cant ever win a match??

my take on this.............questionable.

of course taylor can beat pav, thats not saying he will, but to count out his chances is very ignorant

[mightyd40]

well the post above me is actually mine......i am so sick of my bro getting on my damn comp

[JETSKI]

Jetski -- I also had the scoring 3-3 going into the 7th round. The judge who had Taylor by like 5 points should be banned for life -- totally ridiculous.

But as you said, judges won't matter because: 1) Jermain always gasses out in fights and 2) KP has the power and stamina to take JT out whenever JT does gas out

I hope its in Madison Square Garden! The Mecca of Boxing!!! This is where this fight belongs & Kelly deserves to fight there.

But again that dork Wladimir is in the way of this happening on Feb. 23 (he's currently scheduled to fight there that night), unless he stubs a toe or something.:yep

[marauder1999]

Shit I hope Pavlik wins, I just bought a fucking skateboard.

Dont worry-he will reign as champ for a loooong time. Get to skating.

[Zakman]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Jermain Taylor was winning the fight up until he got knocked out so he can outbox Pavlik only reason he lost was because he wouldn't keep his left hand up and he got tired.
There's is nothing oh so special about Kelly Pavlik he's about as one dimensional as Ricardo Mayorga he comes forward and he throws straight punches i honestly believe that Jermain Taylor made a mistake when he tried to box Kelly Pavlik he should have went out there with reckless aggression and knocked him out. I do believe he punches harder than Pavlik but its the punches that Pavlik throws that gives him more leverage with his height advantage. If Jermain Taylor goes out there to fight Kelly Pavlik whose a boxer not a brawler then he wins but he has to be in shape.

Taylor punches harder than Pavlik?? Yeah, sure - that's why he couldn't knock out welterweights with shaky chins like Cory Spinks, right?? :patsch :lol:

[paulfv]

I hope its in Madison Square Garden! The Mecca of Boxing!!! This is where this fight belongs & Kelly deserves to fight there.

But again that dork Wladimir is in the way of this happening on Feb. 23 (he's currently scheduled to fight there that night), unless he stubs a toe or something.:yep
MSG would be great!


And I want to say this just for anyone who might think differently:

I am NOT saying this to 'pump up' a white fighter, or for any of those garbage reasons. This is really how I see things with Taylor and Pavlik.

Let me elaborate: I'm Latino, so you would think I might be a big Cotto fan or be saying "he's going to kick SSM's butt," etc.

Nope.

First, I LOVE Shane. He's the man (yes, even with the THG).

But also, unless Shane gets 'old' overnight, he is going to BEAT THE LIVING PISS out of Cotto, IMO. And he would do so any time they fought.

I just want to give that example, so people don't think I'm some race-baiter, or just sticking up for the 'white guy' or whatever. I don't care about that crap.

Pavlik is just a bad, tough dude. And he's an awful matchup for Jermain, particularly the Jermain who has been living the life of HBO luxury the last few years.

Jermain seems like a really good guy, but HBO -- and ESPECIALLY biotch DiBella -- have ruined him, IMO. Jermain has a ton of talent, but he's regressed as a fighter. He has the talent to beat Pavlik, I just don't think he has the time or the right people around him to realize that talent, particularly if he is going to fight an immediate rematch with Pavlik.

It's questionable if Taylor will ever realize his potential. Hey, if I was as 'set' as he is, I might not realize my potential, either. I'm not 'hating' on JT, I'm just comparing him, as a fighter, with Pavlik. Pavlik is bigger, hungrier, and more-skilled (skilled, not talented) than is Taylor. IMO, those things are very clear.

[ron u.k.]

Ok, I want to make sure this point is 100% crystal clear:

Jermain Taylor will never, ever beat Kelly Pavlik in the professional ranks.

Their first fight is as competitive as Taylor will ever be with Kelly Pavlik. Every time these two fighters meet in the pros, Pavlik will win either by KO or TKO. No decisions, just knockouts.

It doesn't matter who's more 'skilled,' who's faster, who is more athletic, or anything else. This isn't the NFL combine, it's a prizefight.

And in that arena, Pavlik will always prevail against Taylor, head-to-head.

Why do I say this? Let's take a look at the 2 main reasons:

1. Kelly Pavlik -- as many times as he fights Taylor in the future -- will never again make the mistake of dropping his hands in an attempt to 'clown' Jermain Taylor.

If Pavlik doen't do this hot-dog act, he's never hurt and never has to get off of the deck. But for this tactical blunder, Taylor could not, and did not, hurt Pavlik. Pavlik does not -- and has no reason to -- fear Taylor's power. Unless Pavlik allows himself to be struck 3 times with his hands down again, he will never be in trouble against Taylor in any future rounds the two fight, barring a miracle by Taylor.

The Taylor fans, understandably, want to point to round 2 as some incredibly meaningful moment. And it was. But not in the way they would hope.

What round 2 showed was that even with Pavlik stunned, Taylor could not (and will not in the future) put Pavlik away. Similar to Wlad Klitschko surviving the rabbit-punching of Sam Peter, such an encounter will only serve to boost Pavlik's confidence to handle Taylor's power. And Taylor will, relatedly, know that he does not have the power or ability to put Pavlik away, even if he ever is struck by lightning again and is able to stun Pavlik. Advantage: Pavlik.

What's the most odd about this first point is that it would seem Taylor and his team have come to the opposite conclusion. That is, something along the lines of "Well, JT hurt Pavlik but couldn't finish him last time. So, next time, he'll be able to hurt him AND finish him."

Not on your life.

Mark my words -- Jermain Taylor will never again have Kelly Pavlik in serious trouble in a fight between the two men. Round two will forever haunt Taylor as the 'round that got away.' Except it didn't get away. Pavlik 'gave' the opportunity to Taylor by dropping his hands, and Kelly will never make that mistake again.


2. Jermain Taylor always - ALWAYS - tires in fights; since he cannot stop Pavlik, he will always be put in a position to gas out in a fight with the middleweight champ. When this happens, Taylor will be KO'd/TKO'd by Pavlik. Take that to the bank.

I wrote about just this phenomenon before the first Pavlik-Taylor fight, and it is one of the main reasons I picked Pavlik to win by KO/TKO over Taylor. My thoughts were correct,and if anything, I am even more confident going forward that any future meetings between these two men will play out the same way -- Taylor gets on his bike and racks up points (or 'supposed' points, to biased judges), Taylor begins to tire, Taylor gets taken out.

The only difference I can see in future fights is that, as mentioned previously, Taylor will never again put Pavlik on the deck because Pavlik won't give him the opportunity to. As we have seen in the case of De La Hoya, some fighters do not seem to have the capacity to build up good cardio to last them throughout a fight. Jermain Taylor is such a fighter, and I don't see that changing.

Jermain Taylor cannot knock Pavlik out. As the fight continues, Taylor will wear down. When he does, Pavlik will "catch and dispatch" him.
- - -

Ok, so if Taylor is incapable of defeating Pavlik in the professional ranks, why on earth is he not only rematching him but apparently doing so without any "confidence-rebuilding" fights?

Again, two reasons come to mind:

1. JT really -- yes, honestly, despite all rational evidence to the contrary -- believes he had a chance to take Pavlik out in the 2nd round, and apparently also believes that chance would have existed had Pavlik not dropped his hands and let JT hit him with three 'free' shots.

This thought process is probably best described as 'buying the hype.' Jermain has never been utterly destroyed as he was against Pavlik. Heck, he had never even been down, let alone crushed to the point of the ref halting the count at '2' to stop a contest in which he had been knocked out.

We all heard the interview with JT after the fight in which he said he "can't believe" he lost. It would appear that he has still not come to grips with the reality of what happened, and is apparently holding onto the hope that, in a rematch, he will a) once again be able to hurt Pavlik before JT himself tires, and that b) this time he will be able to knock him out.

Neither a) nor b) is rational. Pavlik cannot be expected to drop his hands again for 3 'free' shots. And if Taylor was not able to finish Pavlik after having 3 free shots, what makes him think, logically, he could stop Pavlik when he does not have the help of Pavlik in delivering his punches?

Simply put, JT is in denial. His coping mechanisms appear to have shielded him from the reality of what happened in the encounter with Pavlik. If and when he does (immediately) rematch Pavlik, there will be hell to pay for this flawed thinking by Taylor.

2. Taylor is likely blaming trainer Manny Steward for his loss.

Most know of the rift between the HOF trainer and his pupil, Taylor. And when Taylor was knocked out by Pavlik, many of Jermain's "Yes men" soon began the "blame Manny" procession.

Manny Steward is not a perfect trainer. Nobody is. But Taylor didn't even try to listen to Steward's instructions in many of his fights. Many have seen Taylor nonchalantly listening to Steward's guidance only to proceed to approach the next round however he, JT, felt he wanted to. And why not, right? That approach had always worked, or at least it had until Taylor drew with Winky Wright. But even in that fight, Taylor didn't suffer a loss on the cards. When you succeed, you have no reason to change your methods. Or at least that's what you can tell yourself.

That all changed when Pavlik took his "0," his belts, and his 'never knocked down or out' status away from him.

And so someone had to be held to blame. And the strategy had to be rethought.

Unfortunately for Jermain Taylor, it appears as though his scapegoat and his evaluation of the Pavlik fight are both in error. Steward tried to help Taylor, but Jermain refused to listen. If Manny is let go, what trainer of greater stature can be brought in that Taylor will actually listen to? Who can teach him more than Manny Steward?

And if Jermain Taylor believes that he will have the same early opportunity to knock out Kelly Pavlik he had in their first encounter, he is, likewise, mistaken. But for the dropped hands, Taylor never seriously hurt Pavlik, and is not likely to do so again. Pavlik will almost certainly keep his hands up in the proper defensive position in any rematch with Taylor.
- - -

So now I come back to the title of the article, the aspect of Taylor potentially ruining his career. Why, you may ask, do I make that speculation?

This past weekend was UFC 77. The main event of that fight card was a rematch between former middleweight champion Rich "Ace" Franklin and the winner of the first encounter, Anderson "Spider" Silva.

Silva dominated Franklin in the first match-up, and instead of Franklin changing his approach to Silva fundamentally, he merely attempted to use the same tactics and execute them more effectively.

Result?

Anderson Silva by big KO in the 2nd round.

And now Franklin -- only two fights removed from being the dominant middleweight in UFC -- is at a career crossroads.

If Jermain Taylor pins his loss on Manny Steward and his inability to 'close the deal' in the 2nd round, it says here that he is walking into the same trap which Rich Franklin stepped into this past weekend. Not only will Taylor be defeated, he could be completely dominated.

Such a dramatic loss immediately following his first stunning TKO loss to Pavlik could permanently wreck Taylor's psyche as a legitimate contender and champion.

As I said, I don't think Taylor will ever defeat Pavlik in the professional ranks. It is a terrible match-up for him, and Pavlik is the superior fighter. That said, I could see Taylor lasting longer in the rematch if he is more dedicated to staying on his bicycle and conserving his energy, unlike what he did in the first fight.

However, I still believe that Pavlik will/would eventually walk-down Taylor and KO/TKO him. I doubt it will/would last more than 10 rounds, maybe 11. And this is if -- if -- Taylor is realistic about why he lost the first fight and is completely dedicated to his training and skill refinement between now and the rematch.

If Taylor fails on either accurately assessing the first fight or faltering in his training, the rematch could end even sooner than the first fight.

Either way, I don't see Taylor ever defeating Pavlik. Never. Not in the pros.

The question in my mind is: Will Taylor be intelligent and mature enough to approach a Pavlik rematch with the proper frame of mind so that he gives himself the best chance to be competitive and thus retain his self-confidence after what I feel will/would be another KO/TKO defeat to champion Pavlik?

The answer to that question could be critical in determing whether Taylor will continue to have a meaningful career after the Pavlik rematch or whether he will have been 'ruined' by Pavlik much as Calzaghe ruined Lacy, Trinidad ruined Reid, and Chavez ruined Taylor.

We'll just have to stay tuned to find out.so do you think you've made your point?

[RealIzm]

Very nicely put. Great article. The people who doubt the assesment fail to remember that Taylor threw the HARDEST punches of his career at Pavlik. After which Pavlik only became more focused, composed, and determined to put Taylor away. I watched the fight again yesturday and its so apparent that after the 2nd Pavlik controls the pace the entire way of course Taylor gets his licks in but thats it. It was pretty incredible watching the doctor slap Taylor awake and hear him ask or realize(not sure which)and say "I got knocked out". Zertuche went the same way. Asleep on the feet

[paulfv]

Very nicely put. Great article. The people who doubt the assesment fail to remember that Taylor threw the HARDEST punches of his career at Pavlik. After which Pavlik only became more focused, composed, and determined to put Taylor away. I watched the fight again yesturday and its so apparent that after the 2nd Pavlik controls the pace the entire way of course Taylor gets his licks in but thats it. It was pretty incredible watching the doctor slap Taylor awake and hear him ask or realize(not sure which)and say "I got knocked out". Zertuche went the same way. Asleep on the feet

Thanks for the kind words. Excellent post by you, and I'm not just saying that.

Pavlik is a killer. He really is. I could not believe what he did to Miranda. After I saw that, I was sold. Edison Miranda is a beast, one of the hardest guys in the sport and Pavlik just rolled through him like he was nothing.

That was sick.

Once I saw that, I knew that Taylor's reign was over.

Well, I guess I better go and do some actual work now. Thanks for the discussion guys. Peace! :) :good:thumbsup:good

[JETSKI]

MSG would be great!


And I want to say this just for anyone who might think differently:

I am NOT saying this to 'pump up' a white fighter, or for any of those garbage reasons. This is really how I see things with Taylor and Pavlik.

Let me elaborate: I'm Latino, so you would think I might be a big Cotto fan or be saying "he's going to kick SSM's butt," etc.

Nope.

First, I LOVE Shane. He's the man (yes, even with the THG).

But also, unless Shane gets 'old' overnight, he is going to BEAT THE LIVING PISS out of Cotto, IMO. And he would do so any time they fought.

I just want to give that example, so people don't think I'm some race-baiter, or just sticking up for the 'white guy' or whatever. I don't care about that crap.

Pavlik is just a bad, tough dude. And he's an awful matchup for Jermain, particularly the Jermain who has been living the life of HBO luxury the last few years.

Jermain seems like a really good guy, but HBO -- and ESPECIALLY biotch DiBella -- have ruined him, IMO. Jermain has a ton of talent, but he's regressed as a fighter. He has the talent to beat Pavlik, I just don't think he has the time or the right people around him to realize that talent, particularly if he is going to fight an immediate rematch with Pavlik.

It's questionable if Taylor will ever realize his potential. Hey, if I was as 'set' as he is, I might not realize my potential, either. I'm not 'hating' on JT, I'm just comparing him, as a fighter, with Pavlik. Pavlik is bigger, hungrier, and more-skilled (skilled, not talented) than is Taylor. IMO, those things are very clear.

More kind words...your a damn good poster, Where have you been & where were you before this fight took place? You've got over a 1000 posts & don't ever remember seeing "Paulfv" here before.

Keep up the good work. I hope KP is at home reading all this good stuff about him.

And it better not go to his head. He has to stay hungry & not rest on his accomplishments.

There's more fish to fry out there!


(((((((((GO KP))))))))))

:!:

[Pro]

Taylor punches harder than Pavlik?? Yeah, sure - that's why he couldn't knock out welterweights with shaky chins like Cory Spinks, right?? :patsch :lol:

Name one time in any round did he really hit Corey Spinks. Spinks ran from Taylor that whole fight. It's funny you say that he didn't knock Corey down but he sure does know he can put Pavlik on his ass. That's enough for anybody to get motivated to get back in there he should have won he'll be smarter next time.

[Pro]

Winning the fight on CORRUPT DUMB MOFO JUDGES scorecards. It was more like 3-3 rounds apiece going into the 7th.

Judges won't be necessary for this fight. Or ANY of KP's future Middlewt. fights.

He RULES!:D

He's overrated and one dimensional and anybody who comes to fight will beat Kelly Pavlik

[JETSKI]

Thanks for the kind words. Excellent post by you, and I'm not just saying that.

Pavlik is a killer. He really is. I could not believe what he did to Miranda. After I saw that, I was sold. Edison Miranda is a beast, one of the hardest guys in the sport and Pavlik just rolled through him like he was nothing.

That was sick.

Once I saw that, I knew that Taylor's reign was over.

Well, I guess I better go and do some actual work now. Thanks for the discussion guys. Peace! :) :good:thumbsup:good

Love hearing stuff like that.:happy

Only I've been sold on Pavlik since 3-04-05, when he KO'ed Dorian Beaupierre ([Only registered and activated users can see links]). Another victim who was never down or stopped in his career.

Kelly "The Killer" Pavlik sounds more appropriate.:yep

[LogDog69]

I don't know if an immediate rematch is smart but it's not necessarily going to ruin his career. Mosley did this twice with Forrest and Winky and his career isn't ruined even though he didn't win either rematch.

[JETSKI]

Thanks for the kind words. Excellent post by you, and I'm not just saying that.

Pavlik is a killer. He really is. I could not believe what he did to Miranda. After I saw that, I was sold. Edison Miranda is a beast, one of the hardest guys in the sport and Pavlik just rolled through him like he was nothing.

That was sick.

Once I saw that, I knew that Taylor's reign was over.

Well, I guess I better go and do some actual work now. Thanks for the discussion guys. Peace! :) :good:thumbsup:good

Love hearing stuff like that.:happy

Only I've been sold on Pavlik since 3-04-05, when he KO'ed Dorian Beaupierre ([Only registered and activated users can see links]). Another victim who was never down or stopped in his career.

Kelly "The Killer" Pavlik sounds more appropriate.:yep

Sorry about the duplicate post.

[raw873]

I agree with most of the post and I think Pavlik KOs Taylor again, maybe a little later but it still happens. I think Taylor took the fight because of pride. He can't believe he lost and he wants to show the world he can really beat Pavlik. It was a close fight but as you say, Taylor does not have the stamina to deal with a best like Pavlik. Things to think about though, the fight is at 166 where Taylor will be stronger and probably not tire as much because of the struggle to make the 160 limit. I understand that goes both ways and I believe that it will help Pavlik more but things Taylor is probably thinking. Also, he is not going to make more money fighting anyone else as this will probably end up on PPV. The other big factor is that I am almost certain the fight will be in Vegas where Pavlik will not have all the fans from Youngstown. That could be a big deal. All and all, not enough of a gain for Taylor who still goes to sleep somewhere after the 8th round but I give him props for fighting the fight he did and for rematching Pavlik immediately.

[JETSKI]

I don't know if an immediate rematch is smart but it's not necessarily going to ruin his career. Mosley did this twice with Forrest and Winky and his career isn't ruined even though he didn't win either rematch.

But it certainly took away some of the luster on his career. Winning those rematches could have been a big plus on his resume.

[jsimps]

Kelly has fought numerous times in vegas and his fans will follow. May be not to the degree that he had in AC, but that is what is special about Y-town. I hope they fight in NY, because they surely will draw just as many Y-town fans, if not more, as AC. Either way, KP = KO rd7.

The "Get Ready to Rumble" thread is the Vindy article on this fight.

[JETSKI]

He's overrated and one dimensional and anybody who comes to fight will beat Kelly Pavlik

Zuniga came to fight, boy, did he. And you saw what happened to him. Whats that? You never saw that fight?

Go find your own link to it!

:rofl

This place cracks me up thanks to fools like you.

"ANYBODY" who comes to fight? You know jack shit about boxing cause anyone that does can see that Pavlik applies so much pressure that he breaks down their spirit before he breaks them down phsyically.

Good try.

[pablogad]

If Jermaine Taylor can take care of his stamina and employ a non offense based defense he has every chance of beating Pavlik. Scribes and fans alike can believe whatever bs theories they want to manufactuer or otherwise about Pavlik's indestructability. Pavlik was in a competitive fight right up until the point that he knocked out Jermaine; Jermaine chumped out when he failed to close the show earlier.

Now the point of this post saying that Jermaine made a bad decision - I beg to differ. I read too many posts crying for competitive meaningful match ups and the like. Jermaine's hopefully stepping up to the plate and should be commended for his warrior mentality and competitive pride. He certainly shouldn't be criticised for facing his tough challenges, win or lose.

I remember seeing Azumah Nelson getting destroyed by Jeff Fenech, only to anihilate Jeff in the return bout (not too sure if this happened back to back?). Therefore to say he only can lose the rematch is misguided bordering on foolish.

[BewareofDawg]

Shit I hope Pavlik wins, I just bought a fucking skateboard.
:lol:

[Marnoff]

1. You make it sound like KP was seriously hurt. He wasn't...he slumped to the canvas & bounced right back up.

2. And the only reason that happened is because he tried clowning JT. That mistake won't happen next time.

3. And there is nothing in this world to keep Kelly from doing what he does & thats KOing his opponent.

1. He was serious hurt. Period. If you can watch that and say with a straight face that Pavlik was not hurt at all, then you're a liar, flat out - or seriously confused.

2. I don't care why it happened. The fact is that it did happen.

3. Alright? I don't care who wins the fight, I like both guys. Pavlik probably wins the rematch, but my points still stand.

[letsrun4it]

Of course if Taylor wins by KO he's got a 5 million dollar payday for the trilogy lined up

[JETSKI]

If Jermaine Taylor can take care of his stamina and employ a non offense based defense he has every chance of beating Pavlik. Scribes and fans alike can believe whatever bs theories they want to manufactuer or otherwise about Pavlik's indestructability. Pavlik was in a competitive fight right up until the point that he knocked out Jermaine; Jermaine chumped out when he failed to close the show earlier.

Now the point of this post saying that Jermaine made a bad decision - I beg to differ. I read too many posts crying for competitive meaningful match ups and the like. Jermaine's hopefully stepping up to the plate and should be commended for his warrior mentality and competitive pride. He certainly shouldn't be criticised for facing his tough challenges, win or lose.

I remember seeing Azumah Nelson getting destroyed by Jeff Fenech, only to anihilate Jeff in the return bout (not too sure if this happened back to back?). Therefore to say he only can lose the rematch is misguided bordering on foolish.

Good post, newbie.:!:

Your correct is saying that his pride was hurt bigtime & this is what is motivating him to want to erase that first defeat of his carreer. But also there might be some foolishness on his part to not try & work out his problems with stamina & punching accuracy with some tune-ups before he jumps back into the fire with KP.

[Marnoff]

Kelly has fought numerous times in vegas and his fans will follow. May be not to the degree that he had in AC, but that is what is special about Y-town. I hope they fight in NY, because they surely will draw just as many Y-town fans, if not more, as AC. Either way, KP = KO rd7.

The "Get Ready to Rumble" thread is the Vindy article on this fight.

I agree. Kelly's fans will follow him anywhere in the U.S.. They'll be there in Vegas in numbers if that is where it happens. If it takes place in New York I'm considering going.

[madpup]

I swear, with attitude like this some boxing fans do not deserve to have the big entertaining match ups. TAYLOR SHOULD BE COMMENDED FOR HIS COURAGE IN TAKING A REMATCH. Even if he is more likely to lose, the first fight was awesome and hopefully this one will be just as entertaining.

One thing boxing does not need is fighters taking on ridiculously easy opponents so that not to 'ruin' their careers.

edit: Just realised i repeated exactly Pablograd's point, sorry man, I missed your post earlier.

[jsimps]

I agree. Kelly's fans will follow him anywhere in the U.S.. They'll be there in Vegas in numbers if that is where it happens. If it takes place in New York I'm considering going.

If it happens at MSG, the size of the KP crowd will dwarf that of the AC crowd. Y-town will have relocated. Shorter drive to NY.

[JETSKI]

1. He was serious hurt. Period. If you can watch that and say with a straight face that Pavlik was not hurt at all, then you're a liar, flat out - or seriously confused.

2. I don't care why it happened. The fact is that it did happen.

3. Alright? I don't care who wins the fight, I like both guys. Pavlik probably wins the rematch, but my points still stand.

Yes, he was hurt. BUT NOT SERIOUSLY HURT is my point. In the rematch, I can see JT trying his mightiest in the early goings to get KP out of there. That spells doom for Jermain, cause his stamina is what it is. I highly doubt he'll be able to improve upon what his condition was for the first fight.

[booklord]

What Pavlik needs to do
----------------------------------
No more showboating. Step up the pace even more and throw in more body shots to further exploit Taylor's stanima problems. When he has Taylor cornered use his range to keep a protective distance from Taylor so he can't fight back effectively like he did so many times in the previous fight. Work on defense as now that he's experienced Taylor's speed he should be better able to prepare for it.

What Taylor needs to do
----------------------------------
DEFENSE. DEFENSE. DEFENSE. Trying to go for the knockout is a bad idea. If Taylor couldn't KO Pavlik when he had no legs in the 2nd then his chances are even slimmer now as Pavlik likely won't goof off again. If Taylor tries for a KO and fails then he'll tire out and Pavlik will crush him. Likewise Taylor cannot let Pavlik set the pace of the fight or it'll just be another repeat of round 7. Instead Taylor must use defense to ward off Pavlik's volume while avoiding expending energy himself. Then using his superior handspeed Taylor needs to score enough hits to win the rounds and make it to a decision victory.


How I see it
----------------
It doesn't look good for Taylor. Pavlik's shortcomings are much more easily fixable than Taylor's. In addition unless his first KO loss knocked some sense into him, Taylor has a reputation for not being able to lose his "bad habits". Unless Taylor comes in with 100% improved defense, Pavlik will control the pace of the fight. And if that happens, Taylor will tire, he will slow down, and Pavlik will knock him senseless again.

[LogDog69]

But it certainly took away some of the luster on his career. Winning those rematches could have been a big plus on his resume.

Oh I agree it definitely took away some of the luster and that if he won the rematches it would have been a major plus, but it didn't "ruin" his career. The only way that JT's career would be ruined if Pavlik beats him again is if JT himself lets it get ruined.

[rendog67]

i disagree

[psychopath]

Jermain's latest "Bad Decision" - an immediate Pavlik rematch - could ruin his career

Well he has a fighting career not an acting career . . . so be it. If he loses again no problem. The point is . . . the guy has the balls to seek his real destiny. NO HYPES. :yep

[ironchamp]

Zak -- Thanks, man! :)

Jetski -- Yes, I wrote it all.

Pavlik is WAY too smart to ever pull that 'hot dog' move again. If he doesn't do that, he never goes down. Taylor never came close to hurting him again, and I can't see him doing so in the future.

As I said, it's like if Peter and Wlad fight again: Now Wlad knows he can handle Peter's power, so his confidence is higher. Pavlik will have respect, but ZERO fear of Taylor's punch. He will walk him down, same as he did last time.

If this rematch goes down, I am 100% putting money down on it, and I don't bet sports. But this is an absolute, mortal lock. There is no way Pavlik loses to Taylor unless he either blows out a knee or something during the fight.

Since when is it a bad move for a legitimate middleweight champion to ask for an immediate rematch following a KO loss of a competitive fight?

You're take on the rematch is reasonable but not something I would bank on. I had Taylor ahead at the time of stoppage (3-3) by 1 point. So it wasnt one sided. Pavlik fought very well but Taylor's problem was he kept freezing and almost letting himself get into the corner and he was leaving himself wide open for those right hands by keeping his left pretty low. Pavlik was hitting an open target almost all night. While Taylor also showed me that his chin is durable, Pavlik is too big a puncher for any middleweight to consistently take those flush right hands from.

Provided Taylor makes a few key adjustments, I see no reason why he can't win. I wouldnt bet the house on it but I'm certain he can pull it off.

[jsimps]

The reason he going to the corner was due to Pavlik's jab. He was getting hurt by it and he was retreating. JT was hit by several big right hands and was getting hurt. Not to the point where he was on "queer street", but to the degree it was noticable.

[bigeddie27]

Because, as I said, he's 1) taking it immediately, without having the chance to regain his confidence after the first (brutal) KO/TKO loss of his career and 2) he seems to be approaching it from the exact wrong perspective. I.e., next time all he needs to do is 'close the show' when he hurts Pavlik.

There is no 'next time' of Pavlik dropping his hands to let Jermain land 3 free shots.

If Taylor thinks he can just immediately rematch a guy who just destroyed him, he's nuts. This is not Lewis-McCall. This is how you ruin a guy's confidence, permanently.
lewis did it with mcall and rahman. So did plenty of other fighters. A true champion comes back and does it right away to redeem himself. what the fuck is wrong with you? and btw, im picking jermain to win the rematch, you heard it here first.

[ron u.k.]

If Jermaine Taylor can take care of his stamina and employ a non offense based defense he has every chance of beating Pavlik. Scribes and fans alike can believe whatever bs theories they want to manufactuer or otherwise about Pavlik's indestructability. Pavlik was in a competitive fight right up until the point that he knocked out Jermaine; Jermaine chumped out when he failed to close the show earlier.

Now the point of this post saying that Jermaine made a bad decision - I beg to differ. I read too many posts crying for competitive meaningful match ups and the like. Jermaine's hopefully stepping up to the plate and should be commended for his warrior mentality and competitive pride. He certainly shouldn't be criticised for facing his tough challenges, win or lose.

I remember seeing Azumah Nelson getting destroyed by Jeff Fenech, only to anihilate Jeff in the return bout (not too sure if this happened back to back?). Therefore to say he only can lose the rematch is misguided bordering on foolish.i agree entirely.i must have missed something in the 1st fight because if you read posts on here you would think pavlik put a beatdown on taylor all night,all i witnessed was a close fight. although better than in previous fights taylors stamina is the key in the return.i think he should retain his aggression it was the best he'd looked since he won the title,and if he can improve his stamina i don't think the rematch is anything other than a 50/50 with perhaps just a slight leaning in favour of pavlik.

[TheGreat]

Yes, he was hurt. BUT NOT SERIOUSLY HURT is my point. In the rematch, I can see JT trying his mightiest in the early goings to get KP out of there. That spells doom for Jermain, cause his stamina is what it is. I highly doubt he'll be able to improve upon what his condition was for the first fight.

I'm not saying JT will win the rematch but you and the guy who started this thread are both full of shit, the fight was not the PBF/Gatti beatdown you 2 make it out to be it was close, and Pavlik was hurt in fact he was out on his feet the ref could have easily stopped it in the 2nd rd so stop being a nuthugger.

[BoxingGuru]

Fucking retarded post. Pavlik almost gets knocked out in the second round and there is no way Taylor can beat him? God this forum is overrun with idiots.:patsch

[TheGreat]

Fucking retarded post. Pavlik almost gets knocked out in the second round and there is no way Taylor can beat him? God this forum is overrun with idiots.:patsch

No it's filled with irrational haters and nuthuggers.

[Asterion]

Taylor punches harder than Pavlik?? Yeah, sure - that's why he couldn't knock out welterweights with shaky chins like Cory Spinks, right?? :patsch :lol:

I agree that obviously Pavlik punches much harder.

By the way, how would you rate Pavlik's chin after knowing that he can go down from punches of someone like JT?

If Cory Spinks has a shaky chin and Taylor couldn't knock him down, where does that put Pavlik?

[psychopath]

Fucking retarded post. Pavlik almost gets knocked out in the second round and there is no way Taylor can beat him? God this forum is overrun with idiots.:patsch

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Maybe Taylor knows he has no chance of beating Pav that's why he wants the rematch. :D

[Tuavale]

Taylor is a delusional stuttering fool. He can't believe someone beat him and wants to correct it as soon as he can. He doesn't seem to grasp that he was capable of losing a fight. Except for the 2nd round, Pavlik was in control and in that round, he gave Taylor the chance to hit him in that manner. That won't happen again and Pavlik will score 2 KO wins in a row over the Arkansonian. Also, it has been rumored that Manny Steward has already abandoned Taylor's ship. I knew he would, even before the loss.:rofl :rofl :smoke :smoke

[RafaelGonzal]

Tell you what at 165 Kelly will hand JT an even worse KO, This time the KO will even more brutal. JT will be slower and the ghost will be much stronger dumb ass decision to fight the bigger man at his advantage and play to his strength 165 LBS is not where JTwants to be at, its 160 have Kelly be starved and dried out and hope to speed him and slap and run all night long and win a shit decision otherwise at 165 he is going to get KTFO

[drvooh]

Couldn't agree with you more - your analysis is RIGHT on the money. Pavlik will not only beat Taylor again, he will knock him out EARLIER this time. :yep Gotta go along with the author if you agree with him, becasue I've learned not to doubt your anallysis':D

[Florida boy]

Because, as I said, he's 1) taking it immediately, without having the chance to regain his confidence after the first (brutal) KO/TKO loss of his career and 2) he seems to be approaching it from the exact wrong perspective. I.e., next time all he needs to do is 'close the show' when he hurts Pavlik.

There is no 'next time' of Pavlik dropping his hands to let Jermain land 3 free shots.

If Taylor thinks he can just immediately rematch a guy who just destroyed him, he's nuts. This is not Lewis-McCall. This is how you ruin a guy's confidence, permanently.
Pavlik didnt drop his hands, he got hit hard, stuck his tongue out, and got hit again, and was hurt, then JT knocked him down with barrage, Pavlik gets up, and is on queer street the rest of the round. Nate Campbell and Robbie Peden, that was a guy dropping his hands. That was a competetive fight and like i said before in other threads, in my own opinion, opinion, Taylor has more room to improve the next fight then Pavlik, who is what he is, a plodding, power punching pressure fighter. Anyways, i guess we'll see since the fight looks like its gonna happen.

[drvooh]

I agree that obviously Pavlik punches much harder.

By the way, how would you rate Pavlik's chin after knowing that he can go down from punches of someone like JT?

If Cory Spinks has a shaky chin and Taylor couldn't knock him down, where does that put Pavlik? PAvlik got caught with a flurry...If Spinks was hit flush that many times, I do believe he'd be out

[Bubba]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Jermain Taylor was winning the fight up until he got knocked out so he can outbox Pavlik only reason he lost was because he wouldn't keep his left hand up and he got tired.
There's is nothing oh so special about Kelly Pavlik he's about as one dimensional as Ricardo Mayorga he comes forward and he throws straight punches i honestly believe that Jermain Taylor made a mistake when he tried to box Kelly Pavlik he should have went out there with reckless aggression and knocked him out. I do believe he punches harder than Pavlik but its the punches that Pavlik throws that gives him more leverage with his height advantage. If Jermain Taylor goes out there to fight Kelly Pavlik whose a boxer not a brawler then he wins but he has to be in shape.

Taylor wasn't outboxing Pavlik, the judges were on their way to giving Taylor another gift decision.

The fight was pretty even on my scorecard even with the second round knockdown.

[psychopath]

Yeah it might ruin his career . . . but the fact that the guy still wants it . . . only shows Taylor ought to be praised.

Isn't that what you fucki'n haters like? :think

Now shut the fuck up . . . and give the guy some respect.

The truth is . . . you people are not fan of the sports but merely NUTHUGGERS or HATERS. Bunch of chicken shits! :yep

[booradley]

I totally agree that it is foolish for JT to want an immediate rematch. Boxing is a business, and from that stand point he would be much better offer to move up, fight a couple 2nd tier guys, and then go after the big guns. Make Pavlik come in as the challenger again in the rematch, and give JT time to rebuild his confidence, and correct his flaws.

I've watched the fight 6 times, and I have noticed that the compu-box numbers were very skewded. And, everyone knows the judge's scores were just ridiculous. Taylor got a shitload of credit for puches that just bounced off Pavlik's gloves and forearms. I now have the fight 4 rounds to 2 Pavlik. Initially I had JT 1 point ahead.

That being said, I agree that Kelly won't make the mistake of dropping his hands and sticking his freaking chin out a second time. Even with that stupid mistake, and as close to out as Pavlik was, he still came back and handed Taylor an ass whoopin' in the next round. That says he has a remarkable chin and serious recuperative powers. Not to mention, he now knows he can go right after Taylor with guns blazin' and not get knocked out, and that is VERY BAD NEWS for JT.

I really see only one possible scenario for a rematch at 166: JT gets ktfo in round 5 or 6 after a one-sided beat down.

However: Respect and props to JT! Pavlik has fought some tough motherfuckers, and I'm almost positive that Taylor is THE ONLY ONE who ever asked for a rematch!!!

Boo

[Rise Above]

I'm pretty sure Pavlik will win but Taylor still has a chance. To say that he will never ever beat Pavlik is a little over the top.

[carras]

I think pavlik wins again, but taylor DOES have a good chance.

[tays001]

pavlik by ko

[paulfv]

Tell you what at 165 Kelly will hand JT an even worse KO, This time the KO will even more brutal. JT will be slower and the ghost will be much stronger dumb ass decision to fight the bigger man at his advantage and play to his strength 165 LBS is not where JTwants to be at, its 160 have Kelly be starved and dried out and hope to speed him and slap and run all night long and win a shit decision otherwise at 165 he is going to get KTFO

I totally agree with your post.

I still think a rematch could go longer than the first fight, however, if Taylor is smart enough to try to get and stay on his bicycle. I still see him getting stopped, but he might make it to the 10th or 11th instead of to just the 7th.

If Taylor believes -- quite incorrectly, IMO -- that his best strategy is to try to get in and mix it up with Pavlik in hopes of recreating the 2nd round, then this fight is going to be over early, something along the lines of a Chavez-Taylor II.

And that's what concerns me about it, the immediate rematch, for Taylor's career. Someone earlier mentioned how SSM came back from the Forrest and Wright fights. That is a great point. However, he didn't get mercilessly KO'd in any of those fights like Taylor already has once and, I feel, he will be again when he next meets Pavlik.

As the author of the post I'm quoting said, the extra weight is almost sure to help Pavlik and hurt Taylor.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I give Taylor ALL the respect in the world for taking the immediate rematch, but from a career/psychological standpoint, I am very concerned that we might well see the next "Lacy" if and when this immediate rematch comes off.

Taking your first loss, especially via a huge knockout, is hard enough. Asking to immediately be thrown back into the meat-grinder and be KO'd again is the type of thing which can break many guys.

Like I said, it reminds me of what happened in UFC 77. Franklin somehow thought 'this time it will be different' against Anderson Silva. It wasn't -- he got destroyed all over again.

If this immediate rematch comes off, look for the same thing to happen to Taylor.

I don't know who's making this decision; maybe HBO and/or Dibella know they've ridden the "Jermain Train" about as far as they can and they want to cash-out with a big rematch while the iron is hot, so to speak.

Or maybe Taylor is demanding this himself. I don't know. If Taylor is making this decision, it is courageous. If HBO/DiBella is making this decision it strikes me as callous.

Whoever decided to do this, on Taylor's side, is making a huge mistake. This match is not in the best interests of the fighter's career, IMO. Neither for Taylor's longevity or for his marketability.

Look, as a fan I'm THRILLED this fight will take place. Just as a human being I feel bad that Taylor is deciding (or someone is deciding for him) to do this.

Who knows? Maybe Taylor will come back in the rematch and crush Pavlik and make me look like a fool.

But I wouldn't hold your breath for that one.

Pavlik is an assassain. He's the kind of fighter you hope you never come up against. He is Russell Crowe's version of James Braddock in "Cinderella Man" when the one fighter hits Braddock with his best punch and James just smiles at him and the other guy realizes he's in for a long fight. That's what Pavlik did to Taylor after he survived the second round. Manny Steward said as much. Putting a guy back in, immediately, with someone who just KO'd him for the first time in his career is a very, very questionable move. Expect the same result, and wish the best for Taylor.
- - -

Jetski -- Thanks, my friend. Many of my posts came with my using an avatar of myself from the waist up in glasses with a red background. I recently switched the avatar after the Pavlik fight, and shortly before that a mod had made the avatar something about "being an asshole," or something. That might be why you don't recognize me. Take care! :good:thumbsup:good

[ron u.k.]

Taylor is a delusional stuttering fool. He can't believe someone beat him and wants to correct it as soon as he can. He doesn't seem to grasp that he was capable of losing a fight. Except for the 2nd round, Pavlik was in control and in that round, he gave Taylor the chance to hit him in that manner. That won't happen again and Pavlik will score 2 KO wins in a row over the Arkansonian. Also, it has been rumored that Manny Steward has already abandoned Taylor's ship. I knew he would, even before the loss.:rofl :rofl :smoke :smokewhat a post!taylor wants to get back in there and try to correct a loss and win back the title and you diss him.if he showed no inclination to get back in with pavlik you'd say he was ducking.huggers never cease to amaze.:huh

[maciek4]

I had it 3-3 in rounds and most people and the judges had Taylor up even 5-1 but I thought Pavlik controlled the fight, he was the agressor and was getting stronger by each round wereas Jermain was getting weaker. Jermain certainly has the skills to outbox Pavlik but I just dont think he can keep taking PAvlik shots for 12 rounds and continue outboxing him.

[BoxingGuru]

This thread goes on my top 5 worst EBS threads ever and the person who started it one of the worst top 3 posters here ever.

You almost knock your opponent out cold and you get fucking morons like the starter of this thread posting crap like a rematch is bad for your career.

Laughable.

[Nokstar]

why do people act like this was a blowout or something? Do you cats not remember pavlik almost lost in the 2nd round? Do u not realize Taylor was ahead on points before getting caught? Shut that shyt up...seriously.

[paulfv]

This thread goes on my top 5 worst EBS threads ever and the person who started it one of the worst top 3 posters here ever.

You almost knock your opponent out cold and you get fucking morons like the starter of this thread posting crap like a rematch is bad for your career.

Laughable.

Great.

Just make sure you're here when Taylor gets knocked out again.

When that happens, I'll be the guy with the smile on my face that says "I told you so."

That you like Taylor is not my concern. Fight analysis and prediction is.

Taylor's best chance to beat Pavlik has passed him by. Next fight means a higher weight, no Pavlik dropping his hands to clown Taylor, and Taylor with the knowledge and fear that Pavlik can knock him TFO.

It's pretty simple -- at least it is for me. But maybe once you've watched, participated and covered the sweet science for nearly 30 years as I have, you'll look at it more with your head than your heart, as now seems to be the case.

Maybe.

Somehow, though, I doubt it.

Pavlik by KO or TKO. That's the pick if and when this immediate rematch takes place. And if you're feeling brave during the week when the fight goes down, we can do a sig bet.

I always put my money where my mouth is. Hope the same can be said for you, my friend.

[BoxingGuru]

Great.

Just make sure you're here when Taylor gets knocked out again.

When that happens, I'll be the guy with the smile on my face that says "I told you so."

That you like Taylor is not my concern. Fight analysis and prediction is.

Taylor's best chance to beat Pavlik has passed him by. Next fight means a higher weight, no Pavlik dropping his hands to clown Taylor, and Taylor with the knowledge and fear that Pavlik can knock him TFO.

It's pretty simple -- at least it is for me. But maybe once you've watched, participated and covered the sweet science for nearly 30 years as I have, you'll look at it more with your head than your heart, as now seems to be the case.

Maybe.

Somehow, though, I doubt it.

Pavlik by KO or TKO. That's the pick if and when this immediate rematch takes place. And if you're feeling brave during the week when the fight goes down, we can do a sig bet.

I always put my money where my mouth is. Hope the same can be said for you, my friend.

What is your IQ like 90? Did I even MAKE a prediction about the fight? NO. I said YOU are a dumb ass for saying there's no way Taylor can win when he almost knocked Pavlik out in the first fight. Think about it. You're being really really dumb.

[paulfv]

Boxing Guru -- Ok, it's time for me to move on from trying to discuss this with you. You either are willfully ignorant or lack reading comprehension skills, or both. Pavlik never goes down in the 2nd unless he drops his hands and gets caught with 3 shots after that. As I said, there is no chance he does that in a rematch. No hands down, no knockdown, no nothing. And even with his being hurt, Taylor still couldn't finish him. Both men are very aware of this.

To repeat: Taylor has zero - NADA, NIL - chance of defeating Kelly as a professional given their two styles, their physical characteristics (Taylor just cannot seem to develop his cardio in such a manner so that he does not 'fade' in his fights), their having already fought (Pavlik now knows Taylor can't drop him unless KP gets caught 'clowning' again), and due to their weights being higher (Pavlik gets to be at a more natural weight for him while Taylor has to move away from his natural fighting weight, middleweight).

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, outside of Kelly suffering a fluke injury (like tearing a knee ligament), can I see Jermain Taylor defeating Pavlik. That this is an immediate rematch after Taylor suffered a brutal knockout and the first loss of his career only makes my feeling that this is a "mortal lock" that much stronger.

If you wager, and this fight is available at a sportsbook you have access to, do not hesitate: bet your mortgage, your friend's mortgage, and your friend's friend's mortgage on Kelly Pavlik.

As others have said, I believe this fight will be even easier for Pavlik than was the first one. I would be very surprised if Pavlik were knocked down, and I would be very surprised if Taylor were not knocked out. Taylor may be able to score a flash knockdown of Kelly if Pavlik gets careless, but other than that, I don't think Jermain will have much if any opportunity to hurt the champ.

The fight could go longer than 7, but it should be fairly smooth sailing for Pavlik as he methodically stalks and destroys JT once again. The scorecards shouldn't matter, just as they didn't when Pavlik won the titles.

Here were my takes after Pavlik TKO'd JT in the 7th:

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[Only registered and activated users can see links]


Expect more of the same when the two fighters meet again, particularly if they meet in an immediate rematch.
- - - - - -

botha -- I could not agree with you more. Taylor is an overhyped pretender who was finally exposed for what he is by a legitimate, young middleweight. The bloom is off the rose, and it's not coming back.

I like JT, but until and unless he gets the desire to improve his skills and the willingness to listen to a trainer's instruction, I think the best days for Taylor are behind him.

[istmeno]

why do people act like this was a blowout or something? Do you cats not remember pavlik almost lost in the 2nd round? Do u not realize Taylor was ahead on points before getting caught? Shut that shyt up...seriously.

taylor did not "get caught" john tate got caught by mike weaver. getting caught implies that an unexpected punch landed. pavlik was nailing taylor with that right hand all night long.

[paulfv]

taylor did not "get caught" john tate got caught by mike weaver. getting caught implies that an unexpected punch landed. pavlik was nailing taylor with that right hand all night long.
Definitely.

I watched the post-fight press conference (the link to the first part of it is in a post of mine from this page), and both Pavlik and his trainer said, basically, that Kelly 'couldn't miss' Taylor with whatever he threw.

This is one of the many flaws in Taylor's game -- he is incredibly easy to hit. You might get away with that against Cory Spinks, but against a bigger man who is accurate like Pavlik, that lack of defense is fatal.

[ron u.k.]

i'm no particular fan of either but the way some of the pavlik huggers are talking you would have thought the fight was a one sided blowout.maybe i was missing something but it seemed a pretty even match to me,with admitedlly pavlik probably getting stronger.i'd only seen pavlik against miranda before the taylor fight but i like the kid,big,strong and determined and obviously the kind of fighter you have to nail to the floor if you get him hurt because he's going to just keep coming back at you.taylor i thought got a bad deal from people after his 2 wins against hopkins but since then he had stunk the place out.however against pavlik i thought it was the best he'd looked since winning the title.at least he was positive and aggresive and looked like a genuine fighting man in there.if he can improve his stamina issues then i think the return is virtually 50/50.it is strange however that even though taylor is showing a great desire to get back in there to win his title back he's being dissed by some as a fool for trying.if he showed no inclination to do so he would be getting crucified as a ducker.sometimes you just can't win.

[Monstar]

i seriously doubt it would ruin his carreer, even if his does manage to lose again... it wont be an easy loss, and he can still beat the other 99% of the middleweights out there, and majority of the super mid's

[istmeno]

i seriously doubt it would ruin his carreer, even if his does manage to lose again... it wont be an easy loss, and he can still beat the other 99% of the middleweights out there, and majority of the super mid's

i disagree. this is exactly the type of fight that can ruin a young fighter. yes it was a very competitive fight. not a blowout by any means. but although taylor was winning the fight, he was also the one taking the most damage. i compare it to some extent to chavez v meldrick one fighter looking better, but the other just doing much more damage. imo they could fight 10 times, and pavlik would win 9. that is just the way i see the matchup. taylors style is tailor made for pavlik.

every fighter has his poison. and pavlik is simply taylors poison.

[Jose FM]

Paul great piece of analysis as always... I think if Taylor doesnt get Ko'ed hell just try to survive and at the end of the night FINALLY come up short on the cards, but youre right on the money when you say that: Taylor will never beat Pavlik as a professional, at any weight, i think especially so at 166, the added weight just favors Pavlik so i dont see how thats gonna effect anything.
Also, im glad you pointed out that Pavlik was hotdoggin in the second and he dropped his hands ala Winky-Mosley II (No Taylor fans ever wanna admit that)
Anyways keep up the good work!:thumbsup

[Monstar]

i dont dissagree that pavlik can beat taylor.. but he can still beat sturm in my opinion, he can still beat abraham, feel me?

so lets say who loses to pavlik again... if after his fight, he has some convincing wins over some fighters like duddy, or wright (although i dont wanna see that again).. then he gets a title shot with abraham, takes his title.. moves on too sturm, takes his title.. then his career would be relevant again, and i'd say his chances of beatin pavlik is 1 outta 3.. so goin by that, lucc might be on his side this time..

well all that's wishful thinkin, although i'm not a big taylor fan.. i just dont think you can count out a fighter like him, feel me?

[Florida boy]

Paul great piece of analysis as always... I think if Taylor doesnt get Ko'ed hell just try to survive and at the end of the night FINALLY come up short on the cards, but youre right on the money when you say that: Taylor will never beat Pavlik as a professional, at any weight, i think especially so at 166, the added weight just favors Pavlik so i dont see how thats gonna effect anything.
Also, im glad you pointed out that Pavlik was hotdoggin in the second and he dropped his hands ala Winky-Mosley II (No Taylor fans ever wanna admit that)
Anyways keep up the good work!:thumbsup
I dont think he was hotdogging, fighters like to stick out there tongue or smile when they get hit hard to make it seem like they didnt get hurt, but taylor hurt kelly, kelly stuck his tongue out, then taylor caught him again and put him down with the follow up. kelly himself said taylor hits like a mule, he respects the power, it wasnt a lucky shot. i agree with everyone that says the rematch is 50/50, because i think theres more room to improve in the next fight for jermain.

[Skital]

Taylor punches harder than Pavlik?? Yeah, sure - that's why he couldn't knock out welterweights with shaky chins like Cory Spinks, right?? :patsch :lol:

Not saying he hits harder than Pavlik, but it was pretty obvious Taylor was going to land bigger and harder clean shots on Pavlik's chin than on Cory's due to styles. Maybe that has something to do with why he couldn't KO Cory, Cory is harder to hit with shots like that.

[Jose FM]

i dont dissagree that pavlik can beat taylor.. but he can still beat sturm in my opinion, he can still beat abraham, feel me?

so lets say who loses to pavlik again... if after his fight, he has some convincing wins over some fighters like duddy, or wright (although i dont wanna see that again).. then he gets a title shot with abraham, takes his title.. moves on too sturm, takes his title.. then his career would be relevant again, and i'd say his chances of beatin pavlik is 1 outta 3.. so goin by that, lucc might be on his side this time..

well all that's wishful thinkin, although i'm not a big taylor fan.. i just dont think you can count out a fighter like him, feel me?
Yeah but thats not saying much really, dem guys are regional fighters content with fighting scrubs and not actually wanting to fight an elite fighter.

[perfume]

So basically by everyone gathering...Pavlik can beat EVERYBODY he get in the ring with...

Let run down the people Pavlik can beat from 160-175:

Hopkins
Taylor
Abraham
Sturm
Calzaghe
Kessler
Bute
Lee
Lorenzo
Griffin
Lacy
Dawson
Green
Wright
Trindad
Jones
Tarver
Adiancu
Froch


Yes he can beat them all because all his fans say so, plus he the best boxer in the world as well as the hardest puncher in boxing.

Why should Pavlik even continue to box since no one on that list stands a chance against hjim, I mean according to the judges, he completely slaughter Taylor and kept Taylor from winning any rounds in their fight.


Pavlik is GOD!!!

[MrStayman]

So basically by everyone gathering...Pavlik can beat EVERYBODY he get in the ring with...

Let run down the people Pavlik can beat from 160-175:

Hopkins
Taylor
Abraham
Sturm
Calzaghe
Kessler
Bute
Lee
Lorenzo
Griffin
Lacy
Dawson
Green
Wright
Trindad
Jones
Tarver
Adiancu
Froch


Yes he can beat them all, plus he's the best boxer in the world as well as the hardest puncher in boxing.

No one on that list stands a chance against hjim, I mean he completely slaughtered Taylor and kept Taylor from winning any rounds in their fight.


Pavlik is GOD!!!Finally you are starting to see the truth.

[BoxingGuru]

Worst thread in history and if Taylor wins you'll never see the fucking idiiot again who started this thread. It's happened 100 times before here, it will happen again.

[paulfv]

I guess that means no sig bet, huh BoxingGuru?

Jose -- Thanks, man. Just keeping it real, you know? Keep up with your great posting. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on my thread.

Again, it is a ....

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************PAVLIK BY KO/TKO**********

[andyZOR]

Pfft.... No way Pavlik beats Dawson.

In all seriousness... Diaconu destroys Pavlik.

[booradley]

Actually I think Jack Leow said everything that needs to be said about Pavlik fighting Taylor: "This is a basic fuckin' fight. Jab-jab, right hand; simple." That's about all Pavlik needs to know to beat Taylor. Taylor does not improve. Pavlik has gotten consistently better over his last 6 fights. As for all the Taylor fans who keep jabbering about JT being ahead on the cards; get a grip; score cards do not fucking matter when you have to ask, "Did I get knocked out!" Kelly has 32 fights. Twenty-nine times the score cards were irrelevant. In fact, no one has gone the distance with Pavlik since November 27, 2004 when Kelly fought journeyman Ross Thompson (26-9-2) and won a near total shut out in an 8 rounder. Thompson never fought again. Someone in Taylor's camp is making really bad decisions, or at least failing to prevent JT from making bad choices. Taylor fought a career defining fight, and still got ktfo! Going for the immediate rematch is great for Pavlik because he will redeem himself after acting like a dumb ass in the 2nd round. It may ruin Taylor's psyche permanently.

Boo

[nezy37]

I should have seen it comeing. JT always goes straight back until his back is up against the ropes or he is in the corner. With a guy like Pavlik it is only a mater of time before JT gets caught and KTFO

[jsimps]

According to the punch stats JT overall landed 4 more shots than Kelly. Of which is questionable, a lot of shots were going off his gloves. Kelly threw over a 100+ more punches. In almost every round, Kelly hit JT with a jab/ right hand that put JT into the corner. Here is how I saw the fight.

RD. 1 10-9; Pavlik, busier, agressor
RD. 2 10-8; Taylor, obvious
RD. 3 10-9; Pavlik, busier, agressor
RD. 4 10-9; Pavlik, busier, agressor
RD. 5 10-9; Taylor, more accurate, busier
RD. 6 10-9; Pavlik, busier, agressor
RD. 7 KTFO; Pavlik

[paulfv]

According to the punch stats JT overall landed 4 more shots than Kelly. Of which is questionable, a lot of shots were going off his gloves. Kelly threw over a 100+ more punches. In almost every round, Kelly hit JT with a jab/ right hand that put JT into the corner. Here is how I saw the fight.

RD. 1 10-9; Pavlik, busier, agressor
RD. 2 10-8; Taylor, obvious
RD. 3 10-9; Pavlik, busier, agressor
RD. 4 10-9; Pavlik, busier, agressor
RD. 5 10-9; Taylor, more accurate, busier
RD. 6 10-9; Pavlik, busier, agressor
RD. 7 KTFO; Pavlik


Nice card, jsimps. I personally had it 3-3 going into the 7th, but I know others who had it as you did.

How ANY judge could have had it 5 points up for Taylor based on your punchstat #'s (and common sense) is totally beyond me.

And that is one of the main reasons JT was an HBO/DiBella fraud -- incredibly bad and biased judging like what Pavlik was in for had he not KTFO of Taylor.

Nice post. :good:thumbsup:good

[paulfv]

Another pic from the fight:

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[booklord]

Taylor can't go hunting for the KO
-----------------------------------
Pavlik now knows Taylor's handspeed and now respects his power. It'll be much harder for Taylor to hurt Pavlik than before. If he tries and fails, he'll tire out and Pavlik's relentless attack will crush him.

Taylor must block the jab
-----------------------------------
If I were his trainer I'd stick Taylor in the ring with a light heavyweight sparring partner with a longer reach and have that sparring partner jab Taylor until he figured out how to block it.

Taylor can't let Pavlik control the pace of the fight
-----------------------------------------------------------
With Pavlik's greater stanima and workrate, Pavlik controls the pace of every fight he's in. Taylor with his stanima problems can't let that happen. He has to use defense to block Pavlik's attacks and fight at a pace more suited for himself.

Taylor must use his speed to win rounds
-----------------------------------------------
Concentrating on defense is not enough if you sacrifice offense to do it. Taylor's biggest advantage over Pavlik is his handspeed. After blocking a bunch of punches from Pavlik, Taylor needs to use his speed to hit Pavlik with punches of his own to win the rounds. The punches don't need to land clean, but they do need to land.


If Taylor follows the above advice he CAN beat Pavlik in a decision victory. Will it happen? Unlikely. I just don't see Taylor as able to improve himself that much defensively. In addition Pavlik will be a tougher opponent the second time around, as he know nows Taylor's strengths(speed) and weaknesses(stanima). Ultimately I see Pavlik breaking through Taylor's defense and forcing Taylor to fight at his pace. Once that happens unless Taylor gets really lucky ( Any guy with Taylor's strength and speed can always get lucky ) its not a matter of if Pavlik will KO Taylor but when.

[marauder1999]

So basically by everyone gathering...Pavlik can beat EVERYBODY he get in the ring with...

Let run down the people Pavlik can beat from 160-175:

Hopkins
Taylor
Abraham
Sturm
Calzaghe
Kessler
Bute
Lee
Lorenzo
Griffin
Lacy
Dawson
Green
Wright
Trindad
Jones
Tarver
Adiancu
Froch


Yes he can beat them all because all his fans say so, plus he the best boxer in the world as well as the hardest puncher in boxing.

Why should Pavlik even continue to box since no one on that list stands a chance against hjim, I mean according to the judges, he completely slaughter Taylor and kept Taylor from winning any rounds in their fight.


Pavlik is GOD!!!

You are an idiot.:hi:

[booradley]

According to the punch stats JT overall landed 4 more shots than Kelly. Of which is questionable, a lot of shots were going off his gloves. Kelly threw over a 100+ more punches. In almost every round, Kelly hit JT with a jab/ right hand that put JT into the corner. Here is how I saw the fight.

RD. 1 10-9; Pavlik, busier, agressor
RD. 2 10-8; Taylor, obvious
RD. 3 10-9; Pavlik, busier, agressor
RD. 4 10-9; Pavlik, busier, agressor
RD. 5 10-9; Taylor, more accurate, busier
RD. 6 10-9; Pavlik, busier, agressor
RD. 7 KTFO; Pavlik

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've watched the fight 6 times. That is a VERY GOOD score-card. You could make an argument for a couple of rounds that Pav won being even, but no way did Taylor win them. One of the reasons I do not like the immediate rematch idea is that I now have more respect for Taylor than ever, and I think he can stay in the mix for 2 or 3 more years, but NOT if Pavlik ruins his psyche. September 29th probably helped JT's marketing potential rather than hurt it. After a second loss to Pavlik, what is he suppose to do? Trust me, Pavlik / Taylor II will not be nearly as exciting as the first fight. I just can't see anything but a one sided beat-down followed by another unquestionable TKO or even a clean ko in 5 or 6, or else, JT jumps on his bike and rides around the ring while Pav stalks him followed by ko or tko in 10. Either way, JT gets a big pay day, but it will be his last one for quite awhile, maybe his last one ever. Right now he could move to 168, fight Miranda, who I think he can beat, and bang, he's right in the mix at 168. Fighting Pavlik immediately is just a bad move career wise.

Boo

[marauder1999]

Moving to 168 is a good idea--because I too think he can beat Miranda. Pavlik owns 160 now.

[paulfv]

I would really like to see Taylor fight Miranda. I think that could be a great fight.

[Bummy Davis]

I think Its the wrong fight for Taylor, extra weight could help Taylor but it could also help Pavlik...Taylor is better off building himself up again, Kelly knows he can Ko Taylor and Taylor will remember that, also kelly knows he got off the floor to win and that is in his MIND

[paulfv]

I think Its the wrong fight for Taylor, extra weight could help Taylor but it could also help Pavlik...Taylor is better off building himself up again, Kelly knows he can Ko Taylor and Taylor will remember that, also kelly knows he got off the floor to win and that is in his MIND

I totally agree. Excellent post. :good:thumbsup:good

[nrgetic]

A lot of people in this forum call Taylor a fraud which I think is pretty tragic. The fact that he fights all comers and is keen to jump back into the ring with the guy that beat the bejesus out of him is a credit to Taylor. He may well lose but so what - its about time people respected the guy!

[heidegger]

All he has to do is avoid the right hand and hell get an easy decision. Maybe easier said than done, but Pavlik seems like the sort of guy who you can do a bit of homework on and get around. Hes only got a couple of strengths, nullify them and hes yours. Taylor had to survive another 5 rounds. Not impossible.

[paulfv]

Avoiding the right hand shouldn't be so bad, except for two things:

1.

Jermain Taylor's defense is awful. It's one of the main reasons he isn't anywhere near the fighter he could be. Pavlik was hitting him with right hands from the start of the fight and if this is an immediate rematch, there is no way that JT will tighten up his defense enough to prevent that in the next fight.

2.

Jermain always, always, always tires in fights. It's a lot easier to dodge the right hand when you're fresh and you can move your legs. At some point during the fight, Taylor will slow down and he will get caught, hard. Just like De La Hoya, you can always count on Taylor to significantly slow down as a fight progresses.

When Taylor wears down, Pavlik will be able to land combinations and big shots like he did in the first fight. And then it's over for Taylor.

[Club Fighter]

Dude, this is boxing. Of courese he can beat Pavlik. Enuff said.

Perfect response to such a long-winded and ultimately incorrect post that begins this thread.

[paulfv]

Perfect response to such a long-winded and ultimately incorrect post that begins this thread.

I'll be looking for you when Taylor gets KO'd again.

As I've said and will repeat:

Take it to the bank, 1000-star play, IT IS A MORTAL....


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

that Taylor is not only going to lose, but once again, be KTFO by Pavlik.

This is one of the easiest picks I've ever made, even easier than picking Pavlik by KO/TKO the first time around. If Taylor and/or his management is stupid enough to do this immediate rematch, "Bad Decicions" is going to get siz-erved like you cannot believe.

"LOCK...IT...UP!!!!"

[lillarry]

Yeah it might ruin his career . . . but the fact that the guy still wants it . . . only shows Taylor ought to be praised.

Isn't that what you fucki'n haters like? :think

Now shut the fuck up . . . and give the guy some respect.

The truth is . . . you people are not fan of the sports but merely NUTHUGGERS or HATERS. Bunch of chicken shits! :yep

Man you aint never lied. This has got to be the quote of the year:good

[RonnieHornschuh]

taylor will win this fight, he will keep the distance and win by ud.

[marauder1999]

Man you aint never lied. This has got to be the quote of the year:good

There u are Lilarry---looks like u are back from talking all your shit about taylor going to whoop pavliks ass. How did that go for you? Love your Avatar!! Looks like you lost a bet huh?

[liljp361]

If he gets knocked out again it could very well...

[alex-boxer42]

I believe his managment team has lost faith in taylor so they want to cash out on one more big money fight with pavlik. Hopefully he wins they are thinking but Im geussing they dont have enough faith in him to regain some confidence and be a super middlewieght champ. If you think about it that way, it makes perfect sense. Russ Anber explained it on IN THIS CORNER.

EDIT: Taylor is prbly done, I dont think hell ever be the same fighter anyway, and hell never beat Pavlik, barring some kind of freak injury or kelly swallows his tongue, he way too tough for Jermain.

[lillarry]

There u are Lilarry---looks like u are back from talking all your shit about taylor going to whoop pavliks ass. How did that go for you? Love your Avatar!! Looks like you lost a bet huh?

I took the month off bet. To be fair I never said anything negative about Pavlik and have full respect for him. Just had full confidence in Taylor but the better man won. Now you have to admit that it was a competitive fight that could of went either way. Dont act like the second round never happened.The next fight to me is a toss up as well. Both fighters are far from elite and it will come down to endurance :bbb

[RealIzm]

I gained a new respect for Taylor after the Pavlik fight. Let's face it he fought better against Pavlik than he fought in his previous 3 fights combined. I'm sure Taylor learned alot about himself. However Kelly Pavlik learned alot about himself as well as Taylor. It will be another KO for Pavlik. No matter what Taylor at this stage won't put his left hand up and won't ever put his left hand up all this spells is WHIPLASH and another nap for Taylor.