about Creatine

[silvy_chris]

herd about this stuff in P.E Studies at school and i dont realy no much about it. did sum research and its all on body building sites and its all about how good it is so its very bias articles/opinons. Does any one take this? is it just like a supliment ( like masushi) or is it not adviced coz its the shit body builders (coz i dont wanna take sumthin that is like a legalized stroid lol). just any info would b good

[silvy_chris]

dont worry guys, just found sumthin on it... sounds like steroids to me so not going anywhere near it

" Unsubstantiated side effects sometimes attributed to creatine use include increased aggressiveness, anxiety, acne, male breast formation (gynecomastia), a reduction in penis size, hair loss (men) and body hair growth (women) "

[viru§™]

Creatine is produced naturally in the body. As a boxer I don't think you'll need any, it'll make you about 3-5lbs heavier due to water retension and it's main purpose is for weight lifting.

[T.C.W]

Take up boxing and forget this body building rubbish, hard work in the gym with no drugs or bullshit and you will smash these muscle heads in 2 seconds flat.

[chinachin_76]

You don't need Creatine and all those bogus supplements. Train hard, eat nutritiously and your body will be better off.

[silvy_chris]

Take up boxing and forget this body building rubbish, hard work in the gym with no drugs or bullshit and you will smash these muscle heads in 2 seconds flat.

haha nah man i box but havnt started competitivy coz of parents so wen im 18 n finished skool boxing is @ the top of my priority list, its my life. Its just im leaner than id like 2 b and need 2 get bigger. And not to much coz i still need to stay tall for my weight. Like hitman herns was tall for his weight and still had the power.. just need a combination of both. Just need that extra zing in my punches

[knockout]

herd about this stuff in P.E Studies at school and i dont realy no much about it. did sum research and its all on body building sites and its all about how good it is so its very bias articles/opinons. Does any one take this? is it just like a supliment ( like masushi) or is it not adviced coz its the shit body builders (coz i dont wanna take sumthin that is like a legalized stroid lol). just any info would b goodWell its not stroids but its safe to use though if your looking looking to bulk up and add some strength you should use it but give it some time, when i was using it i was squated 210 and every week i squated 10 more pounds.

[knockout]

herd about this stuff in P.E Studies at school and i dont realy no much about it. did sum research and its all on body building sites and its all about how good it is so its very bias articles/opinons. Does any one take this? is it just like a supliment ( like masushi) or is it not adviced coz its the shit body builders (coz i dont wanna take sumthin that is like a legalized stroid lol). just any info would b goodWell its not stroids but its safe to use though if your looking looking to bulk up and add some strength you should use it but give it some time, when i was using it i was squated 210 and every week i squated 10 more pounds.

[watch4sharx]

You found unsubstantiated side effects. Last time I checked, there were no proven side effects to taking creatine. What it does, basically, is when your muscles rip, it fills in those rips with water. It basically makes water flow to your muscles faster than normal. It slows your muscles down somewhat too, because they are partially water now, instead of dry muscle fibre. In boxing, you want your muscles to be as light as possible, so they move as fast as possible.

Sounds like you have time to build your muscles, so just do it without the creatine by lifting weights properly without any supplements. Your body will benefit more from the slower build up.

[davros]

creatine is an amino acid...produced naturally by the body. It is also found in red meats such as steak etc. It is non-toxic and is safe to use in the long term, as scientific studies show there is little long term side effects and if there is..discontinue use. Gains of 10lbs of lean muscle mass in 6 weeks of strength training have been reported in excess of water-retention. If you want to know more i suggest you look at any sports nutrition website.

[littleguy]

Creatine has NOT been shown to be safe in the long run. According to the Mayo Clinic, it is unknown what long term effect Creatine has on the body, and it is also unknown what the correct "dosage" is. There have been some studies, but nothing conclusive.

Just because Creatine naturally occurs in the body does not make it safe. Testosterone and Human Growth Hormone are also produced in the body but that doesn't make them safe either.

Creatine is a shortcut and you will pay for it at some point in your life. Save your money, buy a few cans of tuna, and bang out an extra hundred pushups a day instead.

[Smith]

Just use Glutamine pal

[viru§™]

Creatine has NOT been shown to be safe in the long run. According to the Mayo Clinic, it is unknown what long term effect Creatine has on the body, and it is also unknown what the correct "dosage" is. There have been some studies, but nothing conclusive.
This is the reason I don't take the stuff. I'm sure steroids were said to be 100% safe at one point to.

[knockout]

Creatine is good but protien should be the main suppment you should be taking if your gonna be pumping iron.

[Marvelous Marcum]

This is the reason I don't take the stuff. I'm sure steroids were said to be 100% safe at one point to.
If taken properly steroids can do MUCH more good than bad. No, I'm not being sarcastic.

[littleguy]

If taken properly steroids can do MUCH more good than bad. No, I'm not being sarcastic.
I assume that you're talking about taking steroids that have been prescribed by a medical doctor. In which case, yes, they can do good.

However, if you so much as possess illegally obtained steroids in the US, you are guilty of a felony under federal law, and probably also under the law of whatever state you live in. And the penalties get worse for those who deal in the drugs. You're looking at at least one year in prison.

Plus, if you take steroids under any circumstances under than as prescribed by a doctor, you deserve exactly what you get. There are probably worse ways to f**k up your body, but offhand I can't think of any.

And yeah I've seen all the literature and listened to all the bodybuilders explain why getting a peak on the bicep is worth the elevated cholestorol, high blood pressure, liver damage, abcesses, heart problems, shrunken testicles, mood swings, etc etc oh yeah and possible death and I personally don't think its worth it.

[Marvelous Marcum]

And yeah I've seen all the literature and listened to all the bodybuilders explain why getting a peak on the bicep is worth the elevated cholestorol, high blood pressure, liver damage, abcesses, heart problems, shrunken testicles, mood swings, etc etc oh yeah and possible death and I personally don't think its worth it.

Do us both a favor and just watch.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[littleguy]

I saw the show live. So what? Bryan Gumbel finds a couple of steroid monkeys and a renegade doctor who support the recreational use of steroids and suddenly steroids are safe?

First up, steroids are illegal. That means that you have to get them on the black market. Which means that the product is unregulated and you can be injecting all kinds of shit into your body. Bryan Gumbel may be okay with that but I'm not.

Secondly, when you let a healthy adult male to inject this crap, all the high schoolers start doing as well. Its practically an epidemic right now. And those kids are getting hurt.

And the idiots at the American Medical Association (which is a political organization that doesn't necessarily reflect the views of the average doctor who has a modicum of common sense) have now realized that it may have made a mistake when it originally opposed the criminalization of steroids and is now expressing concern over the rampant use of steroids among, yeah you guessed it, high schoolers.

You don't need to be a mental giant to see that steroids have the potential to kill. Yes you can follow a strict regimen of cycling and have your blood work checked weekly and have the right genetics and do just fine. Maybe the gym rat next to you or the kid down the street isn't so lucky.

[Marvelous Marcum]

You don't need to be a mental giant to see that steroids have the potential to kill. Yes you can follow a strict regimen of cycling and have your blood work checked weekly and have the right genetics and do just fine.

What you said about the highschoolers is 100% correct, that cannot be argued. What they are doing isn't safe.

I personally don't see them having the potential to kill. I could see a few long term side effects if high doses are used on a regular basis. But if you are safe, if you do have blood checked regularly, you do use proper amounts, and know what will work well with what, you should be fine. Sure, some people may get gyno, but that can always be fixed or prevented.

[silvy_chris]

im staying away from the stuff. fukn hate people that cheat and , from the info given, would consider this pretty much a steriod. im just gonna do it the old fashion way.

[T.J.]

dont worry guys, just found sumthin on it... sounds like steroids to me so not going anywhere near it

" Unsubstantiated side effects sometimes attributed to creatine use include increased aggressiveness, anxiety, acne, male breast formation (gynecomastia), a reduction in penis size, hair loss (men) and body hair growth (women) "

ok can i please note here that nothing in creatine can make you develop gynecomastia...do u even know what that is? its bitch tits and "gyno" occurs because of all the raised testosterone levels in your body when taking steroids or pro hormones may turn into the form of estrogen...if u do not take a PCT (post cycle therapy) then all those raised test levels can turn into estrogen which lead to them....aggresivenss? are u kidding me? aggressivness in creatine is what u make it...thinking you are a badass because u put on 10 ilbs of WATER weight is not aggressivness...thats all in someones head...anxiety...there is nothing in the form of creatine to alter your hormone levels...NOTHING...a reduction in penis size is a myth.....your penis has three large veins in it....if anything it might make it bigger due to the fact that most pre workout supps and creatine have some form of arginine in them...arginine is a vaso dialator for the veins and arteries to get more blood flow to them...and hair loss is another form of of a pro steroid or steroid side effects...listen bro...creatine is naturally occuring in the body and is also in the form of some meats...before u make any judgments on what creatine side effects are i suggest u know what the shit is before u take it...its nothing more than a water retainer....so all of that shit above is side effects from a steroid or pro hormone...not creatine...

[Johnboy2007]

Balanced healthy diet is the way to go i reckon.

[average_joe]

dont worry guys, just found sumthin on it... sounds like steroids to me so not going anywhere near it

" Unsubstantiated side effects sometimes attributed to creatine use include increased aggressiveness, anxiety, acne, male breast formation (gynecomastia), a reduction in penis size, hair loss (men) and body hair growth (women) "


:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl bullshit. Don't believe everything you read.

[viru§™]

Balanced healthy diet is the way to go i reckon.

Yup.

[Kenny]

im staying away from the stuff. fukn hate people that cheat and , from the info given, would consider this pretty much a steriod. im just gonna do it the old fashion way.

Creatine is not even remotely close or in the same ball park as a steroid hormone... Creatine is simply a protein and has NO hormonal structures or molecules to it at all.

Anabolic Steroids, for the sake of discussion, are simply male/female sex hormones. Corticosteroids are not even close to the same thing and are NOT sex hormones...they are adrenal hormones. Corticosteroids are the ones prescribed when you have asthma or a bronchial problem or when you have severe inflamation.

THEY (corticosteroids) cause a host of problems including wasting of tissue (muscle and bone).

Anabolic steroids and specifically testosterone, are similar to the female hormone estrogen...they are both sex hormones and like any other substance on earth have side effects. Even water has side effects. However, the side effects of hormone use in adult males is nothing like the government leads you to believe.

I know many people that have been using anabolic steroids since the 60's and have no side effects. They DO have a much higher quality of life then others their age ( 60's, 70's) and still hit the gym regularly, have great relationships, have little depression and an huge increase in vigor and feeling of well being than their male equivilants that do not use hormones regularly.

Decreasing hormone levels as we age WILL have negative effects on ones health, feeling of wellbeing and over all productivity. If you question that simply look at two seniors walkiing through the parking lot at the store, inevitably the FEMALE senior that began hormone replacement therapy when she began feeling depressed at age 40 will be WALKING the senior male that simply shrugged off feeling liek shit as a side effect of working alot and basically "toughed" it out...... Today, many years later they suffer and the female senior feels like a youthful woman...and phsiologically, she is compared to her husband.

Anabolic steroid ABUSE by teens is ridiculous, however if you think that making them difficult to obtain will curtail it your crazy. People will find a way and of course the way is going to be alot more dangerous than simply going to a doctor would be because of the black market.

What we need is EDUCATION..... in the schools, gyms etc. Education will TEACH the teens physiology, endocrinology and biology. If they LEARN that their testosterone level is already over a thousand and by administering exo test they will shut down their endo test production they will reconsider. Their testosterone levels are already high enough to recover and progress. However, when they get into their late 20's early 30's their free test levels will decrease and then they can look to nutritional/medical ways to help it along.

People talk about what is "fair" and "cheating" so I ask you, is it fair that a 45 year old Randy Coture with a girls free test level has an opponent that is 25 years old with a high normal test level? Randy can't recover, has limited energy and a lowered sense of well being; the 25 year old has limitless energy an aggressive sense of well being and a high recovery rate that allows him to train 2 times per day.

I don't think so! I think Randy/ Evander and whoever else is in sports should be able to "supplement" their testosterone level to a high NORMAL level (NOT beyond) so that there NOW is a level playing field.

Aging only physiologically occurs when genes say so and when hormone levels decline.... WE, as athletes, humans, americans should be able to PREVENT that and continue on with our lives as productively as we see fit. To make it a CRIMINAL ACT to use and or replace a male hormone, while women can walk into any clinic and use/replace their steroid hormones is OUTRAGEOUS!

In the future the use of GH, testosterone will increase as americans learn, through research, that proper levels of these hormones make you feel better and dramatically increase your quality of life.

I'm 39 and can out train most of my 20 year old friends, but when the day comes that my hormone level is effecting my wellbeing and my recuperative abilities you can bet damn well I will head to the doctor and LEGALLY get on hormone therapy just like the MILLIONS of americans that are doing it today.

EDUCATION...... The media is FULL OF LIES and half truths...teach yourself instead of listening to what you read, especially when the media outlet has an agenda.

If the government cared about americans well being, pain killers and muscle relaxers would be off the shelf or only administered when fit, smoking would be banned as would alcohol...these cause more death than any other drug out there. Viagra/cialis killed more americans in the past year than steroids have since they were developed in the 40's. last I checked alcohol killed more americans than cancer last year...... yet you can still go have a beer. Please, tell it to someone that doesn't actually think with a brain because any logiocal, intelligent person knows other wise.

Back to training!

[goldenboy]

When i was taking creatine i definately felt more aggresive and anxious, and after only a few days my face broke out with acne.. its only my opinion but i wouldnt recommend it.

[elTerrible]

creatine wont hurt you in the short term. It isnt a hormone and doesnt alter hormone levels. However, you dont really need it for boxing or for just someone who works out every now and then.

I tried it before and It did help me put on weight fast. The downside was I got worse stretchmarks, i think the extra swelling from the water retention caused the stretchmarks so I dont use it anymore. I dont really work out enough to need it anyway.

[El Puma]

Cycling N.O xplode rocked for me personally.

[comebackkid]

i took creatine for a while, and i had problems with my stomach and had to go to the toilet a lot. I also had acne on my back all of the sudden. I heard from the doctor after i stopped taking it, that it's very bad for the kidneys , and that he doesn't understand why they sell it like it's nothing in the stores. I never take creatine anymore, i don't need it, i just eat my spinage ;)

[Dumi]

Wow, epic proportions of stupidity have been shown in this thread. Creatine's perfectly safe. 5g/day is about right. It's not even close to being anything like steroids. Eat some more tuna? Are you fucking kidding? Read a fucking nutrition book and stop posting crap. Some people respond to creatine, some don't. Bloating is usually caused by people not drinking enough water, despite their numerous protests. This is especially prevelant in boxers who like to do retarded things like go running all bundled up and just dehydrate themselves. If you properly read up on creatine you'd know why this is so fucking stupid. Better yet, read an endocrinology book. You really are a fucking idiot if you think creatine's a steroid and bad for you yet you see nothing wrong with cutting 10lbs in a week or 2 before a fight and think it's all fat and water weight. Some of you need to learn to research properly for yourself instead of being mindless sheep following each other. Just another case of the blind leading the blind. Replace the word blind with utter idiot in this case.

[El Puma]

Wow, epic proportions of stupidity have been shown in this thread. Creatine's perfectly safe. 5g/day is about right. It's not even close to being anything like steroids. Eat some more tuna? Are you fucking kidding? Read a fucking nutrition book and stop posting crap. Some people respond to creatine, some don't. Bloating is usually caused by people not drinking enough water, despite their numerous protests. This is especially prevelant in boxers who like to do retarded things like go running all bundled up and just dehydrate themselves. If you properly read up on creatine you'd know why this is so fucking stupid. Better yet, read an endocrinology book. You really are a fucking idiot if you think creatine's a steroid and bad for you yet you see nothing wrong with cutting 10lbs in a week or 2 before a fight and think it's all fat and water weight. Some of you need to learn to research properly for yourself instead of being mindless sheep following each other. Just another case of the blind leading the blind. Replace the word blind with utter idiot in this case.:good

[comebackkid]

are you in love with creatine? watch your language , no need to be an asshole and insult me or anyone else, you could have made your point on a different manner.

[littleguy]

Wow, epic proportions of stupidity have been shown in this thread. Creatine's perfectly safe. 5g/day is about right. It's not even close to being anything like steroids. Eat some more tuna? Are you fucking kidding? Read a fucking nutrition book and stop posting crap. Some people respond to creatine, some don't. Bloating is usually caused by people not drinking enough water, despite their numerous protests. This is especially prevelant in boxers who like to do retarded things like go running all bundled up and just dehydrate themselves. If you properly read up on creatine you'd know why this is so fucking stupid. Better yet, read an endocrinology book. You really are a fucking idiot if you think creatine's a steroid and bad for you yet you see nothing wrong with cutting 10lbs in a week or 2 before a fight and think it's all fat and water weight. Some of you need to learn to research properly for yourself instead of being mindless sheep following each other. Just another case of the blind leading the blind. Replace the word blind with utter idiot in this case.

Dude, you're an imbecile. Worse, you're a arrogant imbecile. Go to the Mayo clinic website and read about Creatine. Then, if you then still want to preach the virtues of Creatine, explain first why one of the most respected medical research facilities in the world is wrong

[Doomas]

Dude, you're an imbecile. Worse, you're a arrogant imbecile. Go to the Mayo clinic website and read about Creatine. Then, if you then still want to preach the virtues of Creatine, explain first why one of the most respected medical research facilities in the world is wrong
Show us direct links, I failed to find anything bad about it there.

[Koa]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

It might help you. Thing is, there really isn't a ton of information out there about it.. I remember taking the stuff when I was around 19, it helped me gain some weight and strength during a time when I really had paleued, and was having trouble gaining any type of weight. IMO it works, problem is, you wont know the long term harmful effects, if there are any..

Try and be healthy.. Take a good multivitamin, I take Balanced Essentials because it really takes care of a broad spectrum of daily needs and has high bio availability.. [Only registered and activated users can see links]

I'm getting a little older and have a hard time with milks.. I started taking Oryx Goat protein and I love it. [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Lots of proteins out there have more protein per serving, thing is a lot of the time your body just cant absorb that much in a sitting..

You want to gain the right weight. Eat loads of proteins (meats, eggs, shakes, chicken, fish) Mix it up to keep your diet interesting.. I also suggest eating avocado's and tofu/soy products as veggies, it ups your protein intake overall and has fibre..

Eat carbs and sugars for pre workout.. Minimal carbs before you sleep, no more than 20 grams of carbs before bed along with a protein shake, or two eggs, or something like straight cottage cheese with just a little fruit.. You will gain the right weight and wont regret it.

Try to guage your protein intake.. Just over 1-1.5 grams of protein per your body weight, per day.. If you take in more, yo will probably just poop it out and waste money. Its really difficult to assimilate 2 grams of protein per lb, per day, no matter what anybody says.

So great veggies.. Beets, Carrots (both high in sugar, and good for energy, great in juice). Arugula, Broccoli, spinach.

Fruits.. PAPAYA!!! Papaya is probably the best fruit you could have in a smoothie, great enzymes for digestion and aid in recovery after workouts.

Kiwi or Banana. I like to mix them up for potassium.

blueberries or blackberries, packed with anti oxidants.

I do this in a smoothie, with lowfat greek yogurt..

Avocado's are great.. Has the right types of fats and relatively high in protein for a fruit. Very nutricious, but shouldn't eat loads of them.

A good fish oil supplement, pill.

Your pretty much set.

[littleguy]

Show us direct links, I failed to find anything bad about it there.

That's because there isn't anything "bad" about it there. No one in this thread said that the Mayo Clinic thinks Creatine is "bad." What the Mayo Clinic does say is that it is unknown what long term effect Creatine has on the body, and it is also unknown what the correct "dosage" is.

So the each time one of these dimwit Creatine junkies starts mouthing off about how Creatine is good for you, I simply remind him/her that they are full of crap.

[welshwonder]

premiership footballers in britain take creatine and it supposedly does them the world of good, at the end of the day the body creates it naturally, if you are on it in cycles it will give you more energy as, the bodys energy system is the pcr system ( phosphocreatine) which the creatine tops up. if used in excess you could experience kidney failure due to the pressure the kidney is put under, but this is an extreme. britains sporting governing bodies consider it perfectly healthy, only time will prove whether they are right ir wrong.

[Marvelous Marcum]

That's because there isn't anything "bad" about it there. No one in this thread said that the Mayo Clinic thinks Creatine is "bad." What the Mayo Clinic does say is that it is unknown what long term effect Creatine has on the body, and it is also unknown what the correct "dosage" is.

So the each time one of these dimwit Creatine junkies starts mouthing off about how Creatine is good for you, I simply remind him/her that they are full of crap.

First of all, stop with your childish name calling. Second, please try to learn at least a little about something before you start bitching little guy.

1) Creatine supplementation increases muscle strength and stamina and prevents joint stiffness in boys with muscular dystrophy, according to a study in Muscle & Nerve (2003;27:604–10). Wow, creatine helps with Muscular Dystrophy... but that couldn't mean that it's good for you now could it?

2) Creatine monohydrate (10 g daily for 5 days to 5 g daily for 5 days) was administered to patients with neuromuscular disease in a pilot study (Study 1; n = 81), followed by a single-blinded study (Study 2; n = 21). Body weight, handgrip, dorsiflexion, and knee extensor strength were measured before and after treatment. Creatine administration increased all measured indices in both studies. Short-term creatine monohydrate increased high-intensity strength significantly in patients with neuromuscular disease.PMID: 10078740 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Holy shit! Another study showing how it helps people out...


3) A 1996 study found that men with high cholesterol (more than 200 milligrams per deciliter of blood) lowered their numbers when taking creatine. The total cholesterol reduction wasn't dramatic--about 5 percent--but triglycerides and very-low-density cholesterol (the most dangerous kind) each went down more than 20 percent. Well I'll be damned, that also proves that it can help people.

The only thing you've been remotely correct about is the fact that Creatine has not proven to be safe for LONG TERM usage. However there was a 5 year study done, and would you like to know the negative side effects? Well, 3 girls gained a little weight, which I'm sure could have been directly correlated with their diets. Now PLEASE for the sake of all of us who have a clue what we're talking about, stop posting your mindless chatter.

[Doomas]

That's because there isn't anything "bad" about it there. No one in this thread said that the Mayo Clinic thinks Creatine is "bad." What the Mayo Clinic does say is that it is unknown what long term effect Creatine has on the body, and it is also unknown what the correct "dosage" is.

So the each time one of these dimwit Creatine junkies starts mouthing off about how Creatine is good for you, I simply remind him/her that they are full of crap.

So your saying that it has plenty of posstivie effects, and none "yet" known negetive (except that its bad for ppl who have kidney problems).
So all of this war against creatine usage is just that theres little knows long term effects ? One post to informe everyone should have been enough. Calling someone junkies just becouse they found out that creatine helps them is absurd.

[comebackkid]

it's bad for the kidneys, not with people who already have kidney problems., well also for them , but not only for people who already have problems

[scurlaruntings]

Creatine has NOT been shown to be safe in the long run. According to the Mayo Clinic, it is unknown what long term effect Creatine has on the body, and it is also unknown what the correct "dosage" is. There have been some studies, but nothing conclusive.

Just because Creatine naturally occurs in the body does not make it safe. Testosterone and Human Growth Hormone are also produced in the body but that doesn't make them safe either.

Creatine is a shortcut and you will pay for it at some point in your life. Save your money, buy a few cans of tuna, and bang out an extra hundred pushups a day instead.Thats nonsense.Yes creatine is produced in the body naturally along with Test and HGH but ALL are naturally occuring compounds in the body which are safe.If you abuse them then of course the results would be negative and counter productive.Either way Creatine is not the best substance for producing good muscle mass.Most tend to retain water more than anything else and it wont increase your hardness.

Its ironic that you suggest Tuna when fish is laden with creatine.Kind of contradicts your original statement which was false anyway.

[scurlaruntings]

it's bad for the kidneys, not with people who already have kidney problems., well also for them , but not only for people who already have problemsAny substance in copious amounts is bad for your kidneys as your kidneys have to flush the chemicals out.If your not drinking enough water you increase the toxins in your blood and the likelyhood that you will in future have liver and kidney problems.But this is merely speculative as each persons body is diffrent and reacts diffrently to stimulus.There isnt a hard and fast rule.

[comebackkid]

so what ur saying some people will have problems and some won't? I know that when you take creatine you have to drink a lot of water, a lot of people have told me this when i took it

[scurlaruntings]

ok can i please note here that nothing in creatine can make you develop gynecomastia...do u even know what that is? its bitch tits and "gyno" occurs because of all the raised testosterone levels in your body when taking steroids or pro hormones may turn into the form of estrogen...if u do not take a PCT (post cycle therapy) then all those raised test levels can turn into estrogen which lead to them....aggresivenss? are u kidding me? aggressivness in creatine is what u make it...thinking you are a badass because u put on 10 ilbs of WATER weight is not aggressivness...thats all in someones head...anxiety...there is nothing in the form of creatine to alter your hormone levels...NOTHING...a reduction in penis size is a myth.....your penis has three large veins in it....if anything it might make it bigger due to the fact that most pre workout supps and creatine have some form of arginine in them...arginine is a vaso dialator for the veins and arteries to get more blood flow to them...and hair loss is another form of of a pro steroid or steroid side effects...listen bro...creatine is naturally occuring in the body and is also in the form of some meats...before u make any judgments on what creatine side effects are i suggest u know what the shit is before u take it...its nothing more than a water retainer....so all of that shit above is side effects from a steroid or pro hormone...not creatine...Bitch tits occurs because depending on the steroid ingested it aromatizes naturally into female hormones.Because these drugs are so androgenic they dramtically decrease natural test production and increase the levels of test in your blood.Thus there is an unnatural imbalance between the female and male hormones in your blood.Once this occurs over long periods of abuse some guys can develop bitch tits.To be honest these days its rare.As this only occurs amonsgt guys who have no clue as to what there putting in there mouth.They simply go according to the normal supposition "steroids build muscles". Drugs like Tamoxifen are used side by side with the steroid hormones to combat this effect. Most of the effects you see written in casual articles on abuse are those that occur over long periods of time.IE months to years of abuse.It wont occur from doing a cycle for say 2-3 weeks.

[scurlaruntings]

so what ur saying some people will have problems and some won't? I know that when you take creatine you have to drink a lot of water, a lot of people have told me this when i took itComplaints on Creatine are rare and often a case of misinformation as this thread seems to be on reading through it.Creatine is good for stamina increasing energy levels and the supply of blood to your muscles.It wont do you any harm at all.Its not a hormone so you wont have any side effects from taking it for long periods of time.Although i wouldnt advise this as it promotes water retention.

It all depends on what your trying to achieve.Moderation is the key when it comes to supplements.I myself dont take any and prefer to have a hardcore workout regime incoperating lots of CV and heavyweights to keep my metabolism fast and it eat a shed load of fish and vegetables.Most of what i eat is complex and good carbs along with tons of proteins.Diet is the key to be honest.Too many quys get hooked on a quick fix.

[scurlaruntings]

What you said about the highschoolers is 100% correct, that cannot be argued. What they are doing isn't safe.

I personally don't see them having the potential to kill. I could see a few long term side effects if high doses are used on a regular basis. But if you are safe, if you do have blood checked regularly, you do use proper amounts, and know what will work well with what, you should be fine. Sure, some people may get gyno, but that can always be fixed or prevented.Steroids dont kill.Extreme cases of death are rare.The problem occurs when people stack too many diffrent drugs and compounds and this is where the issues occur.(including recreational drugs and alcohol) Theres only so many toxins your body can have in its blood at any given time and only so much your liver and kidneys can filter effectively before you see permanent or drastic results.In the vast majority of cases coming of a slew of drugs can reverse the effects.But theres normally some heart liver or kidney damage but these are rare and in most cases just hype and mis information.The bottom line is steroids are not dangerous.They commonly occur in medicines like Cortisone for Ezcema and even pain killers like NSAID`s which can contain small doses of steroids even though there non steriodal anti inflammatorys. The problems only ever occur from long term and pro longed abuse.Anyone who`s clued up about what they ingest will know what to do to prevent longterm damage.

[comebackkid]

your right, diet is the key. Altough when i took creatine i didn't felt any change in my energy level , i got tired from running to the toilet all the time. Creatine gives some people the runs

[scurlaruntings]

your right, diet is the key. Altough when i took creatine i didn't felt any change in my energy level , i got tired from running to the toilet all the time. Creatine gives some people the runsPersonally i think Creatine is overrated and a waste of time.

[comebackkid]

it's just mentally , i feel more stronger since i changed my diet and quit creatine

[Doomas]

I recently bought some creatine, just to see what its like. I skipped the whole loading phase and used it only before training, I noticed that my stamina improved slightly, and I could continue working out longer.
But one thing I didnt like, some veins poped out on my biceps, wich doesnt look very good...maby Ill stick to more natural stuff.

[viru§™]

I recently bought some creatine, just to see what its like. I skipped the whole loading phase and used it only before training, I noticed that my stamina improved slightly, and I could continue working out longer.
But one thing I didnt like, some veins poped out on my biceps, wich doesnt look very good...maby Ill stick to more natural stuff.

Creatine is natural.

[wayne3280]

Haven't seen anything on here about improved recovery times, which is why many athletes use it...

[littleguy]

First of all, stop with your childish name calling. Second, please try to learn at least a little about something before you start bitching little guy.

1) Creatine supplementation increases muscle strength and stamina and prevents joint stiffness in boys with muscular dystrophy, according to a study in Muscle & Nerve (2003;27:604–10). Wow, creatine helps with Muscular Dystrophy... but that couldn't mean that it's good for you now could it?

2) Creatine monohydrate (10 g daily for 5 days to 5 g daily for 5 days) was administered to patients with neuromuscular disease in a pilot study (Study 1; n = 81), followed by a single-blinded study (Study 2; n = 21). Body weight, handgrip, dorsiflexion, and knee extensor strength were measured before and after treatment. Creatine administration increased all measured indices in both studies. Short-term creatine monohydrate increased high-intensity strength significantly in patients with neuromuscular disease.PMID: 10078740 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Holy shit! Another study showing how it helps people out...


3) A 1996 study found that men with high cholesterol (more than 200 milligrams per deciliter of blood) lowered their numbers when taking creatine. The total cholesterol reduction wasn't dramatic--about 5 percent--but triglycerides and very-low-density cholesterol (the most dangerous kind) each went down more than 20 percent. Well I'll be damned, that also proves that it can help people.

The only thing you've been remotely correct about is the fact that Creatine has not proven to be safe for LONG TERM usage. However there was a 5 year study done, and would you like to know the negative side effects? Well, 3 girls gained a little weight, which I'm sure could have been directly correlated with their diets. Now PLEASE for the sake of all of us who have a clue what we're talking about, stop posting your mindless chatter.

First up, articles in muscle mags don't count - those guys would promote steroids if they thought that they could get away with it

Second, your 1996 study was for 5 days. Under controlled conditions and presumably monitored by medical personnel. For all the info you give it could have been sponsored by the Creatine manufacturers. I'm talking about teenagers buying the stuff in bulk and shovelling it down day after day

Third, I'm glad to hear that Creatine may lower cholestorol, although again you don't say who sponsored the study. What about long term damage to the liver, any word on that?

THe reason I go to the Mayo Clinic as a source is that its a respected medical institution, with no loyalty to the manufacturers. If you really think that that is "mindless chatter" then there's no reasoning with you. Stick to reading your muscle mags

[littleguy]

So your saying that it has plenty of posstivie effects, and none "yet" known negetive (except that its bad for ppl who have kidney problems).
So all of this war against creatine usage is just that theres little knows long term effects ? One post to informe everyone should have been enough. Calling someone junkies just becouse they found out that creatine helps them is absurd.


No dude, I'm not saying it has plenty of positive effects. What i'm saying is that no one knows what the long term effect is. And anyone who comes on here and says that Creatine is safe is guessing

There's a lot of talk out there about this stuff. Some people swear by it, others think its a waste of time. I don't know one way or the other. I don't care. I always trained natural anyway. What I do know is that the medical profession hasn't yet decided whether its safe in the long term. Hope that's clear enough for you

[cheech]

THe new creatine does not create water weight.

[littleguy]

The bottom line is steroids are not dangerous.They commonly occur in medicines like Cortisone for Ezcema and even pain killers like NSAID`s which can contain small doses of steroids even though there non steriodal anti inflammatorys. The problems only ever occur from long term and pro longed abuse.Anyone who`s clued up about what they ingest will know what to do to prevent longterm damage.
I'm going to have to rain on your parade too, dude. You're confusing androgenic steroids (testosterone et al) with corticosteroids (the stuff you find in creams for jock itch and the like.) Androgenic steroids are produced from or mimic testosterone - the male sex hormone. Corticosteroids are related to cortisol, which is a completely different hormone although both are produced by the adrenal gland.

As for your statement that the problems/dangers only result from prolonged and long term use, you're dreaming. I'm not going to argue this one though. Anyone on this board who advocates steroid use is beyond reasoning with

[Kenny]

I'm going to have to rain on your parade too, dude. You're confusing androgenic steroids (testosterone et al) with corticosteroids (the stuff you find in creams for jock itch and the like.) Androgenic steroids are produced from or mimic testosterone - the male sex hormone. Corticosteroids are related to cortisol, which is a completely different hormone although both are produced by the adrenal gland.

As for your statement that the problems/dangers only result from prolonged and long term use, you're dreaming. I'm not going to argue this one though. Anyone on this board who advocates steroid use is beyond reasoning with

You are "beyond reasoning with", Little guy.

I've been in and around gyms since 1982, trained as a professional athlete and have been friends, gym mates with many pro athletes and gym goers thaty have used steroids as far back as 40 years ago and guess what??? They are FINE!! Not only fine, but the ones that have continued to live a health and fitness related lifestyle are in AMAZING shape and condition, some as old as 70 years old..and they used steroids.

In this article below MLB pitcher, Tom House of the Atlanta Braves and team mate of Hank Arrons) describes the 60's and 70's era where EVERYONE used steroids. They are faaaar from new, Little guy and this (21 century) is NOT the true steroid era. that would have to be the 70's, 80's when no one tested and everyone used. Today they still do use them and always will, but they test and it makes it a bit more challenging but not impossible.
.............................................................................................

Former pitcher Tom House describes past steroid use
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Former major league pitcher Tom House used steroids during his career and said performance-enhancing drugs were widespread in baseball in the 1960s and 1970s, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Tuesday.
House, perhaps best known for catching Hank Aaron's 715th home run ball in 1974 in the Atlanta Braves' bullpen, said he and several teammates used amphetamines, human growth hormone and "whatever steroid" they could find in order to keep up with the competition.

"I pretty much popped everything cold turkey," House said. "We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s, when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding."

House, a former pitching coach with the Texas Rangers and co-founder of the National Pitching Association near San Diego, is one of the first players to describe steroid use as far back as the 1960s.

He was drafted in 1967 by the Braves and pitched eight seasons for Atlanta, Boston and Seattle, finishing his career with a 29-23 record and 3.79 ERA.

House, 58, estimated that six or seven pitchers per team were at least experimenting with steroids or human growth hormone. He said players talked about losing to opponents using more effective drugs.

"We didn't get beat, we got out-milligrammed," he said. "And when you found out what they were taking, you started taking them."

House said he gained almost 30 pounds while using steroids, blaming the extra weight for contributing to knee problems. He said the drugs helped improve recovery time and conditioning but did not add velocity to his fastball.

"I tried everything known to man to improve my fastball, and it still didn't go faster than 82 miles per hour," House said. "I was a failed experiment."

"I'd like to say we were smart, but we didn't know what was going on," he said. "We were at the tail end of a generation that wasn't afraid to ingest anything.
...............................................................................

Do yourself some good and research. Google testosterone and healing, testosterone and aging, low testosterone and aging, Growth hormone and aging, growth hormone and injury rehab, growth hormone and fractures, growth hormone and preventing joint replacement.

You will learn lots and lets see how "beyond reasoning" you become then.

In ABUSE steroids, can have negative effects on blood pressure, blood lipid profiles, but the things like liver damage were from steroid hormones that were 17 alpha alkalated, NOT injectable testosterone or other commonly used AMERICAN hormones.

Cortico steroids are FAAAR more dangerous then any sex hormone steroid could ever be. They destroy bone, increase cortisol and have a number of health effects (negative). Please do not compare the sex hormone testosterone to cortico steroids.

The number one problem the media is having with their fight against males using male hormones is that they can not find people who have had true life threatening damage from them. If you searched for people and death with any other FDA approved drug such as, pain killers, muscle relaxers, anti depressants, asprin...even viagra you can find SOLID cases of DEATH...the same is not true with steroids.

People say, "owe chris benoit killed his family"...that is ridiculous. Thousands of cases of people killing their family every year and guess what? NONE used steroids...they are all just INSANE...like chris benoit. Also, of the millions of people that use steroids (entertainers, athletes, business people, dads and moms), how many kill their family?

THINK ABOUT IT......and think for your self and stop listen to the nonsense on the tv.

I think Emerson once said, if you don't read the news paper you are uninformed; if you DO read the news paper you are MIS informed.

I believe that is true.

education will prevent youngsters from steroid use, not news articles.

[littleguy]

Who's your supplier, Kenny? Maybe we can get some scumbag dealer off the street, at least this thread will have accomplished something

[scurlaruntings]

I'm going to have to rain on your parade too, dude. You're confusing androgenic steroids (testosterone et al) with corticosteroids (the stuff you find in creams for jock itch and the like.) Androgenic steroids are produced from or mimic testosterone - the male sex hormone. Corticosteroids are related to cortisol, which is a completely different hormone although both are produced by the adrenal gland.

As for your statement that the problems/dangers only result from prolonged and long term use, you're dreaming. I'm not going to argue this one though. Anyone on this board who advocates steroid use is beyond reasoning withIm not confusing them in the slightest.There both created as you rightly said by the same glands. The discussion from what i noted was about steroids. My intention wasnt to break it down into its derivatives as because as i already mentioned all steroids are not the same. IE Equipose and Dianobol are both steroids but are diffrent hormones and used for diffrent effects.

As for your assertions on the dangers its hogwash.Theres not one person on this planet who`s going to die from steroids or suffer severe side effects from one 2/3 weekly cycle. Steroid abuse is a problem. Casual Steroid abuse is a problem due to lack of knowledge by those taking them. The problem that is inherent with steroids is the mixing of drugs, stacking multiple compounds and pure ignorance as to the result.

Im not even a steroid advocate in the slightest but scare mongering is rampant among those who have no exposure to it in the slightest. You seem to fit that bill quite aptly.

[Dumi]

Dude, you're an imbecile. Worse, you're a arrogant imbecile. Go to the Mayo clinic website and read about Creatine. Then, if you then still want to preach the virtues of Creatine, explain first why one of the most respected medical research facilities in the world is wrong

Did what you said and I'll break it down;

There is limited systematic study of the safety, pharmacology, or toxicology of creatine. Individuals using creatine, including athletes, should be monitored by a healthcare professional. Users are advised to inform their physician or other healthcare professional.

Nothing out of the ordinary here. It'd be like starting new medication.


Some individuals may experience gastrointestinal symptoms, including loss of appetite, stomach discomfort, diarrhea, or nausea.
Creatine may cause muscle cramps or muscle breakdown, leading to muscle tears or discomfort. Weight gain and increased body mass may occur. Heat intolerance, fever, dehydration, reduced blood volume, or electrolyte imbalances (and resulting seizures) may occur.

SOME people may experience these symptoms. Like I said before, creatine works with some and doesn't with others. Weight gain and increased muscle mass? Well that's usually the point in taking creatine, and it's never more than a few pounds. Dehydration? Again, being smart in your training and hydration will take care of the dehydration. The last few ARE possible side effects, but i don't see a report anywhere showing much evidence of this. Again, people will always react differently to different substances. The biggest problems from creatine usually occur due to people buying crap quality stuff. You get what you pay for, and cheap quality creatine has a lot of unnecessary products.



[/quote]There is less concern today than there used to be about possible kidney damage from creatine, although there are reports of kidney damage, such as interstitial nephritis. Patients with kidney disease should avoid use of this supplement. Similarly, liver function may be altered, and caution is advised in those with underlying liver disease.[/quote]


Well of course people with kidney diseases should be careful what they take. People with diseases in general should be careful with what they put into their bodies. This quote is no different than telling someone with previous brain damage to avoid boxing; it's just common sense.

In theory, creatine may alter the activities of insulin. Caution is advised in patients with diabetes or hypoglycemia, and in those taking drugs, herbs, or supplements that affect blood sugar. Serum glucose levels may need to be monitored by a healthcare professional, and medication adjustments may be necessary.

Again, more common sense. If you don't use your brain with what you put into your body, you're asking for these things to happen to you.



Chronic administration of a large quantity of creatine is reported to increase the production of formaldehyde, which may potentially cause serious unwanted side effects.

I'm very interesting in reports of this. I'll happily admit being wrong if I see a series of unbiased reports.



Based on a case report, creatinine may increase the risk of compartment syndrome of the lower leg, a condition characterized by pain in the lower leg associated with inflammation and ischemia (diminished blood flow), which is a potential surgical emergency.

MAY. Based on 1 case report? If I see more, I'll more than happily say it's a risk. Until then, I'll take it with a grain of salt. All I've seen in this thread is people who have no idea what they're talking about and are just parrotting what they've heard in media scaremongering. maybe next time you'll read that page properly.

[littleguy]

Im not even a steroid advocate in the slightest but scare mongering is rampant among those who have no exposure to it in the slightest. You seem to fit that bill quite aptly.

I'll take that as a compliment. I've never taken the stuff, never will. I got more than enough testosterone of my own

I got no argument with some of what you guys say. There's a lot of hardcore steroid users out there who know exactly what they're doing. If you know how to stack and know how to cycle and know how to inject and don't get a bad batch and know your post cycle therapy and get regular checkups and have the right genetics and don't mind the shrunken testicles and high cholesterol and acne and mood swings and gyno and the rest, you may be fine

However, most hard core users who know what they're doing know the risks, and they warn the casual users against using the stuff until (1) the newbie knows exactly what he's doing and (2) the newbie trains to his maximum potential first. And you CAN get into big trouble very quickly if you don't know what you're doing. And believe it or not, hard core users are drug addicts. I've talked to them and read what they say. They're hooked the same way a crack addict is hooked although like any other addict they'll deny it

Oh and by the way Kenny, wherever the hell you are, steroids have been around a lot longer than the 60s. Hitler supplied steroids to the SS to make them more aggressive. Makes you want to run right out and try the stuff

[Kenny]

Little guy,

First I just want to address the "idea" of addiction, regarding the comparison of steroids to Crack.

Addiction makes a person do things they would not ordinarily do. For instance, Crack addicts are so "addicted" and desparate that they will use a needle that they just found on the floor of a Pen Station bathroom to inject their Crack, "addiction" will be the motivating factor for a person to violently mugg and beat and rob a 80 year old women on the streets of Brooklyn to get their Crack fix, "addiction" will motivate a person to crawl through a unknown persons apartment window at 330 am, confront whoever is there, kill them and steal 5 bucks to get their Crack fix.

I HARDLY think your comparison to responsible males using male hormones, hitting the gym, checking out the mirro, eating chicken and brown rice is accurate in terms of " Addiction".

Would you agree?

Regards,
THINKABOUTIT