What is your SMW top 25?

[Decebal]

This is Lampley's ESB Rankings' TOP 11.

SMW -

Champion: Joe Calzaghe

Mikkel Kessler
Anthony Mundine
Lucian Bute
Jeff Lacy
Carl Froch
Alejandro Berrio
Librado Andrade
Vitali Tsypko
Sakio Bika
Allan Green

I am not so much interested in who comes third, fourth or fifth or anything like that, but who makes it in the top 10 in the first place, who makes it in the top 15, in the top 20, in the top 25...

So...Who makes your top 10?

Who comes 11-15? (order isn't so important)
How about 15-20 and 20-25...again, order isn't so important...

Many thanks...:good

(I have started this thread because I think that no Champ should ever fight someone outside the top 20...not even in a first, "easy", "home-coming" defence)

[PrideOfWales]

What about boxers changing weight class?

[Brickhaus]

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Mikkel Kessler
3. Anthony Mundine
4. Lucian Bute
5. Jeff Lacy
6. Carl Froch
7. Markus Beyer
8. Sakio Bika
9. Alejandro Berrio
10. Jean Pascal

11-15 probably includes Allan Green, Vitali Tsypko, Denis Inkin, Jurgen Braehmer and Jean Paul Mendy. 15 - 20 probably includes Librado Andrade, Jaidon Codrington, Mads Larsen, Fulgencio Zuniga, Sam Soliman. 20 - 25 probably includes Manfredo, Reid and a bunch of prospects. Miranda probably pops in at around 10-12 after this weekend.

[Fat Tony]

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Mikkel Kessler
3. Anthony Mundine
4. Lucian Bute
5. Jeff Lacy
6. Carl Froch
7. Markus Beyer
8. Sakio Bika
9. Alejandro Berrio
10. Jean Pascal

11-15 probably includes Allan Green, Vitali Tsypko, Denis Inkin, Jurgen Braehmer and Jean Paul Mendy. 15 - 20 probably includes Librado Andrade, Jaidon Codrington, Mads Larsen, Fulgencio Zuniga, Sam Soliman. 20 - 25 probably includes Manfredo, Reid and a bunch of prospects. Miranda probably pops in around 15 or after this weekend.

Good list. :good

BTW, what's up with Mendy? His last fight was against Hanshaw in January.

[UKITAZ]

Brickhaus, you wouldnt have Andrade in your top 15 ?? That ridiculous !

[ThePlugInBabies]

1- kessler
2- mundine
3- bute
4- froch
5- andrade
6- lacy
7- berrio
8- beyer
9- pascal
10- tsypko
11- bika
12- calzaghe

[Decebal]

What about boxers changing weight class?

well...if they fight at SMW, where would they rank? (irrespective of their rank at other weights...)

[Brickhaus]

Brickhaus, you wouldnt have Andrade in your top 15 ?? That ridiculous !

Why's that? Yusef Mack was boxing his ears off! He's lucky he was facing someone with proven stamina problems and a below average chin! He only has a puncher's chance against any of the guys ahead of him, which is why I have him around 16 or 17. A good chin does not a good fighter make. Besides, I don't really see a huge difference in skill level between the guys occupying 7 through 17.

As for Mendy, if I remember correctly, he had a fight scheduled but hurt himself in training, I believe. I doubt he gets much higher than this though; southpaws with a punch and decent workrate are usually avoided unless they're rated highly by the ABCs, which he's not.

[Decebal]

Don't worry so much about others' rankings...let's see your own...we all have an idea of how good someone's ranking is.:good

[Quik]

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Mikkel Kessler
3. Anthony Mundine
4. Lucian Bute
5. Jeff Lacy
6. Sakio Bika
7. Librado Andrade
8. Carl Froch
9. Edison Miranda
10. Alejandro Berrio
11. Fulgencio Zuniga
12. Markus Beyer
13. Allen Green
14. Vitali Tsypko
15. Jaidon Codrington
16. Jean Pascal
17. Denis Inkin
18. Sam Soliman
19. Jean Paul Mendy
20. Peter Manfredo

And there it is...

Jean Pascal is way too low. I place him before Condrington, Tsypko, Green, Zuniga and of course Beyer who is not event in my top 30.

[motorboater13]

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Mikkel Kessler
3. Lucien Bute
4. Anthony Mundine
5. Dennis Inkin
6. Jurgen Brahmer
7. Librado Andrade
8. Carl Froch
10. Vitaly Tsypko
11. Alejandro Berrio
12. Jean Pascal
13. Jeff Lacy
14. Allan Green
15. Fulgencio Zuniga
16. Cristian Sanavia
17. Sakio Bika
18. Peter Manfredo
19. Mads Larsen
20. Jean Paul Mendy
20. Jaidon Codrington

Couldn't put Miranda up yet I have to see him at SMW.

[Amsterdam]

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Mikkel Kessler
3. Anthony Mundine
4. Lucian Bute
5. Jeff Lacy
6. Carl Froch
7. Markus Beyer
8. Sakio Bika
9. Alejandro Berrio
10. Jean Pascal

11-15 probably includes Allan Green, Vitali Tsypko, Denis Inkin, Jurgen Braehmer and Jean Paul Mendy. 15 - 20 probably includes Librado Andrade, Jaidon Codrington, Mads Larsen, Fulgencio Zuniga, Sam Soliman. 20 - 25 probably includes Manfredo, Reid and a bunch of prospects. Miranda probably pops in at around 10-12 after this weekend.

I believe Inkin has done a bit more than Pascal personally....

[DaveyScan]

C. Joe Calzaghe
1. Mikkel Kessler
2. Anthony Mundine
3. Lucian Bute
4. Dennis Inkin
5. Carl Froch
6. Jurgen Brahmer
7. Librado Andrade
8. Jean Pascal
9. Jeff Lacy
10. Vitaly Tsypko
12. Anthony Hanshaw
13. Jean-Paul Mendy
14. Allan Green
15. Fulgencio Zuniga
16. Sakio Bika
17. Cristian Sanavia
18. Peter Manfredo
19. Robert Stieglitz
20. Jaidon Codrington

[Odo]

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Mikkel Kessler
3. Anthony Mundine
4. Lucian Bute
5. Jeff Lacy
6. Carl Froch
7. Markus Beyer
8. Sakio Bika
9. Alejandro Berrio
10. Jean Pascal

11-15 probably includes Allan Green, Vitali Tsypko, Denis Inkin, Jurgen Braehmer and Jean Paul Mendy. 15 - 20 probably includes Librado Andrade, Jaidon Codrington, Mads Larsen, Fulgencio Zuniga, Sam Soliman. 20 - 25 probably includes Manfredo, Reid and a bunch of prospects. Miranda probably pops in at around 10-12 after this weekend.

Bika,a shot Beyer,Froch who struggled with Adamu(who was schooled by Tsypko two weeks before),very limited puncher Berrio,and Pascal among the top 10,but Denis Inkin who most experts consider to be the best fighter behind Kessler and Calzaghe not even among the top 10?????

Lacy at nr.5???

[PeterNielsen70]

On Nov. 4 the champion and #1 will have to change places of course.:bbb

C. Joe Calzaghe
1. Mikkel Kessler
2. Lucian Bute
3. Dennis Inkin
4. Anthony Mundine
5. Carl Forch
6. Alejandro Berrio
7. Librado Andrade
8. Jean Pascal
9. Jeff Lacy
10. Jurgen Brähmer
11. Vitaly Tsypko
12. Robert Stieglitz
13. Sakio Bika
14. Christian Sanavia
15. Edison Miranda
16. Allan Green
17. Fulgencio Zuniga
18. Sam Soliman
19. Mads Larsen
20. Marcus Beyer
21. Jaidon Codrington
22. Peter Manfredo, Jr.
23. Jean Paul Mendy
24. Anthony Hansaw
25. Robin Reid

[Brickhaus]

Bika,a shot Beyer,Froch who struggled with Adamu(who was schooled by Tsypko two weeks before),very limited puncher Berrio,and Pascal among the top 10,but Denis Inkin who most experts consider to be the best fighter behind Kessler and Calzaghe not even among the top 10?????

Lacy at nr.5???

I'll have to try tracking down some video of Inkin. He hasn't really beaten anyone of note, none of the people he's beaten have beaten anyone of note (other than Veit's win over ancient Brewer), and the fact that he was even on the cards with Veit at the time of the stoppage is pretty unimpressive, so I don't feel comfortable ranking him too highly without having seen him. Seems like a typical protected Universum boxer who might be great, but I'd never know it because he never fights anyone who doesn't have a massively padded record.

If I can find good video, I might be influenced here.

[Astola]

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Mikkel Kessler
3. Anthony Mundine
4. Lucian Bute
5. Jeff Lacy
6. Carl Froch
7. Markus Beyer
8. Sakio Bika
9. Alejandro Berrio
10. Jean Pascal

11-15 probably includes Allan Green, Vitali Tsypko, Denis Inkin, Jurgen Braehmer and Jean Paul Mendy. 15 - 20 probably includes Librado Andrade, Jaidon Codrington, Mads Larsen, Fulgencio Zuniga, Sam Soliman. 20 - 25 probably includes Manfredo, Reid and a bunch of prospects. Miranda probably pops in at around 10-12 after this weekend.

Dude - youve put Andrade as # 15-20 and you have Berrio as #9 and Beyer as # 7. Your list is horrible:bart :bart :tired :tired

[Dojo]

On Nov. 4 the champion and #1 will have to change places of course.:bbb

C. Joe Calzaghe
1. Mikkel Kessler
2. Lucian Bute
3. Dennis Inkin
4. Anthony Mundine
5. Carl Forch
6. Alejandro Berrio
7. Librado Andrade
8. Jean Pascal
9. Jeff Lacy
10. Jurgen Brähmer
11. Vitaly Tsypko
12. Robert Stieglitz
13. Sakio Bika
14. Christian Sanavia
15. Edison Miranda
16. Allan Green
17. Fulgencio Zuniga
18. Sam Soliman
19. Mads Larsen
20. Marcus Beyer
21. Jaidon Codrington
22. Peter Manfredo, Jr.
23. Jean Paul Mendy
24. Anthony Hansaw
25. Robin Reid



Inkin at #3!!!:rofl

[Brickhaus]

Dude - youve put Andrade as # 15-20 and you have Berrio as #9 and Beyer as # 7. Your list is horrible:bart :bart :tired :tired

I've already said why I think Andrade is overrated. He was destroyed by the only good fighter he faced, and he was getting a beatdown from a B- level fighter who I'd barely rank in the top 20 if he had won. Berrio arguably could be lower, but I just don't see who I would put ahead of him. He's still beaten Stieglitz (who I missed before and would probably go in the 15-20 range) and Vanderpool and beat Mack much more convincingly than did Andrade (i.e. he was actually winning the fight when he put Mack to sleep), and has a puncher's chance against just about anyone. Beyer has beaten Green twice, Sheika, Sanavia, Thysse and Lucas and drawn Bika, and while he's gotten some questionable decisions, it's still the best resume of any of the people below Froch.

Why don't you put up a list?

BTW, after thinking things over, I do think I'll flip Froch and Lacy. I still want to see more of Lacy post-injury.

[Decebal]

Top 20 is good; top 25 would be better!:D

[Astola]

My list is something like this:

C. Joe Calzaghe

1. Mikkel Kessler
2. Anthony Mundine
3. Lucian Bute
4. Jeff Lacy
5. Librado Andrade
6. Dennis Inkin
7. Carl Froch
8. Jurgen Brähmer
9. Jean Pascal
10. Alejandro Berrio
11. Edison Miranda
12. Mads Larsen
13. Sakio Bika
14. Marcus Beyer
15. Robert Stieglitz
16. Allan Green
17. Fulgencio Zuniga
18. Christian Sanavia
19. Jean Paul Mendy
20. Vitaly Tsypko
21. Sam Soliman
22. Jaidon Codrington
23. Anthony Hansaw
24. Peter Manfredo, Jr.
25. Robin Reid


I forgot some - I will edit later.

[dwilson]

1 Kessler
2 Calzaghe
3 Bute
4 Inkin
5 Froch
6 Pascal
7 Andrade
8 Brahmer
9 Berrio
10 Lacy

[Decebal]

I have been trying to make a list but I just don't know enough about boxing and about the fighters in the division, outside a handful of which I know a lot about...:oops: ...maybe our analysts will chip in and give some guidance.:D

[PH|LLA]

1. Kessler/Calzaghe
3. Bute
4. Inkin
5. Mundine
6. Lacy
7. Froch
8. Pascal
9. Brahmer
10. Bika
11. Berrio

[Decebal]

Please, please, please...let's have 11-25...I am quite confident I can do a good 1-10 myself.

[Decebal]

Seeing as it's fight week.

LOL at all the Kessler fan's trying to have Andrade rated higher than 15 - which is only due to a weak division that he gets that high.

Just because your boy couldn't knock the brick shithouse down doesn't mean the majority of Super Middleweights wouldn't.

...seeing that you're posting ALREADY, why don't you pull your finger out and give me your 1-25?

[Amsterdam]

Blocky, you weren't supposed to come back until Monday for Cal-Kessler week, but you've broken your bet so many times already it doesn't even matter.

Just forget the damn bet and post, everyone knows that you cannot keep to your word now. You should have thought it over before confidently taking a 6 month off bet with an almost assured loser in Jermain Taylor, who you admitted that you overrated prior.

So Blockhead, just come on back and post your normal rhetoric, you've broken the bet.

[kel]

1 Kessler
2 Calzaghe
3 Bute
4 Inkin
5 Froch
6 Pascal
7 Andrade
8 Brahmer
9 Berrio
10 Lacy


Where's Mundine? :patsch

Not that i like him very much but he is probably 3rd, 4th or 5th on everybody in the world's list.

[Decebal]

I don't really go as deep as to 25 because I think from about 8th onwards, they're all interchangeable

Champ/1 - Calzaghe
2 - Kessler
3 - Bute
4 - Lacy (you can't have Lacy behind Mundine when he's only ever lost to the champ, Mundine has lost to several fighters)
5 - Mundine
6 - Inkin
7 - Froch

8 - 25 can be consisted of fighters like Bika, Codrington, Green, Veit, Brahmer, Pantera (when he makes the move), Berrio, Stieglitz, Soliman, etc etc.

There isn't enough of these guys fighting one another to prove themselves.

I put Bute ahead of Lacy and Mundine solely for the fact that he dispatched a pretty good Bika and also did well with Berrio - Lacy is ahead of Mundine because he's still beaten better fighters and only ever lost to the best.. Mundine is there more so for the fact that I think H2H he could beat a majority of the fighters in the top 25 - but fuck, I'd bet Bika if those two ever fought.

Yeah...I know what you mean when you say "interchangeable", but clearly, some must be better than others...the guys around the Top 10 have to be better than the guys around the top 18, who again have to be better than the guys around the top 25...can you not have another go...8-25...maybe, just put them in groups/clusters, without ordering them...

8-13
14-19
20-15

[Decebal]

Amsterdam, sean, Zakman, Maxime, kg, brooklyn, what are your thoughts?

[Amsterdam]

It's fight week, fella

Saturday 27th of October vs Saturday 3rd of November.


Fight week starts Monday, this week has nothing to do with next week.

Any other time I came back was to stop the Danish fuckwits claiming I was here as another poster.

Which violates the bet.

Besides, you're still rating your prediction over Taylor? You got plain fucking lucky that Taylor didn't finish the job in Round 2 like he was supposed to do.

But he did not, he is an innate failure at the top level and Pavlik is not even a true top level. It was more so Pavlik dropping his gaurd because he felt he was dealing with a cream puff puncher.


What you saw as a key to victory wasn't at all the key, it was more so that Pavlik just had more heart, something you never mentioned at all throughout your entire prediction


Ah, more incorrect statements Blocky. I stated Pavlik would wear Taylor down with constant pressure with his size and workrate and that Taylor couldn't control the fight well enough from the backfoot, I also stated that Pavlik would win the jabbing contest with his reach.

Then I stated that Pavlik was more durable. My prediction aside from Pavlik getting KD'd was spot on.

I only mentioned this because you cannot resist posting, even though you confidently made the bet for 6 months. Just like you confidently think Kessler is trash, which is not the case.

[Amsterdam]

Admit it, you got lucky as shit in that Taylor bet.

I got lucky that Pavlik didn't get KTFO for his carelessness, but aside from that, the fight went exactly as I said it would.

Jermain Taylor is a piss champion, that sure as hell proved it. No poise.

[Decebal]

*ehem*

[yesihavearm]

Why the hell are people putting Andrade in their top 10 ?

Calzaghe
Kessler
Bute

Lacy I feel could force himself into 2nd with a couple of good wins.


Then a fight between Mundine, Froch, Green etc...

[gambleer]

Codrington, Zuniga and Soliman better than Manfredo ?

[LFC]

1. Calzaghe
2. Kessler
3. Mundine
4. Bute
5. Lacy
6. Inkin
7. Froch
8. Braehmer
9. Tsypko
10. Pascal

Lacy would easily be #3 if he was more active. Calzaghe was an awful matchup for him but he's still class IMO.

[JJ]

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Mikkel Kessler
3. Lucian Bute
4. Anthony Mundine
5. Jeff Lacy
6. Denis Inkin
7. Carl Froch
8. Librado Andrade

[Decebal]

...well, that's all nice and good...but Top 12 I can do too...I was looking for insight into the rest of the better fighters in the division...thank you for your answers so far.:good

[JJ]

Delete

[boxfan99]

Champion: Vacant until no.1 and no.2 in the division fight each other.

1. Calzaghe
2. Kessler
3. Mundine
4. Bute
5. Lacy
6. Froch
7. Inkin
8. Pascal
9. Green
10. Braehmer
11. Mendy
12. Tsypko
13. Andrade
14. Bika
15. Larsen
16. Stieglitz
17. Berrio
18. Zuniga
19. Codrington
20. Soliman
21. Sanavia
22. Manfredo
23. Dirrell
24. Tatevosyan
25. Ward

I have placed Stieglitz in front of Berrio because I believe Stieglitz is better and just got caught in their second fight.

I have left out guys like Hanshaw, Beyer, Miranda and Teymour for different reasons such as inactivity and having fought in another division in their last fights.

[Maxime]

My shitty top25:
- Did not include Beyer because he's been inactive for more then a year
- Did not include Miranda because he did not fight at 168lbs yet.

Champion: Calzaghe (WBO)

01- Kessler (WBC & WBA)
02- Mundine
03- Bute (IBF)
04- Inkin
05- Andrade
06- Lacy
07- Tsypko
08- Zuniga
09- Braehmer
10- Froch
11- Stieglitz
12- Pascal
13- Bika
14- Mendy
15- Berrio
16- Green
17- Sanavia
18- Soliman
19- Gogiya
20- Manfredo Jr.
21- Larsen
22- Veit
23- Bozic
24- Mock
25- Codrington

[MrStayman]

My shitty top25:
- Did not include Beyer because he's been inactive for more then a year
- Did not include Miranda because he did not fight at 168lbs yet.

Champion: Calzaghe (WBO)

01- Kessler (WBC & WBA)
02- Mundine
03- Bute (IBF)
04- Inkin
05- Andrade
06- Lacy
07- Tsypko
08- Zuniga
09- Braehmer
10- Froch
11- Stieglitz
12- Pascal
13- Bika
14- Mendy
15- Berrio
16- Green
17- Sanavia
18- Soliman
19- Gogiya
20- Manfredo Jr.
21- Larsen
22- Veit
23- Bozic
24- Mock
25- CodringtonGood list (other than Calzaghe being champion before fighting Kessler).

[MrStayman]

That's the one thing I'll give you credit on, leading up to the fight, you did say Jermain Taylor had no poise and would lose himself in a big situation

Jermain Taylor lost poise in the second round and cost himself the fight - that's the one thing (and only in my view) that you got right.The only thing he got right? You mean Taylor didn't get KTFO? :patsch

[Maxime]

Good list (other than Calzaghe being champion before fighting Kessler).
It will be irrelevent comes next weekend. One of them will be the undisputed champion. :)

[Clearly Cool]

Your argument is silly

Mundine is about as inactive as Lacy is - Mundine has also lost to worser fighters

I can handle you ranking Inkin and Bute ahead of Lacy, but Mundine absolutely cannot be rated ahead of Lacy in any intelligent ranking.

Your an idiot.

Mundine is clearly above Lacy in the rankings at SMW. He has thrashed Sam Soliman, Danny Green and a bunch of C-Grade opponents since his last loss, whereas Lacy only JUST beat Tsypko some would argue it was a bad decision.

[Decebal]

Thank you, boxfan99 and Maxime!:good

[boxfan99]

It will be irrelevent comes next weekend. One of them will be the undisputed champion. :)

No, none of them will become undisputed, but one of them will become lineal champion.

[Odo]

Champion: Vacant until no.1 and no.2 in the division fight each other.

1. Calzaghe
2. Kessler
3. Mundine
4. Bute
5. Lacy
6. Froch
7. Inkin
8. Pascal
9. Green
10. Braehmer
11. Mendy
12. Tsypko
13. Andrade
14. Bika
15. Larsen
16. Stieglitz
17. Berrio
18. Zuniga
19. Codrington
20. Soliman
21. Sanavia
22. Manfredo
23. Dirrell
24. Tatevosyan
25. Ward

I have placed Stieglitz in front of Berrio because I believe Stieglitz is better and just got caught in their second fight.

I have left out guys like Hanshaw, Beyer, Miranda and Teymour for different reasons such as inactivity and having fought in another division in their last fights.

Good point,boxfan! I would probably rank Stieglitz ahead of Berrio,too.
He took the Columbian out in their first encounter,and seemed to be on the way to win the second encounter when he was caught by one of Berrio ' s haymaker.I,too,think that Stieglitz is better than Berrio.

By the way a lot of people here are quite high on Mundine who had a bloody close fight with American journeyman Manny Siaca.
Last week I watched Silvio Branco live on the undercard of Solis/Gamboa/Samil Sam.He showed a very decent performance against a teak tough cookie from Brasil.He is an old geezer,but still able to beat some of the fighters of all the lists which can be found on this tread.
Branco won every round of his encounter with Manny Siaco not that long ago teaching him a lesson in boxing.
I for my part wouldnt favour Mundine very much in a fight against that old Italian geezer.

[Fitir]

BTW, what's up with Mendy? His last fight was against Hanshaw in January.
Mendy has no promoter, he is not well ranked and it's difficult for him to finnd a fight. In France he has always been avoided like plague by Chanet, Sahnoune, Amar etc. In Europe he had done enough to secure a shot at the EBU belt or at least the EBU-EU belt but he didn't obtain it. In the US he was unknown and he could enter the tournament organized by Shaw who was not very happy to see that the boy he had given the training camp of a world champ and everything to win was not able to dominate him...
He works as an educator for the municipality of Levallois.

[Maxime]

Good point,boxfan! I would probably rank Stieglitz ahead of Berrio,too.
He took the Columbian out in their first encounter,and seemed to be on the way to win the second encounter when he was caught by one of Berrio ' s haymaker.I,too,think that Stieglitz is better than Berrio.

By the way a lot of people here are quite high on Mundine who had a bloody close fight with American journeyman Manny Siaca.
Last week I watched Silvio Branco live on the undercard of Solis/Gamboa/Samil Sam.He showed a very decent performance against a teak tough cookie from Brasil.He is an old geezer,but still able to beat some of the fighters of all the lists which can be found on this tread.
Branco won every round of his encounter with Manny Siaco not that long ago teaching him a lesson in boxing.
I for my part wouldnt favour Mundine very much in a fight against that old Italian geezer.

Some people are high on Mundine (me included) because had excellent performances against Danny Green and Sam Soliman. Unfortunatly he likes to space those performances against mediocre opposition.

[boxfan99]

Good point,boxfan! I would probably rank Stieglitz ahead of Berrio,too.
He took the Columbian out in their first encounter,and seemed to be on the way to win the second encounter when he was caught by one of Berrio ' s haymaker.I,too,think that Stieglitz is better than Berrio.

By the way a lot of people here are quite high on Mundine who had a bloody close fight with American journeyman Manny Siaca.
Last week I watched Silvio Branco live on the undercard of Solis/Gamboa/Samil Sam.He showed a very decent performance against a teak tough cookie from Brasil.He is an old geezer,but still able to beat some of the fighters of all the lists which can be found on this tread.
Branco won every round of his encounter with Manny Siaco not that long ago teaching him a lesson in boxing.
I for my part wouldnt favour Mundine very much in a fight against that old Italian geezer.

Have you seen Mundine after his fight with Siaca? He has improved incredibly much! To judge him by that fight alone would be the same as judging Braehmer solely on his first fight with Veit for instance.

Regarding Branco, he is a lightheavyweight and haven't fought at SMW for 7 years. When he beat Siaca, who had not done much after the beating Kessler gave him, the fight took place at LHW.

[Maxime]

I'm surprised no one has given me fits for rating Zuniga this high. :lol:

Personally, I think he has looked very impressive since moving up to 168lbs.

I'd love to see Bute make a title defense against this guy.

[Brickhaus]

Your argument is silly

Mundine is about as inactive as Lacy is - Mundine has also lost to worser fighters

I can handle you ranking Inkin and Bute ahead of Lacy, but Mundine absolutely cannot be rated ahead of Lacy in any intelligent ranking.
I'll take objection to that one. Yes, Mundine lost to worse fighters in the past; however, his situation is similar to Kermit Cintron's - he was a raw fighter early on who was immensely talented but had little ring experience, and got in over his head way too quickly. Since his losses, he's improved immensely, and has proved himself more recently with the most respectable showing anyone's put up against Kessler and dominant wins over Green (which nobody else has ever done) and a more dominant win over Soliman than what Winky Wright was able to do. Mundine's come into his own, and while he's inactive, he has a better recent resume than Lacy and I think a matchup between the two would be an almost even odds fight.

I agree with you generally that the guys from about 7 on to about 17 (my third tier) are fairly interchangeable. Mads Larsen is the start of the 4th tier for me. For instance, while his list looks very different than mine, I have absolutely no qualms with Boxfan's list.

[boxfan99]

I'm surprised no one has given me fits for rating Zuniga this high. :lol:

Personally, I think he has looked very impressive since moving up to 168lbs.

I'd love to see Bute make a title defense against this guy.

I wouldn't. Zuniga is in many ways a poor mans Andrade in my eyes. If you can box, are well conditioned, have a decent chin and don't buckle under pressure then he shouldn't pose any problems. Bute have all these assets, Oganov didn't have any of them.

Since you mentioned it, I do think placing Zuniga in top 10 is a stretch. I could understand if you had placed him in top 15, but that is just my opinion, I'm not thrashing your list or anything.

[THN]

My shitty top25:
- Did not include Beyer because he's been inactive for more then a year
- Did not include Miranda because he did not fight at 168lbs yet.

Champion: Calzaghe (WBO)

01- Kessler (WBC & WBA)
02- Mundine
03- Bute (IBF)
04- Inkin
05- Andrade
06- Lacy
07- Tsypko
08- Zuniga
09- Braehmer
10- Froch
11- Stieglitz
12- Pascal
13- Bika
14- Mendy
15- Berrio
16- Green
17- Sanavia
18- Soliman
19- Gogiya
20- Manfredo Jr.
21- Larsen
22- Veit
23- Bozic
24- Mock
25- Codrington

Good list:good maybe Braehmer and Tsypko should swap
Larsen and Manfredo aswell

[Odo]

Have you seen Mundine after his fight with Siaca? He has improved incredibly much! To judge him by that fight alone would be the same as judging Braehmer solely on his first fight with Veit for instance.

Regarding Branco, he is a lightheavyweight and haven't fought at SMW for 7 years. When he beat Siaca, who had not done much after the beating Kessler gave him, the fight took place at LHW.

Well,I wouldnt bet any money on Branco in a fight against Mundine.However,I was quite impressed to watch him against a tough cookie from Brazil.
Branco is a bit over the hill,but still no pushover.

Yes,I saw some rounds of Mundine's encounter with Green,and thanks to a Danish poster I was able to watch Mundine vs Kessler.
Mundine for sure is a force at supermiddle,but he is beatable.
He was knocked out by feather fisted German runner Sven Ottke,and looked like shit against Siaca.He has improved since then,but I am still not that high on him.
Kessler would beat him again,Inkin would also win against him,and there are some names which come to my mind whom I would give a good chance to upset the Australin.
Tsypko is one of the names.

[Decebal]

1. Joe
2. Mikkel
----------------
3. Lucian
4. Choc
----------------
5. Inkin
----------------
6. Lacy
7. Andrade
----------------
8. Froch
9. Tsypko
10. Bika
----------------
11. Braehmer
12. Miranda
13. Pascal
----------------
14. Zuniga
15. Green
16. Berrio
17. Stieglitz
----------------
18. ???

[Decebal]

1. Joe
2. Mikkel
----------------
3. Lucian
4. Choc
----------------
5. Inkin
----------------
6. Lacy
7. Andrade
----------------
8. Froch
9. Tsypko
10. Bika
----------------
11. Braehmer
12. Miranda
13. Pascal
----------------
14. Zuniga
15. Green
16. Berrio
17. Stieglitz
----------------
18. ???

Am I overrating Lacy/Andrade? Am I underrating anyone?:think

[David UK]

Here's the top five from the ESB Brains Trust (K2Gay,Tool Pretty,Unbeatable Floyd,CandyBoyStandi,Skills So Shite)

1.Lacy
2.Mundine
3.Bika
4.Green
5.Codrington

[Decebal]

1. Calzaghe
2. Kessler
3. Taylor (he's officially here now regardless of whether he wins / loses vs Pavlik again)
4. Bika - I consider this man a diamond in the rough
5. Froch

:think I don't know you well enough as a poster to know whether you are having a laugh or whether you are serious...


so...I don't know whether my reply should be:

:blood or :rofl

[Decebal]

Probably both! ;)

But every man's entitled to his opinions :D

Bute just does'nt float my boat, neither does Andrade nor Mundine.

:shock: You mean you SERIOUSLY rate Bika (whom Bute beat):deal and Taylor, who hasn't even fought at SMW above the likes of Mundine, Bute, Inkin...?:huh

I am sorry, but I don't see how that could be...do you think Bika would beat Bute in a rematch?:huh


Yeeees...every man IS entitled to an opinion...:blood

(What impressed you so much about Froch's performance against shot Reid last night?):huh

[Fat Tony]

1. Joe
2. Mikkel
----------------
3. Lucian
4. Choc
----------------
5. Inkin
----------------
6. Lacy
7. Andrade
----------------
8. Froch
9. Tsypko
10. Bika
----------------
11. Braehmer
12. Miranda
13. Pascal
----------------
14. Zuniga
15. Green
16. Berrio
17. Stieglitz
----------------
18. ???

Brähmer should be in the Top10, Tsypko out of the Top10.
Froch should be ahead of Andrade, Berrio ahead of Bika and Miranda.

1. Calzaghe
2. Kessler
3. Bute
4. Mundine
5. Lacy
6. Froch
7. Inkin
8. Andrade
9. Brähmer
10. Berrio

[VIP]

Here's a top 5.

1. Calzaghe
2. Kessler
3. Mundine
4. Bute
5. Froch

[Decebal]

Here's a top 5.

1. Calzaghe
2. Kessler
3. Mundine
4. Bute
5. Froch

Is Froch that good? I had him at 6 until last night...but isn't he slipping?:think

[Decebal]

Brähmer should be in the Top10, Tsypko out of the Top10.
Froch should be ahead of Andrade, Berrio ahead of Bika and Miranda.

1. Calzaghe
2. Kessler
3. Bute
4. Mundine
5. Lacy
6. Froch
7. Inkin
8. Andrade
9. Brähmer
10. Berrio

Is Berrio that good? :think

[Decebal]

Axe made the following list:


C:Joe Calzaghe
1.Mikkel Kessler
2.Jeff Lacy
3.Anthony Mundine
4.Marcus Beyer
5.Carl Froch
6.Lucian Bute
7.Librado Andrade
8.Edison Miranda
9.Alan Green
10.Jurgen Braehmer

[Decebal]

Brickhaus made the following list:


C: Joe Calzaghe
1. Mikkel Kessler
2. Anthony Mundine
3. Lucian Bute
4. Carl Froch
5. Jeff Lacy
6. Denis Inkin
7. Sakio Bika
8. Edison Miranda
9. Alejandro Berrio
10. Jean Pascal

[Decebal]

McGrain made the following list:

C:Joe Calzaghe
1.Mikkel Kessler
2.Lucian Bute
3.Carl Frotch
4.Anthony Mundine
5.Librado Andrede
6.Allan Green
7.Jeff Lacey
8.Sakio Bika
9.Edison Miranda

[Stickandmove]

Decebal - you are the ultimate super middleweight boxing fan! You really have the hots for Bute and Kessler don't you :lol:

As far as I'm concerned the only fighters in the super middleweight division with any significance are:

1. Calzaghe (and he's probably moving up)
2. Kessler (should take over as #1 if Calzaghe moves up)
3. Bute (still undefeated and perhaps a little overlooked - he beat Salem and Bika better than Calzaghe did)
4. Carl Froch (Undefeated and an exciting fighter with a big punch and a mouth to match)
5. Dennis Inkin (because he's 31-0)
6. Jeff Lacy (to see if he can ever recover from the Calzaghe battering)
7. Sakio Bika (because he won the contender)

OK, I'm bored already. Please explain your fascination with this division that you would make you want to take the time to name your top 25.

[Maxime]

I updated my rankings. I only did a top15 tho. ;)

Champion: Calzaghe (WBC, WBA & WBO)

01- Kessler
02- Bute (IBF)
03- Mundine
04- Inkin
05- Andrade
06- Lacy
07- Braehmer
08- Froch
09- Tsypko
10- Pascal
11- Bika
12- Miranda
13- Green
14- Zuniga
15- Stieglitz

[Decebal]

Decebal - you are the ultimate super middleweight boxing fan! You really have the hots for Bute and Kessler don't you :lol:

As far as I'm concerned the only fighters in the super middleweight division with any significance are:

1. Calzaghe (and he's probably moving up)
2. Kessler (should take over as #1 if Calzaghe moves up)
3. Bute (still undefeated and perhaps a little overlooked - he beat Salem and Bika better than Calzaghe did)
4. Carl Froch (Undefeated and an exciting fighter with a big punch and a mouth to match)
5. Dennis Inkin (because he's 31-0)
6. Jeff Lacy (to see if he can ever recover from the Calzaghe battering)
7. Sakio Bika (because he won the contender)

OK, I'm bored already. Please explain your fascination with this division that you would make you want to take the time to name your top 25.

I don't know enough about the division to go beyond 17 at the moment, with any confidence...I am interested in SMW because it's Bute's division and because it is a very good division at the moment.

I know quite a bit about the division...There are quite a few others who know much more, though, so I started this thread...everyone is biased in some way, but if everyone makes a good case for their favourites and you read between the lines, you can decide what's what.

For example, some people here are unimpressed with Froch, especially after his last fight. The best guy he beat was Tatevosyan - barely World Class. Since then, he beat shot old Reid, who was just in it for a paycheck. Some British posters love Froch and this he is one of the best in the division.

German posters love their German fighters, and they love Inkin, who fights out of Germany. Canadians love Bute and Pascal, whom they overrate a bit. I love Lucian, Joe, Mikkel...but I try to be objective...still, I am sure I am prejudiced as much as everyone else, without realising it...The more of these lists crop up, the better we might form an opinion about who the best 10-15 really are.

(Some people don't have a clue about the division, more broadly, though, like the ones who exclude Inkin from their Top 10 or the ones who put Froch above Bute in the rankings or Bute above Kessler...) One thing is to be biased, another thing is to go overboard...:bart

Still, if I am to be honest, I don't think the best rankings that I personally can do is perfect...I wouldn't give my own best ranking more than 7.5/10 - 8/10...simply because I don't know enough about all the fighters involved...

[Decebal]

Maxime, Fat Tony, Odo, boxfan99...you all have very good rankings...!

[Decebal]

I updated my rankings. I only did a top15 tho. ;)

Champion: Calzaghe (WBC, WBA & WBO)

01- Kessler
02- Bute (IBF)
03- Mundine
04- Inkin
05- Andrade
06- Lacy
07- Braehmer
08- Froch
09- Tsypko
10- Pascal
11- Bika
12- Miranda
13- Green
14- Zuniga
15- Stieglitz

That's a very nice ranking, Maxime! Probably the best so far! But is Pascal as good as that, already? Also, Froch and Braehmer will most likely meet next year in a title fight...you picking Braehmer over Froch?

[Decebal]

1. Joe
2. Mikkel
----------------
3. Lucian
4. Choc
----------------
5. Inkin
----------------
6. Lacy
7. Andrade
----------------
8. Froch
9. Tsypko
10. Bika
----------------
11. Braehmer
12. Miranda
13. Pascal
----------------
14. Zuniga
15. Green
16. Berrio
17. Stieglitz
----------------
18. ???

Bute beat Berrio and Bika, but he hasn't impressed that much, particularly in his last fight...maybe Choc should really come ahead of him...maybe also Froch is better than 8th...somewhere around 6th/7th?

[Maxime]

I have a hard time putting Mundine ahead of Bute when all he has done lately is fight cab drivers from Argentina. Mundine has the talent for sure but his resume in the last year and a half does not convince me he should be ranked ahead of Bute.

[Decebal]

I have a hard time putting Mundine ahead of Bute when all he has done lately is fight cab drivers from Argentina. Mundine has the talent for sure but his resume in the last year and a half does not convince me he should be ranked ahead of Bute.

And Pascal? Top 10?

[LeedsLad]

1. Joe Calzaghe (WBC, WBA & WBO)
2. Mikkel Kessler
3. Anthony Mundine
4. Lucien Bute (IBF)
5. Jeff Lacy (He is the 5th best IMO, but maybe he shouldnt be ranked so high due to inactivity)
6. Denis Inkin
7. Sakio Bika
8. Librado Andrade
9. Carl Froch
10. Jurgen Braehmer
11. Edison Miranda (IMO could beat alot of the top 10, but unproven at the weight)
12. Jean Pascal
13. Alejandro Berrio
14. Robert Stieglitz
15. Allan Green

Thats my top 15, can't say iv many other fighters from this division. It is a pretty good one though:good

[PH|LLA]

i put up a list once in a SMW vs MW thread. Can't seem to find it.

[Decebal]

i put up a list once in a SMW vs MW thread. Can't seem to find it.

Much has changed in the last weeks...draw up a new one!:D

[Decebal]

:bump

[Decebal]

:bump

[yesihavearm]

Its amazing to see how many people are putting the glorified clubfighter Librado Andrade in their top20.

1. Calzaghe - Undisputed champion
2 . Kessler - Still a cut above the rest

-------------------------------

3. Bute - Good win over Bika and IBF champion
4. Lacy - Only loss to Calzaghe, look for strong future performances
5. Mundine - Needs better comepetition to move up further


--------------------------------------------------------

6. Inkin - Undefeated
7. Froch - Needs higher competition to move up
8. Bika - Vastly improved over losses to Calza and Bute

-------------------------------------------------------

9. Miranda - I love 9,10,11
10. Green
11. Zuniga - Especially Zuniga, hes gonna do damage in future.

------------------------------------------------------------------

12.Typsko
13.Brahmer
14.Pascal
15.Berrio


16+ = Stieglitz, Soliman, Codrington, Manfredo etc etc......


At no point should Librado Andrade be including in any "top" SMW list.

I'd also like to point out that I dont actually know that much on my 13. Brahmer or however its spelt. I might be over-rating him or underrating him accordingly.

[Decebal]

I'd also like to point out that I dont actually know that much on my 13. Brahmer or however its spelt. I might be over-rating him or underrating him accordingly.

Thanks for that...It's spelt Jürgen Brähmer ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), but ü and ä are also spelt "ue" and "ae".:good

Braehmer apparently lack a very sold chin...so a good hard puncher would take him out. Ask Odo or unitas about him...sean, of course, knows everything.

You are wrong about Andrade...he has an iron chin and a coeur de lion...someone like Froch would not be able to stop him and would most likely lose on points. Someone like Berrio, would get stopped, with that shakey chin. Boxers would do well against him though, because he is not so mobile or enterprising.

[Decebal]

Pimp C's list:

Super Middleweight
Champion: Joe Calzaghe
1.Mikkel Kessler
2.Anthony Mundine
3.Lucian Bute
4.Jeff Lacy
5.Marcus Beyer
6.Librado Andrade
7.Edison Miranda
8.Carl Froch
9.Allan Green
10.Jean Pascal

[Decebal]

Zakman's list:

1.Joe Calzaghe
2. Lucian Bute
3. Mikkel Kessler
4. Anthony Mundine
5. Librado Andrade
6. Alan Green
7. Carl Froch
8. Sakio Bika
9. Jeff Lacy
10. Denis Inklin

[Decebal]

brooklyn1550's list:

Champion: Joe Calzaghe
1. Mikkel Kessler
2. Lucian Bute
3. Anthony Mundine
4. Jeff Lacy
5. Librado Andrade
6. Dennis Inkin
7. Jurgen Brahmer
8. Markus Beyer
9. Edison Miranda
10. Allan Green

[Decebal]

kg0208's list:

Champion: Joe Calzaghe

Lucian Bute
Mikkel Kessler
Anthony Mundine
Carl Froch
Marcus Beyer
Librado Andrade
Jeff Lacy
Edison Miranda
Alan Green
Alejandro Berrio

[Decebal]

sean's list!:happy

1/calzaghe
2/kessler
3/bute
4/mundine
5/inkin
6/froch
7/andrade
8/miranda
9/larsen
10/bika

i wont rank lacy as top 10 until i see if he is back v manfredo, if he looks sharp and does a number on manfredo as he should he will go back in at 6.

larsen will be a surprise and not on most lists but he is a very good technical boxer, his only drawback is he thinks to much in the ring and does not let it flow, but if you come onto him, he is a great counterpuncher.

miranda`s win over green puts him at 8 even if it was at the weight below, porras win means nothing.

[Decebal]

Strange that some people have Kessler over Bute in the rankings...how can this be? Bute couldn't beat Kessler? Not even Bute thinks he could beat Kessler now...he says he needs to learn and develop, needing at least a good couple of fights until he can compete with the likes of Joe and Mikkel. He is right! He needs to work on that defence and maintain that speed - perhaps he needs to work on tha stamina too...

And what is Beyer doing in the Top 10? Beyer is de facto retired! Isn't he?

[Decebal]

1. Joe
2. Mikkel
----------------
3-4. Lucian, Choc
----------------
5-8. Lacy, Andrade, Froch, Inkin - don't know which order...
----------------
9-10. Tsypko, Bika
----------------
11-13. Braehmer, Miranda, Pascal - don't know which order...

Difficult to say who will be better in their next fight out of Lacy and Andrade...also, it's difficult to say how good they are compared to Froch...I overrated Inkin, I think...I expect Froch would stop Inkin, but I am not sure overall he is better than Inkin...

What are your thoughts?

[PrideOfWales]

1. Joe
2. Mikkel
----------------
3-4. Lucian, Choc
----------------
5-8. Lacy, Andrade, Froch, Inkin - don't know which order...
----------------
9-10. Tsypko, Bika
----------------
11-13. Braehmer, Miranda, Pascal - don't know which order...

Difficult to say who will be better in their next fight out of Lacy and Andrade...also, it's difficult to say how good they are compared to Froch...I overrated Inkin, I think...I expect Froch would stop Inkin, but I am not sure overall he is better than Inkin...

What are your thoughts?


Calzaghe - no dispute
Kessler - showed enough in defeat to Calzaghe to suggest he's easily the 2nd best at 168
Bute - Improving all the time. Has weaknesses that Kessler/Calzaghe would exploit but I'd back him against everyone else.
Froch - Question marks about his fitness (knee) but has very good power and chin in this division. Seen as a bit of a joke in the UK and needs to step up his opposition but he has the beating of those beneath.
Lacy - More question marks. Needs a good showing against Manfredo and then a serious test to prove me right but I think he has a lot more to offer than the Calzaghe fight.
Mundine - He's over-rated. Massive question marks about his eye and his chin. Has lost every time he's stepped up his opposition and is getting old.
Inkin - Has raised more issues about himself than anything else from his fight with Bruer. Can obviously box but can be decked.
Miranda - Fringe at best with Calzaghe/Kessler around but will be in the mix when they leave for pastures new.
Braehmer - Gets in ahead of Bika due to Bika's losses (though against top opposition). Like most SMW's, he needs to step up in class and fight the guys above him to improve his rating, would like to see him vs Froch.
Bika - Has been in the mix with the best in the division. Popular figure now but limited boxer.No place in my top 10 for Andrade, Tsykpo, Manfredo, Green, Berrio (retired), Pascal or Stieglitz but they'd make up the next few in some order.

[Decebal]

Calzaghe - no dispute
Kessler - showed enough in defeat to Calzaghe to suggest he's easily the 2nd best at 168
Bute - Improving all the time. Has weaknesses that Kessler/Calzaghe would exploit but I'd back him against everyone else.
Froch - Question marks about his fitness (knee) but has very good power and chin in this division. Seen as a bit of a joke in the UK and needs to step up his opposition but he has the beating of those beneath.
Lacy - More question marks. Needs a good showing against Manfredo and then a serious test to prove me right but I think he has a lot more to offer than the Calzaghe fight.
Mundine - He's over-rated. Massive question marks about his eye and his chin. Has lost every time he's stepped up his opposition and is getting old.
Inkin - Has raised more issues about himself than anything else from his fight with Bruer. Can obviously box but can be decked.
Miranda - Fringe at best with Calzaghe/Kessler around but will be in the mix when they leave for pastures new.
Braehmer - Gets in ahead of Bika due to Bika's losses (though against top opposition). Like most SMW's, he needs to step up in class and fight the guys above him to improve his rating, would like to see him vs Froch.
Bika - Has been in the mix with the best in the division. Popular figure now but limited boxer.No place in my top 10 for Andrade, Tsykpo, Manfredo, Green, Berrio (retired), Pascal or Stieglitz but they'd make up the next few in some order.

I agree there are questionmarks over Lacy...and even about Mundine. Hmmm...but maybe as sean says...Lacy should be taken out of consideration because he is still injured...
But I give them the benefit of the doubt. Mundine v. Bika would answer all questions.

If Froch beats Inkin...I would even put him 3rd-4th...but he has not shown the kind of form that would make me put him 4th as of yet...good news is we don't have much to wait to see how good Froch really is...:good

[Odo]

Its amazing to see how many people are putting the glorified clubfighter Librado Andrade in their top20.

1. Calzaghe - Undisputed champion
2 . Kessler - Still a cut above the rest

-------------------------------

3. Bute - Good win over Bika and IBF champion
4. Lacy - Only loss to Calzaghe, look for strong future performances
5. Mundine - Needs better comepetition to move up further


--------------------------------------------------------

6. Inkin - Undefeated
7. Froch - Needs higher competition to move up
8. Bika - Vastly improved over losses to Calza and Bute

-------------------------------------------------------

9. Miranda - I love 9,10,11
10. Green
11. Zuniga - Especially Zuniga, hes gonna do damage in future.

------------------------------------------------------------------

12.Typsko
13.Brahmer
14.Pascal
15.Berrio


16+ = Stieglitz, Soliman, Codrington, Manfredo etc etc......


At no point should Librado Andrade be including in any "top" SMW list.

I'd also like to point out that I dont actually know that much on my 13. Brahmer or however its spelt. I might be over-rating him or underrating him accordingly.

Berrio shouldnt be in your list! Stieglitz stopped him in their first encounter,and would probably have stopped him in their second encounter as well if he hadnt run into one of Berrio's haymakers.Stieglitz is head and shoulders over Berrion in terms of skills and talent.I woudl rank him higher than the very one-dimensional Columbian.

As for Lacy he also lost to Tsypko.I dont care what the official score cards said after that fight.Whoever watched that fight could see with his very own eyes that Tsypko should have been the official victor of that fight.

As for Bika I for my part think that he is a bit overrated.Dont get me wrong! He is a good fighter,but not really a top 10 fighter at supermiddle IMO.

[Decebal]

So...how have things changed for you after that disappointing and damning performance from Jeff Lacy?

[PrideOfWales]

Lacy drops right down to 10... one more showing like that and he's out completely. Everyone else moves up one accordingly.

[Decebal]

Lacy drops right down to 10... one more showing like that and he's out completely. Everyone else moves up one accordingly.

Good call!:good

[PrideOfWales]

Good call!:good

As hard as it seems to be - he was slower than against Calzaghe, neglected any kind of punch that resembled a jab and has lost power. I reckon that shoulder is really fucked up. He's been earmarked by up and coming SMW's as a test the water fighter I reckon.

And Dan Birmingham... jesus, I am lost for words how ineffective this individual is for Lacy.

[Decebal]

As hard as it seems to be - he was slower than against Calzaghe, neglected any kind of punch that resembled a jab and has lost power. I reckon that shoulder is really fucked up. He's been earmarked by up and coming SMW's as a test the water fighter I reckon.

And Dan Birmingham... jesus, I am lost for words how ineffective this individual is for Lacy.

Yeah...all those who are afraid to take on Bika will go for Lacy...:)

Dan Birmingham is bad for Lacy...very bad...

[TFFP]

Calzaghe
Kessler
Mundine
Froch
Bute
Inkin

[Decebal]

Calzaghe
Kessler
Mundine
Froch
Bute
Inkin

Bute a top 5 SMW?! Whatever next!:bart

[TFFP]

I think Froch can move up to 3 in the near future

[PrideOfWales]

Calzaghe
Kessler
Mundine
Froch
Bute
Inkin

I find it impossible to rank Froch above Bute at this stage as Froch has faced nobody to test him... and he's 30. And he's flawed. Bute should be above Froch in everyone's list presently.

As for Mundine... pff!

[TFFP]

I've probably overrated Mundine, he's just impressed me on a few occasions

None of these guys outside of JC and Kessler have beaten anybody great, it's pretty much subjective

Froch is going to bang Inkin out, I'm certain of that, and that will put him right up there. Don't see why he can't beat Bute either, these are fights that should be made in the next year

[Decebal]

I think Froch can move up to 3 in the near future

Mate, Froch is the best! Just ask him!

1. Froch
2. Calzaghe
3. Inkin
4. Kessler
5. who cares - certainly not Bute
6. Haussler
7. Manfredo
8. Mundine
9. Sanavia
10. certainly not Bute...

[TFFP]

Froch KO Ali 1

In his own mind

[yesihavearm]

In fairness Lacy's been out for a year with a near career ending injury, of course he would look shit on his first comeback fight.

Agreed, Lacy's short of confidence at the moment as well as ring action.

Yes he looked cumbersome and blunt in the fight against Manfredo, but he was fighting under big pressures and after a long lay-off/surgery.

He needs to fight a couple of bums outside of the top30 to regain confidence before building himself back up again.

I still believe in Jeff.

[Maxime]

Time to update my top15:

Champion: Calzaghe (WBC, WBA & WBO)

01- Kessler
02- Bute (IBF)
03- Mundine
04- Inkin
05- Andrade
06- Braehmer (+1)
07- Froch (+1)
08- Bika (+3)
09- Tsypko
10- Miranda (+2)
11- Pascal (-1)
12- Lacy (-6)
13- Green
14- Zuniga
15- Stieglitz

[Odo]

Time to update my top15:

Champion: Calzaghe (WBC, WBA & WBO)

01- Kessler
02- Bute (IBF)
03- Mundine
04- Inkin
05- Andrade
06- Braehmer (+1)
07- Froch (+1)
08- Bika (+3)
09- Tsypko
10- Miranda (+2)
11- Pascal (-1)
12- Lacy (-6)
13- Green
14- Zuniga
15- Stieglitz


One of the best lists I have seen so far! Well done,maxime!

[Kegsy]

Time to update my top15:

Champion: Calzaghe (WBC, WBA & WBO)

01- Kessler
02- Bute (IBF)
03- Mundine
04- Inkin
05- Andrade
06- Braehmer (+1)
07- Froch (+1)
08- Bika (+3)
09- Tsypko
10- Miranda (+2)
11- Pascal (-1)
12- Lacy (-6)
13- Green
14- Zuniga
15- Stieglitz Yeah that list is pretty spot on, except maybe i feel Lacy is a touch too low.
I would slide Lacy in at 9.

[Decebal]

Time to update my top15:

Champion: Calzaghe (WBC, WBA & WBO)

01- Kessler
02- Bute (IBF)
03- Mundine
04- Inkin
05- Andrade
06- Braehmer (+1)
07- Froch (+1)
08- Bika (+3)
09- Tsypko
10- Miranda (+2)
11- Pascal (-1)
12- Lacy (-6)
13- Green
14- Zuniga
15- Stieglitz

Looks like you think Froch would be beaten by Inkin, Maxime...since you have Andrade under Inkin too...:think

[Maxime]

My updated top15 after this friday.

Champion: Calzaghe (WBC, WBA & WBO)

01- Kessler
02- Bute (IBF)
03- Mundine
04- Inkin
05- Andrade
06- Braehmer
07- Froch
08- Miranda (+2)
09- Bika (-1)
10- Tsypko (-1)
11- Lacy (+1)
12- Green (+1)
13- Zuniga (+1)
14- Stieglitz (+1)
15- Pascal (-4)

[yesihavearm]

Why Andrade At #5 ?

Why ?

[Maxime]

Because I think his pressure style + his chin and power would cause problems to a lot of fighters. Not many fighters could do what Kessler did to Andrade.

I used to think Andrade was pretty limited. And he is... but he has other qualities that makes up for it.

Guys like Allan Green and Jean Pascal are much more talented/skilled. But I'd pick Andrade over both of them in a 12 round fight.

[Decebal]

My updated top15 after this friday.

Champion: Calzaghe (WBC, WBA & WBO)

01- Kessler
02- Bute (IBF)
03- Mundine
04- Inkin
05- Andrade
06- Braehmer
07- Froch
08- Miranda (+2)
09- Bika (-1)
10- Tsypko (-1)
11- Lacy (+1)
12- Green (+1)
13- Zuniga (+1)
14- Stieglitz (+1)
15- Pascal (-4)

Very good list, Maxime, as usual...not sure about Braehmer being as high as that or Inkin being as high as that...Froch looks a li'l bit low, compared to these two. 8-15 are spot on, I think.

[Decebal]

1. Joe - Champion (WBC, WBA, WBO)
2. Mikkel
.............
3.-4. Lucian (IBF), Choc
..............
5.-7. Froch, Andrade, Inkin
..............
8.-11. Tsypko, Sakio, Miranda, Braehmer
...............
12.-15. Lacy, Green, Zuniga, Pascal
...............

[TomaTos]

My shitty top25:
- Did not include Beyer because he's been inactive for more then a year
- Did not include Miranda because he did not fight at 168lbs yet.

Champion: Calzaghe (WBO)

01- Kessler (WBC & WBA)
02- Mundine
03- Bute (IBF)
04- Inkin
05- Andrade
06- Lacy
07- Tsypko
08- Zuniga
09- Braehmer
10- Froch
11- Stieglitz
12- Pascal
13- Bika
14- Mendy
15- Berrio
16- Green
17- Sanavia
18- Soliman
19- Gogiya
20- Manfredo Jr.
21- Larsen
22- Veit
23- Bozic
24- Mock
25- Codrington

Green, Berrio and Bika are better than Lacy, Tsypko and Zuniga. Pascal should not be a top15 yet.

EDIT: you change ur list, ill post mine soon !

[NMUBURNER22]

I didnt know 168 had 25 fighters..that division is trash.

[PrideOfWales]

Champ: Calzaghe (-)

Kessler (-)
Bute (-)
Mundine (+2)
Froch (-1)
Inkin (+1)
Miranda (+1)
Braemer (+1)
Andrade (NE)
Lacy (-5)
Bika (-1)
Tsypko (NE)I have big reservations about Froch due to his dodgy knee. It's all well and good to beat a shot Robin Reid but slips a place due to his performance in that fight. Mundine moving up 2 places is by default of poor showings by Froch and Lacy, not through choice (I'd sooner leave the No 4 spot vacant!). Lacy is the big loser from my last list.

[Decebal]

Champ: Calzaghe (-)

Kessler (-)
Bute (-)
Mundine (+2)
Froch (-1)
Inkin (+1)
Miranda (+1)
Braemer (+1)
Andrade (NE)
Lacy (-5)
Bika (-1)
Tsypko (NE)I have big reservations about Froch due to his dodgy knee. It's all well and good to beat a shot Robin Reid but slips a place due to his performance in that fight. Mundine moving up 2 places is by default of poor showings by Froch and Lacy, not through choice (I'd sooner leave the No 4 spot vacant!). Lacy is the big loser from my last list.

Yeah, I know what you mean about Froch. If he wins though, he could come as far up as 3rd (after Joe and Mikkel), depending on how Bute does against Andrade.

[yesihavearm]

I didnt know 168 had 25 fighters..that division is trash.

Its probably the most talent-deep division outside of WW, you clueless shite

[kirk]

Its probably the most talent-deep division outside of WW, you clueless shite:lol:

[Maxime]

My updated top15 (Feb. 18th 200

Champion: Vacant (Calzaghe moving up to 175lbs)

01- Mikkel Kessler (Former WBC & WBA Champion)
02- Lucian Bute (IBF)
03- Anthony Mundine (WBA)
04- Jermain Taylor (Former 160lbs Undisputed Champion)
05- Denis Inkin
06- Carl Froch
07- Jurgen Braehmer
08- Librado Andrade
09- Edison Miranda
10- Sakio Bika
11- Vitali Tsypko
12- Jeff Lacy
13- Allan Green
14- Robert Stieglitz
15- Jean Pascal

* Added Taylor in 4th based on his past accomplishement at 160lbs.
** Removed Zuniga because he is fighting a title eliminator at 160lbs.
*** Removed Calzaghe because he is fighting Hopkins at 175lbs.

[PrideOfWales]

My updated top15 (Feb. 18th 200

Champion: Vacant (Calzaghe moving up to 175lbs)

01- Mikkel Kessler (Former WBC & WBA Champion)
02- Lucian Bute (IBF)
03- Anthony Mundine (WBA)
04- Jermain Taylor (Former 160lbs Undisputed Champion)
05- Denis Inkin
06- Carl Froch
07- Jurgen Braehmer
08- Librado Andrade
09- Edison Miranda
10- Sakio Bika
11- Vitali Tsypko
12- Jeff Lacy
13- Allan Green
14- Robert Stieglitz
15- Jean Pascal

* Added Taylor in 4th based on his past accomplishement at 160lbs.
** Removed Zuniga because he is fighting a title eliminator at 160lbs.
*** Removed Calzaghe because he is fighting Hopkins at 175lbs.

Anyone else get the feeling that the division is sitting and waiting while Calzaghe has his fight with Hopkins? I can see Taylor vs Beyer or something happening. A former belt holder at 168.

[PrideOfWales]

A question to the people who have gone to the trouble of posting their lists and follow the SMW division:

Assuming Jermain Taylor campaigns at SMW from now on, where would you place him in your list?

[196osh]

I didnt know 168 had 25 fighters..that division is trash.

:rofl :rofl

Retarded ignorent fucker

:smoke

[TFFP]

Updated version:

1. Calzaghe
2. Kessler
3. Bute
4. Mundine
5. Froch
6. Inkin
7. Taylor
8. Brahmer
9. Miranda
10. Bika
11. Lacy
12. Jean Pascal
13. Green
14. Tsypko
15. Stieglitz

[PrideOfWales]

Updated version:

1. Calzaghe
2. Kessler
3. Bute
4. Mundine
5. Froch
6. Inkin
7. Taylor
8. Brahmer
9. Miranda
10. Bika
11. Lacy
12. Jean Pascal
13. Green
14. Tsypko
15. Stieglitz

What are your reasons for putting Froch & Inkin above Taylor? Do you think they both beat him or is it because he hasn't fought against a 168 yet?

[TFFP]

What are your reasons for putting Froch & Inkin above Taylor? Do you think they both beat him or is it because he hasn't fought against a 168 yet?
I think Froch would beat him, I don't know about Inkin but since he is fighting Froch it would be harsh to then put Taylor above him but you could make a case for that. I'm always a bit reluctant to put guys really high before they have proven anything at the weight. 8lbs is a big jump

[PrideOfWales]

I think Froch would beat him, I don't know about Inkin but since he is fighting Froch it would be harsh to then put Taylor above him but you could make a case for that. I'm always a bit reluctant to put guys really high before they have proven anything at the weight. 8lbs is a big jump

But you're sure Calzaghe can bridge a 7lbs jump to LHW and beat da man there!

[Odo]

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Mikkel Kessler
3. Anthony Mundine
4. Lucian Bute
5. Jeff Lacy
6. Carl Froch
7. Markus Beyer
8. Sakio Bika
9. Alejandro Berrio
10. Jean Pascal

11-15 probably includes Allan Green, Vitali Tsypko, Denis Inkin, Jurgen Braehmer and Jean Paul Mendy. 15 - 20 probably includes Librado Andrade, Jaidon Codrington, Mads Larsen, Fulgencio Zuniga, Sam Soliman. 20 - 25 probably includes Manfredo, Reid and a bunch of prospects. Miranda probably pops in at around 10-12 after this weekend.

Inkin for sure belongs among the top 5 of his weight division.No doubt about that! I for my part wouldnt rate the very slow and predictable Berrio among the top 10,and neither would I rate Bika among the top 10.Tyspko would probably beat both Berrio and Bika.Markus Beyer is shot and over the hill IMO.Stieglitz surely belongs among the the top 14-18 fighters of his weight division.Larsen still has the tools to upset some top 10 fighters.Karo Murat is a great talent who may make it among the top 20-25.

[TFFP]

But you're sure Calzaghe can bridge a 7lbs jump to LHW and beat da man there?
Yes I'm certain he can, but then I havn't got him ranked 1 at LHW yet

[Decebal]

I am waiting for Bute v. Joppy (Bute might go down if he doesn't win impressively).

[PrideOfWales]

I am waiting for Bute v. Joppy (Bute might go down if he doesn't win impressively).

When are they fighting?

[Benjiabc]

1- kessler
2- mundine
3- bute
4- froch
5- andrade
6- lacy
7- berrio
8- beyer
9- pascal
10- tsypko
11- bika
12- calzaghe


calzaghe 12th? this is a joke right

[Decebal]

When are they fighting?

29th of February, Montreal

[TFFP]

Bute can't possibly look bad against Joppy

Even if he did, I can never forsee him dropping below Mundine. He's just better than the RJJ wannabe in every respect

Excellent division though

[Decebal]

Bute can't possibly look bad against Joppy

Even if he did, I can never forsee him dropping below Mundine. He's just better than the RJJ wannabe in every respect

Excellent division though

If he doesn't show an improvement in defence against a shot Joppy; if he doesn't move his head more and if he doesn't show he can react to Joppy's style early on, he hasn't improved and needs to fall behind Mundine, in my book, whether he stops him or not.

[TFFP]

If he doesn't show an improvement in defence against a shot Joppy; if he doesn't move his head more and if he doesn't show he can react to Joppy's style early on, he hasn't improved and needs to fall behing Mundine, in my book.
How do you think Mundine - Bute plays out?

[Paulie]

1-Bute
2-Calzaghe
3-Kessler
4-Froch
5-Andrade
6-Mundine
7-Pascal
8-Taylor
9-Bika
10-Miranda

[Decebal]

How do you think Mundine - Bute plays out?

50/50 depending on how they show up on the night. In a year's, time I'd favour Bute though.

[Decebal]

1-Bute
2-Calzaghe
3-Kessler
4-Froch
5-Andrade
6-Mundine
7-Pascal
8-Taylor
9-Bika
10-Miranda

Uff...the worst I've seen by far!:-(

[TFFP]

1-Bute
2-Calzaghe
3-Kessler
4-Froch
5-Andrade
6-Mundine
7-Pascal
8-Taylor
9-Bika
10-Miranda
Ignoring your Canadian manlove for Bute and Jean Pascal for a second, why have you got Andrade so high?

Apart from having a steel jaw, that guy can't box.

[Paulie]

TFFP...Andrade have some good power, a big heart and a steel jaw... I think it's enought...and he also fight good opposition...

Decebal...where is your so perfect list ? !!!

[Decebal]

TFFP...Andrade have some good power, a big heart and a steel jaw... I think it's enought...and he also fight good opposition...

Decebal...where is your so perfect list ? !!!

This is my previous list...I've added Taylor.

1. Joe - Champion (WBC, WBA, WBO)
2. Mikkel
.............
3.-4. Lucian (IBF), Choc,
5. Taylor
..............
6.-8. Froch, Andrade, Inkin
..............
9.-12. Tsypko, Sakio, Miranda, Braehmer
...............
13.-15. Lacy, Green, Pascal
...............

[Paulie]

Decebal...your list is not bad...except for the position 1,2 and 3...

[TFFP]

Decebal...your list is not bad...except for the position 1,2 and 3...
It's pretty bad then :lol:

Those are the positions to get correct

[PrideOfWales]

If we all had the same opinion, there wouldn't be a forum.

[Paulie]

good words PrideOfWales...

[Weber]

good words PrideOfWales...

Perhaps, but you would have to be either blind or stupid to rank Bute above JC.

[Astola]

Perhaps, but you would have to be either blind or stupid to rank Bute above JC.
:yep

Good post!

[Paulie]

I don't think I'm stupid to rank Bute above Calzaghe. They are both champion..they have both fight Salem and Bika. Bute did better both time...What so stupid about it ?

[TFFP]

I don't think I'm stupid to rank Bute above Calzaghe. They are both champion..they have both fight Salem and Bika. Bute did better both time...What so stupid about it ?
Maybe because Calzaghe has beat Kessler and Lacy, who were both top 3 at the time?!

I don't even know why I'm answering, I know your vision is blurred by maple red ;)

[Paulie]

I think Bute would also beat Lacy and Kessler...and you probably think the same...

[Decebal]

Paulie...why are you doing this? Bute himself said he was nowhere close to competing against the likes of Calzaghe and Kessler, who were in a different league from his...come on, mate! Give it a rest. Not funny anymore. :deal

[Weber]

I don't think I'm stupid to rank Bute above Calzaghe. They are both champion..they have both fight Salem and Bika. Bute did better both time...What so stupid about it ?

That does not make them equal. Bute only has the IBF-belt because Joe didn't care to take the mandatory fights to defend it. And Joe is a known underachiever in his lesser fights. Don't get me wrong, Bute is a good boxer, one of the guys in the mix-up for future dominance of the division, but let's not lose our heads here. Joe is universally recognized champion, usually ranked just behind Mayweather on p4p-lists - Bute has had two or three fights worth to mention.

[TFFP]

I think Bute would also beat Lacy and Kessler...and you probably think the same...
Err, he beats todays Lacy for sure, Kessler I very much doubt

Besides, ratings have to be done partly on what they have actually achieved, not what they might achieve

[Paulie]

Decebal have you talk with Bute lately ? Bute is ready to fight Taylor with only 22 or 23 fights in him. Calzaghe was ready after over 40 fights...you're the one who is funny...please stop it now !

[Decebal]

Decebal have you talk with Bute lately ? Bute is ready to fight Taylor with only 22 or 23 fights in him. Calzaghe was ready after over 40 fights...you're the one who is funny...please stop it now !

:lol:

So...how does that prove Bute thinks he could beat Calzaghe?:huh Since when are Taylor and Calzaghe equally hard to beat?

Why, did he tell you privately he could?:p

[Paulie]

Tne only thing I can say is : It was not a surprising for anyone went Calzaghe decided to move up at 175...

[Decebal]

Tne only thing I can say is : It was not a surprising for anyone went Calzaghe decided to move up at 175...

It sure wasn't! He had done it all at SMW and Hopkins wouldn't come down to 168...:yep

[Paulie]

oh yeah ! Hopkins...this old timer fighter...

[Decebal]

oh yeah ! Hopkins...this old timer fighter...

Paulie: who would win at 175? Diaconu or Bute?

[Paulie]

I told you already...Dorin...:o

[Maxime]

Don't bother with Paulie. He's a troll or a nuthugger.... you choose. :D

[Paulie]

Maxime, went you don't have nothing to say...shut up...so... shut up most of the time !! :o

[Odo]

This is my previous list...I've added Taylor.

1. Joe - Champion (WBC, WBA, WBO)
2. Mikkel
.............
3.-4. Lucian (IBF), Choc,
5. Taylor
..............
6.-8. Froch, Andrade, Inkin
..............
9.-12. Tsypko, Sakio, Miranda, Braehmer
...............
13.-15. Lacy, Green, Pascal
...............
Good list,decebal.I would probably kick Miranda out of the top 10 in my one,but all in all a damn good list,my Canadien friend.

[Maxime]

My updated top15
-May 9th 2008-

Champion: Vacant

01- Mikkel Kessler (Former WBC & WBA Champion)
02- Lucian Bute (IBF)
03- Anthony Mundine (WBA)
04- Jermain Taylor (Former 160lbs Undisputed Champion)
05- Librado Andrade
06- Edison Miranda
07- Sakio Bika
08- Carl Froch
09- Denis Inkin
10- Vitali Tsypko
11- Jeff Lacy
12- Andre Dirrell
13- Allan Green
14- Jean Pascal
15- Andre Ward

* Tried to focus more on recent accomplishment instead of "who would beat who".
** Zuniga remains out until he fights Pascal.
*** Braehmer is out. Moved up to 175lbs.
**** Ward and Dirrell in based on recent fights.
***** Froch and Inkin down a bit since they've really fought nobody.

[Odo]

1. Joe Calzaghe
2. Mikkel Kessler
3. Lucien Bute
4. Anthony Mundine
5. Dennis Inkin
6. Jurgen Brahmer
7. Librado Andrade
8. Carl Froch
10. Vitaly Tsypko
11. Alejandro Berrio
12. Jean Pascal
13. Jeff Lacy
14. Allan Green
15. Fulgencio Zuniga
16. Cristian Sanavia
17. Sakio Bika
18. Peter Manfredo
19. Mads Larsen
20. Jean Paul Mendy
20. Jaidon Codrington

Couldn't put Miranda up yet I have to see him at SMW.

All in all a very good list! Well done! Stieglitz probably deserves a spot around the nr.18-20. Karo Murat and Karoly Balszay hang around the nr.20 position as well.

[ghostlybadge]

didnt see the dates on the first page and saw someone put JC at 12 i nearly fell over laughing.

[168 lbs]

My updated top15
-May 9th 2008-

Champion: Vacant

01- Mikkel Kessler (Former WBC & WBA Champion)
02- Lucian Bute (IBF)
03- Anthony Mundine (WBA)
04- Jermain Taylor (Former 160lbs Undisputed Champion)
05- Librado Andrade
06- Edison Miranda
07- Sakio Bika
08- Carl Froch
09- Denis Inkin
10- Vitali Tsypko
11- Jeff Lacy
12- Andre Dirrell
13- Allan Green
14- Jean Pascal
15- Andre Ward

* Tried to focus more on recent accomplishment instead of "who would beat who".
** Zuniga remains out until he fights Pascal.
*** Braehmer is out. Moved up to 175lbs.
**** Ward and Dirrell in based on recent fights.
***** Froch and Inkin down a bit since they've really fought nobody.

That's a fine list, feller.

Not sure about Bute and Miranda being so high, though.

Ward and Dirrell, yeah, I liked that!

[Decebal]

This is my previous list...I've added Taylor.

1. Joe - Champion (WBC, WBA, WBO)
2. Mikkel
.............
3.-4. Lucian (IBF), Choc,
5. Taylor
..............
6.-8. Froch, Andrade, Inkin
..............
9.-12. Tsypko, Sakio, Miranda, Braehmer
...............
13.-15. Lacy, Green, Pascal
...............

1. Kessler
........................
2. Bute
3. Taylor
........................
4. Andrade
5. Froch
6. Inkin
........................
7. Tsypko
8. Bika
9. Miranda
10. Lacy


I'm taking Calzaghe, Braehmer and Mundine out. I am looking forward to Pascal v. Zuniga. The winner I would say deserves a place in the top 10, just about...

[Maxime]

That's a fine list, feller.

Not sure about Bute and Miranda being so high, though.

Ward and Dirrell, yeah, I liked that!
Name me a fighter who had better opposition (victories) at 168lbs?

Outside Kessler and possibly Mundine. There is no one.

[168 lbs]

I think Taylor is better and he's beaten much better opposition. He fought at 164 lbs last time around too and looked very good.

I think Andrade's better too.

Even Froch probably beats him the way Bute fights so scared.

I'm just not sold on the guy is all.

[pipe wrenched]

I think Taylor is better and he's beaten much better opposition. He fought at 164 lbs last time around too and looked very good.

I think Andrade's better too.

Even Froch probably beats him the way Bute fights so scared.

I'm just not sold on the guy is all.

What fight/fights did you see Bute fighting "scared" in??

He will bust Andrade's ass.

[168 lbs]

Saw Bute against Bika, Berrio and Joppy. Didn't want to engage much against Bika, fought scared against Berrio's punch and played with Joppy like a cat with a mouse, instead of finishing the job. Well, he won't be able to do that against Andrade, that's for sure. Same goes for Froch, I figure. Wouldn't be surprised if he folded.

[pipe wrenched]

Saw Bute against Bika, Berrio and Joppy. Didn't want to engage much against Bika, fought scared against Berrio's punch and played with Joppy like a cat with a mouse, instead of finishing the job. Well, he won't be able to do that against Andrade, that's for sure. Same goes for Froch, I figure. Wouldn't be surprised if he folded.

:bart

[Decebal]

Saw Bute against Bika, Berrio and Joppy. Didn't want to engage much against Bika, fought scared against Berrio's punch and played with Joppy like a cat with a mouse, instead of finishing the job. Well, he won't be able to do that against Andrade, that's for sure. Same goes for Froch, I figure. Wouldn't be surprised if he folded.

Just wait and see - he'll beat Andrade and if Froch wins that belt and if he fancies that unification fight, he'll beat him too!;)

[pipe wrenched]

Just wait and see - he'll beat Andrade and if Froch wins that belt and if he fancies that unification fight, he'll beat him too!;)

Damn straight.

[Amsterdam]

1. Mikkel
........................
2. Bute
3. Taylor
........................
4. Andrade
5. Froch
6. Inkin
........................
7. Tsypko
8. Bika
9. Miranda
10. Lacy


I'm taking Calzaghe, Braehmer and Mundine out. I am looking forward to Pascal v. Zuniga. The winner I would say deserves a place in the top 10, just about...

Taylor has yet to make a SMW debut, very suspect putting him at #3. Fight a top 10 SMW for that, but they'll likely throw him in with a SMW can just to get him a ranking, even though he wont deserve.

Miranda also has yet to fight a top 10 SMW. Work in the weak MW division has nothing to do with SMW.

Meanwhile Andrade KOed a top 10 with Stieglitz, KOed a top 15 with Mack. He's over Taylor 100, Taylor's not a better fighter anyway.

[Decebal]

Taylor has yet to make a SMW debut, very suspect putting him at #3. Fight a top 10 SMW for that, but they'll likely throw him in with a SMW can just to get him a ranking, even though he wont deserve.

Miranda also has yet to fight a top 10 SMW. Work in the weak MW division has nothing to do with SMW.

Meanwhile Andrade KOed a top 10 with Stieglitz, KOed a top 15 with Mack. He's over Taylor 100, Taylor's not a better fighter anyway.

I like Taylor so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. It's true, though, that I've planted him there rather arbitrarily...

I have no problem with Andrade coming under Bute...

[Decebal]

Damn straight.

;)

[teke]

Just wait and see - he'll beat Andrade and if Froch wins that belt and if he fancies that unification fight, he'll beat him too!;)I agree Bute will beat Froch, i think he will pick him apart with clean punches. Froch seems to have a good chin and power but very leaky defence.

[Amsterdam]

I like Taylor so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. It's true, though, that I've planted him there rather arbitrarily...

I have no problem with Andrade coming under Bute...

Why? By the time he gets in there with a top SMW, he will no longer be a top 10.:good

[Decebal]

I agree Bute will beat Froch, i think he will pick him apart with clean punches. Froch seems to have a good chin and power but very leaky defence.

:yikes

teke, is that you?:blood

[Lance_Uppercut]

Why? By the time he gets in there with a top SMW, he will no longer be a top 10.:good

Funny....didn't see your list here.

[Decebal]

Why? By the time he gets in there with a top SMW, he will no longer be a top 10.:good

I like him because he's a nice guy, because he fights the best and because he insisted on rematching Pavlik even without the belt on the line and because he improved after his loss. I think he will perform better at 168 lbs than at 160 lbs, even though, relatively speaking, that might not be apparent.

[Decebal]

Funny....didn't see your list here.

...yes, Amsterdam...what is your current list? Make it top 15 if you like...:D

[Amsterdam]

I like him because he's a nice guy, because he fights the best and because he insisted on rematching Pavlik even without the belt on the line and because he improved after his loss. I think he will perform better at 168 lbs than at 160 lbs, even though, relatively speaking, that might not be apparent.

By the time he gets brutally dominated by a standard top 10 SMW, the fans will then just hype on the SMW in question, thus the vicious overhyping involved with overrated fighters continue.

If everyone would just accept that Taylor's a decent fighter, we wouldn't have this issue, but instead, he has to be hyped up to P4P ability.

[Decebal]

By the time he gets brutally dominated by a standard top 10 SMW, the fans will then just hype on the SMW in question, thus the vicious overhyping involved with overrated fighters continue.

If everyone would just accept that Taylor's a decent fighter, we wouldn't have this issue, but instead, he has to be hyped up to P4P ability.

We'll see...hope Taylor fights Bute first!:D

(Taylor has a good jab and a good right and that's good enough to give Bute a hard time, I guess)

[Amsterdam]

We'll see...hope Taylor fights Bute first!:D

(Taylor has a good jab and a good right and that's good enough to give Bute a hard time, I guess)

Bute 8-4, cleaner than pavlik took it second time around. Don't rule out a late TKO either, Taylor gasses. Bute will drop the rounds on tentativeness, but really pick up and start outboxing Taylor with his superior speed and timing.

[Lance_Uppercut]

Aside from Froch, Kessler, Bute, Miranda, Calzaghe, and a few other contenders, I haven't seen enough SprMW's fight to make a genuine list.

[teke]

:yikes

teke, is that you?:bloodWhy are you so surprised :twisted:

Just commenting on what i have seen from both.

Bute UD Froch :deal

[Decebal]

Why are you so surprised :twisted:

Just commenting on what i have seen from both.

Bute UD Froch :deal

...teke's little brother messing around...:-(

Everyone knows the real teke is a massive Wallabies fan!:bart

[Maxime]

I think Taylor is better and he's beaten much better opposition. He fought at 164 lbs last time around too and looked very good.

I think Andrade's better too.

Even Froch probably beats him the way Bute fights so scared.

I'm just not sold on the guy is all.

I'm don't make my ranking based on what if, A -vs- B or potential.

I base my rankings base on recent accomplishment.

The fact that Bute ranked higher then Taylor, Miranda, Andrade, Froch, etc... does not mean I believe he would easily beat all those guys. It just means he has done more at 168lbs.

[teke]

...teke's little brother messing around...:-(

Everyone knows the real teke is a massive Wallabies fan!:bartWatch your F'n mouth, never ever call me a Wallabies Fan ever again :deal

June 07 we start our 08 Domination vs the Hapless Irish :deal

[Decebal]

Watch your F'n mouth, never ever call me a Wallabies Fan ever again :deal

June 07 we start our 08 Domination vs the Hapless Irish :deal

Yes, of course, let's drink to that!:lol:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

:smooch

[Maxime]

My updated top15
-June 24th 2008-

Champion: Vacant

01- Mikkel Kessler (WBA)
02- Lucian Bute (IBF)
03- Librado Andrade
04- Sakio Bika
05- Carl Froch
06- Denis Inkin
07- Edison Miranda
08- Fulgencio Zuniga
09- Alejandro Berrio
10- Vitali Tsypko
11- Jeff Lacy
12- Andre Ward
13- Andre Dirrell
14- Allan Green
15- Jean Pascal

*I made many changes. I'll update again next month. :D

[Coogee2034]

y is allen green so highly rated he such a bum

[Clearly Cool]

This division is one of the best.

[TheH1tMan]

Maxime I like your list but think there are a couple of positions that are a bit off.

My top 17:

Champion: Vacant

01- Mikkel Kessler (WBA)
02- Anthony Mundine (if we should still rank him, which is not certain)
03- Lucian Bute (IBF)
04- Librado Andrade
05- Carl Froch
06- Denis Inkin
07- Jeff Lacy
08- Edison Miranda
09- Fulgencio Zuniga
10- Alejandro Berrio
11- Sakio Bika
12- Vitali Tsypko
13- Mads Larsen
14- Andre Ward
15- Andre Dirrell
16- Allan Green
17- Jean Pascal

[Fat Tony]

This division is one of the best.

It's a deep divison with a lot of potential. But I don't think it's one of the best divisions because there's no top15 p4p boxer in the division.
And the biggest problem is that its best boxers don't face each other.

[Maxime]

It's a deep divison with a lot of potential. But I don't think it's one of the best divisions because there's no top15 p4p boxer in the division.
And the biggest problem is that its best boxers don't face each other.

I guess you missed Calzaghe-Kessler. ;)

[TommyV]

1 Joe Calzaghe
-------------------
2 Mikkel Kessler
3 Lucian Bute
-------------------
4 Anthony Mundine
5 Carl Froch
6 Jermain Taylor
7 Librado Andrade
--------------------
8 Edison Miranda
9 Denis Inkin
10 Jean Pascal
11 Fulgencio Zuniga
12 Sakio Bika
13 Jeff Lacy
14 Allan Green
15 Alejandro Berrio
16 Dimitri Sartison
17 Vitali Tsypko
--------------------
18 Andre Dirrell
19 Andre Ward
20 Karoly Balzsay
21 Peter Manfredo Jr
22 Jaidon Codrington
23 Victor Oganov
24 Jean Paul Mendy
25 Anthony Hanshaw

Rushed it. It's appalling I know. :yep

[TheH1tMan]

1 Joe Calzaghe
-------------------
2 Mikkel Kessler
3 Lucian Bute
-------------------
4 Anthony Mundine
5 Carl Froch
6 Jermain Taylor
7 Librado Andrade
--------------------
8 Edison Miranda
9 Denis Inkin
10 Jean Pascal
11 Fulgencio Zuniga
12 Sakio Bika
13 Jeff Lacy
14 Allan Green
15 Alejandro Berrio
16 Dimitri Sartison
17 Vitali Tsypko
--------------------
18 Andre Dirrell
19 Andre Ward
20 Karoly Balzsay
21 Peter Manfredo Jr
22 Jaidon Codrington
23 Victor Oganov
24 Jean Paul Mendy
25 Anthony Hanshaw

Rushed it. It's appalling I know. :yep

Its pretty ok. Only - Mads Larsen?

[Decebal]

My updated top15
-June 24th 2008-

Champion: Vacant

01- Mikkel Kessler (WBA)
02- Lucian Bute (IBF)
03- Librado Andrade
04- Sakio Bika
05- Carl Froch
06- Denis Inkin
07- Edison Miranda
08- Fulgencio Zuniga
09- Alejandro Berrio
10- Vitali Tsypko
11- Jeff Lacy
12- Andre Ward
13- Andre Dirrell
14- Allan Green
15- Jean Pascal

*I made many changes. I'll update again next month. :D

Miranda at 7? :p Is the division that shallow?:think

Bika better than Froch/Inkin? Is that based on the fact that we know how Bika does against the best or on the fact that you'd pick him to beat Froch/Inkin, Maxime?:think

[Fat Tony]

Bika better than Froch/Inkin? Is that based on the fact that we know how Bika does against the best or on the fact that you'd pick him to beat Froch/Inkin, Maxime?:think

Bika better than Froch/Inkin? Is that based on the fact that he lost against Bute? Andrade at #3: Is that based on the fact that he will probably face Bute? ;)

[Decebal]

Bika better than Froch/Inkin? Is that based on the fact that he lost against Bute? Andrade at #3: Is that based on the fact that he will probably face Bute? ;)

Maxime is not like that!:bart

He is a fair, objective, very good poster!:deal

:good ;)

[Fat Tony]

Maxime is not like that!:bart

He is a fair, objective, very good poster!:deal

:good ;)

He's one of my favourites posters, too. :good

[Decebal]

He's one of my favourites posters, too. :good
Yes...unlike most of the other good posters, he never takes himself too seriously, he doesn't run agendas, he is respectful of everyone's view, etc. A bit like sean!:D

[TheH1tMan]

Bika better than Froch/Inkin? Is that based on the fact that he lost against Bute? Andrade at #3: Is that based on the fact that he will probably face Bute? ;)

I have to admit that I thought the same when I saw the list. It is a little too conveniently taylored to make Bute look good. Having said that Maxime is a good poster overall, but he sure does like Bute.

[Maxime]

Bika better than Froch/Inkin? Is that based on the fact that he lost against Bute? Andrade at #3: Is that based on the fact that he will probably face Bute? ;)
No, it's base on the fact that Froch and Inkin have fought and beat no one.

I base my ranking on recent accomplishment not things a fighter "might" do when he finally steps up.

Beside, I never pretended like my rankings are perfect. :D Which is why I update them about once a month. hehe

[LFC]

No, it's base on the fact that Froch and Inkin have fought and beat no one.

Veit, even the shot version of him Inkin beat, is better than anyone Bika's beaten.

[Maxime]

By the way guys. I did not promote Andrade or Bika and I did not move down Inkin and Froch. They actually all moved up. ;)

The changes came when I moved down Miranda following his lost to Abraham and removed Taylor since he won't be fighting a legitimate super middleweight until the end of the year. I also removed Mundine because he dropped his belt and he's moving down to 160lbs. I brought back in guys like Zuniga and Berrio.

Old VS New!

01- Mikkel Kessler - Mikkel Kessler *No Change
02- Lucian Bute - Lucian Bute *No Change
03- Anthony Mundine - Andrade (+2) *Mundine OUT!
04- Jermain Taylor - Bika (+3) *Taylor OUT!
05- Librado Andrade - Froch (+3)
06- Edison Miranda - Inkin (+3)
07- Sakio Bika - Miranda (-1)
08- Carl Froch - Zuniga *New Entry
09- Denis Inkin - Berrio *New Entry
10- Vitali Tsypko - Tsypko *No Change

[Maxime]

Veit, even the shot version of him Inkin beat, is better than anyone Bika's beaten.
That's debatable. ;)

I see Veit as not much more then a skilled journeyman.

[LFC]

That's debatable. ;)

I see Veit as not much more then a skilled journeyman.

But you wrote you base your rankings on accomplishments?

[Maxime]

But you wrote you base your rankings on accomplishments?

Accomplishments does not necessarily mean victory.

In my opinion, competitive performances against Calzaghe, Bute and Beyer. Plus a win over Codrington is a better accomplishment then beating Veit + 31 bums or guys with padded records.

The guy has talent. No one will deny that. But he has fought no one other then Veit. I can't rate him over Bika base on what he might do. We know what Bika can do. Everything about Inkin is speculation only.

[THN]

Sartison belongs in top 15 in my oponion

[Maxime]

Sartison belongs in top 15 in my oponion

I agree that he proved his worth against Kessler but who would you replace him with?

Jean Pascal perhaps? :huh

[Maxime]

Here is a quick breakdown. It's not perfect obviously and I would need to write paragraphe to explain all the choices. But here it is anyway.


01- Mikkel Kessler: Wins over Mundine, Andrade & Beyer. Very good performance against Calzaghe.

02- Lucian Bute: Wins over Bika & Berrio.

03- Librado Andrade: Wins over Mack and Stieglitz.

04- Sakio Bika: Win over Codrington and competitive fights with Calzaghe, Bute and Beyer.

05- Carl Froch: Decent wins over Reid & Magee.

06- Denis Inkin: Win over Veit.

07- Edison Miranda: Win over Green.

08- Fulgencio Zuniga: Win over Oganov, Zertuche, Echols and a war with Pavlik.

09- Alejandro Berrio: Wins over Stieglitz, Mack and Vanderpool.

10- Vitali Tsypko: Controversial lost to Lacy and win over Gogiya.

11- Jeff Lacy: Controversial win over Tsypko + win against against Manfredo. Riding off his reign as the IBF Champion.

12- Andre Ward: Wins over Williams and Ravelo.

13- Andre Dirrell: Wins over Stevens and Hanshaw.

14- Allan Green: Wins over Codrington, Ravelo and William.

15- Jean Pascal: Win over Ikeke.

[THN]

I agree that he proved his worth against Kessler but who would you replace him with?

Jean Pascal perhaps? :huh
Berrio-Greene-Pascal for sure :good

[Brickhaus]

12- Andre Ward: Wins over Williams and Ravelo.

13- Andre Dirrell: Wins over Stevens and Hanshaw.


IMHO, wins over Stevens and Hanshaw (decent fighters in their primes) is a big step up over wins over shot Williams and visually-impaired Ravelo. Also, honestly, Dirrell just looks much better than Ward. Yes, Dirrell can be sleep-incuding sometimes, but in terms of pure natural talent, he's up there with the best of them at 168.

Also, do you think Ward would beat Miranda? If not, then I'm not sure how you can rank Ward ahead of Green, when Green already beat the best fighters Ward faced, and has also beaten 2 or 3 other decent fighters (Codrington, Bonsante, Linton, etc.).

[TFFP]

1. Kessler
2. Bute
3. Mundine
4. Andrade
5. Froch
6. Inkin
7. Bika
8. Berrio
9. Taylor
10. Pascal

[168 lbs]

Here is a quick breakdown. It's not perfect obviously and I would need to write paragraphe to explain all the choices. But here it is anyway.


01- Mikkel Kessler: Wins over Mundine, Andrade & Beyer. Very good performance against Calzaghe.

02- Lucian Bute: Wins over Bika & Berrio.

03- Librado Andrade: Wins over Mack and Stieglitz.

04- Sakio Bika: Win over Codrington and competitive fights with Calzaghe, Bute and Beyer.

05- Carl Froch: Decent wins over Reid & Magee.

06- Denis Inkin: Win over Veit.

07- Edison Miranda: Win over Green.

08- Fulgencio Zuniga: Win over Oganov, Zertuche, Echols and a war with Pavlik.

09- Alejandro Berrio: Wins over Stieglitz, Mack and Vanderpool.

10- Vitali Tsypko: Controversial lost to Lacy and win over Gogiya.

11- Jeff Lacy: Controversial win over Tsypko + win against against Manfredo. Riding off his reign as the IBF Champion.

12- Andre Ward: Wins over Williams and Ravelo.

13- Andre Dirrell: Wins over Stevens and Hanshaw.

14- Allan Green: Wins over Codrington, Ravelo and William.

15- Jean Pascal: Win over Ikeke.

Where's Jermain "The Main Man" Taylor, feller?

[Brickhaus]

Updating my own list (new rankings in parenthesis):

1. Joe Calzaghe (Kessler)
2. Mikkel Kessler (Bute)
3. Anthony Mundine (Taylor)
4. Lucian Bute (Froch)
5. Jeff Lacy (Lacy)
6. Carl Froch (Beyer)
7. Markus Beyer (Bika)
8. Sakio Bika (Berrio)
9. Alejandro Berrio (Inkin)
10. Jean Pascal (Andrade)

11-15 (range):
Allan Green, Vitali Tsypko, Denis Inkin, Jurgen Braehmer and Jean Paul Mendy (Miranda, Green, Tsypko, Dirrell, Pascal)

15 - 20 (range):
Librado Andrade, Jaidon Codrington, Mads Larsen, Fulgencio Zuniga, Sam Soliman. (Zuniga, Brahmer, Larsen, Ward, Codrington)

20 - 25 (range): Manfredo, Reid and a bunch of prospects. (Still a bunch of prospects)

[Decebal]

Updating my own list (new rankings in parenthesis):

1. Joe Calzaghe (Kessler)
2. Mikkel Kessler (Bute)
3. Anthony Mundine (Taylor)
4. Lucian Bute (Froch)
5. Jeff Lacy (Lacy)
6. Carl Froch (Beyer)
7. Markus Beyer (Bika)
8. Sakio Bika (Berrio)
9. Alejandro Berrio (Inkin)
10. Jean Pascal (Andrade)

11-15 (range):
Allan Green, Vitali Tsypko, Denis Inkin, Jurgen Braehmer and Jean Paul Mendy (Miranda, Green, Tsypko, Dirrell, Pascal)

15 - 20 (range):
Librado Andrade, Jaidon Codrington, Mads Larsen, Fulgencio Zuniga, Sam Soliman. (Zuniga, Brahmer, Larsen, Ward, Codrington)

20 - 25 (range): Manfredo, Reid and a bunch of prospects. (Still a bunch of prospects)

Beyer?:huh

[Stinky gloves]

Beyer?:huh

never heard of ???

[Decebal]

never heard of ???

yeah, heard of, but come on...the guy was never that good to start of with and now he is just earning a bit more money trying to get another shot at the big time...he's not Top 10 now, most likely not even top 20!

[Stinky gloves]

Beyer is definitely better than Lacy ... and you have no objection against him being at #5?

[Decebal]

Beyer is definitely better than Lacy ... and you have no objection against him being at #5?

Not sure whether he's better than Lacy now. But yeah, Lacy is an odd one too...

[Brickhaus]

My rankings are much more based on ring accomplishments than H2H. Lacy and Beyer are obviously much lower H2H.

[Sandmanl337]

01. Mikkel Kessler
02. Lucian Bute
03. Jermain Taylor
04. Carl Froch
05. Librado Andrade
06. Dennis Inkin
07. Sakio Bika
08. Edison Miranda
09. Anthony Mundine
10. Jurgen Brahmer

[Andreikov]

Oh c'mon !!! Beyer is fuck'n shot.

[Maxime]

IMHO, wins over Stevens and Hanshaw (decent fighters in their primes) is a big step up over wins over shot Williams and visually-impaired Ravelo. Also, honestly, Dirrell just looks much better than Ward. Yes, Dirrell can be sleep-incuding sometimes, but in terms of pure natural talent, he's up there with the best of them at 168.

Also, do you think Ward would beat Miranda? If not, then I'm not sure how you can rank Ward ahead of Green, when Green already beat the best fighters Ward faced, and has also beaten 2 or 3 other decent fighters (Codrington, Bonsante, Linton, etc.).

In my opinion, Ward did much better against Ravelo and Williams then Green did. Which is why I rated him higher.

[Maxime]

Where's Jermain "The Main Man" Taylor, feller?

I'm not rating him at 168lbs until he fights a legitimate 168lbs fighter. :D

[Lance_Uppercut]

Mr. Holier then Thou STILL has no list? Not surprised at ALL. :bart

[dawg04]

1.Mikkel kessler
2.Lucian Bute
3.Anthony Mundine
4.Jermain Taylor
5.Librado Andrade
6.Sakio Bika
7.Carl Froch
8.Denis Inkin
9.Allan Green
10.Jeff Lacy

names not far from that direll,tsypko,miranda,larsen,berrio,stieglitz,beyer,pascal,mendy,ward

How you like that

[dawg04]

it can be all different if you take out mundine but i put him there and i took out braehemr since hes a 175 now and i put taylor in the top 5 sinc eh e has the skills even though he didnt beat a supermiddleweight yet

[168 lbs]

I'm not rating him at 168lbs until he fights a legitimate 168lbs fighter. :D

Why are you not rating Mundine at 168 lbs then? He ain't been fighting at any other weight yet. You don't think he belongs in the Top 15?

[TheH1tMan]

Trying to make different division at 168 (within division there as no particular order - and I included Kelly because he said he will be there in 2009):

Division 1:
Kessler, Pavlik, Bute, Taylor, Froch.

Division 2:
Andrade, Inkin, Bika, Lacy, Braehmer

Division 3:
Pascal, Berrio, Bika, Ward, Larsen, Miranda

Division 4:
Dirrell, Mendy, Zuniga, Soliman, Tsypko

Division 5:
Stieglitz, Green, Codrington, Pieterson, Sartison

Division 6:
Oganov, Wilaschek, Hanshaw, Trinidad, Murat,

Division 7:
Balzsay, Brinkley, Manfredo, de Leon, Stevenson

Division 8:
Beyer, Magee, Mock, Gogiya, Ikeke, Echols, Ravelo, Joppy etc etc..

[Decebal]

1. Kessler
........................
2. Bute
3. Taylor
........................
4. Andrade
5. Froch
6. Inkin
........................
7. Tsypko
8. Bika
9. Miranda
10. Lacy


I'm taking Calzaghe, Braehmer and Mundine out. I am looking forward to Pascal v. Zuniga. The winner I would say deserves a place in the top 10, just about...

1. Kessler
2. Bute
3. Andrade
4. Inkin
5. Froch*
6. Bika
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?

...don't know where Taylor fits in yet...presumably in the Top 6.

* gave him the benefit of the doubt, because I'm nice.

Not confident about ranking others like Tsypko, Berrio, Sartison, Larsen, Balzsay, Dirrell, Green, Pascal or anyone else in the Top 10...some might be even better than Inkin, Froch or Bika, but I need to see them again against better opposition to rank them with any confidence.

How about you? What have you got?

[denilo]

This is the official WBA ranking. Great list.
Personally I think that Gusmyl perdomo, Karo Murat, Lukas Wilaschek and perhaps a few others are a little to high!


1. DANILO HAUSSLER (OC) GER
2 GUSMYL PERDOMO (LAC) VEN
3. JEAN PASCAL (NABA) CAN
4. STJEPAN BOZIC (WBA I/C) CRO
5. KARO MURAT (EBU) ITA
6. DIMITRI SARTISON GER
7. MADS LARSEN DEN
8. LUKAS WILASCHEK POL
9. MARCUS JOHNSON USA
10. ALLAN GREEN USA
11. ANDRE WARD USA
12. ANDRE DIRRELL USA
13. JEAN PAUL MENDY FRA
14. VITALY TSYPKO UKR
15. VICTOR OGANOV (PABA)

[Coogee2034]

y is allen green ranked so high???he hasn't fought in ages n hasn't really fought any of note and won

[Stinky gloves]

25 ??? why not top 100 ?

[Decebal]

25 ??? why not top 100 ?

There was a time, long ago, when I thought I knew enough to rank 25 fighters in the right order. The more I learn about boxing, the more I know I know shit...so now, I cannot even do a Top 10, nevermind a Top 25...:D :-(

[Brickhaus]

I'll try and re-rank soon. Obviously things have changed a bit....

[catasyou]

There was a time, long ago, when I thought I knew enough to rank 25 fighters in the right order. The more I learn about boxing, the more I know I know shit...so now, I cannot even do a Top 10, nevermind a Top 25...:D :-( Explain:think

[Laudrup]

This is the official WBA ranking. Great list.
Personally I think that Gusmyl perdomo, Karo Murat, Lukas Wilaschek and perhaps a few others are a little to high!


1. DANILO HAUSSLER (OC) GER
2 GUSMYL PERDOMO (LAC) VEN
3. JEAN PASCAL (NABA) CAN
4. STJEPAN BOZIC (WBA I/C) CRO
5. KARO MURAT (EBU) ITA
6. DIMITRI SARTISON GER
7. MADS LARSEN DEN
8. LUKAS WILASCHEK POL
9. MARCUS JOHNSON USA
10. ALLAN GREEN USA
11. ANDRE WARD USA
12. ANDRE DIRRELL USA
13. JEAN PAUL MENDY FRA
14. VITALY TSYPKO UKR
15. VICTOR OGANOV (PABA)




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Who the hell is Lukas Wilascheck. :yep

Corrupt bastards WBA, huh:-(

[Maden]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Who the hell is Lukas Wilascheck. :yep

Corrupt bastards WBA, huh:-(

He is a rather unknown polish dude :blood

[Stinky gloves]

Explain:thinkIts like swimming on water. Hopkins lost to Taylor 2x, Taylor lost to Pavlik 2x, now after 3 years Hoplkins schooled Pavlik ... so who is the best ? It all depends on the timing, motivation and styles.

All rankings are personal until there is dominat champion who beats everybody else, but even then the haters say he isnt as good, the competition is weak. So as the man said ... its all SHIT.

[catasyou]

Its like swimming on water. Hopkins lost to Taylor 2x, Taylor lost to Pavlik 2x, now after 3 years Hoplkins schooled Pavlik ... so who is the best ? It all depends on the timing, motivation and styles.

All rankings are personal until there is dominat champion who beats everybody else, but even then the haters say he isnt as good, the competition is weak. So as the man said ... its all SHIT. Word