Will Calzaghe's doubters give respect?

[Bodysnatcher]

...

[PrideOfWales]

I wouldn't even listen to the detractors if Joe wins... I really wouldn't give a shit. If they cannot appreciate a guy like Calzaghe and his talents, then.... pffff!

[THN]

Haters are haters! From my point of wiew I'll give him all the respect in the world, bc if beats Kessler he's damn good.

[Bodysnatcher]

Was gonna start another thread for this but seems like the Calzaghe/Kessler posts are getting a little much for some.

Thoughts on this article people?:

`Calzaghe is keeping his eye on Kessler

The Briton's opponent may have tipped his hand before Saturday's title fight, says Kevin Mitchell `

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[Smazz20]

That is, IF Calzaghe wins?

I'm personally backing Kessler with my cash, but I think the disrespect shown to Calzaghe by the anti-Joe brigade is often spectacularly ignorant and unfair.

These doubters, more often than not, are huge fans of Kessler.

If, then, Calzaghe triumphs, will his detractors hold up their hands and admit that Joe has proved them wrong and that in defeating Kessler, he has gone a long way to proving himself a great fighter?

Or will they call Kessler overrated (ala Lacy) and return to their old line Calzaghe ran away from Jones Jr, Hopkins etc (despite their consistent lack of evidence and/or logic in that regard)?

I have to disagree with you here. Yes, part of the anti-joe brogade are made up of nuthigging Kesslerites but most of the JC haters are just simply that. Haters.

The odd thing about the Kesslerites though is, should Kessler win, they will start talking about how their fighter beat the best ever SM champion and how JC was a world class fighter who did this, that and the other. But should Kessler lose, they'll either (most likely) dissapear from here, or then get really into hating Joe and say that he would of lost if the fight was in Denmark or crap like that.

[THN]

I have to disagree with you here. Yes, part of the anti-joe brogade are made up of nuthigging Kesslerites but most of the JC haters are just simply that. Haters.

The odd thing about the Kesslerites though is, should Kessler win, they will start talking about how their fighter beat the best ever SM champion and how JC was a world class fighter who did this, that and the other. But should Kessler lose, they'll either (most likely) dissapear from here, or then get really into hating Joe and say that he would of lost if the fight was in Denmark or crap like that.
Funny thing about some Calzaghe fans is if-if-if and if

[Smazz20]

Funny thing about some Calzaghe fans is if-if-if and if

im lost:huh

[PH|LLA]

I have MAD respect for JC already, but I'm also backing Kessler with my cash due to a combination of good odds, Kessler's career so far, and Calzaghe's age. If Calzaghe beats Kessler, he is p4p no.1 in my book.

[Smazz20]

I have MAD respect for JC already, but I'm also backing Kessler with my cash due to a combination of good odds, Kessler's career so far, and Calzaghe's age. If Calzaghe beats Kessler, he is p4p no.1 in my book.

High praise indeed. But where would Kessler be if/when he wins?

[Bodysnatcher]

Pharoah, you betting on a Kessler KO/TKO?

I got 4-1 for that on betfair...feels like a cert.

Best thing is that I can only see one other outcome - Calzaghe winning a decision.

I like Calzaghe a lot and wouldn't be upset to lose my money if that happens.

Win-win :)

[Decebal]

WHOEVER wins will get HUGE, HUGE respect from me. And I won't listen to any excuses like: Joe was too old and past his prime...or...Kessler was fighting away in Joe's hometown...if the decision is fair, there should be NO EXCUSES, only praise for the winner.

[King Dan]

I have MAD respect for JC already, but I'm also backing Kessler with my cash due to a combination of good odds, Kessler's career so far, and Calzaghe's age. If Calzaghe beats Kessler, he is p4p no.1 in my book.


How about we see him beat a top 15 pound for pounder first before we put him #1?

Calzaghe is top 10 but would need to beat Kessler and then Hopkins, Pavlik or Wright before he is top 3.

[King Dan]

WHOEVER wins will get HUGE, HUGE respect from me. And I won't listen to any excuses like: Joe was too old and past his prime...or...Kessler was fighting away in Joe's hometown...if the decision is fair, there should be NO EXCUSES, only praise for the winner.

Agreed!

[brooklyn1550]

WHOEVER wins will get HUGE, HUGE respect from me. And I won't listen to any excuses like: Joe was too old and past his prime...or...Kessler was fighting away in Joe's hometown...if the decision is fair, there should be NO EXCUSES, only praise for the winner.

:good

[RDJ]

It depends how he wins. If he gives Kessler three slaps and the ref steps in I won't give Joe much credit.

[Smazz20]

It depends how he wins. If he gives Kessler three slaps and the ref steps in I won't give Joe much credit.

Why not:blood

[RDJ]

Why not:blood

Because in that case it will not prove anything about Calzaghe.

[Amsterdam]

People will hate Joe Calzaghe until he retires and probably hate him some more. They will always look back and see a devoid lack of big name opponents during his prime and will not see the very clever, very crafty boxers he did beat because they weren't American.

:good

[van the man]

WHOEVER wins will get HUGE, HUGE respect from me. And I won't listen to any excuses like: Joe was too old and past his prime...or...Kessler was fighting away in Joe's hometown...if the decision is fair, there should be NO EXCUSES, only praise for the winner.

agreed! exept if the verdict should be controvercial, but thats another thread:think

[cardstars]

I will give him all the respect in the world if he makes it past Kess. I don't see it happening so I can eat shit if he does. Hows that?

[Amsterdam]

I will give him all the respect in the world if he makes it past Kess. I don't see it happening so I can eat shit if he does. Hows that?

In the other thread you said Hagler would pound Calzaghe to pieces, if Calzaghe smokes Kessler badly, will you review your thoughts?:D

[PH|LLA]

How about we see him beat a top 15 pound for pounder first before we put him #1?

Calzaghe is top 10 but would need to beat Kessler and then Hopkins, Pavlik or Wright before he is top 3.
imo kessler is already a top10 lb4lber and just doesn't get recognized as such because he is a european who hasn't beaten any american names.

[PrideOfWales]

imo kessler is already a top10 lb4lber and just doesn't get recognized as such because he is a european who hasn't beaten any american names.

I'm sorry but to say Kessler can be ranked as one of the best 10 fighters p4p on the planet at this current time is crazy. Beat Calzaghe and he will have a claim but I would put him in the 15-20th bracket presently.

[Decebal]

I'm sorry but to say Kessler can be ranked as one of the best 10 fighters p4p on the planet at this current time is crazy. Beat Calzaghe and he will have a claim but I would put him in the 15-20th bracket presently.

Ok...assuming that Kessler beats Joe, who are those 14 better than him? Let's have it!

[McGrain]

Calzaghe is obviously one of the best fighters in the world. Anyone that can't see it can't see.

[cardstars]

In the other thread you said Hagler would pound Calzaghe to pieces, if Calzaghe smokes Kessler badly, will you review your thoughts?:D


Hagler is my fav fighter of all time....so no I cannot bet against him. LOL. Buuuut I suppose I deserve to get some sort of shit if Calzaghe beats Kess. I have nothing against JC, in fact I like the guy, but I am going to go with Kess on this one. Something tells me he gets out pointed and frustrated against a very accurate and tight fighter. I do have an avatar bet going.

[Amsterdam]

Calzaghe is obviously one of the best fighters in the world. Anyone that can't see it can't see.

He's not one of the best, he's supernatural, that's even better. He's like Bob Fitzsimmons.

[PH|LLA]

I'm sorry but to say Kessler can be ranked as one of the best 10 fighters p4p on the planet at this current time is crazy. Beat Calzaghe and he will have a claim but I would put him in the 15-20th bracket presently.
My reasons for placing kess in the top10
1. Kessler is 39-0.
2. He's a unified champion (WBA-WBC).
3. He's only lost a handful of rounds in his career
4. If you compute the win-loss ratio of his opponents you'll be quite surprised.
5. He's beaten quite a few former world champions.
6. He's still in his prime.
7. He's beaten quite a few contenders (one of them undefeated).

I guess the main factor though is that in all those fights he has barely ever been troubled. Mundine is the one who gave him the most trouble (still barely any) and it was widely known prior to the fight that Kessler was still recovering from a back injury. If he wasn't so good then he would've at least had a hard time beating some of these fighters but noone has even tested him.

[PrideOfWales]

My reasons for placing kess in the top10
1. Kessler is 39-0.
2. He's a unified champion (WBA-WBC).
3. He's only lost a handful of rounds in his career
4. If you compute the win-loss ratio of his opponents you'll be quite surprised.
5. He's beaten quite a few former world champions.
6. He's still in his prime.
7. He's beaten quite a few contenders (one of them undefeated).

I guess the main factor though is that in all those fights he has barely ever been troubled. Mundine is the one who gave him the most trouble (still barely any) and it was widely known prior to the fight that Kessler was still recovering from a back injury. If he wasn't so good then he would've at least had a hard time beating some of these fighters but noone has even tested him.


Joe Mesi is 36-0
It's good but titles mean zilch these days
And his best opponent is Anthony Mundine
Most of his fights are against boxers I've never heard of
He's beaten 4 former ABC champions with a total of 14 losses between them by the time Kessler got to them. Three of these former belt holders only held the title for 1 or 2 fights. Beyer is the exception and it's generally regarded that he was shot/shit by the time Mikkel got to him (still a good KO though)
This is true but so are many boxers - doesn't mean they're p4p top 10
I count 1 - Andrade (his credability is also debatable)Don't get me wrong, Kessler is good (why I think he's currently about the 18th best boxer on the planet p4p) but based on his current resume, achievements, and certainly by the 7 points you make, it's lunacy to consider him top 10. If he beats Calzaghe, then there's a good case for him. I like the fact that he's willing to take on Calzaghe in Wales and Mundine in Australia. He's got balls and he's great for boxing but to deserve a place in your top 10 seems premature to me.

That being said, p4p is not about achievements I guess and is completely subjective!

[PH|LLA]

honestly its easy to discredit any fighter including Pacquiao, Mayweather, Mosley, Hopkins, Calzaghe, Winky Wright, JMM, Cotto, etc.

Very very easy. But I think that in the end Kessler's accomplishments make it hard to find 10 fighters in the world who are better than him.

having him at 18 is realy low imo. but to each his own.

time will tell which one of us is right

[PrideOfWales]

honestly its easy to discredit any fighter including Pacquiao, Mayweather, Mosley, Hopkins, Calzaghe, Winky Wright, JMM, Cotto, etc.

Very very easy. But I think that in the end Kessler's accomplishments make it hard to find 10 fighters in the world who are better than him.

having him at 18 is realy low imo. but to each his own.

time will tell which one of us is right

I set him low because I have no idea how good he is against top notch opposition in meaningful fights. This Saturday should tell us all we need to know about Kessler. This is his biggest fight by a long way. I'm not trying to discredit Mikkel, I just see no reason why he should be ranked so high at this current point in time.

Also, I think I've found a way to make him 17th.

[Decebal]

Ok...assuming that Kessler beats Joe, who are those 14 better than him? Let's have it!

I am still waiting for that list, Pride!:D

[Korn_06]

Well pointing out weaknesses and critizising opposition is not hate. Picking Kessler to win is not hate either. I think most Kessler fans have very much respect for JC and I dont see a lot of hate these days. If JC wins he will get a lot of respect!!

[_J_G_]

Cant be bothered reading all the posts but I will say probably not, when Calzaghe wins Kessler will be seen as fraud/bum/hype job.

[David UK]

Calzaghe gets all the respect in the world from the knowledgable people inside the boxing industry. I doubt he is worried if a few American teenage boys give him a hard time on the internet!!

[HolgerD]

I will respect him, win or loose against Kessler. But REAL respect I'll pay him the day he fights abroad in front of a hostile crowd and against a caliber opponent with boxing brain and power.

[garymcfall]

Joe would have more respect if he went and fought outside the UK against a decent fighter for one fight. The fact that he has failed to do this makes me think he needs home advantage to win big fights. Remember the days of Nigel Benn going to the states and beating the Americans in their own backyard? Calzaghe should have at least had a couple of fights against top quality opposition there. Then his place as an ATG would be secured.

[DanePugilist]

Joe Mesi is 36-0
It's good but titles mean zilch these days
And his best opponent is Anthony Mundine
Most of his fights are against boxers I've never heard of
He's beaten 4 former ABC champions with a total of 14 losses between them by the time Kessler got to them. Three of these former belt holders only held the title for 1 or 2 fights. Beyer is the exception and it's generally regarded that he was shot/shit by the time Mikkel got to him (still a good KO though)
This is true but so are many boxers - doesn't mean they're p4p top 10
I count 1 - Andrade (his credability is also debatable)Don't get me wrong, Kessler is good (why I think he's currently about the 18th best boxer on the planet p4p) but based on his current resume, achievements, and certainly by the 7 points you make, it's lunacy to consider him top 10. If he beats Calzaghe, then there's a good case for him. I like the fact that he's willing to take on Calzaghe in Wales and Mundine in Australia. He's got balls and he's great for boxing but to deserve a place in your top 10 seems premature to me.

That being said, p4p is not about achievements I guess and is completely subjective!
1. Mesi had a layoff for 2-3 years. Not sure about the story, but he now fights crap fighters.
2. They mean more than zilch. Do you rate JCs WBO and IBF titles as the same? If they are gained from beating a top rank boxer, and not from a vacant title bout, its pretty legit to me.
3. And...? Mundine is rated no. 3 in SMW. Higher than Lacy.
4. And...? Some are still very good, same applies to the "unknowns" on JCs sheet.
5. And JCs had at least 12 losses combined(Brewer 8, Mitchell 2, Woodhall 2). Not counting the interim champs. There had been little indication that Beyer was shot. Faded - maybe, but not shot. Just like Eubanks. Brewer never managed to defend his, Woodhall for 2-3, Mitchell for two before he lost to Ottke and tried to best JC afterwards.
6. True, but there is a pretty strong case that Kessler belongs there. Is JC prime?
7. Mundine was a contender as well as Andrade. And since he has only defended his title 4 times, thats 50%. The first title fight and 3rd defence was against a WC. The 2nd defence was against a former WC. You must remember that Kessler hasnt had 20 title fights...


No. 18? Damn I would like to see your list. Even Ring mag did better than that.

[Caper]

I already have great respect for Joe though I'm not much of a fan. If you beats Kessler I will give him his props but I hear Kessler has a bad hand injury plus who has Kessler really fought and beaten himself. I can't blame Joe for the lack of talent in his division, he came at the right time so more power to him.

["TKO"]

I will respect him, win or loose against Kessler. But REAL respect I'll pay him the day he fights abroad in front of a hostile crowd and against a caliber opponent with boxing brain and power.

Just out of curiosity, does that mean neither Mayweather nor ODLH (to name a couple of examples) have REAL respect either?

[DanePugilist]

Just out of curiosity, does that mean neither Mayweather nor ODLH (to name a couple of examples) have REAL respect either?Haven't Mayweather fought against a hostile crowd? Other than that - they should receive more credit if they did so... Wouldn't you agree? Ie Mayweather vs Kostya Tszyu in Australia back in the day. ODLH in Germany vs Sturm or Tito in Puerto Rico.

[HolgerD]

Just out of curiosity, does that mean neither Mayweather nor ODLH (to name a couple of examples) have REAL respect either?

If your point is that they fight predominantly in the US, I consider the US boxing scene more competitive than the European. Not by far but still.
As for the actual names you bring up I don't really have a detailed "respect metre", sorry.