Mike Tyson v.s Sonny Liston (Bareknuckles)

[Bad_Intentions]

Bareknuckle.

who wins?

[dado]

tyson,,,,, easily.. imagine a mike tyson punch,,,, bare knuckled, just imagine his speed without gloves, thats some scary stuff. liston wouldnt be a match he was too slow just not enough of a specimen, tyson would rush him and crumble him into the ground it would go a few seconds

[McGrain]

tyson would rush him and crumble him into the ground it would go a few seconds

Your post makes it clear that:

You know very little about the rules they would be fighting under.

You know very little about Liston.

You don't know much about fighting in general.

Sorry bro, you're about as far of as you could possibly be.

[blan]

tyson would completely destroy his hands and probably listons head too

[Bad_Intentions]

it won't be an easy fight to be honest. liston was pretty fast for a guy his size, and his left jab (the best of all times heavyweight that is) will leave good damage on tyson's face.

[dado]

macgrain i dont know much about fighting?
bro ive been doing boxing now for 4 years and MMA for almost two trust me i know more than u think about fighting,,, i grew up in a warzone aka sarajevo (bosnia) and ive been im more streetfights than what u have eaten breakfasts.
the rules r pretty clear,,, 'bareknuckle' theres not a lot to it is there,,, i know a lot about sonny liston ive got about 15 of his fights,,,, and trust me for mike tyson,,,, a BARE KNUCKLE mike tyson,,, sonny liston would be no match,,, im being serious i think he would get knocked out in a few seconds ,,, thats just my opinion,,, but not just knocked out,,, like messed up BADLY like hospitalized :)

[dado]

also dont judge this fight based upon old skool bare knuckle fights,,, those guys had crap power and punching technique was poor and weak thats why they were able to fight for hours,,,, with tysons technique , speed, and power its hard to imagine how not just sonny liston but any man ever could take more than a couple of punches from him bare knuckles,,, heads are only made of bones,,, tysons punches will easily break the jaw bone,,, knock all teeth out,,, break facial bones the maxillary etc,

[Bad_Intentions]

also dont judge this fight based upon old skool bare knuckle fights,,, those guys had crap power and punching technique was poor and weak thats why they were able to fight for hours,,,, with tysons technique , speed, and power its hard to imagine how not just sonny liston but any man ever could take more than a couple of punches from him bare knuckles,,, heads are only made of bones,,, tysons punches will easily break the jaw bone,,, knock all teeth out,,, break facial bones the maxillary etc,so your saying that john sullivan had weak power?? :rofl :rofl

[McGrain]

macgrain i dont know much about fighting?
bro ive been doing boxing now for 4 years and MMA for almost two trust me i know more than u think about fighting,,, i grew up in a warzone aka sarajevo (bosnia) and ive been im more streetfights than what u have eaten breakfasts.

Sounds like you've been there and done it allright.

the rules r pretty clear,,, 'bareknuckle' theres not a lot to it is there,,, i know a lot about sonny liston ive got about 15 of his fights,,,, and trust me for mike tyson,,,, a BARE KNUCKLE mike tyson,,, sonny liston would be no match,,, im being serious i think he would get knocked out in a few seconds ,,, thats just my opinion,,, but not just knocked out,,, like messed up BADLY like hospitalized :)

The rules allow for holding and wrestling to a much greater extent than anything we've seen either of these guys do in the ring. As far as functional strength goes, Liston is ahead so this give him a serious advantage. Tyson has big fistss - 13" if memory serves - but Liston's are bigger, 15", and with no gloves being used that gives him a serious advantage.

Liston hits harder. He has a bigger reach, in fact he has the longest, hardest jab in heavyweight history.

Both men have great, great chins. Which is why I found your shout about a short fight so ridiculous. Liston probably has the edge in stamina, and given that the fight could be anything up to 75 rounds - unspecified here - this give him a serious advantage.

With two great punchers you never know, but I think Liston shades Tyson in key areas here. One shot power, reach, functional strength. Where Tyson exceeds - combination punching and speed - we see his advantages smothered by rules that see no warnings from a ref for holding, grabbing and pushing.

It's about 55/45 but I'll say Liston by KO after around 12 rounds.

[dado]

yes john sullivan had weak power,,, if he couldnt knock people out with bare knuckles he had very weak power,,,, when will u people understand that u cant compare fighters ( or humans in general) from a hundred or more years ago to fighters today.... i bet u every amateur boxer in australia today from 69kg onwards has better power than john sullivan ,,,, what r u gonna start saying soon that sprinters from the 1800;s could beat the ones from today,, please its nice to be nostalgic but not to the point of being stupid

[McGrain]

also dont judge this fight based upon old skool bare knuckle fights,,, those guys had crap power and punching technique was poor and weak thats why they were able to fight for hours,


Primarily it was because fighters were in engaged in holds and clinches that would last for minutes. Guys like Sullivan and Jeffries punched just fine in terms of power and guys like Corbett wrote the book on punching technique, though maybe that's a bit further down the line that you mean.

[McGrain]

they both shatter their hands and then decided to call it quits and go drinking.

That's an after party you wouldn't let your girlfriend waitress at.

[Bad_Intentions]

yes john sullivan had weak power,,, if he couldnt knock people out with bare knuckles he had very weak power,,,, when will u people understand that u cant compare fighters ( or humans in general) from a hundred or more years ago to fighters today.... i bet u every amateur boxer in australia today from 69kg onwards has better power than john sullivan ,,,, what r u gonna start saying soon that sprinters from the 1800;s could beat the ones from today,, please its nice to be nostalgic but not to the point of being stupid:rofl :rofl this guy doesn't know shit about boxing.

[dado]

ok i dont know shit about boxing? thats why im probably the only one here who actually HAS a boxing record and actually COMPETES in the ring in 2different combat sports,, where as u like to spend ur time thinking about if some guy who fought 200 years ago ,,, WHO U HAVE NEVER EVEN SEE FIGHT COZ THERES NO FOOTAGE OF HIM, and u like to say that he was a powerful puncher how do u even know that? coz some 19th century british guy wrote it in a book? come on man please tyson was an absolutel punching machine,,, also liston was impressive too very impressive,,, i still dont think he was a match at all for a bare knuckle tyson,,,, but sullivan? ur going bak too far man,,, next time u can post about why a caveman could whoop wladimir coz hes got a better chin

[hobgoblin]

Mike Tyson is one of my favorite fighters but he wasn't a GENUINELY mean mothafucka to the core. You've heard that story before: two thieves are at the gallows. There's a crowd around them to witness the gruesome scene. These two committed grave crimes and were pretty bad mofos. Now they are about to face death and the consequences. The magistrate says, "do you repent"? The first thief snickers and scowls. The second thief breaks down and sobs and weeps and begs for mercy - he is no longer consistent.

I see Liston as the first thief, Iron Mike as the second thief. He isn't bad to the CORE. He just didn't have the mentality to handle the most brutal situations in the ring (granted, anyone in boxing obviously can withstand brutality - but not the level required against a guy like Liston).

Liston was bigger, stronger, had a longer reach and was much meaner than Tyson - he was bad to the core. This guy repeatedly took beatings from the Detroit police. His record is "more impressive" than Tyson's in terms of hardship, choas and such (despite Tyson's terrible start). Tyson would be worse on someone who is inferior than him (99.9%) becuase he wouldn't break down - but against Liston he would break down. He would end up like was in the Lewis fight - twitching and crying to cuts - it'd be much worse than Liston.

This is why when people make threads about "Tyson in an alley with..." I imagine he'd be on the short end. These fights are very brutal and Tyson isn't a complete villain. More importantly, for these traits - I suspect Tyson did get the short end of the stick in some encounters in prison - I can only imagine prison is horrible place where people sneak up on you.

Mike Tyson was a bad man, but Liston was even "badder".

[Muchmoore]

Bareknuckle.

who wins?

We've never seen either fight bareknuckle so who knows? Both would be brutal at it most likely.

Tyson had experience fighting on the streets growing up, while Liston was sent to break peoples legs at a mill he worked at.

[hobgoblin]

I'll bet Liston has fought many more bareknucke street fights than Tyson.

[McGrain]

Mike Tyson was a bad man, but Liston was even "badder".


That's a nice post.

Couldn't have said it better.

[McGrain]

ok i dont know shit about boxing? thats why im probably the only one here who actually HAS a boxing record and actually COMPETES in the ring in 2different combat sports,,


Loads of these guys lace them up although it sounds like you may be at a higher level.

But when you say things like "Jeffries had no power" and then attack someone else for saying the opposite because "how can they know?", when you predict an easy win for Tyson over Liston, you look a bit naive.

[McGrain]

I'll bet Liston has fought many more bareknucke street fights than Tyson.

That is almost beyond doubt.

[Bad_Intentions]

We've never seen either fight bareknuckle so who knows? Both would be brutal at it most likely.

Tyson had experience fighting on the streets growing up, while Liston was sent to break peoples legs at a mill he worked at.it's a fantasy fight. imagine tyson with no gloves fighting bareknuckles with liston.

[Bad_Intentions]

ok i dont know shit about boxing? thats why im probably the only one here who actually HAS a boxing record and actually COMPETES in the ring in 2different combat sports,, where as u like to spend ur time thinking about if some guy who fought 200 years ago ,,, WHO U HAVE NEVER EVEN SEE FIGHT COZ THERES NO FOOTAGE OF HIM, and u like to say that he was a powerful puncher how do u even know that? coz some 19th century british guy wrote it in a book? come on man please tyson was an absolutel punching machine,,, also liston was impressive too very impressive,,, i still dont think he was a match at all for a bare knuckle tyson,,,, but sullivan? ur going bak too far man,,, next time u can post about why a caveman could whoop wladimir coz hes got a better chinyour a fucking idiot. back then boxers WERE PURE!, they didnt use weights to get strong for boxing matches, they didnt use STEROIDS like some of the morons use these days. get the fuck out of here.

classic boxers spent hours training, hitting the heavybags and running 14-15 miles every day.

[dado]

ok just to demonstrate to u how much bare knuckles make a difference heres an example,,,, when tyson fought mitch green in the ring he didnt even knock him out,,, when he fought him on the street did u see what happened to greens face,,, he got his fucking face crushed he looked like he got stomped by ten people that was from a couple of punches,,,, a few seconds worth of fighting,,, and tyson broke his arm too,,, that woulda been from hitting the concrete or something

[robert ungurean]

Liston gets Tyson in an ally and has Tyson pissing his pants befor he destroys him.

[dado]

ur a stupid fucking geek why the fuck do i wanna spell words correctly im not writing an english speech im on the internet u retard i got no time to punctuate as long as u can read it its good enough what the fuck does that have to do with boxing anyway,,,, mike tyson im sure knows how to punch without gloves by the way,,, that wasnt the point my point is that look at what happens to a mans face when he is punched by a bare knuckle tyson,,, those old skool fighters took hours to mess someone up that bad,, doesent that right there prove a point?? do u think john L sullivan could do that to mitch green in such a short period of time??? if he couldnt do it to old skool outta shape doughy looking fatasses ,,, sorry im not at all convinced that these old fighters could stand any chance against the modern era,,,,, bak to the tyson-liston arguement,,,,, listons reach etc, would not come into play... its a bare knuckle fight speed is all that counts all tyson needs to do is jump inside quickly and uppercut,left hook combo ,,, and there go some facial bones.

[cross_trainer]

ur a stupid fucking geek why the fuck do i wanna spell words correctly im not writing an english speech im on the internet u retard i got no time to punctuate as long as u can read it its good enough what the fuck does that have to do with boxing anyway,,,, mike tyson im sure knows how to punch without gloves by the way,,, that wasnt the point my point is that look at what happens to a mans face when he is punched by a bare knuckle tyson,,, those old skool fighters took hours to mess someone up that bad,, doesent that right there prove a point?? do u think john L sullivan could do that to mitch green in such a short period of time??? if he couldnt do it to old skool outta shape doughy looking fatasses ,,, sorry im not at all convinced that these old fighters could stand any chance against the modern era,,,,, bak to the tyson-liston arguement,,,,, listons reach etc, would not come into play... its a bare knuckle fight speed is all that counts all tyson needs to do is jump inside quickly and uppercut,left hook combo ,,, and there go some facial bones.

Your main objection is that the "old timers" were inferior athletes, yes?

If I could demonstrate to you that they weren't too far behind modern guys when it comes to measurable sports, would you reconsider your position?

Incidentally, what sort of record and which combat sports do you compete in? Not doubting--just curious. Sounds like you may have a few interesting stories to tell.

[fists of fury]

I'm willing to bet the winner is the one who doesn't break his hands...

Just a question - why do people insist Liston was bigger and stronger? On what grounds are these claims based?

As for meanness - well Sonny was a mean ol' SOB for sure, but he had a quitting streak as well. I do agree though that he had a genuinely mean streak whereas Tyson's was more manufactured.

[janitor]

Liston was a leg breaker for the maffia early in his boxing career. The police in his home town caried his photograph in their patrol car's with instructions not to approach him. If he and Tyson walked into a dark alley together then Liston would be the one walking out.

A bare knuckle fight is a completely different game to a street fight. It tends to be more drawn out than a gloved boxing match not less. The deciding factor would likley be durability and stamina. In this case the winner would probably be whoever adapted to the new rule set best.

[JIm Broughton]

Bare knuckle fighting is a completely different world. Hands are very brittle so in a BK fight you have to pick your punches alot more carefully. No gauze,tape and gloves. Remember, gloves are were designed to protect a fighters hands, not the other guy's face. With this in mind I think Sonny has the edge if he can measure Mike with that 85" reach and drop a couple of right hand bombs. In the clinch Sonny would do just fine as well being as strong as he was. I'd put my money on Sonny but I would'nt bet the farm.

[dr greenthumb]

it depends if you mean old bareknuckle rules or modern ones ( basicly a street fight) i have spent years watching modern bare knuckle fights and from experience liston and tyson are the fighters i have always said would do the best fighting bare knuckles but imo sonny takes this
As i have a relativly limited knowledge of the old school bare knuckle fights i cannot pass comment on how the fight would have gone under those rules

[bigjake]

it won't be an easy fight to be honest. liston was pretty fast for a guy his size, and his left jab (the best of all times heavyweight that is) will leave good damage on tyson's face.

yes liston i think would win that contest.he's make tyson quit

[C. M. Clay II]

Liston is bigger, hits harder, and takes the better punch, and that's all that would matter in a street fight, so Liston wins this one here within the first five minutes.:good

[hobgoblin]

Liston is bigger, hits harder, and takes the better punch, and that's all that would matter in a street fight, so Liston wins this one here within the first five minutes.:good

whoa...tyson hits just as hard as liston in fact is a superior puncher (handspeed counts big time in a street fight) with more angles and well rounded punches (better uppercut) and liston's long arms meant his punches were wider too (at least that is what i saw on screen). and without a doubt, tyson has a better chin - he takes a punch better than liston. i pick liston but won't do injustice to tyson.

btw, i doubt this would last 5 minutes and forget the jab - this is not a boxing contest. in that case, ali would beat liston in a street fight :twisted:

quickness and reflexes are very important in a streetfight (i should know since the number of fights i have fought ends in 0 :smile:)

[JohnBKelly]

Mike Tyson went to jail when he was about twelve and was taken in by D'Amato when he was about 14. He spent the next few years boxing and going to school in Catskill. A tough life but pretty privileged compared to some of us.

Sonny Liston had a shitty childhood and mixed with bad guys up to his discovery of boxing in his early 20s. Even after he turned pro he still beat up folks on a regular basis. Even as champ Sonny was a tough embittered man who didn't like too many people.

Tyson has spent plenty of time in stir but his crimes were generally the product of crass arrogance not outright thuggery. There are a few parking lot attendants and burger salesmen who have taken a shot from Iron Mike's bare fist and not needed facial re-construction. So lets not get hung up on this nonsense about pro boxers being deadly punchers without gloves. If they have their feet set and the victim stands still then yes a guy like Tyson could crush the bones in someones face. The reality is that streetfights happen at close range and off balance.

Sonny v Mike without gloves, I go for Sonny after an hour or so of wrestling.

[hobgoblin]

There are a few parking lot attendants and burger salesmen who have taken a shot from Iron Mike's bare fist and not needed facial re-construction.

Sonny v Mike without gloves, I go for Sonny after an hour or so of wrestling.

It wouldn't be a wrestling match. And between these two guys, no way one survives for an hour. Hell, a boxing match is not 1 hour long and fighters are drained towards the end.

Also, a boxer's bare fisted punch is very damaging. What on earth are you talking about? Remember Mitch Green's face? The two guys that threatened Tyson with a gun in 2003 and one tried to swing at him with a pole. We saw hotel footage - Tyson threw a JAB and the guy's face was cratered and he said he was getting double vision or something (perhaps he wanted money in damages so he exaggereated). I heard about an incident where a waitress deliberately spilled hot coffee over Tyson, hoping that he would hit her and she'd make money off of this (sick isn't it). Tyson kept his cool and she got zilch. Since nothing happened, you hear little about that incident. If a parking lot attendant or whoever went off unscarred, it is because Tyson for the monster that he can be, sometimes actually used his brain and minimized trouble (as he tried to do by just throwing a jab against "civilians" whereas against someone like Mitch Green he didn't bother but went for the straight right).

[Duodenum]

Sonny would immediately break Mike's fist with his face, just like Mitch Green did. That's where the similarity ends. Tyson has one good hand left, and now he's made Liston mad. Next stop for Tyson: ICU.

[hobgoblin]

Sonny would immediately break Mike's fist with his face, just like Mitch Green did. That's where the similarity ends. Tyson has one good hand left, and now he's made Liston mad. Next stop for Tyson: ICU.

I don't follow the logic here: you imply that Tyson lands first (hand speed vs reach). If Tyson lands the kind of right hand he landed on Green, Liston would be KNOCKED OUT. Liston could not take Tyson's best shot. And I assume that if Tyson broke his hand, he punched as hard as he would w/o gloves and that truly would cause more damage to Liston and Tyson. In your scenario, the fight is over with the last line. Liston had a reliable chin but Mike Tyson's right hand was harder than anything Cleveland Williams or Mike DeJohn hit him with. Tyson may not have been the greatest figher but he was one hell of a puncher. Liston was the greater boxer but Tyson was a superior puncher and a had a better chin.

Additionally, Tyson was more durable than Liston with a better chin and it is Tyson who has a record for hurting people's fists with his chin with single shots (Lewis as early as round 2 and Tucker as early as round 1 or 2 can't remember with a single uppercut).

[Duodenum]

I don't follow the logic here: you imply that Tyson lands first (hand speed vs reach). If Tyson lands the kind of right hand he landed on Green, Liston would be KNOCKED OUT. Liston could not take Tyson's best shot. And I assume that if Tyson broke his hand, he punched as hard as he would w/o gloves and that truly would cause more damage to Liston and Tyson. In your scenario, the fight is over with the last line. Liston had a reliable chin but Mike Tyson's right hand was harder than anything Cleveland Williams or Mike DeJohn hit him with. Tyson may not have been the greatest figher but he was one hell of a puncher. Liston was the greater boxer but Tyson was a superior puncher and a had a better chin.

Additionally, Tyson was more durable than Liston with a better chin and it is Tyson who has a record for hurting people's fists with his chin with single shots (Lewis as early as round 2 and Tucker as early as round 1 or 2 can't remember with a single uppercut).By Tyson's own admission, Green came up swinging after Mike decked him. He had to floor Blood another couple of times before he could get away in his car. Green was far less dangerous on the street than Liston would have been. I'm giving Mike the best case scenario, that Sonny lets him get in the first shot. Question is, can Tyson stand up to what Sonny would deliver in return?

[unitas]

Bareknuckle.

who wins?

stupid:patsch

[hobgoblin]

By Tyson's own admission, Green came up swinging after Mike decked him. He had to floor Blood another couple of times before he could get away in his car. Green was far less dangerous on the street than Liston would have been. I'm giving Mike the best case scenario, that Sonny lets him get in the first shot. Question is, can Tyson stand up to what Sonny would deliver in return?

I did not know and am shocked that Green got up from that punch to swing some more. Very hard to believe. In that case, you're absolutely right. Even if Liston broke his fist on Tyson's chin like Tyson broke his, I'd pick Liston. Yes, you are giving Tyson a great scenario and of course Liston was far more dangerous than Green.

[seb melmoth]

Liston fucks him up.

[CzarKyle]

This is something I would pay anything to see. Lets pray the afterlife (for those that believe there is such) has a fantasy predictor that shows these fights in real time.

[Duodenum]

I did not know and am shocked that Green got up from that punch to swing some more. Very hard to believe. In that case, you're absolutely right. Even if Liston broke his fist on Tyson's chin like Tyson broke his, I'd pick Liston. Yes, you are giving Tyson a great scenario and of course Liston was far more dangerous than Green.A[Only registered and activated users can see links] you ain't no fun! (Vehement protests are so much more entertaining than changing people's minds.)

I remember the interviews following their street fight, and juxtaposing the mess Mike made of Green's face, with Tyson's admission that Mitch kept getting up swinging, was a stunning contrast. Street fighting, bare knuckle prizefighting, and competitive boxing are three very diverse undertakings. The ones who generally capture the public imagination are the ones perceived to be able to excel at all of them.

The Spinks brothers were horrible streetfighters, while Camacho was reputedly a great one (who admitted to using a brick or bat to win on occasion). Corbett beat the crap out of Choynski in street fights, before he duplicated that success in a ring.

One of the toughest streetfighters I ever knew had his nose broken eleven seconds into his first sanctioned competition with gloves.

If you want some ATG's on your side in a barroom brawl, I'd start by suggesting Foreman, Dempsey, and Duran.

[hobgoblin]

A[Only registered and activated users can see links] you ain't no fun! (Vehement protests are so much more entertaining than changing people's minds.)

I remember the interviews following their street fight, and juxtaposing the mess Mike made of Green's face, with Tyson's admission that Mitch kept getting up swinging, was a stunning contrast. Street fighting, bare knuckle prizefighting, and competitive boxing are three very diverse undertakings. The ones who generally capture the public imagination are the ones perceived to be able to excel at all of them.

The Spinks brothers were horrible streetfighters, while Camacho was reputedly a great one (who admitted to using a brick or bat to win on occasion). Corbett beat the crap out of Choynski in street fights, before he duplicated that success in a ring.

One of the toughest streetfighters I ever knew had his nose broken eleven seconds into his first sanctioned competition with gloves.

If you want some ATG's on your side in a barroom brawl, I'd start by suggesting Foreman, Dempsey, and Duran.

That screen name is unusual (not to mention disgusting if I remember my anatomy correctly). Are you a medical doctor or do you work in a clinical lab? That would make sense in several ways. If not, do not give the correct answer, these are personal matters that I don't like someone to intimately reveal. It'd be interesting if my random hunch were correct, that's all.

[Duodenum]

That screen name is unusual (not to mention disgusting if I remember my anatomy correctly). Are you a medical doctor or do you work in a clinical lab? That would make sense in several ways. If not, do not give the correct answer, these are personal matters that I don't like someone to intimately reveal. It'd be interesting if my random hunch were correct, that's all.You are clearly a most astute scholar, to decipher the self-effacing and diffident nature of my nom de guerre. (I've been wondering how long before somebody commented on that! 341 posts later, I have my answer.)

Although I did work in a health care setting, once upon a time, it's my affinity for relatively obscure funny looking and sounding words which drew me to employ this particular selection. (I just assumed that everybody on this board was simply too polite to make mention of it.) There are numerous other bizarre potential selections I'm holding in reserve for other applications. Duodenum does seem an apt moniker, considering the nature of my currently tiresome commentary. (Plus, Duo is emerging as a cool nick-name.) Well done!