How could anyone possibly call Kessler basic?

[MrStayman]

The blockheads of the world keep calling Kessler a "basic" fighter. :nut

I have 16 of the guys fights, and he is phenomenal. He takes the Euro fighter style to the absolute pinnacle, and then even goes further than that. If you think he is "basic," then you are missing out on hundreds of subtle and not so subtle things that he does.

- His head movement is very effective. A lot of fighters who move their head keep their feet planted when doing so, and do it preemptively at illogical times. Kessler moves his head around very fast and only when it pays off. This completely throws off his opponents.

- His footwork is amazing. It is grounded in the euro style, in which fighters move in and out on their toes. However, he also has lateral movement, and weaves around his opponents.

- His jabs and straights all have a tremendous amount of snap behind them. The extension that he puts on them, and the way they just uncoil into the opponent is a wonderful thing to watch.

- Kessler's timing for counterpunching is perfect, and he adapts to his opponent as the fight goes on.

- Kessler is amazingly accurate and has a good chin

You'll find out the truth on Saturday.

[MrStayman]

Are you suggesting that a fighter who perfects the textbook style is inferior to a great fighter who does not base their game on the textbook style? Whatever, this is a waste of time.

[Hawks28]

The blockheads of the world keep calling Kessler a "basic" fighter. :nut

I have 16 of the guys fights, and he is phenomenal. He takes the Euro fighter style to the absolute pinnacle, and then even goes further than that. If you think he is "basic," then you are missing out on hundreds of subtle and not so subtle things that he does.

- His head movement is very effective. A lot of fighters who move their head keep their feet planted when doing so, and do it preemptively at illogical times. Kessler moves his head around very fast and only when it pays off. This completely throws off his opponents.

- His footwork is amazing. It is grounded in the euro style, in which fighters move in and out on their toes. However, he also has lateral movement, and weaves around his opponents.

- His jabs and straights all have a tremendous amount of snap behind them. The extension that he puts on them, and the way they just uncoil into the opponent is a wonderful thing to watch.

- Kessler's timing for counterpunching is perfect, and he adapts to his opponent as the fight goes on.

- Kessler is amazingly accurate and has a good chin

You'll find out the truth on Saturday.

I agree 100%. He is pretty far from just basic. Even if he does end up losing to Joe.

[MrStayman]

History has shown us that the guys that rise to the very top of the profession have something above and beyond the textbook style.

Oscar De La Hoya, biggest draw ever, not textbook - he's a dominant lead hand fighter, with a wicked left hook

Pernell Whitaker, some think the greatest P4P ever, no where near a textbook style.

Roy Jones Jr, my personal pick for H2H ATG P4P fighter, nothing textbook about him

Mike Tyson, supreme power, head movement that amazed you and ability to throw any punch from either hand.

Take the current Top 10 P4P.

Any textbook fighters in amongst that mix?

And before you say Floyd... last time I looked, shoulder roll defence, shielding the opponents sight with the glove to land another punch and often leading the straight right isn't textbook.Oscar based his game very much in the fundamentals. Anyway, when people on this site call a fighter "basic," it has a connotation of mediocrity.

Even if we do look at it from your perspective, then Kessler shows a lot more then textbook skills. For example, I said that he weaves around his opponents in the ring. At times, he displays the epitome of "textbook" footwork. But at other times, such as when he gets near the ropes, he displays sugar ray leonard type footwork. His jab and straight right to me are not what you would call textbook, but they are beautiful and effective.

[Astola]

This is funny to me.

What you've placed up to counter the point that people call Kessler basic/simple/textbook - is basic/simple/textbook traits.

Head movement
Footwork
Jabs and straights
Counter punching
Accuracy

The BASICS of boxing - move the head to avoid being hit. Use your feet to put you in distance, work off the jab and set up the straight right, use the jab to counter and the right to harm, don't expend too much energy with wide punches, punche straight down the pipeline.

So, Kessler IS Basic - even on the stuff you've said.

I'd dispute Kessler's head movement, it's his guard defense that makes him hard to crack, his head movement and feetwork are compartively poor to most good examples, he tends to go straight back, keeps his head high and relies on his jab and guard defense to stop punches getting through.

Kessler does the basics well - but his style is all wrong for Calzaghe.

Textbook boxers, when they have it all in place, can beat 95% of styles out there.

You'd never see a textbook style dominate a Roy Jones Jr. You'd never see a textbook style dominate Pernell Whitaker... just like you won't see a textbook style dominate Joe Calzaghe.


Its orthodox. not ordinary.

You are in love with southpaw Joe and was strangely in love with Taylor. But again. He was facing a pressure fighter. Weirdo.

[BennitheHill]

Blocky weren't you supposed to be away for 6 months?
Fun to have you back.. Keep thinking of them abs :D

Cheers

[MrStayman]

Oscar has the look of fundamentals because he uses a textbook defense, tends to work the jab - but ultimately, do you see him using his right cross much? What's his KO punch?

Oscar is a bit more textbook than most in that list but he's definitely not the typical jabbing, right handing fighter that typifies textbook.

Now you're just over-rating Kessler, he shows nothing like Sugar Ray's Feetwork.

Like most Kessler fanatics, you're not seeing reality.Let's ignore the fact that Kessler has a great hook for the moment. Your argument is now based on this fact: Oscar used a hook as his primary KO punch instead of a cross. I hope you see why this is silly, but I won't hold my breath.

You make the claim that a fighter who relies on fundamentals can not be p4p material. You are wrong. Kessler is nearly perfect in the fundamentals, but his skills do not stop there. His footwork, straights, and head movement are unique and go beyond what would be written in a boxing 101 textbook.

[Lampley]

I fall in the middle on this issue. I would argue Kessler has a basic style, but he also possesses instincts for timing and distance that cannot be learned.

Those are natural traits a fighter is born with in the same way we cite the athleticism of a Jones. The difference is that Kessler's greatest innate strengths are not as visible as a guy with the stunning handspeed or incredible defensive abilities, and his blueprint follows a more orthodox model.

Now, having said that, we'll have to see to what extent these abilities translate against an elite, highly unorthodox fighter. On that point, Kessler doesn't possess the resume for observers to make a sound prediction.

[Brickhaus]

Blocky weren't you supposed to be away for 6 months?
Fun to have you back.. Keep thinking of them abs :D

Cheers

Part of the deal was he was allowed back for the week of Calzaghe/Kessler.

[MrStayman]

NIce post, I agree. Kessler isn't GREAT at one thing, but he is good in a lot of areas but that style isn't going to beat a southpaw speed demon like Calzaghe.

BTW, I thought your ban was for 6 months?No, he isn't great at one thing. He's great at many things.

Most people equate "basic" with "mediocre or good at the textbook style, but not great." I mean, Blocky's post was pure garbage. His argument is that no matter how good someone is at foot work, punching with jabs/crosses, head movement, and accuracy, they can not be pound for pound material. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[BennitheHill]

Part of the deal was he was allowed back for the week of Calzaghe/Kessler.

Okay.
Fair play then :)

[MrStayman]

I could see the point you were making until you made a comparison to Ray Leonard's footwork and then I nearly laughed myself silly. I said that he displays that footwork in the specific case in which he is being pressured onto the ropes.

[MrStayman]

And I'm telling you that is utter bollocks. He has none of Ray's slipperiness or his inside game. That is just fanboy delusions.

There is no similarity.Well of course you are going to say this. As you said, you "KNOW Calzaghe will win." Yah I'm exaggerating a little, but not much since I restricted my claim to the ropes. Kessler does not show anywhere near the footwork of SRL in the center of the ring. People see an ATGs name and suddenly go apeshit.