Which THREE FIGHTS for LUCIAN BUTE after Berrio to prepare for CALZAGHE + KESSLER?***

[Decebal]

Bute is not ready for Calzaghe and Kessler. He needs more time to improve his defence and become less hesitant. I guess that can be summed up by saying he needs more experience. So which three fights would you plan for Bute if you were his manager, assuming that he would beat Berrio?

Here's what Amsterdam thought:

Berrio, Veit, Inkin/Mundine would be what I would attempt for Bute's next 3 if I were the manager and believe me, that's great comp.

That seems a wise choice. Still I would want to see Bute go 12 rounds with someone...both Berrio and Veit might be quite short fights...Bute would look good and his KO record would improve...but it might not be the best preparation for Calzaghe and Kessler. So which 3 fights would prepare Bute best for his betters?

I'd be tempted to go:

1. Inkin
2. Froch/Lacy (by May 2008 he should have recovered)
3. Mundine

What do you think?

[Decebal]

This is what deram said:

It would be good. Berrio, Lacy, Inkin/Mundine would of course be even better.

[Decebal]

so...should Bute ho for impressive wins or 12 round experience?:think

[Amsterdam]

Froch is very dangerous for Bute, not a good tune up, but a good replacement for Mundine or Inkin if he can't get those.

Berrio, Veit and Mundine/Inkin is without a doubt the perfect 3 fights to get experience over some different styles. Veit is a boxer-puncher style, which Kessler is also, but light years ahead of course and Mundine is a quick/slick boxer-puncher who's speed who be good preparation for Calzaghe, if Bute won that bout.

Berrio is a good highlight reel win.

[Decebal]

Froch is very dangerous for Bute, not a good tune up, but a good replacement for Mundine or Inkin if he can't get those.

Berrio, Veit and Mundine/Inkin is without a doubt the perfect 3 fights to get experience over some different styles. Veit is a boxer-puncher style, which Kessler is also, but light years ahead of course and Mundine is a quick/slick boxer-puncher who's speed who be good preparation for Calzaghe, if Bute won that bout.

Berrio is a good highlight reel win.

Amsterdam, please name a third Berrio excluded...

Veit, Mundine/Inkin...who else?...or would you go Mundine AND Inkin, and if so, in what order?

[Dekkers]

The winner of Manfredo v Green would be a good choice.

[Amsterdam]

Amsterdam, please name a third Berrio excluded...

Veit, Mundine/Inkin...who else?...or would you go Mundine AND Inkin, and if so, in what order?

Okay, excluding Berrio, which is a "freebie".

Veit, Inkin & Mundine would be the order I'd go for. Inkin is dying for a good fight, so he'd be available after Bute disposed of Mario Veit...

Another one to look into would be Jurgen Braehmer, whom would be really easy but is ranked and has a nice looking record, Bute would KO this guy and he'd be a good tune up after Mundine beats him.:yep :good

[Decebal]

The winner of Manfredo v Green would be a good choice.

Are you joking? I hope you are joking!

[Dekkers]

Are you joking? I hope you are joking!

Why not, I think he'd win and he'd get good exposure stateside.

[Decebal]

Okay, excluding Berrio, which is a "freebie".

Veit, Inkin & Mundine would be the order I'd go for. Inkin is dying for a good fight, so he'd be available after Bute disposed of Mario Veit...

Another one to look into would be Jurgen Braehmer, whom would be really easy but is ranked and has a nice looking record, Bute would KO this guy and he'd be a good tune up after Mundine beats him.:yep :good

Thanks, mate!:good

[Amsterdam]

Why not, I think he'd win and he'd get good exposure stateside.

Manfredo sparks that glass jawed joke Green, that's for sure.:lol:

[Decebal]

Why not, I think he'd win and he'd get good exposure stateside.

This is the only advantage I can foresee...for exposure in the US, which I agree, is very important, I would have picked Mr. Exposure himself - LACY!

[Dekkers]

Manfredo sparks that glass jawed joke Green, that's for sure.:lol:

I'm picking Green, I think it's avatar bet time :hey

[Amsterdam]

I'm picking Green, I think it's avatar bet time :hey

It could go either way because Manfredo is not that good, you know I'm just being a chin checking maniac in spotting Green's apparant lack of punch resistance.:lol:

Bet rejected, if I pick Manfredo, I do so in recognising that it's a "pick 'em".

[Dekkers]

It could go either way because Manfredo is not that good, you know I'm just being a chin checking maniac in spotting Green's apparant lack of punch resistance.:lol:

Bet rejected, if I pick Manfredo, I do so in recognising that it's a "pick 'em".

Damn shame, would've had you promoting Lewis' greatness for a month :hat

[Amsterdam]

Damn shame, would've had you promoting Lewis' greatness for a month :hat


:barf :barf :barf :barf

[boxfan99]

Inkin
Froch
Mundine

[Decebal]

Inkin
Froch
Mundine

:good

[Jambon]

I would like a unification after Froch and Mundine. Green and Manfredo are pointless to me. Green would bring a lot of money in Montreal but still...

Its would be a coward move to fight them, but forgivable at only 21 fights. I hace to admit i dont know Inkin.

[PrideOfWales]

Bute will never share a ring with Calzaghe I'm afraid. There's no point in this fight for Joe. It's too soon for Bute (unless JC ages overnight) and Joe is busy winding down his career pursuing Kessler/Taylor/Hopkins type fights. Bute is just too far off the radar unless, in the unlikely scenario this happens:

Joe vs Kessler falls through - Berrio gets badly injured - Bute vs Kessler is made - Bute shocks the world.

That would be the only scenario where Bute vs Calzaghe would ever be a reality. Bute is a completely different generation and would mean nothing on a Calzaghe resume at this stage.

There are some great fights out there for Bute: Berrio, Inkin, Froch, Lacy, Mundine, Kessler - all very makeable. It's an exciting division in the next few years.

[T.C.W]

let see if he can win the title first.

[boxfan99]

Bute's career would end at Mundine.

Even if he should lose his career doesn't necessarily end. I thought only Calzaghe fans thought this way.:roll:

[Decebal]

Even if he should lose his career doesn't necessarily end. I thought only Calzaghe fans thought this way.:roll:

:good I'd rather see Bute take on too big a challenge than duck good/superior opponents just to remain unbeaten, because as achillesthegreat wrote yesterday, you cannot be sure about how great a fighter is until you see the way he comes back from a defeat. Of course I don't think Lucian should go into the ring unprepared against anyone...he should learn and develop, but every fight should be at least as good as the previous one...and if he gets beaten...no problem...I would look to see his moral stature - can he come back from a blow to his ego and his morale?? If not...I would lose a lot of respect for him...but so far...he looks good from that point of view; he looks like a winner who dares to be great, as, again, achillesthegreat would put it...;)

[Decebal]

let see if he can win the title first.

:good I wasn't being presumptious or jumping the gun...although I could very well have been interpreted as hyping the guy - not my intention!

I wasn't counting my chicks either...I was just planning ahead were Bute really as good as Top 3/4 at SMW in the world and things went to plan.

[djb2009]

froch would be a mistake as bute would get KTFO

[Decebal]

froch would be a mistake as bute would get KTFO

if so, better sooner rather than later...I disagree with you though...

[PrideOfWales]

froch would be a mistake as bute would get KTFO

Can't see it. Would be a good fight NOW though. Yes, Froch can hit hard but Bute is a better boxer.

[Decebal]

Can't see it. Would be a good fight NOW though. Yes, Froch can hit hard but Bute is a better boxer.

Now/soon, it won't happen. Wasn't Froch saying he feels he needs to bed down and improve his skills by going for British, Commonwealth and European first? Sounds to me like he is doing the sensible thing...but a fight against Bute soon...alas...not on the cards:verysad ...the person that Froch should really be going for is Inkin...I'm not sure which one of the two is doing more to avoid the other, though...they are both weary of losing to the other because their stock would go down fast...at the moment they can easily pretend to be in the top 10...so why change that before they are forced to...

[Smazz20]

If I was Bute i'd look to Berrio next. After that, he could have a couple of handy defences against Beyer and even Green or Andrade.

[PrideOfWales]

Now/soon, it won't happen. Wasn't Froch saying he feels he needs to bed down and improve his skills by going for British, Commonwealth and European first? Sounds to me like he is doing the sensible thing...but a fight against Bute soon...alas...not on the cards:verysad ...the person that Froch should really be going for is Inkin...I'm not sure which one of the two is doing more to avoid the other, though...they are both weary of losing to the other because their stock would go down fast...at the moment they can easily pretend to be in the top 10...so why change that before they are forced to...

Because Froch is approaching 30 and he's been calling out the "champs" for a while now.

[PrideOfWales]

If I was Bute i'd look to Berrio next. After that, he could have a couple of handy defences against Beyer and even Green or Andrade.

Well the Berrio should happen next I thought as a mandatory unless I'm wrong? We're all talking about it as a foregone conclusion - an easy win for Bute. So who should be his first defence against?

[Smazz20]

Well the Berrio should happen next I thought as a mandatory unless I'm wrong? We're all talking about it as a foregone conclusion - an easy win for Bute. So who should be his first defence against?

I'd give Beyer a shot. Bute should win quite comfortably but Beyer is a quite experienced and could pose certain problems for him. Beyer would probably take the offer of a title shot aswel.

After him, i'd look to Andrade as that would be a real test of character for Bute. To see how well he copes under pressure.

Hopefull if that was the case. Then by the time that has happened, Froch and Inkin have fought and Bute could fight the winner.

[Decebal]

If I was Bute i'd look to Berrio next.

As PrideofWales was saying, the Berrio fight is a foregone conclusion. Unless Berrio dies or something, it will happen. (Bute v. Bika was an eliminatory for the mandatory against Berrio to be fought until end September...)

[Decebal]

Because Froch is approaching 30 and he's been calling out the "champs" for a while now.

Yeah, yeah...he's been calling out the champs!:lol: Unfortunately, his calling out wasn't in any way credible...! If he wants to have a go at the champs, he should fight Inkin before he's Calzaghe's age!!! But he wants it both ways and that is impossible. He wants the street cred by calling out the champs knowing it won't happen, but he doesn't want to take a chance against Inkin to put himself on the cards! :verysad

[nervousxtian]

He will fight Berrio.. but beating him is NOT a foregone conclusion.

[Decebal]

He will fight Berrio.. but beating him is NOT a foregone conclusion.

:good

[Decebal]

Bute on the Bika fight:

"It was a very, very difficult fight; he was a tough opponent. Bika is very experienced and it showed that he had fought for the world title twice. But I believed that I would win throughout and never gave up for one second."

Bute on the Berrio fight:

"Berrio is a very good boxer and he hits very hard; 25 out of his 26 victories were by KO...but I am not afraid of that. I am ready for a world title fight. I don't want to miss this opportunity.


...Well, Bute has to work on his defence for Berrio...but he should be allright. He might TKO Berrio after a couple of strong bodyshots if the latter had punched himself out against Bute's massive gloves...

[Decebal]

Bute needs to fight someone like an Robin Reid next I think.

It's the next step up against a slick boxer who will punish mistakes - it will take him a level higher than any of his other fights and he should be able to find a win even in an off night

If he faces Inkin, Froch or Lacy - chances are he'll go close against Froch but I feel Inkin is just going to take advantage of Bute's lack of power, low hands and inability to hold his power hand high as he throws the jab.

Lacy? Well, Lacy would still knock half the fucking kids out in 168 - if he comes back to what he was when he beat up Reid, then Lacy is still #2 best at SMW.

OK, here's the deal Blocky...I am taking a chance on you...for as long as you keep your wits about you and don't go back to acting like a drunken seaman on shoreleave you regain your place in civilised society. :deal



Back to your post though...Reid is good, but he is way too low down the rankings to be a worthwile opponent for Bute now...he might be OK for sparring though. Reid lost to Ottke and Lacy...sure, it was in world title fights, but after Bika, fans will expect a more dangerous opponent than Reid (Reid is a step backwards from Bika in my opinion).

I wouldn't climb into the ring with Bute if I were Lacy...at least not for the next 2-3 fights or so. I think Bute could take Lacy, especially since his style is somewhat similar to that of Calzaghe...

Bute should not be afraid of a challenge like Inkin soon. He has to prove he can beat dangerous opponents like Inkin, iron chinned, coeur de lion, 100 proof livered guys like Andrade and "stars" like Lacy and Mundine...otherwise...what is the point of all this hype? He has to improve for these fighters, sure...but that is the whole point, right? If he doesn't improve, then he should quit. I believe he can improve sufficiently fast enough...

Froch will not go close to Bute...not if the latter TKOs or UD's Berrio convincingly. He wouldn't be ready. Ideally, Bute would fight the winner of Froch v. Inkin...but is that on the cards? Both seem to avoid each other.

That is why I would go, after Berrio (if Lucian beats him):

1.Inkin/Froch (if Inkin doesn't fancy it)
(If both Inkin and Froch find an excuse, I would go for Beyer or Braehmer.)

2.Andrade

3. Mundine/Lacy (if Mundine doesn't fancy it)

then I would go for Calzaghe, if he was still around.
only after Calzaghe would I start thinking about Kessler.

[Decebal]

I'd give Beyer a shot. Bute should win quite comfortably but Beyer is a quite experienced and could pose certain problems for him. Beyer would probably take the offer of a title shot aswel.

After him, i'd look to Andrade as that would be a real test of character for Bute. To see how well he copes under pressure.

Hopefull if that was the case. Then by the time that has happened, Froch and Inkin have fought and Bute could fight the winner.

sounds good!:good

[DanePugilist]

I will for once agree with Smazz20. Beyer and Andrade would be good fights that would mature Bute even further.

However I dont think there is time for so many fights before meeting Kessler et al, because Lucas himself said that Kessler-Bute is on next year(if Bute wrestles IBF from Berrio).

[Decebal]

I will for once agree with Smazz20. Beyer and Andrade would be good fights that would mature Bute even further.

However I dont think there is time for so many fights before meeting Kessler et al, because Lucas himself said that Kessler-Bute is on next year(if Bute wrestles IBF from Berrio).

There was talk of Kessler v. Bute in a year's time or so...that gives 3 fights tops for Bute if he beats Berrio...before Kessler...but more realistically, just two...I would make it Inkin and Andrade and if I had time for another fight...Mundine or Lacy.

[DanePugilist]

There was talk of Kessler v. Bute in a year's time or so...that gives 3 fights tops for Bute if he beats Berrio...before Kessler...but more realistically, just two...I would make it Inkin and Andrade and if I had time for another fight...Mundine or Lacy.If I was the promoter of Bute, I wouldn't let him near Inkin or Froch. Not because he couldn't beat them, but simply because they are as in now - questionmarks - in a sense too much risk vs reward.

Beyer and Andrade went against Kessler, and its pretty standard that a fighter choses those opponents as to see how well he does in comparison. I would tip my hat if he fights Mundine or Lacy after that, as it would cement Bute(if winning) in the same breath as Calzaghe and Kessler.

[Decebal]

If I was the promoter of Bute, I wouldn't let him near Inkin or Froch. Not because he couldn't beat them, but simply because they are as in now - questionmarks - in a sense too much risk vs reward.

Beyer and Andrade went against Kessler, and its pretty standard that a fighter choses those opponents as to see how well he does in comparison. I would tip my hat if he fights Mundine or Lacy after that, as it would cement Bute(if winning) in the same breath as Calzaghe and Kessler.

fair enough...But it has to be AT LEAST Andrade/Lacy in his first two fights after Berrio. Then, it HAS to be Mundine or Andrade/Lacy...otherwise fans like me would be disappointed...:yep Bute has to rise up to the challenge...better do his best and take a chance of losing, then live it down and become a clown...:rasta

[Decebal]

:happy Bute has to maintain momentum by picking harder and harder fights which he can rise up to and win. If he gets overambitious, it's game over, if he's overcautious and dodges, his form will flatten out and he'll never make it to the top...Do you agree?

Lucas and Larouche seem to have confidence in him to lead him down this middle path unscathed...let's hope they go straight down the middle!:happy

[DanePugilist]

fair enough...But it has to be AT LEAST Andrade/Lacy in his first two fights after Berrio. Then, it HAS to be Mundine or Andrade/Lacy...otherwise fans like me would be disappointed...:yep Bute has to rise up to the challenge...better do his best and take a chance of losing, then live it down and become a clown...:rasta:lol::D - I guess you are right, winning the IBF does not suffice. One should always increase the lvl of competition once becoming WC. Lacy or Mundine would defining fights for Bute, and if he comes out on top - he is then one of the most dangerous men at 168.

However there must be a legitimately challenger for Kessler also, should the fight with JC happen and MK coming out on top. As I see it, that would only leave Mundine or Lacy. Unfortunately Inkin and Froch has done nothing to be rewarded a chance against him - yet.

Sincerely would like to see him whoop Frochs butt though.

[DanePugilist]

:happy Bute has to maintain momentum by picking harder and harder fights which he can rise up to and win. If he gets overambitious, it's game over, if he's overcautious and dodges, his form will flatten out and he'll never make it to the top...Do you agree?

Lucas and Larouche seem to have confidence in him to lead him down this middle path unscathed...let's hope they go straight down the middle!:happyI totally agree with this assessment, as it is where I stand:lol:. Its the smartest thing - and no one will hate him for it, I reckon.

[Decebal]

There must be a legitimately challenger for Kessler also, should the fight with JC happen and MK coming out on top. As I see it, that would only leave Mundine or Lacy. Unfortunately Inkin and Froch has done nothing to be rewarded a chance against him - yet.

Sincerely would like to see him whoop Frochs butt though.

Inkin and Froch better get it on...otherwise they will be left behind. There is no way in hell either could beat Kessler though, not in 6 months, not in 9, not in a year, not ever!

[Amsterdam]

It's not likely that anyone except for Dawson and Calzaghe beat Kessler from the the 160-175 general crop, he's just too damn good and you need superior speed to offset his rythym for a victory.

[Decebal]

It's not likely that anyone except for Dawson and Calzaghe beat Kessler from the the 160-175 general crop, he's just too damn good and you need superior speed to offset his rythym for a victory.

:good any revised thoughts on the next 3 fights for Bute after Berrio to prepare him for Kessler? (Notice how I'm NOT saying that he would beat Kessler even if he were to win the next 4 fights...)

[Amsterdam]

:good any revised thoughts on the next 3 fights for Bute after Berrio to prepare him for Kessler? (Notice how I'm NOT saying that he would beat Kessler even if he were to win the next 4 fights...)

If Kessler and Bute do get matched up down the road, put 500 pounds on Kessler, you WON'T lose, impossible.

Anyway,

Veit, Mundine, Inkin were my picks and I stick to those, he'd have his work cut out for him in Mundine and Inkin and it would show good things from Bute if he beat both clearly.

Even if he did however, Kessler still chops him to pieces and sends him home bloody and battle torn, while walking away with no scratch on his face and going come to most likely some fit bird.:lol:

[Decebal]

If Kessler and Bute do get matched up down the road, put 500 pounds on Kessler, you WON'T lose, impossible.

Anyway,

Veit, Mundine, Inkin were my picks and I stick to those, he'd have his work cut out for him in Mundine and Inkin and it would show good things from Bute if he beat both clearly.

Even if he did however, Kessler still chops him to pieces and sends him home bloody and battle torn, while walking away with no scratch on his face and going come to most likely some fit bird.:lol:

:lol: And I would walk home proud that Bute has faced the best and done his all to win!:happy

Hands up if you think that it would be good for Bute as a man and as a boxer, and not least, for his career, if he faced Kessler in 12-15 months!

[DanePugilist]

It's not likely that anyone except for Dawson and Calzaghe beat Kessler from the the 160-175 general crop, he's just too damn good and you need superior speed to offset his rythym for a victory.They should have the chance to do so.

I would hate Kessler for saying that the crop were beneath him, if he handles Calzaghe, only to aim at the more well-known fighters. He should clean out 168 before doing anything else - or at least attempt to do so. After that - he can do whatever he wants.

I don't disagree with your assessment - but he has to prove it also by facing them.

[Decebal]

If Kessler and Bute do get matched up down the road, put 500 pounds on Kessler, you WON'T lose, impossible.



I couldn't bet against Bute...I just couldn't...remember, you couldn't bet against JC either...;)

[Amsterdam]

They should have the chance to do so.

I would hate Kessler for saying that the crop were beneath him, if he handles Calzaghe, only to aim at the more well-known fighters. He should clean out 168 before doing anything else - or at least attempt to do so. After that - he can do whatever he wants.

I don't disagree with your assessment - but he has to prove it also by facing them.

I think MK's about as good for boxing as it gets. Intelligent, classy, charismatic to a point and astonishingly skilled, also, he seems to want to face the best and took fights that he didn't have to already and passed with flying colours...

But Calzaghe will beat him, and that won't take away from him.

Dawson will also beat him, that won't take away from him either. Both of these guys are stylistic nightmares for him and would finish what Mundine laid down in terms of speed/swarming upsetting Kessler's game.

Every other fighter from 160-175 doesn't just lose, but they lose in shutout/destruction fashion and the tactical displays will be some of the best exhibitions from the Euro boxer-puncher style ever, so I am very excited whenever MK has a fight coming up.

He'll likely clean 168, but he will lose to Calzaghe, which is why Palle is being such an utter cunt.:deal

[Decebal]

Amsterdam, we'll see!;)

[DanePugilist]

I think MK's about as good for boxing as it gets. Intelligent, classy, charismatic to a point and astonishingly skilled, also, he seems to want to face the best and took fights that he didn't have to already and passed with flying colours...

But Calzaghe will beat him, and that won't take away from him.

Dawson will also beat him, that won't take away from him either. Both of these guys are stylistic nightmares for him and would finish what Mundine laid down in terms of speed/swarming upsetting Kessler's game.

Every other fighter from 160-175 doesn't just lose, but they lose in shutout/destruction fashion and the tactical displays will be some of the best exhibitions from the Euro boxer-puncher style ever, so I am very excited whenever MK has a fight coming up.

He'll likely clean 168, but he will lose to Calzaghe, which is why Palle is being such an utter cunt.:dealI agree that loosing to these two guys won't take much away from him.

I am also glad to see that finally someone agrees with his almost flawless boxer-puncher style.

However, I am not certain, that Calzaghe possesses the necessary speed at this point to close Kessler down. How Kessler would fare at 175 is uncertain also. I think its too early to say that Dawson would best him. It takes more than speed to beat him, imo - it takes a perfect gameplan, intelligence and/or experience - Dawson doesn't possess experience at this point.

If both wins vs Kessler, its because they are simply better fighters, not because of superior speed.

[Decebal]

If both win vs Kessler, its because they are simply better fighters, not because of superior speed.

:good

[Amsterdam]

I agree that loosing to these two guys won't take much away from him.

I am also glad to see that finally someone agrees with his almost flawless boxer-puncher style.

However, I am not certain, that Calzaghe possesses the necessary speed at this point to close Kessler down. How Kessler would fare at 175 is uncertain also. I think its too early to say that Dawson would best him. It takes more than speed to beat him, imo - it takes a perfect gameplan, intelligence and/or experience - Dawson doesn't possess experience at this point.

If both wins vs Kessler, its because they are simply better fighters, not because of superior speed.

The way I see it is that they are all over the same level in terms of the skill/intangible/experience comparison, Calzaghe having the experience and the intangibles of frantic relentlessness and a good chin, Dawson having a flawless defence and amazing accuracy/speed and Kessler having flawless aspects of his own style with extremely great poise.

So at that point, it's even up to such a fine point, that a simple factor like superior speed and stylistic advantage will be enough to "edge" it in terms of getting the victory...

By the way, Calzaghe gets everybody.;)

[Decebal]

Now that conversation has moved on to Kessler, whom should he face after Calzaghe? Let us assume that the following fight would be in March-April 2008...

[Amsterdam]

Now that conversation has moved on to Kessler, whom should he face after Calzaghe? Let us assume that the following fight would be in March-April 2008...

Well, any of the other top 10 would be perfect comeback opponents after a bad loss.:yep :yep

[Decebal]

Well, any of the other top 10 would be perfect comeback opponents after a bad loss.:yep :yep

Let's hear some names in order of preference, Amsterdam!

[DanePugilist]

The way I see it is that they are all over the same level in terms of the skill/intangible/experience comparison, Calzaghe having the experience and the intangibles of frantic relentlessness and a good chin, Dawson having a flawless defence and amazing accuracy/speed and Kessler having flawless aspects of his own style with extremely great poise.

So at that point, it's even up to such a fine point, that a simple factor like superior speed and stylistic advantage will be enough to "edge" it in terms of getting the victory...

By the way, Calzaghe gets everybody.;)Precision > Speed. Kessler is the most accurate puncher of the three. There are so many intangibles that predicting based on assets/weaknesses would be folly.

I agree that its virtually impossible to predict the outcome of these matches, since as you say they are all masters of their given field. I will believe that Kessler has what it takes to beat these men, until proven otherwise.

Calzaghe has struggled before, Kessler has not - I know that means little, but thats why my money is on Kessler til someone has his number.

[DanePugilist]

Let's hear some names in order of preference, Amsterdam!If he loses there is only one fighter he should meet first, and that would be Mundine.

[Decebal]

If he loses there is only one fighter he should meet first, and that would be Mundine.

That is the obvious choice. Unless someone had beaten Mundine by then...:good

[Decebal]

if he lost to cal, i would actually prefer that he went after bute, trying to get the ibf belt..

"...unless someone had beaten Mundine by then...":lol:

[boxfan99]

The way I see it is that they are all over the same level in terms of the skill/intangible/experience comparison, Calzaghe having the experience and the intangibles of frantic relentlessness and a good chin, Dawson having a flawless defence and amazing accuracy/speed and Kessler having flawless aspects of his own style with extremely great poise.

So at that point, it's even up to such a fine point, that a simple factor like superior speed and stylistic advantage will be enough to "edge" it in terms of getting the victory...

By the way, Calzaghe gets everybody.;)

Of course he does, just too bad he won't fight anybody worth a damn to prove it.:p Oh yeah, I forgot, he already proved it against Lacy and therefore never has to fight anybody good again.:D

[boxfan99]

Now that conversation has moved on to Kessler, whom should he face after Calzaghe? Let us assume that the following fight would be in March-April 2008...

Mundine II, just to kill all the rumours about how Mundine has transformed into an unbeatable entity since they last fought.:yep

[DanePugilist]

"...unless someone had beaten Mundine by then...":lol:Unless Berrio beats Bute:lol: .

If Kessler beats Mundine. Then his sights most be on either Bute or a rematch with Calzaghe(depending on how the fight pans out).

[Decebal]

Bute has a good chance of getting his hands on the IBF belt. He will then hope to be an attractive option for the one who loses between Calzaghe and Kessler. That would mean he has until, say, April-May 2008 at the latest to get some more experience. Berrio is in September. January could be his first defence! Damn, that would mean just one more fight between Berrio and JC-MK loser...he would really have to make it count, because there is much to learn...I would go for Andrade or Lacy...or...if I was pushed: Mundine...so...I would let Froch and Inkin fight it out between themselves, if I only had one match to prepare...

looks exciting doesn't it?

in the next year or so we could witness:

Bute v. Berrio
Froch v. Inkin
Calzaghe v. Kessler
Andrade v. Lacy
Kessler v. Mundine
Bute v. Andrade/Lacy/Mundine
Bute v. Calzaghe/Kessler
:happy :happy :happy :happy :happy :happy

but, Mundine, Andrade and Lacy would probably also want to have a fight in the meantime...it would be nice to see Andrade v. Lacy and then Bute against the winner or against Mundine...in the meantime, Mundine should take on a puncher...god knows whom...Kessler!!!

[boxfan99]

Precision > Speed. Kessler is the most accurate puncher of the three. There are so many intangibles that predicting based on assets/weaknesses would be folly.

I agree that its virtually impossible to predict the outcome of these matches, since as you say they are all masters of their given field. I will believe that Kessler has what it takes to beat these men, until proven otherwise.

Calzaghe has struggled before, Kessler has not - I know that means little, but thats why my money is on Kessler til someone has his number.

Up until recently I held Calzaghe as a 55-45 favourite against Kessler, but after having seen Calzaghes latest performances I now hold Kessler as a 60-40 favourite. Calzaghe is simply not the fighter he once was anymore.:-(

I think Kesslers biggest chance against Dawson is to simply KO him, since Dawson doesn't seem to have the best chin around, I still have to pick Dawson to win a UD though.

[Decebal]

Unless Berrio beats Bute:lol: .

If Kessler beats Mundine. Then his sights most be on either Bute or a rematch with Calzaghe(depending on how the fight pans out).

:lol: :good

[Decebal]

Mundine II, just to kill all the rumours about how Mundine has transformed into an unbeatable entity since they last fought.:yep

that seems wise...in that case there's more time for Bute to develop:yep

[Decebal]

Bute has a good chance of getting his hands on the IBF belt. He will then hope to be an attractive option for the one who loses between Calzaghe and Kessler. That would mean he has until, say, April-May 2008 at the latest to get some more experience. Berrio is in September. January could be his first defence! Damn, that would mean just one more fight between Berrio and JC-MK loser...he would really have to make it count, because there is much to learn...I would go for Andrade or Lacy...or...if I was pushed: Mundine...so...I would let Froch and Inkin fight it out between themselves, if I only had one match to prepare...

looks exciting doesn't it?

in the next year or so we could witness:

Bute v. Berrio
Froch v. Inkin
Calzaghe v. Kessler
Andrade v. Lacy
Kessler v. Mundine
Bute v. Andrade/Lacy/Mundine
Bute v. Calzaghe/Kessler
:happy :happy :happy :happy :happy :happy

but, Mundine, Andrade and Lacy would probably also want to have a fight in the meantime...it would be nice to see Andrade v. Lacy and then Bute against the winner or against Mundine...in the meantime, Mundine should take on a puncher...god knows whom...Kessler!!!

any thoughts?:think

[nervousxtian]

Should this thread be about who fights Kessler after Bute loses to either Berrio, Froch, or Inkin?

[Decebal]

Should this thread be about who fights Kessler after Bute loses to either Berrio, Froch, or Inkin?

no...this thread assumes that Bute beats Berrio and aims to fight some fights which if he wins them, would prepare him for JC and MK...This said, which fights should these be?

[Amsterdam]

no...this thread assumes that Bute beats Berrio and aims to fight some fights which if he wins them, would prepare him for JC and MK...This said, which fights should these be?

We've established who they should be. I doubt anyone else has anything to add that hasn't been said, which is why it switched over to MK.

If it keeps going, it may switch over into a "fuck Jermain Taylor" thread, because that bastard is going down soon.

[Decebal]

We've established who they should be. I doubt anyone else has anything to add that hasn't been said, which is why it switched over to MK.

If it keeps going, it may switch over into a "fuck Jermain Taylor" thread, because that bastard is going down soon.

:oops:

[PrideOfWales]

Where's the Bute Express when you need it?

[Decebal]

Where's the Bute Express when you need it?

the Bute haters' express has crashed and burnt! Deserved it!:lol:

[DanePugilist]

any thoughts?:thinkIt really in the cards that the future of SMW will hold a undisputed champ. This division is so competetive - even if it lost some of the x-factors such as Allan Green and Chanet Jackson(?).

I don't really think that the fighters of now and tomorrow will "hide" behind one belt only. The propects of future bouts should make any boxing fan put smiles on their faces.

All the matches you have laid down are all very likely and viable. My only wish would be that JC was only 25 though - and more known names(overrated(?)) had the balls to let go of their in-bred matchups (read: Taylor-Hopkins, Taylor-Winky, Winky-Hopkins, RJJ-Tarver, Hopkins-Tarver). and throw them into the mix.

[Decebal]

It really in the cards that the future of SMW will hold a undisputed champ. This division is so competetive - even if it lost some of the x-factors such as Allan Green and Chanet Jackson(?).

I don't really think that the fighters of now and tomorrow will "hide" behind one belt only. The propects of future bouts should make any boxing fan put smiles on their faces.

All the matches you have laid down are all very likely and viable. My only wish would be that JC was only 25 though - and more known names(overrated(?)) had the balls to let go of their in-bred matchups (read: Taylor-Hopkins, Taylor-Winky, Winky-Hopkins, RJJ-Tarver, Hopkins-Tarver). and throw them into the mix.

:good

[DanePugilist]

Up until recently I held Calzaghe as a 55-45 favourite against Kessler, but after having seen Calzaghes latest performances I now hold Kessler as a 60-40 favourite. Calzaghe is simply not the fighter he once was anymore.:-(

I think Kesslers biggest chance against Dawson is to simply KO him, since Dawson doesn't seem to have the best chin around, I still have to pick Dawson to win a UD though.I am somewhat twist and torn about what your are saying.

For the most part I have held Kessler as favorite vs Calzaghe. But basing it on the last two matches does not entirely give JC enough credit.

I simply feel that JC was in an awkward emotional situation, where he came off a great win vs Lacy - in which I myself think he was a bit surprising to himself(by the manner it went).

Now I don't think he really took Bika as serious as he should, got frustrated, and fought like one of those fighters that fights in their buildups. Conclusion: His mindset was not up to par with the lvl of competition.

Everyone knows that the Manfredo matchup was just wrong in boxing terms. I can't really see how the fight reflected poorly on JC was a boxer. He did what he could, and the match was rightfully stopped(which it should have been before the first bell).

What the real question to me is concerning JC - was the brilliance vs Lacy - the best we will ever see Calzaghe perform?

Still I see JC as a bigger threat to Kessler than I see Dawson to either. I want to see more to be thorougly convinced that he can deliver at top level.

[boxfan99]

I am somewhat twist and torn about what your are saying.

For the most part I have held Kessler as favorite vs Calzaghe. But basing it on the last two matches does not entirely give JC enough credit.

I simply feel that JC was in an awkward emotional situation, where he came off a great win vs Lacy - in which I myself think he was a bit surprising to himself(by the manner it went).

Now I don't think he really took Bika as serious as he should, got frustrated, and fought like one of those fighters that fights in their buildups. Conclusion: His mindset was not up to par with the lvl of competition.

Everyone knows that the Manfredo matchup was just wrong in boxing terms. I can't really see how the fight reflected poorly on JC was a boxer. He did what he could, and the match was rightfully stopped(which it should have been before the first bell).

What the real question to me is concerning JC - was the brilliance vs Lacy - the best we will ever see Calzaghe perform?

Still I see JC as a bigger threat to Kessler than I see Dawson to either. I want to see more to be thorougly convinced that he can deliver at top level.

Have you seen the Manfredo fight? Calzaghe did nearly nothing against this very weak opponent in the first two rounds, he still won them though, since Manfredo didn't do anything at all the entire three rounds. My point is Calzaghe didn't look good at all against Manfredo not even when he stopped him by karate-chopping him into submission (most of these wild chops missed by the way).

Regarding the Bika fight, I don't buy into the "Calzaghe only fights good against good opposition"-myth. Still if this "myth" should prove to be right, then I guess he will fight very poorly against Kessler considering how bad Kessler is according to Blocky.:lol:

[Faetter_BR]

A bit of the same problem that you'll see with Mikkel Kessler, he's had it too easy his entire career and when he takes that little step further, no one really knows if he can adapt and get a gameplan working.

Just out of interest...

Who could Kessler have fought that are better than the ones he fought??? (other than Calzaghe)

[Decebal]

Have you seen the Manfredo fight? Calzaghe did nearly nothing against this very weak opponent in the first two rounds, he still won them though, since Manfredo didn't do anything at all the entire three rounds. My point is Calzaghe didn't look good at all against Manfredo not even when he stopped him by karate-chopping him into submission (most of these wild chops missed by the way).

Regarding the Bika fight, I don't buy into the "Calzaghe only fights good against good opposition"-myth. Still if this "myth" should prove to be right, then I guess he will fight very poorly against Kessler considering how bad Kessler is according to Blocky.:lol:

:lol: Calzaghe will not find it so easy to use his trademark skills against Kessler...he will have to cut in and out quickly...he won't be able to swarm Kessler with impunity as he did Lacy, for example. Kessler is currently working on his speed. He will not be a heavy log easily tagged, not even by JC...and Kessler will hit hard...he will tire JC down. A hell of a fight...Kessler should win it though...if he plays his cards right.

[boxfan99]

:lol: Calzaghe will not find it so easy to use his trademark skills against Kessler...he will have to cut in and out quickly...he won't be able to swarm Kessler with impunity as he did Lacy, for example. Kessler is currently working on his speed. He will not be a heavy log easily tagged, not even by JC...and Kessler will hit hard...he will tire JC down. A hell of a fight...Kessler should win it though...if he plays his cards right.

:good

Now prepare yourself to be called a fuckwit, dumbfuck or something similar by Blocky.:lol:

[Decebal]

:good

Now prepare yourself to be called a fuckwit, dumbfuck or something similar by Blocky.:lol:

:nono I gave Blocky a chance but he blew it...he's back on my ignore list...I doubt I'll make that mistake soon!

[boxfan99]

So I've started keeping a notepad of all of these little threads... when Kessler gets his ass kicked and Bute is KO'ed by a strong hooker, I'll post them for memories sake

Good for you. Keep up the good work.:good

[Odo]

Bute is not ready for Calzaghe and Kessler. He needs more time to improve his defence and become less hesitant. I guess that can be summed up by saying he needs more experience. So which three fights would you plan for Bute if you were his manager, assuming that he would beat Berrio?

Here's what Amsterdam thought:



That seems a wise choice. Still I would want to see Bute go 12 rounds with someone...both Berrio and Veit might be quite short fights...Bute would look good and his KO record would improve...but it might not be the best preparation for Calzaghe and Kessler. So which 3 fights would prepare Bute best for his betters?

I'd be tempted to go:

1. Inkin
2. Froch/Lacy (by May 2008 he should have recovered)
3. Mundine

What do you think?


Inkin can make you look very bad,and he is a bloody dangerous counterboxer.What's more he isnt very known among the casual box fans worldwide.High risk,little reward.Mundine would probably be the best fight for Bute IMO.

By the way what about a rematch with Golovkin at the pros?
Golovkin knocked Bute out at the amateurs-he is now 8-0 at the pros.Golovkin looked great in his last outing to a box ring.

[PrideOfWales]

Inkin can make you look very bad,and he is a bloody dangerous counterboxer.What's more he isnt very known among the casual box fans worldwide.High risk,little reward.Mundine would probably be the best fight for Bute IMO.

By the way what about a rematch with Golovkin at the pros?
Golovkin knocked Bute out at the amateurs-he is now 8-0 at the pros.Golovkin looked great in his last outing to a box ring.

Start the Golovkin express now!!

[DanePugilist]

Have you seen the Manfredo fight? Calzaghe did nearly nothing against this very weak opponent in the first two rounds, he still won them though, since Manfredo didn't do anything at all the entire three rounds. My point is Calzaghe didn't look good at all against Manfredo not even when he stopped him by karate-chopping him into submission (most of these wild chops missed by the way).

Regarding the Bika fight, I don't buy into the "Calzaghe only fights good against good opposition"-myth. Still if this "myth" should prove to be right, then I guess he will fight very poorly against Kessler considering how bad Kessler is according to Blocky.:lol:Yes, I saw the Manfredo match - commentated by our own Claus Borre. And I have never argued against what you are saying now - the match was stopped, because it clearly showed that Manfredo was overmatch - which he equally would be if he met any other top 5 guy at SMW.

The guys high ranking is a joke. His performance vs JC was utterly embarressing.. The fight was not stopped because of JC(nor have I ever claimed that(check out my post-match post, right after the fight)), but because of Manfredos reluctance to do anything at all. But saying that JC has looked like shit - doesn't seem right based on that fight - slapping or not. To me he did what he should do.

Nor I have said anything about the "myth" - I just explained what I felt went on inside JCs head against Bika - which is merely speculation on my part.

The last part made me giggle though - good stuff.

[boxfan99]

Yes, I saw the Manfredo match - commentated by our own Claus Borre. And I have never argued against what you are saying now - the match was stopped, because it clearly showed that Manfredo was overmatch - which he equally would be if he met any other top 5 guy at SMW.

The guys high ranking is a joke. His performance vs JC was utterly embarressing.. The fight was not stopped because of JC(nor have I ever claimed that(check out my post-match post, right after the fight)), but because of Manfredos reluctance to do anything at all. But saying that JC has looked like shit - doesn't seem right based on that fight - slapping or not. To me he did what he should do.

Nor I have said anything about the "myth" - I just explained what I felt went on inside JCs head against Bika - which is merely speculation on my part.

The last part made me giggle though - good stuff.

I see we mostly agree, but I just wan't to make one thing completely clear, I have never ever said Calzaghe looked like shit, all I said was that he didn't look that good in his latest fights.

Regarding the myth part, that wasn't directed especially at you. I still think Calzaghe was 100% set up for his fight against Bika, heck he would be interested in showing his a-game on HBO, I would think.

[DanePugilist]

I see we mostly agree, but I just wan't to make one thing completely clear, I have never ever said Calzaghe looked like shit, all I said was that he didn't look that good in his latest fights.

Regarding the myth part, that wasn't directed especially at you. I still think Calzaghe was 100% set up for his fight against Bika, heck he would be interested in showing his a-game on HBO, I would think.alrighty then:good:thumbsup - sorry that I misquoted you.

I think your explanation concerning the Bika fight was better than mine.

[Odo]

Start the Golovkin express now!!


Why not? Seriously,Golovkin still needs about 2 years and half a dozen of fights to take on any top gun,but he has talent,can punch,had a great amateur career(he won the silver medal at the last olympic tournament),and a powerful promoter.He can go very far IMO.

[PrideOfWales]

Why not? Seriously,Golovkin still needs about 2 years and half a dozen of fights to take on any top gun,but he has talent,can punch,had a great amateur career(he won the silver medal at the last olympic tournament),and a powerful promoter.He can go very far IMO.

Do it then! I've never seen him fight - I would feel like a fraud.