Kessler-Calzaghe September date in trouble

[Bad_Intentions]

according to a new report by dan rafael, the bout with both underfeated fighters Joe Calzaghe v.s Mikkel Kessler is in trouble. calzaghe's camp told rafael that Frank ****** and Mogens Palle on a date of September 22 at London's O2 Arena, but HBO does not have Sept. 22 available, and the network has not agreed on the financial terms with the promoters.

the promoters have asked for 5$ million dollars, which hbo feels it's too HIGH. Ross Greenburg, president of HBO Sports and promoter Frank ****** have agreed to continue discussions.

[jc]

:D Fuckin Yanks...

[PrideOfWales]

This is ridiculous. A bout between the two best SMW's in the world is being thwarted by an American TV network!!! That's pathetic! This is why the boxing world would be a better place without the USA getting involved.

[Boro chris]

So this fight might not get made because of lack of demand?

That comes under my definition of 'ironic'.:patsch

[jimmie]

:patsch

[sandwichsurgeon]

I will kill myself if this bout is removed from HBO's schedule due to a new show entitled: Paris does China

[Kostya Zoo]

Wow I really thought that HBO wanted this fight.

[Cross of Iron]

It doesn't matter to me if HBO carries the fight or not. Just as long as they fight. In time it would be shown on youtube anyway.

For many fights I have to wait a week before seeing them on regular cable or sometimes not at all if it is a Showtime fight.

[DonPrestige]

I dont think you can put all the blame on HBO, as usual is it a surprise that Frank ****** is trying to squeeze out as much cash as he can out of this fight just in case his cash cow gets beat. All the talk about wanting the fight to happen but yet again the Calzaghe camp is looking to make all the terms. What makes them think they can just almost double the asking price.

[C.J.Rock]

I dont think you can put all the blame on HBO, as usual is it a surprise that Frank ****** is trying to squeeze out as much cash as he can out of this fight just in case his cash cow gets beat. All the talk about wanting the fight to happen but yet again the Calzaghe camp is looking to make all the terms. What makes them think they can just almost double the asking price.

Hey hang on a minute the kemo sabay it was PALLE that made that offer not ****** bame the right guy for a change

[Cookie]

This is ridiculous. A bout between the two best SMW's in the world is being thwarted by an American TV network!!! That's pathetic! This is why the boxing world would be a better place without the USA getting involved.

It's the opposite. The two promoters are whining about a lack of American involvement. :lol:

[Lampley]

It's the opposite. The two promoters are whining about a lack of American involvement. :lol:

Exactly. You have all these threads about how well Europe can pull off fights better than Las Vegas, etc., etc., and yet here we have the a huge fight over there that's essentially begging the big, bad US cable network to pony up the cash. I still think it will happen, but the two sides will have to accept maybe 4 million, or something else closer to the middle. I hope HBO hasn't dug in its heels at 3 mil.

Remember, HBO also apparently changed terms for Taylor/Pavlik from 5 million to something lower. I hope the network isn't de-emphasizing the sport. Maybe it's just a matter of too many fights too close together, and the budget is stretched.

[Max Molyneux]

according to a new report by dan rafael, the bout with both underfeated fighters Joe Calzaghe v.s Mikkel Kessler is in trouble. calzaghe's camp told rafael that Frank ****** and Mogens Palle on a date of September 22 at London's O2 Arena, but HBO does not have Sept. 22 available, and the network has not agreed on the financial terms with the promoters.

the promoters have asked for 5$ million dollars, which hbo feels it's too HIGH. Ross Greenburg, president of HBO Sports and promoter Frank ****** have agreed to continue discussions.

A couple of days ago the Danes announced that Palle said the fight Is 95% certain to be In Wales. Since when was anything mentioned to be In London?

[Max Molyneux]

Fuck HBO anyway, they'd rather have I'm too addicted to boxing to retire Hopkins Vs Winky Wright as PPV!

[Lampley]

Fuck HBO anyway, they'd rather have I'm too addicted to boxing to retire Hopkins Vs Winky Wright as PPV!

If the two sides were able to say, Fuck HBO, wouldn't they have already done it? They obviously need the bloated American cable company to slip them some cash and pat them on the head. Nothing could be more obvious.

[China_hand_Joe]

Before all the "fuck HBO stuff. Just remember this forum has a hugely disproportional demand for the fight compared to that amongst a wider sample of fans. This is not a big fight at all in America.

[Rollo]

I am starting to wonder if this fight will ever come off.......:-(

[Steve Fox]

I am starting to wonder if this fight will ever come off.......:-(You're starting to wonder?

[Half-Dane]

You're starting to wonder?

:yep :yep :yep

[THN]

I think a nov. date in copenhagen make sence, when you think about it, it looks like ****** have a problem to make the fight in Wales in sept.

[THN]

Imo. they should fight tomorrow

[Cross of Iron]

No they don't need HBO or the US for this fight to come off... unless they want all the money they can get from TV revenue.

As far as this not being a big fight in the US, probably there is some truth in that. There are plenty of US boxing fans who would like to watch Kessler fight Calzaghe in Europe . It doesn't matter where since most fans watch fights on TV anyway.

... Kessler by TKO round 10

[BaronBrad]

I think a nov. date in copenhagen make sence, when you think about it, it looks like ****** have a problem to make the fight in Wales in sept.


The problem with a Nov date/venue is the UK fight fan. I have just gotten back from Vegas having seen Hatton vs Castillo. I am not particularly a Hatton fan but I know when I am going to get a good fight and a good holiday out of a boxing event.

If Kessler/Calzaghe were on in Denmark in November and Hatton vs Mayweather/Cotto or another big name were also on for Vegas or NYC in November then I know where I will be spending my money. Vegas here I come :happy

[BaronBrad]

I think a nov. date in copenhagen make sence, when you think about it, it looks like ****** have a problem to make the fight in Wales in sept.


The problem with a Nov date/venue is the UK fight fan. I have just gotten back from Vegas having seen Hatton vs Castillo. I am not particularly a Hatton fan but I know when I am going to get a good fight and a good holiday out of a boxing event.

If Kessler/Calzaghe were on in Denmark in November and Hatton vs Mayweather/Cotto or another big name were also on for Vegas or NYC in November then I know where I will be spending my money. Vegas here I come :happy

I don't know how keen Calzaghe will be to fight Kessler in Denmark if he knows that Kessler will have the larger fan base.

[ThePlugInBabies]

are you being serious? calzaghe-kessler will piss all over any fight involving hatton, cotto and mayweather. i wanna see a real tough competitive fight, not watch floyd shut out hatton or cotto with ease, and also because it will begin the demise of all these kessler fanboys that have turned up over the past year or so.

[CASH_718]

No they don't need HBO or the US for this fight to come off... unless they want all the money they can get from TV revenue.

As far as this not being a big fight in the US, probably there is some truth in that. There are plenty of US boxing fans who would like to watch Kessler fight Calzaghe in Europe . It doesn't matter where since most fans watch fights on TV anyway.

... Kessler by TKO round 10

They don't need the 3 or 4 million HBO is willing to pay for the fight??? I never heard someone say no we don't need that extra few million thanks anyway.:patsch Fuckin Canadian.:patsch

[Taffyy]

Before all the "fuck HBO stuff. Just remember this forum has a hugely disproportional demand for the fight compared to that amongst a wider sample of fans. This is not a big fight at all in America.
Yeh because the best SMW available are european........Makes me fucking sick..........It would be great to tell the yanks to just fuck off sometimes......:?

[Taffyy]

Fair play Blocky............Im a "fuck em" type of poster but alot of what you say really makes sense....& not just on this thread.......Like you said it seems to me a clear cut case of coming back to bite you ont he arse !!!!

[teetop]

according to a new report by dan rafael, the bout with both underfeated fighters Joe Calzaghe v.s Mikkel Kessler is in trouble. calzaghe's camp told rafael that Frank ****** and Mogens Palle on a date of September 22 at London's O2 Arena, but HBO does not have Sept. 22 available, and the network has not agreed on the financial terms with the promoters.

the promoters have asked for 5$ million dollars, which hbo feels it's too HIGH. Ross Greenburg, president of HBO Sports and promoter Frank ****** have agreed to continue discussions.

This ross greenburg prick seems to have the reverse king midas touch.
He'd better not fuck this fight up or he'll be the one fired not merchant.

[Max Molyneux]

If the two sides were able to say, Fuck HBO, wouldn't they have already done it? They obviously need the bloated American cable company to slip them some cash and pat them on the head. Nothing could be more obvious.

****** could afford It without HBO, theres more channels than HBO.

He should go to Showtime Instead like he used to unless Calzaghe has some HBO 3 fight deal like Hatton.

HBO prefer who Golden Boy wants them to prefer.

[teetop]

What have I been saying all along.....??

Kessler and Palle have over-estimated the value of this fight. They've made a fixed deal to Calzaghe and ******, who after doing the math realised that the deal was too good to be true and took it.

Now Palle is held over a bucket, trying to find the money he's going to require to get Calzaghe's expenses paid, let alone his own - so now, instead of Copenhagen, he's succombed and said "Why not England" and as for wanting $5 mil from HBO? That's more to pay Calzaghes salary than anything else

At max, the entire card makes $12 mil in revenue in my view. Take away $1.5million for promotion, $1 million for production, $2 million for undercard, $500k for venue hire - you're left with $7 million - Calzaghe takes $5.5 of that - leaving Kessler with what, 1.5 million?

This is irony at it's best

2 million on the undercard?? Who the fuck is going to be fighting under
those 2 that would demand that kind of cheddar.?

[pipe wrenched]

Shit man I'm American and this IS the fight I most want to see. Maybe we could set up something to let HBO know this is the fight the world wants. I don't know what Americans they've been asking, but I want to see this one!!

[deram]

Noone can really blame the HBO. reality is that ******/Palle have a product. HBO wants that product and have been screaming for them to make that product.

However, although the HBO clearly wants the fight - there is of course a price above which it will start to hurt. That is always the case. Even if I want a Ferrari - there is a price I can pay for it.

$3 mill seems ok to me. Not like a lot considering how many people could potentially get to to see the fight on HBO. So no 3 mill is not a lot, but on the other hand also not very unreasonable imo.

Let's just hope it is not a make it or break it criteria for the fight to go ahead.

Kessler should want the fight and Calzaghe's should want it even more because from a carrot point of view he gets a unique chance to become undisputed as the fight ever having had ALL belts and from a stick point of view his carreer will have far too many gaping holes of people he didn't fight if it doesn't come off - so both should be motivated to make it.

[Lampley]

I think this situation also serves as a lesson on what happens when you hole yourself up in your home country, essentially telling HBO -- and American fans -- to go fuck themselves.

Because at some point you're going to need them to make a mega-fight, and surprise, surprise, the interest -- and money -- isn't there.

I still think the fight will get made, but ******, in particular, has made a career out of provincialism, and this is the downside of that. HBO loves the fight for its dedicated fans, but there's no sizzle to sell to casual fans, because no one knows who the fuck these guys are.

Let's just hope everyone recalibrates their expectations to a reasonable level and it still happens. If a couple million dollars total destroys the fight, both sides will look very bad.

[teetop]

Enzo Mac - that'll be around the $1mil total pot
Amir Khan - probably around 500k total pot
Maybe a Mads Larsen fight, 250-500k total pot

****** tends to put on a good undercard

Shiiiittt. Enzo aint getting 1 mil for him or his opponent to split.
****** was only offering haye 150k for a fight with macca.
And i know khan is moving at advanced stages, but half a mil.
No way.
Damn blocky. Maybe you should take over for ******, as your much more generous. But these figures ain't happenin'

[BennitheHill]

Noone can really blame the HBO. reality is that ******/Palle have a product. HBO wants that product and have been screaming for them to make that product.

However, although the HBO clearly wants the fight - there is of course a price above which it will start to hurt. That is always the case. Even if I want a Ferrari - there is a price I can pay for it.

$3 mill seems ok to me. Not like a lot considering how many people could potentially get to to see the fight on HBO. So no 3 mill is not a lot, but on the other hand also not very unreasonable imo.

Let's just hope it is not a make it or break it criteria for the fight to go ahead.

Kessler should want the fight and Calzaghe's should want it even more because from a carrot point of view he gets a unique chance to become undisputed as the fight ever having had ALL belts and from a stick point of view his carreer will have far too many gaping holes of people he didn't fight if it doesn't come off - so both should be motivated to make it.


I don't always agree with what you write, but this is a good post imo.

Cheers

[van the man]

****** isn't the guy who made the $5.5 million dollar offer to Calzaghe that he can't back up, Palle is.

no, ******s offer were "only" 5 mill and later turned into 3 mill!
they are pretty even when it come to whos to blame for this shit,
i know u are wery narrow minded when it comes to kessler and jc dear blocky. but u really have to stick to the facts, ok buddy?

[pipe wrenched]

I just don't fuckin get it. 2 million or so dollars could stop the biggest fuckin fight this year (or few years surounding), but somehow Ricky Hatton is able to offer 10 mil to PBF to come to UK. What am I missing here?

[Faetter_BR]

What have I been saying all along.....??

Kessler and Palle have over-estimated the value of this fight. They've made a fixed deal to Calzaghe and ******, who after doing the math realised that the deal was too good to be true and took it.

Now Palle is held over a bucket, trying to find the money he's going to require to get Calzaghe's expenses paid, let alone his own - so now, instead of Copenhagen, he's succombed and said "Why not England" and as for wanting $5 mil from HBO? That's more to pay Calzaghes salary than anything else

At max, the entire card makes $12 mil in revenue in my view. Take away $1.5million for promotion, $1 million for production, $2 million for undercard, $500k for venue hire - you're left with $7 million - Calzaghe takes $5.5 of that - leaving Kessler with what, 1.5 million?

This is irony at it's best

Glad to see you've reduced the undercard exspenses - they are still to high though - If it's in Denmark the undercard will cost ½M max!

Productionscost are also way way to high - at several shows in Denmark the productioncost has been 0. The way that have been done has been letting a major TV-company make the production in exchange for the rights to show the fight the day after - or just clips from it.

Promotion - 1,5M - seems way too high too

Venue-rent - if it's in Denmark it will be in Parken - and Parken entertainment will be co-producing the event - like Kessler-Andrade.

The estimates I've seen for this event speaks of 15-18M $

As for Palle's offer - it still stands - November in Denmark Calzaghe gets 5,5M. And if ****** choses to match this offer, then Kessler will come to England.

The HBO-problems aren't Palle's problems - that's ****** trying to get the fight to England in sept. As for as I can see it makes good sence - the fight will make around 2-3M more in England and all extra earnings will go to ******/Calzaghe.

[Faetter_BR]

You're missing the fact that Kessler isn't as big a fight as everyone makes out for Calzaghe.

Luckyly ****** and Calzaghe has also missed that fact and is calling this fight Calzaghe's biggest fight ever...

But don't let "facts" get in your way

[Faetter_BR]

If ****** is offering Haye (a big threat to Mac and someone he doesn't have to fight) 150k - then why don't you believe a Mac fight is getting a $1 million pot to split? Clinton Woods is making $1 million himself, let alone split

Amir, 500k buys the fight - he's a seller due to his olympic success and ****** knows that he's got a big future on his hands - if he doesn't offer money to Khan, even this early - he'll run the risk of losing him to another promoter.

The reason ****** lumps all these guys in together is so he can pay them all well so they don't do a Hatton and go elsewhere

And that's the reason why the undercard will not cost more than ½M - there is no need for Kahn or Mac to sell this card - Only thing needed is the main event. A good undercard is only needed when the main event sucks - say Calzaghe-Manfredo!

[Faetter_BR]

****** isn't the guy who made the $5.5 million dollar offer to Calzaghe that he can't back up, Palle is.

Palle's offer still stands - 5,5M in november in Copenhagen. He hasn't backed down!

And even if he should do so, then Palm (not Palle) has offered to back the offer up - so if Calzaghe wants the 5,5M he can just accept and start training...

[satyriion]

From what i read in the danish papers over the past days, it sems the ball is in ******s hands. Palle says that ****** has some legal matters to attend to this week, and that he still expects they fight to be a reality.

My position on this fight has always been, that Palle and ****** has been coorporating much closer, and for much, much longer time than it would appear to the public. Andrade, Manfredo was not coincidental.

Blocky's PR estimates would be about right or to low, if palle,****** had had to pay for the amount of free hype up until now. Palle has been in this hustling business for fucking 50 years. ****** are pretty clever too. This boy wants girl. Girl is shy but has a change of mind after holding the audience in emotional suspense for just a bit longer than they can stand. But boy gets girl in the end. everybody is happy. They are doing a prolonged "coitus interruptus" on us, and very well indeed.

They are working very close on this one. They are collegues. They are allies and they know they have to cooperate closely on this one. As they have done very well so far.

This is the pinnacle of their carreers. I am convinced that they are milking everything they can think of. This a big fight and with their combined skills they are going to hit the motherload. Seems they have agreed to partners on this one. 5,5 is a possible amount but propably less than 50% if they are smart. Nobody cares for homeadvantage this time. This is different. Everybody has enough to retire in comfort afterwards. Everybody will be happy winn or lose.

Calzaghe says max 3 more fights, Kessler has a bad back. Palle is old and sick, ****** has joe for 2 or 3 figts more. Nobody cares too much about the outcome of the fight compared to the income in their pockets.

My personal guess is a repeat of the Beyer fight. This is the only logical outcome. Joe may struggle harder and better, but he will lose, save the lucky punch. Palle will be gone Joe will be gone and ****** and mikkel will be left on the scene. Mikkel is a very likeable guy halfbrit he says. I bet ****** could sell him in the UK if he beats joe the right way. Denmark is not really the place to be for Mikkel anymore. He even lives in Germany. Says he gets distracted by the noise and interst in him. If he can't go to the US because of China promoted euro ignorance where should he go then if he wants the big money. With no palle in dk. what should mikkel then do, where should he go ?

[DonPrestige]

Why cant ****** for once just get a deal done and forget about squeezing every last penny out of his cash cows. Unfortunately, we have years more of this nonsense to come with Amir Kahn.

[ThePlugInBabies]

My personal guess is a repeat of the Beyer fight. This is the only logical outcome. Joe may struggle harder and better, but he will lose, save the lucky punch.

oh get off kesslers dick for crying out loud, calzaghe isn't some c grade club fighter, this is not going to be an easy fight for either guy, and if kessler has more fans like you then you're all in for a huge shock.

[deram]

On what planet would there be a repeat of this?

Please explain how you actually think this. And if you mention Kessler's jab I will laugh you off this forum.

Satyrrion is Danish (like me), but I think he is letting his heart do the writing here. I see the bookies have Calzaghe as a solid favorite now and imo. that is fair. Both are almost in a class of their own, but Joe has an edge in terms of experience. The new smart Joe of the last 3 years or so is a formidable opponent and we must not forget that Joe has not always fought smart. He has always been a great talent, but recently he has been fighting smart too and that has heightened his level to a point where he can seek bigger fights and does not have to worry about going life a death with a Reid-level fighter. Joe as of today would beat Joe as of 5 years ago (also Joe's own words) and he of course is no Beyer.

[Faetter_BR]

Neither of them will go hell for leather. This isn't Hagler/Hearns - although I'd love that.

Kessler has a good jab - not the best in the world. Beyer was a tactically astute but very limited fighter -JC is nothing like him. he has a better defence, is faster than Beyer (and Kessler for that matter), is very awkward to fight (unusual angles with fast combinations and great footwork) and has the skills to disable Kessler's jab. Kessler will need another gameplan to win.

That's what's interesting about this match-up. how will Kessler respond to a fighter that has much more experience than him? Who fights in a style he can't prepare for easily? Who is better at going inside and skilled enough to get there and do damage?

Kessler has a good chance, but I still see JC winning. Like I said, the jab argument doesn't wash. JCs a southpaw, which means Kessler's jab is hitting against JCs high right, ready for his jab. So it's blocked automatically.

In fact, considering Kessler's average movement, JC can circle away from his right, negating him throwing 1-2s, and throw straight lefts down the middle, bringing in right hooks to the body.

And his speed means he's rattling these off constantly, and with his fitness levels, consistently.

I agree a lot of questions are going to be answered - and I'm convinced the answers aren't going to go Calzaghe's way - but well we'll see.

However I don't think the question is what Kessler will do when Calzaghe takes out his jab - I think the question is very much - can Calzaghe do that well enough. Veit did connect time and again and everything Veit does Kessler does faster, more precis and more often - in term of jab. It is correct that a southpaw isn't a good jabbers favourite, but it's not like it can't be done. Kessler has sparred a lot with southpaws (mainly Larsen) and Beyer is also a southpaw and Kessler had no problems getting to him (I know he is no where near Calzaghe in class - just to show that southpaw-stance doesn't neutralise a good jab)

As for Kessler's footwork - it is above average by far - take a look at Kessler-Andrade - there Kessler had to use good footwork and did so. Most fights he doesn't have to do that - and doesn't.

As for Kessler's jab - it is the best jab in the world in the weightclasses from 160 and up. So it's not "just" a jab - it's the best.

Another question I look forward to getting answered is Kessler's inside abilities - from what I've seen in sparring he does it very well - I'd love to see that live :)

We know what Calzaghe can do - and he does it so well. In regards for Kessler there are lots of questions still - how good is he? - good enough to beat Calzaghe? - hopefully time will tell :good

[deram]

Kessler does it well in sparring....

Kessler also does everything well in fights..

However, he has never sparred nor fought anyone like Calzaghe.

[David UK]

Maybe they'll both have to settle for less money than originally expected. I still want to see this fight, but I can see why the American mainstream/casual boxing fan isn't over enthusastic.

[satyriion]

On what planet would there be a repeat of this?

Please explain how you actually think this. And if you mention Kessler's jab I will laugh you off this forum.


Laugh all you can, while you have time......Kessler will beat Calzaghe, no problems. Ask the bookies.

[satyriion]

oh get off kesslers dick for crying out loud, calzaghe isn't some c grade club fighter, this is not going to be an easy fight for either guy, and if kessler has more fans like you then you're all in for a huge shock.er,


Ok, What i am saying is the end result will the same as kessler-beyer howr the fight might be closer but the outcome is obvious.

[satyriion]

Satyrrion is Danish (like me), but I think he is letting his heart do the writing here. I see the bookies have Calzaghe as a solid favorite now and imo. that is fair. Both are almost in a class of their own, but Joe has an edge in terms of experience. The new smart Joe of the last 3 years or so is a formidable opponent and we must not forget that Joe has not always fought smart. He has always been a great talent, but recently he has been fighting smart too and that has heightened his level to a point where he can seek bigger fights and does not have to worry about going life a death with a Reid-level fighter. Joe as of today would beat Joe as of 5 years ago (also Joe's own words) and he of course is no Beyer.



Right, so the very clever and smart "NEW" joe is a freak of nature making him better at 35 than 30. His reflexes is slower, which is a medical fact, his hands are fragile his ko power is either gone or not used cause of handfragilty.

He did not impress me one bit against Bika, on the contrary, Reid is a long time gone, Bika is mediocre and not toptier. (Man)fredo was a nonevent and the only fight worth mentioning lately is Lacy. The Lacy I saw was a nobody, and it wasent just because joe was perfect.

Lot of joe fans makes comparison to kessler/lacy which is inconsequential.

Kessler is not a moodfighter like joe. He is in his prime AND he has met whoever was in his way and beat them VERY convincingly. He is bigger and harder punching and he can take a whack.

Kessler today is a lot more mature and focused than ever. He has been champ for a couple of years, enabling him to hire the best supportstaff and train more efficiently than ever. He has the dole for the perfect prefight infrastructure and training.

Age is an important factor in this fight as is wear and tear mentally and physically. Joe has fragile hands and he knows that, accordingly he has, or involuontarily will try to protect them from injury or have them broken.

But the good thing is that we will get an answer to these questions within the coming 6 months. If Joe really do win, fair and square, then all praise and kowtowing shall come to him. I dont have anything against him and actually like the guy enough, that I would be his nuthugger afterwards.

I just cant see him beat Mikkel. He is too strong, young, motivated and skilled.

[satyriion]

Oh by the way, how come you refer to joe's experience as being superior. He hass 3 more fights than mikkel. But he has spend a lot more years getting them.

[sean]

Right, so the very clever and smart "NEW" joe is a freak of nature making him better at 35 than 30. His reflexes is slower, which is a medical fact, his hands are fragile his ko power is either gone or not used cause of handfragilty.

He did not impress me one bit against Bika, on the contrary, Reid is a long time gone, Bika is mediocre and not toptier. (Man)fredo was a nonevent and the only fight worth mentioning lately is Lacy. The Lacy I saw was a nobody, and it wasent just because joe was perfect.

Lot of joe fans makes comparison to kessler/lacy which is inconsequential.

Kessler is not a moodfighter like joe. He is in his prime AND he has met whoever was in his way and beat them VERY convincingly. He is bigger and harder punching and he can take a whack.

Kessler today is a lot more mature and focused than ever. He has been champ for a couple of years, enabling him to hire the best supportstaff and train more efficiently than ever. He has the dole for the perfect prefight infrastructure and training.

Age is an important factor in this fight as is wear and tear mentally and physically. Joe has fragile hands and he knows that, accordingly he has, or involuontarily will try to protect them from injury or have them broken.

But the good thing is that we will get an answer to these questions within the coming 6 months. If Joe really do win, fair and square, then all praise and kowtowing shall come to him. I dont have anything against him and actually like the guy enough, that I would be his nuthugger afterwards.

I just cant see him beat Mikkel. He is too strong, young, motivated and skilled.

biggest thing deciding this fight IMO is who gets home advantage.

not sure why you say mikkel is to strong.

in which fight has mikkel ever won by using physical strength.
kessler likes to fight from range not in close pushing opponents around and off with his elbows or backing them up so he can get combo`s off on the inisde.

young, no denying it kessler is younger than calzaghe

motivated, ?calzaghe will be just as up for this fight .

skilled, what you see is what you like, imo calzaghe throws more combos from the inside and out, uses his fet can box on the outside and can box on the inside/uses angles upercuts/left hooks/right hooks/straight lefts/right leads/

technically kessler`s punches are much more correct and better delivered , but he has no where near the variety.

power, i think is a moot point.

kessler in his last fights has only put 2 opponents on the deck green , who took a 4 second delay before looking for a soft spot to land and beyer , nice shot but could have gotten back up.

if there was someone else kessler has put on the floor i missed it.

porras/thysee/lucas/siacca/theobola/mundine/andrade/

calzaghe scored about 7 knockdowns in a similar amount of fights, although the lacy knockdown was not legit.

even if kessler does knockdown joe during the fight IMO it would not lead to a stoppage, calzghe has shown his recuperative powers are instant.

they are about the same height/same speed with the jab/kesslr is more muscular, but all calzaghe`s opponents are.

i think the fight is close wheter in denamrk or uk , and like i said the home fighter with the crowd behind will sway the judges to the descion.

obvioulsy from my view i want calzaghe to win, but i see flaws in kessler`s style that calzaghe will take advantage and calzaghe is made to measure quite a few times in this fight more to the kessler right hand than the jab, as i see it.

calzaghe has a tendency to miss the left lead and fall across his opponent with his chin unguarded , but i think he will absorb the kessler shots when tagged.

[deram]

Oh by the way, how come you refer to joe's experience as being superior. He hass 3 more fights than mikkel. But he has spend a lot more years getting them.

Because he has been in more big fights (albeit less than he should/could have) which is the kind of experience that is relevant here.

I do think Kessler is good. Of course I do. But I did something that you may want to do... look at Calzaghe-Lacy and then with no break look at Kessler-Beyer.

There is a HUGE difference in pace and movement. Kessler moves like he weighs 300 pounds in that fight.

I am not writing Kessler off, but try to see those two right after eachother...ooch

[China_hand_Joe]

Because he has been in more big fights (albeit less than he should/could have) which is the kind of experience that is relevant here.

I do think Kessler is good. Of course I do. But I did something that you may want to do... look at Calzaghe-Lacy and then with no break look at Kessler-Beyer.

There is a HUGE difference in pace and movement. Kessler moves like he weighs 300 pounds in that fight.

I am not writing Kessler off, but try to see those two right after eachother...oochI don't think we Kessler fans really need to worry about Joe performing that level again. But even against Manfredo Calzaghe's hands were a blur, though the movement wasn't quite so seamless as the Calzaghe fans are used to.

[Jens S]

I predict an fairly easy win for Kessler.

The footmovement of Kessler is excellent. We saw that against Andrade. Against Beyer, he didn't have to move. Beyer had nothing that could hurt Kessler, so why run. Every time Beyer came forward, he got tagged. Yes, Calzaghe can dance around Kessler, but then he can't land anything. Calzaghe can't win this fight from a distance. Kesslers jab is to good and to fast. Calzaghe must get inside, and on the way in he will get tagged and Kessler will move away.

Calzaghe has better power than Kessler. No doubt about that, but it won't be the deciding factor. Kessler has enough power, and Calzaghe won't be able to land many combinations.

About experience there isn't really a difference. Calzaghe always avoided top fighters. He has only fought 2-3 top5 fighter, which is the same as Kessler. Kessler just did it recently. Experience against lower level fighters, which Calzaghe has plenty of, is worth nothing. Fighting bums won't make you ready for an elite fighter.

It will be something like 117-111 for Kessler.

The bookies have it around 58-42 for Calzaghe. There is good money to be won on Kessler.

The fight can easily generate more than 12 mill. $. If they decide for an arena bigger than the O2, they can generate a live gate way bigger than 5 mill. $. If they could sell 30.000 tickets for Manfredo, they can at least sell the same for Calzaghe. The live gate could go as high as 8-10 mill. $ (40.000 x 200-250 $ average). HBO may not want to pay 5 mill. as ****** is demanding, but something not much lower. PPV in Denmark alone will probably give at least 1-2 mill. $ (10-20.000 sales x 100$). TV in the UK will also pay a lot! Then the fight will be sold in 20-30-40 countries all over the world. So 15 mill. $ is absolutely within reach, probably more.

Jens

[ThePlugInBabies]

I predict an fairly easy win for Kessler.



:patsch this will not be an easy fight for either! my word you're in for a shock if this goes ahead.


Calzaghe has better power than Kessler. No doubt about that, but it won't be the deciding factor. Kessler has enough power, and Calzaghe won't be able to land many combinations.

:rofl :rofl :rofl calzaghe has more power than kessler??!!

[van the man]

I predict an fairly easy win for Kessler.

Calzaghe has better power than Kessler. No doubt about that, but it won't be the deciding factor. Kessler has enough power, and Calzaghe won't be able to land many combinations.

Jens

kessler got the power and jc got the speed! non of them will be able to land many combos. this could go either way! hopefully it will be kessler winnin:happy

[Jens S]

If you look at Kesslers knockout, then most of them come by outboxing his opponent. At junior middle he had great power, but now he only has good power. The knockouts come late in his fights, and several times the ref has stopped the fight where the opponents hasn't been floored.

When Calzaghe fought Lacy I predicted an easy win for Calzaghe. I couldn't see Lacy in Calzaghes league.

Calzaghe has a lot of the tools to beat Kessler, but I don't see him do it. Kessler proved against Andrade that he can handle a very aggressive fighter for 12 rounds without losing a round. Calzaghe is a way better boxer than Andrade (and he should at this time be considered the best at super middle ever), but those boxing skills he won't be able to use against Kessler as he can against other fighters. Calzaghe has a lot of different tactics, but fighting at a distance against Kessler is like fighting against the Klitschko at a distance: it won't work. Calzaghe needs to get closer. He has a lot of agility and good footwork, but Kessler moves just as well. Kessler will frustrate Calzaghe, but also take more shots than usual. But in the end
Kessler will win fairly easy.

Jens

[ThePlugInBabies]

If you look at Kesslers knockout, then most of them come by outboxing his opponent. At junior middle he had great power, but now he only has good power. The knockouts come late in his fights, and several times the ref has stopped the fight where the opponents hasn't been floored.

When Calzaghe fought Lacy I predicted an easy win for Calzaghe. I couldn't see Lacy in Calzaghes league.

Calzaghe has a lot of the tools to beat Kessler, but I don't see him do it. Kessler proved against Andrade that he can handle a very aggressive fighter for 12 rounds without losing a round. Calzaghe is a way better boxer than Andrade (and he should at this time be considered the best at super middle ever), but those boxing skills he won't be able to use against Kessler as he can against other fighters. Calzaghe has a lot of different tactics, but fighting at a distance against Kessler is like fighting against the Klitschko at a distance: it won't work. Calzaghe needs to get closer. He has a lot of agility and good footwork, but Kessler moves just as well. Kessler will frustrate Calzaghe, but also take more shots than usual. But in the end
Kessler will win fairly easy.

Jens

an aggressive fighter? andrade spent most of the fight just clinging on, he was a punch bag for 12 rounds despite the heart and balls he showed.

[Jens S]

Andrade went forward the whole fight throwing more than 900 punches. Kesslers skills was just superior, and he showed he could handle it.

Jens

[satyriion]

Kessler went for the ko against beyer, thats pretty clear, thats why he looked heavy. Against Andrade he was much lighter on his feets, i.e. he adjust to the opponent very well.

His critics says he can't fight on the inside. Bika diagrees a lot and so do others.

Kessler likes southpaws, and Mads Larsen was probably a good teacher because his foot was on the outside all the time, Beyer may have been shot and overrated, but he has loads of experience and kind of a ringføx. He was completely dismantled. The other guys except Andrade retired before time due to the relentless and onesided beating they got. Mikkel may not have the perfect 1punkc ko, but he hits hard and very well timed.

Mikkel is extremely cool in the ring, and I dont think homeadvantage (except the judges) is a factor in this fight. This aint a shitty smalltimeevent, this is probably the pinnacle of both boxers carreers and they are good and ready.

Calzaghe has never been a great champ because he blasted all the competition away all his carreer, but because he kept winning for ten years, BUT not against topcontenders very often. He has faced a lot of pressure in his fights, but won non the less. Mikkel has not had any qualified opposition yet. Meaning the extreme low number of rounds he has given away.

I remember, without comparison, the way people talked of Tyson as a fake built up guy with no names on his record before he was champ. He wasen't tested because was too good, until he ko'ed himself. My point is, that it is obvious that mikkel is very good at what he does. He takes his business deadserious and he has the tools. He can fight on the inside, but it aint necceasary. He can do a lot more than he has shown so far. He plays it safe and do not get emotional and loose control over the fight.

Kessler will walk through calzaghe, he may loose more rounds than his previous career combined.. I don't think the geriathric calzaghe will be mikkels nemisis.

Not for one second. I dont think this will be as close a fight as a lot of people think. If the Lacy comparison should be used in this fight, Calzaghe is the one being called lacy.

[Tobang07]

The reason production and promotion costs will be so high is because they're trying to take two fighters that aren't really well known outside of the mainstream and turn them into a monster fight.

That takes big money to advertise the fight and more money for production to ensure good vignettes and such are shown before the fight.

The reason the undercard WILL be strong is because ****** has fighters to feed, he can put Amir Khan and Enzo Mac in behind a Calzaghe contest, give the fans a good fight, get more money from TV (especially British TV) for doing so, it makes sense for him to do it

You keep forgetting, we're talking Kessler who has (disputedly) only ever earnt just over $1 million USD in a fight and Calzaghe who the highest estimates so far has been $3 million for his Manfredo fight.

Now we're talking 5.5 million for Calzaghe alone?

You think they're going to do that without huge promotion and production? They're still not going to breach 15 mil total revenue for this fight because outside of hardcore boxing fans, no one gives a shit..

So money will be spent on the undercard.. as for Palle, sorry - latest media shows that he asked ****** to host the fight in the UK as he couldn't get the money to back up the 5.5 million.

Calzaghe and ****** accepted that bid, why is it now that Palle is keen to let them try and make a fight in UK?

As for the fight itself, fuck off with this Kessler shit - when he gets dominated, just remember who predicted it first, loudly, proudly and with the very esence of "Kessler's jab is all he has and it won't work in the fight"


LOL...ONCE AGAIN you take some of the available info and twist and turn it, ad a bit of lies and present it as the allmighty thruth, a thruth that only you can figure out.

Well, you know what Blocky, the thruth is that you are becoming more and more sad and disturbing to watch.

You have made soooo many wrong analysis on this subject that turns out to be directly false, you even lie to deliver your statements and the worst part is, that when ever people correct you or counter your arguments, you just dont address the subject for a few hours or days. Pathetic and sad.

Just like when you try to blame the current problems with HBO on MP, when he has absolutely nothing to do with HBO, thats ******. WHY THE LIES, BLOCKY? Is is because you dont have anything important or valuebable to add or because your self-proclaimed title as "Holder Of True Boxing Knowledge" is so obviously laughable an ridiculous.

[deram]

Ok, here comes the clue train, next stop: YOU!!!

1) Beyer is not a heavy puncher. He's an ok fighter who was hardly at his best against Kessler. Kessler was being deliberate because he could AFFORD TO BE. Beyer didn't have the speed or reach to get in and out before Kessler could react.

2) Andrade was horrendously limited - it wasn't Kessler's excellent defense and footwork that kept him safe, it was Andrade's incompetence as a fighter.

3) He will "walk through" Joe? Noone has managed to even take Joe close. Byron Mitchell wobbled him and Joe battered him senseless. The guy was out on his feet and it was sheer resilience keeping him up. kessler hasn't been tested because he's never been in with anyone capable. At least Joe's faced some big, skilled hitters.

4)How is Calzaghe a Lacy comparison? Are you meaning style-wise? Hype-wise?

because in either there is no basis for the argument. JC is a boxer-puncher: hits hard, moves well, fluid combinations.

Lacy: Hits hard, has good rhythm.

Hype-wise: JC is a 10 year champion with incredible skills.

Lacy: was neither of those.

You are letting your blind adoration of Kessler cloud your opinion on Joe. This will be close and, if it's not, it'll be JC administering the beating.

I shouldn't..... but I agree with much of this - not all. :think

[boxfan99]

didnt matter whether beyer wasnt at his best or not, he would still get beat, beyer has good speed, but size and reach disadvantage, thereby kessler, could afford to wait, until the moment was right..



why dont get on your own so called clue train, andrade is raw ill give you that, but it was mikkel who made him look THAT bad.. he threw over 900 punches, add to that, he has a massive reach and is tall as hell, but couldnt connect, because mikkel moved almost perfect..

the one thing i would agree with, that is, it will be close, so close it could end up being homefield advantage that decides the outcome

Or perhaps a fat homer ref named Terry O'Connor.:yep

[Jens S]

"Noone has managed to even take Joe close"??? Did you ever see his fight against Reid? That one was close.

Calzaghe has fed on nobodies, and that is why he almost never are in a close fight.

It doesn't matter whether or not Calzaghe has fought any big hitters. This fight will be decided on boxing skills, not power.

Jens

[Jens S]

The reason I mention Calzaghe-Lacy is that it was the same. If you didn't predict a close fight people came out shouting ignorance. Well, I look at the fighters capabilities, and I just see that Kesslers style will be to much for Calzaghe. It is true that Kessler never fought anyone as good as Calzaghe, but Calzaghe never fought anyone like Kessler. Kessler has fought many fighters, that has tried to avoid his jab and right hand afterwards (defintaely not as skilled as Calzaghe). Only fighter with that kind of style as Kessler is Veit, who was nowhere as skilled as Kessler. The kind of "fight in the fight" we will see is Kesslers hometurf. He has the experience in keeping a fighter at a distance, where as Calzaghe has a very limited experience trying to get in close with a fighter, who controls it from a distance. The one who can turn the fight over to his terms will win. If Calzaghe really can get past that jab of Kessler, I don't really expect a close fight the other way. Then Calzaghe will control the fight. It will be rough, as it always is inside, but then Calzaghe could get a big win on the scorecards. I just believe Kessler will dominate with his jab and right cross. Kessler also has some awesome combos in the midrange. Therefore a big win for Kessler. In my book it is 65-35 Kessler.

Jens

[deram]

The reason I mention Calzaghe-Lacy is that it was the same. If you didn't predict a close fight people came out shouting ignorance. Well, I look at the fighters capabilities, and I just see that Kesslers style will be to much for Calzaghe. It is true that Kessler never fought anyone as good as Calzaghe, but Calzaghe never fought anyone like Kessler. Kessler has fought many fighters, that has tried to avoid his jab and right hand afterwards (defintaely not as skilled as Calzaghe). Only fighter with that kind of style as Kessler is Veit, who was nowhere as skilled as Kessler. The kind of "fight in the fight" we will see is Kesslers hometurf. He has the experience in keeping a fighter at a distance, where as Calzaghe has a very limited experience trying to get in close with a fighter, who controls it from a distance. The one who can turn the fight over to his terms will win. If Calzaghe really can get past that jab of Kessler, I don't really expect a close fight the other way. Then Calzaghe will control the fight. It will be rough, as it always is inside, but then Calzaghe could get a big win on the scorecards. I just believe Kessler will dominate with his jab and right cross. Kessler also has some awesome combos in the midrange. Therefore a big win for Kessler. In my book it is 65-35 Kessler.

Jens

Sorry, Jens, I often agree with you, but not here.

You say Calzaghe definitely has more power than Kessler. I disagree.
You say Calzaghe has more skill than Kessler. I disagree, Kessler is the more "skilled" fighter in a classical sense. Calzaghe has more intangibles though. Calzaghe actually is not very skilled in a classical sense. His punches are awkward and not performed well (hence the hand injuries) etc.
You say Kessler is faster on his feet. I think Calzaghe is faster on his feet. All in all I think Kessler is more skilled and boxes far more correctly than Calzaghe. On the other hand Calzaghe has more intangibles. Calzaghe is imo. faster on feet and hand and has the best variation of power in modern boxing. He does not throw correctly etc, but he varies his punches excellently.

Overall, it is a close fight in my book - where Kessler can win, but he will have to be 200% or he will soon feel heavy and slow when Joe starts to skip around and throw punches from everywhere. Kessler could win, because we have never really seen his limits, but I really cannot see how anyone can argue it will be an easy win for Kessler. Neither will win easy, and if anyone does I believe it is more likely to be Joe. But I don't think it will happen. It will be a close fight imo.

[THN]

This will be a very close fight, i'll go for the power of Kessler, but shit i dont now, i cant wait!

[Jens S]

"defintaely not as skilled as Calzaghe" is about the fighters Kessler has fought, not a comparison between Kessler and Calzaghe.

Power? Kessler rarely floors people, he outboxes them. The stoppage of sevaral of Kesslers opponents were very questionable. Zdiarski was directly ludicrous. The guy was never down, he wasn't hurt at the time of stoppage and fought back. But with less than half a minute of the fight left, it was stopped.

Kessler fought the same number of top 5 fighters as Calzaghe, but he has fought a lot of easy fights. Calzaghe has about the same ko-percentage, but he has scored the ko's against better opposition. Calzaghe has fought many top20-25 fighters. Like 15-20. Kessler has fought 5-6.

Jens

[deram]

"defintaely not as skilled as Calzaghe" is about the fighters Kessler has fought, not a comparison between Kessler and Calzaghe.

Power? Kessler rarely floors people, he outboxes them. The stoppage of sevaral of Kesslers opponents were very questionable. Zdiarski was directly ludicrous. The guy was never down, he wasn't hurt at the time of stoppage and fought back. But with less than half a minute of the fight left, it was stopped.

Kessler fought the same number of top 5 fighters as Calzaghe, but he has fought a lot of easy fights. Calzaghe has about the same ko-percentage, but he has scored the ko's against better opposition. Calzaghe has fought many top20-25 fighters. Like 15-20. Kessler has fought 5-6.

Jens

Ahh, you were noit talking about Calzaghe, but about his opponents. Then it shoiuld have been "Calzaghe's", instead of Calzaghe. :good

[deram]

And remember that Calzaghe's KO percentage is far lower than Kessler's as Calzaghe tends to TKO his opponents instead of KOing them. However, I do agree that it is not going to be so much power vs speed as people think.

[RightCross]

It is absolutely absurd that today with the Euro being so strong that you faggot brits and danes cannot make a fight without American TV.

Do I want to see the fight? Of course!

Can't your piddly ass countries do without HBO and make this fight happen without having Big Daddy USA spoon feed you money on fighters with marginal to no widespread american appeal?

I think it is just pathetic and I would be ashamed to live in a country with proud histories that have to get on their knees to suck HBO's Dick so they can pay their fighters.

[boxfan99]

It is absolutely absurd that today with the Euro being so strong that you faggot brits and danes cannot make a fight without American TV.

Do I want to see the fight? Of course!

Can't your piddly ass countries do without HBO and make this fight happen without having Big Daddy USA spoon feed you money on fighters with marginal to no widespread american appeal?

I think it is just pathetic and I would be ashamed to live in a country with proud histories that have to get on their knees to suck HBO's Dick so they can pay their fighters.

You do know that ****** and Palle represent themselves and not the entire UK and Denmark, right.:patsch If anybody is going to suck HBO's dick it is not UK or Denmark but ******/Palle, and how do you exactly suck HBO's dick for that matter? Do HBO even have a dick?:huh

Why do I even bother? You have just called the Brits and Danes faggots.:roll:

[RightCross]

You do know that ****** and Palle represent themselves and not the entire UK and Denmark, right.:patsch If anybody is going to suck HBO's dick it is not UK or Denmark but ******/Palle, and how do you exactly suck HBO's dick for that matter? Do HBO even have a dick?:huh

Why do I even bother? You have just called the Brits and Danes faggots.:roll:

I am speaking figuratively try and keep up, I know it must be difficult for you. Palle and ****** represent their fighters and to a smaller extent the countries of the fighters they promote.

Denmark, as represented by all the danes on this thread, look at Kessler as almost a national hero and they let HBO, american TV, dictate fight terms? I think that it is pathetic!

Can't ****** make this fight someow on sky TV or some closed ppv Euro channel? FFS go to germany at least they can make a fight. If I was these two guys I'd say fuck the USA and make the fight some other way........BUT NOOOoOOOO let's call the fight off because USA's HBO has another fight close to the date.

Seriously grow a f'ing pair it is embaressing.

[deram]

I am speaking figuratively try and keep up, I know it must be difficult for you. Palle and ****** represent their fighters and to a smaller extent the countries of the fighters they promote.

Denmark, as represented by all the danes on this thread, look at Kessler as almost a national hero and they let HBO, american TV, dictate fight terms? I think that it is pathetic!

Can't ****** make this fight someow on sky TV or some closed ppv Euro channel? FFS go to germany at least they can make a fight. If I was these two guys I'd say fuck the USA and make the fight some other way........BUT NOOOoOOOO let's call the fight off because USA's HBO has another fight close to the date.

Seriously grow a f'ing pair it is embaressing.

Go to a cycling forum and you will see hundreds of Americans overflowing with pride concerning Armstrong. Yet, the "let the French decide where Lance should ride in order to be seen as the world's best? Pathetic!"

Of course not. HBO was very vocal that they wanted this fight and now it is being made they should do their part. Regardless of nationalities.

And even if you want to stick to your story ... you can actually leave Palle and Denmark out of this completely. ****** is the one with a contract with HBO and he is the sole promoter of the fight as it stands now. So Palle is (and he said so) not part of figuring out where the money will come from. If ****** needs HBO to pay the involved parties then that is entirely up to ******.

My oppinion is that since the HBO wants to buy the fight and ****** wants as much money as possible - it would be bad for all parties not to actually sell it to HBO as well.

[deram]

Well, they are both on Secondsout p4p top ten and they certainly both belong there.

Let's just hope and pray it can actually be made.

[ChuckYoungblood]

its quite funny, that those shouting kessler sucks or joe is a fraud , ends up being very dismissive of their own fighters victory.. actually you have to love the irony in it, especially when the same person comes out, and screams great victory...

Exactly! Eventhough I'm Danish, I almost stopped reading these Kessler-Calzaghe threads because of this stupid overconfidence in both camps.

I think a lot of this comes from the time, when the danish side were anxious about the fight being made at all - joe ducking Mikkel and so on. Now that the fight seems to be made, both sides can see that this is the right fight for both fighters, and whoever wins (if its undebatable), will be recognised as the true champ.

Kessler has never fully been tested, and an inspired Calzaghe will definately do that. Eventhough I think Kessler wins UD, I would like to see him perform under pressure.

Of course the winner of this fight should go on to fight the crop of the american fighters - Germaine, Winky or perhaps old man B-hop - and therefore HBO needs to broadcast it to the american public...

[Jens S]

And remember that Calzaghe's KO percentage is far lower than Kessler's as Calzaghe tends to TKO his opponents instead of KOing them. However, I do agree that it is not going to be so much power vs speed as people think.

Clazaghe stopped 32 of 43 opponents which gives him a KO-percentage of 74,4. Kessler stopped 29 of 39 which gives him a KO-percentage of 74,4! They got the same. Math ;)

Both fighters are for real, but Kessler is just more real. The only possible fraud in this mix-up is ****** :D

Jens

[deram]

Clazaghe stopped 32 of 43 opponents which gives him a KO-percentage of 74,4. Kessler stopped 29 of 39 which gives him a KO-percentage of 74,4! They got the same. Math ;)

Both fighters are for real, but Kessler is just more real. The only possible fraud in this mix-up is ****** :D

Jens

LOL... if you read my post again - you will see that I distinguish between TKO and KO - and if you then go to Boxrec you will see that Kessler has a far higher KO percentage than Calzaghe - who tends to "only" T K O his opponents.

Math right back at ya :good

[maracho]

Unfortunately, two of Ring magazine's #3 guys (Lacy & Tarver) would probably make them more money over here and since the European cable market is probably hypo-pacifists, we may not see a Palle/****** closure. These could be made into good biuld-ups though.

[Jens S]

And what is the difference between a KO and a TKO? It differs from country to country and over time. So a distinction is nonsense (unless you really believe that Calzaghe only knocked out two opponents as a pro). For example they have standing counting in Denmark, which means a lot of fights that would have been TKOs in most other countries is a KO as the ref counts to 10 instead of stopping it. Besides that almost all of Kesslers KOs came when he was fighting fighters smaller than super-middle.

Jens

[DanePugilist]

I dont see any hazards for the fight to be made - FW and Palle just made an initial high demand on HBO - if they went for it - great - they didn't.

I am sure the deal will be settled at 3.5-4 mil.

To Blocky - why make an expensive undercard, when no one really cares for those fights(for this bout anyway)? Especially not if they may put the fight in jeopardy(not that I think that for one moment).

However the clock is ticking for the September date.

[pipe wrenched]

And what is the difference between a KO and a TKO? It differs from country to country and over time. So a distinction is nonsense (unless you really believe that Calzaghe only knocked out two opponents as a pro). For example they have standing counting in Denmark, which means a lot of fights that would have been TKOs in most other countries is a KO as the ref counts to 10 instead of stopping it. Besides that almost all of Kesslers KOs came when he was fighting fighters smaller than super-middle.

Jens

One difference I can quickly think of is Calz TKO Manfredo. That surely can't be looked at the same as a guy laying out not making the 10 count.:good

[China_hand_Joe]

One difference I can quickly think of is Calz TKO Manfredo. That surely can't be looked at the same as a guy laying out not making the 10 count.:goodJoe's TKO's brought about by overwhelming his opponent with sheer volume is a more dependable way of stopping an opponent than reliance on landing a big punch.

[deram]

One difference I can quickly think of is Calz TKO Manfredo. That surely can't be looked at the same as a guy laying out not making the 10 count.:good

Of course not, but I know that Jens is not a guy to say "ok, you're right" - there will be explanations for eternity why KO is exactly the same as KO - and the only difference is that in some countries they spell KO with a T. :yep

Seriously though - yes, many of Kessler's KOs came when he was lighter and younger, and yes some of the KO could maybe have been TKOs - but overall two things stand: There is (on average!) a difference between KO and TKO and secondly Joe hardly ever Ko anyone. And believe me it would have been scored a KO if Joe had scored a KO.

If there is a difference it clearly would show Kessler as the one with power, and not as you said that Calzaghe was more powerful. There is no evidence to support that.

But I honestly cannot imagine that you think there is evidence to show Calzaghe has more power - I think what you wanted to say is that Kessler will not win the fight on power like many people seem to believe - and if that is the case then I agree.

[deram]

Joe's TKO's brought about by overwhelming his opponent with sheer volume is a more dependable way of stopping an opponent than reliance on landing a big punch.

That may be true, but it is still a TKO at the end of the day. :good

[KO Boxing]

:dead

Same ole shit after same ole shit.

Any news on whether its actually happening? Why not put it in Ocotober if ya can't get September! Damn this is pissing me off

[deram]

:dead

Same ole shit after same ole shit.

Any news on whether its actually happening? Why not put it in Ocotober if ya can't get September! Damn this is pissing me off

The only reason I can think of would be because they have scheduled September and November as two dates they want their fighters to fight. If CK cannot make the fight in Sept, then they will each fight someone else in Sept and then meet in Nov.

However, if they are just going to pass time playing computer games and going to Thailand on Holiday then I see no reason not to fight in October.

Well, except HBO may have something scheduled already for Oct and Team Palle's birthday is in Nov. :roll:

[DanePugilist]

The only reason I can think of would be because they have scheduled September and November as two dates they want their fighters to fight. If CK cannot make the fight in Sept, then they will each fight someone else in Sept and then meet in Nov.

However, if they are just going to pass time playing computer games and going to Thailand on Holiday then I see no reason not to fight in October.

Well, except HBO may have something scheduled already for Oct and Team Palle's birthday is in Nov. :roll:With all these negociations, I fail to see why HBO haven't played along and given possible dates for broadcasting this - this seems immensely stupid that the promoters have finally settled everything, and now HBO says: "We don't have open space for broadcasting this in sept" or whatever.

[DanePugilist]

You Danish guys are over-inflating the idea of how important this boxing event is. For this event to be the success it's going to have to be in order to get the amounts that Palle promised to Calzaghe, they're going to have to hook in a shitload more casual fans than they're used too.

Casual fans who know of Joe Calzaghe and his reputation of not fighting good AMERICAN fighters... so another Euro fighter isn't going to do much For Joe Casual who has no clue about Kessler

However, you add another title fight in Enzo Mac and you add in Amir Khan, you boost the potential revenue.

Without a decent undercard, revenue will suffer.

Also as previously mentioned which people haven't thought of - Hatton left ****** because he wasn't getting the money he could get elsewhere - believe it or not, Amir Khan is a pretty big name already in the UK.

If ****** doesn't keep him well fed, he'll look elsewhere

Same as Enzo Mac - although he's less likely due to his close allegiance to the Calzaghes.

It comes down to economy, spend money to make money - if the fight card is Calzaghe vs Kessler and nothing else, the revenue will substantially decrease because you'll have less casual interest.

Also, try tell HBO that they're going to have JUST Kessler vs Calzaghe - HBO will probably do what they're doing soonish, have the undercard based in an American venue instead and have name fighters on it.

You can't run a boxing event on the power of Calzaghe and Kessler, it just won't attract the fans they need to attract for the economy they're trying to get.lol, are you saying that Enzo and Amir would make it more of a draw - or even make it more appealing?

The same people that cares about JC are the ones that follows those other two FW fighters. There would hardly be much of an addition.

FW and even JC recognizes this fight as a superfight that will surpass the Manfredo fight in terms of revenue. Do you think that he has calculated the prospect of having enzo and Amir on the undercard into that?

If they were to make the card more interesting, those two FW fighters shouldn't be on it, but should have US fighters to give more appeal to the US audience that cares little of the main event.


No what the prober thing to do would be to advertise this main event all over...

[DanePugilist]

HBO aren't playing ball because of the economy involved - they're not going to pay $5 million for a fight they'll potentially show on a free weekend.

Kessler and Calzaghe aren't stars outside of their own country. Kessler may have patriotic support going for him but the money generated in this fight is going to have to outweight anything either fighter has produced before.

Lets say Kessler is settling for 4 million, which seems likely being he rejected the $3 mil offer - Calzaghe getting 5.5 - that's almost 10 mil they have to generate - when neither fighter has been in a $5 mil fight in the last decade

Even Calzaghe vs Eubank (a much bigger event than this) can't of generated $10 mil.

HBO don't have money in the account to buy this fight for the price ****** and Palle are asking - from what I've heard, ****** is trying his hardest to get this fight to happen because Calzaghe is starting to get pretty fucked off.

****** is bending over backwards to try and make this fight viable, despite Palle making it toughI wasn't talking about the economic side but the date schedule.

WTF - how can you say that JC vs Eubank was a bigger event - wtf was JC back then. A talented prospect. Noone outside GB cared about that event.

How can you say that Palle is making it tough, when you have agreed that Palle made FW an offer he couldnt refuse? If that was the case, then Palle is the gifted moneymaker, and FW is the apprentise - however - we do know that that is not the case.

HBO refused the 5 mil - ok - so what - they just tried to see if they could get that much - now they will try and fish for as much as they can get - afterall they are both businessmen.

[DanePugilist]

I fail to see why you are slandering this fight from day one - and yet this is the topic in which you participates the most?. If you find it so unappealing - don't watch it. Don't participate.

Critique is okay, but what you are and have been doing is just silly.

[Amsterdam]

I fail to see why you are slandering this fight from day one - and yet this is the topic in which you participates the most?. If you find it so unappealing - don't watch it. Don't participate.

Critique is okay, but what you are and have been doing is just silly.

Blocky is all about sillyness.:yep

[DanePugilist]

Amir Khan will bring in more fans, definitely - he's big in England already.

As for HBO, it gives them two world title fights on one card - not as common as it used to be, especially considering they're not just flyweight/lightweight fights.

Mark my words, Amir Khan will definitely be on the undercard and depending how Enzo does with Braithwaite, he could be there too.

Casual fans could give half a shit about Calzaghe or Kessler, that's the issue - so whilst internet fans believe these two HAVE to fight - casual fans would far rather see a Mike Tyson match.

That's the sad fact of boxing and unless HBO go to town on pre-production, add an important under card fight or even a co-feature, there is no way this is making money for Kessler.

I feel sorry for the guy because I just see 5.5 million as being near 70-80% of what this fight will probably generate (maybe more)Well it doesn't hurt to put those in, but given them the amount of money that you have suggested earlier is not worth it.

If the casual fans dont give a shit about the main event they simply won't pay for it. If they are more into Tyson type of fights, then they will pay for something else regardless of Amir or Enzo.

The last statement just makes me laugh, because you are just slinging out random numbers that doesn't even agree with your earlier statements: 15 mil, 13 mil, now 8 mil.

Well if Kessler won't make the money, the fight will be off - and no one would blame him for it.

[DanePugilist]

I'm slandering the fight because I don't see it as important to Calzaghe's career.

Calzaghe has four fights at best, I want to see him in against fighters that have the style to beat him - not guys that are just going to be discredited again, Calzaghe can do a LOT of good for boxing in the UK if he is legitimised by beating an American superstar.

The Kessler fight, stylistically, is going to be so easy for Calzaghe to win.

Why do I participate in this topic? Because I have inside information on the contract negotiation process and what is happening - also because I got sick to shit of seeing idiots from Denmark rate Kessler so god damn highly.
Okay, then its very good we have one such as you to show us how to put everything into the proper perspective. We owe you tons. Thank you.

I am sorry that we are overrating Kessler so much - seemingly it has affected JC as well, as he sees this fight as his toughest fight.

[DanePugilist]

You're not looking at the logical fact, you're thinking as a fan and not a realist.

Eubank - absolute money making star, one of the biggest money makers in the UK - was the star of that fight, Calzaghe probably got shit all to fight Eubank in that match up, Calzaghe wasn't the draw card, Eubank was.

To American, British and indeed worldwide fans - that was a huge fight, simply because Eubank had mainstream appeal.

HBO refused $5 mil and said the dates were wrong because they have to invest an aweful lot into this fight by the looks - with another big fight potentially occuring in the same schedule, it's a hell of a lot of money for HBO to have "in play" - that's the issue here. not the date itself.And JC has that mainstream appeal, and Kessler has so much more than JC had back then. Instead of one draw(Eubank), we have two fighters.

Well if the date hinders the potentiality of money generation, due to the schedule of other fights they should have stated so long ago - there have been given 3 possible dates long ago;July, September and November. I dont think that HBO has been sleeping in the classroom, while negotiations have taken place.

They are just businessmen as well, and if they see the fight is in jeopardy they will agree to what will be a win/win/win situation. I predict they will go for 3.5-4 mil and that would be enough.

[DanePugilist]

Blocky is all about sillyness.:yep:lol: I just think he likes to provoke.

[Amsterdam]

:lol: I just think he likes to provoke.

Yes, and post fake photographs in the meantime.:lol:

[van the man]

Yes, and post fake photographs in the meantime.:lol:

:yep

[DanePugilist]

Yes, and post fake photographs in the meantime.:lol::lol: - though at the time it seemed prober to shut the Dempsey idiot up. A bit of lying for the sake of that is okay in my book.

However to continue to uphold the facade while being exposed seems - well silly.

[Amsterdam]

:lol: - though at the time it seemed prober to shut the Dempsey idiot up. A bit of lying for the sake of that is okay in my book.

However to continue to uphold the facade while being exposed seems - well silly.

Yes, their worship of prehistoric fighters is ridiculous, I mean christ, do they not see the evident advancements in skill level? If you took a time machine and threw Harry Greb in with Kessler flat out, it would end with a Kessler KO 1.

I rate the old timers for historical sake and era/era only and I do know a good bit about them.

Blocky is still a fucking insecure idiot though, his little photo posting event just made it that much more entertaining.:lol:

[DanePugilist]

Yes, their worship of prehistoric fighters is ridiculous, I mean christ, do they not see the evident advancements in skill level? If you took a time machine and threw Harry Greb in with Kessler flat out, it would end with a Kessler KO 1.

I rate the old timers for historical sake and era/era only and I do know a good bit about them.

Blocky is still a fucking insecure idiot though, his little photo posting event just made it that much more entertaining.:lol:I completely agree - I respect the older fighters as they should - just like in any other sport, even if the skill levels of course have increased massively. Just look at football(soccer) from the era of just say recent like Ian Rush(Liverpool) they were great for that time, but when we view it today, it seems like they are walking in comparison, and its in slow motion.

The talent has not increased, just the methods, requirements and competition level.

I dont know if Blocky is insecure - but he does come out biting like Cujo very often.

[Amsterdam]

I completely agree - I respect the older fighters as they should - just like in any other sport, even if the skill levels of course have increased massively. Just look at football(soccer) from the era of just say recent like Ian Rush(Liverpool) they were great for that time, but when we view it today, it seems like they are walking in comparison, and its in slow motion.

The talent has not increased, just the methods, requirements and competition level.

I dont know if Blocky is insecure - but he does come out biting like Cujo very often.

By the way DP, I am providing Margarito with an adequate thrashing(backed up by solid arguments) in the other thread, feel free to join in.:p

[DanePugilist]

By the way DP, I am providing Margarito with an adequate thrashing(backed up by solid arguments) in the other thread, feel free to join in.:pIll be there....

[Faetter_BR]

There is little to none comparison between Calzaghe-Kessler and Calzaghe-Eubanks.

Eubanks-Calzaghe - Eubanks was a fading star, who took the fight with 10 days notice and had to drain himself to make weight. The bookies had Calzaghe as favourite and there was only 10 days for promotion of the fight. Calzaghe wasn't a name yet - only a promising contender.

Calzaghe-Kessler - Both fighters undefeated - both fighters holding belts, which they have defended several times. The promotion has been going on for a long time already.

As for Kahn - he might very well be on the undercard, but he will not be getting anything that even comes close to 500.000 - proberbly around 80-100.000 - tops. And HBO wouldn't be paying a dollar more to have Jahn on the card - and even less so with Mac. If HBO shows Kahn, then Khan's pay may even be lower - it's Kahn that stands to gain by being on a card televised in the US, more than ******. Calzaghe-Kessler is more than enough to sell this fight - Hell Kessler sold 20.000 tickets versus Andrade - Calzaghe-Kessler should sell 40-50.000 easy - Kahn or not.

Oh and a few questions for you Blocky.

1. Which three future champions did Calzaghe beat?

2. Which four opponents would do more for Calzaghe's legacy than Kessler? - oh and sell as much or better than Kessler?

[Amsterdam]

To hell with that "Eubank had to drain himself" argument. The guy was as slim as he'd been in years and yes, he took the fight on ten days notice, but he had been training well prior and had to drain an amazing 7 pounds in 10 days!:patsch

The Eubank win was legitimate, Eubank was past his prime, but Joe was green, so it was a big step up.

[Amsterdam]

I agree with this - if you look at Eubank in that fight and say "He was drained" - you're a fucking retard, Eubank himself said he felt highly prepared and motivated for that fight and in interviews since, said after being hit by Calzaghe, boxing didn't appeal to him as much anymore.

It's fact, Eubank was trimmed down and look refreshed for this fight. His overly muscled stature from his 92-96 years would have served him even less in this affair.

Everytime Eubank is mentioned in Calzaghe's resume, the word "drained" comes along with it, but I never see a mention of "green Calzaghe" once. Boxing fans love to discredit Calzaghe and that's one of the only subjects that you are dead on about when you post on here.

[DanePugilist]

Calzaghe has had a solid career facing good-to-great opponents, he's ruled a division and the only people who have ever head hunted him, Reid, Woodhall, Veit, Lacy and now Kessler - have all had their chance to face him.

The only fight Calzaghe should definitely have had is against Glen Johnson but I think we all know he's winning that fight without issue at any point of his career.

As for Kessler, I still say it's a wasted fight and Kessler was just right person at the right time to take titles from Siaca and Beyer, both of whom were never worthwhile champions in my view

Kessler is now a worthwhile champion but not worthwhile of 50/50 share in a Calzaghe fight.Why would/should he have fought a decent fighter such as Glen Johnson? He ruled a division while it was weak. He was hesitant to face Lacy, and only his father made him do it.

But he was the champ and as such he should take on the biggest threats - wouldnt you agree? And yes Kessler was the right person at the right time to beat anybody in the division that held a belt, and now the time has come for the ring belt owner. He is not hiding behind his newly gained belts. Nor does he fight lesser fighters save maybe Lucas since he became champ.

And how can it be wasted if it generates a career payday for both?

[Faetter_BR]

1. Bika, Manfredo, Veit
2. Hopkins/Winky, Taylor, Dawson, RJJ

Bika, Veit and Manfredo - you got to be kiding!!!

Veit just lost to Inkin - who is a good fighter, but if you can't beat Inkin you are not going be a champion - not of the world anyway.

Manfredo - Couldn't even win a realityshow - Green will hopefully beat him out of the mix.

Bika - he is a fighter that is hard to look against, but he isn't going to win any titles - he doesn't have the abilities.

RJJ - how is that fight going to do anything for Calzaghe at this point?

Hokins/wright/Taylor - They are going to fight eachother before considering Calzaghe - winner of Wright/Hopkins verus winner of Taylor/Pavlik - for much more money and legacy than Calzaghe can ever offer.

Dawson - Calzaghe isn't moving up in weight - he is staying in SMW defending his WBO - if he was to move up he'd have done it a long time ago.

As for Eubanks being drained - he boxed in a weightclass above both before and after - I wouldn't say that he lost because he was drained - he lost because Calzaghe was better - but just the fact that the bookies had Calzaghe a big favourite says it all. If the fight was really the establised world star fighting the hot young prospect - then it would have been the other way around.

I'm not saying it wasn't a good win it was - but the fight comes nowhere near Calzaghe-Kessler!

[DanePugilist]

Bika, Veit and Manfredo - you got to be kiding!!!

Veit just lost to Inkin - who is a good fighter, but if you can't beat Inkin you are not going be a champion - not of the world anyway.

Manfredo - Couldn't even win a realityshow - Green will hopefully beat him out of the mix.

Bika - he is a fighter that is hard to look against, but he isn't going to win any titles - he doesn't have the abilities.

RJJ - how is that fight going to do anything for Calzaghe at this point?

Hokins/wright/Taylor - They are going to fight eachother before considering Calzaghe - winner of Wright/Hopkins verus winner of Taylor/Pavlik - for much more money and legacy than Calzaghe can ever offer.

Dawson - Calzaghe isn't moving up in weight - he is staying in SMW defending his WBO - if he was to move up he'd have done it a long time ago.

As for Eubanks being drained - he boxed in a weightclass above both before and after - I wouldn't say that he lost because he was drained - he lost because Calzaghe was better - but just the fact that the bookies had Calzaghe a big favourite says it all. If the fight was really the establised world star fighting the hot young prospect - then it would have been the other way around.

I'm not saying it wasn't a good win it was - but the fight comes nowhere near Calzaghe-Kessler!:deal:good

[Faetter_BR]

Veit beat Brahmer and was winning against Inkin before getting caught - you have to believe if Siaca, Mundine and Beyer were good enough to hold titles, you'll find that Manfredo, Veit and Bika are too.

RJJ will give Calzaghe casual/mainstream support - if he beats RJJ (as long as RJJ whips Hanshaws ass) he's beaten a true ATG and even at the decreased form RJJ is in now, it would be a close appearing fight.

Hopkins/Wright/Taylor - Hopkins and Taylor won't be fighting again, neither will Winky and Taylor, I don't think.

Calzaghe vs Kessler is not a big fight, take away the unification angle and it doesn't rate.

You better take away the career high payday too then...

Nobody rates RJJ anymore - sorry

As for the middleweight battle - the US-public will want to know who is the best -> big payday - it will be made. It's about 100 times more likely than Calzaghe facing any of them.

Veit wasn't winning - the fight was even on all three cards at the time...

As for Beyer, Mundine and Siaca - what difference does it make - earlier you said they weren't worthy champions - following that logic neither Veit, Manfredo or Bika will ever be worthy champions - hence not a good win for Calzaghe! :)

[Jens S]

Yes, it was actually Collins-Calzaghe that was scheduled. Calzaghe-Eubank drew a crowd of 13.000. It was not a fight at the same level of Calzaghe-Kessler. Eubank was scheduled to fight at 175 lbs. So he had to drain an extra 7 lbs. Extra! Because he had trouble making 175 in his previous fights.

Bika, Veit and Manfredo future champs :lol: That is funny. Bika has a slim chance if Kessler and Calzaghe moves up or retires. Veit weren't winning against Inkin. The fight was even, and anyone could see, that Veit had troubles coping with the power of Inkin. It was a question when he would collaps under the pressure. Manfredo??? Don't go there.

Jens

[China_hand_Joe]

Eubanks had been aware for 2 months that he was almost certainly going to be filling in for Collins and openly admits he was in as good shape as he was when he beat Benn and just as sharp.

[Jens S]

Hughweb, Calzaghe vs Manfredo sold about 35.000 tickets according to boxrec.com. Do you say that 25.000 of them came to see Manfredo? Put Khan on the undercard and you will easily have the same. And I bet ****** would like Khan to get some exposure in the US. The media will sell this fight to the crowd. Also expect a lot of danes to take the trip, if they can get tickets.

Jens

[China_hand_Joe]

Don't be a twatDid he honestly look weight drained and off his game? No. At that point in time he was better suited to 168 than any other weight, 175 too heavy, 160 too light.

[China_hand_Joe]

He officially weighed 181 at Old Trafford. And was there an ounce of fat on him in the Thompson fights?Plenty of well-toned fat, yes.

[China_hand_Joe]

He officially weighed 181 at Old Trafford. And was there an ounce of fat on him in the Thompson fights?13 pounds is nothing the way boxers dehydrate.

[Jens S]

Deram, the distinction between KO and TKO as a measure for power, is in itself ridiculous. To claim that a 9th round KO is a sign of more power than a 1st round TKO is nonsense.

Besides, if a boxer knocks his opponent unconscious and the referee doesn't even count, but just waves it of, it is a TKO!!! In your book, that is a sign of low power. Hmmm, I disagree.

If a fighter is stopped because of the three knockdown rule, it is a TKO.

If the referee counts to eight, looks at the boxer, decides he is not ready to fight and waves it of, it is a TKO. A KO is only when the referee actually counts to 10.

Remember Tszyu-Judah? One of my favorite knockouts of all-time. Well, that is actually a TKO, because Jay Nady decides to call it off before he reaches 10.

KO or TKO tells you absolutely nothing about how hard the punch was, or how brutal the stoppage was.

Denmark had it's own rules of boxing until something like 4 or 5 years ago. Now they follow the EBU rules. Rules are different all over the world. Besides it is the supervisor who determines the official result. They are not always comptent to do that. The knowledge of the boxing rules by danish judges are sometimes horrible, and that I have from DPBF itself (perhaps they should stop talking on their cell phones during the fights for a start).

Blocky, noone said it was a guaranteed 20 mill. fight. I have said 15 mill.

Jens

[King Dan]

This is ridiculous. A bout between the two best SMW's in the world is being thwarted by an American TV network!!! That's pathetic! This is why the boxing world would be a better place without the USA getting involved.

Ya, who needs all those great fights in Vegas and in the Garden?

Retard. :nut

[deram]

Deram, the distinction between KO and TKO as a measure for power, is in itself ridiculous. To claim that a 9th round KO is a sign of more power than a 1st round TKO is nonsense.

Besides, if a boxer knocks his opponent unconscious and the referee doesn't even count, but just waves it of, it is a TKO!!! In your book, that is a sign of low power. Hmmm, I disagree.

If a fighter is stopped because of the three knockdown rule, it is a TKO.

If the referee counts to eight, looks at the boxer, decides he is not ready to fight and waves it of, it is a TKO. A KO is only when the referee actually counts to 10.

Remember Tszyu-Judah? One of my favorite knockouts of all-time. Well, that is actually a TKO, because Jay Nady decides to call it off before he reaches 10.

KO or TKO tells you absolutely nothing about how hard the punch was, or how brutal the stoppage was.

Denmark had it's own rules of boxing until something like 4 or 5 years ago. Now they follow the EBU rules. Rules are different all over the world. Besides it is the supervisor who determines the official result. They are not always comptent to do that. The knowledge of the boxing rules by danish judges are sometimes horrible, and that I have from DPBF itself (perhaps they should stop talking on their cell phones during the fights for a start).

Blocky, noone said it was a guaranteed 20 mill. fight. I have said 15 mill.

Jens

I respectfully disagree.

There is imo. a difference between KO and TKO. BUT for sure you can find many examples that show that there is not ALWAYS a big difference. It is a little like saying that Chinese are shorter than Swedes. Someone could say "no, that doesn't make sense the world's tallest women is chinese and look at that Basketball player in the US etc.

Sure, the same goes here. Many examples that soften the difference, such as the Danish rules and single incidents. How ever overall, if we looked at how many have actually been counted out in Kessler's fights and compared that to Calzaghe's fights - I am pretty sure that we would find that Kessler had more KOs. Not as huge a diffence and the numbers show now, but still a difference.

Does it then show power this difference? Well, maybe - maybe not. But remember that I was not the one that started claiming that one of these two had more power than the other.

You said that Calzaghe had more power and that I think you will find it hard to show evidence to prove or just suport. The objective evidence points towards the dirrection that Kessler has more power if anything. But if you have a good explanation that can prove Calzaghe has more power then I will find it very interesting.

[Jens S]

You disagree with the rules? That is how they are.

Calzaghe KO/TKOs has on average been in the 3rd round. Kesslers in the 4th. Calzaghe's opponents have on average been way better.

Can you proove who has the most power? No, of course not. One can only come with arguments. But based on the fact, that you do not understand the difference between a KO and TKO, a further discussion is pointless.

Jens

[China_hand_Joe]

Kessler has the better one punch power now, no doubt. Calzaghe is just great at forcing the stoppage, with speed rather than power.

[Jens S]

Just for the argument, Deram: [Only registered and activated users can see links]
Click on the fight and count. 11 knockouts of the year was KO and 7 was TKO. KO/TKO is not a way to determine power. Just ask Roberto Duran about the TKO Hearns made on him. That was a wild m.therf.cker!

When a fighter is announced, they don't say fx. 40 wins, 20 KOs and 7 TKOs. They just say 27 KOs.

Jens

[langshof]

Exactly. You have all these threads about how well Europe can pull off fights better than Las Vegas, etc., etc., and yet here we have the a huge fight over there that's essentially begging the big, bad US cable network to pony up the cash. I still think it will happen, but the two sides will have to accept maybe 4 million, or something else closer to the middle. I hope HBO hasn't dug in its heels at 3 mil.

Remember, HBO also apparently changed terms for Taylor/Pavlik from 5 million to something lower. I hope the network isn't de-emphasizing the sport. Maybe it's just a matter of too many fights too close together, and the budget is stretched.

Excactly!!!

[langshof]

Calzaghe has had a solid career facing good-to-great opponents, he's ruled a division and the only people who have ever head hunted him, Reid, Woodhall, Veit, Lacy and now Kessler - have all had their chance to face him.

The only fight Calzaghe should definitely have had is against Glen Johnson but I think we all know he's winning that fight without issue at any point of his career.

As for Kessler, I still say it's a wasted fight and Kessler was just right person at the right time to take titles from Siaca and Beyer, both of whom were never worthwhile champions in my view

Kessler is now a worthwhile champion but not worthwhile of 50/50 share in a Calzaghe fight.

Good to great? ..... JC hasn't been near a great opponent.... - Ever.