View Full Version : Who Beats Bernard at 160 lbs in Boxing History
How many fighters in the history of the middleweight division would have beated him?
I honestly put him even money with anyone, including Haggler and Monzon, because of his discipline, ring generaliship, and understanding of how to fight. I know many would think I am placing him too high, so tell me about it.
sues2nd
06-29-2007, 09:57 PM
How many fighters in the history of the middleweight division would have beated him?
I honestly put him even money with anyone, including Haggler and Monzon, because of his discipline, ring generaliship, and understanding of how to fight. I know many would think I am placing him too high, so tell me about it.
No your not placing him high at all. I do feel some are greater all time then Hop (Hagler, Monzon), but head to head, because the type of fighter he is, he stacks up with ANY of them.
Of course there are a few (actually a hell of alot more than a few) people on here that hate Hop, so....your definately gonna get flamed for this.
Lostmykeys
06-29-2007, 10:03 PM
Roy Jones Jr who beats just about anyone at 160
Hagler I think would beat him 7/10.
Monzon has a shot on a good night.
Thats probably it. imo
Napoleon
06-29-2007, 10:04 PM
Greb
Hagler
Maybe Monzon
Jones Jr. obviously
Toney
Robinson
There's a few. All would be pretty good fights though.
:sad2:sad2:sad2:sad2
Roy Jones Jr who beats just about anyone at 160
Hagler I think would beat him 7/10.
Monzon has a shot on a good night.
Thats probably it. imo
7 of 10 is a number I can deal with, I can see Haggler wearring Bernard down, but it would be a hell of a fight. Some here on ESB think that Bernard and Haggler shouldnt be mentioned in the same sentence, I disagree.
salsanchezfan
06-29-2007, 10:10 PM
I think Robinson could outwork him, but it could go the other way there, too.
Lamotta might have the best chance. Hopkins was always at his best if you gave him the space he liked to work (well, who doesn't really). Realistically, Hopkins was at his best when he was allowed to dictate the pace. A Lamotta-type wouldn't have let this happen.
brooklyn1550
06-29-2007, 10:42 PM
I WOULD PICK THESE GUYS OVER BERNARD
Roy Jones, Jr.
Marvin Hagler
Harry Greb
Carlos Monzon
THESE GUYS WOULD HAVE A SHOT (BUT I WOULDN'T FAVOR THEM)
Jake LaMotta
Stanley Ketchel
Marcel Cerdan
James Toney
Michael Nunn
brooklyn1550
06-29-2007, 10:47 PM
Why the name calling??? I dont get it!!! Why cant you disagree with me and leave it at that!!!! Thats like the thrid time someone has called me some kind of dickweet name, real mature on your part bro......What I meant was that he had a hard time dealing with Taylor imagine with monsters like Hagler or Monson you CUNT!!! Annd YES Taylor BEAT him 2x regardless of how you see it or anyone else in the books Taylor has the Ws not Hopkins!!!
Carlos Monson wouldn't have stood a chance
Why the name calling??? I dont get it!!! Why cant you disagree with me and leave it at that!!!! Thats like the thrid time someone has called me some kind of dickweet name, real mature on your part bro......What I meant was that he had a hard time dealing with Taylor imagine with monsters like Hagler or Monson you CUNT!!! Annd YES Taylor BEAT him 2x regardless of how you see it or anyone else in the books Taylor has the Ws not Hopkins!!!
Dickweet.
elTerrible
06-29-2007, 11:33 PM
Why the name calling??? I dont get it!!! Why cant you disagree with me and leave it at that!!!! Thats like the thrid time someone has called me some kind of dickweet name, real mature on your part bro......What I meant was that he had a hard time dealing with Taylor imagine with monsters like Hagler or Monson you CUNT!!! Annd YES Taylor BEAT him 2x regardless of how you see it or anyone else in the books Taylor has the Ws not Hopkins!!!
you wouldnt last 5 minutes with BSG. He would eat you alive.
David B
06-29-2007, 11:56 PM
Roy Jones has beaten him
Jermain Taylor has beaten him
SRR
Marvin Hagler
SRL
A "prime" Michael Nunn
Charlie Burley
BoxingGuru
06-30-2007, 12:10 AM
Anyone who fights the first 6 rounds of a fight, because Bernard Hopkins sure as hell doesn't. Throwing 15 punches per round won't beat any top 20 fighter in history ever.
tills9191
06-30-2007, 12:25 AM
Rjj
Lostmykeys
06-30-2007, 12:26 AM
Bernard Hopkins is a perplexing boxer for a number of reasons. One is that Bernard Hopkins did not have a traditional "prime" like most fighters have. When he was at his physical prime in his mid twenties he was a lion in the ring. He had a monster right hand and great work rate. But he did not necesarily have the polished skills or defense that Hopkins had. This is why RJJ was able to get a relatively comfortable win over Bernard.
Bernard developed skills and defense as his career progressed. He became one of the more crafty and skillful middleweights of all time. But the fact remains that these to areas did not overlap. When he had the power the workrate and the mentality to fight he did not have the skills and defense that made him great.
So it is hard to rank him in a head to head sense against other great fighters.
David UK
06-30-2007, 03:30 AM
Greb
Hagler
Maybe Monzon
Jones Jr. obviously
Toney
Robinson
There's a few. All would be pretty good fights though.
Good call. Hopkins is good,but not THAT good!! You can also add Hearns to that list. Hopkins is on the same level as La Motta,Turpin,Fullmer.
I still find it difficult to believe that some people think Hopkins would have beaten Hagler. The idea is simply ludicrous.
cuchulain
06-30-2007, 03:35 AM
Roy Jones Jr who beats just about anyone at 160
Hagler I think would beat him 7/10.
Monzon has a shot on a good night.
Thats probably it. imo
Same as you but I'd add SRR 9better at 147 but still an ATG at 160.
If Oscar can move up and be competitive, SRR would do much better
So BHop is 4 or 5 alltime.
BoppaZoo
06-30-2007, 03:36 AM
at 160
easy
Carlos Monzon
Marvin Hagler
Roy Jones Jr
Ray Robinson
Ray Leonard
Harry Greb
Jermain Taylor
i have B-Hop winning against
Tommie Hearns
James Toney
Jake LaMotta
Felix Trinidad
Nigel Benn
Tony Zale
Gene Fullmer
Emile Griffith
Mike McCallum
Bernard Hopkins is a perplexing boxer for a number of reasons. One is that Bernard Hopkins did not have a traditional "prime" like most fighters have. When he was at his physical prime in his mid twenties he was a lion in the ring. He had a monster right hand and great work rate. But he did not necesarily have the polished skills or defense that Hopkins had. This is why RJJ was able to get a relatively comfortable win over Bernard.
Bernard developed skills and defense as his career progressed. He became one of the more crafty and skillful middleweights of all time. But the fact remains that these to areas did not overlap. When he had the power the workrate and the mentality to fight he did not have the skills and defense that made him great.
So it is hard to rank him in a head to head sense against other great fighters.
Great post. :good
dangerousity
06-30-2007, 09:52 AM
A young Hopkins IMO was too inexperienced for Hagler and an older wiser Hopkins wouldnt have the stamina to keep Hagler off him.
robert ungurean
06-30-2007, 10:14 AM
Fitzsimmons
Greb
Burley
E.Charles
Robinson
Cerdan
Monzon
Hagler
PolishPummler
06-30-2007, 01:44 PM
Roy with 1 hand.
PATSYS
06-30-2007, 02:20 PM
Jones
Toney
Hagler
Mcclellan
cuchulain
06-30-2007, 03:01 PM
The Fabulous 4 of the eightines would have all taken turns with him, like an effeminate con in drag at San Quentin caught in his cell by 4 convicts who havent seen a woman in 12 years.
Only Haggler would have.
The other three?
Too small for big Bernard.
brooklyn1550
06-30-2007, 03:33 PM
at 160
easy
Carlos Monzon
Marvin Hagler
Roy Jones Jr
Ray Robinson
Ray Leonard
Harry Greb
Jermain Taylor
He beat Hopkins twice (should have been once), but put him in against a younger B-Hop and he gets stopped.
Ray Leonard wouldn't have beaten Hopkins easy...Hopkins should be the favorite there.
Nobody beats Hopkins easy
brooklyn1550
06-30-2007, 03:34 PM
RJJ schooled Bernard. Can you imagine SR? Sugah would have made him look stupid inside the ring. Hearns would have knocked him the fuck out, inside of 8, and DURAN? Come on, Duran would have toyed with him, the way a vicious feral cat plays with a big mouse.
Duran toy with Hopkins? Give me a break Jack
RJJ schooled Bernard. Can you imagine SR? Sugah would have made him look stupid inside the ring. Hearns would have knocked him the fuck out, inside of 8, and DURAN? Come on, Duran would have toyed with him, the way a vicious feral cat plays with a big mouse.
And yet, this all somehow goes back to his association to GBP for you doesnt it? Hard to take you serious when you hate fighters for their associations to Oscar (just like you dont like Barrera).
You know what they say about male Hopkins fans.
Right and I would assume the fans of most boxers are male Jack.
Black Eyes To You
06-30-2007, 05:15 PM
Hearns
SRR
Fullmer
Hagler
Lamotta
Tiger
RJJ
cuchulain
06-30-2007, 07:37 PM
RJJ schooled Bernard. Can you imagine SR? Sugah would have made him look stupid inside the ring. Hearns would have knocked him the fuck out, inside of 8, and DURAN? Come on, Duran would have toyed with him, the way a vicious feral cat plays with a big mouse.
RJJ was bigger faster stronger and more skilled than SRL. So comparisons don't hold there.
SRL had trouble with Marvin ( Personally I scored it for Marvin, but I can live with the close decision)
Hearns did not carry his power up the weight scale. Haggler demo'd him.
Too small for big BHop.
And Duran, a natural lightweight taking on a natural light heavy?
Duran is my second favourite fighter of alltime (after Ali), and he did pull agreat win off over Barkley, but we're talking prime for prime here and Roberto is just not big enough. His prime was 135-147.
SRR, Hearn and Duran would dominate the 135-154 range if they were at prime and fighting today. Floyd, Oscar and Shane being the ONLY ones of the current bunch who could make things at least interesting with any one of them.
cuchulain
06-30-2007, 07:47 PM
RJJ schooled Bernard. Can you imagine SR? Sugah would have made him look stupid inside the ring. Hearns would have knocked him the fuck out, inside of 8, and DURAN? Come on, Duran would have toyed with him, the way a vicious feral cat plays with a big mouse.
RJJ was bigger faster stronger and more skilled than SRL. So comparisons don't hold there.
SRL had trouble with Marvin ( Personally I scored it for Marvin, but I can live with the close decision)
Hearns did not carry his power up the weight scale. Haggler demo'd him.
Too small for big BHop.
And Duran, a natural lightweight taking on a natural light heavy?
Duran is my second favourite fighter of alltime (after Ali), and he did pull agreat win off over Barkley, but we're talking prime for prime here and Roberto is just not big enough. His prime was 135-147.
SRR, Hearn and Duran would dominate the 135-154 range if they were at prime and fighting today. Floyd, Oscar and Shane being the ONLY ones of the current bunch who could make things at least interesting with any one of them.
dangerousity
06-30-2007, 07:59 PM
Thinking more about it, SRL IMO would have had an easy time with Hopkins. Hopkins had trouble with ODLH and yes he did win and yes he did stop ODLH but prior to that, he was getting outboxed. SRL is faster and more skilled than DLH or Taylor so I see him outboxing Hopkins and I seriously doubt Hopkins stops SRL.
McGrain
06-30-2007, 08:20 PM
Monzon, Burley and Greb are all definites, IMO.
Hagler, Moore, Charles and Holman Williams would all see him in close ones, though i'd pick Hopkins.
I think Sugar Ray would beat him too, but it would be an awkward night for Leonard.
BoppaZoo
07-01-2007, 02:39 AM
You think Taylor beats a prime B Hop yet he couldn't even win without getting a gift decision in his two fights with an old B-Hop?yeah good call but i think for ome reason B-Hop in both fights struggled to be himself because that is what Jermaine does is make poor fights.
i agree that B-Hop won one of those fights but the fact remains that Taylor did beat him and its not like Hopkins had lost anything at the time. i mean he still schooled Tarver.
Thats how i feel i think B-Hop is a all time great at 160 but there are a few fighters out there that could beat him and they are my picks.
brooklyn1550
07-01-2007, 03:53 AM
Thinking more about it, SRL IMO would have had an easy time with Hopkins. Hopkins had trouble with ODLH and yes he did win and yes he did stop ODLH but prior to that, he was getting outboxed. SRL is faster and more skilled than DLH or Taylor so I see him outboxing Hopkins and I seriously doubt Hopkins stops SRL.
Score the fight and you'll see during the time of the stoppage, Hopkins was ahead. Once Hopkins turned up the pressure, De La Hoya had no chance.
sues2nd
07-01-2007, 03:58 AM
Thinking more about it, SRL IMO would have had an easy time with Hopkins. Hopkins had trouble with ODLH and yes he did win and yes he did stop ODLH but prior to that, he was getting outboxed. SRL is faster and more skilled than DLH or Taylor so I see him outboxing Hopkins and I seriously doubt Hopkins stops SRL.
Ummmm, no he wasnt...Hopkins was up BIG on 2 of the 3 judges cards...very big actually.
:huh
deram
07-01-2007, 04:56 AM
Monzon, Burley and Greb are all definites, IMO.
Hagler, Moore, Charles and Holman Williams would all see him in close ones, though i'd pick Hopkins.
I think Sugar Ray would beat him too, but it would be an awkward night for Leonard.
I would not pick Hopkins over ANY of the names you mention. Hopkins got beaten fair and square when there was a good boxer at MW. Since then there has not really been high quality boxers in MW for his reign. His "best" wins are over smaller guys plus a shot guy coming directly from a Rocky movie.
I think Hopkins is good, but often seriously overrated.
enquirer
07-01-2007, 12:36 PM
How many guys with genuine speed did bernard beat?
How do you folks think hearns,hagler,robinson,monzon,ray leonard or even michael nunn would do against jermaine taylor in two consecutive fights?
dangerousity
07-01-2007, 05:18 PM
Score the fight and you'll see during the time of the stoppage, Hopkins was ahead. Once Hopkins turned up the pressure, De La Hoya had no chance.
It was still pretty close and considering, well IMO anyways ODLH is not anywhere the league of SRL in terms of boxing skills and speed I just think SRL would have outboxed him much easier. I also dont see Hopkins outmuscling him and KO'n him with a bodyshot. Even at 160, SRL still had very fast feet and fast combinations.
brooklyn1550
07-01-2007, 05:22 PM
It was still pretty close and considering, well IMO anyways ODLH is not anywhere the league of SRL in terms of boxing skills and speed I just think SRL would have outboxed him much easier. I also dont see Hopkins outmuscling him and KO'n him with a bodyshot. Even at 160, SRL still had very fast feet and fast combinations.
Leonard was great, but I just think at middleweight, Hopkins height, size, natural strength advantages, and his own slickness would get him a decision victory. I think he would try and make it a rough, physical fight, but Leonard was great and he could pull it off, so it's a hard fight to predict.
Primadonna Kool
07-01-2007, 07:15 PM
Roy Jones Junior
Nigel Benn
Chris Eubank
PrideOfWales
07-03-2007, 03:40 PM
Lots of people - and a few average guys already have.
Thread Stealer
07-03-2007, 03:41 PM
What? A 100% Toney would beat him IMO, Toney was awesome at his best. A focused, in shape Toney beats him IMO, bad matchup.
Toney was too inconsistent @ 160. Even on his on-nights @ 160, he was still improving as a fighter and how many times did he really look "awesome" there? The first McCallum fight, which was still a pretty close fight? Glenn Wolfe?
Ramshall1
07-03-2007, 03:43 PM
Jermain Taylor
Thread Stealer
07-03-2007, 03:46 PM
Roy & B-Hop were still relatively green in 1993, but even the Hopkins over the later years I make a slight underdog against RJJ @ 160. Roy's speed, power, and unorthodox style would always greatly trouble B-Hop.
Hopkins-Hagler is close to a pick-em. Both very skilled technicians, who could box and brawl. I think Hagler was more proven in terms of brawling and being able to take big shots from big hitters (although Hopkins took some good shots from Echols as well). Hopkins is a little slicker and has such a great record against lefties. I might make Hopkins the slight favorite over Marvin.
Monzon is another tough matchup. I've seen some of Monzon, I ought to watch some more. He's an ugly guy to watch so I don't exactly care all that much to order more fights. Anyway, from what I've seen that's another pick-em.
The Ray Robinson of 160, I can easily see a case where Hopkins wins, then Ray wins the rematch. Especially Robinson after his failed dancing career.
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