Heavyweight with the biggest built up records

[Bummy Davis]

I say Foreman had the biggest build up of nobody's leading to a title shot, with a toasted Chuvalo and Boone Kirkman as top 15 opponents, he struggled badly with Peralta 1st fight and they stopped the 2nd but PERALTA WAS NEVER HURT and they stopped it with Foreman winging. Holmes had another no name build up until the Norton fight and there was a controversy and indictment over his paid rankings( JOHN ORT of Ring magizine) Shavers was another,Duane Bobick was also a build up and Gerry Cooney but Big George takes the cake

[Titan1]

Tony Tucker is up there.

[Ramon Rojo]

Rocky Marciano, most of his opponents were bums.

[heerko koois]

Gary Mason.............

[heerko koois]

Rocky Marciano, most of his opponents were bums.

:twisted:

[ChrisPontius]

I say Foreman had the biggest build up of nobody's leading to a title shot, with a toasted Chuvalo and Boone Kirkman as top 15 opponents, he struggled badly with Peralta 1st fight and they stopped the 2nd but PERALTA WAS NEVER HURT and they stopped it with Foreman winging. Holmes had another no name build up until the Norton fight and there was a controversy and indictment over his paid rankings( JOHN ORT of Ring magizine) Shavers was another,Duane Bobick was also a build up and Gerry Cooney but Big George takes the cake

I agree on Foreman, the guys he fought the year before fighting Frazier are usually the ones someone fights in his first pro fight.

I think another one worth mentioning is Cleveland Williams.

Elmer Ray had a pretty padded record too i think. Roland Lastarza too.


Not taking anything away from their ability by the way, but their records were padded badly.

[good right hand]

im a fan of lou saverese and even i have to agree that his resume is one of the most built up for a heavyweight..... the thing is lou is such a nice guy that he would probably agree too.

[heerko koois]

im a fan of lou saverese and even i have to agree that his resume is one of the most built up for a heavyweight..... the thing is lou is such a nice guy that he would probably agree too.

Do you think that he can defeat Holyfield ? ....

[Jack Dempsey]

Rocky Marciano, most of his opponents were bums.

I think the bus is ready to take you back to the mental home

[heerko koois]

:lol: I think the bus is ready to take you back to the mental home

[heerko koois]

:verysad Rocky Marciano, most of his opponents were bums.

[Jack Dempsey]

Do people on here actually know what constitutes a bum?

[heerko koois]

:patsch :rofl Mike Tyson started out fighting stiffs. Some of them fell without getting hit.

[heerko koois]

Do people on here actually know what constitutes a bum?

They have seen the rocky movies once too often........

[Jack Dempsey]

They have seen the rocky movies once too often........

Or smoked a rock

[Vantage_West]

Tony Tucker is up there.:-(

[heerko koois]

:-(

Tucker was a decent contender ...against Douglas he came back from behind to stop him ....:bbb

[Mike T]

Joe Mesi

[heerko koois]

:think Joe Mesi

[NickHudson]

How about Lennox Lewis? Future ESB posters reflecting on his career (but who didnt live through it) might be impressed by the wins over Tyson and Holyfield when they scan through his CV.

But these fights merely padded out his record with high profile, utterly shot fighters.

[unitas]

all time number one is obviously lamar clark.

then there is people like monte masters and humphrey mcbride...

[McGrain]

How about Lennox Lewis? Future ESB posters reflecting on his career (but who didnt live through it) might be impressed by the wins over Tyson and Holyfield when they scan through his CV.

But these fights merely padded out his record with high profile, utterly shot fighters.

It should be pointed out that both fighters have looked much, much worse since their fight with Lewis - dramatically so. So describing them as "totally shot" at the time of their fighting Lewis may be stretching a point.

[ajohnfp]

Brian Nielsen. I can't believe I'm the first one to mention him.

[DocDevil]

Mac Foster and Jose Ibar Urtain .Foster was at 24-0,Urtain was at least 28-0.There was not a decision between them.

[joe33]

These boards are begining to stink,if you believe guys here,joe louis,max baer,primo canera,tyson(fucking tyson!!!!!!!!!!!!!),were all shit and beat up on bums,what a fuckign disgusting thing to say.
Add to that,ive seen posts here lately slaging off dempsey,and marciano,and even harry greb,whos record is out there,but of course i guess to many aholes think it must have been made up.
Its so easy to sit on the net,acting like gods,in one or two posts on here,we have placed most of boxings wonderful history to the scrap heap,these men had huge fan bases,and excited whole nations,but of course some fuckers on here,have a problem with them,mostly for sure a colour thing,im almost certain of that now.
How many guys here have even got into a ring,i have when younger for a while,and its fucking lethal as hell,i admire any one who has had 20+ fights,and just laugh now at the shit guys like HH and others come out with.
So whos fucking left then,if you took these men out,men who i have the upmost respect for,in there fighting careers,and who some i dont like,but shit people get real now.

[Russell]

Brian Nielsen. I can't believe I'm the first one to mention him.

We have a winnnnnner.

[unitas]

These boards are begining to stink,if you believe guys here,joe louis,max baer,primo canera,tyson(fucking tyson!!!!!!!!!!!!!),were all shit and beat up on bums,what a fuckign disgusting thing to say.
How many guys here have even got into a ring,i have when younger for a while,and its fucking lethal as hell,i admire any one who has had 20+ fights,and just laugh now at the shit guys like HH and others come out with.
So whos fucking left then,if you took these men out,men who i have the upmost respect for,in there fighting careers,and who some i dont like,but shit people get real now.

yeah, you are the greatest. we all bow down to you fucksuck:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[mr. magoo]

Whenever I'm having a dull or uneventful day, I can always rely on comedians from ESB to give me a good laugh, especially when it comes to Joe Louis fans and their claims about Goerge Foreman fighting bums, and Larry Holmes fighting kids with 20 or less pro fights.

Let's take a look at some of the seasoned veterans and talented fugilists, that Louis took on shall we?? ( No these are not the best opponents Louis fought, as I'm sure someone will respond back with in a ranting rage, but I still think its worth a gander.)

1. In Louis's 19th pro fight he faced Biff Bennet, who was 4-8-1.

2. In Louis's 20th pro fight he faced Rosco Toles, who was 2-4.

3. In Louis's 21st pro fight he faced Willie Davies, who was 0-7

4. In Louis's 22th pro fight he faced Gene Stanton, who was 12-26-1

5. In Louis's 31st pro fight, he faced Jorge Brescia, who was 8-0

6. In Louis's 32th pro fight he faced Eddie Simms, who was 19-18-3

7. In Louis's 33rd pro fight he faced Steve Ketchel, who was 0-0-0

8. In Louis's 35th pro fight he faced Natie Brown, who was 29-20

9. In Louis's 42nd pro fight, he faced Jack Roper, who was 56-40-10
( World title fight )

10. In Louis's 57th pro fight, he faced Johnny Davis, who was 3-3
( World title bout )

This was just a few.....

[joe33]

yeah, you are the greatest. we all bow down to you fucksuck:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Never said i was the greatest,you dick head,just finding some of these posts now pathetic.

[joe33]

Whenever I'm having a dull or uneventful day, I can always rely on comedians from ESB to give me a good laugh, especially when it comes to Joe Louis fans and their claims about Goerge Foreman fighting bums, and Larry Holmes fighting kids with 20 or less pro fights.

Let's take a look at some of the seasoned veterans and talented fugilists, that Louis took on shall we?? ( No these are not the best opponents Louis fought, as I'm sure someone will respond back with in a ranting rage, but I still think its worth a gander.)

1. In Louis's 19th pro fight he faced Biff Bennet, who was 4-8-1.

2. In Louis's 20th pro fight he faced Rosco Toles, who was 2-4.

3. In Louis's 21st pro fight he faced Willie Davies, who was 0-7

4. In Louis's 22th pro fight he faced Gene Stanton, who was 12-26-1

5. In Louis's 31st pro fight, he faced Jorge Brescia, who was 8-0

6. In Louis's 32th pro fight he faced Eddie Simms, who was 19-18-3

7. In Louis's 33rd pro fight he faced Steve Ketchel, who was 0-0-0

8. In Louis's 35th pro fight he faced Natie Brown, who was 29-20

9. In Louis's 42nd pro fight, he faced Jack Roper, who was 56-40-10
( World title fight )

10. In Louis's 57th pro fight, he faced Johnny Davis, who was 3-3
( World title bout )

This was just a few.....
Thats fine,but do you think louis was a shit fighter then?

[Vantage_West]

Tucker was a decent contender ...against Douglas he came back from behind to stop him ....:bbbi know....i was shaking my head in how bad a comment it was

great jab decent power he was a decent fighter i would give him to beat most of the modern titleists also he gave tysons toughest fight at the time and showed a blueprint in how to beat tyson beat him with the jab and cover him up and counter when he comes in with a hook.

[mr. magoo]

Thats fine,but do you think louis was a shit fighter then?


My answer to that question, is absolutely not. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, due to some of my criticisms, I actually hold Louis in very high regard, and have him rated highly. I fully respect the fact that he held the title for nearly 12 years, had 25 title defenses, and has unlimited social importance in our country's history.

My biggest problem with Louis, is not so much Louis himself, but rather his fans. Some of them are not content at just rating him for his legacy, nor what he acheived in his day. Oh no!! They have to make these head to head fantasy matchups, laiming that he would defeat the likes of Tyson, Holmes, Holyfield, Lewis, Foreman, Liston, Frazier etc. That's fine I guess, however they base these claims on the fact that the above guys fought what they consider to be subpar competition, while steadfastly stating that Louis fought men who were infinately better.

Louis was a great champion, but quite possibly faced some of the worst opposition of most linear title holders, and at times had extreme difficulty or even near losses.

For this reason, I simply can't give him the benefit of the doubt against most of boxing's latter contemporary champions........

[joe33]

My answer to that question, is absolutely not. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, due to some of my criticisms, I actually hold Louis in very high regard, and have him rated highly. I fully respect the fact that he held the title for nearly 12 years, had 25 title defenses, and has unlimited social importance in our country's history.

My biggest problem with Louis, is not so much Louis himself, but rather his fans. Some of them are not content at just rating him for his legacy, nor what he acheived in his day. Oh no!! They have to make these head to head fantasy matchups, laiming that he would defeat the likes of Tyson, Holmes, Holyfield, Lewis, Foreman, Liston, Frazier etc. That's fine I guess, however they base these claims on the fact that the above guys fought what they consider to be subpar competition, while steadfastly stating that Louis fought men who were infinately better.

Louis was a great champion, but quite possibly faced some of the worst opposition of most linear title holders, and at times had extreme difficulty or even near losses.

For this reason, I simply can't give him the benefit of the doubt against most of boxing's latter contemporary champions........

I cant stand these fantasy match ups either,no way any one can prove shit either way,if he was about today,he would no doubt be bigger and stronger and may not even be a HW,so many different things to think about,but i love the guy myself,some of his KOs were brutal,..........but i tend to agree with you he did fight some shit.

[mr. magoo]

I cant stand these fantasy match ups either,no way any one can prove shit either way,if he was about today,he would no doubt be bigger and stronger and may not even be a HW,so many different things to think about,but i love the guy myself,some of his KOs were brutal,..........but i tend to agree with you he did fight some shit.


Fair enough...

[Dempsey1238]

I belive a good number of thsos fighter's records are incomplete in regards to Louis.

[good right hand]

Do you think that he can defeat Holyfield ? ....

as much as a fan for saverese i am, i cant dismiss how tough holyfeild is even if he is about 50% of what he was before.

savarese a great guy but really only a fringe contender at best, so he will have a pretty big monutain ahead.

id bet on saverese but only cause im a fan. its a pickem fight

[mr. magoo]

I belive a good number of thsos fighter's records are incomplete in regards to Louis.


Probably true.

I'm guessing that they could very conceivably had more losses and draws, some of which were omitted for the purpose of making them look more marketable.

[quintonjacksonfan]

Valuev

[Dempsey1238]

Or wins?? You dont think Simms could of had 40 wins or something?

[mr. magoo]

Or wins?? You dont think Simms could of had 40 wins or something?

Doubtful.

For one thing, record keeping had improved tremendously by the 1930's and 40's. Although it was far from perfect, it had come a long way since the turn of the century. Even though there may have been some discrepencies, where some small numbers were concerned, occasional errors hardly came in the form of a 20 or 30 fight difference by that point. What's more, given that Louis was prized very early on as a people's fighter, and hence big bread winner, it's far more likely that his opposition would have had their records altered for the better, not the worse.

In either case, these notions regarding inacurrate record keeping are inconclusive, and without solid evidence, making them virtually irrelevent.

[TBooze]

Quite a few genuine contenders padded their record up on a few bums.

But although anything but a genuine contender, few go as far as Alonzo Highsmith...


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[My dinner with Conteh]

Tony Tucker is up there.


Good call. Tucker never convincingly beat anyone who was any good. The worst thing is, almost every time someone won the title this lummox was number one contender. :huh



Of the better title holders: Tyson and Foreman's path to the crown was pretty poor. Foreman always seemingly gets stick for it, Tyson: never; and gay boy's was a bit easier.

[TBooze]

Of the better title holders: Tyson and Foreman's path to the crown was pretty poor. Foreman always seemingly gets stick for it, Tyson: never; and gay boy's was a bit easier.

I am no Tyson fan, but in his defence from his pro debut to beating Berbick 20 months went past.

If you told me a heavyweight turning pro today will fight for a piece of alphabet crap in March 2009 and beat a fringe contender and few decent journeyman on the way, I would say that is quite impressive...

[My dinner with Conteh]

I am no Tyson fan, but in his defence from his pro debut to beating Berbick 20 months went past.

If you told me a heavyweight turning pro today will fight for a piece of alphabet crap in March 2009 and beat a fringe contender and few decent journeyman on the way, I would say that is quite impressive...



I know, but this thread is basically about who fought the most stiffs before his title chance. Tyson comes pretty high up. Tyson and Foreman's victories are all the more impressive in that they didn't really have ample experience to take on the champ.

[TBooze]

I know, but this thread is basically about who fought the most stiffs before his title chance. Tyson comes pretty high up. Tyson and Foreman's victories are all the more impressive in that they didn't really have ample experience to take on the champ.

Tyson beat Ribalta, Ratcliff, Tillis, Green, Ferguson. And it should also be noted that with the exception of his first few fights all these 'stiffs' had winning records...

[My dinner with Conteh]

Tyson beat Ribalta, Ratcliff, Tillis, Green, Ferguson. And it should also be noted that with the exception of his first few fights all these 'stiffs' had winning records...



Well I suppose Foreman fought morer stiffs, but he beat three fighters rated in the the Ring's top 10: Chuvalo, Peralta and Kirkman. I'm not sure any of Tyson's were.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Can't be arsed editing my spelling errors there by the way. :yep

[TBooze]

Well I suppose Foreman fought morer stiffs, but he beat three fighters rated in the the Ring's top 10: Chuvalo, Peralta and Kirkman. I'm not sure any of Tyson's were.

Maybe Ribalta... but certainly no one else, you are right there.

I certainly thought Berbick would beat Tyson going into their fight, not least because Tyson had not met anyone as good as Berbick at the time. And the odds for the fight were pick-em for a long time (Tyson eventually walked into the ring a warmish favourite)

[My dinner with Conteh]

Maybe Ribalta... but certainly no one else, you are right there.



I'll check later. Ribalta may have been. Not sure. But my guess is that Green was rated around 20ish by Ring, Tillis around 16 or something. Maybe lower.

[NickHudson]

For the love of god Mr.Magoo,

where did you unearth your latest avatar.

magnificent...

[Sizzle]

Anyone mentioning Tyson needs their head checked.

You'd think as a 19 year old professional that missed out on the olympics you could be forgiven for beginning your career fighting against people with a similar amount of experience?:patsch

He used the FIRST YEAR of a 20+ year career to develop experience fighting professionally, and then became the youngest ever heavyweight titlist.

It takes time to build your stamina/experience up from fighting 3-4 rounders in the amateurs to fighting against seasoned professionals in proper pro bouts.

[TBooze]

Anyone mentioning Tyson needs their head checked.

You'd think as a 19 year old professional that missed out on the olympics you could be forgiven for beginning your career fighting against people with a similar amount of experience?:patsch

He used the FIRST YEAR of a 20+ year career to develop experience fighting professionally, and then became the youngest ever heavyweight titlist.

It takes time to build your stamina/experience up from fighting 3-4 rounders in the amateurs to fighting against seasoned professionals in proper pro bouts.

But has been pointed out the thread is about built up records, it is not saying it is a good or bad thing... And Tyson's 85/86 record is bulit on if not out and out stiffs, then journeymen, but as was proved, that turned out to be not a bad thing.

[McGrain]

These boards are begining to stink,if you believe guys here,joe louis,max baer,primo canera,tyson(fucking tyson!!!!!!!!!!!!!),were all shit and beat up on bums,what a fuckign disgusting thing to say.

This may be the best post since the ESB crash.

Well said.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Anyone mentioning Tyson needs their head checked.

You'd think as a 19 year old professional that missed out on the olympics you could be forgiven for beginning your career fighting against people with a similar amount of experience?:patsch


You don't say. Hey, thanks for that pearl of wisdom. :good

The point was, the opponents he beat didn't really warrant a crack at the world title. Disagree?

[Steve Fox]

Bruno probably deserves a mention.

[Bad_Intentions]

foreman won 76 fights, he must have fought alot of bums in the beginning of his career.

[TBooze]

Bruno probably deserves a mention.

Damn you; Reggie Gross was the second comming, and words cannot describe Chuck Gardner... literally!:yep

[Holmes' Jab]

I say Foreman had the biggest build up of nobody's leading to a title shot, with a toasted Chuvalo and Boone Kirkman as top 15 opponents, he struggled badly with Peralta 1st fight and they stopped the 2nd but PERALTA WAS NEVER HURT and they stopped it with Foreman winging.

:yep :good

[Mendoza]

My vote would be for Eric Esch or Peter McNeely.

[Holmes' Jab]

Tony Tucker is up there.

Correct. :yep

[AREA 53]

Lamar Clark !

[Bigcat]

Tony Tucker had a great run of wins...

[CANNONBALL]

donald steele,who went 44-0,44 ko's until he fought the legendary brian nielsen. his best opponent was a very washed up mike dixon

[mr. magoo]

Some folks have mentioned Tony Tucker on this thread, and even though he has definately had a run of weak wins, he's not note worthy of being listed as a padded record guy...

Tucker beat prime versions of Douglas, Broad, Norris, Mccall, and several others. He also went the distance with prime versions of Tyson and Lewis, one of whom he fought with a broken hand, while the other he faced at age 35...

......Lay off of Tucker people......

[heerko koois]

:good Some folks have mentioned Tony Tucker on this thread, and even though he has definately had a run of weak wins, he's not note worthy of being listed as a padded record guy...

Tucker beat prime versions of Douglas, Broad, Norris, Mccall, and several others. He also went the distance with prime versions of Tyson and Lewis, one of whom he fought with a broken hand, while the other he faced at age 35...

......Lay off of Tucker people......

[My dinner with Conteh]

The only name of note on Tucker's CV before his title chance was that useless lummox James Broad. Douglas then threw away the chance to become champ after looking the better man vs Tucker. Tony only looked hal-decent when losing (to Tyson and Lewis). He never convincingly beat any decent fighters, and, bizarrely, ever time somebody won the crown this lemon was their mandatory. "Hey, you'll have to fight Tucker or be stripped." What? Him again. The most overrated fight of the whole decade- bar none. A 'just glad to be here' type if there ever was one. An awful memory of the stench of 1980s heavyweights.

[ibragimovfan]

Joe Mesi

[Calroid]

Surprised nobody has mention Gerry Cooney.

[rekcutnevets]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

This is about as padded as it can get before your first loss.

[Club Fighter]

I think the bus is ready to take you back to the mental home

He's such a great champion that he only managed to have 6 title defenses in 49 fights. He was fighting JV for most of his career and whenever he did fight someone noteworthy they were already collecting social security. Ramon Rojo's post still stands.


Shannon Briggs, the Tomato Can King.

[Steve Fox]

Damn you; Reggie Gross was the second comming, and words cannot describe Chuck Gardner... literally!:yepI might be wrong on this, but I think Chuck Gardner beat Tyson as an Am.

[TBooze]

I might be wrong on this, but I think Chuck Gardner beat Tyson as an Am.

Your wrong, Gardner was a pro in 1976. Me thinks you are getting mixed up with Iowa Mike Tyson;) (who Gardner beat as a pro).

In all seriousness Gardner was no mug, he had a winning record and a decision win over an ancient Jimmy Young.