Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

[omega dega Doom]

who would win and why both being in their primes? I say "sweet pea" by unanimous decision!:thumbsup

[Melo]

Please do a search, this has been discussed not too long ago... In a couple of minutes this thread will be full of fans claiming Pernell is a >100 punches per round "offensive monster" :roll:

[jyuza]

Well Pernell is, indeed, a >100 punches per round "offensive monster" at lightweight.

[omega dega Doom]

Please do a search, this has been discussed not too long ago... In a couple of minutes this thread will be full of fans claiming Pernell is a >100 punches per round "offensive monster" :roll: I think that is a "tall tail" but Pernell would take PBF to college and show him how to "pop shot" an opponent and make him miss without "running" and pernell's hands were faster overall!:thumbsup

[brooklyn1550]

Whitaker UD

[Danny Ocean]

mayweather decision

[omega dega Doom]

Wow this one hasn't been done before. Whitaker UD. well great and I see you didn't have a problem posting again!:bart Pernell has to be one of the top 3 all time great Boxers in history!:bbb

[omega dega Doom]

If we were arguing over who would win between a guy of today and a guy of 1908 you would have a point, but to say a guy who had his last fight in 2001 is outdated is like saying Tyson is outdated compared to today's Heavyweights, which is ludicrous.

Here are things to take into consideration:

Pernell threw more punches, WAY more punches at that. He was often the aggressor in his fights in his prime(which a lot of fools who havne't seen him fight will disagree with me on). Floyd hasn't been any kind of aggressor since 130(and maybe the Gatti fight). At 135 and 140 Floyd was more explosive, but not quicker or slicker, it depends on your definition of quick.

Pernell had a different style of defense but better. This is how the fight goes down IMO: Whitaker throws more punches by far while being the aggressor, PBF tries to do his move and pot shot thing, but against Pernell he finds it harder to land those single shots that he normally lands, all the while Pernell's jab is giving Pea a lot of trouble and Pea is throwing more punches and being the aggressor. This will look good to the judges. Pea wins by decision pretty handily. Floyd doesn't have what it takes to throw combinations on Pea without loooking foolish, considering Floyd was never much of a combo puncher past 130.I concur totally! blocky remember what Judah did to mayweather the first four rounds? with Pernell it would be like that for 12!!!! bow down fool, mayweather has yet to fight a 1/3 of the great fight's whitaker has been in! Whitaker fought the best not the "use to be ok,fighters and one or two use to be best fighters":roll:

[Robbi]

I say Pea gets fucked in this fight. Yes he had great defense but his offense wasn't really there despite what these fucking clowns tell you.

Pea may have cause to dispute his loss against De La Hoya but the fact is, it was a very close fight - De La Hoya has never had the defensive ability nor offensive style of a Floyd Mayweather

Lets say this fight takes place at 140 - Floyd still had decent power, speed that would make Eyewitnesses described a Jeep Cherokee being driven at speed towards the main doors of Glasgow airport's terminal building with flames coming out from underneath shortly after 1500 BSTand a defensive pattern which would kill Pernell

Stop orgasmining over the past, Pernell gets fucked.

One thing to say about you.........IDIOT.

[Robbi]

I say Pea gets fucked in this fight. Yes he had great defense but his offense wasn't really there despite what these fucking clowns tell you.

Pea may have cause to dispute his loss against De La Hoya but the fact is, it was a very close fight - De La Hoya has never had the defensive ability nor offensive style of a Floyd Mayweather

Lets say this fight takes place at 140 - Floyd still had decent power, speed that would make Pernell look average and a defensive pattern which would kill Pernell

Stop orgasmining over the past, Pernell gets fucked.

Regarding your opinion that Whitaker had a very close fight with De La Hoya, and your correct, but he was past his prime when they fought in 1997. He was still a damn good fighter during the mid 90's, but he clearly never had the same handspeed and refelxes as he did as a lightweight, or even a light-welterweight 5 years before the De La Hoya fight.

A 33 year old Whitaker showed better defense against a 24 year old De La Hoya than a 30 year old Mayweather did against a 34 year old De La Hoya.

[sues2nd]

Please do a search, this has been discussed not too long ago... In a couple of minutes this thread will be full of fans claiming Pernell is a >100 punches per round "offensive monster" :roll:

Are you an idiot. Look up the punch stats. Pernell regularly threw 100+ a round, 1000+ a fight. Its a stat you can look up?

Are you serious?

[sues2nd]

I say Pea gets fucked in this fight. Yes he had great defense but his offense wasn't really there despite what these fucking clowns tell you.

Pea may have cause to dispute his loss against De La Hoya but the fact is, it was a very close fight - De La Hoya has never had the defensive ability nor offensive style of a Floyd Mayweather

Lets say this fight takes place at 140 - Floyd still had decent power, speed that would make Pernell look average and a defensive pattern which would kill Pernell

Stop orgasmining over the past, Pernell gets fucked.

Oh Blocky Blocky Blocky...why do I always have to set you straight.

Whitaker was one of the fastest fighters in history....faster than Floyd. Yet another time you prove that you NEVER saw a prime Whitaker.

Now as for the DLH fight, most consider (myself included) that Sweet Pea won a close, but CLEAR UD. He was the busier fighter, he was the better defender, he landed the cleaner punches (even dropped Oscar) and kept the fight at the pace he wanted.

But, through all of that you must remember....THAT WAS NOT A PRIME SWEET PEA!!!!

The ONLY advantage Floyd (who is one of my favorite fighters....so this is NOT a biased opinion) would have is power. Thats it.

He wasnt the smarter fighter.
He wasnt the faster fighter.
He wasnt the better defender (Pea is generally considered the best EVER, Floyd isnt even the best of this generation).
He wasnt more accurate.
He DEFINATELY didnt have a better workrate.
He doesnt have the better PROVEN chin.
He has more experience.
He has more championship experience.

Its just a mismatch. Tho, with Floyd's unbelievable talent, it would still be a close fight. BUT, Sweet Pea takes it UD.

[o_money]

Pea. but would be one of the most interesting fights because so would be possible from both fighters.

[Mohak]

Whitaker by brutal KO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, I'm stretching it a bit. Whitaker UD

[o_money]

Pernell had a different style of defense but better. This is how the fight goes down IMO: Whitaker throws more punches by far while being the aggressor, PBF tries to do his move and pot shot thing, but against Pernell he finds it harder to land those single shots that he normally lands, all the while Pernell's jab is giving Pea a lot of trouble and Pea is throwing more punches and being the aggressor. This will look good to the judges. Pea wins by decision pretty handily. Floyd doesn't have what it takes to throw combinations on Pea without loooking foolish, considering Floyd was never much of a combo puncher past 130.

This is by far the most likely out come.

Great analysis.

[o_money]

I say Pea gets fucked in this fight. Yes he had great defense but his offense wasn't really there despite what these fucking clowns tell you.

Pea may have cause to dispute his loss against De La Hoya but the fact is, it was a very close fight - De La Hoya has never had the defensive ability nor offensive style of a Floyd Mayweather

Lets say this fight takes place at 140 - Floyd still had decent power, speed that would make Pernell look average and a defensive pattern which would kill Pernell

Stop orgasmining over the past, Pernell gets fucked.

stopped reading here.

[o_money]

Not me again? Explain that.

Who cares what the majority of fighters are considered, Oscar was at his best at 140 really and was a 3 time champ by the time he fought Whitaker, the extra 7 pounds really just meant he didn't have to cut as much, I doubt it hindered his performance, especially against a smaller fighter. Oscar was not green or anything close to it as some would have you believe.
I agree. I would say that when oscar fought pea he was pretty dam close to his best. So close that him not having peaked yet shouldn't really be an argument.

Yes it was oscar first fight at the weight but its not like pea was a natural WW anyways.

Yes oscar was probably not as physically strong as he eventually became. But he wasn't far off. He was as quick as he ever was and (most importantly) didn't have the stamina problems that developed in his late twenties.

And as for green. Come on the guy had something like 250 amateur fights. A gold medal and three world titles at 2 different weight classes.
And wins over molina, ruelas, hernandez, Gonzalez, and chavez all world titlist. (to name a few)

[Robbi]

Oh Blocky Blocky Blocky...why do I always have to set you straight.

Whitaker was one of the fastest fighters in history....faster than Floyd. Yet another time you prove that you NEVER saw a prime Whitaker.

Now as for the DLH fight, most consider (myself included) that Sweet Pea won a close, but CLEAR UD. He was the busier fighter, he was the better defender, he landed the cleaner punches (even dropped Oscar) and kept the fight at the pace he wanted.

But, through all of that you must remember....THAT WAS NOT A PRIME SWEET PEA!!!!

The ONLY advantage Floyd (who is one of my favorite fighters....so this is NOT a biased opinion) would have is power. Thats it.

He wasnt the smarter fighter.
He wasnt the faster fighter.
He wasnt the better defender (Pea is generally considered the best EVER, Floyd isnt even the best of this generation).
He wasnt more accurate.
He DEFINATELY didnt have a better workrate.
He doesnt have the better PROVEN chin.
He has more experience.
He has more championship experience.

Its just a mismatch. Tho, with Floyd's unbelievable talent, it would still be a close fight. BUT, Sweet Pea takes it UD.

One thing thats factually wrong that you state here. Mayweather did have a better chin than Whitaker. Mayweather has never been down as a pro, apart from touching down against Judah, which was not scored a knockdown, but should have been. Whitaker has been down many times. Although most were nothing knockdowns, usually little clips to the top of the head as he was squating down. Roger Mayweather, Buddy McGirt II, and Vasquez, some others I can't mind. I will however say that most of Whitaker's knockdown's were when he was a bit off balance when getting knocked down, usually squating down low. But knockowns. He was never hurt, and got up with imediate effect.

I don't have the stats on exactly how many times Whitaker was knocked down, but its between 4 and 6 times.

And regarding the knockdown he scored against De La Hoya. Thats exactly the type of knockdown I'm talking about which happened to Whitaker most of the time during his career. I watched the fight last week, and De La Hoya was clearly off balance and falling downwards before Whitaker clipped him with that little chopping left inside. I viewed the replay of it from different angles, and the aerial view clearly shows it was an off balance slip/knockdown. Correctly scored a knockdown, but it was helped with De La Hoya slipping and being off blance before the punch was delivered.

Whitaker UD over Mayweather.

[sues2nd]

One thing thats factually wrong that you state here. Mayweather did have a better chin than Whitaker. Mayweather has never been down as a pro, apart from touching down against Judah, which was not scored a knockdown, but should have been. Whitaker has been down many times. Although most were nothing knockdowns, usually little clips to the top of the head as he was squating down. Roger Mayweather, Buddy McGirt II, and Vasquez, some others I can't mind. I will however say that most of Whitaker's knockdown's were when he was a bit off balance when getting knocked down, usually squating down low. But knockowns. He was never hurt, and got up with imediate effect.

I don't have the stats on exactly how many times Whitaker was knocked down, but its between 4 and 6 times.

Well I said that Whitaker had the better proven chin...not nessesarilly the better chin. That is arguable.

But if you look at who has been in there with the better fighters...its easily Whitaker. And if you look at who has been in there with the bigger punchers...its also easily Whitaker. In other words he has proven it...time and time again. And like you said, I have seen pretty much EVERY meaningful Whitaker fight and as you said, I have never seen him hurt (except vs Tito, but that was an old, past his prime, ruined by drug abuse, right out of rehab Sweet Pea).

Again, proven chin....

And regarding the knockdown he scored against De La Hoya. Thats exactly the type of knockdown I'm talking about which happened to Whitaker most of the time during his career. I watched the fight last week, and De La Hoya was clearly off balance and falling downwards before Whitaker clipped him with that little chopping left inside. I viewed the replay of it from different angles, and the aerial view clearly shows it was an off balance slip/knockdown. Correctly scored a knockdown, but it was helped with De La Hoya slipping and being off blance before the punch was delivered.

Again, I never said it was a big shot...or that he hurt Oscar with it. I stated that he dropped him...in other words a two point round. Couple that with the other things I stated about the fight and its exactly what I said...A close, but CLEAR UD for Sweet Pea.

Whitaker UD over Mayweather.

DAMN RIGHT!!!

:good

[nervousxtian]

I think Floyd beats Pea, but it'd be a close fight.

I think Floyd at that weight had more power and wasn't as hesitant as he is now in the larger weights to engage. Pea never fought a guy like Floyd, and I think Floyd gives Pea all kinds of problems.

I'm a huge Pea fan though, and I'd want him to whoop on Floyd, I just don't think he could.

[Robbi]

Well I said that Whitaker had the better proven chin...not nessesarilly the better chin. That is arguable.

But if you look at who has been in there with the better fighters...its easily Whitaker. And if you look at who has been in there with the bigger punchers...its also easily Whitaker. In other words he has proven it...time and time again. And like you said, I have seen pretty much EVERY meaningful Whitaker fight and as you said, I have never seen him hurt (except vs Tito, but that was an old, past his prime, ruined by drug abuse, right out of rehab Sweet Pea).

Again, proven chin....



Again, I never said it was a big shot...or that he hurt Oscar with it. I stated that he dropped him...in other words a two point round. Couple that with the other things I stated about the fight and its exactly what I said...A close, but CLEAR UD for Sweet Pea.



DAMN RIGHT!!!

:good

No problem mate. I tried to add you on MSN dude, but don't think you use it, or you maybe declinded my invite as never knew who I was.

[sues2nd]

No problem mate. I tried to add you on MSN dude, but don't think you use it, or you maybe declinded my invite as never knew who I was.

Nah I didnt decline it...I hardly ever use it (and its [Only registered and activated users can see links]). Add me on AIM....same name as my forum name (sues2nd).

I should really update that damn profile, lol!

[fightking12]

Mayweather win UD his defense is too good

[sues2nd]

Mayweather win UD his defense is too good

Never saw Pea's defense have ya?

Trust me...its much better.

Like I said earlier....Sweet Pea is widely considered the best defender EVER...Floyd isnt even the best defender of this generation.

[Robbi]

If anyone here wants Whitaker signed items, give me a shout. The guy I deal with was the first dealer to officially do a signing with him. He met Whitaker at the Mayweather v Gatti fight in June 2005, and Whitaker agreed to do a signing for him.

He's one of the biggest memorabilia dealers in the US.

Gloves
16x20 v De La Hoya
16x20 v Trinidad
8x10 standing in corner, signed by Whitaker and Duva.

[bigtime9]

floyd by UD no way pea beats him.

[Robbi]

Whitaker and Mayweather are both great boxers. The way it should be done inside the squared circle. Complete prize fighters. None of this Chavez and Hatton coming straight ahead like bulls nonsene.

[sues2nd]

floyd by UD no way pea beats him.

OH NO HERE WE GO!!!






hurhurhurhurhurhurhur!!!!

[nervousxtian]

How much for an 8x10 or some gloves?

[Robbi]

How much for an 8x10 or some gloves?

Have a look on my profile on here, and you'll see the link for his site.

Signed glove $60

8x10 in corner with Duva, signed by both $30

16x20 v Trinidad $40
16x20 v De La Hoya $40

All come with COA and photo from the signging with each item.

His link is on my profile, you'll see his website. He distributes to other dealers as well. He's without question the biggest in the US. Duran, Frazier, Barrera, Lopez, Lamotta, Carter, L Spinks, Holmes, and others.

[brooklyn1550]

Mayweather win UD his defense is too good

He is great defensively, but he is no Pernell Whitaker

[C Money]

Prime 4 Prime??
Sweet Pea gives Floyd a few lessons in the sweet science.:good
Floyd fans talk soooooo much shit but PBF can be outboxed. This would be one of those matchup's that prove it!!!


Sucks we gotta wait for Heaven to find out:lol:

[SUNOF7]

:bbb Prime 4 Prime??
Sweet Pea gives Floyd a few lessons in the sweet science.:good
Floyd fans talk soooooo much shit but PBF can be outboxed. This would be one of those matchup's that prove it!!!


Sucks we gotta wait for Heaven to find out:lol:


FLOYD OUTBOXED??? come on man. some of you guys have zero respect for mayweather because he is so good that his fights are boring. just because the opponent is not able to land many punches people hate floyd's style... Whitaker had nothing to keep Mayweather off of him. he might too many's suprise take the beating of his life. PBF has gone to 154 pounds unscathed!!! the guy is a tremendous fighter no matter what people who hate his style say

[SugarRay]

:bbb


FLOYD OUTBOXED??? come on man. some of you guys have zero respect for mayweather because he is so good that his fights are boring. just because the opponent is not able to land many punches people hate floyd's style... Whitaker had nothing to keep Mayweather off of him. he might too many's suprise take the beating of his life. PBF has gone to 154 pounds unscathed!!! the guy is a tremendous fighter no matter what people who hate his style say

Unscathed??? Who has he fought? A past-the-prime dela Hoya??? Give me a break. A past-the-prime Whitaker beat a prime dela Hoya. There is no one on Mayweather's record apart from an aging dela Hoya who is even comparable to Chavez, Nelson, dela Hoya, along with a few others.

Mayweather won't be busy enough to beat Whitaker. Whitaker will embarass Mayweather like his other oponents at whatever weight. Whitaker UD.

Whitaker vs Mosley would be a more even comparison.

[sues2nd]

Unscathed??? Who has he fought? A past-the-prime dela Hoya??? Give me a break. A past-the-prime Whitaker beat a prime dela Hoya. There is no one on Mayweather's record apart from an aging dela Hoya who is even comparable to Chavez, Nelson, dela Hoya, along with a few others.

Mayweather won't be busy enough to beat Whitaker. Whitaker will embarass Mayweather like his other oponents at whatever weight. Whitaker UD.

Whitaker vs Mosley would be a more even comparison.

Well said...tho I do think it would be a pretty close fight. But I think you hit the nail on the head with what I highlighted.

And your right, I think Mosely matches up better with Pernell than Floyd does.

[omega dega Doom]

Unscathed??? Who has he fought? A past-the-prime dela Hoya??? Give me a break. A past-the-prime Whitaker beat a prime dela Hoya. There is no one on Mayweather's record apart from an aging dela Hoya who is even comparable to Chavez, Nelson, dela Hoya, along with a few others.

Mayweather won't be busy enough to beat Whitaker. Whitaker will embarass Mayweather like his other oponents at whatever weight. Whitaker UD.

Whitaker vs Mosley would be a more even comparison.well said brotha!:happy

[brooklyn1550]

:bbb


(1) FLOYD OUTBOXED??? come on man. some of you guys have zero respect for mayweather because he is so good that his fights are boring. just because the opponent is not able to land many punches people hate floyd's style... (2) Whitaker had nothing to keep Mayweather off of him. he might too many's suprise take the beating of his life. (3) PBF has gone to 154 pounds unscathed!!! the guy is a tremendous fighter no matter what people who hate his style say

1. If anybody could outbox Floyd, it's Pernell who was always busy, throwing in combinations, moving his upperbody, and sticking out his sharp jab. And yes Floyd could be outboxed...Thomas Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard, and Wilfred Benitez could have outboxed him.

2. Chavez, Ramirez, and Vasquez had chins just as good, if not better than Floyd (Chavez and Ramirez surely had better chins) and Whitaker earned their respect. And Whitaker didn't take a beating from any of them...and Chavez and Ramirez true pressure fighters - Mayweather is not. Whitaker never took a beating until he fought Felix Trinidad late in his career. Why would Floyd give him the beating of his life?

3. He beat De La Hoya in a tougher fight than many expected, albeit, he deserved the win. Whitaker went up to 154 against a prime Julio Cesar Vasquez who was making his 11th defense of his 154 pound title coming off wins over Winky Wright and Javier Castillejo, and Whitaker dominated him winning big on all 3 judges scorecards. Whitaker went up to 154 unscathed as well.

[SUNOF7]

1. If anybody could outbox Floyd, it's Pernell who was always busy, throwing in combinations, moving his upperbody, and sticking out his sharp jab. And yes Floyd could be outboxed...Thomas Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard, and Wilfred Benitez could have outboxed him.

2. Chavez, Ramirez, and Vasquez had chins just as good, if not better than Floyd (Chavez and Ramirez surely had better chins) and Whitaker earned their respect. And Whitaker didn't take a beating from any of them...and Chavez and Ramirez true pressure fighters - Mayweather is not. Whitaker never took a beating until he fought Felix Trinidad late in his career. Why would Floyd give him the beating of his life?

3. He beat De La Hoya in a tougher fight than many expected, albeit, he deserved the win. Whitaker went up to 154 against a prime Julio Cesar Vasquez who was making his 11th defense of his 154 pound title coming off wins over Winky Wright and Javier Castillejo, and Whitaker dominated him winning big on all 3 judges scorecards. Whitaker went up to 154 unscathed as well.


Get your facts straight. Whitaker and Chavez met for the welterweight crown not light middleweight. Mayweather beats Whitaker worse than you think. Mayweather not busy enough??? You are basing that more on how you would prefer to see him fight but he is more than busy enough to be undefeated!!! Whitaker you say will be too busy but that will force Floyd to let his hands go and because Whitaker had no power I see Floyd busting him up. Whitaker had reflexive and instinctive defense, much of it unorthodox- Mayweather's defense is more technical calculated. His defense is better than Whitaker's and see Floyd as the stronger man. No Whitaker tried 154 but he fought and lost to some bum when his shoulder or arm went out... No way the drug abuser beats Floyd Mayweather- people need to stop deifying fighters of the past so much- Whitaker was not invincible

[sweet_scientist]

Get your facts straight. Whitaker and Chavez met for the welterweight crown not light middleweight. Mayweather beats Whitaker worse than you think. Mayweather not busy enough??? You are basing that more on how you would prefer to see him fight but he is more than busy enough to be undefeated!!! Whitaker you say will be too busy but that will force Floyd to let his hands go and because Whitaker had no power I see Floyd busting him up. Whitaker had reflexive and instinctive defense, much of it unorthodox- Mayweather's defense is more technical calculated. His defense is better than Whitaker's and see Floyd as the stronger man. No Whitaker tried 154 but he fought and lost to some bum when his shoulder or arm went out... No way the drug abuser beats Floyd Mayweather- people need to stop deifying fighters of the past so much- Whitaker was not invincible

Welcome to the sport, enjoy the ride :good

[C Money]

:bbb


FLOYD OUTBOXED??? come on man. some of you guys have zero respect for mayweather because he is so good that his fights are boring. just because the opponent is not able to land many punches people hate floyd's style... Whitaker had nothing to keep Mayweather off of him. he might too many's suprise take the beating of his life. PBF has gone to 154 pounds unscathed!!! the guy is a tremendous fighter no matter what people who hate his style say


Hey pal, hate to break it 2 ya, BUT I SAW FLOYD GET HIS ASS outboxed and outfought by a 135 Southpaw lightweight Champ.
Now, it was in the gym, and I've heard every excuse. But I've been around boxing a long time, tasted the ring myself, and KNOW WHAT I SAW. Based on what i saw there?? A prime Whitaker would whip that ass.

When we get to heaven?? Be sure and wager up on ya boy:lol: :good

[brooklyn1550]

Get your facts straight. Whitaker and Chavez met for the welterweight crown not light middleweight. Mayweather beats Whitaker worse than you think. Mayweather not busy enough??? You are basing that more on how you would prefer to see him fight but he is more than busy enough to be undefeated!!! Whitaker you say will be too busy but that will force Floyd to let his hands go and because Whitaker had no power I see Floyd busting him up. Whitaker had reflexive and instinctive defense, much of it unorthodox- Mayweather's defense is more technical calculated. His defense is better than Whitaker's and see Floyd as the stronger man. No Whitaker tried 154 but he fought and lost to some bum when his shoulder or arm went out... No way the drug abuser beats Floyd Mayweather- people need to stop deifying fighters of the past so much- Whitaker was not invincible

You are a fucking idiot...I said Whitaker fought Julio Cesar Vasquez for the 154 pound title when Vasquez was on a roll and schooled him. Can you read? Did you confuse Vasquez with Chavez? You say he tried 154? He won the WBA title very impressively...I suggest you watch the fight. And do this: score Floyd's 1st fight with Castillo that he won and then score Whitaker's 1st fight with Ramirez in which he lost...I bet the margin will be bigger for Whitaker's 1st fight with Ramirez even though he "lost."

Mayweather's defense isn't as good as Whitaker's. Whitaker was like a modern day Willie Pep whereas Floyd employs the shoulder roll ala James Toney. Judah's speed gave Mayweather trouble early on, but Whitaker was much better and didn't fade further into fights. Whitaker's activity and jab would have given Floyd a lot of problems and he wouldn't have been "busted up" like Judah just because Floyd increases the pressure. Floyd would have an even tougher time hitting Whitaker. In fact, if Floyd tried to pressure Whitaker, he would lose even worse.

No way a drug abuser beats Floyd? Aaron Pryor was a drug abuser, Sugar Ray Robinson had a drug problem...could they not beat Floyd? Listen, Floyd is a great fighter, but he wouldn't have beaten Robinson, Armstrong, Whitaker, Leonard, Pryor, and Duran on their best nights.

You should get your fucking facts straight and learn a little bit about boxing history...dumb kid.

[brooklyn1550]

Hey pal, hate to break it 2 ya, BUT I SAW FLOYD GET HIS ASS outboxed and outfought by a 135 Southpaw lightweight Champ.
Now, it was in the gym, and I've heard every excuse. But I've been around boxing a long time, tasted the ring myself, and KNOW WHAT I SAW. Based on what i saw there?? A prime Whitaker would whip that ass.

When we get to heaven?? Be sure and wager up on ya boy:lol: :good

Spadafora right?

[sues2nd]

Spadafora right?

:yep

[igotJUIC3]

this is a tough one...BUT FLoyd wins if the fight is at 140...if you watch at 140 Floyd was very aggressive and he was quicker and stronger at this weight.

They both ahve their defenses and i cant say anyones is better than the other but fact is FLOYDS undefeated no knockdowns and P although he does have a great defense is unorthodox and that is why he has losses and knockdowns. At 140 PBF beats P but its a close one...i dont agree with people saying P is outrgiht a smarter fighter, faster, way better defense, these things are personaly biased because as much as people dislike floyd for whatever reasons....he is one of the best technical smart fighters to come around.

[sues2nd]

this is a tough one...BUT FLoyd wins if the fight is at 140...if you watch at 140 Floyd was very aggressive and he was quicker and stronger at this weight.

They both ahve their defenses and i cant say anyones is better than the other but fact is FLOYDS undefeated no knockdowns and P although he does have a great defense is unorthodox and that is why he has losses and knockdowns. At 140 PBF beats P but its a close one...i dont agree with people saying P is outrgiht a smarter fighter, faster, way better defense, these things are personaly biased because as much as people dislike floyd for whatever reasons....he is one of the best technical smart fighters to come around.

Sorry bro, but Floyd is one of my favorite fighters. But I still think Pea is smarter, faster, way better defensively, etc.

You need to watch more Whitaker fights (they are all over youtube), then go back to this post and hit the "edit" button.

[igotJUIC3]

Sorry bro, but Floyd is one of my favorite fighters. But I still think Pea is smarter, faster, way better defensively, etc.

You need to watch more Whitaker fights (they are all over youtube), then go back to this post and hit the "edit" button.

I mean tell me how can you say P is smarter? Floyd has NO losses NO knock downs.....how has he not been smart in approaching his fights? What makes P smarter....i dont understand that...there is no fight which can state either was smarter than each other, they both were brilliant in the ring.

Now faster..ok...i wont bother with that argument because they both are fast.

You guys kill me with this WAY better defense ....the man has been knock down multiple occasions...now im not saying that means his defense aint great it was...but WAY better than Floyd who has fought tough opponents and took his fare share of punches has no knock downs..even when Castillo was giving it to him in the first fight....i understand P is a All time great...but man the dude had his flaws.

[sues2nd]

I mean tell me how can you say P is smarter? Floyd has NO losses NO knock downs.....how has he not been smart in approaching his fights? What makes P smarter....i dont understand that...there is no fight which can state either was smarter than each other, they both were brilliant in the ring.

Now faster..ok...i wont bother with that argument because they both are fast.

You guys kill me with this WAY better defense ....the man has been knock down multiple occasions...now im not saying that means his defense aint great it was...but WAY better than Floyd who has fought tough opponents and took his fare share of punches has no knock downs..even when Castillo was giving it to him in the first fight....i understand P is a All time great...but man the dude had his flaws.

Okay, go and watch Sweet Pea's fights, like I suggested, but let me answer your posts first.

Lets start with the ring smarts thing. Not many fighters were better at making in-fight adjustments to their gameplan. Go watch the Chavez fight...watch Pernell spend the fight, fighting off his jab retreating, and EVERYTIME Chavez attempted to go on the defensive, even for a second, Sweet Pea immediately turned aggressor. Just one example.

Plus, with experience comes wisdom (sorry to get all fortune cookie on ya). Pernell has fought more fights...fought more championship fights...fought better competition...held more titles...etc. He KNEW what to do in any situation. He was a master at outthinking his opponent.

Okay, now onto the next thing. Yes, Floyd is fast...very fast. And it is close. But if you watch the speed on Pernell's jabs and combinations, you can see the difference. And thats without mentioning how fast Pernell moved defensively, his upper body and head movement was ridiculously fast.

Which leads me to your next thing.

Pernell Whitaker is widely considered the BEST DEFENSIVE FIGHTER OF ALL TIME! Floyd is widely considered one of the best defensive fighters on this generation (I have him 2nd or third behind Hopkins and about even with Wright..with Toney slightly behind the rest of them). And while Pernell proved that defense against fighters named Chavez, Nelson, McGirt, Vazquez, Prime DLH (and not prime Pea), Ramirez, etc. Floyd did it against much lesser opponents.

Now onto your point about Pernell being knocked down.

Going on that thought, the fighter with the greatest defense ever MUST be Oliver McCall. He has never touched the canvas, dispite fighting Lewis, Holmes, Tucker, Douglas, Norris, Seldon, Maskaev, etc. Though we ALL know that aint true. Ability to not be knocked down messures chin..not defense.

And if you really have seen ANY of those knockdowns, you would know that most (all except the one vs Mayweather) were flash knockdowns where Pernell was offbalance from contorting himself in every which way slipping punches. None had anything to do with his defense.

Now onto the losses.

Well, the Ramirez one was a shut out...cant deny that one. :oops: Only problem was it was a shutout WIN for Whitaker. This fight is considered by most to be one of the worst robberies in the HISTORY OF THE SPORT (right up there with RJJ at the olympics...god that one still makes me sick).

Then the Chavez draw...go to the main page of this section of the forums and find the Whitaker - Ramirez post...we speak at length about the Chavez fight. Then go to the last page and watch the fight and score it for yourself (I posted the whole fight...even read my round by round). That fight was a blowout win for Sweet Pea.

Then there is the DLH fight. Where Whitaker threw more punches, landed more punches (all at a higher %) and even dropped Oscar once. Tho still did not get the decision. That fight WAS a close fight, I will admit that, BUT a clear UD for Sweet Pea...if the fight was scored correctly (Clean punching, defense, effective aggression and ring generalship).

Then there was the Tito loss (in which Tito won by far..impossible to argue that). Which was an old, past it, drug abused, right out of rehab Pernell Whitaker...that was not Sweet Pea. And he still gave Tito hell in that fight.

So if we look at it that way....

That is 15 years without a VALID loss. That is longer than Mayweather's career.

That is 42 fights...again longer than Mayweather's career.

Now your question of us thinking Pernell was perfect. NO, he was a very light hitter, who used his blazing speed and terrific accuracy to make up for it. He also tended to play with fighters much lower than his level, making alot blowout fights look closer than they should have.

And again, I personally HATE to do posts like this, because as I said, Floyd is one of my favorite fighters. But just because I like the guy, that doesnt make me blind.

I hope this helped further educate you in this fine sport we call boxing. Now as I said, go to youtube, find some Sweet Pea fights. You will thank me.

In fact here is a fantastic highlight video of him to get ya started.

yjTHLPmfBCQ

And your welcome. :good

[brooklyn1550]

Here's another good video

PD5rx0OdyDA


Here's a link to another
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[C Money]

Spadafora right?

Yes, but every time, I say the name?? It's like having to re-argue incident. The bottom line?? Floyd got outboxed by a slick southpaw and a Prime Whitaker would TAP THAT ASS:good IMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[C Money]

I mean tell me how can you say P is smarter? Floyd has NO losses NO knock downs.....how has he not been smart in approaching his fights? What makes P smarter....i dont understand that...there is no fight which can state either was smarter than each other, they both were brilliant in the ring.

Now faster..ok...i wont bother with that argument because they both are fast.

You guys kill me with this WAY better defense ....the man has been knock down multiple occasions...now im not saying that means his defense aint great it was...but WAY better than Floyd who has fought tough opponents and took his fare share of punches has no knock downs..even when Castillo was giving it to him in the first fight....i understand P is a All time great...but man the dude had his flaws.

Every man has flaws!! A prime Whitaker is at 35 not 40 and there? Whitaker dogs Floyd. Foyd AVOIDED the toughest opponents at 35, 40, and 47 crafting an undefeated record, including the said southpaw that whipped his ass in the gym at 35.

Floyd's greatness, is yet to be PROVEN!! Let's see him face the Hatton's, SSM, Cotto, and Margarito winner, then tell us how wonderful, Mr. Wonderful is.

[brooklyn1550]

Floyd is probably the greatest 130 pounder of all time (you can make a case for Arguello though)

At 135, he had a questionable decision against Castillo, but came back strong, so good resume at lightweight.

At 140, he beat Corley, Gatti, and Bruselles - hardly world beaters.

At 147, he beat Judah (who was coming off a loss) and Baldomir (the Ring champion, but not a great fighter). Yes, he won the IBF and WBC, but he is not a great welterweight.

At 154, he has beaten De La Hoya who is a future HOFer so great win there.


Bottom line, Floyd has a long way to go to become a legendary great like Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Armstrong, Pep, Greb, or Benny Leonard. He has only fought 1 great fighter (De La Hoya) and won, so credit there, but compared to the guys I mentioned, his resume is no where near as great.

He is a future hall of famer already, and with wins over Hatton, Mosley, Cotto, and Margarito/Williams, he will have proved to be a legendary great in my book.

[brooklyn1550]

The Pea was definitely a fucking magician, don't get me wrong - but the Oscar comparison is null and void - the Oscar that Pea fought was primarily a one handed fighter who hadn't really gone through the tough competition that he had done by the time he got to Floyd.

Pea lacked severely in power, Floyd showed in both the Judah and Oscar fights that he can take a punch as well as slip it

Floyd has faster hands, you guys can disbelieve that all you want - while Pernell fires more flurries, especially to the body, Floyd would put most of his opponents down if he had a chance to do it.

Floyd isn't going to be slipped all night like De La Hoya among others were in that clip above, Floyd has sharper punches than anyone the Pea faced.

Pea would lose a decision to Floyd, and I don't even like Floyd Mayweather, I just see the truth.

The Oscar that fought Sweet Pea was faster, lighter on his toes, and fresher.

[igotJUIC3]

Okay, go and watch Sweet Pea's fights, like I suggested, but let me answer your posts first.

Lets start with the ring smarts thing. Not many fighters were better at making in-fight adjustments to their gameplan. Go watch the Chavez fight...watch Pernell spend the fight, fighting off his jab retreating, and EVERYTIME Chavez attempted to go on the defensive, even for a second, Sweet Pea immediately turned aggressor. Just one example.

Plus, with experience comes wisdom (sorry to get all fortune cookie on ya). Pernell has fought more fights...fought more championship fights...fought better competition...held more titles...etc. He KNEW what to do in any situation. He was a master at outthinking his opponent.

Okay, now onto the next thing. Yes, Floyd is fast...very fast. And it is close. But if you watch the speed on Pernell's jabs and combinations, you can see the difference. And thats without mentioning how fast Pernell moved defensively, his upper body and head movement was ridiculously fast.

Which leads me to your next thing.

Pernell Whitaker is widely considered the BEST DEFENSIVE FIGHTER OF ALL TIME! Floyd is widely considered one of the best defensive fighters on this generation (I have him 2nd or third behind Hopkins and about even with Wright..with Toney slightly behind the rest of them). And while Pernell proved that defense against fighters named Chavez, Nelson, McGirt, Vazquez, Prime DLH (and not prime Pea), Ramirez, etc. Floyd did it against much lesser opponents.

Now onto your point about Pernell being knocked down.

Going on that thought, the fighter with the greatest defense ever MUST be Oliver McCall. He has never touched the canvas, dispite fighting Lewis, Holmes, Tucker, Douglas, Norris, Seldon, Maskaev, etc. Though we ALL know that aint true. Ability to not be knocked down messures chin..not defense.

And if you really have seen ANY of those knockdowns, you would know that most (all except the one vs Mayweather) were flash knockdowns where Pernell was offbalance from contorting himself in every which way slipping punches. None had anything to do with his defense.

Now onto the losses.

Well, the Ramirez one was a shut out...cant deny that one. :oops: Only problem was it was a shutout WIN for Whitaker. This fight is considered by most to be one of the worst robberies in the HISTORY OF THE SPORT (right up there with RJJ at the olympics...god that one still makes me sick).

Then the Chavez draw...go to the main page of this section of the forums and find the Whitaker - Ramirez post...we speak at length about the Chavez fight. Then go to the last page and watch the fight and score it for yourself (I posted the whole fight...even read my round by round). That fight was a blowout win for Sweet Pea.

Then there is the DLH fight. Where Whitaker threw more punches, landed more punches (all at a higher %) and even dropped Oscar once. Tho still did not get the decision. That fight WAS a close fight, I will admit that, BUT a clear UD for Sweet Pea...if the fight was scored correctly (Clean punching, defense, effective aggression and ring generalship).

Then there was the Tito loss (in which Tito won by far..impossible to argue that). Which was an old, past it, drug abused, right out of rehab Pernell Whitaker...that was not Sweet Pea. And he still gave Tito hell in that fight.

So if we look at it that way....

That is 15 years without a VALID loss. That is longer than Mayweather's career.

That is 42 fights...again longer than Mayweather's career.

Now your question of us thinking Pernell was perfect. NO, he was a very light hitter, who used his blazing speed and terrific accuracy to make up for it. He also tended to play with fighters much lower than his level, making alot blowout fights look closer than they should have.

And again, I personally HATE to do posts like this, because as I said, Floyd is one of my favorite fighters. But just because I like the guy, that doesnt make me blind.

I hope this helped further educate you in this fine sport we call boxing. Now as I said, go to youtube, find some Sweet Pea fights. You will thank me.

In fact here is a fantastic highlight video of him to get ya started.

yjTHLPmfBCQ

And your welcome. :good

Man your obviously a big P fan....but fact is there losses no matter how you cut it....You said P is regarded as the best defense and floyd is second....man come on 1st and second come on man they void each other basically if there that good....you gave me one fight in which P i guess shows his ring smarts and im sure he has more but floyd makes great adjustments as well....case and point Castillo which was close but he did what he had to in the judges eyes which is all that matters, even against Zab he got jumped on in the early rounds and still swept the later rounds for a UD, against oscar HE VOIDED THE LEFT HOOK all the while making an aggressive Oscar looking old....(he really beat ODH UD IMO should not be SD).

It would be a good ass fight but Floyd is one of the best all around technicians not just now but ever...not THE best but one of them....and that is not said just by me most analys concur as i think you would to...so how Pernell just out right will beat Floyd....i dont see nor imagine.

[sues2nd]

Man your obviously a big P fan....but fact is there losses no matter how you cut it....You said P is regarded as the best defense and floyd is second....man come on 1st and second come on man they void each other basically if there that good....you gave me one fight in which P i guess shows his ring smarts and im sure he has more but floyd makes great adjustments as well....case and point Castillo which was close but he did what he had to in the judges eyes which is all that matters, even against Zab he got jumped on in the early rounds and still swept the later rounds for a UD, against oscar HE VOIDED THE LEFT HOOK all the while making an aggressive Oscar looking old....(he really beat ODH UD IMO should not be SD).

It would be a good ass fight but Floyd is one of the best all around technicians not just now but ever...not THE best but one of them....and that is not said just by me most analys concur as i think you would to...so how Pernell just out right will beat Floyd....i dont see nor imagine.

DO YOU EVEN READ!!!

I said Pernell is considered the best defensive fighter EVER....in other words of ALL TIME!

I said Floyd is the 2nd best RIGHT NOW. In other words current fighters (Hops defense is much better).

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

There is a HUGE gap between Pernell's defense and Floyd's...its ridiculous to even say different.

I really dont think you have ever seen Sweet Pea fight (maybe the ODLH one....but thats about it.).

Go back and really read my post. Your not making sense.

Oh and to say a robbery loss is still a loss is also stupid. By your logic, I could go and steal your car and it would be considered mine. Make some sense......AND GO WATCH A FEW WHITAKER FIGHTS BEFORE YOU EMBARRASS YOURSELF AGAIN!

[Robbi]

The Pea was definitely a fucking magician, don't get me wrong - but the Oscar comparison is null and void - the Oscar that Pea fought was primarily a one handed fighter who hadn't really gone through the tough competition that he had done by the time he got to Floyd.

Pea lacked severely in power, Floyd showed in both the Judah and Oscar fights that he can take a punch as well as slip it

Floyd has faster hands, you guys can disbelieve that all you want - while Pernell fires more flurries, especially to the body, Floyd would put most of his opponents down if he had a chance to do it.

Floyd isn't going to be slipped all night like De La Hoya among others were in that clip above, Floyd has sharper punches than anyone the Pea faced.

Pea would lose a decision to Floyd, and I don't even like Floyd Mayweather, I just see the truth.

Oscar has always been a one handed fighter. Not just against against Whitaker 10 years ago, but also against Mayweather 2 months ago. De La Hoya's right hand has never been a potent weapon at any point in his career.

The De La Hoya of 10 years ago was not as experienced as the version who fought Mayweather, but his stamina was much better. He always closed the show when going into the late rounds, especially against Molina and Gonzalez. His handspeed was faster 10 years ago.

[huki]

Robbi, sues2nd, and Sweet Pea.. there's no way to convince these guys that Whitaker would beat Floyd. They see Floyd's resume with the 0 losses and titles in 5 weight classes and see how Floyd dominated many fighters, but they don't see what made Whitaker's career amazing and how good his skills were against great competition because he's a fighter "of the past" (the 90's? :lol:).

I'm not gonna talk about their skills because they have already been discussed enough in this thread. Let me just compare their careers. Floyd's career so far doesn't even come close to how impressive Whitaker's career was. It's not Floyd's fault that he didn't have the same level of competition as Whitaker yet, but he will be able to improve his legacy if he continues to fight, especially since the future of the 140-154 weight divisions is looking good.

Whitaker's career is unbelievable. It can easily be said that he didn't lose a fight until getting KO'ed by Tito, way past his prime. There's no point of mentioning the Ramirez and Chavez fights.. just plain robberies. Floyd is lucky his fights were never scored completely wrong (except for the Tom Kaczmarek score in the Oscar fight). The Oscar loss is one of the most impressive parts of Whitaker's career. Whether you think he won or lost isn't important, just the fact that the fight is controversial and was very close should be recognized as a major accomplishment for him and his legacy. Whether you think that the Oscar that already held multiple titles in multiple divisions and had a very strong/successful amateur career was "green" or not doesn't matter. Anyone with a brain can understand that Oscar was way way way more prime than Whitaker was and he lost the fight in many people's eyes/had a close fight in everybody's eyes.

Floyd's legacy doesn't compare to Whitaker's yet. You can say his skills do compare to him, but I think Whitaker did most things at least slightly better than PBF. Anyways, I think PBF would lose a very clear decision, but I didn't want this post to be about their skills. I just wanted to compare their careers.. even though someone like blocky still wouldn't understand. Oh well.

[huki]

Good post, except Whitaker didn't get KO'd by Tito, he lost by decision.
God damnitt. Right when I thought I was sounding smart I fuck up on this.. I just watched the whole fight on youtube a few months ago too. :-(

[omega dega Doom]

God damnitt. Right when I thought I was sounding smart I fuck up on this.. I just watched the whole fight on youtube a few months ago too. :-(LOL, you said it well homie!:happy

[Prime Director]

First, watch Sweet P vs Chavez.

Then, watch PBF vs Castillo I.

PBF couldn't even beat Chavez's sparing partner.

Sweet P UD 12 PBF