George Foreman ~VS~ Earnie Shavers

[ThePlugInBabies]

probably the two biggest hitters in HW history, so does earnie have any hope here? or does he simply get smashed out by the harder chinned foreman? or can earnie pull off an upset with his equally freakish punching power?

would it be over in the blink of any eye or would we get a good 5/6 rounds of vicious slugging?

[McGrain]

Freakishly, Foreman is a better boxer than Shavers. It's for that reason that he'd get Shavers early, rather than any other.

[ThePlugInBabies]

Freakishly, Foreman is a better boxer than Shavers. It's for that reason that he'd get Shavers early, rather than any other.

i must admit, much to my shame, i've seen very little of earnie. one of those fighters i've been meaning to catch up on for ages but haven't got round to yet.

[McGrain]

i must admit, much to my shame, i've seen very little of earnie. one of those fighters i've been meaning to catch up on for ages but haven't got round to yet.

People are in love with him because every now and again he'll just whang! one in. But I find his matching with ATG fighters a bit distasteful.

This one would sure shift a few pay per views though.

[Zakman]

Shavers could hit hard, but he didn't take a very good punch, particularly from the better fighters. He might put Foreman on the canvas, but in the end, he'd be the one who went down for the count. Could be another Foreman-Lyle, or it could be a quick bomb-out ala Shavers fight with Quarry. Either way, Big George wins convincingly.

[MagnificentMatt]

i must admit, much to my shame, i've seen very little of earnie. one of those fighters i've been meaning to catch up on for ages but haven't got round to yet.

Same here, but i've heard things about his chin that... Well dont exactly sound promising in a fight with Big George..

[Zakman]

Same here, but i've heard things about his chin that... Well dont exactly sound promising in a fight with Big George..

What you've heard is true. Shavers did not have the greatest chin. Not glass, but nowhere near as sturdy as Foreman's. That would be the difference in this fight, imo - they both hit hard, but Foreman took the much better punch.

[Woddy]

This is a bad fight for Shavers. Even though I respect Earnie, I think George takes him out early. Foreman had the style and power to dominate quickley.

Foreman by KO within 2.

[brooklyn1550]

Foreman by early KO

[JohnBKelly]

George all the way, watch Quarry v Shavers and you just know George would crush Earnie.

[janitor]

George all the way, watch Quarry v Shavers and you just know George would crush Earnie.

I think George would take longer to do it than Quarry because he was less methodical in his punching and would leave himself open to counters.

Big George is going to win but I could see it being an interesting if short fight.

[Bill1234]

Earnie's chin would be the main factor in the fight. IMO it wouldn't hold up against Foreman's shots, but when he isn't down, you would see some wild swining. If he had Ron Lyle's chin, then IMO it would be a better slug fest than Lyle-Foreman.

[Woddy]

I think George would take longer to do it than Quarry because he was less methodical in his punching and would leave himself open to counters.

Big George is going to win but I could see it being an interesting if short fight.

Depends,

If Foreman comes out slamming away like he did against Norton and Frazier, then I'm not sure that Shavers is making out of the first round. IF Earnie is fortunate enough to land a few of his patented rights early, then he might extend the fight a little, as George may decide to show him a bit more respect, but if George catches him first, then its going to be a very short night for Shavers.

[Dempsey1238]

I like Foreman in 3 rounds or less.

[Holmes' Jab]

Shavers could hit hard, but he didn't take a very good punch, particularly from the better fighters. He might put Foreman on the canvas, but in the end, he'd be the one who went down for the count. Could be another Foreman-Lyle, or it could be a quick bomb-out ala Shavers fight with Quarry. Either way, Big George wins convincingly.


I agree with your summary, Foreman wins by brutal KO whenever he chooses. I honestly think he'd land heavily early on and finish matters sometime before the 4th, Earnie couldn't last long in survival mode in this case.


Ps: Shavers chin wasn't much cop at all really: sub-par would be an apt description. Lewis is accused by some of having a weak chin, yet it was definitely sturdier over the course of his career than Ernie's was (which you describe as 'solid'). In addition Lennox took heavier punches without going down. I challenge you (as a Lewis detractor) to state otherwise (something which would be highly inaccurate). ;)

[Titan1]

Foreman has Shavers out by the fourth round.

[Kid Greasy]

Foreman would easily flatten Shavers,no real fight in that match-up. Ah but Foreman vs Lyle II if you could turn back time now your talking. I would like to see the Foreman, Lyle fight re-broadcast on Showtime or HBO it would have a big drawn with the right promoting.

[Duodenum]

Shavers may have been the one fighter with the power necessary to flatten the mature Foreman with a single punch. Keeping George there would be another matter. Earnie wasn't a particularly good combination puncher, and was somewhat lacking in killer instinct. For all his artillery, he left much to be desired as a finisher.

In a hypothetical slugfest between the hardest chin and hardest punch, the immovable object prevails over the "irresistable force" (such as which there has never been in boxing).

Although Earnie could hurt and drop Foreman, I don't think George would have given him the chance. He'd take a page out of Quarry's book to swarm him, using his immense physical strength to shove Shavers into retreat, and simply pin him in a corner, keeping him there until the referee intervened.

Foreman/Lyle, while certainly a wild brawl, also saw Ron able to bring his power into play by supporting it with a measure of skill Earnie never developed. It is somewhat unfortunate for boxing fans that George never had the experience of getting clobbered by Earnie. If Foreman feels that it should be illegal for anybody to be able to punch as hard as Lyle and himself, what might he have said about how Shavers could hit?

[JohnThomas1]

Shavers may have been the one fighter with the power necessary to flatten the mature Foreman with a single punch. Keeping George there would be another matter. Earnie wasn't a particularly good combination puncher, and was somewhat lacking in killer instinct. For all his artillery, he left much to be desired as a finisher.

In a hypothetical slugfest between the hardest chin and hardest punch, the immovable object prevails over the "irresistable force" (such as which there has never been in boxing).

Although Earnie could hurt and drop Foreman, I don't think George would have given him the chance. He'd take a page out of Quarry's book to swarm him, using his immense physical strength to shove Shavers into retreat, and simply pin him in a corner, keeping him there until the referee intervened.

Foreman/Lyle, while certainly a wild brawl, also saw Ron able to bring his power into play by supporting it with a measure of skill Earnie never developed. It is somewhat unfortunate for boxing fans that George never had the experience of getting clobbered by Earnie. If Foreman feels that it should be illegal for anybody to be able to punch as hard as Lyle and himself, what might he have said about how Shavers could hit?
Excellent post. All i'd add is that i think Foreman would leave Earnie on the canvas as opposed to the ref intervening. As a fan it's a pity this fight didn't ever happen, but deep down i'm sorta not that sad it didn't. Big fan of Earnie in many many ways.

[mr. magoo]

I find it interesting how people constantly make reference to the Lyle fight, when commenting on George's chin and how he'd do against other punchers. What people don't always recognize, is that Lyle scored the knockdowns against Foreman primarily by counter punching, and hence a lot of the power was being supplied by George as he was walking in. That fight was neither a reflection of Lyle being a hard hitter nor George having chin issues. That said, I wouldn't even give Shavers a puncher's chance. He was mainly an attacker, and not a counter puncher, plus sometimes started poorly against some of his better foes. George would be the one that I'd pick to launch an onslought first, and I'd be very surprised if Earnie survived to see the end of round 1.

[jowcol]

A pre-Ali Foreman would have blown out Lyle early and not gotten hit with bombs. I fail to see why so many bring up the Lyle fight when attempting to match a "prime" George up with anyone mythically.
I honestly don't see George getting knocked out by anyone except out of sheer exhaustion.
Shavers would get fried early.

P.S. Quarry would get fried early.

[mr. magoo]

A pre-Ali Foreman would have blown out Lyle early and not gotten hit with bombs. I fail to see why so many bring up the Lyle fight when attempting to match a "prime" George up with anyone mythically.
I honestly don't see George getting knocked out by anyone except out of sheer exhaustion.
Shavers would get fried early.

P.S. Quarry would get fried early.

Agreed for the most part. Although stylistically Lyle may still have given him some trouble, but its certainly plausible that a 1973 Foreman may have beaten him a bit quicker than a 1975 ( post Ali ) version.

[Duodenum]

I find it interesting how people constantly make reference to the Lyle fight, when commenting on George's chin and how he'd do against other punchers. What people don't always recognize, is that Lyle scored the knockdowns against Foreman primarily by counter punching, and hence a lot of the power was being supplied by George as he was walking in. That fight was neither a reflection of Lyle being a hard hitter nor George having chin issues. That said, I wouldn't even give Shavers a puncher's chance. He was mainly an attacker, and not a counter puncher, plus sometimes started poorly against some of his better foes.Therefore, my previous comment about Lyle exercising a measure of skill which Earnie never developed.

When I consider Ron as a power puncher, it's mainly based on what success he had against George, combined with the comments both Foreman and Caldwell made about how hard Lyle hit, although Ron also wobbled LeDoux repeatedly, at a time when the Frenchman was rather difficult to stun.

It's hard to imagine anybody starting faster than George did in roaring out of his corner to nearly plow down Kirkman back on his own stool. Earnie may well have needed the referee to break Jimmy Ellis away from him in order to deliver the uppercut which eliminated Jimmy, so your point about Shavers sometimes starting poorly is well taken. Without the referee's involvement, Earnie probably would have ended that first round as the loser.

Although I'm convinced that Earnie could have dropped Foreman if he hit George the way Cooney did, I doubt Foreman would have afforded Shavers the opportunity to bring his power into play. While Earnie did produce an exciting win over Tiger Williams (with Foreman and Norton in attendance), Roy's height did pose some difficulty for Shavers in scoring up top, a challenge the tall boxing Big George would also pose. (Earnie's dominance of Tiger was based largely on his right to his huge target's body.) Shavers did not soak up punishment well, certainly not the way Ali and Frazier could.

[mr. magoo]

Therefore, my previous comment about Lyle exercising a measure of skill which Earnie never developed.

When I consider Ron as a power puncher, it's mainly based on what success he had against George, combined with the comments both Foreman and Caldwell made about how hard Lyle hit, although Ron also wobbled LeDoux repeatedly, at a time when the Frenchman was rather difficult to stun.

It's hard to imagine anybody starting faster than George did in roaring out of his corner to nearly plow down Kirkman back on his own stool. Earnie may well have needed the referee to break Jimmy Ellis away from him in order to deliver the uppercut which eliminated Jimmy, so your point about Shavers sometimes starting poorly is well taken. Without the referee's involvement, Earnie probably would have ended that first round as the loser.

Although I'm convinced that Earnie could have dropped Foreman if he hit George the way Cooney did, I doubt Foreman would have afforded Shavers the opportunity to bring his power into play. While Earnie did produce an exciting win over Tiger Williams (with Foreman and Norton in attendance), Roy's height did pose some difficulty for Shavers in scoring up top, a challenge the tall boxing Big George would also pose. (Earnie's dominance of Tiger was based largely on his right to his huge target's body.) Shavers did not soak up punishment well, certainly not the way Ali and Frazier could.

This is a good post, and we seem to agree that Foreman should be favored to take this one early.

As for the Lyle issue, there really is no argument that could support him being a power puncher. His biggest wins came via decision, while many of his KO's were either against mediocrities by TKO, or knockouts caused by the other guy walking into his shots. He had a decent punch but was no knockout artist. As for Foreman's testimony of Lyle's power, well, George said shit like that all the time. Everytime someone showed that they had even so much as a heartbeat against him the compliments would start spewing " he was the greatest boxer I ever faced" or " That man hit harder than anyone I've ever been hit by " or " he was the toughest fighter I've ever seen ".

[Duodenum]

Excellent post. All i'd add is that i think Foreman would leave Earnie on the canvas as opposed to the ref intervening. As a fan it's a pity this fight didn't ever happen, but deep down i'm sorta not that sad it didn't. Big fan of Earnie in many many ways.My supposition that the referee would have intervened is largely based on the fact that Shavers rarely had a referee count ten over him. It happened against Big Ron Stander, and in his classic battle of attrition against Lyle.

Earnie did keep his feet against the light hitting, but big and super strong Tex Cobb, and also was standing at the end against murderous hitting Bernado Mercado. Holmes never had him down, at a point in Larry's career when he took out Evangelista with a single right, destroyed Weaver with one uppercut, and nearly had Ocasio down and out with his jab. (Shavers ate about 60 of those jabs from Holmes in round two of their rematch alone.)

Of course he could easily wind up getting counted out against George. I'm choosing to give Earnie the benefit of a doubt here, and guess that he'd manage to get off the deck, and be covering up in a corner when the referee decides enough is enough.

[mr. magoo]

destroyed Weaver with one uppercut, .

Holmes didn't exactly destroy Weaver with one uppercut per say. He floored him with that punch in the 11th round of a very grueling and tiring fight for both men. Weaver rose to beat the count, and fought Holmes into the 12th round, where a controversial stoppage took place against the ropes.

[Duodenum]

Holmes didn't exactly destroy Weaver with one uppercut per say. He floored him with that punch in the 11th round of a very grueling and tiring fight for both men. Weaver rose to beat the count, and fought Holmes into the 12th round, where a controversial stoppage took place against the ropes.It was remarkable that Hercules got up, but also remarkable that he hadn't recovered after a full rest period.

I agree that his bouts against Weaver and Snipes were stopped prematurely. Those were championship fights, and Holmes certainly did nothing like landing the 46 consecutive unanswered punches which Ali delivered against Lyle. "Destroy" might be hyperbole, but Weaver had not recovered from that uppercut by the end, and likely wasn't going to if a 60 second rest period hadn't been sufficient time to clear his head.

[Vantage_West]

as much as a powerful puncher shavers once foreman is regarded as the hardest hitting heavywieght champion of all time.

shaver couldnt take a punch and didnt have the dramatic stamina that you would need agaisnt foreman.

mos def a foreman win any other way is wrong.

foreman is iron jawed...actually very hard hurt or stun he will take punishment. but foreman is just too big has a long jab a good punch and a better amount of skills than shavers(yeha i said it george has better skills).

george by ko any round but pretty much early rounds

[Maxmomer]

as much as a powerful puncher shavers once foreman is regarded as the hardest hitting heavywieght champion of all time.

Most who fought them both said Shavers hit harder.

[Bummy Davis]

Foreman could be hit by Shavers and hurt, but Earnie did not have the best whiskers and stamina and I could see every punch including the jab hurting Earnie, the guy that beats Foreman in a slugfest needs a solid chin, good recup powers and the better the power the better chance to get George out of there but this fight would not go 5

[Langford]

It is better to give than to receive. Shavers could give a punch, put he couldn't take one as well. Foreman could do both. Shavers does not see the end of the third.

[RoccoMarciano]

I think Foreman would win by KO, however, I sometimes wonder if Foreman had the world's best chin. Never mind, Foreman wins in under 4 rounds, hopefully.

[Curtis Lowe]

I think George would take longer to do it than Quarry because he was less methodical in his punching and would leave himself open to counters.

Big George is going to win but I could see it being an interesting if short fight.

Does anyone have footage of this fight? YouTube perhaps?

[Curtis Lowe]

Foreman KO 1. Bad, bad style matchup for Earnie.

[achillesthegreat]

I honestly think Foreman would blow Shavers away. Shavers at best can hurt/drop Foreman early but I'm not sure if he could pull off a Lyle like performance. Even if he did, Foreman was tough and would keep ploughing away until he got the victory. If someone gets into a tough fight with George they need to be able to box a bit to see it through to the end plus they need to be tough and elite.