Jake LaMotta vs. Rodrigo Valdez 15 rds.

[dpw417]

The Puncher versus The Chin. Two greats who gave the ATG's all they wanted.
15 rounds.

[JohnThomas1]

Lamotta via decision.

[Luigi1985]

LaMotta´s pace would be the main factor here, and Rodrigo didn´t have the power (but who had it at 160 lbs? :D ) to KO Jake, so I see a LaMotta UD... (9-6)

[red cobra]

Valdez gets underrated so much! Rodrigo had the power to stop Bennie Briscoe with one shot in 1974. He had perhaps as much power as any middleweight in history, and all the skills go along with it, as so many people forget, that he had an excellent chance of hurting, and even decking La Motta.

[Bummy Davis]

Lamotta UD 15

[Minotauro]

Valdez via decision I think he has the speed to land often and powerfully on LaMotta and Jakes's power wouldn't trouble him the only people who troubled Valdez were boxers not brawlers.

[Manassa]

Valdez wins this not because of his startling power (although that would certainly jolt LaMotta on several occasions) but because he was just too good all-round. He had a far better mix of offence and defence, his combinations were sharp, he was just a smoother operator with all the physical prowess to stay with LaMotta until the end. Valdez is too good for LaMotta just like Esteban De Jesus would be too good for Lew Tendler, like Luis Rodriguez would be too good for Carmen Basilio and like Harold Johnson would be too good for Dwight Qawi.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Valdez gets underrated so much! Rodrigo had the power to stop Bennie Briscoe with one shot in 1974. He had perhaps as much power as any middleweight in history, and all the skills go along with it, as so many people forget, that he had an excellent chance of hurting, and even decking La Motta.


I agree. Although I don't think he would stop Jake, he'd land cleanly enough to earn a close decision. Valdes: 144-142.

[Manassa]

I can see it in my head - Valdez' jarring shots really affecting LaMotta and forcing him back. Overall, LaMotta was better than Bennie Briscoe - quicker, harder working, defensively slightly better (this is a prime '40s LaMotta) - but was he really that much more durable? Because Briscoe had an A class chin, and Valdez cracked him. I'm not saying LaMotta would get knocked out or even dropped, but I can see him being forced back and hurt - the punches he'd be facing carried a lot more force than Robinson's whipping, slashing shots that seemed to almost bounce off. Valdez' slower but stronger uppercuts and hooks would sink right in.

[dpw417]

Valdez wins this not because of his startling power (although that would certainly jolt LaMotta on several occasions) but because he was just too good all-round. He had a far better mix of offence and defence, his combinations were sharp, he was just a smoother operator with all the physical prowess to stay with LaMotta until the end. Valdez is too good for LaMotta just like Esteban De Jesus would be too good for Lew Tendler, like Luis Rodriguez would be too good for Carmen Basilio and like Harold Johnson would be too good for Dwight Qawi.
Good assessment. But I respectfully disagree. Valdez was a smoother operator (that is the one reason I like SRR head to head so much in fantasy fights). Valdez was trained by on e of the best in Clancy (who had a serious stable of fighters at thattime) Valdez despite a relatively short stay at the top...Three fights with Briscoe and two with Monzon might take your career away...Valdez was top notch in the fights I've seen...(Briscoe 2, and Monzon 1&2) However,I think Jake gets sold short on being a pressure boxer....the impression is that he is an anvil everyone beats on is false! In the robinson fight (6th)In the early going He demonstrated avery good left jab and head movement....He impressed me...BUT Robinson was setting the trap
Very tough to pick..... LaMotta if he is at his manical best wins via decison...If he is not at his best (which his record might suggest)Valdez by dec
Consistancy means alot.

[Manassa]

Good assessment. But I respectfully disagree. Valdez was a smoother operator (that is the one reason I like SRR head to head so much in fantasy fights). Valdez was trained by on e of the best in Clancy (who had a serious stable of fighters at thattime) Valdez despite a relatively short stay at the top...Three fights with Briscoe and two with Monzon might take your career away...Valdez was top notch in the fights I've seen...(Briscoe 2, and Monzon 1&2) However,I think Jake gets sold short on being a pressure boxer....the impression is that he is an anvil everyone beats on is false! In the robinson fight (6th)In the early going He demonstrated avery good left jab and head movement....He impressed me...BUT Robinson was setting the trap
Very tough to pick..... LaMotta if he is at his manical best wins via decison...If he is not at his best (which his record might suggest)Valdez by dec
Consistancy means alot.

I understand that LaMotta was no anvil - well he was, but quite an adept one. His subtle head movements go unnoticed a lot of the time, much like Rocky Marciano's - but as with Marciano, he could be hit. And Valdez hit hard and often (his combinations were excellent in the Briscoe knockout as you'll know). I just think he'd land enough and avoid enough to take it. Good fight though.

[dpw417]

I can see it in my head - Valdez' jarring shots really affecting LaMotta and forcing him back. Overall, LaMotta was better than Bennie Briscoe - quicker, harder working, defensively slightly better (this is a prime '40s LaMotta) - but was he really that much more durable? Because Briscoe had an A class chin, and Valdez cracked him. I'm not saying LaMotta would get knocked out or even dropped, but I can see him being forced back and hurt - the punches he'd be facing carried a lot more force than Robinson's whipping, slashing shots that seemed to almost bounce off. Valdez' slower but stronger uppercuts and hooks would sink right in.
I tried to get a response on another post re Robinson's power and delivery of combinations vs. Valdez's capabilities of the same....Who is the more effective offensive fighter?
I think Valdez would defintely rock LaMotta as well. I don't see a stoppage however.

[red cobra]

People tend to forget that if it weren't for Carlos Monzon, you'd be talking about Rodrigo Valdez as one of the greatest of all middleweight champions. He had it all, and just prior to meeting Monzon, he was a spectacular fighter, with power, catlike moves, and cunning. He was unfortunate to be in the same era as Monzon, the best middleweight champion of all and one of the elite thinking fighters of all time.

[Manassa]

Who is the more effective offensive fighter - Robinson or Valdez?

In a pound-for-pound sense it's hard to go against Robinson, but at 160lbs? I'm undecided. If there was an object in front of each of them, I think Valdez would destroy it more comprehensively, however, he might not be able to land a sweet shot quite as sudden and shocking as Robinson's on Fullmer. Fullmer might have been able to smother Valdez, make him mix it up inside and last the distance.

[dpw417]

People tend to forget that if it weren't for Carlos Monzon, you'd be talking about Rodrigo Valdez as one of the greatest of all middleweight champions. He had it all, and just prior to meeting Monzon, he was a spectacular fighter, with power, catlike moves, and cunning. He was unfortunate to be in the same era as Monzon, the best middleweight champion of all and one of the elite thinking fighters of all time.
No debate here about Valdez...I'd like to see some of his earlier fights...and Monzon was phenomenal...however
As middleweights go, I'll take SRR.

[dpw417]

In a pound-for-pound sense it's hard to go against Robinson, but at 160lbs? I'm undecided. If there was an object in front of each of them, I think Valdez would destroy it more comprehensively, however, he might not be able to land a sweet shot quite as sudden and shocking as Robinson's on Fullmer. Fullmer might have been able to smother Valdez, make him mix it up inside and last the distance.
I'm undecided as well...Just an opinion but Valdez, problably hit harder than Robinson. Power with valdez, timing and speed with SRR...In the comparison of the two.