Prepare for the next quasar

[JohnThomas1]

Based on past history we are long overdue for the next utterly dominant force at Heavyweight. We know the drill, inspires fear and quaking into opponents as well the common perception of invincibility. Batton down the hatches, he cannot be too far away.

Discuss........

[JohnThomas1]

Bonus points if you knew what a quasar was without having to look it up on wikipedia.:smoke

I didn't look it up, just took you at your word. That may or may not make me a sukker :rofl

You basically told me the good old Quassy was brighter than the brightest star, so what else was i to use

:good

[My dinner with Conteh]

Soon enough there could a monster who's a mix of Lewis and Tyson (the 9.00pm version) and Ali. He'll be about 6'4/6'5 and weigh 230/40 pouinds of pure muscle and strength, lightening speed, great jab, etc, he'll have 60 fights and win 'em all by KO...and still some mugs will still go around saying "Jack Dempsey could beat him".

[JohnThomas1]

Soon enough there could a monster who's a mix of Lewis and Tyson (the 9.00pm version) and Ali. He'll be about 6'4/6'5 and weigh 230/40 pouinds of pure muscle and strength, lightening speed, great jab, etc, he'll have 60 fights and win 'em all by KO...and still some mugs will still go around saying "Jack Dempsey could beat him".

None of that would surprise me. I certainly know one that will find a perfect foil for him pre 50's :lol:

[My dinner with Conteh]

Wrong. He'd be 7'0, 300 pounds, Technically flawless, be 200 and 0 with 170 title defenses, all by KO with a chin made from depleted uranium. He would lose every single fantasy matchup on ESB classic because he doesn't have heart and never struggled to win.


But he wouldn't be 5 ft 10 that's for certain. :good

[biglads]

Wrong. He'd be 7'0, 300 pounds, Technically flawless, be 200 and 0 with 170 title defenses, all by KO with a chin made from depleted uranium. He would lose every single fantasy matchup on ESB classic because he doesn't have heart and never struggled to win.

Jack Bodell stops him in 3

[dmt]

we will see when this amazing combo of Lewis and Ali appears

Face the facts, it's not impossible for another great fighter to come along soon, but atleast in the nation who has produced most great heavyweights, boxing has become less popular.

[dmt]

But he wouldn't be 5 ft 10 that's for certain. :goodso what ur saying is a great 5ft 10 fighter like a prime Tyson for example would not be able to dominate today;s amazing weight class?

[Bill1234]

so what ur saying is a great 5ft 10 fighter like a prime Tyson for example would not be able to dominate today;s amazing weight class?

Who could? The weight class is in the best shape its ever been. Look at these superheavyweights, 260lbs on average.:yikes

[dmt]

Who could? The weight class is in the best shape its ever been. Look at these superheavyweights, 260lbs on average.:yikesexactly, these heavies today are amazing. There is no way that someone like Tyson or Frazier would be able to dominate todat, they'd get crushed by these giant heavyweights

[janitor]

Soon enough there could a monster who's a mix of Lewis and Tyson (the 9.00pm version) and Ali. He'll be about 6'4/6'5 and weigh 230/40 pouinds of pure muscle and strength, lightening speed, great jab, etc, he'll have 60 fights and win 'em all by KO...and still some mugs will still go around saying "Jack Dempsey could beat him".

Even if he is exactly as you describe then Jack Dempsey would still potentialy be able to beat him.

Unless he is armour plated of course.

[JohnThomas1]

so what ur saying is a great 5ft 10 fighter like a prime Tyson for example would not be able to dominate today;s amazing weight class?

He didn't say anything even remotely like this :huh

[JohnThomas1]

Even if he is exactly as you describe then Jack Dempsey would still potentialy be able to beat him.

Unless he is armour plated of course.

You're absolutely correct. The said fighter could have a heart attack VERY early into the bout and drop prone. Otherwise she's another Fireman job.

[McGrain]

What are the specifics you guys think a HW would need to dominate the division for say, 8 years...what are the key components the next quasar needs.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Even if he is exactly as you describe then Jack Dempsey would still potentialy be able to beat him.


Only because in his previous fight Quasar was mauled by Sot Chitalada. :good

[My dinner with Conteh]

You're absolutely correct. The said fighter could have a heart attack VERY early into the bout and drop prone. Otherwise she's another Fireman job.


Jim "The Towering Inferno" Flynn. Hey, that must have been a fix...Dempsey's wife said so. :yep

[janitor]

You're absolutely correct. The said fighter could have a heart attack VERY early into the bout and drop prone. Otherwise she's another Fireman job.

Once a fighter can punch like Dempsey he can potentialy beat any human being that ever has existed or ever will exist provided they are still made of organic tissue such as muscle and bone.

To say otherwise is as silly as to imply that this hypothetical fighter would not be hurt if he were hit by a car.

[Mendoza]

Based on past history we are long overdue for the next utterly dominant force at Heavyweight. We know the drill, inspires fear and quaking into opponents as well the common perception of invincibility. Batton down the hatches, he cannot be too far away.

Discuss........


There will be no such heavyweight. Regardless of what most historians think, the modern heavyweights simply hit too hard for a quasar type to achieve sustained excellence.

At one point Lewis and Klitschko were thought to be quasar types. While each guy lived up to the hype and became the #1 guy in his era, they were far from unbeatable.

[redrooster]

Bonus points if you knew what a quasar was without having to look it up on wikipedia.:smoke

John's too much of a dumbass to realize that quasars are a thing (phenomenon) of the past.

[JohnThomas1]

Jim "The Towering Inferno" Flynn. Hey, that must have been a fix...Dempsey's wife said so. :yep

Simply irrefutable

:lol:

[JohnThomas1]

Once a fighter can punch like Dempsey he can potentialy beat any human being that ever has existed or ever will exist provided they are still made of organic tissue such as muscle and bone.

Well how do you get your "guarantee's" when picking your oldie over the newbie so often? If memory serves me correct you also write off Shavers quite vs the Dempsey's, yet Shavers hits harder. Surely he has some sort of chance.

[JohnThomas1]

To say otherwise is as silly as to imply that this hypothetical fighter would not be hurt if he were hit by a car.

As silly as saying a heavyweeight used to run 19 miles a day or back in the cobweb era they fought 40 rounds at the pace of Hagler - Hearns round 1?

[JohnThomas1]

There will be no such heavyweight. Regardless of what most historians think, the modern heavyweights simply hit too hard for a quasar type to achieve sustained excellence.

At one point Lewis and Klitschko were thought to be quasar types. While each guy lived up to the hype and became the #1 guy in his era, they were far from unbeatable.

So you say it will be totally impossible for a Liston-Foreman-Tyson to come around again? These guys are the earlier models.

[janitor]

As silly as saying a heavyweeight used to run 19 miles a day or back in the cobweb era they fought 40 rounds at the pace of Hagler - Hearns round 1?

Both statments are verifiably true.

There are numerous reliable sources that describe fighters in the first half of the century running 10, 15, or 20 miles in a day as part of their training regime.

There are filmed bouts that show fighters averaging 85 punches per round over 40+ rounds. You can watch the film and count the punches yourself.

[janitor]

Well how do you get your "guarantee's" when picking your oldie over the newbie so often? If memory serves me correct you also write off Shavers quite vs the Dempsey's, yet Shavers hits harder. Surely he has some sort of chance.

There are no "guarantees" in the heavyweight division.

Yes Shavers would have a chance against Dempsey but it would be slim to minescule. If you are talking about two fighters who are the best of their respective eras then the odds will tend to be a lot closer.

[Boilermaker]

What are the specifics you guys think a HW would need to dominate the division for say, 8 years...what are the key components the next quasar needs.

The biggest thing a heavy will need to dominate this division is a change in attitude on the way up. Like a young Tyson (the last real quaser or whatever it is called), he will need to fight once a month and he will need to take the biggest fights as opposed to the fights which he thinks a fighter's style suits him best. They will need to fight often (no less than every 2 months), until they have cleared the division.

The next thing they will need to do is change their training ideas from most heavies (there are only a few exceptions). ie they will need to train continuously and train to lose weight and increase speed as opposed to putting such a large emphasis on strength training. Most of the modern fighters are so naturally big and strong that they can one punch knockout near anyone without even training. Their weaknesses are lack of fitness/stamina and lack of speed. Tyson is the prime example. he was near unbeatable early in his career, but started to lose his invincibility when he concentrated on improving his strength as opposed to his speed and stamina.

I think the next quaser (that is an awesome word, are you guys sure you didnt just make it up?) will be a little guy like Tyson, about 5'9 to 5'10, but with the same super snap punches and about 200 lbs, in shape all the time. I agree with Mendoza though, there is every chance that he will lose a few fights, like Lennox did, due to modern heavies on a whole being so strong and powerful and capable of the one punch knock out.

[janitor]

What are the specifics you guys think a HW would need to dominate the division for say, 8 years...what are the key components the next quasar needs.

I could see him having any one of a number of styles or physical atributes. He will probably be somwhere between 5' 9'' and 6' 8'' at a guess.

What will have to have above all is the right mindset. It will take sombody who values glory more than money and is totaly obsesive about wining. While the curent conditions are not conducive to producing such a fighter you can still get them.

I think the next quasar will be sombody with the mentality of Evander Holyfield but much more natural talent.

[Mendoza]

So you say it will be totally impossible for a Liston-Foreman-Tyson to come around again? These guys are the earlier models.

While Tyson, Foreman and Liston seemed un-beatable for a brief moment in time as champions, were they really tested? I think each man fought too many made to order smaller and weaker opponents, which is where their Quasar reputation is based.

The intangibles of the three were questionable and rather bully like. When it came time to think, mount a come back, or show heart, Liston, Foreman, and Tyson ended up a losers. Foreman changed his game and showed plenty of smarts, heart, and come back ability in his second career, but that version of Foreman was more of a surprise than a quasar.

A truly dominant heavyweight champion for a long period of time is the rarest thing in sports. We get far more “ Shooting stars “ than Qussar’s.

Back to my point. Simply stated the heavyweights around today might be flawed, but they are all very big, and most of them can hit a ton. And when I say heavyweights around today, I refer to guys like Virchis, Briggs, Rhaman, Maskaev, Peter, Brewster, Sanders…those guys. If they catch their man clean, that could be it for the night. Other decades of boxing just did not have huge fighter like the modern era does with this type of power. With the fire power being at an all time high, it is unlikely that we will see a champion defend his belt many times without getting clipped.

[JohnThomas1]

I could see him having any one of a number of styles or physical atributes. He will probably be somwhere between 5' 9'' and 6' 8'' at a guess.


Full marks for going out on such a limb there lol

[JohnThomas1]

While Tyson, Foreman and Liston seemed un-beatable for a brief moment in time as champions, were they really tested? I think each man fought too many made to order smaller and weaker opponents, which is where their Quasar reputation is based.

The intangibles of the three were questionable and rather bully like. When it came time to think, mount a come back, or show heart, Liston, Foreman, and Tyson ended up a losers. Foreman changed his game and showed plenty of smarts, heart, and come back ability in his second career, but that version of Foreman was more of a surprise than a quasar.

A truly dominant heavyweight champion for a long period of time is the rarest thing in sports. We get far more “ Shooting stars “ than Qussar’s.

Back to my point. Simply stated the heavyweights around today might be flawed, but they are all very big, and most of them can hit a ton. And when I say heavyweights around today, I refer to guys like Virchis, Briggs, Rhaman, Maskaev, Peter, Brewster, Sanders…those guys. If they catch their man clean, that could be it for the night. Other decades of boxing just did not have huge fighter like the modern era does with this type of power. With the fire power being at an all time high, it is unlikely that we will see a champion defend his belt many times without getting clipped.

Some great points, but regardless we've been fooled before and will indeed be fooled again. Just when they seem invincible down they go.

I'm also not sure someone can't come along and dominate this lot. Someone just as big, at least as powerful, but far more hungry and brutal.


Good post, enjoyed that.

[Mendoza]

Some great points, but regardless we've been fooled before and will indeed be fooled again. Just when they seem invincible down they go.

I'm also not sure someone can't come along and dominate this lot. Someone just as big, at least as powerful, but far more hungry and brutal.

Good post, enjoyed that.


Thanks JT. If a new quasar is to emerge, he's going to need to be extra strong in the skills, chin, and stamina department to win the matches he supposed to win, and avoid being clipped by those flawed but dangerous punchers. He’s also going to need to stay hungry and focused outside the ring.


There is no amateur on the way up that fits the above description. However, Wladimir Klitschko is entering his prime. If Klitschko can win a title unification match, I think boxing fans will settle for a bright ray of light on the horizon. Boxing needs a more defined #1 heavyweight. While Kltischko is clearly #1 right now, title unification would add legitimacy to the division.

[dmt]

yeah cause Dempsey loses once by knockout, that makes him a weak fighter yeah? But if other heavweights lose by ko then it's forgivable. The anti Dempsey bias is pretty incredible

[dmt]

Jim "The Towering Inferno" Flynn. Hey, that must have been a fix...Dempsey's wife said so. :yepMonte Cox wrote a pretty convincing article on it. Instead of making silly jokes maybe u could argue against the points Monte made

Regardless being ko'd once is not such a bad sign. Virtually every atg heavy was stopped at one time or another

[Mendoza]

yeah cause Dempsey loses once by knockout, that makes him a weak fighter yeah? But if other heavweights lose by ko then it's forgivable. The anti Dempsey bias is pretty incredible

Right. Dempsey has but one KO loss in 83 known fights.

[dmt]

Right. Dempsey has but one KO loss in 83 known fights.:good

[My dinner with Conteh]

Monte Cox wrote a pretty convincing article on it. Instead of making silly jokes maybe u could argue against the points Monte made

Regardless being ko'd once is not such a bad sign. Virtually every atg heavy was stopped at one time or another


Lead me to it and I'll read it then.

[ChrisPontius]

I think the next quasar will be sombody with the mentality of Evander Holyfield but much more natural talent.

In a sense i couldn't disagree more. Holyfield had plenty of natural talent. What he lacked was natural size and a 'complete' mentality - in the sense that he would not always fight smart. His determination cannot be questioned of course.

[My dinner with Conteh]

In a sense i couldn't disagree more. Holyfield had plenty of natural talent. What he lacked was natural size and a 'complete' mentality - in the sense that he would not always fight smart. His determination cannot be questioned of course.


His argument will be "Yes size was his problem, he should have come in 20 pounds lighter". :hey

[dmt]

Lead me to it and I'll read it then.[Only registered and activated users can see links]

most important part imo in that article :


The promoter for the Dempsey-Flynn bout was, as noted previously, Fred Winsor. Winsor was still managing heavyweights in 1924. On November 17, 1924 Windsor matched his latest heavyweight sensation Tony Fuente with the famous Minnesota Plasterer, Fred Fulton whose first round knockout loss to Dempsey in 1918 had propelled Dempsey into his 1919 title match versus Jess Willard. Fuente and Fulton were matched in Culver City, California.
Fulton was on the last legs of his career and was eager for a payday. In less than a minute Fuente floored Fulton 3 times, and scored a very dubious one round knockout. On hand were 4,000 fans, including former world heavyweight champion Jim Jeffries. The fans rose to their feet screaming and yelling, “FAKE! FAKE!” Boxrec carries the following report: “Fulton "took a dive" 35 seconds after the opening bell, it was later determined. The crowd rioted and threw "storms of cushions into the ring." (AP) It was later alleged Fulton had taken an extra $7,500 to "lie down." His manager admitted to investigating boxing officials that Fulton had warned his friends to refrain from betting on him.”


I cannot say for sure that it was a 100 percent fix but it's unlikely that it was legit

[janitor]

In a sense i couldn't disagree more. Holyfield had plenty of natural talent. What he lacked was natural size and a 'complete' mentality - in the sense that he would not always fight smart. His determination cannot be questioned of course.

What I am talking about is a fighter with the physical tools of say a Tyson or Lewis but with Holyfields determination. I think the latter element would be necesary to compensate for the privelages and distractions that he will be subject to.

He could be big any shape, size or style but will probably be a puncher unless he has Ali like reflexes.

[janitor]

What he lacked was natural size

I think his lack of natural size would have been less of a handicap if he had a monster punch by way of an equalizer.

[mr. magoo]

I don't think that we're going to see a truly dominant force in the division anytime soon. If we were, then such an individual would likely be working his way up the prospect ladder as we speak. Frankly, I can't think of any current hopefuls who fit the bill as the next Mike Tyson. I also live in Chicago, and watched some of the amateur tournament that was here in October, and I didn't see any heavyweights who struck me as future all time greats either. Its plausible that one of the current titlists such as Wlad Klitschko may end up being the unified champion within the next two years, but I don't think that this is the next "quasar," that some here are anticipating.

[ChrisPontius]

I think his lack of natural size would have been less of a handicap if he had a monster punch by way of an equalizer.

Punching power and natural size are well related, though.



What I am talking about is a fighter with the physical tools of say a Tyson or Lewis but with Holyfields determination. I think the latter element would be necesary to compensate for the privelages and distractions that he will be subject to.

He could be big any shape, size or style but will probably be a puncher unless he has Ali like reflexes.


Lewis had Holyfields determination. He was never intimidated, never quit mentally or physically.

But then Lewis lacked the chin a bit.

Every heavyweight lacks in at least one department, there hasn't been an exception to this rule in 100+ years of boxing. The chance that a truely complete fighter will come by in the future is very low. The best we can hope for is a fighter with a lot of tools who makes the best of it, i.e. a Klitschko or perhaps Povetkin.

[janitor]

[quote=ChrisPontius]Punching power and natural size are well related, though.


Sure.

I would make the observation however that those fighters who have regularly given up weight and won have tended to be abnormal punchers pound for pound.

Firepower is the equalizer.


Lewis had Holyfields determination. He was never intimidated, never quit mentally or physically.


Here I agree. What he did not have was Holyfields obsesive training habits. The champions that pass the test of longevity without picking up losses tend to be those who retain their focus on training after they have won the title.

I think this would be an important component of producing a future champion who will dominate the division and not pick up losses.


Every heavyweight lacks in at least one department, there hasn't been an exception to this rule in 100+ years of boxing. The chance that a truely complete fighter will come by in the future is very low. The best we can hope for is a fighter with a lot of tools who makes the best of it, i.e. a Klitschko or perhaps Povetkin.


I think a champion will eventulay come who will place a significant challenge for the GOAT status to Mr Barrows and Mr Ali. Even with the constraints placed by modern contract times and levels of activity.

I just hope that I am around to see it.

[mr. magoo]

[quote]


Sure.

I would make the observation however that those fighters who have regularly given up weight and won have tended to be abnormal punchers pound for pound.

Firepower is the equalizer.



Here I agree. What he did not have was Holyfields obsesive training habits. The champions that pass the test of longevity without picking up losses tend to be those who retain their focus on training after they have won the title.

I think this would be an important component of producing a future champion who will dominate the division and not pick up losses.



I think a champion will eventulay come who will place a significant challenge for the GOAT status to Mr Barrows and Mr Ali. Even with the constraints placed by modern contract times and levels of activity.

I just hope that I am around to see it.

Well unfortunately, I doubt we'll see another Chuck Wepner soon. He possesed the best fundamentals necessary to establish a dominant reign.

[janitor]

[quote=janitor]

Well unfortunately, I doubt we'll see another Chuck Wepner soon. He possesed the best fundamentals necessary to establish a dominant reign.

He can still make a comeback.

[My dinner with Conteh]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

most important part imo in that article :


The promoter for the Dempsey-Flynn bout was, as noted previously, Fred Winsor. Winsor was still managing heavyweights in 1924. On November 17, 1924 Windsor matched his latest heavyweight sensation Tony Fuente with the famous Minnesota Plasterer, Fred Fulton whose first round knockout loss to Dempsey in 1918 had propelled Dempsey into his 1919 title match versus Jess Willard. Fuente and Fulton were matched in Culver City, California.
Fulton was on the last legs of his career and was eager for a payday. In less than a minute Fuente floored Fulton 3 times, and scored a very dubious one round knockout. On hand were 4,000 fans, including former world heavyweight champion Jim Jeffries. The fans rose to their feet screaming and yelling, “FAKE! FAKE!” Boxrec carries the following report: “Fulton "took a dive" 35 seconds after the opening bell, it was later determined. The crowd rioted and threw "storms of cushions into the ring." (AP) It was later alleged Fulton had taken an extra $7,500 to "lie down." His manager admitted to investigating boxing officials that Fulton had warned his friends to refrain from betting on him.”


I cannot say for sure that it was a 100 percent fix but it's unlikely that it was legit


I'll read the full article after my tea. I hope there's a shred more evidence than this.

[JohnThomas1]

yeah cause Dempsey loses once by knockout, that makes him a weak fighter yeah? But if other heavweights lose by ko then it's forgivable. The anti Dempsey bias is pretty incredible

What about the anti Fireman Jim bias. The guy scored a fantastic KO over a great like Dempsey and nobody wants to acknowledge it. Lets pretend it didn't happen! Spare a thought for the poor common Fireman here.

:hey

[JohnThomas1]

Its plausible that one of the current titlists such as Wlad Klitschko may end up being the unified champion within the next two years, but I don't think that this is the next "quasar," that some here are anticipating.

You're Klit's already been hammered out, more than once. Any potential aura of invincibility is gone.

[dmt]

Actually a lot of people overly criticise him for one loss. Yes he lost by ko and yes it may have been legit. But other then that Flynn will be remembered as a sort of one hit wonder who somehow produced a KO of a pre prime Dempsey. No Flynn is not an atg, just a decent contender.

Anyway why is Jack even mentioned in this thread, or maybe why is he mentioned in all threads? Dempsey is dead and this thread is more to do with current heavyweights. The anti-Dempsey bias is so incredible that the haters will take every single opportunity to criticise him whereas this thread has nothing to do with Dempsey.

[JohnThomas1]

Actually a lot of people overly criticise him for one loss. Yes he lost by ko and yes it may have been legit. But other then that Flynn will be remembered as a sort of one hit wonder who somehow produced a KO of a pre prime Dempsey. No Flynn is not an atg, just a decent contender.

Anyway why is Jack even mentioned in this thread, or maybe why is he mentioned in all threads? Dempsey is dead and this thread is more to do with current heavyweights. The anti-Dempsey bias is so incredible that the haters will take every single opportunity to criticise him whereas this thread has nothing to do with Dempsey.


I'll flip this DMT and say to be honest you are just plain over sensitive to Dempsey criticism, percieved, real, or joking. Jack will be mentioned when and where peeps feel like it, not when you allow them. Lighten up dude, it's only a boxing forum.

[ChrisPontius]

You're Klit's already been hammered out, more than once. Any potential aura of invincibility is gone.

That might be a good thing, though. History has shown that an aura of invincibility is that quickest route to self-destruction, i.e. Foreman, Liston, Tyson... whereas the "mortal" fighters like Ali, Holmes and Lewis were on top of the food chain for many years. Klitschko is having the fight unification bout in february in nearly 10 years, so things are looking good.

[JohnThomas1]

That might be a good thing, though. History has shown that an aura of invincibility is that quickest route to self-destruction, i.e. Foreman, Liston, Tyson... whereas the "mortal" fighters like Ali, Holmes and Lewis were on top of the food chain for many years. Klitschko is having the fight unification bout in february in nearly 10 years, so things are looking good.

Agreed for sure, but he will never be the actual phenom i described, tho indeed he might end up with the better overall record or longevity etc.

[dmt]

I was not overly sensitive, nor did i insult anyone. What i simply stated is that the Dempsey bashing is ridicoulus. Why not criticise Lewis, Tyson, Frazier Ali, Marciano ir someone else for once? Or maybe because of one ko loss Dempsey was a poor fighter?

I know it's only a forum and i am not angry, just curious to see why Dempsey gets criticised for one ko loss in his carrier, yet others don
t even get mentioned.

[JohnThomas1]

I was not overly sensitive, nor did i insult anyone. What i simply stated is that the Dempsey bashing is ridicoulus. Why not criticise Lewis, Tyson, Frazier Ali, Marciano ir someone else for once? Or maybe because of one ko loss Dempsey was a poor fighter?

I know it's only a forum and i am not angry, just curious to see why Dempsey gets criticised for one ko loss in his carrier, yet others don
t even get mentioned.

I see all the fighters you named get criticised, and from the threads i visit, far more often than Dempsey. Marciano gets far more grief than Dempsey, Lewis gets hammered by the likes of Zakman, Tyson is mostly love him or hate him. Tho i don't visit all the oldern fighter threads i must say i haven't seen this Dempsey bashing you speak of. Surely you don't consider it bashing in this thread. Dinner and i had some VERY lighthearted banter, you posted

yeah cause Dempsey loses once by knockout, that makes him a weak fighter yeah? But if other heavweights lose by ko then it's forgivable. The anti Dempsey bias is pretty incredible

Nobody went anything like as deep as you insinuated. To say you overreacted would be an understatement. It's a storm in a teacup to me.

[mr. magoo]

You're Klit's already been hammered out, more than once. Any potential aura of invincibility is gone.

Like I said, Klitschko nor any of the other current titlists fit the bill as the next domineering force, and nor do I see one coming anytime soon.

[mr. magoo]

I was not overly sensitive, nor did i insult anyone. What i simply stated is that the Dempsey bashing is ridicoulus. Why not criticise Lewis, Tyson, Frazier Ali, Marciano ir someone else for once? Or maybe because of one ko loss Dempsey was a poor fighter?

I know it's only a forum and i am not angry, just curious to see why Dempsey gets criticised for one ko loss in his carrier, yet others don
t even get mentioned.

With all due respect, JT is right about your being a bit touchy on the Dempsey subject. The key here is to relax and enjoy the forum for what its meant to be. Everyone has a soft spot though. Take John for example. His vice is alpha champs of the 80's. I think the reason he chose the screen name John Thomas, was to emulate the great Pinklon Thomas, or so I believe.

( just pulling your chains a bit John ) :lol:

[djm]

The best combination of size, strength, speed and toughness in the USA is likely playing defensive end somewhere. The quasar will probably be flattening quarterbacks before he's flattening prize fighters.

This leaves eastern Europe or Africa to produce him. While Russians dominate the top 10 these days they're far from complete fighters.

Such a fighter may appear in a lower weight class but the time of the amazing hw may have passed.

[JohnThomas1]

Like I said, Klitschko nor any of the other current titlists fit the bill as the next domineering force, and nor do I see one coming anytime soon.

Yeah, agreed. Tho Tyson was a good am he was not considered the second coming until later, then quick. It's possible tho maybe unlikely the next might not be THAT far away.

Lets hope so, a Tyson type figure (before the drama's) would be one helluva boost for boxing, just as it was back then.

[JohnThomas1]

With all due respect, JT is right about your being a bit touchy on the Dempsey subject. The key here is to relax and enjoy the forum for what its meant to be. Everyone has a soft spot though. Take John for example. His vice is alpha champs of the 80's. I think the reason he chose the screen name John Thomas, was to emulate the great Pinklon Thomas, or so I believe.

( just pulling your chains a bit John ) :lol:

You'll keep!!!! Hahahaha.

[Pat_Lowe]

Yeah, agreed. Tho Tyson was a good am he was not considered the second coming until later, then quick. It's possible tho maybe unlikely the next might not be THAT far away.

Lets hope so, a Tyson type figure (before the drama's) would be one helluva boost for boxing, just as it was back then.
What do you think of Povetkin? At the moment I reckon he looks the goods. Only problem is that he is being moved to quick, he is stepping it up nicely but talks of a title shot against Klitschko next year are too soon. I don't think he's quite ready for him yet. He's also got the amatuer pedigree and an appealing style, maybe he is the 2nd coming.

[JohnThomas1]

What do you think of Povetkin? At the moment I reckon he looks the goods. Only problem is that he is being moved to quick, he is stepping it up nicely but talks of a title shot against Klitschko next year are too soon. I don't think he's quite ready for him yet. He's also got the amatuer pedigree and an appealing style, maybe he is the 2nd coming.

I have to admit i am not very familiar with him. Hear him mentioned often tho. I will see if i can get some fights of his and follow his progress with much interest. Appreciate the heads up to be honest

:good

[Mendoza]

I have to admit i am not very familiar with him. Hear him mentioned often tho. I will see if i can get some fights of his and follow his progress with much interest. Appreciate the heads up to be honest

:good

JT,

Here is my write up on Povetkin. He has a chance to be a " quasar "

" The book on Alexander Povetkin "

After seeing all but one of Povetkin’s professional
fights, I am ready to go into detail on his ring
ability.

Boxing Ability: In a day and age of gigantic
heavyweights, fans tend to under rate skills. Povetkin
has great boxing skills. Povetkin has a swarming type
of style with good balance and the ability to throw
all types of punches. Povetkin has a good left and
right hook, a solid cross, top body shots, and an
hooking type of uppercut. His left hook is his money
punch. Povetkin doesn’t use his jab much on offense or
defense, but most fighters with his style and body
type aren’t great with the jabs. Povetkin can string
together combinations, and is also very effective on
counter punches. Combinations and counter punchers are
rare among heavyweights.

Grade A-

Power: Povetkin isn’t a huge one punch KO artist, but
he can definitively hit. With Povetkin, it is his
speed, timing and precision of his blows that seem to
make him dangerous more so than brute strength / raw
punching power. To date Povetkin has a high knock out
ratio. As he moves up in class, I view him as more of
an attrition type of knock out puncher. As a pure
puncher, Povetkin rates as good, but not great. I'd
say he hits a tad harder than Holyfield or Holmes, but
not as hard as Lewis or Klitschko. Povetkin carries his
power into the late rounds.

Grade B

Reach: Povetkin’s true reach has not been given, but
I’d guess it’s in the 74"-76” range, which is a tad
short by modern standards. The key here is Povetkin
has lots of experience in the amateur game. He
understands where he needs to be, is a good judge of
distance, and how to work his way into positon with
footwork and defense.

Grade B-

Height and weight: Povetkin’s listed height is 6’2”,
and this was confirmed by the Olympics measurements.
His fighting weight is anywhere between 217-227,
though his best weight seems to be around the 220-222
mark.

Grade B

Stamina: Povetkin's 12 round stamina is good.
Povetkin proved this in the Donald and Byrd
fights. The only question on Povetkin's stamina
is if he can outlast a world class opponent’s
in a 12 round fight where conditioning matters in the
championship rounds. Povetkin's work rate in
impressive. As an amateur, Povetkin’s stamina was
always greater than his opponents.

Grade B+

Durability: Povetkin chin was A+ as an amateur. As a
Pro Povetkin has been hit by solid shots, with the
best one being a flush power hook by Friday Ahunanya.
No punch to date has bothered, stunned, or rocked
Povetkin. He hasn’t been forced to clinch or change
tactics. No one likes to take punches, but fighters
react differently mentally and physically when being
hit. Due to his style and reaction to the punches he
has taken, my best guess is Povetkin has a very good
to excellent chin.

Grade A- ( Best guess )

Hand and foot speed: Povetkin is the owner of quick
hands. His hand speed is impressive. Povetkin also
owns quick feet and can move laterally or dart in and
out better than most heavyweights. Speed is a hard
attribute to improve. Povetkin is natural gifted in
this department, more so with his hands than his feet.

Grade B+

Defense: Heavyweight in general doesn’t have top
defenses, but Povetkin isn’t your typical heavyweight.
Povetkin seems to have a good fundamental defense
which is complimented by quick reflexes. Povetkin
fights under a high guard above his chin with a slight
crouch. He can dart in out out with his feet. His
stature and body type will make it difficult to land
body shots on him. Povetkin has shown good ability to
duck punches, and can quickly switch gears from
offense to defense with balance and speed. Povetkin
hasn’t had to execute a defensive maneuver such
clinching when hurt, covering up on the ropes, or
escaping out of corners yet, but based on his kick
boxing and amateur experience, he should be at least
adequate if / when he needs to execute such a
maneuver. If Povetkin has a defensive weakness, it
seems like fighters with a longer reached and skilled
jab can land on him from a distance.

Grade B

Heart / Intangibles: Hearts are best graded when they
are tested. I get the hunch that Povetkin will prove
to be special in this department. As an amateur,
Povetkin won 13 of his last 14 tournaments, and the
one he did not win he came in second due to a
questionable decision. Povetkin is a winner. He seems to
have the perfect psyche and mental strength for
boxing. If he needs to change tactics or pay the price
to win, he will do it. I do believe Povetkin will
prove to be special here and might be mentioned with
others like Marciano, Frazier, or Holyfield after his
career is over as a fighter who overachieved, hung
tough, and never gave up when the going got tough.

Grade A+


Ring Generalship: Povetkin is a smart fighter who
understands his opponent’s strengths and weaknesses.
He knows the range he needs to get into to give him
the best possible advantage. Povetkin also knows where
and when to throw the right type of punch. I don’t
think he will outsmarted or fail to adapt in the ring.


Grade A

Conclusion: Povetkin is the best heavyweight prospect
since Wladimir Klitschko. Although Povetkin doesn’t
posses Klitschko’s physical advantages, I think he is
mentally, and physical tougher and will not be as
prone to upset as Klitschko is. Povetkin should become
one of the world champions, and has enough ability to
rate as an all time top 25 heavyweight before he
retires. In fact I think he would defeat 2-3 of the
champions right now, and should win a world title
before his 18th pro fight! Whether Povetkin
accomplishes enough to rate as an all time heavyweight
remains to be seen, however I do believe he has the
ability and background to get there.

[JohnThomas1]

Mate i can't thank you enough! Owe you bigtime friend

:good

[McGrain]

Great post Mendoza.

[JohnThomas1]

Great post Mendoza.

Absolutely. I need not wonder bugger all now.

[JohnThomas1]

I must say the only thing that worries me is the B for power. Quasars have A to A+. Maybe he has the chance to be a Larry Holmes like dominator of the division. Not a Quasar, but one heckuva ruler none the less.