James Toney vs Virgil Hill

[Cobra33]

Toney has more skills but Hill has better movement and a great leftjab.
I think Hill would suprise Toney and win a 12 split decision.

[unitas]

if this happens at 175, the pick has to hill. toney did nothing at the weight.

hill by UD.

[Sardu]

I like Toney here although Hill could give him some trouble with his quickness.

Toney UD

[Vantage_West]

bad match up for toney. hill even though beatable i dont think would allow himself to be counterpunched or bullied by toney in any circumstance.

hill is a good technician and sound defencivly on the inside. i think the weakness of toney's workrate and counterpunching style would just be him following hill round the ring.

[Vantage_West]

if this happens at 175, the pick has to hill. toney did nothing at the weight.

hill by UD.
true but it's not the weight that big a problem. if this was at cruiser i doubt people would have a different answer

[bodhi]

bad match up for toney. hill even though beatable i dont think would allow himself to be counterpunched or bullied by toney in any circumstance.

hill is a good technician and sound defencivly on the inside. i think the weakness of toney's workrate and counterpunching style would just be him following hill round the ring.

Add to that Hill´s very good footwork and speed of hand of foot and I can´t see how you can pick Toney. Toney would beat DM who beat Hill on the other hand. It´s a style thing.

[zadfrak]

I think DM beats him also. Great jab and those accurate hands of his. Concrete chin means it's a distance bout also. Actually, another guy I would like to see would've been Toney and prime Leonzer Barber.

[bodhi]

I think DM beats him also. Great jab and those accurate hands of his. Concrete chin means it's a distance bout also. Actually, another guy I would like to see would've been Toney and prime Leonzer Barber.

Yeah but DM as an agressive fighter and can be counterpunched. It won´t be Toney-Jirov but it would look a bit similar.

[zadfrak]

Well then we disagree. Dariusz is far more accurate than Jirov and Jirov was a guy that leans into punches and stands right in front of everyone. DM moved is legs in there early in his career and had the best jab in the business that was not telgraphed and was real stiff.

I think Toney looks far better against the stationary guys that are easy to hit. Guys that don't play that game--even a Tiberi, cause stylistic problems for James. Plus, toney didn't do all that much in the lh division and he'd be facing a guy that had one helluva winning streak and quite a number of scalps for title defenses before finally losing. Consisitency is what DM had in spades and it's something Toney didn't have at 160 /168/175/ or any weight.

[bodhi]

Well then we disagree. Dariusz is far more accurate than Jirov and Jirov was a guy that leans into punches and stands right in front of everyone. DM moved is legs in there early in his career and had the best jab in the business that was not telgraphed and was real stiff.

I think Toney looks far better against the stationary guys that are easy to hit. Guys that don't play that game--even a Tiberi, cause stylistic problems for James. Plus, toney didn't do all that much in the lh division and he'd be facing a guy that had one helluva winning streak and quite a number of scalps for title defenses before finally losing. Consisitency is what DM had in spades and it's something Toney didn't have at 160 /168/175/ or any weight.

DM was a better fighter than Jirov. No question. And in my oppinion he had the best jab of the 90s. :good
But his aggressive style just plays into the hands of a counter-puncher of Toney´s style. I think guys who came right at Toney are just style-wise made for him.
There is no question DM was a much better lhw than Toney either but this won´t win him the fight.

[THE BLADE 2]

Well then we disagree. Dariusz is far more accurate than Jirov and Jirov was a guy that leans into punches and stands right in front of everyone. DM moved is legs in there early in his career and had the best jab in the business that was not telgraphed and was real stiff.

I think Toney looks far better against the stationary guys that are easy to hit. Guys that don't play that game--even a Tiberi, cause stylistic problems for James. Plus, toney didn't do all that much in the lh division and he'd be facing a guy that had one helluva winning streak and quite a number of scalps for title defenses before finally losing. Consisitency is what DM had in spades and it's something Toney didn't have at 160 /168/175/ or any weight.

I am sorry but this is nonsense. DM's style is taylor made for James Toney who will stand in the pocket and pick him apart. Toney by late KO. Power is the last thing to bother James with and dariusz Jab would be timed by the counter right of Toney.In fact, Toney loves the pressure style of DM and would land consistenly because DM has a suspect defense.

Prime Virgil Hill is a different story. He might have the style to suqeeze out a close decision. It would be a close fight with toney landing the harder blows but Hill landing more shots especially jabs.Depends what the judges are looking for.

[bodhi]

I am sorry but this is nonsense. DM's style is taylor made for James Toney who will stand in the pocket and pick him apart. Toney by late KO. Power is the last thing to bother James with and darius Jab would be timed by the counter right of Toney.

Prime Virgil Hill is a different story. He might have the style to suqeeze out a close decision. It would be a close fight with toney landing the harder blows but Hill landinhg more shots epecially jabs.

While I agree with the results, I disagree with Toney KOing DM. DM´s chin was nearly as good as Toney´s at lhw if not better. :bart

[frankenfrank]

true but it's not the weight that big a problem. if this was at cruiser i doubt people would have a different answer
at cruiser i have a different answer. toney by stoppage.
he knocked down jirov he'd destroy hill.
at 175 toney was not very good so maybe hill can beat him at this weight.
but not at 190 , 185 or above.

[THE BLADE 2]

While I agree with the results, I disagree with Toney KOing DM. DM´s chin was nearly as good as Toney´s at lhw if not better. :bart

IMO, DM'chin was decent but not certainly not as good as Toney's. DM was stunned in a lot of fights (e.g. Griffin, Rocchigani, Hall) and was KOD against Tiozzo. Toney was never KOD despite taking on big punchers at heavyweight and fighting 80+ fights.

[bodhi]

IMO, DM'chin was decent but not certainly not as good as Toney's. DM was stunned in a lot of fights (e.g. Griffin, Rocchigani, Hall) and was KOD against Tiozzo. Toney was never KOD despite taking on big punchers at heavyweight and fighting 80+ fights.

Tiozzo??? You relly think that should be the fight to judge DM in his prime? :lol:

Griffin, Rocchiginai (and that was a fake job to shaft Rocchigiani) and Hall, are all harder hitters than Toney at lhw.

[THE BLADE 2]

Tiozzo??? You relly think that should be the fight to judge DM in his prime? :lol:

Griffin, Rocchiginai (and that was a fake job to shaft Rocchigiani) and Hall, are all harder hitters than Toney at lhw.

It does not matter if DM was in his prime against Tiozzo or not. The chin stays the same whether you are in your prime or not.

Peter, Rahman, Ruiz are harder hitters than Griffin, Rochigani and Hall.

[bodhi]

It does not matter if DM was in his prime against Tiozzo or not. The chin stays the same whether you are in your prime or not.

Past his prime? It was a comebackfight when he was more shot than Jones is now. And yeah chin can be influenced by that.


Peter, Rahman, Ruiz are harder hitters than Griffin, Rochigani and Hall.

True but neither fought at lhw and that´s what we talking about right? And I didn´t question the chin of Toney, it´s excellent, no point in argueing. :good

[zadfrak]

I sure didn't like the way Toney looked in there against 5'5" Griffin. He sure didn't handle that jab all that well. I think a top guy with a top trainer can prepare for him just like Futch did w/ Griffin.

[lefthook31]

I sure didn't like the way Toney looked in there against 5'5" Griffin. He sure didn't handle that jab all that well. I think a top guy with a top trainer can prepare for him just like Futch did w/ Griffin.
Griffin just had a bad style for any counterpuncher, he was sneaky and awkward. Hill is more of a stylistic matchup that Toney would do well in if he was in top form. I would say James wins a close decision.
Griffin was a short guy for a LH

[anarci]

Toney was much better at Mw,Sm and Cruiser than as a Light Heavy and at those weights i think he was a better fighter than Hill. But at LH i think ill take Hill by a close decison 115-113.

[THE BLADE 2]

Griffin just had a bad style for any counterpuncher, he was sneaky and awkward. Hill is more of a stylistic matchup that Toney would do well in if he was in top form. I would say James wins a close decision.
Griffin was a short guy for a LH

On top of that, I thought Toney beat Griffin both times, HBO also scored the fight for Toney twice. According to the Ring magazine, The second fight was the worst decision that year.